I felt so depressed after finishing Umineko... His story, characters and music set up the bar so high that I cannot fully enjoy other tales the same as I did before
I got that exact feeling. After spending such a long amount of time and getting invested into every character and faucet of the world, there was just that void that wouldn't go away. Not to mention that the vagueness of the ending keeps you theorizing and thinking about it even after it's conclusion. I started the manga for Episode 7 and 8 just for more Umineko, but I'm sure once that's gone, that void will return.
Honestly I loved it so much, imo the vagueness of it all *is* its charm, so I don't really understand how people couldn't find the last few chapters anything but enjoyable. I'm glad you liked it as much I did!
I agree with that completely. I think the vague ending is almost genius as it works its way into Umineko's many themes, and to the very end, allows its readers to create their own interpretation of the truth. It's an ending that wouldn't work for any story other than Umineko which is why I love it!
I finished Umineko in the early summer of last year. Still haven’t gotten over it. I can cry and laugh in command just by summoning certain scenes in my mind. It truly is magic. PS: I considered attempting to collect the manga myself but I’m broke after acquiring all but three volumes of the Higurashi manga over the last year. I’ve determined that it would be cheaper to get a tablet on a monthly payment and read the digital version, as much as it chaps my physical book loving ass.
It has such staying power that a track from it will randomly pop into my mind and it will carry me through the story once again. its been a month now, and the emotions I felt when first reading it are still as strong. It sucks that they are out of print since the prices on a few volumes are 2-4x as expensive. I luckily found Episode 7-8 volumes for decent prices. I'm someone that needs a physical copy to fully enjoy manga or novels. Something about reading black on white makes it harder for me to become invested. So far, I've read the first volume of Episode 7 and it's a surprisingly amazing adaptation!
I read it digitally, and it has a lot of power there, too. Speaking as someone who also loves the physicality of books, there's something to Umineko that transcends it. No matter how you read it, it will be more than what you expect.
I didn't really expect Umineko to be this abstract and amazing when I first gave it a read nearly a year ago. I'm glad this was my first ever visual novel. Wonderful review there mate!
Glad that Mahoyo getting English localization, hope Nasu and Shacho will continue this trend from first Nasuverse work onwards Reading it felt similar to Umineko, it is probably best work of Mushroom, the masterpiece of his youth (which is the maybe start of exploration of his life and selfvalue and following by natural progression of doubt, preservation and hope in later works) Cant wait you read it Nei (btw its my Arowmorth temp acc yeah) Its hard to choose between Mahoyo, KnK and DDD, but Mahoyo is just... something else, perfectly in balance, beautiful
@@ShizukiShirano Hey, it's been a while! They are my top 2 writers at the moment, they never fail to bring forth a slew of emotion within their narratives. I'm excited knowing that the English release will be alongside the JP. It's one story I know next to nothing about (besides some characters names) hyped to finally read it! The translation for TsukiRE seems like it would be finishing around late this year too; a great time to be a Type-Moon fan!
@@NeNeiSan TsukiRe and Mahoyo hype Also the first Arc of Mahoyo is 1-8 ch so if you would want to make video to promote English localization you can read it to that for context if you would wanna rn Maybe we get TsukiRe English (and i again will be torn between my favs) as well later (after Red Garden..) Type-Moon 20th Anniversary soon too... I wonder if they move celebration a bit, if TM plans it at all
@@ShizukiShirano That's a great idea, I think I'll do that! Considering that this is TM's first (offical) visual novel translation, it could set a precedent with how they market future releases. I hope if they do anything for their 20th anniversary we get to see how far along Red Garden or Fate/Extra Record has come along.
I can see how. There is so many ways to interpret and looks at the story that allows you to keep coming back to it. I hope the next WTC entry, Ciconia can at least get close to the lengths Umineko has!
I love the way you put your thoughts on it into words. It's truly impossible to describe the profound impact Umineko can have on someone, specially if you are a bit more jaded/'logical' as a person. I finished Umineko 3 years ago now, an even bought the physical manga 7 and 8, but I don't think I'll ever read them, 7 and 8 were such perfect episodes, and in my opinion having an exact answer is completely against the message of a lot of what Umineko is trying to say. It's a thesis on truth. Thanks for the video!
Of course, Thank you watching! It was truly difficult to describe the way I felt, I had to rewrite many portion of the script to get close to my appreciation for it. I had that exact same thought towards the manga, but decided to go ahead, and came out really glad I did. There is a lot more in it than just answers. Mostly being new character interactions that allow them to develop slightly and give them a better conclusion to their character arc. I understand not reading them entirely, however, I will say, the Confession of the Golden Witch chapters in Episode 8, are phenomenal that further elevates Beatrice's character. It's completely isolated from the rest of Episode 8, and though it does answer things surrounding her, it's not so much to dispel Umineko's message, and, in a way, enhances it. It is one of my personal favorite moments in the entire series.
I finished Umineko a month ago and I haven't stopped thinking about it since. It really is a masterpiece. This is the best Umineko video ive watched thank you 😊
I've heard about people quitting umineko half way through cause they said it was too long but for me personally, I was invested. It was never boring to me and I would always want to know what happened next and how the murders occured. If you're a newcomer and you're not sure if you have the time to read the vn, I would easily recommend the manga.
I was in the same boat as you. I heard the beginning was quite slow, but never felt it. The character interactions were enjoyable, and the subtle hints of the impending unnerving atmosphere grabbed my attention. I've only started reading Episode's 7 manga and it is an unbelievably creative adaptation so far!
I'm having this problem right now, with a friend who is about to give up on it because 'Beatrice is just an evil witch' and 'the writing is so repetitive, I can't really get into it' blah blah. I don't really know what to do. As Beatrice might have said, some people just have way too much anti-magic toxin for their own good.
Been looking forward to this video and your thoughts. Since I had also finished Umineko not to long ago, I can definitely agree that it is a masterpiece. From it's real life connections and concepts of magic, it's nice to see someone appreciate it as much as I did. well yeah loved the vid
The story intertwines so many interesting topics and themes, that at the moment, it's unmatched for me. It allows for countless discussions which adds to it's staying power outside the main narrative. Glad you enjoyed the video!
"while it would be nice to have definite answers, I feel that it would take away the message I got from the original ending." That. That is precisely why I kept myself away from the manga. Specially considering how it is emphasized that you should get the answers by yourself and also the sections where the novel goes out of its way to throw dirty at people that just want to get the answers.
That aspect is one thing I haven't seen in a story which adds on to my appreciation for it. I'm almost done with Episode 8's manga and there have definitely been some instances where I wish had been left blank, but at the same time adds a lot more depth to a few characters, especially Beatrice.
for the past 5 months ive been fearing playing Umineko, as I just only finished Higurashi's Visual Novel in may and started Higanbana straight afterwards instead cause I was scared what Umineko might do to me considering the impact higurashi had on me and I wanted to soak all of my thoughts in so I planned on playing his other work like as I mention Higanbana which I finished and Rose Guns Days which im now reading but as time goes on It feels harder and harder not to read it ive been spoiled on somethings already from twitter and its made me so mad to the point of uninstalling it on my phone until I finish it as to not further spoil me on it cause I feel the best way to experience it is blindly, ive been finishing all the higurashi related stuff like its console arcs and anime so I can feel like I truly experienced all the When they cry series in full, im so excited to read it in the coming months but just like you idk if I have the strength in me to finish it like when I finished Tsumihoroboshi I left the game for a month before finishing both Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi in one week it was one of the most entrancing experiences I had with any novel or game and hearing people say Umineko is Ryukishi's Magnum Opus scares me because what if this is the best thing ive ever read in my life, what if I never experience something like it again, how would I react, but as of recent ive begun to detest that way of thinking it reminded me that ive been through this once a few years when I just got into anime. My first anime was AOT, I wasn't Privy to any sort of literature I hated books, found them boring and a drag because of school their way of educating made me despise literature I was extremely close minded but I gave anime a try when one of my friends kept bugging me, the most ive see of any shows where cartoons as a kid and breaking bad so I went into it with a negative mindset thinking I was gonna hate it, that anime was weird and lame but I loved AOT its thrilling action and amazing worldbuilding with fun and likable characters kept me hooked I wanted to see all of it, it was one of the most fun I had watching a show with friends every night after school we would get in call and watch around 3 episodes a day and we caught up to the end of season 4 part 2 when it was ending in a month and after that I had a thought is this the best written thing ever and will nothing surpass it for me? obviously not, I love aot and while I hold it dear to me for introducing me into anime I don't think its close to being the greatest thing ive seen now. I grew I watched more shows and instead of comparing it to aot, I saw them as there own thing and learned to enjoy media as that something I can experience, learn, being inspired, something that brings me joy to know ive seen it, I didn't have that feeling when I read Higurashi cause I learned from my past and also cause the fact that there was also Umineko but when I finished it, it became my favorite piece of literature ever something that changed my perception and view on a lot of topics for the good of me im not as pessimistic anymore and I love reading now. Although I do have problems in my own life that still scare me to this day that dawn over me I can feel safe knowing that as long as I put the effort in I can get through it. But for some reason that same negative way of thinking was looming over me scared of reading it but as my days are almost finished with both Higurashi's extra arcs and anime and ryukishi's other works I feel sort of melancholic, I want to see how this story changes me, I want to know what I can gain from it even if theres a slight chance that I have negative opinions on it cause I love sharing my thoughts on things. the thoughts still havent left but slowly but surely I feel the weight off my mind less and less cause surely I will read it soon, and when I do just know in half a year or so I will be commenting once again on your other video of Umineko :)
Honestly, how you felt about Higurashi is exactly as I felt after finishing Umineko. Nobody wants something they spend months reading, especially one that touches your heart as much as Higurashi, coming to an end. But that feeling as it cements itself in your heart, noticing the small changes that come from reading it, really causes you to appreciate it even more. That's one of the great things about stories, even if one may not has touched as deep, or swirled as strong emotions, there is always going to be something there you can connect with and make you think differently. Fiction has that power, though it is difficult to say goodbye to such beloved stories, there may be something just as heartfelt around the corner. I do think you will find enjoyment in Umineko, though they are vastly different in how the mystery and characters are explored, there are plenty of similar writing quirks and themes that should be familiar. It's a masterclass of writing in my eyes and love to hear more people getting interested in it. Definitely take your time though; you want to be in the right state of mind before embarking on this very long journey! I still have a few other Ryukishi works I want to get to, Rose Gun Days looks very interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I love hearing them and your passion shows!
2:15 Bond between Author and Reader. 2:47 What does The Author want to say? 3:22 Gaining Confidence. 3:39 Wanting More. 4:15 Overwhelming Emotion. 5:02 The Soundtrack is great. 5:41 Favorite Chapter? - They each have an impact + Consistent, entertaining, gameplay experience 6:44 Thought Provoking Game. 7:08 A Game beyond Description. 7:30 Thankful NeNeiSan. "A Brilliant Masterpiece."
I have just finished Umineko yesterday with my Discord bros after months and I am hyped to sit through decades of reasoning. Truly an unique experience of Story Telling Umineko is.
Still reading Higurashi. Might try Umineko next (I already have the 1st part) If you're interested, I'd like to recommend reading Muv luv next. An absolutely amazing VN! It has 3 parts. ML Extra, ML Unlimited and ML Alternative. Having just completed the 2nd part, Unlimited, I'm really begining to see why the 3rd entry, Muv Luv Alternative is the highest rated VN of all time! (...at least on vndb) Definately a strong recommendation! Just stay FAR away from that terrible ML Alternative anime if you don't want to be spoiled.
If you like Higurashi then Umineko there is a lot of parallels between the two that, by reading both enhances both works. Muv Luv is near the top of my list. I've seen a lot of love towards it, so I'm excited to see why it is beloved! I'm going to be reading Ciconia No Naku Koro Ni next, so that might be what I check out next! Thank you for the recommendation!
people say they don't want to read the manga cause it shows the one truth and opens the cat box but the reality is vn did that too, it just wasn't shown but said. it's not like the manga is a completely different story. it just makes some things more clear but you can still get that from vn, manga just developes it more (shkanontrice gender identity, magic ending, breaking the witch's illusion by will etc). all of this is hinted in vn and the manga shows it to you visually and in more ditails. i love how much depth confession of the golden witch adds to beatrice's character and how it shows desperation in sayo's heart, it's the saddest thing i ever read
I very much agree. After reading the Manga, I'm glad to say that my worries were unfounded. The art was beautiful and seeing how characters like Rosa, Ange, and especially Beatrice were further developed put the story on another level! Confession and the follow chapter Cage of Oblivions had me tears, haha! What a beautiful story.
In other hand, I've heard many good things about "The House in Fata Morgana" and "Raging Loop" from the same people that recommended me Umineko. So I'm pretty sure they are also great!
I've heard a lot of good about those titles as well, which gets me interested in reading them. Once I get that itch for a vibe similar to Umineko I'll check them out!
As much as I loved Umineko, I still wish the ending depicted a fragment where everyone came home, which was the expectation set in ch.1-4 Although there is a general happy end for everyone, minor unresolved plot points like the adults goals to save their companies and employees and Kraus’s debt were never really resolved. And ofc that initial expectation the game set of Battler returning home to a young Ange. Which all in all felt like Umineko got a matsuribayashi end vs a miotsukushi end, still a great happy end, but not one which met all the expectations the story set. Especially since the trick ending was eh… I think the choices should have been between a battler end and ange end, since it felt like Ange stole a bit too much of the main character role for the ending.
It really would have been nice to see a fragment like that, just knowing a possiblity like that is out there. I do see where you're coming from, but I felt Umineko set itself up to have a very bittersweet end from Chapter 4's finale. Most of the story is entirely left open for interpretation which can set up many types of expectations, many of which will be betrayed. For me, the ending is a beautiful message of accepting and moving on from tragedy, that not everything will end like an ideal story. Like how Tohya learned to move on from Beatrice's, his and Ikuko's tales, his own writing was left for Ange to do the same as him. I would of loved to see more of the relationship between Ange and Tohya during the epilogue, though I was really satisfied with what was done. It's a pretty decisive ending, many people love, many hate, and there are those in the middle. Though I find it to be one of my favorite endings of all of fiction, I can see how it can be unsatisfying.
@@NeNeiSan Yep, but I feel like the choice between Fantasy and Trick was the only real missed opportunity. Since it introduces different endings to Umineko... And while I loved the Fantasy end, which was an emotional and conclusive ride. The trick ending felt unnecessary and more like a simple 'bad/different end' to appease readers against the meta aspects of Umineko. Pondering the two endings of Umineko always leads to me to compare with SubaHibi, though you mentioned you haven't gotten to it yet in your VNs to read in 2023 video so I definitely don't want to go any further. SubaHibi and Umineko are my 2 favorites, so whenever you get around to reading it, I'd love to continue this discussion with you!
I agree, there was more that could have been done there, espcially if you read it after the magic ending, it feels... kind of bland. I do like how it was handled in the manga though. It fit within the story without being just another bad end. I'm really excited for SubaHibi! I have heard many small things about it which have been increasing my anticipation for it. Plan to read it sometime in the summer. Same here, I'm interested in what you have to say!
I feel like Umineko unironically ruined all other stories for me. Never again will I read something so incredibly creative and impactful. It touched me the way no other piece of fiction has. It's not a perfect story by any means but I think its strengths far surpass its shortcomings. Ryukishi wrote something truly special that only us hardcore fans will ever understand.
For months, that's largely how I felt after Umineko's ending. Wondering if I'll ever come across anything as emotionally moving and thought provoking as it. FMD: Muramasa was one of the first VNs I read after Umineko, and while I very, very much appreciate it as a work of art, with the personal chords Umineko struck, it ultimately fell flat in comparison. Even today, Umineko takes up a big part of my heart, although, there have been many stories I have read that impacted me just as much. They all exist simultaneously at the top. Stories like that are out there! With enough looking you'll find them, but nothing can replace Umineko's creative style and path to your heart. That's a sign of a truly masterful story!
I keep hearing amazing things about Umineko and I really want to experience it. Back in the day, I did watch the anime but not all of it, I think I've watched around 8 episodes. Now that I want to go deeper in this story I really want to know: do you guys think I should go for the Visual Novel or the Anime?
That's great! In terms of the anime, I have not watched it myself, but I have heard it is underwhelming with how it skips important clues for the mystery and mischaracterizes a majority of the characters. Also, the anime only adapts half of the story. I would personally advocate for the VN, as it does go deep into the narratives themes and fully fleshes out pretty much all of its characters. The soundtrack and voice acting are on another level as well, making the story much more immersive. If you get the VN I recommend downloading the 07th mod to get said voice acting and updated graphics! 07th-mod.com/home/ I hope you give it a chance and enjoy it as much as I did!
Definitely the visual novel. The Anime only covers the question arcs but leaves many parts out and is overall very rushed and focuses more on the gory aspect and less on the actual cases and character developments.
Your video intrigued me about umineko and I searched at steam and I found 2 "versions", the question arcs and answer arcs. In which order shoud I read?
Question then answer arcs. Before you start I recommend downloading the 07th mod as well. It adds slew of additions: different art style, voice acting, and CGs. I hope you enjoy it! github.com/07th-mod/python-patcher/releases
I would not automatically recommend Umineko to everyone. It requires a certain "compatibility" to be enjoyed. I would never recommend it to people who hate post modernism. Because Umineko is VERY post modern. Not to the point where the fourth wall dissapears completely and the voice actors start to call each other by their real names but it can get pretty bad sometimes. It also bombards you with dozens of hours of junk data wile witholding some absolutely crucial bits of information. Again: It's not something everyone will automatically love.
That's true, the story's presentation is unique that it can throw a lot of people off if they come in expecting a more conventional storyline. Though how it handles it's meta elements are interesting, I agree, it's rough pacing mixed with it's post modernist structure can be off-putting.
@@jimmyboi4019 You can! Here is a link to the 07th mod github.com/07th-mod/python-patcher/releases/tag/v1.1.96 It updates the the PC version with Console art, voice acting, CGs, and text options NVL (where the text flows throughout ), and ADV (text appears in a set text box at the bottom of the screen). It's a great improvement over all! I use windows, so I'm not sure if the process differs at all, but it should be simple to apply if you have the VN on Steam.
"I'm afraid to read the manga... because while it may be good to know, I'm afraid it will take away from the message I got from this work." I've always thought that it is a very Umineko thing that Umineko itself comes in two versions, the VN and the manga, with Ryūkishi07 behind both. Which one is the 'right' one? Which one contains the Book of Single Truth? Both, and neither, of course. Which is why I don't think the manga can do the damage you fear (I hope you realized this while reading it). My main take-away message from Umineko is that we cannot establish reality (or truth as meaning 'in accordance with reality') because we have no direct connection to it other than our senses ('there is no Red Truth in this world'). Yes, it is ALWAYS possible that the world is simply a Matrix-like lie, a simulation being fed to our brains by some computer, or, in earlier, more 'classical' presentations, a dream, or a wily demon that is fooling us. There is NO WAY we can objectively decide this isn't the case, limited that we are to the input of our senses. Logics is a great tool. Science is a great tool -- the best we have, the best we'll ever have! BUT... the mechanism of empirical science, since Sir Francis Bacon first codified it in the Novum Organon, or perhaps even those of logic as in Euclid's Elements, is that We Have to Start From Somewhere. Bacon needed external reality; Euclid needed is axioms. You dan't deduce something from nothing; you can't use science without making some sort of ontological presupposition about the world. So how do we decide? Why did Bacon decide on reality? How did Euclid come up with his axioms? (And note -- one can be wrong in this decision: Euclid's fifth postulate was always controversial, and can be denied without too much harm; which led to non-Euclidian geometries.) Umineko was the first work that gave me a convincing answer. We do it ... with love. We decide to 'trust' the world because, well, we like it. It could still all be a lie (Erika: maybe my boyfriend is cheating on me? Maybe his claims of love are lies?); but we can -- it is within our power -- decide to accept it, because... we like it enough. We think it's worth it. And so we, quite literally (I want to stress this: it's LITERALLY, OBJECTIVELY true as far as these words go), create (= accept) the world... out of love. And in this sense, Beatrice's words from Ep. 2 are deeply, deeply true, even for philosophers and scientists. The only element that makes the entire universe is... love. That is how Umineko changed me, and my perspective on life. 🙂
I'm glad my worries were unfounded, as I felt the manga to enhance the message instead of detract from it. Your philosophy of love and accepting the world is insightful, beatiful, and one I can deeply relate to. Umineko weaves the concepts of Truth and Love in a way not many stories touch upon. The two aren't completely seperate, but in fact, influence the other. I feel Umineko has done much the same to me. Changing not only how I look at the world, but people as well. It has deeply affected me as a person, and I'm so glad to see the impact it has made on others as well! Thank you so much for sharing! How you tied the themes to philosphy was very interesting!
@@NeNeiSan Thank you. It is always good to share about Umineko. It feels like more than just a novel... Take the final scene, for instance. We often think only of Battler's reaction to the presence of all his relatives -- all of them, human and magical alike; and of his rising from the wheelchair as his acceptance of his own memories. And that's all true. But I also remember Angel's reaction. The same Ange who was do ready to judge and reject her family that she thought Battler's eighth game only contained lies instead of love. It is so easy to hate the Ushiromiya. They're all flawed, some in horrible ways. Yet Ange learned in the end to love them all. We sonetimes wonder if we're "worthy of love" because, after all, we're all imperfect and have all done things we shouldn't have. But if someone who can be as judgmental as Ange (who didn't even want to accept the truth of Maria's happiness) can also accept all the Ushiromiya (including Rosa!) in her heart... then maybe we're also all worthy of love, maybe we don't need perfection for it, just humanness, just being human... Interesting, isn't it?
@@Asehpe Definitely, it's a story that teaches many lessons, some that can broaden our perspectives in a special way! Beautifully said. In the end, we all are just people, capable of both hurting and helping others. A flaw shouldn't overshadow strength, as everybody has them to varying degrees. Beatrice, and as you said, Ange encapulize this idea so poetically. Umineko has many themes of love all put into one long, but meanigful package! It certainly is intersting, and one I often find thinking about!
I felt so depressed after finishing Umineko... His story, characters and music set up the bar so high that I cannot fully enjoy other tales the same as I did before
I got that exact feeling. After spending such a long amount of time and getting invested into every character and faucet of the world, there was just that void that wouldn't go away. Not to mention that the vagueness of the ending keeps you theorizing and thinking about it even after it's conclusion. I started the manga for Episode 7 and 8 just for more Umineko, but I'm sure once that's gone, that void will return.
@@NeNeiSan Did it return?😁
@@Asehpe It certainly did. I couldn't watch or read anything for a month or two after I finished it, haha!
@@NeNeiSan I understand. But we eventually come back to our world, don't we? 🙂We are as much a creature of our world as Beatrice was of hers.
@@Asehpe That's true, we all return eventually!
Honestly I loved it so much, imo the vagueness of it all *is* its charm, so I don't really understand how people couldn't find the last few chapters anything but enjoyable. I'm glad you liked it as much I did!
I agree with that completely. I think the vague ending is almost genius as it works its way into Umineko's many themes, and to the very end, allows its readers to create their own interpretation of the truth. It's an ending that wouldn't work for any story other than Umineko which is why I love it!
@@NeNeiSan I very much agree!
I finished Umineko in the early summer of last year. Still haven’t gotten over it. I can cry and laugh in command just by summoning certain scenes in my mind. It truly is magic.
PS: I considered attempting to collect the manga myself but I’m broke after acquiring all but three volumes of the Higurashi manga over the last year. I’ve determined that it would be cheaper to get a tablet on a monthly payment and read the digital version, as much as it chaps my physical book loving ass.
It has such staying power that a track from it will randomly pop into my mind and it will carry me through the story once again. its been a month now, and the emotions I felt when first reading it are still as strong.
It sucks that they are out of print since the prices on a few volumes are 2-4x as expensive. I luckily found Episode 7-8 volumes for decent prices. I'm someone that needs a physical copy to fully enjoy manga or novels. Something about reading black on white makes it harder for me to become invested. So far, I've read the first volume of Episode 7 and it's a surprisingly amazing adaptation!
I read it digitally, and it has a lot of power there, too. Speaking as someone who also loves the physicality of books, there's something to Umineko that transcends it. No matter how you read it, it will be more than what you expect.
I didn't really expect Umineko to be this abstract and amazing when I first gave it a read nearly a year ago. I'm glad this was my first ever visual novel. Wonderful review there mate!
Nasu and Ryukishi are legends
Glad that Mahoyo getting English localization, hope Nasu and Shacho will continue this trend from first Nasuverse work onwards
Reading it felt similar to Umineko, it is probably best work of Mushroom, the masterpiece of his youth (which is the maybe start of exploration of his life and selfvalue and following by natural progression of doubt, preservation and hope in later works)
Cant wait you read it Nei (btw its my Arowmorth temp acc yeah)
Its hard to choose between Mahoyo, KnK and DDD, but Mahoyo is just... something else, perfectly in balance, beautiful
@@ShizukiShirano
Hey, it's been a while!
They are my top 2 writers at the moment, they never fail to bring forth a slew of emotion within their narratives.
I'm excited knowing that the English release will be alongside the JP.
It's one story I know next to nothing about (besides some characters names) hyped to finally read it!
The translation for TsukiRE seems like it would be finishing around late this year too; a great time to be a Type-Moon fan!
@@NeNeiSan Indeed
@@NeNeiSan TsukiRe and Mahoyo hype
Also the first Arc of Mahoyo is 1-8 ch so if you would want to make video to promote English localization you can read it to that for context if you would wanna rn
Maybe we get TsukiRe English (and i again will be torn between my favs) as well later (after Red Garden..)
Type-Moon 20th Anniversary soon too... I wonder if they move celebration a bit, if TM plans it at all
@@ShizukiShirano That's a great idea, I think I'll do that! Considering that this is TM's first (offical) visual novel translation, it could set a precedent with how they market future releases.
I hope if they do anything for their 20th anniversary we get to see how far along Red Garden or Fate/Extra Record has come along.
One year after finishing umineko here, at this point I don't think I'll be able to move on
I can see how. There is so many ways to interpret and looks at the story that allows you to keep coming back to it. I hope the next WTC entry, Ciconia can at least get close to the lengths Umineko has!
You will. You just won't move on from it, you will move on with it. Umineko is not going anywhere; but we are. 😉
I love the way you put your thoughts on it into words. It's truly impossible to describe the profound impact Umineko can have on someone, specially if you are a bit more jaded/'logical' as a person. I finished Umineko 3 years ago now, an even bought the physical manga 7 and 8, but I don't think I'll ever read them, 7 and 8 were such perfect episodes, and in my opinion having an exact answer is completely against the message of a lot of what Umineko is trying to say. It's a thesis on truth.
Thanks for the video!
Of course, Thank you watching! It was truly difficult to describe the way I felt, I had to rewrite many portion of the script to get close to my appreciation for it.
I had that exact same thought towards the manga, but decided to go ahead, and came out really glad I did. There is a lot more in it than just answers. Mostly being new character interactions that allow them to develop slightly and give them a better conclusion to their character arc.
I understand not reading them entirely, however, I will say, the Confession of the Golden Witch chapters in Episode 8, are phenomenal that further elevates Beatrice's character.
It's completely isolated from the rest of Episode 8, and though it does answer things surrounding her, it's not so much to dispel Umineko's message, and, in a way, enhances it.
It is one of my personal favorite moments in the entire series.
Umineko is the definition of masterpiece. What an absolutely incredible story
I finished Umineko a month ago and I haven't stopped thinking about it since. It really is a masterpiece.
This is the best Umineko video ive watched thank you 😊
It truly is! It's a bit over a year for me and it still pops in my mind every now and then.
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!
Honestly, you've summed up the thoughts that I've been trying to put into words for the last decade over this title. Thanks so much.
Umineko is one those stories that is so rich in many departments that takes time to process. If I helped in anyway, I couldn't be happier!
I've heard about people quitting umineko half way through cause they said it was too long but for me personally, I was invested. It was never boring to me and I would always want to know what happened next and how the murders occured. If you're a newcomer and you're not sure if you have the time to read the vn, I would easily recommend the manga.
I was in the same boat as you. I heard the beginning was quite slow, but never felt it. The character interactions were enjoyable, and the subtle hints of the impending unnerving atmosphere grabbed my attention. I've only started reading Episode's 7 manga and it is an unbelievably creative adaptation so far!
I'm having this problem right now, with a friend who is about to give up on it because 'Beatrice is just an evil witch' and 'the writing is so repetitive, I can't really get into it' blah blah. I don't really know what to do. As Beatrice might have said, some people just have way too much anti-magic toxin for their own good.
Prolly the only one, but I really love The witch of Theatre going, drama and spectatorship
I do as well, I really want to see more of her in the future!
Been looking forward to this video and your thoughts. Since I had also finished Umineko not to long ago, I can definitely agree that it is a masterpiece. From it's real life connections and concepts of magic, it's nice to see someone appreciate it as much as I did. well yeah loved the vid
The story intertwines so many interesting topics and themes, that at the moment, it's unmatched for me. It allows for countless discussions which adds to it's staying power outside the main narrative.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
"while it would be nice to have definite answers, I feel that it would take away the message I got from the original ending."
That. That is precisely why I kept myself away from the manga. Specially considering how it is emphasized that you should get the answers by yourself and also the sections where the novel goes out of its way to throw dirty at people that just want to get the answers.
That aspect is one thing I haven't seen in a story which adds on to my appreciation for it. I'm almost done with Episode 8's manga and there have definitely been some instances where I wish had been left blank, but at the same time adds a lot more depth to a few characters, especially Beatrice.
for the past 5 months ive been fearing playing Umineko, as I just only finished Higurashi's Visual Novel in may and started Higanbana straight afterwards instead cause I was scared what Umineko might do to me considering the impact higurashi had on me and I wanted to soak all of my thoughts in so I planned on playing his other work like as I mention Higanbana which I finished and Rose Guns Days which im now reading but as time goes on It feels harder and harder not to read it ive been spoiled on somethings already from twitter and its made me so mad to the point of uninstalling it on my phone until I finish it as to not further spoil me on it cause I feel the best way to experience it is blindly, ive been finishing all the higurashi related stuff like its console arcs and anime so I can feel like I truly experienced all the When they cry series in full, im so excited to read it in the coming months but just like you idk if I have the strength in me to finish it like when I finished Tsumihoroboshi I left the game for a month before finishing both Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi in one week it was one of the most entrancing experiences I had with any novel or game and hearing people say Umineko is Ryukishi's Magnum Opus scares me because what if this is the best thing ive ever read in my life, what if I never experience something like it again, how would I react, but as of recent ive begun to detest that way of thinking it reminded me that ive been through this once a few years when I just got into anime. My first anime was AOT, I wasn't Privy to any sort of literature I hated books, found them boring and a drag because of school their way of educating made me despise literature I was extremely close minded but I gave anime a try when one of my friends kept bugging me, the most ive see of any shows where cartoons as a kid and breaking bad so I went into it with a negative mindset thinking I was gonna hate it, that anime was weird and lame but I loved AOT its thrilling action and amazing worldbuilding with fun and likable characters kept me hooked I wanted to see all of it, it was one of the most fun I had watching a show with friends every night after school we would get in call and watch around 3 episodes a day and we caught up to the end of season 4 part 2 when it was ending in a month and after that I had a thought is this the best written thing ever and will nothing surpass it for me? obviously not, I love aot and while I hold it dear to me for introducing me into anime I don't think its close to being the greatest thing ive seen now. I grew I watched more shows and instead of comparing it to aot, I saw them as there own thing and learned to enjoy media as that something I can experience, learn, being inspired, something that brings me joy to know ive seen it, I didn't have that feeling when I read Higurashi cause I learned from my past and also cause the fact that there was also Umineko but when I finished it, it became my favorite piece of literature ever something that changed my perception and view on a lot of topics for the good of me im not as pessimistic anymore and I love reading now. Although I do have problems in my own life that still scare me to this day that dawn over me I can feel safe knowing that as long as I put the effort in I can get through it. But for some reason that same negative way of thinking was looming over me scared of reading it but as my days are almost finished with both Higurashi's extra arcs and anime and ryukishi's other works I feel sort of melancholic, I want to see how this story changes me, I want to know what I can gain from it even if theres a slight chance that I have negative opinions on it cause I love sharing my thoughts on things. the thoughts still havent left but slowly but surely I feel the weight off my mind less and less cause surely I will read it soon, and when I do just know in half a year or so I will be commenting once again on your other video of Umineko :)
Honestly, how you felt about Higurashi is exactly as I felt after finishing Umineko. Nobody wants something they spend months reading, especially one that touches your heart as much as Higurashi, coming to an end. But that feeling as it cements itself in your heart, noticing the small changes that come from reading it, really causes you to appreciate it even more. That's one of the great things about stories, even if one may not has touched as deep, or swirled as strong emotions, there is always going to be something there you can connect with and make you think differently. Fiction has that power, though it is difficult to say goodbye to such beloved stories, there may be something just as heartfelt around the corner.
I do think you will find enjoyment in Umineko, though they are vastly different in how the mystery and characters are explored, there are plenty of similar writing quirks and themes that should be familiar. It's a masterclass of writing in my eyes and love to hear more people getting interested in it. Definitely take your time though; you want to be in the right state of mind before embarking on this very long journey!
I still have a few other Ryukishi works I want to get to, Rose Gun Days looks very interesting.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I love hearing them and your passion shows!
2:15 Bond between Author and Reader.
2:47 What does The Author want to say?
3:22 Gaining Confidence.
3:39 Wanting More.
4:15 Overwhelming Emotion.
5:02 The Soundtrack is great.
5:41 Favorite Chapter?
- They each have an impact
+ Consistent, entertaining, gameplay experience
6:44 Thought Provoking Game.
7:08 A Game beyond Description.
7:30 Thankful NeNeiSan. "A Brilliant Masterpiece."
I have just finished Umineko yesterday with my Discord bros after months and I am hyped to sit through decades of reasoning. Truly an unique experience of Story Telling Umineko is.
That's amazing! Finishing Umineko for the first time is a feeling like no other. Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
I love you
Love you too!
A brilliant story
Hello, fellow Umichad.
Hello, how are you?
4 months ???? ITS BEEN TEN YEARS FOR ME
It's a long one, so I don't blame you. I got addicted to around chapters 5 and 6, so that pretty much took all my free time.
Still reading Higurashi. Might try Umineko next (I already have the 1st part)
If you're interested, I'd like to recommend reading Muv luv next. An absolutely amazing VN! It has 3 parts. ML Extra, ML Unlimited and ML Alternative. Having just completed the 2nd part, Unlimited, I'm really begining to see why the 3rd entry, Muv Luv Alternative is the highest rated VN of all time! (...at least on vndb)
Definately a strong recommendation!
Just stay FAR away from that terrible ML Alternative anime if you don't want to be spoiled.
If you like Higurashi then Umineko there is a lot of parallels between the two that, by reading both enhances both works.
Muv Luv is near the top of my list. I've seen a lot of love towards it, so I'm excited to see why it is beloved! I'm going to be reading Ciconia No Naku Koro Ni next, so that might be what I check out next! Thank you for the recommendation!
I’m so hype to read muv luv
Welcome to the gang 😎😎😎
Glad to be a part of it!
people say they don't want to read the manga cause it shows the one truth and opens the cat box but the reality is vn did that too, it just wasn't shown but said. it's not like the manga is a completely different story. it just makes some things more clear but you can still get that from vn, manga just developes it more (shkanontrice gender identity, magic ending, breaking the witch's illusion by will etc). all of this is hinted in vn and the manga shows it to you visually and in more ditails. i love how much depth confession of the golden witch adds to beatrice's character and how it shows desperation in sayo's heart, it's the saddest thing i ever read
I very much agree. After reading the Manga, I'm glad to say that my worries were unfounded. The art was beautiful and seeing how characters like Rosa, Ange, and especially Beatrice were further developed put the story on another level! Confession and the follow chapter Cage of Oblivions had me tears, haha! What a beautiful story.
@@NeNeiSan oh yes! I cried while reading cage of oblivions too!
I like the manga but VN + rosatrice is too goated for me
In other hand, I've heard many good things about "The House in Fata Morgana" and "Raging Loop" from the same people that recommended me Umineko. So I'm pretty sure they are also great!
I've heard a lot of good about those titles as well, which gets me interested in reading them. Once I get that itch for a vibe similar to Umineko I'll check them out!
As much as I loved Umineko, I still wish the ending depicted a fragment where everyone came home, which was the expectation set in ch.1-4
Although there is a general happy end for everyone, minor unresolved plot points like the adults goals to save their companies and employees and Kraus’s debt were never really resolved.
And ofc that initial expectation the game set of Battler returning home to a young Ange. Which all in all felt like Umineko got a matsuribayashi end vs a miotsukushi end, still a great happy end, but not one which met all the expectations the story set.
Especially since the trick ending was eh… I think the choices should have been between a battler end and ange end, since it felt like Ange stole a bit too much of the main character role for the ending.
It really would have been nice to see a fragment like that, just knowing a possiblity like that is out there.
I do see where you're coming from, but I felt Umineko set itself up to have a very bittersweet end from Chapter 4's finale. Most of the story is entirely left open for interpretation which can set up many types of expectations, many of which will be betrayed. For me, the ending is a beautiful message of accepting and moving on from tragedy, that not everything will end like an ideal story. Like how Tohya learned to move on from Beatrice's, his and Ikuko's tales, his own writing was left for Ange to do the same as him. I would of loved to see more of the relationship between Ange and Tohya during the epilogue, though I was really satisfied with what was done.
It's a pretty decisive ending, many people love, many hate, and there are those in the middle. Though I find it to be one of my favorite endings of all of fiction, I can see how it can be unsatisfying.
@@NeNeiSan Yep, but I feel like the choice between Fantasy and Trick was the only real missed opportunity. Since it introduces different endings to Umineko... And while I loved the Fantasy end, which was an emotional and conclusive ride. The trick ending felt unnecessary and more like a simple 'bad/different end' to appease readers against the meta aspects of Umineko.
Pondering the two endings of Umineko always leads to me to compare with SubaHibi, though you mentioned you haven't gotten to it yet in your VNs to read in 2023 video so I definitely don't want to go any further. SubaHibi and Umineko are my 2 favorites, so whenever you get around to reading it, I'd love to continue this discussion with you!
I agree, there was more that could have been done there, espcially if you read it after the magic ending, it feels... kind of bland. I do like how it was handled in the manga though. It fit within the story without being just another bad end. I'm really excited for SubaHibi! I have heard many small things about it which have been increasing my anticipation for it. Plan to read it sometime in the summer.
Same here, I'm interested in what you have to say!
Ayo.... This VN is... Kinda good... 😳😳😳
More than good...Amazing!
I feel like Umineko unironically ruined all other stories for me. Never again will I read something so incredibly creative and impactful. It touched me the way no other piece of fiction has. It's not a perfect story by any means but I think its strengths far surpass its shortcomings. Ryukishi wrote something truly special that only us hardcore fans will ever understand.
For months, that's largely how I felt after Umineko's ending. Wondering if I'll ever come across anything as emotionally moving and thought provoking as it. FMD: Muramasa was one of the first VNs I read after Umineko, and while I very, very much appreciate it as a work of art, with the personal chords Umineko struck, it ultimately fell flat in comparison. Even today, Umineko takes up a big part of my heart, although, there have been many stories I have read that impacted me just as much. They all exist simultaneously at the top. Stories like that are out there! With enough looking you'll find them, but nothing can replace Umineko's creative style and path to your heart. That's a sign of a truly masterful story!
I keep hearing amazing things about Umineko and I really want to experience it. Back in the day, I did watch the anime but not all of it, I think I've watched around 8 episodes. Now that I want to go deeper in this story I really want to know: do you guys think I should go for the Visual Novel or the Anime?
That's great! In terms of the anime, I have not watched it myself, but I have heard it is underwhelming with how it skips important clues for the mystery and mischaracterizes a majority of the characters. Also, the anime only adapts half of the story.
I would personally advocate for the VN, as it does go deep into the narratives themes and fully fleshes out pretty much all of its characters. The soundtrack and voice acting are on another level as well, making the story much more immersive.
If you get the VN I recommend downloading the 07th mod to get said voice acting and updated graphics!
07th-mod.com/home/
I hope you give it a chance and enjoy it as much as I did!
Definitely the visual novel. The Anime only covers the question arcs but leaves many parts out and is overall very rushed and focuses more on the gory aspect and less on the actual cases and character developments.
Your video intrigued me about umineko and I searched at steam and I found 2 "versions", the question arcs and answer arcs. In which order shoud I read?
Question arcs first then answer arcs
question first answer second
Question then answer arcs.
Before you start I recommend downloading the 07th mod as well. It adds slew of additions: different art style, voice acting, and CGs.
I hope you enjoy it!
github.com/07th-mod/python-patcher/releases
A lot of thanks, after downloading the vn and this mod I'll start reading
@@joaocorrea6831 That's great, enjoy!
POG
sameeeee
I would not automatically recommend Umineko to everyone. It requires a certain "compatibility" to be enjoyed. I would never recommend it to people who hate post modernism.
Because Umineko is VERY post modern. Not to the point where the fourth wall dissapears completely and the voice actors start to call each other by their real names but it can get pretty bad sometimes. It also bombards you with dozens of hours of junk data wile witholding some absolutely crucial bits of information.
Again: It's not something everyone will automatically love.
That's true, the story's presentation is unique that it can throw a lot of people off if they come in expecting a more conventional storyline. Though how it handles it's meta elements are interesting, I agree, it's rough pacing mixed with it's post modernist structure can be off-putting.
does switch have eng version
It does not unfortunately
@@NeNeiSan do u know if i can play umineko on macbook with the same graphics as the console ones
@@NeNeiSan o don't really want to play pachinko
@@jimmyboi4019 You can! Here is a link to the 07th mod
github.com/07th-mod/python-patcher/releases/tag/v1.1.96
It updates the the PC version with Console art, voice acting, CGs, and text options NVL (where the text flows throughout ), and ADV (text appears in a set text box at the bottom of the screen).
It's a great improvement over all!
I use windows, so I'm not sure if the process differs at all, but it should be simple to apply if you have the VN on Steam.
"I'm afraid to read the manga... because while it may be good to know, I'm afraid it will take away from the message I got from this work."
I've always thought that it is a very Umineko thing that Umineko itself comes in two versions, the VN and the manga, with Ryūkishi07 behind both. Which one is the 'right' one? Which one contains the Book of Single Truth? Both, and neither, of course. Which is why I don't think the manga can do the damage you fear (I hope you realized this while reading it).
My main take-away message from Umineko is that we cannot establish reality (or truth as meaning 'in accordance with reality') because we have no direct connection to it other than our senses ('there is no Red Truth in this world'). Yes, it is ALWAYS possible that the world is simply a Matrix-like lie, a simulation being fed to our brains by some computer, or, in earlier, more 'classical' presentations, a dream, or a wily demon that is fooling us. There is NO WAY we can objectively decide this isn't the case, limited that we are to the input of our senses.
Logics is a great tool. Science is a great tool -- the best we have, the best we'll ever have! BUT... the mechanism of empirical science, since Sir Francis Bacon first codified it in the Novum Organon, or perhaps even those of logic as in Euclid's Elements, is that We Have to Start From Somewhere. Bacon needed external reality; Euclid needed is axioms. You dan't deduce something from nothing; you can't use science without making some sort of ontological presupposition about the world.
So how do we decide? Why did Bacon decide on reality? How did Euclid come up with his axioms? (And note -- one can be wrong in this decision: Euclid's fifth postulate was always controversial, and can be denied without too much harm; which led to non-Euclidian geometries.)
Umineko was the first work that gave me a convincing answer. We do it ... with love.
We decide to 'trust' the world because, well, we like it. It could still all be a lie (Erika: maybe my boyfriend is cheating on me? Maybe his claims of love are lies?); but we can -- it is within our power -- decide to accept it, because... we like it enough. We think it's worth it. And so we, quite literally (I want to stress this: it's LITERALLY, OBJECTIVELY true as far as these words go), create (= accept) the world... out of love.
And in this sense, Beatrice's words from Ep. 2 are deeply, deeply true, even for philosophers and scientists. The only element that makes the entire universe is... love.
That is how Umineko changed me, and my perspective on life. 🙂
I'm glad my worries were unfounded, as I felt the manga to enhance the message instead of detract from it.
Your philosophy of love and accepting the world is insightful, beatiful, and one I can deeply relate to. Umineko weaves the concepts of Truth and Love in a way not many stories touch upon. The two aren't completely seperate, but in fact, influence the other.
I feel Umineko has done much the same to me. Changing not only how I look at the world, but people as well. It has deeply affected me as a person, and I'm so glad to see the impact it has made on others as well! Thank you so much for sharing! How you tied the themes to philosphy was very interesting!
@@NeNeiSan Thank you. It is always good to share about Umineko. It feels like more than just a novel...
Take the final scene, for instance. We often think only of Battler's reaction to the presence of all his relatives -- all of them, human and magical alike; and of his rising from the wheelchair as his acceptance of his own memories. And that's all true.
But I also remember Angel's reaction. The same Ange who was do ready to judge and reject her family that she thought Battler's eighth game only contained lies instead of love.
It is so easy to hate the Ushiromiya. They're all flawed, some in horrible ways. Yet Ange learned in the end to love them all.
We sonetimes wonder if we're "worthy of love" because, after all, we're all imperfect and have all done things we shouldn't have. But if someone who can be as judgmental as Ange (who didn't even want to accept the truth of Maria's happiness) can also accept all the Ushiromiya (including Rosa!) in her heart... then maybe we're also all worthy of love, maybe we don't need perfection for it, just humanness, just being human...
Interesting, isn't it?
@@Asehpe Definitely, it's a story that teaches many lessons, some that can broaden our perspectives in a special way!
Beautifully said. In the end, we all are just people, capable of both hurting and helping others. A flaw shouldn't overshadow strength, as everybody has them to varying degrees. Beatrice, and as you said, Ange encapulize this idea so poetically. Umineko has many themes of love all put into one long, but meanigful package!
It certainly is intersting, and one I often find thinking about!