Crime and colonialism: Agatha Christie’s And Then There Were None
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2019
- Warning: graphic depictions of violence, spoilers
Welcome to Is This Just Fantasy?, book club edition! This has been a long time coming. I’m a diehard Agatha Christie fan and I’ve been wanting to discuss this particular novel since the BBC miniseries came out. I thought it would be a good opportunity for some proper facetime. Hope you guys enjoy.
(Headphones recommended. Please excuse the echo and traffic sounds. A day may come when I have a proper recording set up… but it is not this day.)
Find a channel update on my Patreon: bit.ly/2CXXiXx
Check out my pal Luke Smith at: lukemakes.it/
Additional Reading:
Paul Bloom, “The Root of All Cruelty?”
www.newyorker.com/magazine/20... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
The fact that MacArthur, the oldest soldier who would’ve experienced the height of Victorian racism and classism, is arguably one of the nicest characters, condemning Lombard for abandoning his men in spite of their race or upbringing, really says something.
You can be raised in a terrible, close-minded environment, but you have to make the choice to absorb the toxicity or reject it.
He tries to repent, and Wargrave recognizes that, and that’s why he’s my favorite character.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
i feel the most for him. his wife cheated on him and then he was left all alone after her death. the scene in the book when he calls out to leslie has to be one of the most heartbreaking moments in books for me
exactly, hes the best out of all the other characters
Having a happy ending to a story called “and then there were none” is extremely bizarre to me
The happy ending came from the play version of the book, which Agatha Christie wrote herself. She changed it because the play took place in 1943 when ww2 was still ongoing. The idea was along the lines of "why let people watch a play where everyone dies when you can see that in real life already?". So even if the title doesn't fit the ending, it's honestly pretty sweet of Christie to do that even when she didn't need to.
edit: typo
@@_silience and the problem with changing that ending is that although people mainly used that good ending as the ending when directing shows people often changed endings and on the 125th anniversary of Agathas birth, her grandson published a good ending of the play that she originally wrote which has been uses more in recent years in theatre. I personally prefer the bad ending if the play as its truer to the novel. The good ending is naff.
@@_silienceTHIS. people are obsessed with being "realistic" and "tragic" and try to insist that its better than happy endings. But if fiction and art is supposed to take you away from reality, then why be realistic? There is so much death in the world, why be made aware of it all the time? Happiness exists, success exists. But ppl cant seem to accept that
It’s criminal!
Never knew there was a ’good ending’ the og has already a great ending in my opinion😅
I think one of the things that makes this novel so bleak is that in most stories you have at least one character that is nicer or somewhat likeable. There's none here; they're all horrible. There's no relief or feeling comfortably apart from the horrible characters. In many ways the novel is pointing at the reader saying "you're horrible too, if you don't see it it's because you didn't look hard enough".
I actually have one or two characters whom I like in the story. I recognize them as bad guys deserving punishment, but I am also partly rooting for them as protagonists-not very different from watching The Americans, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, etc.
well I think it's important to differentiate between good people and likeable characters. Objectively, all of the characters featured range from questionable to morally reprehensible, but I actually liked a lot of them lol. The judge was definitely a sociopath but I thought he was really funny and interesting, the old general seemed like a good dude that just made a bad choice out of bitterness, etc.
This a really fascinating point! No one is truly innocent on the island.
I will say I did like the Doctor though, I feel like out of all of them he felt the most true remorse and actually had attempted to reform his life. Still far from perfect of course. I felt a good bit of sympathy for the general too.
I have several characters that I like in the novel:
1) Phillip Lombart. I like him the most. He's sharp, confident, and honest. He staightforwardly admitted his wrongdoing. He's also very handsome in my imagination (Aidan Turner is as handsome as Phillip Lombart could be😍).
2) General McArthur. His wife was cheated on him. Of course he wanted to kill the other guy.
3) Dr. Amstrong. Like someone else wrote in the comment, I thought he really regretted what he had done and had turned his life for the better since.
4) Justice Wargrave. Actually, I kind of dislike him because he killed General McArthur and Dr. Amstrong.
And the one I dislike the most:
Emily Brent. Cannot stand the Karen type.
No. They were are good people somehow. They were normal people. They were us.
The reckless driver was the only I could not tolerate. The others I could see how it was “ok” in their minds to kill.
I realize I’m two years late to the party, but I have just discovered this video and very much loved your analysis. I do disagree on one point though - Wargrave doesn’t count himself as one of the “Indians”. He specifically refuted that interpretation by finding (and talking about finding) the tenth victim in Isaac Morris, the dope peddler who, as he was indirectly responsible for the suicide of a daughter of Wargrave’s friends, became another target. So despite all his acknowledgment of his own nature, Wargrave still sees himself as above, different from the others. He’s the Justice, not the little Indian.
Yes. He goes out of his way to distance himself from the others. The crime that he accused himself of committing, the sentencing of an innocent man to death, was not a crime. The man was guilty and he did his job as a judge. His other killings he also justified as they were all guilty of a crime that the law wouldn't punish them for so he did it as justice. The others had all killed or lead to the deaths of the innocent. He was not one of them in his eyes.
@@davidalexander3320
I understand, but I disagree, which is the genius of his confession. He does acknowledge that he killed them while not have committed the act the "kills" him. However, in the end he states that he could not go unpunished, because though he desired to bring these people to justice, he was motivated by murderous intent and premeditation. This places him firmly among his victims, aside from the young fool who killed by accident but still without remorse. He also places himself as the last after the death of Vera because each "victim" had committed worse acts than the previous. As he had conspired to murder no fewer than 10 unsuspecting people and succeeding, it was fitting that he should be the one to arrange the final tableau including his own demise.
If it were as you say, Wargrave would try to save himself. What point would it be killing himself with the rest of the group?
@@jayt9608 except he didn't count himself among his victims. He explicitly states "I needed a 10th victim" and that 10th he says was Morris. He didn't leave himself until the end because he was the worst offender. He did itnso he could enjoy his work and write his letter.
@@elisabettanucifora616 he had a terminal illness and was going to die soon anyway. Also if he had left there would be no mystery. He had to be among the dead.
It really is very frustrating when film adaptions take race-critical themes out of books. We still need to see media that deal with these themes even in what we think of as "cozy mysteries." I'd love to see Jordan Peele adapt And Then There Were None.
I don’t think it could be done for several reasons. He said he would never hire a white lead or leads for a film bc he’s said he’s already seen that. I also don’t know how the racial themes could be played out unless the entire cast was white unfortunately. Maybe there could be some changes where a few of the characters are mixed race but ‘passing.’ The racial themes are ever present but more subtle. Therefore, internet mobs would have a field day if say the ordinal name or Indian name was used. With the rhyme being ever so present, what should it be called?
@@Garbeaux. Having a cast with white/white-passing and non-white folx would not necessarily negatively affect the colonial themes of ATTWN--it might even help bring them into focus & add some nuance *if* done well. Race is a created concept intended to support European colonization of "non-European" peoples--colonialism uses race as a tool, but the prime motivators are greed and self-serving indifference, which are found in all humans (that's part of the novel's point, no?). It is quite possible to be racist against one's own self--colonialism depends on it to outsource the management of a colony.
There are always some people who will throw their own kindred under the bus for personal gain--'successful' colonization requires that the colonized eventually come to mentally justify their own colonization and value resource extraction as an end in and of itself. Assimilation, acquiescence, and exercises in pro-colonizer apologetics are actively & strongly rewarded. The US government was always able to find a few Indigenous folx to sign a treaty--even after it had been publicly voted down--to give themselves a legal pretext for Removal. As a case in point, a number of our tribal governments were designed to ensure sympathizers of the colonial project within our communities are the ones in charge.
Adapting the novel to include characters with backgrounds that also include mundane, everyday-betrayals of their own people for the benefit of appearing good in the eyes of the colonizers would fit in the general theme nicely--but it would be difficult to do well and not a little dangerous. It would also be very interesting to have at least one white character who views themselves as an 'ally', but who is actually someone who perpetuates harm to BIPOC communities and is totally and entirely oblivious to it (these people pop up frequently on the Rez, and are possibly the most difficult people to deal with. They're so convinced they're helping us!)
As for the rhyme, I think it's actually possible to use "10 little soldiers" and remain true to the theme IF it is clearly indicated in the script that the 'soldiers' are 'soldiers of colonialism'--that one aspect of their inhumanity is in fact having been a stooge for the colonizing project. I have on occasion heard a fellow Indigenous person disparaged as 'a soldier in the white man's army'; sometimes that's literal, most of the time it's a metaphor.
I do agree the likelihood of a successful adaptation of ATTWN along these lines is...not very likely. There is such a long history of roping in a few BIOPC folx so directors/producers can say "look at us being all anti-colonial!" while still managing to malign the BIOPC folx they're supposed to be representing--without even touching on films that use BIPOC cast in films that flatly disparage BIPOC folx as part of the plot. Also, while this sort of adaptation could serve as a good reminder to BIPOC folx that we have a duty to monitor ourselves for ways we're unintentionally contributing to upholding systems of oppression, it's probably not best done via the medium of blockbuster films...but perhaps some day
The modern version of this is Knives Out. Great social and political commentary, probably what you're looking for with the "Jordan Peel adapts And Then There Was None" 👍
@@Garbeaux. I disagree 100 percent. Race doesn’t need to be seen through the eyes of a white person. Race is (most of the time) seen through the eyes of a white person and that is how we end up white savior narratives. Also Jordan has had white cast members but he stated he would a white lead for his movies.
@@Mockingbird_Taloayour idea for how to make it with a BIPOC cast is sooo good! You would make an excellent screenwriter or something along those lines, if you’re not one already
I just noticed this, but nobody died a particularly painful death, such as Rogers being killed by an axe to the head, and Blore killed instantly by the clock, except Vera.
The Judge didn’t want the actual death to be the painful part, but the mental agony for the victims.
Axe to the head is not painful? Being thrown from the cliff?
This is one of the greatest pieces of literary analysis I've ever encountered.
Agatha Christie shaped my approach to literature as a child, and I've long said that her greatest impact on me wasn't about whodunit plots or quaint interwar British customs, but rather reflection on different forms of moral reasoning. Especially, the particular way Poirot views murder as a sin against God's will, and the way he treats individual murderers in books like Ackroyd, ABC, Orient Express, Death on the Nile, Five Little Pigs and The Hollow, paint a picture of one man's (in RPG terms) 5-dimensional alignment, that transcends any individual story. And the short story "Wasps' Nest" -- oh, God, just thinking about it does the works on me.
It's correct
Wasps' nest is great! The best of the short stories.
Well said! Poirot is such a fascinating character. And I love Wasp's Nest, it's such an incredibly crafted story -- for being so short, it has a great impact.
Why I love about this book is that it’s basically a “slasher” horror book as it is a who done it.
I think Christie is much underrated when it comes to social and political comment. Mostly because that was never the foremost purpose of her writing. Nevertheless it is there if you look for it, albeit in muted form.
It sounds as though in its original, And Then There Were None was her most outspoken example. Another example is One Two Buckle My Shoe. Where the murderer is revealed to be an influential political figure who represents Poirot's own conservative values. The detective nevertheless apprehends him despite believing that in doing so he is opening the floodgates to the very social and political forces of which he disapproves. A slighter but notable example is the denouement of The ABC Murders, where Poiret denounces the bigoted, xenophobic murderer's crimes as being "unEnglish".
Of course a constant theme running through Christie's work is how ideas of class and respectability can easily served to mask and shield moral depravity.
I'd also note that despite the popular notion of Miss Marple's character being that of the classic, quaint and proper village spinster, she is actually what is referred to in the UK as a "nosy parker". This puts her very much at odds with the social expectations for women of her age at that time.
Illuminating observations. Thank you.
Weird. I have never once though of Marple as a quaint proper spjnster. To me she was always the detective version of Hyacinth Bucket. A lot more intelligent, but just as much of a busybody.
@@darkwitnesslxx Well of course I agree with you, minus Hyacinth's epic social pretensions. How often have you heard Marple described as such though? I don't doubt that it may be more remarked upon in the UK but in the US she's been seen through the twee filter that has affected most popular perceptions of Britain.
@@walterreeves3679 I am a big Agatha Christie fan and have read all her books and short stories. From the beginning understood her to be a busybody. And I live in the U. S.
@@llandrin9205 I presume you mean you were born and raised in the US?
In any case, saying something is the popular view isn't the same as saying it is the universal view. Every generalization has its exceptions, and mine is no exception.
Christie’s characters might express views that we find offensive.
But that doesn’t mean Christie herself held those views .
Many of her characters look down on anyone who is not British.
Often, the guilty person in her story is not the base foreigner we suspect.
It is the “native “ English character.
Christie was critical of British exceptionalism.
Cancel culture is destroying everything.
See for example, Dead Man’s Folly.
I have no idea why the algorithm would choose to introduce me to you now, with this particular video, but I'm glad it did. Thank you for the history and insight!
I literally stopped the video and only came back to it when I was done with the book. I finished it this morning and I am so grateful to have seen your essay right afterwards. I would’ve never seen the importance of race and the irony in the whole plot. It made for a much more interesting read. Thank you for your videos they are truly enlightening.
You actually read it!!! I'm so pleased. Sending you a virtual gold star... :)
I have read “10 little Indians” as a child and still read it every year. I never understood how much race was important in this one.
Shame they changed the titles and some words.
I read the modern version of this book in class. And I must say. It’s easily one of the best books I’ve ever read! Very intriguing and intelligent
Easily the best Christie book!
Yeah. It's dark, but honestly one of her greatest.
‘Modern’ version???? It’s not even 100 years old!!!!
I personally much prefer The ABC Murders. Of course with the way critics fawn over ‘dark’ themes critics would like this book best.
BTW all the mysteries are solved by the end, we know what the reasons everybody was chosen & who the mastermind was.
I do agree that this is a masterpiece tho
@@teleriferchnyfain Modern version probably as in with the racially sanitized version as explained in the video.
@@evaweiss1160 Yeah :(
I found and read this book as a young pre-teen and it’s easily my favorite mystery but yes as a black man I believe my book even included calling Rogers the n-word if I remember correctly. Personally it does make me uncomfortable yet I still love the work of Christie. Thank you for your breakdown as well because I will enjoy this book even more.
My version is Ten Little Indians and includes the phrase “[n-word] in the woodpile” but iirc that’s the only instance and it’s used generally to say “something’s not right with this situation, there’s a bad actor behind it” and not directed at any one character
I think you are supposed to see it as people giving themselves away with casual racism, even before things get really ugly.
My high school literature teacher had us read the 'Ten Little Indians' edition, i think specifically so that she could talk to us about race and the concept of the Other. The Other was basically the whole first semester of the class, with Frankenstein and Dracula being other books we studied. I cant remember the racial aspects of the class, but I do remember it being addressed.
We had a copy of "Ten Little (ahem)" in my parent's house from the 1940's. I was never allowed to read it because my Mother thought it was a racist book and "too dark for children ". I really want to seek out a newer copy now, I love the Poirot books, and have a few movies based on her book. It sounds like a good read.
Some consider it Christie's magnum opus. I read it over two days while sick and without the energy to do anything but sit in the bath with a book. It's a good read, for sure, and I would recommend it. But I've always been a little ambivalent about the ending and I wouldn't say it was quite as enjoyable as some of the Poirot books are, mostly because it doesn't feature Poirot.
What is wrong with "Ten Little Indians"?
@@johnnotrealname8168 Ten Little Indians is not its original name.
Me too. I think there may be at least three different versions. Not sure if it's just the title, or if it's edited throughout. After watching that fascinating analysis, I want to read all versions now too.
@@johnnotrealname8168 I think they meant the n-word
*Pausing and getting the book*
That's what I like to hear :)
One of my favorites of all time. Hope you enjoyed it.
I love how you explained in details on the lost meaning of changing to little "soldiers" - something that I wouldn't have discovered on my own in any adaptations of the original novel. In addition, there are important points that you made: 1. Morality can be powerful driving force for violence, murder or war - politicians often use it to manipulate their people; 2. Agatha Christie’s idea of "justice" is different from what the law dictates - For example, in Poirot's last case, Hercule Poirot committed a murder at the end of his life, in order to stop him from continuing killing. Obviously she didn't have a high confidence in the jury system.
You also mentioned the British sense of being proper/right - in their own minds they can do no wrong (unlike the savages). That reminds me of a British play "An Inspector Calls" exposing the very opposite.
I just want to say Oh my god!!! I’m delighted to see you upload!! Now I will go watch the video 💖
Fascinating points!
I think it is worth remarking on the book’s treatment of Jewish people. Characters like Lombard are casually anti-Semitic, but the narrative doesn’t seem critical of this; it refers to the only Jewish character, Isaac Morris (the judge’s unwitting cats-paw) as having (sorry to quote this) ‘thick Semitic lips’ that smirk knowingly, and it’s later revealed that the man is a drug-pusher and Wargrave’s last victim because of it. In other words, it seems to affirm the prejudices of the characters. Given that the book was first published in 1939, that’s particularly disturbing.
To give it credit, the BBC version made a point of setting it between World Wars and having Emily Brent, who’s particularly charmless, make a remark about how the Jews seem to be at the bottom of everything. So it nods towards fascism rather than colonialism, though it could have done more with that idea - and given that the adaptation presents Brent as a predatory lesbian who throws out her maid more from jealousy than Christian righteousness, which is her motivation in the book, it rather loses credit there. Attributing the most fascism to the character the fascists would have been quickest to kill, with no reflection on the irony, feels, at best, careless.
The bleakness is interesting, though. Adaptations do often accept that audiences don’t go to Christie to get depressed - including Christie’s own stage play, I think - and the 1945 version seems to accept that it’s a highly contrived premise and do it as a drawing-room black comedy. One thing I’d also really like to see an adapter try is to accept the gruesomeness of the death setpieces and do it as an 80s-style/post-Saw slasher. Those movies are in many ways descendents of the book anyway, and have a similar structure of escalating dramatic deaths and final unmasking of the self-righteous killer, so why not?
But one thing that does seem particularly colonial is Wargrave’s scale of guilt. He considers Marston least guilty because he’s ‘born without that feeling of moral responsibility which most of us have ... pagan.’ (While many modern readers would consider him one of the guiltiest: he kills two children with dangerous driving, isn’t sorry, and still drives just as dangerously, so along with Lombard he’s by far the likeliest to re-offend. But the narrative seems to agree with Wargrave, at least in calling Marston ‘pagan.’) One of the last victims is Lombard, for an act Lombard calls ‘not quite the act of a pukka sahib.’ The people Wargrave judges harshest tend to be the ones who in some way cold-bloodedly abused their authority - or, to put it another way, betrayed the role of pukka sahib their authority required of them. They let the side down. They let the White Man’s Burden fall.
So I’d argue that you can actually read it as a highly colonial book. It’s just that it regards colonial possessions as coming with a duty to be worthy of them, and failing that duty, neglecting noblesse oblige, gets you culled.
Interesting comment re: Wargrave - it sounds as though it's the capacity for guilt, more than the actual crime, that is being punished.
So many excellent points, Kit, especially with regards to Christie's casual anti-Semetism (that also disturbed me on rereading) and the BBC version's nods to fascism. Modern American and British media often use fascist imagery or rhetoric in historical works as a shorthand to communicate that something/someone is evil without particularly understanding what fascism actually is or how it works in the narrative (see my video "Vulcans vs Nazis" -- shameless plug!)
I particularly like your second point about ATTWN being a profoundly colonial book that criticizes people who "misuse" their power rather than the power systems themselves. I agree 100% -- I wish I had articulated it in my essay! Christie is definitely NOT critiquing colonialism as a system; rather she's implying that these are "bad" colonists whose whiteness has not stopped them from behaving like "savages", which is certainly a racist attitude, but also such an explicit thesis about the intersection of race and morality that I get all the more annoyed about editions that write race out of the novel. As I say in the video, take the race themes out, and you end up with a totally different story.
@@isthisjustfantasy7583 I do not understand why people are critical of so called "Anti-Semitism" in books or media so what?
This comment was weird too.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Because anti-Semitism is bad. Try to keep up
I always thought that "And then there were none" was a darker version of "Cards on the table" by Agatha Christie. Both books premises are relatively the same except one has Hercule Poirot in it. "Cards on the table" was more of a sympathetic take of the human condition as opposed to and then there were none that was darker.
10:10 The explanation of the appalling expression "N***** in the wood pile" was still in circulation when I was young and was generally understood to mean that there was suspected miscegenation in a family - not that there were "skeletons in the closet". Although, I suppose this could be taken to mean a specific "skeleton in the closet" as well.
Charles Chaplin referred to his Gypsy (Romani) descent as the skeleton in his family closet.
It just means hidden, not wanting to be found. Surely
Them being called soldier could actually be also very clever -
Soldier were not always the good guys - they were able to abuse their power, commit crimes and sometimes got away with it
Soldiers can be brave and loyal, but there are still those who only act out on their own interests and pleasures
In a basic sense, the victims would resemble soldiers that abused their power
Soldiers are surrounded by war and death
Society and our daily life, especially in the rougher days, was considered to be a fight
For survival, for morals and for each other and themselves
And of course there are people, that abuse power and act out in their interests
To enrich themselves, to fulfill their morals and ideas they sacrificed people
So they get lured into the island, with promises of those things, only to have their comeuppance
Think about it and have a nice day!
I think the problem is that soldiers are expected to kill, whereas people like the doctor, the teacher, the charity worker, are not supposed to kill, it doesn't fit. It is also the out that the characters initially give the soldiers, that they often have to make difficult decisions and leave some people to die.
I agree though, it does have an explicitly 'Onward Christian Soldiers' vibe, the 19th century values of purity and public service unravelling.
The word should be considered a metaphor.
Everyone to some degree has to "fight" to survive the "battle of life".
just like every human being
Wonderful to see you upload again!
Don't know why this suddenly appeared in my suggestions - but great critique. I am a big fan of AC and first read this novel when it had its original title (in the 1970s in the UK) and did feel uncomfortable at the poem and title. Apart from that I never thought about racism when I read it - just thought it was a great - though dark - novel. But what you said adds to its literary weight and would prefer to keep it to the original (I'm not white BTW).
I did read the "soldier" version, and I can say the critique on British morality and sense of superiority was not lost on me. While the "Indian" version might have been less subtle, I think the sanitized versions still effectively give this critique.
I think the 2015 BBC adaptation of this novel is still the best adaptation. She's right though that the MacArthur, Blige, and Rodgers acts of murder were made more brutal and overt than necessary. However, the Lombard change where he killed the African tribe members rather than stealing from them and letting them starve made more sense. The original version always left a little doubt that what Lombard did actually resulted in the death of those 20+ people. The BBC version made Lombard less ambiguous. He was greedy, cruel, and had no compassion.
While watching the BBC version, I found myself feeling sympathy for this character (and that might be the actor's talent), but I knew I shouldn't. That was disturbing, and I think that feeling was what Christie wanted her readers to feel with this character.
This was my first Agatha Christie and murder mystery novel and by God I was so delighted and stunned. I finished it last night and couldn’t put it down. I’ve been thinking of it ever since. Thank you for this great analysis!! Now I love it even more.
Thank you for breaking this down. I believe Agatha Christie was a great believer in us all being capable of great crimes in the right (or wrong) circumstances and nowhere does our ugliness show as easily as when we are dealing with people less powerful and “other”. And while she wasn’t a great political writer, I do think she had some quite modern opinions on the matter.
Obviously you’ll find casually racist remark and portrayals in Christie’s novels. She was a product of her time, after all. But, I have also noticed that she often seems to poke fun at the racism of her characters. The many times Poirot’s suspects rant about “the foreigners” (not him, of course, he’s different) come to mind, or how they wave away the fact that no, he’s not French but Belgian, (but does it matter, really?). I think there is significance in her picking a funny little, unrooted Belgian immigrant as her brilliant detective rather than a more obvious (and British) hero. Writing something as dark as “Ten little ….” was a brave move even for an established author. I am willing to bet that there were discussions in her publisher’s office. So, maybe it was natural that it had to be altered to be palatable for the masses? But in the end the changes, of name, endings, and even guilt levels might have neutered the deeper meaning and that’s quite a shame.
A masterful analysis. I am acquainted with the "10 little indians" version. Indian - as in Native American or Indigenous peoples - here in the U.S. is a racially and ethnically charged subject also. With all the connotations of the genocide of the native populace of the Americas from this country's founding, (in the spirit of manifest destiny) or indeed the British colonization of actual India ! I think Christie's themes stay largely intact.
I don't think this has the same effect as the change to 10 little soldiers , or the like
and I;d say the work looses its teeth when such a theme as that is removed.
Curtain, the last poirot novel, also shares many of the themes of justice
With a brilliant twist and one of her best villains too
The best analysing of this book I have ever heard.
The 2015 adaptation with Charles Dance is excellent.
Agreed - it's also the only one with the lethal ending, a great adaptation of the confession letter
Yeah, I will always stand by the BBC adaptation, it was just as perfect as you could get it honestly. The changes I thought were very well done.
I agree. I acknowledge that the absence of racial undertones changes the feel of the story, but I will also say that it's closer to what happens to the book. If anything, the other adaptations that add happy endings take a lot more away from the story. No one was “innocent” and that was the entire point.
@@z2yn No it’s not. The Russian version uses the original ending and there was an obscure Iranian television miniseries that did the same thing.
@@icoleman150 Absolutely agree. In fact that's the reason why i strongly dislike the 1945 version, it misses the point completely and turns the whole thing into a standard and unremarkable story.
Dame Agatha wrote the play and changed the ending herself, as she did in Appointment with Death and Witness for the Prosecution.
I was looking to see if anyone said this before I commented it myself. I wouldn't say that anyone else "scrapped" the original ending, since Christie herself is the one who changed it when she adapted it into a play.
This is the most accurate and thorough assessment of Christie’s greatest work I’ve ever happened upon. Bravo. Your insights are brilliant and a stinging reminder that today we still cloak human barbarism under the cover of “justice” be it via atrocities like prison executions, war, or even the American argument for the “open carry of guns.” We human beings are and have always been savages. But we think our propensity for violence is actually an elevated way of keeping order. What a delusion!
I'm incredibly glad and thankful you're still contributing on CZcams, thank you for your work.
I grew up watching "Poirot" with David Suchet and once I got older I noticed the casual racism that rears its ugly head from time to time in the episodes. I don't know if this element was lifted from the novels, but it always gave me pause whenever characters told Poirot that he doesn't understand their English ways, or that his English is not good enough (in one episode Poirot expresses his condolences to an MP whose fiancée was found dead and the MP, the stick-in-the-mud that he was, tells Poirot that he should keep his upper lip stiff in order to have a correct pronunciation in English). Even though Poirot has been living in England for many years and was a respected member of society.
Also, what is up with the British and their disturbing nursery rhymes? I mean, who writes nursery rhymes about the plague, the Spanish Flu...???
In the novels Poirot often plays up his foreignness to mess with people. He takes advantage of prejudices in English society to seem less threatening or to poke fun at people and their hypocrisy. It’s actually very interesting. There are a lot of problematic things in the novels, and you don’t always know if they are there deliberately to point out how absurd they are. For example in “Death in the Clouds” the jury at the inquest of the dead woman try to deliver a verdict saying that Poirot is in fact the murderer. The judge refuses to accept the verdict and sends them back so it’s never 100% confirmed, but Poirot crackes a joke about it himself so it is likely. It immediately makes it seem so silly and ridiculous to ever suspect him just because he’s foreign, but it wouldn’t have been uncommon for that to happen at the time. She also does dabble in psychology and sometimes gets things right and other times pretty wrong. It’s pretty interesting actually.
Note that David Suchet is reading the excerpts from the book.
@@rckoala8838 Where? I know that David Suchet reads some of the audiobooks, but not this one. This one is read by Hugh Fraser and there are other recordings too, but not with David Suchet.
@@user-qj9en1kp1m I stand corrected. Perhaps it was wishful thinking!
"who writes nursery rhymes about the plague, the Spanish Flu...???" - you do know that Ring-a-ring-a-rosie is about the Black Death don't you? And that Humpty Dumpty was about the death of Richard III at the battle of Bosworth Field?
Ring-a-ring-a-rosie - for the red rings on peoples skin as a symptom of The Black Death
A pocket full of posies - people would carry flowers in their pockets to cover up the smell of death
A-tishoo, A-tishoo - sneezing was also a symptom of The Black Death
We all fall down - (dead)
Aha, it's been so long that I hadn't expected you to come back, but I'm glad you did. Really enjoyed your essay, so thank you and thank everyone who made it happen!
Welcome back! Glad to see you upload again
WHOA!! You're back!
Seeing a video from you after a long time, just made my day!
YAYYYYY it's so great to see you're uploading again!
I've been a Christie fan for decades, thanks to my dear mother. She had tons of paperbacks and I read every one of them. This presentation was extremely well done. Thank you.
(SPOILERS for Curtain: The Last Case of Poirot) The theme of taking justice by oneself seems to be something that Christie really like to explore, even the beloved Poirot end ups like that. The fact that Poirot ends up killing also means in the same way as Wargrave, both have to die after the execution. That trend kind of reminds me of An Inspector Calls, although deluded of the more political points of the theatre play.
Please don't stop producing content! This is hands down one of my fav youtube channels.
I stumbled across ATTWN through the Wii video game adaption. After I finished the game with a friend, I hunted down the novel/audio book and listened to it.
ATTWN is my favorite novel of all time. And I'm frankly surprised I didn't make the colonialism parallel despite listening/reading/playing/ various versions of the story. I honestly thought for over a decade that is was just a matter of when it was written.
I'm still okay with the change to soldier/sailor boy, mostly cuz at least the topic of the racism and how wrong it is of at least Lombard is still preserved across all versions. He killed 21 people, and Wargrave considers this appalling, just as much Vera's crime of child murder - heck, he pretty much had the 2 fight it out on who got to die last. Although I don't really see Lombard killing himself.
There's......... an adaptation on the Wii???? That's a sentence I never thought I'd read
One of my favourite book of mystery.
Noone can never create such mystery novel "And then there were none". Only Agatha Christie did it.
I'm from India.
a great essay. I think one of the most interesting on your channel and the most underrated.
The race and colonialism themes are what makes this book so damn important and poignant. I'm pretty liberal, but this is when political correctness runs a bit amok. Keep these themes in the novel! It adds a whole new dimension to this story that I didn't even know existed! The same with "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn"--that word is one of the main points of the novel! Keep it in! We're not children who need to be kept in a nice, sanitized environment. We get the author's intention!
true that. I recently reread the book (I first read the book as a twelve years old and I have a hard cover with the Indian Island) picked up on the points she brought up. As much as I love the play (a sucker for happy endings) , I love the book more because it shows the break down of class and race barriers. By white washing the figurines to make it tamed, it loses the point. I also noticed a gothic / slasher vibes from the book.
To change past literature is to pretend it didnt exist
I have in my small library an ex of the novel under the original name ! (that I can't write here or YT would delete this). I will keep it, not being any kind of racist.
@@eoinchaney7775 okay but we know the word, we know it's wrong, let's not pretend it doesn't exist but let's not encourage people to say words that are degrading to people. It's not that hard, just don't freaking say it. If we teach that it's a morally wrong word to say, we can still get the meaning of why that word was used in contrast to 10 white European people, because it's purpose was to be ironic. I think saying it is racist, because it absolutely is to say it now it's not just being woke it's that we should be advanced enough as a society not to call people degrading names given that those people whom the degrading was directed towards are still suffering to this day and it's not something we should proudly be saying period. I don't think we should erase the history of these words, like the "n word" because we need to learn from it's history, but it's human decency for people who are white to just not say it. It's not that hard people
This is coming from someone who in high school read Huck Finn, Their Eyes Were Watching God, & To Kill A Mockingbird. When we read it in class, we just didn't say it, just like any other inappropriate words like "bitches" "fuck" etc.
@@twinny_mi While I agree we shouldn’t normalize saying these words, I think we should still show how we used words to hurt and degrade people in the past. I mean if we should learn about the physical abuse people in the past suffered, then we should know the verbal and psychological abuse too.
This is exactly what I am doing my ap literature paper on: post-colonial criticism
This is a fantastic discussion on the novel; really well thought out and argued. I enjoyed it heaps!
This is one of my favorite books of all time, and your analysis is fascinating. Really well done.
SHE'S BACK!!!
Fantastic you're back again.
Agatha Christie is one of my favourite crime novelist of all time
This is a brilliant analyzation...Extremely well done, and now I get the true greatness of the original novel.
This video was so well formed and the quality is impeccable. Good job
so glad you've uploaded a new video!!!! can't wait to watch!!
Your video essays are the best on youtube, no joke. you have such valuable insight. I was extremely sad to see your spirited away video got removed. I would often revisit it
I felt bad for Armstrong. He had served in WWI, one of the men thrown back into society with no understanding of or for PTSD. And he didn't think it was 'okay' the woman died in his surgery; he completely sobered up after that.
Not that her dying in order to give him a wake up call is justified. .. I don't actually know what I think would be appropriate for him. I did feel bad for him tho, especially since he was one of the worst tortured on the island.
Finally read the book and remembered you made this! Love an excuse to come back to your work, brilliant as always, and relevant as ever :)
Thank you so much. Just finished it, so glad it wasn't spoiled for me. Your take on it makes an otherwise suspenseful story richer and more meaningful
This showed up in my suggestion feed and I'm glad it did. Some excellent analysis here. I hope you make more. 😊
I wish i had such a profound understanding of novels❤️
Excellent! Christie stripped away the veneer of "white supremacy" . She was way ahead of her time!
No clue how/why this wound up in my recommended but holy hell...I NEEDED this today. Thank you.
This is amazing to listen to. Thanks for all the effort you put into it and sharing it.
Thrilled to see a new video from your channel. Also, read the Patreon update, and I'm sorry this has been so hard for you. idk how much of the process has turned unpleasant and stressful, but if there are still chunks that you want to do, there are a handful of communities online looking for new ways to support each other and create this kind of content as a community. Your writing on here is seriously excellent, and if you're still interested in writing the scripts, I'd bet there are people out there who'd be interested in filming and editing them. With your permission, I'd like to share your channel in some of those conversations and see whether there are people who'd be interested in offering collaboration.
Thanks for the support! That's a great idea, if I decide to get back to making video essays I will certainly reach out to you. I think I'll take a little break first and see how it goes... knowing me I may not be able to resist writing essays for long :)
We don't have to guess at Christie's thoughts on justified murder. Murder on the Orient Express lays it out in detail. Poirot, with his non-English ways doesn't view their murder in the same way, and is a great demonstration of that dichotomy.
And in a way, when 'we" as a society justify casual racism and other moral crimes, don't we, too, become guilty of the consequences of these behaviors? Just a thought.
Thank you for bringing back to light--or more, preserving a tragically dying species, namely quality, or one might call " homus qualitus" if you like. I speak both of your carefully, even loving chosen subject pieces AND of your own fascinating, thoughtful analysis. Original yet still classical, your work absolutely delights me. I can't wait to watch the rest of your work, which I only discovered this evening. Thank you, my kindred spirit! Last, I fully agree about the racist theme in this uncharacteristic Christie work, so dark, so deep, so true. Well done and courageous framing I will not forget.
Thank you for leaving such a beautiful comment, Amanda. You're right to observe that a lot of love goes into my work... I try only to write about what feels actually meaningful and important to me, in the hopes of communicating to kindred spirits like yourself! Your message means a lot to me. Take care
Oh, this is a wonderful... wonderful... analysis on the novel. The best I've encountered so far. I'm glad I stumbled upon this video. Bravo👏👏👏👏
I've always struggled to determine exactly how much the narrative condemns Lombard's crime compared to the others'. It's definitely affected by having read Christie's other books, where there is often casual racism that doesn't seem to serve a narrative purpose. For example in Death in the Clouds there's this description of two young people on a date:
'It was one of those enchanting evenings when every word and
confidence exchanged seemed to reveal a bond of sympathy and shared tastes. They liked dogs and disliked cats. They both hated oysters and loved smoked salmon. They liked Greta Garbo and disliked Katharine Hepburn. They didn't like fat women and admired really jet-black hair. They disliked very red nails. They disliked loud voices, noisy restaurants and ['SOFT' N-WORD]s. They preferred busses to tubes.'
The way it's thrown in there in the middle of this mundane list, alongside liking dogs and preferring busses to tubes- maybe it is there for a reason, but I don't know what it is. But also within ATTWN, the only person who calls out Lombard's murderous racism is Miss Brent:
''Well, there is that Mr Lombard. He admits to having abandoned twenty men to their deaths.'
Vera said: 'They were only natives...'
Emily Brent said sharply: 'Black or white, they are our brothers.'
The fact that this comes from Miss Brent, who drove a young woman to her death because of her rigid morality- and only from her- doesn't, to me, suggest that the narrative wants us to agree with her sentiment. But I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.
I think Christie does agree with Emily Brent, essentially. However, she grew up and was writing in a time when it was perfectly normal and entertaining to say things like the passage you've quoted. "The Hollow" is one of my favourite Christie novels but it has grotesque anti-Semitism in it that doesn't matter a bit to the plot (it's entirely incidental in chatter about minor characters). I don't think Christie would have regarded it as anything exceptional. It does make for an uncomfortable reading experience sometimes!
@@HD-ol1mc You know, now I think about it, I think maybe Christie does rank Lombard’s crime along with Vera’s the way Wargrave does- but in a way that is, in itself, racist and colonialist. Vera and Lombard are left for last. What do their crimes have in common? They both killed people who in some way, from a colonialist perspective, needed their ‘protection’. Vera killed a child who she had a responsibility to care for. The racist, colonialist view of the time treated Black people as lesser, child-like and in need of guidance from white people, who therefore had a responsibility to ‘care for’ them, just as Vera had a responsibility to care for Cyril.
Lombard has that line about his actions not being those of a ‘pukka sahib’. The actions of a ‘pukka sahib’ would be to, in the colonialist view, care for those ‘lesser people’ under his control.
It’s also interesting that it is Vera who (I think twice at least) dismisses or downplays Lombard’s crime, because ‘they were only natives’. Maybe this is meant to suggest that on some level she feels his crime is comparable to hers.
@@HD-ol1mcNo, she would absolutely not have agreed with Miss Brent. That's why Miss Brent is among the 'victims' of ATTWN. AC absolutely hated bigotry. She once said that religion for her was an incentive to be a better person herself, but that she disliked persons for whom religion was a possibility to condemn other people.
I didn't get those racial themes when I first read Agatha's books. As you point out, for her, colonialism and the EMPIRE being good would just have been part of her life and completely accepted by her. If you'd asked her, she'd probably have said, "that's just the way things are." If you asked her about race, it would probably have been something she'd never considered, at least not deeply. That she touched on these themes at all show a rare intelligence. It also shows a grasp of these themes that is embedded in its time. The more I read her and know about her, the more I respect her and her achievements, but I'm also more aware of the casual racism.
Thank you very much for the video! You deserve more views. It is obvious how much work you put in making this
So fascinating and insightful!! There are so many remarkable points that you picked up. Such a riveting book and your analysis does complete justice to it. While I did enjoy the BBC adaptation, I agree that by adding more violence, they do take away from Christie's genius. The characters initially do not confront their crimes, but as their numbers dwindle, they come to face their crimes and percieve themselves as guilty.
Fantastic essay that really reframed my impression of the novel. Thank you!
Just found this video. loved it!! Hope you do more videos on Christie's work, im such a huge Christie fan (seriously surprised how little video retrospectives, reviews, analysis there on AC's works)
YOU UPLOADED. YAY
So good, I really appreciate your points made in this video. I have always loved how impactful this book was but you helped raise it even more. Thank you.
Wow, this is an amazing analysis!i thoroughly enjoyed it and appreciate it. Sharing with a friend. We were just discussing Christie the other day and are about to read another of her novels together.
Because of you i went and found an audiobook of the novel and listened to the whole thing just so I'd be up on all the references in this video. And WOW am i glad i did. I normally dont care too much about spoilers but i really would have been mad to have spoiled this story for myself. So puzzling and spooky!
Hi!! I love your video. I first read the book (this one had the Indian Island version) when I was 12 but I didn’t pick up what you brought up until recently. I got the class system break down but you brought up some interesting points. As I much as I love the play (a bit of Romantic at heart), I am passionate about the book because it shows the break down of polite society and poetic karma. Also, felt the setting evoked a gothic horror vibe.
You make exceptionally amazing content. I'd love to see more some day. I hope you are well.
This is my new favorite video.
0:01 Intro
3:28 The premise
9:29 “Death was - for the other people“
13:43 “Ten little soldiers“
18:55 Justice
25:56 Conclusion
Wow! This is excellent. You have inspired me to read this novel again. I must admit that whilst I knew of the title changes I did not realise that there were amendments in the text as the years went by.
book analysis’s like this should have like a million view god i wish more people read
Excellent analysis. Thank you for sharing this!
Also we are not overtly told why Vera was willing to step into the noose but I think Agatha shows bit by bit by bit how her psyche was worn down from an incredibly strong woman to someone who is hallucinating and no longer responsible for her own actions.
I never heard of the book until this week. Seeing the old black and white movie and watching your videpnessay has me obsessed now!
Outstanding and very insightful analysis and video essay. Thanks for uploading 🙂
This is the best analysis I have ever seen of this book -- and all the movies and TV adaptations. Witty edits as well.
this is by far the best analysis of this book ive ever seen.
This was fantastic. I’m so glad I subscribed.
Amazing video ! I read the book when I was a teenager and I didn't know why it felt so bleak but now I know and I really want to re-read it !
This was really well thought out and done. Thank you.
I wanted to ask you a question. Is there a platform you are still receiving messages on?
Really interesting analysis, which has certainly got a lot of people, ( including me) thinking. Well done!
Absolutely wonderful video essay :)
A beautiful insightful profound review. Thank you. I enjoyed it so much.
Awesome video and commentary. You nailed it.
One of my absolute favourites- great narrative, thank you🇦🇺👍
Hey! So I just wanted to tell you that you really inspire me! I really love reading and I admire how articulate and intelligent you sound. All of your videos are organized and get straight to the point. They always end up calming me. Whenever I have trouble writing an essay I watch one of your videos to motivate me. I read the book you suggested and murder on the orient express since I really enjoyed the first one. I think you should give out a list of books you really enjoy, I would definitely look into it!
Hey there! Thank you so much for this lovely comment. I know it was posted weeks ago, but I did get around to making a list of my favorite books and I wanted to share them with you. Here's the link on my Tumblr: plain-flavoured-english.tumblr.com/post/622829088579747840/one-of-my-subscribers-asked-me-for-some-book
I'm so glad you enjoyed ATTWN, btw. I've put another Agatha Christie on the list :)
@@isthisjustfantasy7583 Thanks so much for this. Right now I'm reading 451 Fahrenheit, so after I finish that I will buy The Secret Garden cause it looks interesting to me. Much love from NYC!
@@youlostthegame5313 I'm not crying, I just have a rose garden in my eye 😭😭😭
I am so glad I found you and so upset you only have a handful of videos 😔
This is such a good analysis of one of my favorite books!