Why TMNT: Back to the Sewer Failed | Series Retrospective (Part 7)
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
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At last, we have reached the seventh and final Season of the 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Retrospective. This time, we are covering TMNT: Back to the Sewer, an attempt to (once again) save the show from Fast Forward, an attempt that...did not work, for several reasons, and today we will explore why that is!
Check out the other intros for Back to the Sewer here: • The Lost & Unused Them...
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00:00 An Overly Long Explanation of Season 7
06:46 My Slightly Less Long History With It
10:02 What Stories Are Left to Tell?
14:05 Cramming In As Many Ideas As Possible
19:00 Ending on a High Note
20:38 The Ninja Turtles Problem - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Back to the Sewers may not be a great season but it at least gave us gamer Hun. Forget him and garbageman being brothers, this season gave us the real character development we needed for Hun.
Yes that was cool
I laughed so hard when I saw that episode
More then joker fearing the IRS
I laughed out loud when it was revealed Hun was a gamer, as someone who still didn't watched the show, this was so hilariously unexpected
Lol Imagine Hun Rage Quitting
He’s an alpha male gamer
The wedding ending was pretty sweet, and Hun saying that he's a "hardcore gamer" is unironically the best thing to come out of this season. Everything else I barely even remember though, it was just so boring to watch.
It felt like SuperMarioLogan's The Big Thanksgiving, though like that some characters couldn't make it: Tyler, Sydney and her buddies from the mutation experiments, the Triceratons, X-Ray, Jana, Kirby, etc. We know why they couldn't make it despite the fact it would've been nice for them to make minor cameos.
Yep
Yay it was amazing.
They dont even use the personalities or designs from this season in turtles forever.(nor the final seasons personalities or designs of 1987) the 1987 would be much more serious and the 2003 more relaxed.
@@_Tzer Or the og voices. Could you imagine Dan Green as Corrin in Fates?
What bugged me is that Cody was left in the future alone and that literally bugged me. I did love that he was watching the wedding at the end of the season, but that's really all I have to say about this season.
I suppose it's left to the viewers discretion that between Wedding Bells and Bytes & Turtles Forever, Serling went back to the 22nd century.
@@christianfrost8660yeah surling went back too the future
@@StevenJones851 It always irritated me that they didn't reference Serling's departure in the film. It would have been nice.
@@christianfrost8660 yeah its weird how they didn't mentioned it its so Annoying
Eh, he had Starlee.
The moment they gave the turtles pupils, my soul just left my body. I know I was making a mountain out of a molehill, but back then as a kid, the change was just too much for me to take. I liked the finale though - it gave me the closure I needed.
Agree, should have stayed white
Same I was actually having physical reactions of disgust to how much it disturbed me as a little kid. I got used to it, but to this day the images creep me out
NO MAKING MOUNTAINS OF MOLEHILLS!
Pupils shouldnt be a big deal and would normally work, but it's more the fact that they nearly look like typical big anime eyes that makes it look so off.
EWW GREEN EYES Jesus. How did you NOT find it weird that their pupils magically turned invisible when they were wearing their masks?
That scene with Hun saying "I'm a hardcore gamer!" honestly looks like a VO shitpost like that one with Prof Zoom and I love it!
Hun saying "I'm a hardcore gamer" is definitely one of those thing you would never expect to hear in your entire life
Definitely it's really weird but cool
And interestingly, his character is small and nimble, Niko.
I mean WHAT??
Back to the Sewers wasn't that much of a failure, there's still some moments from the season thatI enjoyed, but you can tell at this point they had no idea where to take the Turtles with so many interference from 4Kids and the toy makers that they had to end here. The pupils were a surprise addition to the designs but I got used to them pretty quickly. The wedding was the perfect send-off to the series.
How would they contact lord Simeltanus
Also by this point 4kids Was a sinking ship
@@Power11112 and sadly around that time Saturday morning cartoons were beginning their slow death 4kids being dead in 2012 and Saturday morning cartoons were officially dead with the demise of Vortexx in 2014
There are worse shows out there than Back to the Sewers showing on 4kidsTV at the time.
When I was young, I thought Splinter's new design was to do with him getting older. It has been several years since the show started, and the old rat was reaching the autumn of his life.
Re: Your commentary by the end. I wouldn't say the TMNT brand lacks longevity. Quite the opposite in fact. I feel the fact that most of these series had a slow death and lasted through for so long is more of a testament to their endurance. Even stuff like Spider-Man or Batman cartoons rarely have the staying power of good TMNT series. Like, this one ran for 7 seasons for almost a decade. Its no small feat. I can only think of few other franchises that make them shadow, like the DCAU or Ben 10. I think you were selling them short there.
Yeah, it honestly seems to me that I'm perspective, the series just eventually experiences seasonal rot, which is definitely an issue with any series that goes on for a long time. At some point sooner or later, they start repeating the same ideas because they don't know what to do with the show
I thought he said the issues have to do with longevity not that it lacks it, and he referenced other long lasting properties when he said that it is a problem others haven't suffered like them. Not problems because it didn't run as long but problems they specifically faced because they've run for so long
TMNT 2012 got to run for 100+ episodes over the course of 5 years and it got to end on its own terms. Very few Nickelodeon shows have that luxury.
Look at things like The Simpsons and Family Guy. Clearly both have longevity but are clearly pass their prime but the network keeps them around because they still make good money.
Where does TMNT go from here though. I'm worried Nick will just start doing new seasons of the 80s show just like marvel doing new seasons of the 90s X-Men show.
My critisism of the wedding is that many of the chracters at the wedding could crush shredder like a bug before the super heroes show up. I think it would have been a much better love letter showing that the turtles generally hung out with people who were stronger than them in martial ability, its the turtles ninja abilities that allowed them to stand next to all those who were so strong.
Who do you have in mind exactly
Because cyber shredder is kind of strong
@@painvillegaming4119 The ancient one, ninja council, then there are all the guys that are just as strong or slightly stronger than the turtles. like the rabit, rino, and leatherhead... although I thought it was a nice touch that in this series leatherhead was a good guy.
How should I put it ninja council all have super powers, it even shows one super speeder before the attack, but during the attack he does not use super speed.
personally i think it would have been way better if the foot got smacked down hard for messing with the turtles. but thats just me.
@@calebfielding6352 fair enought
The foot shouldn’t be a problem but cyber shredder he isn’t even human or normal
@@painvillegaming4119 even the ninja tribunal is not exactly human and the other 4 acolytes were also quite strong
@@sonaliagrawal3702 fair enought am even surprised they even went to the wedding
Something the show never really explored that I think was a missed opportunity is Donatello and Stockman make the most sense as direct rivals. Donatello was self-taught and had to salvage all his equipment from junkyards and repair them/cobble them together best he could, which is fitting because real-life Ninjas were very thrifty, they did not have access to good crafting materials. They had to make Shurikens out of carved coins and caltrops out of dried chestnut shells, most of their weapons were repurposed farming tools. Donatello most exemplifies that aspect of ninjas. Meanwhile Stockman had a more formal education and better access to newer and higher-end material. It makes sense to make a rivalry there, but there never really was. Casey had an explicit rivalry with Hun that was ultimately kind of underexplored. Leonardo had an okay rivalry with Karai. Raphael's rival was.... Leonardo and himself, could have given him more to work with. Michelangelo had even less than Raphael.
The biggest problems with fast forward and back to the sewers was that they tried something new with a interesting concept but flush things out like the original 5 seasons . In short fast forward really needed a better main villian and that second season . Back to the sewer needed a few more episodes , a better new shedder idea and make donatello's arc matter more
Agreed. I think it would have worked better with a new reincarnation of the turtles, then I'd have no issue with it. Personally that's the way I choose to headcanon it, like the storyline of the 2003 series ends on season 5 and the rest is just an alternate universe, then it's fine.
I actually had a headcanon AU of my own; one where the 2003 turtles team up with Lincoln and Lynn Loud along with Sonic and Shadow The Hedgehog throughout all seven seasons including Turtles Forever.
@@marioluigi3122 Good idea
Back to the Sewer wanted more episodes. Particularly they wanted a "Shredder War" arc between multiple Shreddere. But more episodes just means more angry, negative comments online.
The show got cancelled. But if it wasnt cancelled there would be angry comments about how the new eps are bad. Hence most networks cancel shows after 3 seasons
@@sumnahlennon5449Dame wish they did more with this stuff cool stuff and back too the sewers
I think by the fact that nearly everyone in the comments is also calling this season “back to the sewers” you are not alone in your misnaming of this season
It flows off the tongue better, really.
Blame the second movie, Back From the Sewers.
I think the franchise's issue with diminishing returns stems from the issue that comes with most action shows. The formula for most action shows is centered around a single over arching narrative. Once that narrative is done the best thing to do is to leave it there. Actions shows always fall apart when they try to stretch things out beyond that main Arc. Tmnt 2012 thankfully knew when to end and as a result ended on a high note.
Agreed. TMNT 2012 was supposed to end at season 4, that's how long the story was written to be; when Nickelodeon asked for season 5, I'm glad they went the route they did.
And why was shit often overextended? _Because it's TMNT._ Badass cartoon animal heroes. Toyetic AF. In other words, Playmates's primary cash cow.
Shows ending often result in angry internet comments. Firefly, Futurama, Static Shock, Batman Beyond, and even the RUMORED end of TMNT 2003 after Fast-Forward. As the show continues, like any long running show, it gets angry comments
@@CarbonRollerCacoWell, yes. They are still people doing a job. They were instructed to make a cartoon. They kept making episodes until getting cancelled or fired.
*People wanted a Teen Titans Season 5. Angry that it was replaced by Teen Titans Go.* Teen Titans Season 5 would of been ripped apart by fans and J's Reviews if it was ever made.
Its difficult to have a show go more than 3 seasons. Around Season 4 is when critics start bashing
Didn’t expect to see this so soon. Ngl though this retrospective was fun to say the least since 2003 was always my favorite tied with the 2012 show. And while btts is my least favorite season, I do love the ending of the series.
Yeah it’s been a fun time. Glad to see this show getting talked about again
Say what you want about this season, but the theme song is a certified banger
yesa
true
Facts
I think Donny is just too well adjusted to have a profound character arc. He's had some great solo episodes, like the tribute to that comic writer, the time he got sent to the future, heck, even his arc during the battle nexus series when he stood guard over poisoned Leo - but none of these events caused him to question or doubt himself in the way the other brothers have.
And I think a big reason for that is that personal growth is already one of of Donny's key personality traits. He's always trying to better himself, always asking questions, and because of this he's just a chill, well adjusted, dude. It's one of the reasons I like him so much, and I think it's why he's basically the heart of the team - why the team fell apart in the future without him.
Yeah Donnie already has other episodes developing him
the 2003 TMNT series is my favorite, but there was some unresolved plots, like king rat, cody's uncle in the future, the evil turtles, and the married soldier turned monster
Yeah, but it is what it is. And that's what fanfics are for.
the Final concept for BTTS came from "Norman J. Grossfeld" who was head of 4kids productions. 4kids productions was the production arm of 4kids Ent. there were two ideas tossed around in attempt to again to try to lighten up the show. one was a version where the turtles team up with younger versions of them selves and the other was the cyberworld idea from Norman. we went with the cyber one because it was the lesser of two evils we really didn't like either.
Norman J. Grossfeld has an interesting history he actually started writing jingles for TV commercials and he still like to do them when he was the 4KP head. He produced many of the openings songs for shows produced by 4 kids. In fact the opening song contest choices were all created by Norman Grossfeld.
Norman J. Grossfeld is amazing and he will return.
I think that the reason why none of the Turtles version has a staying power is easier answered then you think- its in the name. Teenage. Whether they act like teenagers or young adults in the show is a debate best left for another time, the best part of turtles is usually them growing up and learning how to be better versions of themselves. Leonardo strives to be the best leader, Michelangelo learns to take things seriously while also remaining positive etc. There's only so many times they can learn their lessons before it becomes boring and contrived, kinda what happened to later seasons of Ben 10, where Ben keeps reverting back to being an annoying kid and ruining what was otherwise a perfectly fine show.
Batman and Superman on the other hand aren't all about learning or growing up- the characters develop, but after the origin story they are more or less the same character all the time and main source of entertainment and growth comes from the world reacting to them. How many episodes of Batman revolved around the fact that criminals need to step up their game to match Batman? Or how often a villain was made to get equal to Superman? The growth of those heroes does exist, but it's much harder to notice unless you look really carefully.
Also while we are at teenagers, a very similar fate happens to Spiderman. Every adaptation starts with Peter being either completely new or at least just starting and learning as he goes, until eventually the well runs dry, the show either ends before that happens or has to transition to some outlandish concepts to keep being fresh, but eventually it ends and a new one pops out few years later.
tl;dr - it's a teenage rite of passage thing.
Now you just make me want to see J do a Ben 10 Retrospective
I don't know about Spider-Man because most of his series even his early movies are mostly start in his college years than high school. People really want a college year Peter back like Spider-Man PS4.
What Comicbook fans want Spider-Man getting married to MJ and having a child like in Spider-Man Renew Your Vows. But Marvel refuses to let him grow.
@@kingawesome5219 me too. Me. Too.
@@kingawesome5219 It's not in the same format but Kuro the Artist does one in the ink tank channel. Breaks down EVERY episode in detail, currently on alien force too
Batman: The Animated Series, the most seminal Batman animated series, lasted for 85 episodes. It wasn't the first Batman series, nor will it be the last. The 1987 TMNT series lasted for 193 episodes, the 2003 TMNT series lasted for 156 episodes, and the 2012 TMNT series lasted for 124 episodes. Each TMNT animated series save for Rise lasted a long time in Western action cartoon terms. TMNT is just one of those franchises that naturally divides itself into generations. A TMNT cartoon has the natural lifespan of 120 to 150 episodes before a break of a few years is needed, so that there can be a fresh continuity with a new audience. Fast Forward & Back to the Sewer as well as the 'Red Skies' seasons of the 1987 TMNT series were all attempts to continue a TMNT series past its natural endpoint. Rise, meanwhile, was a TMNT series made immediately after another TMNT series had ended, as was Ninja Turtles: The Next Mutation. What you describe just seems to be the natural recurring lifecycle for TMNT.
I'd be interested to see what sort of series TMNT could have on a streaming platform, where you can have something heavily serialized that is still always available for new audiences to pick up from the start.
And it should definitely dip into the mystical, the other-dimensional, space travel, and be unafraid to both let both new and old villains come and go more fluidly.
Indeed. I think that the conclusion at the end of the video does not ring true because, as you pointed out, 3 out of 4 animated shows had abnormally long lifespans for a cartoon, especially when we're talking about action cartoons.
To me the biggest problem with Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was that it came out way too soon. By the time I had finished TMNT 2012, I was ready to move on from anything Turtles and just taking a break. I grew up with the 80s show, watched the 2003 series, and followed TMNT 2012 since it premiered. It also did not help that Rise had some weak spots that TMNT 2012 avoided, so it didn't pique my interest when I first saw it. It honestly looked like the weakest entry in the series, which did not look good when the previous show grew to become my favourite animated incarnation of the Turtles.
I may take a look at the show someday since I've heard it got better later on, but it's unfortunate and not that unexpected that it lost steam faster than its predecessors when it came out right after the 2012 show.
@@Frozen_Death_KnightI think that coming out so soon after the 2012 show was a part of Rise’s problem, but not the whole story. The big issue was that they weren’t sure who their audience was. Casual fans were burnt out and ready for a break, but hardcore fans were alienated by just how different the show was from everything that had come before. Add in Nickelodeon shunting it off their main network and there just wasn’t a chance for the show to build a larger viewer base.
As a Donnie fan, I loved the "obsessive Donatello" arc, but the brothers could have tried harder to help him, and it accidentally made Leo (Splinter Jr.) look like he didn't care that Splinter was gone. Also Splinter's return at the end was so anticlimactic, it was just "get your furry ass in the van for the wedding."
"As a Donnie fan, I loved the obsessive Donatello". Because of this phrase alone, I strongly recommend you to check out "MNT gaiden". It's a fan comic, but not let this fact fool you. It's surprisingly well made and your boy Donatello has one hell of a character treatment there. I think you'll find exactly what you are looking for.
It should be easy to find online. Comment here later if you'll have any problems, i can drop a link if needed.
@@MultyMutant WOW, thanks so much for mentioning this! Had no clue this existed and it looks awesome.
@@Zephyr-tg9hu You're welcome! This comic is a gem and only gets better as it goes.
@@MultyMutant what one was it?? Link too Comic??
I'm laughing hard at "get your furry ass in the van for the wedding" 😭
I guess series 6 and 7 merged together in my head, because I always remember the Cyberspace stuff happening while the Turtles were in the future
The reason why the show style was changed was because the toy company did not want to continue to do toys in the style of the show. And wasn't going to make 2 TMNT lines in to different styles. so we would have figures coming out using the content from our show but looked like the movie.
That said we were not asked to change the style of the show for BTTS. But we in production made the decision because our show would be the thing people would be seeing the most regularly and it might seem odd that the show didn't match the toys.
Funny part is the only reason we even changed the show for fast forward was because of playmates. They wanted to do sci-fi toys and it was to brighten up the show after going so dark with season 5. For the last 2 seasons the toy company had a lot of say over things they wanted included and what they didn't want. The toys were doing well and the toy company was flipping the majority of the bill to pay for the show at this point. Where as previously the show was a joint venture payed for by Mirage, 4kids Playmates and Dong Woo animation.
A lot of BTTS was trying to make the hire ups happy. But if people really knew what we had to deal with Between budget cuts and demands from the hire ups on the last two seasons you would be surprised anything got made but we did our best. Even Peter Laird knew what we were dealing with and trusted us to try to make the hire ups and playmates happy. In the end we were on borrowed time the toys and licensing were doing well but they couldn't be without a show on air. Rather than do a reboot like the Nick shows did we ended up doing sort of soft reboots for FF and BTTS because they didn't want to pay for a whole new show to be developed.
Didn't expect to see this today, I must say. Do you mind if I chat with you in DMs on twitter? I am working on the Turtles Forever video and figured your input would be valuable.
So you guys ruined the show from season 7 by changing how characters and the intro looks like in an awful way. You can come up with the worst story line ever but if the characters and the intro.. looked the same as season 1-5 people would watch it with love still. You guys ruined it to make money with toy makers. Still thank you guys for making the show but I'm pointing out things and informing you as a fan what we wanted, and we got wasn't what we wanted to see
@@Benjaminsquad391 Actually the changes weren't by the production team, this was a studio and toy company decision. Production would have been just as happy continuing to use the same designs; it would have been a lot less trouble than redesigning. The darkness of the show was a huge issue. A bunch of episodes from season 4 kept coming back from standards and practices with notes and changes. Standards and practices became a lot more strict over the years and content that was previously approved was not approved for air on later episodes. We kept getting so many notes the studio started to worry and we had a huge meeting about how we could lighten up the show. First it was a visual lightning for season 5 biter color etc.
We still had the same issues with standards and practices in season 5. At the time the action figures were still doing well which was chiefly keeping us in production so they didn't want to cancel us. The idea was to reboot and age the show down for younger audiences. When the hire up saw how much a full on reboot cost they went with a soft reboot coupled with the fact the toy company wanted to do “Sci Fi Future” toys.
Our budget was cut so to maximize the animation budget we went to simpler character design. There would be no alternate palettes, every character would be colored in day colors even at night and our music would see as little new music composed as possible. We not only were working on season 5 but simultaneously we were designing the soft reboot. It was taxing on the teams and it caused a rift between the studio who had been doing color design for our show since the early seasons.
During the editing of season 5 the studio made the decision to skip to season 6 and end all production on season 5 Hence the lost season 5. But we did not have a lot of season 6 complete so they aired what was completed of season 6. Later mirage studios and 4 kids paid to complete season 5 to fill in the block while later episodes of season 6 were getting completed. So in your head cannon you could just say that season 5 was the end of the show. We actually did give that season a definitive ending for the series because at the time of creating it we didn't know what would be next. But Lloyd always had a way back in. Even back then it was the Shredder war between the incarnations of shredder on our show.
The one thing to understand about properties like tmnt is that they are complicated and there are alot of hands that have a say over what gets made beyond just the property owner. A lot of times working on shows is dealing with the crappy hand you get handed by the people with money and making the best of it. Trust me it could have been way worse. But Looking back I regret none of it. We did our best with what we were given And Peter Laird trusted us to do what we could to fix some of the garbage we got tossed over from the folks with money and smoothing any issues standards and practices had with the content..
Anyway Happy 20th!
@@Benjaminsquad391 Bruh...are you blaming them?
@@Benjaminsquad391Bruh, you know they are people doing a *JOB* right? Their *JOB* was to follow directions of the Toy Company. At a *JOB* you follow boss' orders. Know what a job is, and have you had one? Yes, money is necessary if the Toy Company is funding their cartoon
This is how this series goes out, not with a bang or a crash but with a meh, which is probably the worst way to do it
But Gamer Hun makes it worth it
I wonder why ending on a meh note is worse than a crash? Wouldn't a crash be a lot worse?
A crash would be more memorable, a meh wouldn’t really be all that memorable.
What an anti-climactic ending for what was overall a phenomenal series. But at least we went through 5 solid seasons before getting 6 and 7, and the "main" part of tmnt2003 wasn't cancelled early or altogether. Not every show can boast about going forward for nearly 5 years since its debut, some don't even survive to season 2
Tbh, I feel like ROTTMNT and Nick's rendition of them should be given their own separate retrospectives.
Does anyone agree?
Shell yea
Yes
I'd be surprised if he didn't eventually, J goes very in depth with this stuff.
Yes 2012 is my favorite version
I am honored to be the 69th like
Despite its flaws, BTTS did bring out some stuff, like the Purple Dragons becoming more of a crime syndicate instead of street thugs thanks to Hun, an arc of gathering Splinter's data bits through cyberspace, and Cyber-Shredder. Also, I think I was one of the few people that enjoys the redesign because I was still hung up on the 2007 film of TMNT when the season came out lol Plus, there were episodes that made the season very fun to watch (Superquest, Identity Crisis, Wedding Bells & Bytes, etc.)
Same despite its flaws it had some good stuff
I feel like Back to the Sewers is better then Fast Forward, however while Fast Forwards issue is that it goes on for too long and felt directionless. Back to the Sewers' issue is that it has an ongoing plot of rescuing splinter, but is too short and speeds through it too quickly. (literally the second to last episode Raph just mentions Leo and Donnie are getting the finally pieces of Splinters data off-screen.)
Yes no doubt that Back to the Sewers was rushed.
They do the same with dubbed anime
Fast forward went on too long while back to the sewers was rushed.
But fast forward would have been much better with that second season.
I agree. It's sad since the solution here is simple: Splinter should have been split into data bits during Fast Forward, and then the arc of getting him back could have been stretched into S7. That would have given S6 the plot it needed, and S7 the time it needed to develop that plot.
@@Zephyr-tg9huFans were rushing Fast Forward off the air which caused abrupt changes. The Toy Company panicked. Fast Forward was meant to have a new season but the angry internet comments rushed it off the air demanding a return to the sewers environment.
Back to the Sewers was once again ripped apart by rabid fans and cancelled. This is why most Networks cancel shows after 3 seasons
the 2012 TMNT,was the only show they let ending on a high note instead of stretching out to the max like they did with the other incarnations of the show,but the greedness to sell more toys instead of letting the brand rest for little end up hurting the next reboot instead, making Rise of TMNT felling to gimick,and being release too early for his own good
Okay, had a night to brainstorm and here are my ideas for better, more character-driven Back to the Sewer episodes/arcs:
Michelangelo: Mikey really misses Cody and the world of 2105 where he can walk in broad daylight without causing a panic. He finds a portable time window and is overjoyed to be able to go between the two eras at will. However, he keeps it a secret from his brothers fearing they will take it away for being too dangerous. One of the villains steals it and nearly erases the Turtles from time, causing Mikey to concede that the window really is too dangerous to keep and destroys it himself.
Raphael: Raph is getting depressed by the fact that his patrols don't seem to have any impact on crime. He teams up with Nobody who teaches him to be a 'Terror Hero' similar to what he was up to in the 2007 TMNT. That ought to placate the Marketing Tribunal. If there's time we could explore how a lot of the punks he fights are disaffected teenagers like him (see: the 1990 movie).
Donatello: Following up on his earlier depression arc, Don pours himself into inventing a powerful scan program to search Cyberspace for Splinter's data bits more efficiently. It also detects a sentient program who becomes friends with Don and is interested to learn about the real world as Don is to learn who created the program.
Leonardo: Karai is fighting with Kahn for control of the Foot. Leo helps Karai out but takes a serious hit to the previous spot on his shell, re-opening the wound and racking him with so much pain he can barely walk. The others are furious with Karai for causing this, and she tries to make amends by helping them gather the ingredients needed for an ancient Foot healing salve to permanently fix Leo's wound. The salve leaves him a bit loopy and he accidentally confesses his true feelings for her. Afterwards, Leo becomes more open to playing games with his bros than usual, having experienced the harsh truths of their combat-heavy lifestyle.
Splinter: Cyber Shredder locates the data bit containing Splinter's anger and enhances it, giving it a form of its own that attacks the turtles when they try to retrieve it. This is heart-wrenching for them as the 'Berserker Splinter' loudly vents everything he dislikes about his sons while attacking them. He defeats them, but it turns out even the very darkest part of Splinter's psyche is incapable of harming his sons. Instead, he beats down Cyber Shredder then reverts to normal, releasing his rage.
Phenomenal!
One thing I noticed when I was revisiting this in preparation for the retrospective (the whole series is on youtube at this point) was the cut of original animation in the intro song for BTTS. I can't unsee the jar between new and old turtle designs there even if its just a single cut of them jumping off a roof.
Could you please send d me a link to the series
@@bethbayless5652 The Channel is named "TMNT 2003" on youtube. If you cannot find them it could be a country based thing, otherwise post back and I'll get a direct link. I searched exactly that and it was a little ways down the page, you'll probably one of their playlists. I saw season 6 pop up myself.
I know it's pretty easy to just say "Blame the Higher-Ups for interfering" for 03's decline in quality in terms of the writing but on this occasion they were definitely the ones at fault.
That’s part of it, but notably Seasons Six and Seven started pulling in new writers while older ones moved on to other projects. That probably had a big hand in why the show felt different
@@magnusprime962 Could also be the case that the new people wanted to make a good first impression and did everything their bosses asked of them.
I remember watching Turtles Forever almost every day when I got home from elementary school.
It was just so good to my kid mind and I still hold it to high regards. But thinking back upon it now just shows me how much stuff I've seen as I've aged. Really got a good nostalgic moment out of me
BTTS is pretty cool. One of the perfect details is in episode 10, when Mike defeated the Cyber Shredder by Splinter's Method in season 1. And intro is the best.
I don’t know why they thought giving these turtles pupils was a good idea. These designs clearly weren’t made with eyeballs in mind, so it looks super uncanny.
The theme song slaps though. I actually like it over the OG theme for Season 1-4.
I didn’t get to see most of these episodes back in the day until they started playing them on Cartoon Network and now after years of not being able to watch all of it my hubby found me a full blue ray set of the entire series. And I agree it is awesome to watch it all over again reliably and fully. My favorite series ever coupled with the first two original movies.
I had some fond memories of Back to the Sewer. I enjoyed the Cyber space episode, the Fantasy game episode, the episode where Casey got hypnotized, the episode where Mikey fell into a vat of slime and new mutants are rampaging, the proposal episode, and the wedding finale.
Watching all these tmnt reviews was really mind blowing I learned a lot about tmnt 2003 and I hope you do other tmnt reviews I really wanna hear your opinion on 2012 and rise
Same
I think the major issue TMNT has is it feels like they are trying to cater to kids and instead of making it fun it does that thing where they think they know what kids like. You can tell with each version of TMNT that there is some heart to it but I think there's this underlining control that makes the creators give it that iconic feeling that they should have the movie.
Honestly I always loved how the world expanded, new stuff, dimensions, space, time travel, multiverse, etc. actually that’s what made love the show
I never saw Back to the Sewer but after watching this retrospective I'd say the main downfall in the later years was Executive Meddling. Fast Forward airing before S5 hurt the show, and with FF ending earlier than planned & BttS being pulled in so many directions by 4Kids and Playmates it was clear that doom was inevitable. Obviously having a show go on too long without a clear end-game in mind is a bad thing, but I think in this case things could've turned out better had the writers been allowed to write the proper stories they wanted without being hampered so much by outside influence.
For what it's worth, this season does have probably my favorite TMNT quote of all time: *"Bridesmaid!? Give a turtle a little respect! I'm the Maid of Honor!"*
(Michaelangelo talking to April before the wedding in the final episode.)
I liked this season for the whole cyberspace motif, reminds me a lot of Megaman Battle Network. That and Scottie Ray’s Shredder steals the show with the voice and design.
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This season may not be very good. But that intro though. It’s absolute 🔥🔥
Like start with Donnie , doing the exact math of how splinter was scattered over and over again while training . He gets distracted and messes up , when his brothers asks what's up at first he says he's fine and goes back to research . The first couple of episodes Donnie should grow more distant from his brothers until when called out on his behavior he snaps similar to how Leo did and then Leo tries to help him through it similar to how master splinter and the ancient one did for him since master splinter wouldn't be able be able to
The only thing about this season that ever was memorable for me was the finale. Having all the Turtles allies appear for a wedding is great and all but having the wedding be a thing the entire series was building to with each season was just the icing on the cake. I always smile watching the end in particular. Your comments against it are true and I have a lot of questions for it that you said yourself primarily why isn't the shredder after the Utroms you know the people he hunted for and tired to kill for such a long time? But that doesn't ruin the enjoyment. The rest of this season is just bleh. Honestly I kinda wish them coming back in time and Wedding Bells and Bits was just a movie length special kinda like Turtles Forever to conclude Fast Forward and have the last few enemies of the Turtles attack once again in order to kill them once and for all. If they did that then it would be a lot better than adding a season for no reason. As for the note of the death of this series and of TMNT I feel more hopeful in the idea that no matter how low it goes the franchise will always rise back up and try something new or at least try to continue even if it is not the most popular anymore. The franchise has staying power it's why some many version exist but I suppose it doesn't have the power to last to long in the public eye and will fade before the next take on it is created.
Agreed
Hello, I really loved your series on TMNT 2003, it really brought back a lot of nostalgia from back when I was a young kid. Thank you.
“Wake up babe. J’s Reviews uploaded a new TMNT video!!”
After watching “Back to the sewer”, I realized how great it would’ve been if the Fast Forward got the second season, and if it had concluded with the turtles returning “Back to the sewer” continuing their adventure. That way the creators would have sticked to the original versions of turtles and we would’ve have had a perfect conclusion for the whole show. But they gotta sell them toyz I guess!
Hopefully, Turtles Forever can get a sequel movie in some point in time and if that does happen, hopefully the 2003 and 2012 series’ will be as respected like the 87 series did in the 2012 series.
I quite like Back to The Sewers more than Season 5 and Fast Forward. I do appreciate that they tried to go back more seriously and serials stories. But it had a lot of potential being great if they gave more breathing room.
I also think that this franchise has a problem with Shredder. After he is defeated in the series is very directionless and didn't have a main bad guy. They have three different Shredder that feels the same. He is also the recognizable villain of theirs.
Essentially, what direction does TMNT have when your main villain is gone. I feel this is a huge problem with this franchise because a lot of people feel this is the end even if continues with him or not.
Really great overview of the 03-07 Turtles and its sequels. Ironically by the time Back to the Sewers came out the Turtles had become a shell of themselves. Maybe a reason why DC & Marvel based properties could lasts longer quality wise is because they have more heroes. What I mean is that Ninja Turtles doesn't have 20+ heroes to use so they don't have their own giant team like: Avengers, Justice League, Shield, Teen Titans, X-Men, nor big cameos. To be fair after the DCAU ended I think their next big success was Teen Titans which at the time was a relatively unknown name
And by the time Teen Titans went on Hiatus, we had Young Justice and that whole DCAU
I personally like Back to the Sewer. It's fun, and the first 5 seasons being a complete package means I can watch this one separately without it impacting the original seasons much.
This has been a fantastic series of videos my dude. These shows were my childhood and it was awesome watching each one of these retrospectives you've put out. My hats off to you for all the work you put in to these and subsequently all the other retrospectives I've watched since discovering this channel.
My only regret is not being able to purchase all the episodes the 2003 of TMNT anymore either Digitally or Physically.
As someone born in 2001 that grew up watching the 2003 show & fast forward on dvd & had almost all the old toys & loved the TMNT movie i had no idea they even made this
I feel like the series would have easily lasted as long as the OG show, if the writers had been allowed to do their thing.
Continue season 4 with season 5. Move onto season 6 and let it have a continuation season, move on to season 7 and let the Shredder wars to wrap up the series. Maybe bring in Dregg or Krang as new villains in seasons beyond that.
Also as for how the three Shredders seemed to be on equal footing, the Cyber Shredder is clearly stronger than the Utrom Shredder, and the Demon Shredder might have been nerfed via mystical ways, and not have been at full power, where as the Utrom Shredder may have upgraded his suit internally.
As to how the Turtles could keep up with the Utrom Shredder... beats me. Maybe they are just that familiar with his move set?
Leo was training more in FF
Love all the reviews!!
but yeah this season was kinda not good, but the final episode where casey and april get married is still a good episode and send off, cuz at least it feels like a proper finale
I hope that you eventually check out 2012 because in my opinion it is the best one simply by how much it did with only 5 seasons. There were a lot more character growth, ninja facts and for the first time they wrote the turtles with the idea of being actual teens. I do agree with the most other fans though that the brotherly banter and rough housing goes from funny to mean as time goes on, and Michelangelo was ruined as character. Even with those 2 major flaws I still like the show very much, even though I grew up with the 2003 turtles
Back to the Sewer…never seen it so this episode should be interesting. Thanks so much for this retrospective J! Now I think I’ll check out some of your other retrospectives!
Another good vid! ^v^ I really enjoy how you give stuff a fair chance and don't just blindly bash or rant. It makes the vids more enjoyable to watch, and I appreciate that about your channel. Really hoping that after this we get more TMNT vids from you - especially a Rise of the TMNT vid, both because of how underrated (and overhated) that incarnation is, and because of just how much of it seems to connect with 2003 due to co-creator Andy Suranio being such a big 2003 fan (the Battle Nexus, mystic turtles, demon Shredder, Draxum being similar to Bishop but wanting to protect the yokai instead of humans/the Earth, and even the small things like Splinter being an avid TV watcher).
I just want a complete DVD set of all seven seasons and Turtles Forever
The comparison in tone shifts for the '87 and '03 cartoons is a great juxtaposition to show executive-level meddling too. I agree that Fred Wolf Films/David Wise and the '03 writers/producers strived to make fans happy while pandering to their bosses. It's just full circle that after season 6/7, CBS wanted the original show "darker" and after three years, it silently ended. Then you have the producers this time wanting an opposite "lighthearted" kind of show, which was a contributing fatal factor. All in all, I wasn't disappointed when the '03 show ended. I think it had done everything it could without overstaying its welcome. My only legitimate gripe with the show is how exaggerated the '87 turtles were with the goofiness in Turtles Forever. (Although they captured Shredder and Krang almost perfectly IMO) I wish Turtles Forever had been a miniseries rather than one TV movie.
13:30 If anything, Utrom Shredder was more concerned with how his opponents left the fight.
Utrom Shredder: None of you will leave here ALIVE!
After seeing the first part of this retrospective in my suggested a few times, I finally decided to watch all the parts over last weekend and going into the middle of this week. Great review series! I remember watching several episodes of the 2003 series, though I never saw Fast Forward, Back to the Sewers, or even Ninja Tribunal for that matter. I found these videos to be very entertaining and informative. Great work! Though I haven't watched my DVD of Turtles Forever yet so I'll probably wait until after that to watch the review.
This was the one TNMT season that I actually watched in full and it really felt weird from the other episodes from past seasons. This whole season was like the shark jumping the moon while riding a cow with how much was put into it and it made my experience of the season feel off. Always felt the eyes were very creepy looking when I first saw it.
Back to the sewer was my first introduction to the turtles! It was on before pokemon and I used to wake up early to watch them both. I know it's not the greatest season but it always has a special place in my heart, especially the theme song
I love these. Thank you for providing me with comfort watches of the series.
Your videos are great, really brought back a lot of memories and nostalgia and while you were talking about the btts trying to make the season Don's ark I was thinking back on how Leo was after the final battle with shredder and then ended up thinking that we never saw Karai's pov, cause we see both of them have changed but we only get one side of the story. So my point here is it would have been really interesting to see more of her character, for me she was really mysterious and entertaining to watch and she really is one of my favorite characters over all, so I personally would have loved to see more of her and her character development.
Id really love it you made a retrospective on the 2007 movie! I also grew up with it and love the shit out of it
Me too. Anytime it would come on I'd sacrifice whatever else I was gonna watch t o watch and re-watch it
I have been loving these videos! Can't wait for the next series
This was a great CZcams series. Felt like a trip down memory lane of my childhood
After Tutrles forever I would really love to see a batman brave and the bold or ben 10 retrospective
This series was so amazing, such a shame that the last 2 seasons suffered from so much studio meddling. TMNT 2003 forever.
That is true, but it was not the only reason. It also suffered from the usual show problems, like the show going on too long to the point where it got stale, even with the gimmicks like Fast Forward's future setting, as well as the fact that most of the kids who saw the series would have grown out of the Turtles before this point.
Plus, it did not help that 4Kids' Saturday Morning lineup moved to the CW, and by that time, kids were no longer watching Saturday Morning cartoons on network television, instead turning to cable channels like Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network.
I usually skip the ad reads but I like this ad read especially the end. It's a nice touch :)
I'm so gonna watch it in the morning. So gonna watch. Can't wait.
Back to the sewers isn’t great in my eyes and was pretty forgettable. However it did give us some kinda cool designs to me and it had a really good opening. Seriously love this opening a lot, not my favorite Tmnt opening but it’s so good.
The opening is only thing I remember when I was kid
I don’t think TMNTs “cosmic” elements have anything to do with the show dying, I think that’s actually the norm for tv shows because as long as the shows making money somehow, the studio is going to keep forcing more episodes to be made. Unless you have an endgame in mind amd force the show to wrap up like Avatar did, chances are it’s just going to linger on until people loose interest.
Damn, I didn't even know Sho Kanabo was the main villain for Fast Forward, much less remember he even existed.
Love the wedding bells episode. It's always a good thing to see a series have a proper send off, makes following it all worth it, and worth remembering.
17:45 out of every season of TMNT this moment plays in my head at least once a month😂👍🏽 glad you mentioned it super funny moment for Hun!
Don never really needed as big of a character development arc because, to me, he felt like he wasn't that sort of personality. He was a scientist and engineer, he can distance himself from things a lot easier than the others. So when he sees technology cause Splinter to be scattered and, as the technological turtle, he can't stop it, it makes sense for it to hit him hard. This is HIS area, this is what he does. But he failed. It's like Raph finding an enemy he can't beat, Leo's leadership being called into question or not being able to mentor his brothers (season 5 is a good example), or Mikey constantly struggling to keep his brothers' sanity in check with his antics but constantly being put down as not taking things seriously. They all have unique triggers that cause them to doubt themselves, lash out, and become depressed. But they also all handle it differently. Don is much more focused than any of the others when he gets serious about something, and he does it in a healthier way than Raph. He doesn't get emotional like Leo or Mikey, because he understands that will block his progress. It's one of the things that makes TMNT so engaging to watch, because it's not about four characters who get along all the time forever. They are four different characters with different goals, ideals, personalities, and priorities.
Really good character essay on Donnie. I agree he’s definitely more reserved and he wouldn’t let his emotions tamper with his work
The best explaining that i ever saw about next ninja turtles personalities 👌
I would have thoroughly enjoyed a season seven that focuses on fast forward I think they were setting up some interesting plot points with the dark turtles in particular back to the sewer for me just didn’t have any interesting driving platforms but I don’t think it wasn’t bad just OK
Its amazing that when I decide to watch the Fast Foward Review yesterday, this one came the next
I am having such luck myself
Loving these retrospective honestly
Great Video J
Oh how i wish we could all go back in time to experience this series all over again😊
I honestly feel the series have slow deaths cause of two main reason the new fans grow out of it and go on to enjoy newer shows as they age and the older fans lose interest as the show attempts to change for newer audiences
I loved this series and retrospective, man. Looking forward to the finale.
I have loved this series so far man looking forward to the Turtles Forever vid!!
I don’t think this season killed this version of TMNT I think it was just an unfortunate side effect of Nick buying the Turtles which seems very likely
Weird how you think TMNT doesn't have that much staying power compared to the shows you mention when TMNT animated serieses went longer than most of the IPs you mentioned
Ikr. He says it doesn't have powers but then shows spectacular spiderman which ended at episode 24.
Your videos are the best. I thank you for taking the time to put out masterpieces on topics I personally love. The Timmverse and This series are my go to videos to watch if I have trouble sleeping or bored at work. TMNT 03 was a great underrated choice. HE-MAN 02 OR Jackie Chan Adventures would be cool or anything marvel or dc thats a animated show.
I appreciate you caring about your work and not following the algorithm. I will always go out of my way to support your channel for having the balls to do you and put out hour long videos when most people don't even spend a full hour on CZcams. I wish more CZcamsrs and creators in general were more like you
One aspect of back to the sewers I did like was actually the cyber portal, or more that it's a show of what happens when you mix genius, future knowledge, guilt and determination together, but thinking about it they could have done more with Donatello's arc but overall, by this point it is just a bit of fun something to watch to pass the time or if your bingeing the series.
What you said about Rise of the TMNT not gaining a following was more to do with outside influences *cough-nickelodeon-cough* messing with when they put it on and basically not giving it a chance. They did the same thing with the Legend of Korra, and wondered why both shows didn't have as many viewers as their predecessors.
I actually really love the theme song for this season. Especially in comparison with the other themes that were suggested by 4kids
Yep.
Sadly yeah this was the weakest season. I was so checked out by this point, the episodes were dull and generic. The only somewhat cool things were the cyber designs for the Turtles, Shredder, Hun and Stockman’s redesigns, and the finale when every character came back… but even then, we see characters like the Tribunal overwhelmed by Cyber Shredder.
Just not a good season sadly.
That theme song opening is probably the best of all the seasons. That’s the best part of this season.
"That's right, I'm a hardcore gamer! Always have been!"
I cannot describe the noise I made when hearing Hun say that
I thought the cyberspace stuff was pretty cool. It was a neat way to make this season stand out from the other seasons. Too bad mostly everything else from the season was executed terribly.
I'm loving this series!
But do you think you can go over Spectacular Spiderman?
Would like to hear your thoughts
17:51 oh god he got the infinity gauntlet AND he a hard core gamer, HE IS UNSTOPPABLE
9:49
Honest
This just feels like what it happened between Power Rangers Turbo and Power Rangers In Space
The Season Finale could pretty much be the first episode of In Space, and we get to see an episode recap on In Space first episode
Next time Turtles Forever!