Redemption Arcs: Best Trope? What Makes a Good One
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2020
- Spoilers: The Dragon Prince (s3: hot), SPOP (s5, hot), Kipo (mild), Infinity Train (mild), A:TLA (hot), RWBY (hot), The Good Place (s1: hot, whole show: mild), The Owl House (mild), at 13:05-13:13 spoilers for Young Justice, Carmen Sandiego, and FMA:B may be relevant.
Notes: Zuko wins. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The thought that we like redemption arcs because we're all looking for improvement and seeing people become better is so nice
I used to be an absolute mess as a kid, and I thankfully grew out of most of it, so yeah redemption arcs resonate strongly with me
I really do love Zuko’s redemption because it’s not like he changed his mind overnight or all of a sudden understood why the avatar and friends were going against the fire nation.He resisted he learned from his experience and had advice from his uncle.I really think he did it in the best way possible.While still keeping some of his views on the avatar and friends.
Zuko has the best redemption arc in cartoon history.
2nd and 3rd place is amity and hugo
His is the best. I think it would be so difficult to have a redemption arc on the same level as Zuko
@@jaycrews3707 I do agree that Amity is 2nd place. Idk much abt Hugo or where that character is. Something they j love abt Zuko’ sand Amity’s redemption arc is that even after they get redeemed there are still some struggles they have because of things that got engrained in their brain. They are still processing and they aren’t perfect from the second they get redeemed there was still work to do and they continued to work on that
@@maem7462 I completely agree and also you should watch kipo it's on Netflix then you can see hugo/scharlaman (I didn't spell that right) redemption arc
Listen there's a lot of reasons why Zuko's redemption arc is so amazing in the way it's written but also it's possibly the funniest part in ATLA when Zuko does one good things and immediately falls very ill
YES
this is my FAVORITE thing in ATLA.
Yeah the man does a single good deed and almost dies
It is kinda funny
It's funnier because it happens twice, once in the series and once in the comics
This is just my personal take on Catra’s redemption:
I think Catra began to realize why everyone left her once Scorpia did but it isn’t until Double Troubles confrontation when she finally confronts these feelings. Catra basically realizes that THEY weren’t the problem she was. And bcc of her toxic behavior everyone she used to care for/ cared for her is gone. She has no one except for one other person in the ship with her.
Glimmer.
I used to think this was random but thinking abt how much Catra hates Glimmer makes it more clear. In her mind Glimmer is the one who took Adora from her. Glimmer even told her that she was the reason Adora left the horde. In their fights they are especially mocking towards one another and like u said Catra basically made her mom die even if it wasn’t her intention. Nevertheless the two are somewhat getting closer. The memory of Catra being jealous of Adora and Lonnies friendship was 100% intentional. It makes Catra sending Glimmer BACK to Adora so much more powerful.
In my opinion this moment isn’t her making right with Adora it’s her making right with Glimmer. Then in the Save the Cat she learns that she is not beyond repair and that she is still loved with Adora. And in the next episode she learns how to swallow her pride and how to apologize with Entrapta. And learns that kindness is not weakness with Perfuma.
She spends the entire season trying her best to make things right with everyone she wronged and only gets her happy ending at the very end when the person who was cause for her toxic behavior in the first place is finally gone and Catra comes full circle. Sorry this is so long.
I love all your points! Glimmer and Catra’s dynamic honestly made season 5 for me.
Gaaaahhh I genuinely think she needed a whole extra season to even remotely convinced by her "redemption". I mostly just felt she was redeemed because the writer wanted it and had a schedule.
@@williamstark9568 well obviously the writer wanted it. Noelle knew that catradora was endgame from day one. And I agree Catra mostly got her redemption bcc Adora decided to be a simp but even though her redemption wasn’t totally earned I don’t think it was that bad.
yes, her arc with glimmer was essential!! but she really needs an episode with scorpia
Ky ren rephion was a waste of time since he kill his but CZcamsrs like Goldman will to themselves about obvious lik kylo ren redemption ark and rey not a mary sue or boba fett a bad charters
Spoilers for Kipo:
I loved Hugo’s redemption arc because as much as he was a villain, he was also a victim of abuse and him wanting to move on from that and try to be a brother to Kipo and a productive member of the mute society is proof that there’s life after abuse and redemption for those who are willing to take it
Agree!! Reminds me of Catra! It’s a tough narrative but when writers pull it off, these are the most hopeful forms of redemption because so many people can relate to the cycle
Also the episode where he destroys everything he can, then discovers “Oh I can’t destroy a child” is just gold
However they ruined Kipo by redeeming ALL the humans after they already helped Emilia cure a handful of important Mutes, that’s not right they just forgave all the humans, they should killed half of them and only forgave half
I'm pretty sure Golden guard is going to have a redemption arc in the Owl house season 2
That’s what I’m thinking as well. Idk if it’ll happen in season 2 or if the writers had planned for his redemption arc to go into season 3. If they planned for it to go into season 3 it’ll sadly be a bit rushed because they have a shorted season 3. I really hope his potential redemption arc isn’t rushed. It would be great if they happens during season 2 because then we know it’s what the writers had planned
@@maem7462 I'm pretty sure he'll be well on his way to it by the next time we see him. The rule of three is a strong trope, and he's had three different people show him that he can be better than what he is. Luz saved him from Kiki, despite the fact they were directly at odds over the Palismen. He and Amity went back and forth with the idea of being worth something to other people, and she almost got through to him that being useful isn't the only source of self-worth. And then the cardinal bonded with him and the episode fades to credits while it talks to him and shows him that things he's been forbidden to touch aren't as dangerous or toxic as he's been led to believe.
He did.
I LOVE your point on catra. I started the show liking her, then I hated her for the majority of it, and I'm glad that she was redeemed, but I was unsatisfied because her turning around and seeking forgiveness wasn't as fleshed out as I hoped it was (seeing as she was directly responsible for many terrible things). Good take. I am subscribed :D
Catra's redemption was honestly the best part of season 5. So many deeply emotionally intense moments
Pretty much
Her chance to improve came and went hence unsatisfactory cause she didnt learn she got accepted in spite of it
@@gbdeck200 I mean, she did learn, but the whole show was kinda rushed. 5 seasons and still less episodes than Avatar, which had 3 seasons. We need to bring back full, 20-25 episode seasons.
the thing i've noticed with redemptions often time viewers are more willing to forgive large acts of evil vs personal attacks on favorite characters. often some like catra you threatens the world is more likely and easily redemend then someone who is not as evil but is cruel to the main characters makes sense but is just interesting as in the real world i would likely be the opposite.
This is super interesting! You’re so right
I think the reason why this is the case is because people tend to get extremely invested in their favorite characters in a show, movie, video game, or any other form of media. Because of this, they tend to get more worked up if a character they liked gets badly hurt, be it physically or emotionally, and take this "injustice" much more personally
Definitely! Also for some reason a lot of people get upset when an animal is killed while being fine with human characters murdering each other. That is very much the opposite in real life, even manifested in law.
That happens because people can relate to characters who get abused or suffers personal hurt from a character. I 100% related to Scorpia being someone trying to understand and accept a toxic friend. It hits harder for most people because a lot of us have suffered abuse from the hands of family, friends or partners more than we've suffered from the hands of evil rulers or robots.
I do like Catra’s redemption but I think one reason why it’s not one of the best is partly because the shows did get a little shortened because of financial issues. I think if they had more time her redemption would have been so much better
Claudia from The Dragon Prince really struggled with the idea of her family falling apart since her mother left. I think this is why she decided to choose her father's side believing she can lure her brother back to the family while this seemed to be harder to do with Viren. I don't think she's beyond redemption so I'm looking forward to the next season.
This is neat! I love Claudia so I hope!
I think it goes deeper than that- she wants desperately to be a good person, but she's trying so hard to try to redeem Viren, and she can't do that without making compromises to keep his trust. She's definitely started to distrust the bug thing that speaks with the voice of the guy whose name I don't remember.
My take on Amity’s redemption is that it’s not really underdeveloped because she DID apologize to Willow. In Understanding Willow it may seem like Amity’s apology to Willow was half assed because Amity showed her parents telling her to cut ties with Willow. However the important thing here is that after recounting this even Amity comes to the conclusion that this context casts further negative light upon her (ie: “Willow you were never to weak to be my friend, I was too weak to be yours). Amity didn’t bring up her parents as an excuse she did it to 1. stop the inner willow from erasing Willow’s memories and 2. provide content for her apology to Willow. She had to make it clear exactly what she was apologizing for, and nowhere does she claim that her actions are any less terrible because she was influenced by her parents. Later Amity has to uphold her promise to Willow in wing it like witches, which she does do although it takes her a while to get there. Her redemption needed to be fully developed and Im glad she didn’t do a full 180 that quickly.
Agreed. And Amity is still changing and becoming a better stronger person. Her arc has continued through season two. The most obvious episode is when she finally stood up to her mother. During that episode we could actually see her reverting back a little by allowing her mother to kick Luz, Gus and Willow out of school. But in the end she breaks her mothers “spell” over her.
I would also like to mention the whole situation with Luz. I mean, yes, Amity was a bully, but when it comes to Luz, it can be seen a little different. I think that in Amity’s eyes, Luz wasn’t the greatest either. To her, Luz kinda just came in and threatened to ruin the things that were important to her. When Luz was around, bad things seemed to happen, and I think that scared her. And I absolutely believe that it has something to do with her mother. Odalia seems to care a lot about her place in society and how she (and her family) is viewed, so she cares a lot about how Amity is doing in school. So, perhaps Amity reacted so strongly in I Was a Teenage Abomination because she was afraid of her mother’s reaction. That would honestly tie in quite nicely with her backstory with Willow. Her mother had control then and she has control now (at least until recently). The bullying isn’t excused, but if it is tied to Odalia, then you could say that Amity’s redemption ark has continued into season 2.
I also like that Willow doesn't immediately forgive Amity or befriend her again. She just says something along the lines of "it's a start".
@@mayab2099 i also loved how she went from mean girl to bestie to lover. We can't say the same for hunter or matt but they do go from eneimies to friends and lovers (only for hunter with willow. Idk if matt x gus is canon.)
Also scammer scum in hootys moving hussle almost got redeem but became a reoccurring villian in 2 more episodes(is it two?) He acted like he has a path of redemption in that carnival episode i forger name.( s1 ep14) but he decided "no, im gonna scam more people and turn the kid who crushed my stand small and get them eaten by unicorns."
I'm so glad that more people have noticed how incomplete and kinda undeserved Catra's redemption is. I really do like seeing her try to help everyone and also show guilt and apologize to the people she's hurt, but two things stood out to me.
1. Obviously, the fact that she was forgiven way too easily. I get they're in the middle of a crisis but at that moment, they could have treated Catra just as an ally who they don't like, but happen to be on the same side as them. Seeing Glimmer and Bow fawn over how cute Catra is, after she literally murdered Glimmer's mother, is uncomfortable to say the least. Similarly, Scorpia and Entrapta also forgave her way too easily. Remember that Scorpia didn't know that Catra had changed; the last time she saw her was when she yelled at Scorpia about how useless she is. Scorpia is sweet, she's kind and my favourite character, but even kind characters get hurt and they don't have to forgive their abuser that easily. Entrapta's reaction was a little more realistic because even though she told Catra she forgives her, she also didn't talk directly to Catra after that. Which leads me to think she still distrusts Catra and wants to keep distance between her.
2. Her motivations were one-dimensional and kinda selfish. The only reason she changed herself was because she didn't want to lose Adora. Not because she realized the Horde is killing thousands of innocent people, not because she realized she was being toxic to innocent people, not because she wanted to be better _for herself_ . Remember Zuko's redemption happened solely because he realized how messed up his nation was, how messed up his dad was and he noticed how much innocent civilians got hurt or killed because of the war. For Catra, it's merely because "I've loved Adora for so long, I need to make her mine!" and the others are just like "okay! you're a hero and our bestie now!!"
another reason why toph "forgave" zuko so easily is because she talked with Iroh before about zuko and knows theres good in him
It's entirely possible. I don't fully recall this interaction, but it would definitely color Toph's perception of Zuko differently from Aang, Katara, and Sokka, all 3 of whom have had a longer time dealing with Zuko as an antagonist and would not be quick to just forgive him
Reminder: Angela is not dead
She’s trapped in there forever
Which is so much worse
oof
I think why catra only had to say I’m sorry is because she and adora already had a connection
You mean a very unhealthy relationship ? That's precisely why Catra's redemption arc is, to me, one of, if not the worst I've seen so far.
@@uMaud And for some reason people over look how toxic the relationship is and how horrible Catra is because they’re gay.
@@cartoonking1789
Usually, you only see this sort of couple in fanfictions written by 13 year olds obsessed with yaoi's and yuri's, not in professional shows written by adults. 😬
she didn’t just have to say i’m sorry. she sacrificed herself to save glimmer for adora. it was by no means just an apology
@@cartoonking1789 catra wasn’t a horrible person. did you not watch the way shadow weaver treated her her whole life? of course she would do bad things. she had no love except adora her whole life.
I think a key reason Zuko's redemption arc works is because unlike A LOT of redemption arcs, it is totally consistent with his character because it is something the writers totally meant to happen from the start. Zuko was written as a sympathetic villain before he changes sides. This isn't the case of a bad guy who the writers randomly made switch sides because he got too popular (see Spike from BTVS)
I feel you misunderstand the theme of Infinity Train's third season. Explanation below
Simon didn't get redeemed because he was "beyond redemption" and that was NOT the lesson of the season, Grace did nearly "Everything" he did bar his attempt to take over the Apex and final attempt to murder her, which he was extremely torn up about. Remember Grace come up with wheeling nulls herself and wanted to wheel Tuba herself for the first half.
Then there's Amelia who did multiple murders and tortures as ''Fully Grown'' Adult knowing denizens were people for THIRTY years! Simon and Grace were children when they got on the train, meaning
No, Simon didn't get redeemed because he was frightened of the truth that he and the significant other he grew up with, had been living a lie for half their lives. Thus he doubled down living the lie and rejected the attempts to help him under the belief that this was the only life he could live. He died in his misery and death means there's no chance for redemption.
The writers have directly said the tragedy of season 3 was Simon was NEVER too far gone, even when all the numbers covered him, it was showing how much of a toll was on Simon's mind from trying to kill the one person he could confide in and thus burning the last bridge connected to his lonely island.
Ghoms are also a suicide metaphor and its on coincidence that Simon is killed by one right at his rock bottom. The writers have said the tragedy as Simon "deserved" redemption, but life isn't always fair and deserving redemption doesn't mean it'll come to you if you put off improvement.
TLDR: Simon wasn't irredeemable at any point of the series. He didn't get redeemed because he rejected the attempts to help his pain and then died, preventing any improvement.
Basically you can always change, not only when your a teenager like Simon, but a senior like Amelia. However taking too long with your decisions can result in your life being snuffed out before you get another chance.
Hope that was helpful.
People not seeing where Catra’s arc was headed still shocks me to this day. She-ra was many things, but ‘subtle with its themes’ wasn’t one of them. With regard to the horde, the theme was established early on: that those born into an abusive system will grow up to recreate that system if not helped from the outside to overcome it.
.
That’s why season 4 bent over backwards to show the similarities between Catra and Hordak. They were both at different stages of travel down the same dark path, and their only hope of escaping it was in trusting the bonds they formed with others. By the logic of She-ra, the only fully irredeemable character was horde prime.
That doesn’t makes them sympathetic IHO.
@@cartoonking1789 that’s a personal value judgement, so I can’t really argue against it. The point where a character becomes unforgivable/sympathetic varies pretty wildly from person to person.
I’m not really making a statement about whether they’re sympathetic or not, I’m expressing disbelief at how many people assumed Catra was going to die/be shunned by the end. Whether you ‘liked’ the idea of her redemption or not, the show made it obvious that was their plan from basically the start.
Cause it was just too late
She decimated all the kingdoms and caused their weak defense against horde prime
By the end shes not really acknowledged nor reflected on those things, just adora good side
Basically she rarely does for anyone besides someone she has a personal investment to than not
@@gbdeck200 A fair way to feel. I think a big issue with the discourse around Catra and Hordak is that people assume they’re redeemed by the end of the series.
“After everything they did in the series, she pals around with her girlfriend and they help solve a problem they themselves caused, and that’s it: they’re redeemed!?”
...and no... that’s not it. Defeating Shadow Weaver/Horde prime isn’t the point that these characters are redeemed. It’s they point where they’ve finally self-actualized.
It’s an important distinction, because self actualization is the point where an attempt to redeem oneself ‘starts’ not ends. It will be how they compose themselves in the years following the battle, accepting punishment for their wrongs and attempting to undo the damage they’ve committed their lives to inflicting, that will decide whether they’re redeemed or not.
It wasn’t really shock that Catra was redeemed for me as it was confusion at how they glossed over some of her worse aspects to make the redemption happen. This made Catra’s switch from villain to good guy feel rushed and hollow.
I think Catra's redemption arc kicks off at the end of season four when double trouble calls her out, without her one goal of reaching the top and being the most powerful clouding her vision she really starts seeing what she's done clearly. We see in Corridors that Catra is looking back on her childhood with Adora and while I think the message of that is partly Adora's "I'm always gonna be your friend" I think also a big part of it is Catra seeing that even then she was horrible to Adora when Adora was trying to help her. That's when she saves Glimmer "I want to do that one good thing in my life" Catra knows at this point that she has been a horrible person and done horrible things, and she wants to stop, however we have seen in the past and continue to see that Catra, even though she tries to hide it, Is very devaluing of herself and has somewhat of an inferiority complex, probably stemming largely from her traumatic childhood. So in short Catra wants to stop doing what she's been doing and be better but she doesn't believe she can, she has given up on herself. So she saves Glimmer, fully expecting to die a horrible person who did one good thing, who no one cares about. But she doesn't die, Adora comes back for her, showing that even though Catra has given up on herself Adora hasn't given up on her and Adora cares, Which is what really drives Catra to not just try to do a good thing but to try to be a better person, because Adora believes she can. I have seen criticism of this saying that "It's not a real redemption arc because she needed other people to help her with it! she needs to do it on her own!" but I think that that's actually part of what makes it good, it's believable. Let's be honest no human being, especially no human being who had been through as much as Catra had and who had spiraled as far would be able to improve totally on their own, we would all need someone external to help us, And Catra finally having that person allows her to allow herself to be better and that's why her redemption works so well in my opinion. Thank you for coming to my very long very dramatic Ted talk.
I LOVE your point that redemption requires outside help. Like the character for sure needs to make steps towards redemption themselves but having support is also so important.
@@tallswordlady6642 thank you! great video :)
i think a lot of people miss this but she saved glimmer at the end of season 4. horde prime was about to kill glimmer but catra stepped in and stopped him. even though in her mind glimmer was the one who took adora away from her, she still saved her. it wasn’t as heroic as the time she saved glimmer in season 5, because unlike season 5 she did risk her life to do it, but it was still a good thing she did
It just happens to fast, like the characters are too quick to forgive. It's not that I want the other princesses to give up on her, I want to hear them to say to Catra *"I, don't know if I can full forgive you... Maybe I just need more time"*
finally, someone who says something good about RWBY. while I'm not sure if I would count Weiss as a redemption (not the villain after all) I do agree with everything you said.
Also Greed from FMAB totally counts as a redemption arc
The thing with Anton Ego is that I’m not quite certain that he was redeemed since he was never fully evil. Sure he was very egotistical but he still appreciated fine food and didn’t do anything to deliberately harm Linguini, Remi, or any of the characters (unlike Chef Skinner). Hell, Ego’s even willing to give Gusteau’s another chance just by showing up to write a new review after hearing the positive buzz around the restaurant. When he eats the Ratatouille and writes the positive review, he was proven wrong and given new perspective in the word of food, but not necessarily redeemed.
Something else with Toph with why it makes sense that she would forgive Zuko first is because she also had that talk with Iroh where he talked abt Zuko. She didn’t know he was talking abt Zuko but she got to know him on a personal level and see him as a lost and hurt guy rather than an enemy. I think that talk also helped the viewers understand Zuko more as well
While Catra ticks all the boxes 4 a redemption arc, I actually think her journey was more about her transformation & finding herself. And I don’t believe it came down 2 her just saying sorry & doing 1 big sacrifice 4 her 2 earn the right 2 redeem herself.
Adora had known Catra 17 YEARS b4 they ended up on opposite sides. She never believed Catra was truly evil & Catra’s act in saving Glimmer PROVED this.
This also leads into 1 of the most amazing moments in the season (which also parallels an almost identical moment with Zuko & Iroh - Adora unconditionally forgiving Catra without a 2nd thought, with nothing else needing 2 b said. 😭
I know forgiveness is often shown 2 take time but when it’s done right, there’s a poignant beauty when a person unhesitatingly forgives another purely out of their love 4 them. 💞
The Owl House redemption arc seems to be more of a Golden Guard thing(know this vid was posted pre season 2)
But I think he is going to be a more tragic redemption than Zuko. To me he´ll end up like Terra or Shadow Weaver
Something about his desperation as of s2e9 in his need to help Belos augurs some really dark future for him
He is not going to have a happy ever after
It's a Disney kid's show. He's starting to be sympathetic, so he'll live long enough to join the heroes. Probably gonna pick up another couple of scars though...
You would love the redemption arcs in My hero Academia. Bakugo starts out as a crappy bully trying to be a hero for the wrong reasons and as the series goes on, he actually becomes a true hero.
Man, you're forgetting the real redemption arc: Endeavor's
Nah, Bakugou sucks and the narrative reallly likes to lick his ass. The real redemption arc is Endeavor's.
I understand your points about Weiss and I agree that she had a well earned arc but I don't see it as a redemption arc necessarily. She's blinded by her family's propaganda and heading down that path when we first meat her but she's never done anything actively bad as far as we know. Throughout the show she becomes a better person and eventually denounces her father, but she was never actively evil. I don't know if that makes any sense but that's how I see it.
"Bulma, Trunks, I do this for you. And yes, even you, Kakarot."
4:17 from a tactical standpoint yes & I’m not excusing that, tho I think Hordak did all the actual killing with that laser cannon of his 💥
And the Rebellion seemed to oddly emphasise how they recovered EVERY person from the towns they went on rescue missions to 🤔
Yet even with Salineas in shambles, Sea Hawk still took Bow out to Seaworthy (a town WITHIN Mermista’s kingdom) for some fun despite the invasion currently happening within the region! 🙄
Also, when the princesses got their power ups in Destiny Part II, I’m inclined to believe that the princesses did as much killing of the Horde as the Horde did with the Salineas invasion (especially Mermista with that mega whirlpool she did but she’d have a vengeance mindset at that point)
This would b important to emphasise that killing happens on BOTH sides in a war - not just the side of ‘evil’.
This content is very original and entretaining,im surprised you dont have more subs,keep up the good work
agreed
I started with the She-Ra fashion ranking an hour ago and now I'm hooked
God I relate so much to hating Catra until season 5 lmao. I still don’t really like her to be honest. It’s so easy to forget she’s an actual war criminal just cuz she’s “uwu cute kitty cat🥺”. I wish the writers didn’t make her literally evil in seasons 2-4, then her redemption would’ve felt more realistic imo. I do love how she had to lose everything to finally realize that SHE’S the problem though, that was so well written
Scorpia gets a better redemption arc than her because we the viewers are shown Scorpia’s humanity time after time. Catra shows no mercy to dozens of characters and tries to kill them. Idk bro. No hate to Catra Lovers but I just don’t feel comfortable with her being redeemed in the end. Especially getting with Adora who she tried to kill multiple times😳
I really hope we see Sasha Waybright and Captain Grime from Amphibia get redemption.
YES YES YES YES YES
I need a Sasha and Grime redemption more than... well, food, emotional stability, shelter, canon Lumity, and possibly oxygen
@@stephenfong1144 well we got our wish!!! 🥹🎉
Well good news if you finished Amphibia season 3!!
@@stephenfong1144 Well do I have Great news for you!! 🥹💕🎉They’re good guys now (or anti heroes) take your pick.
one of my fave redemptions was ventress' from the clone wars. she never redeemed herself to the main trio but she was still able to help the heroes (ahsoka). we saw more about her past and how she ended up the way she did and the way dooku was able manipulate her after her trauma. she stood up against him in the end. her redemption never was completed becuse she chose not to redeem herself to the heros she chose to redeem herself to herself
13:12: Whoa?! Is that Lukas from Minecraft: Story Mode?! It really pleasingly surprises me to see a character from that game in these kinds of videos (those of analyzing writing from media) because pretty much no one talks about the writing of the game regarding the characters or the plot, even less analyzes it-well I know that you didn’t mention anything about him, but still, it’s nice to see that people are recognizing writing elements or tropes in that game. And honestly, yes, I think Lukas was the most developed character in the game (at least through episodes 1-4 of 1st season) and he’s my favorite character. Thank you for mentioning him in the video. Mentions of this game are nearly impossible to find.
Redemption is also cool because you get all the sexy cool aspects of the villain with none of the guilt that comes with liking them 😌
Omg yess
Just here to say you have a new sub. Your content is great. Also i wish you could talk about other She-Ra villains and what you think about their redemptions and arcs
Thank you! And I have lots of hot takes for She Ra villains that I definitely want to go more into in the future!!
I’ve always just loved how they did Zuko redemption arc it was the perfect battle between good and evil. They really got down the conflict in himself when he was good sometimes and when he was bad he was confused or lost. I also loved how they always tend to show one side of his face in this moments and then switch to the side with the scar truely showing that there was two sides of him and one of them was just looking to be healed. Truely one of the best redemption arcs in history, and for so many more reasons. Zuko is awesome :)
I also love how uncle iroh was apart of it to bring so many light and dark metaphors into the show to help with it and that he stayed the whole way he truly helped his journey.
Just a small note on Gaara, his redemption was a little different from most, he was actively pushed by both the people around him, and the demon within him to kill, and everyone around him just kinda got used to that, to the point where he was closer to a weapon you aim at your target and hope you don't get caught in it. This kind of treatment (Plus family trauma) led to him falling in to what the demon wanted.
While you only see him a couple of times before he's a fully fledged ally and friend, you see that his redemption was less about him making things right, but more fighting against everything he was taught, which led to him caring about the village who abused him, and therefore redeeming him.
So it was less of a usual redemption and more of a rebellion from the one who made his life hell
I really like in Zuko Alone he considered robbing the couple we meet at the Serpent's pass but seeing that the wife was pregment he immediately dropped the idea and later he tried to live a somewhat peacful life in a small earth kingdom village but sacrificed that by using his fire to save a kid he was starting to see as a younger brother from fake soilders who were going to draft him inspite the fact that he wasn't even a teenager
The most important part to a well-written redemption is that the character fights for it.
wanna watch this but also haven’t seen the owl house. ..but..must..support..small.creators!!!so algorithm comment!!!ill come back to watch this
Infinity Train is such a good and underrated show.
I think one thing that separates some redemption arcs from others is whether they complete by the end of the show. I think characters like Catra start their redemption arc, but don’t actually finish it. It’s totally fine for shows to do that, but it’s important for it to recognize that becoming good isn’t redemption. Redemption is the combination of a change in heart and making up for past transgressions. Catra starts her redemption in season 5 and makes good progress. She’s clearly well on her way to full redemption by the end, but I don’t think it was complete. Catra didn’t really make amends with Glimmer, and Glimmer is arguably the one she did the most damage to with Angela’s death. Glimmer is fine with Catra by the end, but Catra never even talks to Glimmer about Angela.
Contrasting this, Zuko has a complete redemption arc. He makes amends with every member of team avatar, ye, but that isn’t when his redemption is complete. His redemption is complete when he goes to visit Iroh. As much wrong as he did against team Avatar, I think his betrayal of Iroh was the biggest thing he did wrong. Him changing to become more like Iroh encouraged him to be and finally asking Iroh for forgiveness for his betrayal is what completes the arc. He has no more loose ends at that point.
They actually planned on bringing Angelle back, but couldn't because of time. Had they done that, it would've prolly been a complete redemption.
I think you make a great point about Zuko's redemption and Iroh, since the 2 do go hand-in-hand. I have always considered Iroh to be the biggest positive influence on Zuko and had the most impact on what ultimately cased Zuko to change: it was through Iroh that Zuko was able to start to think about what he truly wanted and the kind of person he should be. It's legitimately one of the most emotional scenes in the entire series to see Zuko finally return to Iroh at the end to ask for his uncle's forgiveness, and it showed how much the 2 of them mean to one another by the story's conclusion
I'm very Confident Sasha Waybright will have a great Redemption arc.
Well do I have Great news for you!! 🥹💕🎉They’re good guys now (or anti heroes) take your pick.
3:32, that and the fact that Zuko betrayed Katara after she showed him compassion in season 2.
Your video suddenly popped up on my recommended. And I'm really glad it did. I love the examples shown and the explanations which make it very understandable. I can't wait to check out your other videos! :D
Jinx and Zuko were like the original redemption arcs of my childhood I write a lot of characters that tend to reflect them in some ways because both characters and their progression and reasons for being how they were stuck with me as a kid. I feel like Shadow and Rouge (while game characters more so than animation) fall in this camp too. Our first introduction to them was as antagonists joining up with the evil eggman for their own completely different self serving goals but during their big era with Sonic X and the Game Cube games we see them slowly over time aligning with thrue good they're more tritagonists than true "redeemed heroes" but we get to see their moral compass typically shifts with aligning to good and protecting others beyond their personal goals and they become more "morally grey" than evil I think Peridot and Lapis were redeemed kinda similarly to Garra both genuinely struggle with adjusting to life that was different than what they always knew they kept mistepping and hurting the others and feeling like they were irredeemable or didn't fit in and they just kept coming back and standing up for the fact they enjoyed having freedom and diversity in the life around them and that everyone should get to enjoy that seem freedom and have that ability to coexist with everything and appreciate it in ways they never had before, and by the end they were the ones standing by the side of their former "enemies" helping to try to lift them up the most when they were at their lowest
Hot take: Zuko was never redeemed, same as Soren. They were good people who lost their inner selves, or like Zuko puts it, their drive, their fire. They believed in lies, went through a negative change arc. Zuko's lie was "must capture the avatar to restore honor" and the whole fire nation "might makes right". Soren is "Dad knows best, he has my best interest at heart"
this is a valid take
I’m personally very confident about Amphibia Sasha Waybright and Captain Grime’s redemption in Season 3. God I NEED to see more of Sasha and Grime, and Marcy in Season 3 second half.
Catra didnt earn it is the problem
By the end of the show everyone lost their homes and families, attacked then by prime and barely survived mind r#ped trauma because of her (lost magic by glimmer using light hope didnt help)
But a episode later on adora lap, one good action as said doesnt atone
Thank the Algorithm for bringing me to this channel! I look forward to more!
My personal favorite villain redemption from a kid's show is Impmon from Digimon Tamers. As a villain, he murders a digimon in front of its own human child (a girl named Jeri) which traumatizes that kid for the rest of the season. And when he comes to regret his actions and decides to become good...and the heroes reject him. And he doesn't expect them to forgive him anyway.
All he cares about is saving Jeri, the girl he hurt. The scene where he tries to get her to take his hand to escape and Jeri refuses him despite all the tortue she's currently going through? Heartwrenching. The idea of someone trying to be a good guy, being rejected by their peers, ultimately failing to do their "one good deed" of redemption but still continuing to try to be a better person? THAT's something that sticks with you.
I like how you pointed out how redemption works differently in anime. In Dragonball Z, Vegeta is considered one of the good guys after his redemption arc and it’s totally forgotten that he committed multiple acts of genocide!
While I do agree that Amity had a redemption, Amity wasn't that bad to begin with. Yea to Willow she was pretty rude, though I personally think that what she said to Willow at the start of I Was A Teenage Abomination was just extremely passive aggressive, every time she and Luz were on screen I say that Amity was pretty justified in how she acted around Luz because every time Luz was involved Amity got in trouble or embarrassed.
This is why I hope that Boscha gets a redemption if not in the second half of Season 2 then hopefully in Season 3 because unlike Amity, Boscha was actually pretty bad with a similar parental situation, refer to Dana's Reddit AMAs as she has mentioned Boscha's parents being similar to Amity's with also having a rivalry with Amity's parents that they have live on through the achievements of their children. Though considering that Lilith's redemption didn't really go as far as she realizing what she put Eda through and Eda kinda just teasing her for borderline ruining her life. And Mattholomule's redemption... I'm gonna be honest I didn't pay much attention to that because I barely even processed what was going on during Gus's side of that episode.
“Some redemptions really hurt don’t they”
Me: **cries in Hugo**
I dont think Amity had a redemption arc, more of a natural character development and self discovery.
I feel u on that comment at the end about kipo
I want to know that I can change for the better. That I can and will stop hurting those around me, and be a brighter person in this already terrible world.
I don't care for redemption arcs. I can tell at a glance the scrappy young villain with a tragic past that will be redeemed, or the stuffy evil old white man who were totally cool seeing as the big bad through and through. Is there one of these shows where there's a reversal,or a variation, or hell, even where the redeemed still feel like the same character we loved as a villain (The good place is actually a great example for michael).
I'm going to be honest with you here, I clicked just to see what you'd say about Soren's redemption arc 😃-
the video i wanted to watch but didn't even know how to find. it's the first video of yours i watch and i am very impressed by your subs amount, but as i like to say: quantity doesn't define quality.
really good and enjoyable video, you are an awesome tall lady with a sword
This really made my day- thank you! 🥺
As an avid FMA Brotherhood enjoyer, I 100% agree on Greed's redemption :D
For me at least Arthur Morgan had the most beautiful form of redemption arc if you had the good ending.
He hated himself but still cared for others, he did awful things because he loved his gang but when he realized that he's been a bad man all his life he turned the other way, he started worrying about the kids and others, he seeked to atone for his actions against an ill man, he didn't ask for forgiveness, he didn't see it that way, especially after what had Dutch told him, for him, he wanted to atone for his sins, his last actions were reminiscent of a man who fought against himself to be better, his fight with Micah feels like him confronting his demons, he maybe strong but he was weakened by the coward, throwing men after men and fighting him only after he's down yet still persistent, his speech about giving Dutch all he could was heartbreaking.
Yet he still had some fight in him, He wanted to redeem himself somehow, even if it meant dying.
People show their true colors when they're about to die so when Arthur did that, He wasn't an outlaw anymore, He was a man who provided for his second family, the bond they shared was special to him and that helped him kept on going, it's even worse when he was entirely disowned by Dutch because of Micah. He gave all he had but asked nothing in return.
M favourite redemption arc is Diotior from UK Robot Wars, literal joke competitor, slow, couldn't self right, flammable, weak weaponry. Never made it past round 2 of the heats, often never got past round 1. In Season 5 it came up against the rank 2 robot, Tornado, and it beat it. One of the strongest robots in the show couldn't beat this slow moving, weak, _flammable_ machine.
It got eliminated the very next round, but boy was it triumphant when the series favourite got knocked out by a joke bot.
Why does nobody talk about Weiss in the comments?! SHE IS BEST GIRL
Facts!
Redemption arcs need one thing to work: it's their choice.
4:14 in the 1st couple of seasons of the show the characters mentioned death in the time of the 1st formation of the Alliance. But strangely enough, we always c the characters from the Rebellion manage 2 save EVERY SINGLE PERSON whenever the Horde raids a Princess’ Kingdom or town - even during the fall of Salineas in season 4. Hordak was the one shooting the cannon, so I f anyone killed people directly, it would b him.
So while I can believe Catra helped invade & destroy towns, I can’t say 4 certain I believe she ever intentionally killed anyone directly.
And you COULD argue that the Rebellion killed just as many Horde soldiers in retaliation. If THAT were the case u couldn’t really say that either side didn’t have blood on their hands.
I admit Catra IS indirectly responsible 4 Angella being trapped in dimensional limbo (the characters NEVER said the words death or died with her!) & with Angella being immortal that arguably makes it worse.
In fact, Noelle’s crew originally wanted 2 bring Angella back in season 5 but ran out of time within the season. But it IS a very real possibility should we ever get a She-Ra movie &/or epilogue season.
It's war... Both sides believe what they're doing is right and people get killed... Sure maybe the rebellion has "higher morals" but for how long they stayed alive in this war they absolutly had to kill people...
Also we never see like horde soldiers being held captive like a big prison for them or something... Which means they're probably dead
No mention of vegeta is a crime
All my favorite shows :)
SPOILERS FOR KIPO AND THE AGE OF WONDERBEASTS AHEAD!!!!
What about Scarlemagne from Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts? I thought he had a good redemption arc over season three (and kinda half of season 2)
1:50, exactly. Needs to feel organic and drawn out.
10:49 That's rough buddies
What about Peridot from Steven Universe?
She was amazing
One of the only great things that came out of that show. I nowadays despise SU, but Peridot is an incredible thing from a bad show that had a lot of potential.
TallSwordLady just curious but do u think Hordak went thru any type of redemption? or a lack of 1 like Shadow Weaver?
I don’t think he was redeemed at all but I also don’t think he got the shadow weaver “atonement” situation either. As much as I love the show I wish he had to face consequences of his actions and he didn’t :(
Well, at least Noelle said she pictured Hordak going back 2 Beast Island with Entrapta 2 clean it up as part of his ‘Lifelong community service to Etheria’
Thinking about Peridot’s (Steven Universe) redemption arc✌🏻😔
Also, as we're talking about side character redemptions, can we talk about Peridot from Steven Universe? For a show that sucked at redeeming bad guys, Peridot is the only exception.
Like a lot of well redeemed characters, Peridot had to face the consequences of her actions and change her behaviour for her own morals and beliefs. She had to stop treating Pearl like a servant and lower than her, she had to stop treating Garnet as a sinful abomination and Amethyst as a defect. Steven was the only person who liked Peridot, the others gave her a fair share of punishment. Amethyst got visibly upset and mad at Peridot's rude comments, Garnet tied her up (which I don't appreciate tbh, especially since Peridot is confirmed to be autistic and for some reason, this always happens to autistic characters), and Pearl literally punched her in the face.
Peridot had to utilise her time well while stuck on earth and she came to appreciate and learn so many new things that homeworld did not teach her. She didn't change for any of the characters she got attached to; she changed for the planet she got attached to, because she realized that destroying the earth was wrong.
Keep it up!
13:50 yes, they do.
I agree that we have different standards regarding what we view as redeemable in fiction vs. reality. For example, Sunset Shimmer from My Little Pony: Equestria Girls (whose redemption arc I love) turned into a demon, mind controlled a ton of people to do her bidding in an attempt of world domination, damaged a school building, and tried to kill the main character. If this happened in reality then obviously such acts would not be considered as forgivable as they are in the cartoon. The difference is, however, that Sunset actually feels true remorse for what she did and decides to become a better person for the sake of herself and a desire to have friends whom she actually deserves to be with, not to hook up with someone she spent her life abusing, like Catra. That being said, I don’t feel that Catra’s sacrifice made up for what she did, especially since she did it for the wrong reasons, and afterwards she didn’t change her behavior. Meanwhile, Sunset actually made up for the bad things she did by fixing the school and making amends with the all people she mind controlled through the power of friendship and kindness. She changed her behavior and properly earned the forgiveness and trust of her peers, all within one single movie that’s only an hour and a half. This is why I don’t buy the excuses people give that She-Ra simply needed more time to improve Catra’s redemption. The show didn’t need more time, it needed better writers working on it.
Out of all the characters on the screen cap, I know 6 of them and I’m not sure flynn or Weiss needed redemption arcs cause they weren’t necessarily in the route for one? Unlike zuko and catra
I want to see a backwards redemption arc where a good guy turns bad
Professor Venomous from OK K.O. has this arc
Soarin my beloved
redemption arc pog
God I love Gurren Lagann
Catra’s redemption arc felt pretty forced and rushed to me. 🙄 Like she was a villain for so long, I had a hard time believing that she’s a good person underneath. She had so many opportunities to better herself and/or get power without becoming evil; If only they start redeeming her earlier, like in season 3 and it was paced well, her being better would’ve work out fine. Cuz, I’m getting sick and tired of genocidal villains getting a pass, just because they we’re misunderstood and/or they had a sad backstory.
I think the Fire Nation comparing to the United States doesn't really make much sense as the United States doesn't follow the same paths of thinking that it's the best country and sharing its strengths with the rest of the world is justifiable to a war. The United States has always acted as a defender for other countries, an example being how the US saved all of Europe from the Nazis during ww2. That being said, I'd say Nazi Germany was the most comparable real world country in recent history to the Fire Nation
yes it here last I looked it was demonotized
What on earth are you even trying to say.
13:10 what's that character on the bottom left?
13:04
For Alex from SDV, I personally wouldn't count it as a redemption, as it's extremely fragile and can only occur under very specific playing circumstances. Because SDV is such a chill game, and your interactions with most characters are quite realistic, the standards for behaviour are much more regular, so (if you play as a female) meeting this stuck up, nostalgic jock who's immediately misogynistic and snobby is a true impression of him, as not many people have redemption arcs irl. And, as I mentioned, there are only certain game routes that you pursue that end up with Alex being even barely decent.
As I'm sure you can tell, I have a fair few opinions about Alex.
As of now, bakugou from bnha has a pretty legit redemption arc aswell 😀🙏
Really proud of him
My favorite redemption arcs would have to be besides Zuko: Hawk fr Cobra Kai, Soren from Dragon Prince and Grace from Infinity train.
SU sucks at every redemption arc becoz the show keeps focusing on the mc
5:50 how was Terra going 2 die either way? I thought she made a genuine sacrifice out of choice, not circumstance 🤷♀️
I could be wrong but my thought was that the lava was gonna kill them all anyway! But cartoon physics are different than real life 😂
I still hate Terra she a traitor.
What about the green dorito rock?
You should have included spike from buffy
I really lost a lot of respect for Weiss when she pulled a rapier at her brother. Who is not only a child, but under the same circumstances as her (an abusive father and alcoholic/neglectful mother), but while she had her sister, no one was there for Whitley. And my problem is less that she did that as a character, it’s that the show completely glosses it over and completely ignores the fact the Weiss is being a COMPLETE and utter scumbag. And she only forgives him when he calls the doctor, only when he serves a functional purpose to her and her friends wants. So she is punishing him for acting out of line at all, and rewarding him for appealing to her. Which is exactly what an abuser does, treat the victim like a pet. Which would actually be a decent plot point if the show would take a second to call her out on it. But no, just like 100s of other points, it’s left to the wayside. Which is really depressing to say about a show I love. Because, sword lasers and Qrow.
About Amity, I think the mean girl act is a facade taught to her by her mother as an act to stay on top. Which is quite on brand with Odalia. True redemption would likely be her rejecting her mother or family as a whole to break the chains of abuse she suffered. And would completely drop the act to be herself. But of course, this would have to happen slowly. But I think Luz would definitely be able to help her with that. Even though she’s already made a start.
I wish Chloe could improve, but the creator of miraculous is stuck in that mentality of "OnCe A bUlLy, AlWayS a BuLlY". I low-key think that he's been akumatized at one point.
so I really like yugioh, but I feel like it really pushed some (spoilers for yugioh btw) insanely unearned redemption arcs, I don't think it was a big problem in the duelist manga, mainly because one of the characters that got redeemed(?) in the anime was killed in the manga, and then all the filler arcs had their villains be redeemed, so really only one character was originally redeemed in the first place. But that redemption wasn't even an arc, he was just damseled by a badder villain and then I guess he died a little inside and kinda just went with it. He's literally one of my favorite characters and they just had to suck the life out of him because they didn't know how to make a in-character redemption arc in that short of a time before the next arc started. (I'm talking about Marik/Malik btw) And I'm not saying he didn't deserve a redemption arc, there was no way he wouldn't be redeemed in the end, but DUDE HE WAS SO FUN UGHHGgh. I don't accept that as canon. I guess the spinoff series' do that too? idk I'm on 5DS rn. I think Yusuke Fujiwara's redemption arc was so funny because he's one of those characters that was a friend of an important character before he became evil and then gets redeemed and stuff, but, like, it was speedran. They gave him two episodes? Two card games and that was it. He had to establish his motivation, backstory, redemption, and past with the other established characters in that short of a time. And his motivation and backstory was done really well! But why was his redemption like that? "hey we told you this darkness stuff was bad for ya, it's trying to possess you now -_-" "oh dang *stops being evil*" It was so jarring, he's still one of my favs though.
And then there is Sasuke from Naruto, who was just forgiven of his crimes because he was the protagonist "friend".
Where’s Peridot from Steven universe?
Catra did end the world
... glimmer also did almost end the world too:)
@emily.c518 Glimmer was trying to be a savior while Catra was trying to spite Adora though, that’s a big difference.
Meh, say what you want. I still think I live in a great country 🇺🇸 I can say what I want, do what I want, and be the product of my own personal growth, not the state. In my opinion, “There are no bad nations, only terrible rulers.”
Just saying, would the Fire Nation be evil if wisened old Uncle Iroh was the Firelord? I think not! ☕️
All nations have their fair share of shall we say baggage, but in the case of 🇺🇸 it's not only legally but socially acceptable to shit-talk them at every single opportunity. It's not that I don't agree with around half of it, but it gets exhausting.