Yes I forgot about the Eggman's badniks in the other pyramid levels holding animals inside of them, but I'll still believe in my heart those robots having animals was a reference to Gamma
If the E-1000s were hardcoded to always contain a bird, I’d have to agree with you. As is though, I’m pretty sure the only real reference is the design.
Great video but you never once mentioned what game this is from (I know it's SA but wasn't sure if it was 1 or 2). Good stuff though. Love super detailed videos about one topic like this haha
The spring on that pole that's impossible to hit is there because originally it was possible. In the DC version, the poles' collision type (the invisible shape surrounding the object that sonic collides with) was cylinder (flat top). The spring could be hit there. I guess the devs didn't like how Sonic could also walk on top of these things that shot fire, so they changed the collision type to capsule. The rounded top of this capsule collision covers the spring entirely, making it impossible to hit by any means.
You're doing your part in helping people realize that SA2 has aged a lot better than people give it credit for and is a shitload better than most games that came out after it
@@runningoncylinders3829 its hard for me to imagine why it WOULDN'T be someone's favorite sonic game tbh, the tone of the game was just so iconic and perfect for sonic and the gameplay and music are so damn good
@@ilovewallacebuthategromit I think it's understandable for someone to prefer the 2D gameplay style or the modern boost style over the Adventure games. They all have their own strengths, so it's ultimately just about personal preference. Each style has its own set of masterpieces and total flops too, so it's not like there's an explicit quality difference from the games of each style. You've got S3&K, but you've also got Knuckles Chaotix. You've got SA2, but you've also got Sonic '06. You've got Generations, but you've also got Forces. So I don't think there's really any "correct" answer for which gameplay style is the best.
@@spartanq7781 I'd argue that Generations comes close if only because of how fun it is to replay levels. If it had a good story it might've been on par with SA2.
The thing about the robot with the animal inside is that more or less all Badniks contain animals, be they in the classic series or those of the Adventure duology; that said, the DESIGN of the robot certainly seems to be a nod to Gamma and his brothers - they're even called E-1000
Yeah, it's the difference between robots made by GUN and robots made by Eggman. GUN may be evil, but they aren't animal abusers! Well, except for abusing Sonic & co.
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. All the robots you meet before that point are g.u.n models. And they aren't crazy enough to power their weapons with animals. 🤣
That makes sense! I remembered the badniks in Green Hill's level having animals and chalked that up as a Sonic 1 reference, but I forgot about places like Hidden Base containing animals too.
@@zoomzike It's easy to forget that Pyramid Cave has a four-way struggle going on basically, Sonic is fighting Eggman's robots, GUN, and the ghosts, but all of those should logically be against each other too. A shame we never see them actually clash.
I’m pretty sure the reason the robots have animals and not chaos drives is because they’re eggman robots as opposed to the GUN robots which are found throughout the majority of the game. iirc the monkeys in hidden base also dropped animals.
Yeah Eggman designs all of his badniks with flickies and the like inside. IIRC the E-Series line were some of the last and most advanced badniks Eggman ever made before he started to abandon the idea of using badniks in favor of the mass producible Egg Pawns, at least until he got the idea of using both Egg Pawns and Badniks.
@@ivy-envy Given that this is SA2, you're technically correct, but honestly saying that something gets an S-Rank is much cooler than saying it gets an A-Rank
I didn't know it was a Star Wars quote before looking up where it's from, but I instantly assumed it was from SW for some reason. It's just such a Star Wars thing to say, SW dialogues are pretty distinct like that.
I think it's really cool how even in the parts of SA2 that are meant to be easy and have basically no stakes there are little added challenges that reward players for experimenting with and mastering the mechanics. It's like a customizable difficulty-level was baked into the game itself rather than something you set in the "OPTIONS" menu.
Even the Rank system factors into this: if you just want to play the story, you can take it as easy as you need to, and restart from checkpoints, but to get an A rank, you need to prove that you can beat the level start to finish without dying, and can do it in style. This was actually the FIRST Sonic game to use specific Ranks for level score instead of just having Score be a holdover from the Arcade cabinet days of gaming
I am so glad someone else knows about the impossible spring. My guess is that it's so obscure no game tester ever found it to tell them it's impossible
Speepshighway commented that you can use the spring in the Dreamcast version. They changed the collision type on the poles and forgot to move the spring to compensate.
I love SA2's ranking system so much because it really lets the skill floor be kept low while incentivizing crazy stunts if you want a better rank. If you suck at the game, you absolutely _can_ just dash forward mindlessly in hopes of getting from point A to point B, but the ranking system encourages more skillful players to play stages in the way that's most fun, which in Pyramid Cave's case is doing stuff like jumping through as many hoops as possible while on a strict time limit!
i love these videos cause it really shows how good this game has aged, people act like the adventure games are overrated but i still think these titles really understood how to take sonic into 3d with great level design, and a sense of exploration and options in terms of movement thanks to the homming attack and spin dash, i really wish future sonic games bring back this type of gameplay and freedom to play the level how you please, instead of just boost to win
The main problem I see is, a lot of alternate paths feel like routes off to the side that at best give you a shortcut back onto the main path. I would love to see a more open design attempted,imagine something like Sonic Utopia but with actual goals in each direction you can take... or, just a bit more of a vertical, multi-path design like in the 2D games
@@hahasamian8010 I was thinking alternate paths that lead you to the same goal at the end. And that can also put you back on the main path some point in the level if you wanted.
They are not overrated. That's like saying Mario 64 is overrated, because that's what the adventure games were for Sonic. They are two of my all time favorite games and I believe they did a fantastic job bringing Sonic into 3D. I mean, before that we had Sonic 3D Blast...that was isometric, therefore not actually 3D. There was Sonic R...it didn't control very well. Sonic Extreme got cancelled...point is, compared to any of those, we got a Functional and more importantly, fun 3D Sonic game. I will never forget running through Emerald Coast for the first time! Young me's mind was absolutely blown. The beautiful graphics and sheer sense of speed! I will always love these games!
@@hahasamian8010 too much openness wouldn't allow for the focused level design that allows for mastery and really stylish movement, this ain't super mario 64, the ranking system wouldn't work in levels that are too open because it would have to account for so many things. The vertical path design is already in both sa2, heroes and generations you must be blind to not see it. It's especially evident with stuff like the egg fleet levels, power plant, final rush and chase, and seaside hill/speed highway modern.
It would've been cool if the little pyramids did something extremely absurd that doesn't happen in any other scenario (Like letting you play as Amy for the rest of the level, for example).
Definitely one of my favorite stages and themes in the game! Fave part is when the grind rails give you a view of outside and the other pyramids that Tails passed in the previous stage.
Really enjoying this look at some great levels in SA2 and the detailed mechanics, it's basically a tips/tricks guide + analysis + opportunity to geek out, all in one video. I think Sonic Team needs to revisit this stuff, along with having a bigger budget and more time.
@@MetalMania343 Are you daft? It's a joke. There are hoops in the level. Jumping through them gives you points. Points give you an A rank. Do you not know what the term "Jumping through hoops" means, or are you just gonna say "woosh" and pretend your idiocy is a joke that's both a fat lie, and unfunny?
This is the single best sonic stage in every way in my opinion. The immense rewards for exploration paired with the single coolest level to speedrun makes for an incredible stage all around. Also, your theory about the spring is correct; it works fine in the dreamcast version and ONLY the dreamcast version.
I disagree on the key section being that bad. It does add a challenge needing to move around with it and either dodging the robots. As a kid it threw me off at first but then I was relieved I was able to work within the limitations(and had the surprising abillity to trigger the hourglasses with jumps and throw the thing at enemies). It has a strangely endearing design and sound effects too, so I guess the intent is feeling satified to savely escort it. Depends on tastes though. It's something like Zelda games or slower platformers like mario 64 like to do a lot(the infamous mario 64 baby penguin). This kind of slower puzzle setpiece(adventure 1 also has oddly slow bits) seem to have been mostly dropped in games after this though.
I have to admit, all of the good design in this level was completely lost on me unlike the previous sonic levels. Perhaps the only thing that I understood about this level before is where to use bounce bracelet. I recall running up the sides and seeing the hoops but not seeing much point in trying to jump through them. I honestly didn't even know certain things increased your score until I started watching your videos. So I never understood how to get high ranks in sonic levels despite completing it as fast as possible. Learning a lot about a game over a decade after playing it. Great videos!
How do you not notice the score increase when you homing attack the item box inside the rings? Did you ignore it saying things like Cool or Awesome in the Treasure Hunting stages when you grabbed an emerald? Same for locking onto the enemies in the Shooting Stages.
In order to hit that spring, you have to unhook your GameCube, send it to me, then hook up your Dreamcast and a copy of SA2 for it. Then the spring will work just fine.
I'm so excited to look at another sa2 analysis. You've really opened my eyes to how these levels are constructed. I'm too busy racing to the end to notice anything. I'm definitely going to take my time the next time I decide to play
The pit at 4:20 I believe is a reference to how Egyption Pyramids had pits that graverobbers would fall down and be trapped. They'd spend the rest of their days with their stolen treasure unable to escape... Quite a dark reference actually Xd
I just thought of something. What if someone modified SA2 with the suggestions Zoomzike makes in these videos. Like the suggestion of the switch floating around you like omochao sounds really cool, and I would live to see that
I know from one of Failboat's videos that someone completely recreated Meteor Herd in A Hat in Time so I wouldn't be surprised if someone made an SA2 mod with all these things that zoomzike is suggesting.
Very intriguing and funny video. I really miss and adore the way adventure tied the level design with the mythology of Sonic. The echidnas and Chao hieroglyphics in Pyramid cave is another testament to the creativity of the original Sonic Team Level Designers
The impossible spring reminds me of the numerous impossible rings the game has to offer, such as at the end of Eggman's Sand Ocean where there's just a ring floating behind an invisible wall to the left of the goal ring. Likely the same reasoning lies in its existence: either mistakenly placed or it was initially attainable but later on in development they made changes that made it impossible and no one noticed.
@@MetaKaios Because a lot of these rings follow a logic that modders found out a long time ago. If an object is deleted but is forgotten to be removed from the object-list, it becomes a ring. That is why a bunch of these unoptainable rings replace big the cat. If the coordinates are also purged, they appear at the position (0,0), which is why a few rings exist in the ports that are worth a lot of them, it's leftovers stacked ontop of each other. The bigger exception is white jungle, where the unoptainable rings instead come from a beta-layout of green forest that was accidentially left in the stage.
@@lpfan4491 You're spot on LPFan, although I believe that the reason Big turned into rings is not because his object was deleted and thus became a ring, but rather because during the porting process of SA2 to SA2:B, someone changed the pointer from Big to rings to make it easier to port... and possibly forgot to turn it back or something like that.
I remember playing SA2 and being able to touch that spring, I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast version works fine, devs probably changed the collision for that pillar in later ports and didn't realize the mistake. Try testing on an emulator. I remember perfectly that I was able to touch that spring, trust me. Also the level after this one is Death Chamber, I would really love if you review that level, I personally think It's one of the best ones!
Oh wow, someone else who actually likes Death Chamber XD I feel it gets way too much hate from people simply because it's more enclosed than previous levels, but honestly it's pretty simple to navigate (a literal ring, in fact) and it being enclosed makes following the pings easy. The requirement for A-rank is also super generous at a mere 12,000.
@@Someguyhere111 Yes, the stage itself has a very good design, what make people don't like is when they are not paying attention to the map and hints. The requirement is 12000, you can even use all 9 hints and still get an A-rank
i would argue that not only is the key foreshadowed, with items such as the tires in City Escape, but also references how you can hold Chao in the garden
Most Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, & Rouge levels have stuff you can pick up like this. Security Hall has these boxes you can pick up (better done in 2P) what's even cooler is you can set them down on the moving platform & make them float in midair by having a player watch over them so they don't despawn while the other collects more. Dry Lagoon has these small barrels, Wild Canyon has the skulls of some animal laying around, Pumpkin Hill has pumpkins, Human Skulls can be dug up in several stages, Mad Space has an item that's a reference to Phantasy Star Online. Yes Chao use the same mechanics with you being able to pick up chao or things to give them & perform the same behaviors. You can also pick up Omochao & listen to his reactions. He also says things at random when you carry him on a spring, put him down, or throw him. He also has special lines for each Treasure Hunting & Sonic/Shadow Stage if you carry him when completing your mission. I'm not sure if he says anything if carried into a back ring though & it's speculated whether or not he says the quote if carrying him when walking into the last shard you need or clearing 2nd Missions. You can attack Omochao as any character (not counting mechless Shooters) at least to get various random reactions when he wakes up.
Sonic levels are intentionally designed to be easy to make it through but hard to make it through like a BADASS. The old games did this by making the player feel lame and move slowly if they were bad, but Adventure 2 had the best solution which was the ranking system. You CAN just walk through the first room of pyramid cave, but you might not get a cool A rank and be a cool guy. Also I said S rank the first time because I remembered wrong.
Yeah, adventure 2 and unleashed have the best ranking systems. It isn't about skipping the entire stage like generations, you have to interact with the stage in order to gather enough points.
My favorite rankingsystem is Unwiished, honestly. It IS purely timebased, but one has to either be super good at the game or interact with the stage to find shortcuts to get the S. The ranks are easy enough to get if one knows what to do(minus Eggman Land), but they still challenge the player to a good degree.
The music is one of my favourites For some reason I always thought that the lyrics had something to do with eggman for some reason due to the guitar rift or what ever it’s called
god i love these videos so much. you do this game so much justice. is SA2 level design just hallway simulators? yeah, but only if you want them to be. there's so much to seek out if youre just creative and observant enough.
also i love that swich puzzle you hate so much, sonics accelaration is a lot of fun whern holding it, and the challenge of avoiding multiples of easy enemies and challenges in a new context, its just awesome
Interestingly, the mysterious spring in the Dreamcast version of the game is actually accessible. Subsequent versions of SA2 would actually make dozens of changes like this from the original, including changes to lighting, textures, sounds and music, levels, objects, geometry, etc. Some of these changes are for worse and it’s hard to say if they were done intentionally during the conversion (although this is clearly unintentional), a lot of them might come from oversights during play testing and QA, but it’s just my guess.
5:10 I think a little context helps here: Most of the robots you destroy up to this point in the game are from GUN themselves, and last time I checked, the military in this universe wouldn't weaponize animals like Robotnik/Eggman would. So having this one along with some GUN machines is to show not only is GUN combating you in the levels, but also Eggman, who by this point in the story would have already infiltrated the pyramid and made his base of operations here. You can also see that from some of the surrounding decorations with Eggman-like faces on them, even over ancient ruins. If Sonic Adventure 1 is to have bearing on Sonic Adventure 2 (as some plot points carry over, like Eggman reading about Tails being awarded a Chaos Emerald by saving Station Square), then this Gamma robot is probably a clone of the one we played as in Sonic Adventure 1, in much the same way Eggman made clones of Shadow in Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog.
Holy hell dude these SA2 videos you have exploring the levels make love this game even more than I already did, like seriously almost half of the things you pointed out in this level are completely new to me and blew my mind. Grade A content on CZcams man, keep it up.
When I woke up this morning I was NOT expecting to watch a recomended almost 16 minute long video that goes in debth about Pyramid cave from SA2. And yet I LOVED it. You sir have a new subscriber.
You *cannot hit that spring* 🤯 it's an exclusive bug/coding mistake of the battle version of the game... This means you can hit the spring on the dreamcast version only
I will say that while I do love the continuity of Eggman's robots in this game being powered by animals, while G.U.N. robots are powered by Chaos Drives, it really was a missed opportunity to not have the mass produced E-100 robots be powered specifically by bird animals.
This level is probably the most fun to watch speedruns for. You get a ton of chances to exploit the super bounce and the best part is there's a skip that allows you to bypass doing that stupid key section. Unfortunately, I can't figure out exactly how to do it cause it looks like you just place yourself in a certain spot and spin dash your way to clip through a door.
Boy i'm part of that crowd that argues SA2 is not as linear as people say and like 80% of what i saw was entirely new I already love this stage for making the most with the running-in-walls tunnels and even the key section i like (in hard mode they got really creative with that section) but ZoomZike just made me love this stage even more And Keys the Ruin still slaps 20 years later
Damn, how long have I been subconsciously waiting for this? Love it! I'm working on 100%ing Adventure 2 on Steam (right now all As are done, and I just have Chao to do. I'm finishing with Last Story, then A Rank Cannon's Core, and then the Boss Rush for Last Story to finish off with a bang) and Pyramid Cave quickly jumped into my top 2/3 Sonic levels, right behind Final Rush as first. Can't wait for that video after Crazy Gadget!
These stage analysis videos are always a treat, I’d love to see you tackle some other sonic games after you’re done with SA2, only if you’re interested of course. Either way, you make some great content!
The allusion to an upcoming Crazy Gadget video has me at the edge of my seat, I'm really looking forward to that one! But of course this video itself is great too, I love the time you took to appreciate all of the wonderful small details put into this stage!
I think the purpose of the key sections (or any section in a game that takes away your abilities) is to get the player to think outside the box and force them to be creative and use their relatively limited resources to succeed. Personally, I enjoy chucking the key at the robots and throwing it in the slot at the apex of the ramp. But I will admit, it's the worst section of the level. (Also, I'm pretty sure Sonic's speed and acceleration are identical whether he's holding the key or not)
5:14 All the enemy badnicks in the pyramid levels drop animals instead of chaos drives; since it's Eggman's territory and not occupied by GUN (at least further in, you see the progression from GUN robots to Eggman's badnicks throughout Hidden Base)
Those item slot doors are the most annoying parts of the level. Good thing the first can be skipped with a high bounce since the wall isn't solid all the way up, and the second one can be clipped through with the right angle on a spin dash.
The robots in pyramid cave are Eggmans robots thats why they are powered by little animals. The rest of the robots you fight are GUN robots and they are powered by chaos drives.
Jamming out to a soundtrack that sounds like a straight banger while running through long corridors, jumping through hoops, running on loops, and escaping ghosts who are trying to hug you... What more could you ask for?
Another detail I love is that you can clearly see more of Eggman's influence appearing as you get further and further in. The earliest parts are the outskirts, mostly normal Pyramid artwork and what not, but going further and further starts replacing a lot of the natural features with Eggman decor like the flaming pillars and electronic lights.
i know ur gonna make more vids on this game but whenever u get to the chao's, i hope you make it a multiple part or just long af in general because when i went back and researched a lot about how to do breeding and even how to unlock certain shit and the differences between the game releases that shit is super crazy and full of depth and its not even apart of the actual story xD. it makes sense why i questioned a lot of things all the times ive replayed this on a new console/emulator throughout the years(considering this game and a dreamcast was my first non handheld console/game) sorry if im rambling too much but keep it up bro i love these vids
This is actually one of if not my favorite level. The secrets and use of speed are great. I LOVE the atmosphere and I love how it plays with the physics for skill test when trying to build score. I'm actually gonna disagree about the key challenge. its a challenge to get the key back fast as possible within the restricted controls and is something that can be zone very quickly if you play well. Fits the pyramid theme imo.
One thing I learned recently is that the pyramid section of the game takes place in Sandopolis, both start by the outside and then go on the inside and enemies such as the ghosts and golems. This would answer a huge continuity error of how there is a desert in San Fransisco and why does Eggman have a rocket in a pyramid. It’s because the real life Angel island was the inspiration for Sonic’s Angel island and (only confirmed in the Japanese version) Angel island permanently came back to Earth since chaos was neutralized which would also answer how rouge was able to steal the master emerald at the beginning of the game. Also I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned the hieroglyphs that show what looks like Sonic-esque people and Knuckles-esque people. In other levels the same sonic looking people are seen praising the master emerald in wild canyon and praising a chao in the secret area of death chamber. Following the Sonic is an alien theory (must watch imo) this implies that Sonic’s race gave the knuckles’ clan the master emerald and chao. Also in the king boom boo fight we see Sonic’s exact face on the wall in a very similar way to how sonic statues appear in hydrocity (they’re even in Sonic Mania). I love this theory since there’s a ton of evidence and hidden details for it that makes me appreciate the games up to SA2 than I did before
Something to consider about the key section is that, they actually do serve a minor narrative purpose. The key's aren't part of the pyramid normally, they have Eggman's symbol on it. In other words, I think it is supposed to evoke Eggman purposefully trying to slow Sonic down and annoying him.
Yes I forgot about the Eggman's badniks in the other pyramid levels holding animals inside of them, but I'll still believe in my heart those robots having animals was a reference to Gamma
If the E-1000s were hardcoded to always contain a bird, I’d have to agree with you. As is though, I’m pretty sure the only real reference is the design.
It must be Opposite Day, because ZoomZike learned something from his video that I already knew!
Great video but you never once mentioned what game this is from (I know it's SA but wasn't sure if it was 1 or 2). Good stuff though. Love super detailed videos about one topic like this haha
@@TeleporterDownIt’s… very clearly from SA2.
Sigh… Gun robots don’t run on animals like Eggman’s! Do I seriously have to explain that, it’s basic Sonic lore.
The spring on that pole that's impossible to hit is there because originally it was possible.
In the DC version, the poles' collision type (the invisible shape surrounding the object that sonic collides with) was cylinder (flat top). The spring could be hit there.
I guess the devs didn't like how Sonic could also walk on top of these things that shot fire, so they changed the collision type to capsule. The rounded top of this capsule collision covers the spring entirely, making it impossible to hit by any means.
I honestly never even knew about that spring until I watched this video.
There's also a camera in Final Egg that blocks a spring and drops you into a pit...
Another reason why Dreamcast is superior.
Ah, Speeps, answering every Sonic Adventure inquiry in the internet, as usual.
@@1993Southparkfan Neither did I, and I play the Dreamcast game!
You're doing your part in helping people realize that SA2 has aged a lot better than people give it credit for and is a shitload better than most games that came out after it
It's my fav Sonic game
@@runningoncylinders3829 Ah I see that you are one of culture as well. Honestly nothing comes close except for SA1.
@@runningoncylinders3829 its hard for me to imagine why it WOULDN'T be someone's favorite sonic game tbh, the tone of the game was just so iconic and perfect for sonic and the gameplay and music are so damn good
@@ilovewallacebuthategromit I think it's understandable for someone to prefer the 2D gameplay style or the modern boost style over the Adventure games. They all have their own strengths, so it's ultimately just about personal preference. Each style has its own set of masterpieces and total flops too, so it's not like there's an explicit quality difference from the games of each style. You've got S3&K, but you've also got Knuckles Chaotix. You've got SA2, but you've also got Sonic '06. You've got Generations, but you've also got Forces. So I don't think there's really any "correct" answer for which gameplay style is the best.
@@spartanq7781 I'd argue that Generations comes close if only because of how fun it is to replay levels. If it had a good story it might've been on par with SA2.
The thing about the robot with the animal inside is that more or less all Badniks contain animals, be they in the classic series or those of the Adventure duology; that said, the DESIGN of the robot certainly seems to be a nod to Gamma and his brothers - they're even called E-1000
Yeah, it's the difference between robots made by GUN and robots made by Eggman. GUN may be evil, but they aren't animal abusers! Well, except for abusing Sonic & co.
Even the monkeys that throw bombs in the level before this dropped animals. I believe they are called coconuts.
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. All the robots you meet before that point are g.u.n models. And they aren't crazy enough to power their weapons with animals. 🤣
That makes sense! I remembered the badniks in Green Hill's level having animals and chalked that up as a Sonic 1 reference, but I forgot about places like Hidden Base containing animals too.
@@zoomzike It's easy to forget that Pyramid Cave has a four-way struggle going on basically, Sonic is fighting Eggman's robots, GUN, and the ghosts, but all of those should logically be against each other too. A shame we never see them actually clash.
I’m pretty sure the reason the robots have animals and not chaos drives is because they’re eggman robots as opposed to the GUN robots which are found throughout the majority of the game. iirc the monkeys in hidden base also dropped animals.
True
That's fantastic point I never thought of.
Thank you for this comment, I was like, bruh what?
Yeah Eggman designs all of his badniks with flickies and the like inside. IIRC the E-Series line were some of the last and most advanced badniks Eggman ever made before he started to abandon the idea of using badniks in favor of the mass producible Egg Pawns, at least until he got the idea of using both Egg Pawns and Badniks.
@@Crow_Rising And then he inexplicably started using animals as a power source again despite building robots that no longer needed animal batteries.
1:00 "If you can't make this jump then you'll suffer from crazier gadgets ahead."
This scriptwriting gets an S-Rank from me.
You get it as well. Have a cookie. 🍪
don't you mean an a-rank?
@@ivy-envy Given that this is SA2, you're technically correct, but honestly saying that something gets an S-Rank is much cooler than saying it gets an A-Rank
@@demetriuskafkoulas5005 fair
@@demetriuskafkoulas5005 Chao get S-rank stats so that does indeed exist in SA2, so no one is really wrong here
*ZoomZike:* "Pyramid Cave Holds More Secrets Than Your Internet Search History"
*Me:* "Impossible. Perhaps the archives are incomplete."
Of course they’re incomplete! That’s the entire point of incognito mode!
I didn't know it was a Star Wars quote before looking up where it's from, but I instantly assumed it was from SW for some reason. It's just such a Star Wars thing to say, SW dialogues are pretty distinct like that.
*"WHO POSTED MY...?!"*
Aaaaaaaaaa. Yeah I know that’s impossible right now I have more things to say
12:30 evil fake spring REAL???? 😲
Its actually the pillar lol
Hello cybershell
Big Green dead?
Bruh the song for this level SLAPS, wait no, ALL OF THE SONGS IN THIS GAME SLAPS
My favorite of the instrumental themes in the game is Suitable Opponent.
Holy, that one can feel tense and pairs with such an iconic scene.
HERE I COME, ROUGHER THAN THE REST OF THEM!
hell ye bro Chao garden songs be bussin
@@hypersonicspeedgrov THE BEST OF THEM
Even the fricken character theme songs slap too
I think it's really cool how even in the parts of SA2 that are meant to be easy and have basically no stakes there are little added challenges that reward players for experimenting with and mastering the mechanics. It's like a customizable difficulty-level was baked into the game itself rather than something you set in the "OPTIONS" menu.
Even the Rank system factors into this: if you just want to play the story, you can take it as easy as you need to, and restart from checkpoints, but to get an A rank, you need to prove that you can beat the level start to finish without dying, and can do it in style. This was actually the FIRST Sonic game to use specific Ranks for level score instead of just having Score be a holdover from the Arcade cabinet days of gaming
I am so glad someone else knows about the impossible spring. My guess is that it's so obscure no game tester ever found it to tell them it's impossible
I’m pretty sure that’s an issue exclusive to the SA2 Battle version. The original on Dreamcast allows you to hit the spring.
@@Technonova323 yes
Interesting
Speepshighway commented that you can use the spring in the Dreamcast version. They changed the collision type on the poles and forgot to move the spring to compensate.
I love SA2's ranking system so much because it really lets the skill floor be kept low while incentivizing crazy stunts if you want a better rank. If you suck at the game, you absolutely _can_ just dash forward mindlessly in hopes of getting from point A to point B, but the ranking system encourages more skillful players to play stages in the way that's most fun, which in Pyramid Cave's case is doing stuff like jumping through as many hoops as possible while on a strict time limit!
Continuing with the whole: "Sonic ends the stage at the same exact lenght of the video" I see
Oh my god I only just realised this
i love these videos cause it really shows how good this game has aged, people act like the adventure games are overrated but i still think these titles really understood how to take sonic into 3d with great level design, and a sense of exploration and options in terms of movement thanks to the homming attack and spin dash, i really wish future sonic games bring back this type of gameplay and freedom to play the level how you please, instead of just boost to win
The main problem I see is, a lot of alternate paths feel like routes off to the side that at best give you a shortcut back onto the main path. I would love to see a more open design attempted,imagine something like Sonic Utopia but with actual goals in each direction you can take... or, just a bit more of a vertical, multi-path design like in the 2D games
@@hahasamian8010 I was thinking alternate paths that lead you to the same goal at the end. And that can also put you back on the main path some point in the level if you wanted.
The game just honestly needs a remake with everything fixed that people complained about.
They are not overrated. That's like saying Mario 64 is overrated, because that's what the adventure games were for Sonic. They are two of my all time favorite games and I believe they did a fantastic job bringing Sonic into 3D. I mean, before that we had Sonic 3D Blast...that was isometric, therefore not actually 3D. There was Sonic R...it didn't control very well. Sonic Extreme got cancelled...point is, compared to any of those, we got a Functional and more importantly, fun 3D Sonic game. I will never forget running through Emerald Coast for the first time! Young me's mind was absolutely blown. The beautiful graphics and sheer sense of speed! I will always love these games!
@@hahasamian8010 too much openness wouldn't allow for the focused level design that allows for mastery and really stylish movement, this ain't super mario 64, the ranking system wouldn't work in levels that are too open because it would have to account for so many things.
The vertical path design is already in both sa2, heroes and generations you must be blind to not see it. It's especially evident with stuff like the egg fleet levels, power plant, final rush and chase, and seaside hill/speed highway modern.
"you'll suffer from crazier gadgets ahead"
👁️ 👁️
These titles just get weirder and funnier.
I don’t think I ever actually got to Pyramid Cave when I first had SA2, I really need to replay this game…
Wow you sucked. Go finish the game and stop spoiling yourself.
Lmao 🤣
yeah i farted
sonic: hey.
you know what i like most about eggman?
amy: what?
sonic: his subtlety
Weird how it's only the Sonic and Shadow stages you're speaking highly about. Wanna tell us about what it's like to take a dive in Aquatic Mine next?
My guess is that he's getting the speed stages out of the way first, and then might visit some of the other ones.
@@melon6444 or because the others suck lol
@@sptflcrw8583 i love the knuckles and rouge levels, and sime of the eggman and tails ones
@@philatio1744 cool?
@@sptflcrw8583 you have a bad attitude little buddy
I just want to see the process of Eggman planting his likeness over appropriated territory. What does that even look like?
Prolly just has robots do it.
Pyramid Cave appreciation is always welcome. The stage theming and theme itself is pretty great.
3:35 Aw yes! One of the unwritten rules in video gaming. Will jumping into a fire damage me?
It would've been cool if the little pyramids did something extremely absurd that doesn't happen in any other scenario (Like letting you play as Amy for the rest of the level, for example).
She's busy shaving the sphinx outside, 'cause it was just so cute that she had to.
Plottwist: it turns out to be the millenium Puzzle from Yu-gi-oh and we unlock Yami Sonic.
@@Someguyhere111making its hair almost as smooth as Rouge (and sexy)
Definitely one of my favorite stages and themes in the game! Fave part is when the grind rails give you a view of outside and the other pyramids that Tails passed in the previous stage.
Really enjoying this look at some great levels in SA2 and the detailed mechanics, it's basically a tips/tricks guide + analysis + opportunity to geek out, all in one video. I think Sonic Team needs to revisit this stuff, along with having a bigger budget and more time.
Can't believe the game makes you jump through all those hoops just to get a high score.
Complicated much?
H A
Can't believe you're being salty because you can't get an A rank.
Pathetic much?
@@MetalMania343 Are you daft? It's a joke.
There are hoops in the level. Jumping through them gives you points. Points give you an A rank.
Do you not know what the term "Jumping through hoops" means, or are you just gonna say "woosh" and pretend your idiocy is a joke that's both a fat lie, and unfunny?
This is the single best sonic stage in every way in my opinion. The immense rewards for exploration paired with the single coolest level to speedrun makes for an incredible stage all around.
Also, your theory about the spring is correct; it works fine in the dreamcast version and ONLY the dreamcast version.
I disagree on the key section being that bad. It does add a challenge needing to move around with it and either dodging the robots. As a kid it threw me off at first but then I was relieved I was able to work within the limitations(and had the surprising abillity to trigger the hourglasses with jumps and throw the thing at enemies). It has a strangely endearing design and sound effects too, so I guess the intent is feeling satified to savely escort it. Depends on tastes though. It's something like Zelda games or slower platformers like mario 64 like to do a lot(the infamous mario 64 baby penguin).
This kind of slower puzzle setpiece(adventure 1 also has oddly slow bits) seem to have been mostly dropped in games after this though.
Yeah I was going to say, the limited movement is more feature than bug
They really made a whole gimmick item and function for this stage and only used it twice in said stage. Pretty much back to back as well.
Its an Amy callback from SA1
I have to admit, all of the good design in this level was completely lost on me unlike the previous sonic levels.
Perhaps the only thing that I understood about this level before is where to use bounce bracelet.
I recall running up the sides and seeing the hoops but not seeing much point in trying to jump through them.
I honestly didn't even know certain things increased your score until I started watching your videos.
So I never understood how to get high ranks in sonic levels despite completing it as fast as possible.
Learning a lot about a game over a decade after playing it. Great videos!
How do you not notice the score increase when you homing attack the item box inside the rings? Did you ignore it saying things like Cool or Awesome in the Treasure Hunting stages when you grabbed an emerald? Same for locking onto the enemies in the Shooting Stages.
In order to hit that spring, you have to unhook your GameCube, send it to me, then hook up your Dreamcast and a copy of SA2 for it. Then the spring will work just fine.
This course has one of the best songs from my GameCube memories. But to be fair: the entire soundtrack for this game is a bop
I'm so excited to look at another sa2 analysis. You've really opened my eyes to how these levels are constructed. I'm too busy racing to the end to notice anything.
I'm definitely going to take my time the next time I decide to play
The pit at 4:20 I believe is a reference to how Egyption Pyramids had pits that graverobbers would fall down and be trapped. They'd spend the rest of their days with their stolen treasure unable to escape... Quite a dark reference actually Xd
8:40 I think the key mechanic was just a fun throwback for the devs reminiscing of the Temple Keys in the Adventure Hub areas of Sonic Adventure 1.
I just thought of something. What if someone modified SA2 with the suggestions Zoomzike makes in these videos. Like the suggestion of the switch floating around you like omochao sounds really cool, and I would live to see that
I know from one of Failboat's videos that someone completely recreated Meteor Herd in A Hat in Time so I wouldn't be surprised if someone made an SA2 mod with all these things that zoomzike is suggesting.
Honestly, that would just make the keysection more pointless.
Very intriguing and funny video. I really miss and adore the way adventure tied the level design with the mythology of Sonic. The echidnas and Chao hieroglyphics in Pyramid cave is another testament to the creativity of the original Sonic Team Level Designers
The impossible spring reminds me of the numerous impossible rings the game has to offer, such as at the end of Eggman's Sand Ocean where there's just a ring floating behind an invisible wall to the left of the goal ring. Likely the same reasoning lies in its existence: either mistakenly placed or it was initially attainable but later on in development they made changes that made it impossible and no one noticed.
I figured that they just wanted the auto-A-rank to be impossible in some stages for whatever reason.
@@MetaKaios And that is where you figured wrong.
@@lpfan4491 How do you know that?
@@MetaKaios Because a lot of these rings follow a logic that modders found out a long time ago.
If an object is deleted but is forgotten to be removed from the object-list, it becomes a ring. That is why a bunch of these unoptainable rings replace big the cat.
If the coordinates are also purged, they appear at the position (0,0), which is why a few rings exist in the ports that are worth a lot of them, it's leftovers stacked ontop of each other.
The bigger exception is white jungle, where the unoptainable rings instead come from a beta-layout of green forest that was accidentially left in the stage.
@@lpfan4491 You're spot on LPFan, although I believe that the reason Big turned into rings is not because his object was deleted and thus became a ring, but rather because during the porting process of SA2 to SA2:B, someone changed the pointer from Big to rings to make it easier to port... and possibly forgot to turn it back or something like that.
I remember playing SA2 and being able to touch that spring, I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast version works fine, devs probably changed the collision for that pillar in later ports and didn't realize the mistake. Try testing on an emulator. I remember perfectly that I was able to touch that spring, trust me.
Also the level after this one is Death Chamber, I would really love if you review that level, I personally think It's one of the best ones!
Oh wow, someone else who actually likes Death Chamber XD I feel it gets way too much hate from people simply because it's more enclosed than previous levels, but honestly it's pretty simple to navigate (a literal ring, in fact) and it being enclosed makes following the pings easy. The requirement for A-rank is also super generous at a mere 12,000.
@@Someguyhere111 Yes, the stage itself has a very good design, what make people don't like is when they are not paying attention to the map and hints.
The requirement is 12000, you can even use all 9 hints and still get an A-rank
i would argue that not only is the key foreshadowed, with items such as the tires in City Escape, but also references how you can hold Chao in the garden
Most Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, & Rouge levels have stuff you can pick up like this. Security Hall has these boxes you can pick up (better done in 2P) what's even cooler is you can set them down on the moving platform & make them float in midair by having a player watch over them so they don't despawn while the other collects more. Dry Lagoon has these small barrels, Wild Canyon has the skulls of some animal laying around, Pumpkin Hill has pumpkins, Human Skulls can be dug up in several stages, Mad Space has an item that's a reference to Phantasy Star Online.
Yes Chao use the same mechanics with you being able to pick up chao or things to give them & perform the same behaviors. You can also pick up Omochao & listen to his reactions. He also says things at random when you carry him on a spring, put him down, or throw him. He also has special lines for each Treasure Hunting & Sonic/Shadow Stage if you carry him when completing your mission. I'm not sure if he says anything if carried into a back ring though & it's speculated whether or not he says the quote if carrying him when walking into the last shard you need or clearing 2nd Missions. You can attack Omochao as any character (not counting mechless Shooters) at least to get various random reactions when he wakes up.
Sonic levels are intentionally designed to be easy to make it through but hard to make it through like a BADASS. The old games did this by making the player feel lame and move slowly if they were bad, but Adventure 2 had the best solution which was the ranking system. You CAN just walk through the first room of pyramid cave, but you might not get a cool A rank and be a cool guy.
Also I said S rank the first time because I remembered wrong.
Yeah, adventure 2 and unleashed have the best ranking systems. It isn't about skipping the entire stage like generations, you have to interact with the stage in order to gather enough points.
My favorite rankingsystem is Unwiished, honestly. It IS purely timebased, but one has to either be super good at the game or interact with the stage to find shortcuts to get the S. The ranks are easy enough to get if one knows what to do(minus Eggman Land), but they still challenge the player to a good degree.
S ranks don't exist in SA2.
@@jazzensemble A rank you know what I mean. I don't look at the letter I just see red and go "oh I did it."
I mean you're technically correct.... cause I make no secret of my browsing history ;3
I see the ridiculous line of video title claims continues, this is the best kind of clickbait LMAO
The music is one of my favourites
For some reason I always thought that the lyrics had something to do with eggman for some reason due to the guitar rift or what ever it’s called
There are those neon spinning Eggman faces in the Pyramid.
Eggman did put his base there.
@@runningoncylinders3829 oh ye
god i love these videos so much. you do this game so much justice. is SA2 level design just hallway simulators? yeah, but only if you want them to be. there's so much to seek out if youre just creative and observant enough.
My favorite level, played it and the song a lot but i didn't know about all those extra pathways! Thanks!
the music in this level is honestly one of my favorites in this game. that and crazy gadget's theme.
also i love that swich puzzle you hate so much, sonics accelaration is a lot of fun whern holding it, and the challenge of avoiding multiples of easy enemies and challenges in a new context, its just awesome
You don't want to see my history... You will see things like "how to spell Wedensday" smh 😢
"Whend's deigh" obviously.
My history consists of “does size matter” followed by “Pokémon go does size matter”
@@luisalonsoxy3530 On that note: I'm always seeking "Tall Girl Short Guy".
Bold of you to assume the ancient pyramids have more secrets than MY browser history
Interestingly, the mysterious spring in the Dreamcast version of the game is actually accessible. Subsequent versions of SA2 would actually make dozens of changes like this from the original, including changes to lighting, textures, sounds and music, levels, objects, geometry, etc.
Some of these changes are for worse and it’s hard to say if they were done intentionally during the conversion (although this is clearly unintentional), a lot of them might come from oversights during play testing and QA, but it’s just my guess.
damn that's alot of secrets
5:10 I think a little context helps here:
Most of the robots you destroy up to this point in the game are from GUN themselves, and last time I checked, the military in this universe wouldn't weaponize animals like Robotnik/Eggman would. So having this one along with some GUN machines is to show not only is GUN combating you in the levels, but also Eggman, who by this point in the story would have already infiltrated the pyramid and made his base of operations here. You can also see that from some of the surrounding decorations with Eggman-like faces on them, even over ancient ruins.
If Sonic Adventure 1 is to have bearing on Sonic Adventure 2 (as some plot points carry over, like Eggman reading about Tails being awarded a Chaos Emerald by saving Station Square), then this Gamma robot is probably a clone of the one we played as in Sonic Adventure 1, in much the same way Eggman made clones of Shadow in Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog.
These titles have me dead 😭 you’re goated for these videos bro, instant sub
10:45
"safely onto the main path"
sonic hanging onto the ledge "ah yes. safe"
Holy hell dude these SA2 videos you have exploring the levels make love this game even more than I already did, like seriously almost half of the things you pointed out in this level are completely new to me and blew my mind. Grade A content on CZcams man, keep it up.
When I woke up this morning I was NOT expecting to watch a recomended almost 16 minute long video that goes in debth about Pyramid cave from SA2. And yet I LOVED it. You sir have a new subscriber.
You *cannot hit that spring* 🤯 it's an exclusive bug/coding mistake of the battle version of the game... This means you can hit the spring on the dreamcast version only
well then bruh.
LMFAO. The first 50 seconds sold me on this analysis vid. Top tier comedy, you've definitely earned a sub from me!
1:36 You're right. Sonic floating to the side adds a whole new layer of atmosphere to the level.
Glad you caught that haha
Zike: "Pyramid Cave Holds More Secrets Than Your Browsing History"
Me: "Are you sure about that?
I will say that while I do love the continuity of Eggman's robots in this game being powered by animals, while G.U.N. robots are powered by Chaos Drives, it really was a missed opportunity to not have the mass produced E-100 robots be powered specifically by bird animals.
This level is probably the most fun to watch speedruns for. You get a ton of chances to exploit the super bounce and the best part is there's a skip that allows you to bypass doing that stupid key section. Unfortunately, I can't figure out exactly how to do it cause it looks like you just place yourself in a certain spot and spin dash your way to clip through a door.
5:26
"Only Villains do that"
Is this a reference to Shadow not having the bounce bracelet?
Some All-Might thing about toilet paper, I think...
At least, that's where I've seen the line.
All this stuff I never noticed/didn't think about, this is very informative
3:00
Those are depictions of Thoth, the Egyptian God of Wisdom, who has the head of an Ibis (a species of Bird native to Africa).
Bruh you gotta keep this series going, I love it
Love these videos as always! i cant wait for there to be one for all the other sa2 levels lol
This has been possibly the best SA2 related video I've ever seen, I'm excited to watch the ones I missed and for the ones to come
What a thorough level design analysis. Learned a lot
I'm sorry, but this level has nothing on my browsing history.
You sure?
Boy i'm part of that crowd that argues SA2 is not as linear as people say and like 80% of what i saw was entirely new
I already love this stage for making the most with the running-in-walls tunnels and even the key section i like (in hard mode they got really creative with that section) but ZoomZike just made me love this stage even more
And Keys the Ruin still slaps 20 years later
You had me at the title man. The nostagia, the humor, the INTENTIONAL good OG Sonic roots in level design. Nice vid
Ive been playing Sa2 for years and never noticed that spring in pyramid cave. But I've gone to all the places with the mystic melody.
I love how the time matches the video run time. *chef's kiss*
thanks zoomzike for consistently reminding me how much i love sonic :^)
Damn, how long have I been subconsciously waiting for this? Love it! I'm working on 100%ing Adventure 2 on Steam (right now all As are done, and I just have Chao to do. I'm finishing with Last Story, then A Rank Cannon's Core, and then the Boss Rush for Last Story to finish off with a bang) and Pyramid Cave quickly jumped into my top 2/3 Sonic levels, right behind Final Rush as first. Can't wait for that video after Crazy Gadget!
*looks at title* you underestimated my browsing history and my bookmarks
My internet search history? Oh God, does ZoomZike know that I had to look up the name of White Jungle?? Noooooo!!!
“Crazier gaskets ahead” I see what you did there
Great video. There was way more to these levels than I thought as a kid. Pyramid Cave is one of Sonic's best stages, especially with that music.
These stage analysis videos are always a treat, I’d love to see you tackle some other sonic games after you’re done with SA2, only if you’re interested of course. Either way, you make some great content!
I too keep an eye on my *seach* history.
The allusion to an upcoming Crazy Gadget video has me at the edge of my seat, I'm really looking forward to that one!
But of course this video itself is great too, I love the time you took to appreciate all of the wonderful small details put into this stage!
*E-Rank:* Knowing a Crazy Gadget video is coming.
*A-Rank:* Knowing what it's gonna be called.
I think the purpose of the key sections (or any section in a game that takes away your abilities) is to get the player to think outside the box and force them to be creative and use their relatively limited resources to succeed. Personally, I enjoy chucking the key at the robots and throwing it in the slot at the apex of the ramp. But I will admit, it's the worst section of the level.
(Also, I'm pretty sure Sonic's speed and acceleration are identical whether he's holding the key or not)
If a browser's search history is like a good Sonic level, does that make Incognito mode a Forces level?
Null Space & Imperial Tower would like a word with you.
Thank you for surfacing my subconscious thoughts on this stage from so many years ago.
I really like your series on SA2B’s levels - they’re really well thought out
5:14 All the enemy badnicks in the pyramid levels drop animals instead of chaos drives; since it's Eggman's territory and not occupied by GUN (at least further in, you see the progression from GUN robots to Eggman's badnicks throughout Hidden Base)
7:54 idk, this part was one of my favorite parts of the level since you get to play around with your lightspeed dash so much and it's kinda open
Those item slot doors are the most annoying parts of the level. Good thing the first can be skipped with a high bounce since the wall isn't solid all the way up, and the second one can be clipped through with the right angle on a spin dash.
The robots in pyramid cave are Eggmans robots thats why they are powered by little animals. The rest of the robots you fight are GUN robots and they are powered by chaos drives.
I thought the robots with drives were solely GUN robots, and the ones with animals were eggman robots
Jamming out to a soundtrack that sounds like a straight banger while running through long corridors, jumping through hoops, running on loops, and escaping ghosts who are trying to hug you...
What more could you ask for?
5:00 a example of over thinking I believe, as I think it's to differentiate eggman's robots from gun
Another detail I love is that you can clearly see more of Eggman's influence appearing as you get further and further in. The earliest parts are the outskirts, mostly normal Pyramid artwork and what not, but going further and further starts replacing a lot of the natural features with Eggman decor like the flaming pillars and electronic lights.
i know ur gonna make more vids on this game but whenever u get to the chao's, i hope you make it a multiple part or just long af in general because when i went back and researched a lot about how to do breeding and even how to unlock certain shit and the differences between the game releases that shit is super crazy and full of depth and its not even apart of the actual story xD. it makes sense why i questioned a lot of things all the times ive replayed this on a new console/emulator throughout the years(considering this game and a dreamcast was my first non handheld console/game)
sorry if im rambling too much but keep it up bro i love these vids
This is actually one of if not my favorite level. The secrets and use of speed are great. I LOVE the atmosphere and I love how it plays with the physics for skill test when trying to build score. I'm actually gonna disagree about the key challenge. its a challenge to get the key back fast as possible within the restricted controls and is something that can be zone very quickly if you play well. Fits the pyramid theme imo.
One thing I learned recently is that the pyramid section of the game takes place in Sandopolis, both start by the outside and then go on the inside and enemies such as the ghosts and golems. This would answer a huge continuity error of how there is a desert in San Fransisco and why does Eggman have a rocket in a pyramid. It’s because the real life Angel island was the inspiration for Sonic’s Angel island and (only confirmed in the Japanese version) Angel island permanently came back to Earth since chaos was neutralized which would also answer how rouge was able to steal the master emerald at the beginning of the game. Also I’m surprised you haven’t mentioned the hieroglyphs that show what looks like Sonic-esque people and Knuckles-esque people. In other levels the same sonic looking people are seen praising the master emerald in wild canyon and praising a chao in the secret area of death chamber. Following the Sonic is an alien theory (must watch imo) this implies that Sonic’s race gave the knuckles’ clan the master emerald and chao. Also in the king boom boo fight we see Sonic’s exact face on the wall in a very similar way to how sonic statues appear in hydrocity (they’re even in Sonic Mania). I love this theory since there’s a ton of evidence and hidden details for it that makes me appreciate the games up to SA2 than I did before
The music is closely related too. They both have that James Bond sound mixed in
Something to consider about the key section is that, they actually do serve a minor narrative purpose. The key's aren't part of the pyramid normally, they have Eggman's symbol on it. In other words, I think it is supposed to evoke Eggman purposefully trying to slow Sonic down and annoying him.
Well he did a good job then aha
Funny thing about that untouchable spring.
I swear I was able to hit it one time, but whenever I try to recreate it, it always ends the same way.
You can hit it on the dreamcast version.
@@jazzensemble I just realized that from Speeps' comment.
Must've been when I was playing it on the Dreamcast then.