The dark reality of the Kidney Cult | 7NEWS Spotlight
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Liam Bartlett investigates Australia's most dangerous doomsday cult and how it is connected to the worst mass suicide since Jonestown. Praying on vulnerable Aussie teenagers, this cult encourages its followers to donate their kidneys for God.
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ITS CRAZY HOW MANY COMMENTS ON HERE ARE FROM HIS MEMBERS INCLUDING DAVE HIMSELF 😂😂😂
Yeah, like why let the person being stoned have a say? Such is the logic of the lynch mob trolls whom Channel 7 feeds here.
Yeah because he wants to control comments on youtube as well, but not everyone is stupid.
@@arrivagabry It's interesting how people resort to "cult members are in the comments" and "he wants control of the comments" when they don't have an actual response to any of the stuff members are saying. I get it, "cult members" are no to be considered human, so they shouldn't have the right to respond to the lies being told about them, right?
I am Kenyan, a Firm believer in Jesus Christ and I am happy this expose was done.....
Did Dave McKay donate his kidney? If he hasn't, he ought to live what he preaches.
Yes, he has. There was even a documentary made about the Jesus Christians donating kidneys 20 years ago (!!!) called Kidneys for Jesus. Channel 7's reporting is hardly 'news'. ABC (in Australia) also did a couple of documentaries on this issue about 15 years ago on their 'Australian Story' program.
I heard he did..from a documentary I watched about the kidney donations they made. I think it is on youtube.
Yes, Dave Mckay donated his kidney as well.
@@philippages
As his wife, I was present when Dave McKay donated his kidney at the Mayo Clinic hospital in Michigan. It was a beautiful experience. I sat with is recipient's sister, and a nurse came out to speak to us each time the doctors completed a part of the process. For instance, "The doctors have just removed Dave's kidney", "The (named) recipient has just been taken into surgery", etc.
It was a joyful occasion---much like attending a live birth.
Dave went through extensive testing before he was allowed to donate. He has no regrets about doing so.
It appears that several have already responded that he has indeed donated his kidney. Hopefully it will inspire many people around the world to do the same and continue saving lives. He certainly lives what he preaches, doing things out of love, what Jesus truly teaches.
Just blows my mind the power that narcissistic people have over others. Its like being under a spell.
This comment section is very weird lol😂
Yeah!! A bunch of weirdos
cult members . victims trying to discredit , they expose themselves in their stupid comments
They're probably followers
Great expose, Please keep exposing these criminals who are devils in disguise.
I love their idea of dumpster diving. With so much greed in the west, it helps that there are people who are gainst food waste.
When you consider the number of people STARVING in countries like South Sudan, or Somalia, or Liberia, and then you compare that with the amount of food we could see being collected from the trash by that ONE small group in Melbourne... truly sickening indeed.
@@Jay-fz4se I wonder why we don't feed the hungry children within a hundred miles before we feed those across the world. I'm in the USA and we have been feeding the third world my entire lifetime. when I was a kid, we did UNICEF food drives and I got reprimanded for asking why we weren't feeding the kids in our own county first. Do you have any hungry children in your area? if so why arent you feeding those children? Truly. Sickening. Indeed.
@@gaylehudson7267 At least one thought that comes to mind with what you are saying is that much of the food in the West is originally grown in poorer countries, including in Africa. So, why shouldn't they feed their own kids there before shipping food over to the U.S. or other richer countries? Of course, one reason is that the U.S., China and other countries buy the food and the money is too enticing. But the sad thing about the waste is that all this food is shipped hundreds of miles to rich countries only to see much of it thrown in the dumpsters. I am all for helping people locally, but I think that can also become an excuse for corporate selfishness and does not take into account how much we have stolen from the poorer countries to make ourselves rich.
@@philippages The main difference to which you refer is that the USA BUYS food from other countries while we GIVE food for free to other countries. And which countries in Africa do you suggest are producing a surplus of food to sell to us? And don't forget the BILLI0NS of doses of HIV drugs we send to the continent of Africa because the sexually transmitted virus is now endemic there.
No.....that is because they dont have a lot of funds and it is a good way of making bank on those properties
The dumpster trash bin part (17min mark) was eye opening. And it's probably the most spiritual connection to St. Francis of Assisi who ate from people's leftovers as did Christ Himself.
Yes, that was intriguing and quite shocking (the level of waste). I had the feeling while watching this documentary that it could have been a very different story portrayed by Channel 7, but they cut and paste to make it sensational because that sells and the vast majority of people fall for it.
That's an interesting observation!
@@kyle8691 You are truly fried....cheers
Great comment. I felt that the whole dumpster diving scene was the least sensationalized, though it would have been good to have shown members talking about the philosphy behind it.
That's disgusting eating food from bins 🤢🤮@@philippages
As a autistic person who has a son with autism this kind of stuff seriously scares me these people take advantage of those with autism and other neurodiverse issues such a shame scares me its why I keep my relationship with my son close
I realise that every case is different but I have relatives who are on the spectrum and they are intelligent and independent young adults with no particular propensity for gullibility or being taken advantage of (probably largely because their parents didn't treat them as though they had a disability, but just focused on helping them become self-sufficient critical thinking adult human beings).
@@UnPoquitoDeSal
In fact, to their credit, Jace's (i.e. Christian's) parents sent him to normal schools, and always maintained that he was not a victim, and that he was able to perform well socially. Fortunately, he is on the low end of the autistic spectrum (often referred to as Aspergers... like Greta Thunberg has). It was only after Jace made a choice that his parents disagreed with, that they went to the courts and tried to argue that he was an invalid, who could not survive in the real world, unless the courts made him their ward, and he was confined to their custody. Even after he turned 21, there was talk of them getting him committed in some way.
There is an extremely high correlation between superior intelligence and autism, so it's not necessarily the barrier that some people attribute to it. In fact, one theory is that it is their high intelligence that forces them to filter out some things, i.e. because it is their tendency to over-think minor issues that can be problematic.
I personally have seen videos of Jace preaching and even translating within Jesus Christian circles. He is a highly skilled leader, and is looked up to in our community, unlike the kind of atmosphere that his parents were trying to foist on him. They took him to court, and he won a legal battle against his controlling parents. Good work, Jace!
So sad to see all that food waste
Unfortunately, groups like this appeal to people who feel lost & vulnerable. Such a tragedy to see young people living like this 😢
Pretty weak case they made against that Simon/Jude? guy being in the Shakahola Forest years after preaching in Kenya. The best they got was hearsay from a primary witness. How does that make sense? If she was a survivor, why did she say someone else told her he was there in the forest? Seems like anyone can be a "translator" for the right amount of cash. I wonder how much they paid that one.
it doesnt make sense at all, but it doesnt need to make sense if it makes your emotions fire up and gets people to watch your "news" slop the next week.
@philippages yes, they don't have any evidence.
how can you see someone in a place and after more than 5 years say that you remember that you saw them 5 years before... in 5 years you see a lot of people! it is impossible to remember the face!
There is a recording of the actual interview betwen Jude/Simon and Liam available on the Jesus Christian CZcams channel. You will be shocked when you learn what Channel 7 knew BEFORE they released the lies about Jude's sermon. But you will need to find your own way over to a channel which has a title about "a voice" being "in the desert". Hint, hint! Nudge, nudge! :D
I heard a lot of accusations but, where is the evidence? 🤔
exactly
Didn't you see their eyes? And the way they ate cake? Isn't that all the evidence you need?
@@GODSPEED-bn2rj I hope you're being sarcastic...
@@Jay-fz4se
lol! But the mere fact that Channel 7 decided to put unflattering clips in whenever they could do so, suggests that they themselves may have not been able to recognise how ridiculous it would make them look.
Are you blind? Many comments here are from members.
Cults aren't just religious
They can be political parties in the policy of narcissism
The world shows that we Need Jesus, for no matter who runs the world's countries, they've never got it right.
Something is so very wrong....
keep on going to use Jesus for ANYTHING , time will show, he will defend all this smudge!
Cults always work if you put Jesus in the equation, and strangely this Jesus always needs money 🤣
@@arrivagabry And yet, us Jesus Christians are against working for money. So...
@@philippages yeah the followers don't get any the leaders do
After watching this I watched David's video on the "anti-cult movement" (because I'd seen a clip of it in this "investigation" piece) and I have to say it was surprisingly VERY reasonable. It made me think that a LOT more could've been discussed in this interview if extracting actual info was the goal, as opposed to aiming for sensationalism. If there truly is an "anti-cult movement" then I guess you could include me in those ranks, as I've viewed an enormous amount of that type of content and this "investigation" is probably the weakest case I've ever seen made.
The most culty thing I've seen here is the splitting of family ties but that's not super clear, since I've had disagreements with family that caused no communication for several years and could be attributed to human nature really, as we all tend to be tribal in nature. Plus, the only connection to the horrific starvation cult in Kenya seems to be by occasion of guest speaker (no other evidence presented) and here in the US that does not equate to legal lliability, as we (supposedly) have freedom of association.
I think you raised two important points - that the only connection the JCs had with Mackenzie's church was a one off guest speaker at his church (which happened in Nairobi, not Malindi as Spotlight said), and the fact that it is not uncommon for families to have rifts that break communication.
The ironic thing is that Renee cut herself off from most of her own family some years ago (the reasons of which I don't think I am fully aware of). I even warned her that if she kept behaving the way she did, I would cut off communication with her the way she did with her family. Sometimes cutting off communication is the best option, especially if you want to keep your sanity.
Thank you, Heather, for a very balanced response to the whole issue. We Jesus Christians as a whole, and I as an individual, have been grossly marginalised in a report that clearly hides (or distorts) anything good that might have been said about any of us, while providing no evidence whatsoever for anything evil they can say about us. It takes some effort for a member of the public who is given such a one-sided picture to be able to see through it, and yet you have done so despite your own sympathies with the anti-cult movement.
Let me say that I can appreciate some genuine anti-cult concerns. In the early days of our own movement, I agonised over accounts of the Jonestown massacre, constantly asking myself how I could say what I felt needed to be said in my own attempts to follow someone who was crucified for his beliefs, without falling into errors that occurred in the Jonestown movement.
The danger in the anti-cult movement is not that genuinely bad groups might be marginalised so much as it is that faulty reasoning (e.g. guilt by association) can be applied to almost any group, with horrendous injustice as a result for those who are NOT guilty. It is the faulty reasoning that needs to be questioned.
Thank you again! I wish I could give this ten upvotes! : )
NOTE: If anyone wants to see the anti-cult livestream, just go to our CZcams channel (A Voice in the Desert) and do a search for anti-cult.
At a time when it feels like nobody is willing to even give us a chance to be heard (despite us having opened our doors to Channel 7 to do just that), I greatly appreciated reading your comment, Heather, especially because it seems you ARE in overall agreement with the anti-cult movement, yet are able to see things dispassionately enough to consider the truth in each side. Like Dave, many of us in the Jesus Christians have given serious consideration to the things that different proponents of the anti-cult movement have said, and we have tried to do our best to avoid any potential abuses that can come from people living together in community like we do. We just wish that there could be more honest and fair discussion about the issues, including pointing out how unfair it is to be treated the way that Spotlight and some anti-cultists (like Rick Ross) have treated us, where they purposefully distort the truth and hide important facts to continue to push a false "destructive cult" narrative. Anyway, thanks!
Humanity is honestly so fucking weird
true. especially when the truth is twisted as much as these media giants want to. This documentary hides so much, yet the truth still shines through.
you said it!
@Radporelamor Your love of this CULT is impossible to hide. Please don't choke on all the Kool-Aid you are drinking.
@@abbynormal206 U R SO RIGHT
More and more weirdo’s , they multiply like mushrooms 😂🙋♀️
Dang! Are they really blocking comments here pointing out how Channel 7 chopped up and distorted these interviews? 🤔🤔🤔
So glad to hear some common sense (finally) coming through in these comments. It's obvious this is another mud-slinging sensational story by Channel 7.
That's a member of the cult doing that culty "defend the brand" thing we all know from MAGA 🤣
Me: Holds a different position than someone else.
Someone random: Cult member!
🙄🙄🙄
@@saoirsejb There's a difference between the everyday person who votes Republican, and a cultist. Yes, I do like many of the policies Trump had and I think he was a better president than Biden. However, I have no problem with chatting with people who have different views so long as we are both in agreement to have a civil conversation where we both have a chance to learn from each other.
@@nerysghemor5781 yes, you are right, there's a big difference between an everyday person who happens to vote Republican; and a MAGA cultist who defends 'Dear Leader' even when he's wrong, and against the facts.
It is striking that Channel 7 does not present any evidence of the accusations they are making. It seems that putting into practice the teachings of Jesus (which are contrary to the values of the system, both religious and political), is seen by society as the worst evil thing anyone can do.
is true
Where did Jesus say to give your kidneys away? God made your organs for your body.
@@lolas185 Jesus didn't say people should give their kidneys away, but he did teach us to do unto others as we'd have them to unto us. If you were dying from kidney disease would you like someone to altruistically choose to donate their kidney to you, so you could live? In the past, there was an uproar from society saying that giving your actual life blood to others was wrong, but now it's a very common practice and a lot of lives have been saved because of it. People see the benefit of doing it to help others and they're thankful when they too (or someone they know) is in need. Yes, God made organs for our bodies, but as we have seen from blood, we can donate it without ill effects. The same with donating kidneys. Some people donate liver lobes. Did you know your liver grows back? Anyway, God wants us to love one another and donating a kidney altruistically is a one way to express that love.
@@lolas185
Lolas, where did Jesus say to eat ice cream? Or to drive motor cars? Or to play football? Can you see a flaw in the logic that assumes everything we do must be dictated in the Bible?
On the other hand, Jesus said to treat others the way we would like them to treat us if the situation were reversed. (It's called The Golden Rule.) If you were dying from end-stage kidney disease, would you want someone to donate a kidney to you?
There are a lot of allegations thrown around here but I haven't heard a single bit of evidence. When you try to truly depict a situation accurately, you look for both sides of the story and the facts that back up your case but what we've just watched here is incredibly devoid of these important aspects and convinces me that Channel 7 has not even sought out to accurately depict the truth but twist it instead. Considering how any people are actually dying from waiting for kindney donations on waiting lists, I think willingly donating a kidney to a stranger is A very kind-hearted of them to do. I mean it's not really a documentary unless it's honest. They've just gone to great lengths to stir up emotions through sensationalism with dramatised angles, transitions and empty allegations all in an effort to sell a hot scoop which isn't based on any facts or truth. Typical of the media really. I don't buy it.
Thanks, Iris. This forum is gradually shifting from what started out as almost exclusively death threats and the like, to some honest critical thinking from the likes of yourself. I think it could be at least relatively unusually for Channel 7, although I never watch it, so I don't know. I just know what a horrible job they did of defaming me and our community, all to sell a story.
@@DaveMcKayJC Sorry to hear that, the negative feedback is what this documentary intended to stir up but people are ,thankfully, now paying attention and questioning what's been said here along with finally seeing through the tactics Channel 7 has used to misrepresent you and the community. May God stand with you all in this time.
@@IrisGreene-mv1xm
Thank you, Iris. Perhaps the saddest part of this is that, if Channel 7 ever gets its way in Kenya, it could result in the deaths of innocent people over there, because it is very common (daily occurrence) for the public to take justice into its own hands and "lynch" (their word for stoning to death) anyone whom someone starts shouting accusations at in a crowd. The police tend to turn a blind eye, because it saves them the formalities of laying charges and conducting a trial.
Fortunately, the Kenyan media (which is not necessarily famous for its overall integrity) reacted positively to a release we sent out to all of them showing that the so-called report on us was just a cut and paste from a blogger whose blog was closed down by CZcams after he was caught out falsely accusing some other people. Channel 7 knew this, as becomes very clear to anyone who watches our tape of the "master interview" that Liam conducted with two of our members. It was a bit comical in a way, because Liam literally was running scared by the end of it, as he had no answer for all the evidence our members produced of Channel 7's dishonesty. Liam walked out of his own interview because he was so shamefully exposed. Please check it out on our CZcams channel (A Voice in the Desert).
Started watching this not knowing it would end up being about my country KENYA OMG!! so sad
So sorry that happened to all those innocent people in your country. I'm from San Francisco, Jim Jones also caused many to die. Really wish people weren't so desperate that they would join cults like this and Jim Jones, or David Koresh. May your people get justice.
But how could this tiny sect have caused so much damage from just one small sermon? I don't think they would be able to.
Girl me too.. I’m just outchea working then boom few minutes in Kenya is in the mix so sad
Watching from kenya..and this was hectic a mess to say the least
It's digesting how white media in Australia is happy to trivialize the death of Africans to get some advertisement money.
So, what did you get from the interview?
Well, it's not such a bad thing that they donate kidneys.
Lmao😊
No, not a bad thing at all. What's bad about saving someone's life? In fact, we need to raise MORE awareness about kidney donations. I'm hoping someone will donate to the former basketball superstar Nate Robinson, in fact.
It’s bad because it involves coercion and brainwash. If someday a family member likes parent or a child, needs a kidney, they will not be able to donate to them.
It’s a horrible thing. If their family or even child, ever needs a kidney, they’ll be unable to donate to their own child or parent. It’s bad, because it involves coercion.
Further, these transactions often generate money. This is low-key organ trafficking.
@@lucycarolaDo you realize how selfish what you said is?
Are you saying that we shouldn't save someone else's life, just for the very, very, unlikely chance that your family member might need a kidney in the future before you die?
Do you believe that everyone outside of your immediate family is unimportant?
I watched the whole interview and I still don't understand how it relates to internal organs. ? . I'm 😢 confused.
Welcome to the group!! The truth here is that there is no proof of what they accuse, it's amazing that a TV channel makes so many lies! If they are willing to accuse someone of something, at least show their proof or not?
They really want you to believe it's a terrible thing to willingly donate one of your kidneys to someone who needs it! In reality, it's the opposite.
That was just the hook to get you to watch the main 'story', which in itself - a woman estranged from her daughter over differing spiritual/religious beliefs - is pretty mundane. They didn't have enough information about any one particular thing to make one complete documentary, so they had to use controversial click-baity ideas to get people to even watch it.
@@ellicia839it’s ridiculous…
Absolute wacko's 😮
It is critical to ensure that the information we share is accurate and verified before we believe it. I do not believe that solid evidence and its backing has been given in this documentary. It is important to approach these issues with care and responsibility, especially if they involve serious allegations. They painted it as if eating or exercising was bad, I'd rather watch another newscast with real news, like climate change.
You're right!
The missing ingredient on almost every count is "evidence". I would challenge everyone who thinks Channel 7 did their job, to tell me three pieces of evidence that channel seven provided to support anything they said against me or our community. I don't think anyone can do it, although I expect a lot of people will confuse accusations with evidence.
Good to see someone is paying attention.
This is probably the worst story ive seen on spotlight. Shocking journalism.
Glad you can see past it.
That is just not true, some adult children do turn away from parents with very good reason, but ther are plenty of parents who would run from their horrible childern😮
Astounded at the food just being thrown out when the cost of living is so high.
The first minute shows how Channel7 manipulates the footage to polarize it and get people emotionally charged. Pretty shady if you ask me.
I literally sounds shady
There's only one guy who's shady here and it's nothing to do with channel 7.
Is 60minutes on channel7? I think they're abit shady. ...
You must be a member
@DesertBirdie that’s what I was thinking!
They're "Freegans"! Nice
Yeah, thought the same, not the worst cult I have ever seen. Far from it. And the old dude wasn't even a sex pest either. As cults go, they didn't seem too bad.
Haha yeah, food looks great.
@@edmundotoole00
Yeah, if anything, we eat TOO well, because some of us are struggling to shed a few kilos. Speaking as "the old dude", thank you for your restraint. No one needs to put me on a pedestal, but it's refreshing when someone has the courage not to pick up a rock and join the stoning! :D
@@DaveMcKayJC It was a kangaroo court hosted by Spotlight.
@@edmundotoole00
Yes, a very good description! : )
Does he not realize he is dying?
lol
this whole documentary or whatever you want to call it was all over the place, really. theres a million different angles the producers are trying to come at the JCs through, and it seems like they're just hoping to get something to stick. they call them the "Kidney Cult" but thats not even relevant to what they are REALLY trying to sensationalize; the deaths in the Shakahola Forest. the connection between the JCs--really, Dave and his wife--to Paul McKenzie, is ephemeral at best. there's too many sub-plots to their grand accusation (that Dave is directly responsible for starving 400+ people), and it seems to me it's just to build up a negative repertoire, and to make you stop thinking about how any of this makes sense. what is the connection between donating kidneys to save lives, and people being starved to death? also, how does it even make sense that this is Dave's fault? Paul McKenzie was the one who was definitely there at Shakahola, probably forcing others to starve themselves. maybe he honestly thought this would lead people to Jesus, but maybe he was getting his narcissistic jollies from commanding others in a position of authority. if the latter is the case, I wouldn't imagine a cult leader would bow down to anyone else, or allow their power to be shared. what would Paul McKenzie's ego gain from giving Dave the credit for his own actions? why didn't they just go to the jail Paul's in and interview him while they were in Kenya?
I think it just goes to show they didn't have evidence for the story they WANTED to tell. So, they just threw a bunch of mud at the wall and hoped something would stick!
This is a high control group aka cult by default. The daughter can't even talk with her mother alone without her the approval of the leader and then her minder husband is there anyway. She's robotic in her responses and the way she speaks. The process of mind control tactics and fear has done that. Although where she's at now shes unable to see it and will believe everyone else is mislead etc. That's her whole reality construct and sense of identity.
The leader is highly manipulative and narcissistic. Plays word games to avoid any responsibility. The soft speaking nice guy demeanor is part of the self deception. He believes his own lies. These types of groups are revolting. They go after vulnerable people to "save" them.
This man is the Devil himself.
I understand how the mom felt but if she wanted to continue having a connection to her daughter, she did everything wrong! I remember this group from a doc when they were in LA. Any group/cult/whatever that encourages disassociation between family members is NOT Christian. And any group that says that they're the best, only or true faith is definitely a cult!
I don't think our "group", the JCs, has ever said that we're the best. We teach that there is no one group that will get you into heaven - being in or out of our group doesn't necessarily make you a good or bad person.
Plenty of people of our community DO have good relationships with their families - and for my first 2 years in the community, I had a good relationship with Renee, too. But it was once she heard lies about us, and that other people thought we were a cult, she got scared. I tried to tell her she was believing lies and misinformation, but she didn't believe me.
@@ellicia839 And I would add that we CONTINUE to want Ellie to have a good relationship with her mother. The problem is, at least at the moment, Renee seems more intent on waging a war against Dave/the community than simply trying to relate to her daughter.
Sometimes, Julie, just circumstances result in a "disassociation" between family members. I left my family to live in a dorm at college after I graduated from high school. Some people move away from home in connection with getting a job.
When a person joins a religion that is different to that of their family, it almost always causes some tension, although most families are able to work through it. But at the heart, many denominations would agree that a person's religious faith should not be dictated by their parents... and parents who persecute their grown children for thinking differently are usually the more likely cause of divisions within a family.
As a community, we do all we can to maintain positive relationships with family members. We don't need enemies (and I can well imagine that most other groups would feel the same). So please learn to question when the media tells you that a group has set out to deliberately alienate family members from one another.
@@Jay-fz4se
Jay said that Renee seemed more intent on waging a war against me. However, I would encourage people to go to 38:51 in the Spotlight report, and take note of the first thing that Renee says when she finally gets to sit down with the daughter whom she says she has never been allowed to talk freely with, and ask yourself who she is attacking. (It's not me.)
Her first words: "So, what are you offering?" And she goes on to berate the daughter she has supposedly been alienated from, blaming her for all the supposed "suffering" that Renee has been through over the years that she has waged an unrelenting campaign against me and the Jesus Christians.
Even Liam Bartlett was embarrassed by Renee's attack, although Liam quickly turned it around to also attack Ellicia for not giving in to her mother's demand that she phone her every week. Renee's attack on Ellicia in those four minutes of the Spotlight report give viewers a better understanding of why it is that Ellicia saw no point in letting Renee dictate the terms under which she would communicate with her daughter. Please watch it. 38:51-42:52
And, for the record, there has been no bullying, no name calling, no mental abuse, no emotional abuse. Every time Ellicia has asked her to elaborate, she has had to admit that it all exists only in her own imagination. "It's how I feel," she says.
Definitely thought that Channel7 was up to no good there, they aligned these people showed no evidence. People over 18 are free to go and do whatever they like and if they want to believe in Jesus and live in a happy little home fair enough. As for the connectionto Kenya, there was no connection other than a pretty standard preaching of a pretty standard Christian message about the end times. The whole thing look like persecution to me
Thanks, Vivienne, for a very sane response in the midst of some deeply disturbing hysteria, drummed up by Channel 7's totally irresponsible journalism.
Jesus said you will know the tree by its fruit. Altruistically donating organs to strangers is NOT a bad thing, it actually saves lives. To treat these people with fear and hate is NOT right, or fair.
I think a sincere person can see through the lies of channel 7 and understand that they have sensationalised a story for views and money. It is clear that channel 7 doesn't care about facts.
The truth can stand alone, just as Jesus did when they nailed him to the cross. The truth needs no defence, it stands forever, and lives on forever.
This is a good comment!
Probably money's changing hands, but it's not going to the donors.
Too many cults popping up and many things are going on that have nothing to do with Jesus' message, LOVE!
@@misslady0075
Can you be more specific about who the money is going to? Do you have any evidence?
Can you donate you kidney to an unknown person
Too bad these mothers don't respect their children's choices. They could choose to have a good relationship with them instead of going off the deep end because they don't live the way they want them to.
So right said. If her/ his Child is happy and not suffering, then let the child choose their lifes. a child who is grown up is not a proparty of the parents. I agree your words. When we grow up we make our own values and choises, just like mom and dad did and made their choices. In these cases stop chasing children. The parent is controling and thinking about herself a lot I I I. The daughter is taking space because mother is being the way she is. Without cult word spoken, in normal cases we also step a way from parents, when parents are disagreeing. We made the world so much in families have to be this or that. Sometimes you make new families with same values, if parents values are to much apart.
However, if you look from the Judeo-Christian perspective, the children are breaking the Fifth Commandment: Honour Thy Father and Thy Mother.
Their children's choices are crazy, and a mother doesn't stop being a mother just because their kids decide to leave and follow a crazy cult leader. A parent's job is to protect their kids at all cost, if you don't get that you are out of your mind.
They can’t have a relationship with their children, that’s the issue. It’s not the parent, it’s the cult leader. Geez.
Wearing shoes in bed!? Add that to the list of offenses!
If he tried that with my kids, he wouldn't be around to hurt anyone else's kids.
Right…same. He would mysteriously disappear.
He would knock you out 1 hit
@@BulkernatorKerb Interesting attitude regarding a supposed follower of Jesus.
People can give this post a zillion up-votes, but it still amounts to a death threat. Do you really want your name to be associated with such an attitude?
@@DaveMcKayJC - you behave like a monster. Those with their own minds and eyes are not deceived and blinded.
This is what I don't get: When Jonestown happened, it was 942. The other day, I heard 912. Now this guy says less. How are the numbers who died going down? Did those people come back to life or something? Tell the truth or be silent.
They're talking about Kenya, not Jonestown. Jonestown happened in Guyana, in South America in the ,1970's.
This was Kenya, in Africa, 2023.
Wrong part of the world, completely wrong millennium!
@@samanthafairweather9186 No. Im talking about Jonestown Guayana, November, 1978. The narrator is talking about Jonestown Guyana November1978 too. I only commented that when it happened, the number was 942 and now its barely 900. How can I believe what this documentary says about something new if they can't even get well-established facts from almost 50 years ago right. But then there is the revised version of every historical event. Got to believe the revisionists.
This is dreadful and evil 😈 😢
That Spotlight song was a bop.
This documentary has "666" likes. lol
There is humor in all situations.
LOL XD
Haha,
jaja :')
This was hard to warch ... 😢
Actually, Channel 7 does not give any real evidence of what Dave Mc is accused of. They are very serious accusations that they present, I am seriously thinking about demanding proof of such accusations, it does not seem fair to me to go around saying such horrible things about someone, without showing evidence.
What Channel 7 has done is obviously defamatory, but I'm guessing that their algorithms have told them that I am too poor to defend myself, and so they can get away with it. They would never get away with such lies about anyone who could afford legal representation.
It is clear to see that it is all about control. Any doubts? Go against McKay's grain and watch him fume.
thats because youre a member and have a bias love
@@David-og7di
It goes without saying that we all have biases. it's not impossible for people from very different backgrounds to be able to listen to and appreciate each other's differing perspectives, however. The whole report lays out what can be considered my biases. Can you share a little about where you are coming from.
But more important than your biases would be Channel 7's biases, imo, because the TV station can make a lot more money with a scandal than they would with a "nice" story about a group of Christians who are trying to practice the things that Jesus taught.
I had some great conversations with Luke Mortimer, the producer for this report, who kept telling me that they were going to do a nice story. I told him that was hard to believe, because I know from my own experience as a journalist, that the big money is always in scandals. People just love having a monster to throw stones at. And, of course, I was right.
Luke, of course, knew that too, and we have here what resulted after all of those lies he told me about doing a nice story.
But I think the main thing I and my friends are challenging the rest of you to do is to look beyond blanket claims that I'm the devil, to determine exactly what evidence has been produced for any of those incredibly defamatory claims. That's what a court would do.
This is insane!
How the heck have I never heard anything about this atrocity over here in the UK. 1:02:33 it’s then he knew she’d fu*ked up!
The look he gave her!
Man he looks like George Carlin
And evil George Carlin!
He also looks like Alejandro Jodorowsky. But the topic here isn't dopplegangers.
@@teresahiggs4896Wait, sorry, what did he do actually?
@@ChristianStevens-wt8rv
Seriously, if I scratch my head, someone here is going to see evil in it. They have already made up their minds that I am the personification of evil, and they don't really want to be confused by the facts!
Flavour Aid…..is associated with the say…….Drink the Kool Aid.
Why would they think their adult son was kidnapped when the dad saw Christian (the son) leave of his own volition? Autonomy needs to be respected. BTW if he is actually autistic, he seems to be pretty high functioning and quite capable of making his own decisions.
Yeah, there is so much about the parents' testimony that is contradictory. Christian left a note, but they failed to tell the media about that, pretending that he just "vanished", and Channel 7 decided to go with that.
@@DaveMcKayJC No. She explained the note. And they showed the note.
@@Sonic_Shroom
Sorry, I can see that what I said is confusing. I'm talking about at the time when Christian left. The authorities and the media were called in, and apparently even started searching for him as though he was lost in the mountains, suggesting that she had NOT told the media about the note at that time. I agree that the note was mentioned in the Spotlight report. But even there, it clangs with claims that Christian just "disappeared".
@@avoiceinthedesert When a person leaves with a group that fits the BITE model . Questions have to be asked.
@@avoiceinthedesert I was replying to what Dave said not you.
I understand how they welcome people in. They seem very reasonable and comfortable on camera. Most cult leaders, simply, do not.
maybe they are simply not a cult and just friendly people acting sincerely?
Seriously, I'm not so sure that anything meaningful can be said about "most cult leaders". What I want is an official list of all the groups that are officially recognised as cults. You won't find Jesus Christians on any of them put out by the so-called experts, because they know that the best they can do is to describe virtually ANY group as being "cult-LIKE" (or cultISH). Why? Well, because groups all have leaders, rules, and some kind of unity. But the laws in most Western countries teach that it is defamation to come straight out and name a group as a cult unless you have strong proof of them engaging in illegal and immoral behaviour on an institutional scale.
To Liam & Alisha's Mother
Speaking as a Mother who actually HAS lost a child , my youngest son 6 yrs ago a week after his 26th birthday , and as a Mother who actually DOES "live" ( I just exist now , not live) in constant grief . I am hurt , offended and disgusted that Liam would even think to try to compare or think that anything could be even close to what it is like to lose a child . When he asks her "This must be almost like a loss" and she responds that she "Lives in constant grief" , let me be absolutely clear , there is absolutely NOTHING that can be compared to the loss of a child , there is NOTHING that is "almost like the loss " of a child and her claim that she "Lives in constant grief " , no she does not . Her child is ALIVE , she KNOWS her child is alive , she lives every day with the hope and possibility that her child might/could call her on the phone , hear her child's voice , that she might/could walk through the door , so she can see her child's face , hug her child , tell her child "I love you " . Every day I live with no hope , no possibility , none of those things will ever happen again . She wakes up every day with that hope , knowing her child is alive , I wake up every day filled with hopelessness , in absolute never ending agony , knowing my child is gone . I exist in constant grief . Nothing should ever be compared to the loss of a child , nothing even comes close , no one should ever say they understand what it is like or how it feels or that they feel the same way , if they havent lost a child .
Shari,
So very sorry for your loss, you are right, there is nothing worse than losing a child. I don't believe Liam meant to offend you, for these parents having no contact feels very painful, not knowing if they will ever hear from their child again is painful as you know. There are legitimate mediums like Matt Fraser who may be able to connect you to your child, he's here in CZcams so you can look into him, watch those he has connected together and see if it might be something that will help you. I am sure your child doesn't want you to suffer each and everyday for the rest of your life, so I hope you find some way to bring back the wonderful memories of your child and know one day you will definitely be together again. Wishing you peace❤️🕊🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I’m very sorry for your loss, nothing can compare to losing a child. I am very glad my daughter is alive and I hope she is happy and safe, however, the evidence suggests this is not the case. I live in fear that McKay will tell her to starve herself to death, just like MacKenzie coerced his followers to do. The thought of never seeing her again crushes me, so I really can understand how you feel.
I have lost a child and I will never get over it. However, I think you should be ashamed rather than enraged by Rene's comment that she lives in constant grief, Perhaps, it is not a perfect choice of words. While you have, like I do, no longer hope, she has constant fear, terror of loosing her daughter for good. This is not a battle for who is in the worst position. How about some empathy.
This is NOT a forum for you to project your obvious mental health/trauma issues on others. If you are wanting some understanding and empathy how about trying to give some and see why she feels this way? Not physically having a child who is literally alive in the world and not contacting you IS like not having them alive. You have a right to grieve your loss, you DO NOT have a right to tell others how to grieve THEIR LOSS!
@@reneespencer3437 it is impossible that this people get away without justice! It is clear your child is totaly influenced. I understand, you want her to saved out of this situation to save her life! So was I trying to, but failed and remain like "Shari" is describing it, the last 4 1/2 yrs. feel unreal for me.
I pray, that people will help you, so that your daughter comes out of this. Anyways, using the name of Jesus Christ in so many evil ways, will lead them to their "Karma"! Fight!
I felt that mothers grief. There is nothing normal about every one sat in a room watching this meeting and the husband walking behind. She wasn’t really able to talk. I felt the daughter looked ill, underweight, and frightened to speak. This is all odd. You can be apart of a church, and have your beliefs but living together the way they all do like a cult is wierd. You should not have to forsake your life and family and friends to to believe in Jesus.
I'm sorry, but if your parent thought that you're not able to think for yourself and make informed decisions, how would you go about having a relationship with them?
Jesus literally said that you weren't a disciple if you don't forsake all in Luke 14:33, but I'm not going to push you to live like us. You can be a part of a regular church if you like, but I've done that, and it's not for me. I need something deeper, and realer. No one needs to be a part of our group to follow Jesus either; I just personally find it helpful.
You probably thought I looked that way because Spotlight wants you to think I'm a trapped, brainwashed, cult-member. But your perspective is not the truth.
@@JohanHeimer, that sums up well how I feel!
@@ellicia839You responded "that sums up how you feel" to the other commenter.... Yet, you don't seem to care that your "leader" doesn't allow you freedom to think for yourself?! He literally went as far as into having to be there when you met up with your mother. He doesn't trust or believe in your ability to make decisions for yourself, obviously. You're contradicting yourself.
He probably fears deep down ' if its so easy for him to pull others away from people then they can be pulled back just as easily.
I mean why's he so scared of people speaking with their own families? That's cult behaviour.
You say that it is weird that the group was in the room while mother and daughter had a meeting, yet you don't seem to think it is weird that Channel 7 asked to film it and broadcast it on television? Do you think Channel 7 was there with the intent to broadcast it because they have the mother and daughter's best interests at heart? Come on - start questioning media spin a little more, and you might start realising that they play to peoples' bias, and not much more, all for the sake of ratings. Let's not forget Spotlight, and Liam Bartlett's monumental example of that with the Bruce Lehrmann story. They just want to get ratings and the money that comes from that, nothing else. Whatever gives them a good story is what they'll sell (Notice that the most popular videos from Spotlight are about UFO's and conspiracies - it should give you a hint as to who their main market is!)
Poor mother. I will email but not “talk on the phone”. That sounds like a good way for the master to control what his sunbelts know.
Perhaps it is a good way for the daughter to keep a record of what is actually said so that her mother doesn't later claim something different. At least that is what the daughter has said in a video on the "a voice in the desert" channel.
I can’t imagine how devastating it is for these parents
It must be devastating for them. When their sons and daughter forsake an "great" future to live with a small hippie group that tries to imitate a small religious group in the first century, there should be some suspicion, BUT when we never learn to accept their choices as grown adults, that's when the issues begin to grow exasberlly. We need to learn to move on and try to understand. Have dialogue. This documentary isn't positive. It meant to grow fear in the general public like the rest of the news these days.
There's a BIG difference between accepting an adult child's & knowing that your child or young adult has been "taken in" by something that is totally detrimental to them & their very lives.
@@RadporelamorIt's NOT meant to grow fear; but, to try to show what exactly is going on in the group, although as controlled as their access was, they weren't able to show very much unfortunately. From what you've written it makes me wonder if you are either apart of this group or another one like it.(?)
I agree....parents, siblings, grandparents, etc'😢
@@tandiparent1906 I think if Spotlight tried to show what was happening in the group, it would be summed up in 10 minutes at most and probably, in the end, not have a story that sells, but they've decided to use many old accusations along with horrifying new ones. It's a very predictable angle from these news sources that have certain amount profits to make just like any other inflated company on the market.
I have many friends in this community, and it hurts to see just how much this type of journalism, which is actually supposed to bridge worlds together through very polished and truthful media, destroys the reputation of harmless groups like these, marking them as dangerous and, essentially, terrorist. Yes, most people will likely be disgusted at the content when they and move on, but some should take the time and find some sincere truth in this and do something proactive about it to fight big media. This group is being held accountable, why not Spotlight as well?
Cult members in the comment section 🤣🤣
Heartbreaking that someone from this cult was able to adopt 3 children and then bring them back to this cult 😮😢
Not: "bring them back to this cult", but: "bring them into this cult", since the children were not in this cult before. However, it is not a good thing, indeed. But you cannot just take the children away *now* that they *are* in the cult - I know you did not say anything about that, *I do:* but you cannot do that when you have no proof that the children are being abused. *When they adopted the children, they hid the fact that they were (are) part of a cult. So, the children are already in this cult now, and that is what you have to work with now.* Even *IF* abuse of the children would be proven: *not every* case of abuse leads to children being taken away, which is understandable.
When children love their biological or adoptive (or even foster) parents and *genuinely want* to be with them, then it will *always* lead to *trauma* to take them away against their will (against the children's will, I mean). Therefore it has to be considered *which trauma would be the worst in the long run,* and *in how much danger the child is in the short run, if (s)he stays with the* (biological / adoptive / foster) *parents.* Based on all that, a choice has to be made. The child has to deal with the consequences of this choice the rest of his / her life either way.
It is very, very *possible* for a child in a cult to *not be abused,* and to *be loved,* and to *be well taken care of,* and to have *others thinking there is abuse of the child,* only *because the cult indeed does abuse people,* when it *does not abuse the child,* and to be taken away because of it, and to *be traumatised in the short run AND in the long run by being taken away from his / her* (biological / adoptive / foster) *parents much, much MORE* than the *POSSIBLE* trauma caused by "just" being in a cult that they MIGHT have suffered if they were allowed to stay with them.
Being taken away is *a guarantee* for trauma in the short run AND in the long run, while having the child stay is *NOT* a guarantee for trauma, but "only" *a possibility.* So, *when there is no abuse, then the choice is easily made to not take the child away,* regardless of them being in a cult. *When there is abuse, then the choice is not easy to make,* because *EVERY* choice that can be made leads to trauma *either way.* But *when there is abuse AND great danger, then the choice is easily made to take the child away* from the (biological / adoptive / foster) parents.
Is children adoption from a poor country a bad thing now?
the children looked completely happy, well looked after, and educated. Could you be mistaken with your judgement?
@@dan080692 apparently so....
@@Notendop90
Channel 7 interviewed the three teenagers extensively, telling them that they were taking "hero" pictures of them, and pretending to be interested in hearing what these teens had to say. So how much of that was shown in the documentary? Spotlight gets on its high horse about a 26-year-old woman freely choosing to join a group, as though the 26-year-old has no right to make such a choice if her mother disagreed. But then they set out to destroy a family with three very happy, very bright, and very healthy teens, on the basis of one word... the "c" word!
Here on this forum we have evidence of how easily the media can whip up hatred against totally innocent people just by using that one word. No evidence needed. Worse than that, 7 spent eight days in our home, day and night, trying to find some kind of dirt they could use against us, and yet hardly one minute of their filming of our family life turned up in the documentary. Their total LACK of evidence for all the lies and innuendo is our biggest defence... if only viewers had a little more discernment as well.
It also suggests that they were not happy with what they actually DID see during those eight days, because it did not suit their agenda, which had been set out before they ever stepped foot inside our house.
Her husband just sitting there eating cake is infuriating
So disrespectful.
"LET THEM EAT CAKE"
Wars he meant to do
At least he didn't talk for her
Yeah, it's ridiculous that the husband would just sit there quietly and let his wife and her mother talk without interrupting... 🙄
Terrible people
First time I heard of this cult but if it is true then the Kenyan government can charge the leader and decide in a court of law if there is a fire t connection between the massacre as ND this David guy leader. I also think that no group should be claiming to be a religion and tax should not be allocated....how convenient....an enquiry should be made on all those so called religion be Christianity or Islam...etc...
Many countries are lucking to investigate many of these cases and we’re asking WHY not ??
There could be some working undetected with no major happenings, but in this case, it has got really bad and atrociously serious .. what is our government doing ??
Never thought that something like this could ever happen inside our country…
Also the way this cult has spread to an African nation is unveiling their true “Jone’s” like intentions…
This mob wannabe leader, Dave, clearly said it … Kenya is full of corruption… such comment shows exactly why they’ve picked this African community, in order to work their cult without disturbances…
The saddest thing is though, their tentacles are spreading around the world,recruiting vulnerable people for their course … Atrocious !!
The truth is that the only thing the Kenyan Senate Ad-Hoc Committee reported as far as this group goes, was more or less a copy and paste from a defamatory blog article written by Simon Mwangi Muthiora. The report contained numerous lies. Spotlight knew that, but they refused to mention it. You can see more info in the video called "The Truth About Shakahola and The Jesus Christians".
A very balanced comment, friend. Thank you. At the moment, the Kenyan government is thoroughly embarrassed by what the ad hoc committee claimed, because they have not been able to find a bit of evidence to back up any of it. Not even Channel 7 was able to get any information out of them.
For free???
Yes, for free.
I'm so tired of parents feeling they "own" their adult children (forever) & should have "access" to them & their little ones. If a stranger holds more sway than you in your adult child's life, then you need to ask yourself why. Children don't turn away from their parents without a good reason. Perhaps that's the reason the other parents didn't want to participate in this program. Just because you brought up a child to adulthood doesn't mean you have the right to see him/her against his/her will. When they are of age & not insane, then they should be allowed to make their decisions (even if you think someone is "manipulating" them). ie. He/she does not owe you anything since you chose to have him/her, not the other way round. You had all those years when they were a minor to do your "magic" & adhere them to you till eternity. It's game over now if you weren't successful. Please don't blame the children or some strange folks they prefer over you. If you disagree, take them to court & prove why your wish to see them should supersede their wish not to see you.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think in this case, the main reason some members of our community do not want to see their parents is because such parents have behaved aggressively, violently, etc. towards them and do not respect their decisions to live the way they want to. Members of the group who have parents who have not acted in such a negative way tend to have fairly good relationships with them and are in regular communication with them.
I wonder, are you a parent?
you are cruel and wrong
Yeah, it’s weird that parents want to have a relationship with their children. The audacity!
Has he donated one of his kidneys in the name of god?
He's virtually holding them against their will..
Mind control is illegal..
Why don't authorities shut him down!!
If he is able to make them say they are there out of their free will, they cannot do a thing, can they?
'Mind control' is a myth. (Look it up for yourself if you don't believe that statement.)
@@UnPoquitoDeSalas I said under your last comment, David McKay says the same thing in his CZcams video titled “Our Links to the Starvation Cult”
Exatly, this is outragious!! All this f... criminals who destroy young lifes are going away with it? What is this!
From the Channel 7 doc anyone can see that Dave McKay and his wife are old and frail. I can't even imagine that they could hold someone against their will.
The cult's propaganda videos are so simplistic, McKay is playing with simple and ethnic people.
PLEASE I AM A KENYAN CZcamsR PLEASE ALLOW ME TO USE THIS VIDEO AS REFRENCE AS IT AINT BEING SHOWN IN KENYA
Utapigwa copyright strike kalu sana
I have no doubt that Channel 7 would love to have this video shown in Kenya, in support of its campaign to defame me. But the media in Kenya has, on the whole, had more sense than to do like Spotlight has done and publish defamatory material when there is so much overwhelming evidence that it is false.
HOLY people DO NOT USE FILTHY LANGUAGE THAT RIGHT THERE IS EVIDENCE AND ALARM BELLS. MAY THE HOLY LORD SEND HIS HOLY WARRING FIERY ANGELS AND TURN THIS WICKED BLASPHEMOUS ABOMINATION INTO DUST JUST LIKE IN THE DAYS OF JOSIAH I HUMBLY PRAY IN JESUS MIGHTY NAME AMEN
This mother needs to stop looking at it like a chance to air her grievance and appreciate this is the first time she's her daughter in years with or without the old rat and everyone else
Can see why her daughter took off. She went from one controlling environment to another
she should just come to my church. We are the best. RICKY Rozay. Uhhhhh Didn't even know it
This mother, me, was told I was “allowed” to see my daughter in the company of her husband and film crew. Five minutes before arriving at the house, I was told the rules had changed and I to meet the whole community and then they would decide if I could speak to Ellicia and Joseph alone. Unfortunately, that part of the documentary was cut out in the editing process. I was not airing my grievances in public. I want to help prevent other families from going through the hell I have endure.
@@reneespencer3437 I apologize for my comment it was insensitive to assume I was aware of your actions or intentions after watching 40 mins of this program. My comment came from a place of ignorance and to be completely honest with you and myself I do think you done a great job with the situation you were faced with and I could not imagine having to speak to my child under the supervision of a clearly power hungry and manipulative old man. I really hope your time with your daughter away from the camera was worth while although I suspect it left alot to be desired. I wish you the best of luck on your relationship with your daughter in the future. And I offer my apologies one last time for my insensitive coment
Apology accepted 😊. Thank you for responding to my comment. The intricacies of all the back stories were hard to capture in a 68 minute documentary. My daughter is a beautiful, kind-hearted soul. Her and I had a good relationship before all of this. I am not a controlling person in any way shape or form. My greatest “fault” as a parent was raising my daughter to be too trusting. McKay took Ellicia’s conscientious nature of caring for the environment and wanting to help others in a community atmosphere and exploited it for his own selfish means. If I have lost my daughter forever, then the very least I can do is help prevent others from going through the same heartache. Please this video with all your friends so as throughout Australia we can start having conversations about the presence of cults in our midst, and the coercive control they yield of unsuspecting victims.
Bad interview but what do you expect from 60 minutes.
It isn't 60 minutes but yeah thats true.
It sounds a lot like the following of the Trumpets.
Dummmm to.dum dum dumb
Could you explain further?
@@ChristianStevens-wt8rv Regarding what?
32:28 Anyone know the song ? . It’s beautiful.
Sadly , I’ve been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer , and I don’t know how long I’ve got on this earth . I hope I beat this horrible disease, and if anyone would like to say something nice or say a prayer for me , please do so . May G-d bless you all , Captain. Doctor . Kästien, Medical Commander in the Israeli Army , Tel Aviv , Israel 🇮🇱 😊
Scammer
I am not sure what the song is bro. I tried searching it up but couldn't find it. I hope things go okay with recovering from cancer. I hope for the best for you.
I’m so sorry. 😞
"Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis, Kästien. May you find comfort and strength in the support in God. Don't give up and don't lose hope.
People should never believe the label (Christianity) if the content is obviously something else. If you read the Bible without being told what to believe, you will never come to these people’s conclusions. To isolate a few verses and base your believes on that alone, it is a cult. This is heartbreaking.
I like your suggestion that people read the Bible without being told what to believe. Can I make it a little easier by suggesting that people read the teachings of Jesus in the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and see if they come to the conclusion that God doesn't want people to be encouraged to do good deeds, because that might be seen as them thinking they are better than God (or whatever it is that you have been trying to say in other posts about Jesus Christians offering to donate a kidney to save someone from dying of end-stage kidney disease)?
I do want to thank you for making it clear that it IS our adherence to the teachings of Jesus that is upsetting people, and not some farcical claim that we are mass-murderers, like Channel 7 pretends to believe.
😢😢 I pray 🙏 for family
I would say, pray for their sons and daughters that they are taking advantage of to get fame, and to spread hate for groups that offend their beliefs.
I have no connection to any of this but I think that the interview was totally disgusting and wrong. Why didn't anyone listen to what they were saying? They were being blamed for something that they had no involvement with. They never would have been so open to that interview had they suspected that they would be attacked and thrown under the bus. I suspect that they thought they would be listened to and treated with respect just as anyone would deserve. I personally think that Liam wanted to sensationalize his story for ratings and he was totally out of line!!!!
ilastapleton2788,
You are entitled to your opinion, but anyone who runs a doomsday church is not normal. Liam was doing his job, trying to help families see there adult children they had lost contact with, and see what this group was about. I guarantee you the leader is a narcissistic psychopath, if he truly cared about these people, he would not feel threatened by their family. Cult leaders shut out the world, refuse to allow anytime alone tells you their twisted agenda. Hope you don't fall for the same nightmare.
Youre Obviously one of the cult members
I totally agree with you. They’re Def strange ppl n display some dodgy behaviour but this doco didn’t expose anything was extremely one sided. Pretty poor journalism as usual 👎🏼
Great comment. How many are actually looking for the truth though? Sensational lies sell... but if we humbly hear both sides we'll get the most precious thing, the truth, and no one can take it away from those who sincerely seek for it. I have seen the un-edited versions of the interviews on the Jesus Christian website/CZcams channel called "A Voice In the Desert" and they show the clear lies and distortions that Channel 7 created.
@@bkm2797 I don't think you were paying attention. Ellie and Renee had NOT lost contact (and neither had the other guy and his parents).
Dave Mackay and his followers are here commenting aplenty. The "defences" are well and truly up. His ego's been hurt He must feel rattled. Boo hoo.
If someone kicked you in the face, your defences would be up too. It's bad enough what Channel 7 has done, and what it continues to do by leaving this video up. But to deny someone the right of reply would just add to the crime. Maybe one day, someone in the media will have the courage to let the truth be heard about all of this.
@@DaveMcKayJC you’re so sure you’ve been defamed? Take it to court.
@@ld-zj1bn
As you and Channel 7 must know, it would take a few hundred thousand dollars to take it to court, and 7 has all the most successful lawyers on their payroll. I don't even have a pension with which to fight them, and they know it. Although it would not take much to prove a case against them, if I were wealthy.
Woman in Seattle washington denied a kidney transplant unless Covid vaccinated living in australia 2020 helpless the agony the nightmare its a hell living here since 2020 the pain its they have caused us good
Aussies have a unique accent. Different from their father's land, Britain .
Camino
CZcams will recommend Christian videos and fox News pundits
People, please note that punishing yourself or wanting to be punished by others for the sins of the world or for your own sins are not scriptural. Jesus already took that upon Himself. He was the perfect sacrifice for sins, for ever. All you have to do is believe, and live a thankful life, doing good to others. Please never punish yourself or others - also don’t force people to do good deeds, because your good deeds cannot save you. Only God knows the heart and you can only be saved by believing the completed work of Jesus Christ. To mislead people about these basic Christian believes is tragic.
No one is "forcing" people to "do good deeds". On the other hand, we ENCOURAGE people to do good deeds, which IS the true "basic Christian teaching". Jesus told his disciples to take up their own crosses and follow him, something that the do-nothing teaching hates with a vengeance. He absolutely DOES expect us to lay down our lives for him and for others, even though that may take different forms for different people in different circumstances.
Please stop trying to mislead the general public on what Jesus actually taught his disciples to do.
Our lord Jesus would be ashamed or sad that the mis use his name . Those are no Christians!
@justcurious4060 I’m Jewish , not a Christian, but I totally agree with you . These aren’t holy people at all . Very sad indeed .
How is donating a kidney out of kindness against Jesus?
Jesus said this about those who are, and would be, his followers: " “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you *and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.* Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." That seems rather different to your opinion on the matter.
Could Heaven and Hell actually exist .. between our Earlobes ?
For only having a few hundred members, this comments section seems to have a few prospects. Eloquent ones and knowledgeable too.
I’m sorry but Jesus Christians seems redundant as a name. It’s like Dog Canines.
Dave has shark eyes! There’s nothing in there but hatred and anger! He’s horribly narcissistic and super manipulative.
I see right through his nonsense and I hope and pray that I have raised my children to be able to see through people like this as well!!!
Sometimes I hope to myself that my children aren’t like me so that they can make a better life for themselves and their babies and their babies, etc!
However in these situations and/or circumstances I hope that they are JUST like their Momma!!!
I thought at first, man, I can’t believe this is happening in this day and age but then I think more into it and realize that it’s probably getting easier and easier for these clowns to brainwash and control good and innocent people into doing whatever they say bc these younger generations have so much knowledge and wisdom at their sweet, lost fingertips that they have no idea where exactly to turn. The world is a crazy, scary, and confusing place. In my opinion, the younger generations are going to continue to struggle with things like this because they’re already flippin scared!!
I am trying to raise my kiddos to be independent as possible and to never let anyone tell them what to believe in. That’s THEIR CHOICE!!
I THINK…I hope that I’ve made my point.
I don’t know what to do as for a solution though. I am at a complete loss there but there has to be something we as a civilization can do to prevent this from happening over and over again.
God be with the cult following/victims and also be with their families and loved ones! This was heart breaking to watch!! This is a reality though for apparently many, many folks and THAT to me is the scariest part!!
Y’all be good and take care!!!
🫶🏼✌🏼Peace!!!✌🏼🫶🏼
@MadamHoneyB Awesome comments my dear friend 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💯🫡
The Light of Heaven to You..super comment !
There is a lot of ad-hominin attacks there about Dave, but nothing of rational substance, just a lot of appeals to emotion.
HUH?!
Huh? It sounds like this documentary was confusing?
@@JohanHeimerWhen you say a lot of things without a hint of evidence, it's super confusing.
What a despicable old monster 👹
I'm sorry, but why?
Actually, Liam Bartlett isn't all that old, and I think we need to still love him, and consider how he has been kind of forced into doing the sort of things that he does. If he refused, he would probably lose his job.
@@DaveMcKayJCgo home to your coven Dave.
Horrible Skript ,dude 🚩 👎👎👎
He likes himself so much, it’s really hard to watch for me,the body language 🤮🤮🤢🤮🤮🤑
So they illegally go in bins and have people illegally living in a garage, awesome group
As a freegan, I think it should be illegal to waste the amount of food that supermarkets throw away! THAT is a literal crime against humanity. I don't think it is illegal to live in a garage. Most people just wouldn't consider doing it.
And yet they appear poor. What’s the point of a cult and being a leader, if you don’t reap in the cash and live in luxury? So weird. I don’t understand what motivates him…I guess he’s just enjoys the power and control 🤷♀️
Going in bins is victimless
@@unsocialbutterfly5760 Maybe he is trying to follow what Jesus said about not accumulating material wealth?
So, you would rather the food be totally wasted?
Wow!!!😥
What exactly?
🎉🎉🎉
One way to fix a brainwashing dave 😂😂😂😂😂😂
That daughter is madly brainwashed 😮
Totally, you can see it in her eyes…she’s empty, like no one’s home. Very sad.
The concept of 'brainwashing' or being 'brainwashed' is pretty much a superstitious belief at this stage, based in pseudoscientific ideas of how the mind works. (If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself.)
@@UnPoquitoDeSalDavid McKay said exactly the same thing in a video he made about Shakahola just after the bodies were being dug up. The title of that video was “Our Links to the Starvation Cult”. Maybe the Kenyan senators saw that video too …
@@reneespencer3437 David McKay does not have the monopoly on the idea that brainwashing is superstition/pseudoscientific. Plenty of academics, published in journals from Stanford and MIT amongst others, also assert that the idea of 'brainwashing', 'coercive persuasion' and related synonyms etc. are pseudoscientific.
"the theory is essentially identical to the pseudoscientific theory that was developed first by the American CIA as a propaganda device to combat communism, and second as an ideological device for use by the American anti-cult movement to rationalize efforts at persecution and control of minority religious groups. The CIA theory has been evaluated scientifically in research in several contexts (i.e., communist coercive indoctrination of Western prisoners, the CIA's attempted development of brainwashing techniques, and with American new religions or “cults”). In each context, it has been shown to be ineffective in coercively changing worldviews. Because of this pattern of disconfirmation, testimony based on brainwashing theory has been opposed as unscientific by relevant professional academic organizations and repeatedly excluded from American legal trials."
Even just the Wikipedia page for 'Brainwashing' will give you plenty of information and relevant links on the topic.
Seems pretty rational and in control to me...
Wow, this is disgusting.
The amount of lies without evidence from Channel 7 is truly disgusting.
just yuk.
Aren't these cult leaders supposed to be charimatic? M.Kay (ultra) has none.
Right??
He’s gross, so gross.
Maybe he's not a cult leader? 🤔
@@Jay-fz4se
Good one, Jay! I had a friendly academic interview me once and make the same observation. She said that she has always understood that the one thing that all supposed "cult leaders" had in common was charisma. And she said that I had totally failed that test. I didn't know whether to take that as a compliment or an insult. I think I feel it is a compliment, as it is kind of a deterrent to me getting carried away with power... since I don't have much power to get carried away with. It's almost like people have joined the Jesus Christians IN SPITE OF me, rather than because of me.
What we are saying is true, even if I'm dumb, socially awkward, and even befuddled by age these days. Let the truth be heard, and let Dave McKay disappear into the shadows where he belongs! : )
Shut them down !
For what?
Do you mean Channel 7?
Where is old south Wales? Is there a North nueva Wales. Lol 😆
38:17 She obviously didn’t want to see her mother. “Oh, ok…..ok…..come in” 😒
She has been taught to believe her mother, me, is a Satanist and associating with me will mean an eternity in hell. I took McKay to court over the defamation and the judge determined that he was a malicious liar.
@@reneespencer3437 That is not true. Ellie has never been told that being associated with you means an eternity in hell. Also, the defamation case was over Dave having stated that that you were "a Luciferian, a Satanist if you like" based on the fact that you had said that "Lucifer is intelligent and and beautiful. Lucifer is a catalyst to finding the true light of Christ." as well as other spiritually dubious statements, as Ellie herself has revealed in her video. The so-called "malicious lie" was simply that Dave stated you were a Luciferian as a fact when he had previously said that he wasn't 100% certain of it. If he had simply said "a woman who could be a Luciferian based on her statements", there would have been no case. Nevertheless, it is clear that the breakdown in your relationship with Ellie had nothing to do with the "Luciferian" statement, something the judge also pointed out.
Parents obsessed with controlling their adult children, tend to make them want to go away.