Review: Profitec Pro 800 Spring Lever Espresso Machine
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Marc from WholeLatteLove.com reviews the Profitec Pro 800 spring lever espresso machine. Plus, get a good look inside the machine and check out its' internal components. Lever machines are know for producing espresso that's often described as softer, smoother and sweeter than espresso made on pump driven machines. Marc's review includes a close-up look at some bottomless portafilter extractions on the Pro 800. Find out how the machine differs from other spring levers and about advantages those differences offer.
Learn more and purchase here:
www.wholelattelove.com/produc... - Jak na to + styl
We are coffee roasters and just got this machine in 2022 Sept. My first impression? WOW! What a fine piece of equipment to start. The build is German engineering at its best. The coffee is amazing once dialed in. I am still experimenting with it and I am sure I will continue to. But its a cafe centerpiece and a dream to make coffee.
Hi GC, Thanks for sharing your impressions! It does make amazing coffee!
Marc
Germans make great devices wish they would teach the Italians how to build reliable products.
Hopefully not like Audi or BMW, otherwise we are in trouble with lot of issues after warranty…
@@victormoreno2767 you never owned a brand new BMW or Audi, and you're frustrated that you never will, that's why you're trying to spread BS...
Hope you don't make 100% arabica light roast disgusting blend that they love in usa, this machine deserve better thant a 5 gallons acidic "coffee"...
Well, my one year ownership experience with the Profitec: amazing machine. No issues whatsoever and I’m used to the lever to a point that I cannot imagine ever going back to a pump machine. It makes the coffee ritual that much more involving....Also, I have noticed that cheaper beans I liked in the past have been underwhelming or bad on this machine while premium coffee excels in it. It seems to get more “layers” of flavor out of the beans, so bad coffee beans taste worse and good beans are way better tasting then when using my pump machines. All in all : highly recommended in my opinion!
Some other notes (maybe someone finds it useful) : I use a 14 gram basket for a single shot, filled with 11 or 12 grams of coffee. Preinfusion 7 or 8 seconds. I pull the cup away when the lever is straight up. PID temp is around 120, degree lower in summer, degree higher in winter.
Hi kk, Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I'm sure others will find useful!!! Please excuse my delayed response. Just returned from Italy where I visited the manufacturing facilities of Profitec/ECM, Ceado, Bezzera, Izzo and Rocket Espresso. I'm a firm believer that lever machines are capable of producing some of the best espresso due to the way pressure ramps during an extraction. While in Italy Alex Izzo (namesake of the Izzo Alex Duetto machine) gave our team an amazing demonstration on a lever machine producing some incredible shots into a saucer from coffee he roasted. The crema was amazing - still there in the saucer 10 minutes after extraction. Look for video of that demo coming soon to our channel.
Thankyou buddy, yeah indeed i think that the lever machine is something special because of the looks but I don't have any experience with the taste of it. Well we wait for the upcoming video of whole late love then i wil make a decision.
Thanks Mark - brilliant explanation, easy to understand and reason to love the idea how to make sweet coffee !
Hi AL, Thanks for the comment! Lever machines do extract what some feel is a sweeter and fuller shot.
Marc is awesome. For the life of me, idk why someone hasn't hired him to be a head news anchor.
Thumbs up for this and all your awesome vids WLL!
Hi GR, Thanks for the comment. Some years ago I was in house voice talent for local television. When I was a kid I wanted to be a TV meteorologist or do the voices for planetarium star shows.
Marc
Whole Latte Love that’s so cool!
Probably because he likes the words he says to be based on truth and reality
Thanks for a terrific review. I am very eager to see a comparison with the Bezzera Strega.
Hi SVD, Thank you for the comment. That's a video we hope to do soon - stay tuned!
Hi Marc! Thanks for constantly monitoring our questions. It's very helpful! How would you compare the steaming power of the 800 vs the Synchronika?
Hi Anson, You are welcome and thank you for the comment and question. IMO the Synchronika has more steaming power. In fact it's best in class for this type of machine with the steam boiler able to run near 2 bar. Depends on where you set the temp of the Pro 800 as to actual in boiler pressure but it will be far lower than 2 bar. Also changing the boiler temp in the 800 will change your brew temp. Hope that helps!
Marc
I have 2 questions. One is that I want you to explain this pro800 over syncronika(I've been thinking this for a month and now It's killing me!) 2nd is the steam pressure. Is it changed into 2 bar like sincronika?
I wish the PID was visible since the shot timer built into some of them can be very handy.
Hi ITWW, I hear you. A couple things to keep in mind... If plumbed in the pump never comes on and timers are typically tied into pump electronics to start. Timing though useful in some ways is not so much a thing on this machine type. Manual levers are considered pure and traditional. One quite literally pulls a shot. Guessing some may feel a digital display on the face compromises the aesthetic.
Marc
How does the 800 compare to the Bezzera Strega in terms of build quality, reliability, and serviceability? Espresso produced? Is there a clear favorite between the two?
I really want to put a lever machine on my coffee cart but need to find a NSF rated one. Would the Profitec Pro 800 do the trick or should I continue the hunt?
Since I got this machine, I was not able to get thick layer of creme on my espresso.
I tried to change temperature, dosage, grind setting and pre-infusion but all there wont help. I had tried all those methods with different beans, fresh and old.
I believe the problem from the pressure, because it only produce very thin espresso drip during extraction.
I use EK 43T grinder.
Hi MA, With quality beans and a dialed in grind this machine is capable of making a crema rich coffee. What beans are you using? How long in seconds is it taking to extract a double 2oz/60ml shot? Check out this video in which we do a 12 shot progression using bottomless/naked PF to appraise grind/dose/tamp techniques on the Pro 800: czcams.com/video/rHG1EWbrk9Q/video.html
i want it.
Mark, is it normal for spring lever machines to need a second pull to extract a two ounce double? Thanks...
Hi Randy, Thanks for the question. Generally no. You can do another pull to add more water and up the extraction pressure.
Marc
Also, here's a link to me pulling a series of 10 naked shots on a Pro 800. Some with extra pulls and other technique variations: czcams.com/video/rHG1EWbrk9Q/video.html
I bought a Ceado E37S from WLL a few weeks ago. It's a beast of a grinder. I almost bought the Profitec Pro 800, but I wanted a two group spring lever machine. They are difficult to find and especially one that will fit on my countertop. I purchased one and cannot produce greater than one ounce regardless of the grind from the Ceado. I have tried from a fine setting of 4 to a loose grind of 8. I have a Puqpress and have varied the tamp from 20 to 40 pounds and everything in-between. Every single pull produces 1 ounce unless I double pull. Which is the reason I asked the question after watching your demo video. @@Wholelattelovepage
Hey Mark, love you brother for being a big help with our difficult questions as always. I have another one for you.
I got the Rocket Evo R and i just sell that one because i wanted something better. And now it's hard for me to choose between Ecm Synchronika or the Profitec 800. Or do you suggest any other machine that is one of the best for home use?
Hi AKM, Thanks for the kind comment and question! The ECM Synchronika is my favorite dual boiler machine in its class. If doing milk drinks it has best in class steaming power so that could be a consideration. In general, the Synchronika is faster/easier to use the the
Pro 800. Some people really like the espresso made on a manual lever machine like the 800. Lever shots tend to be sweeter with an extraction profile that starts with a pre-wetting of the coffee, then pressure that ramps up quickly then tails off at the end of the shot. But lever shots are a little more technically difficult to pull off well. If you plumb the Synchronika you can do a line pressure pre-infusion prior to turning on the pump. Also a version of the Synchronika in the US with a flow control device on the E61 group: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-with-flow-control With flow control you can mimic a lever shot and extraction on machines like GS3 or Slayer by adjusting the flow during an extraction. Here's more about the flow control from Roast Magazine's Daily Coffee News: dailycoffeenews.com/2019/04/10/whole-latte-love-and-profitec-ecm-launch-flow-control-device-for-e61-groupheads/
Marc
Whole Latte Love you r the best buddy thankyou for taking the time♥️
Whole Latte Love dear Marc, the flow control is out of stock on wholelatelove website. Any idea when we can expect it again?
Found something you may like to see
czcams.com/video/X6xFCdRT0m8/video.html
Hey Mark! Correct me if I'm wrong the massive group cool down steam temperature water for correct brewing temperature? The same effect as on simple Pavoni's Europiccolas? And also you can brew and steam at the same time with the machine.. right?
Hi P2K, Yes you can brew and steam at same time. Also correct that the massive group cools down boiler water to brew temp. I was running PID for 250F/121C in boiler with ambient temp of 72F/22C. Have you used lever before? Got to say the sweeter smother shots definitely are a thing! I did some Papua New Guinea 1600 meter coffee as well as some Lavazza Top Class side by side on this machine and a Pro 700 and there was an easy to discern difference - even with the Lavazza TC!
Yes! I have Europiccola in my home and at first I couldn't understand how is it that the Steam is always at demand while with my Silvia I had to wait for the steam temperature to rise first.
Doesn't this machine tend to overheat after couple of shots made one after the other?
Same question i asked myself also but, thinking a bit deeper when shots are brewed, new "Cooler" water comes after, thus helping it maintain the set temperature and preventing overheating. The thing I'm not quite sure is, how can you control how much it will "cool" down the water to the correct "stated" temperature if its overheated during the brewing process...Looking forward to Todd and Marc having an in depth review, as i was considering getting myself (after 2 years saving) for the Bezzera Stregga and this comes just in time to see how does the 2 of them compare for my Christmas :).
We have yet to test actual brew water temps when pulling shots rapidly. Our Scace wasn't available when I was shooting. But we will be! I have seen the 800 pull shots back to back every 2-3 minutes for 20 minutes straight. One would think it would start to warm up a bit. On the other hand, your only adding about 60ml of water to the group with each shot. That's not a lot when compared to the 17lb. mass of the group. In my testing I pulled 5 or 6 doubles with only a minute or two in between. To my taste I did not notice an increase in bitterness from first to last shot - but that's highly subjective!
Hi Ruben, Actually the water coming into the group is overheated and the group cools it down. The Strega uses an HX boiler so water (if you don't do a cooling flush) is overheated. Also Strega cannot do a true low pressure pre-infusion. Its' pump runs to fill the group and will apply its' full pump pressure to the coffee in the cocked lever position. Temperature surfing with a flush variation is probably easier and definitely quicker on the Strega than adjusting PID on 800 and waiting for it to passively change the group temp. Kinda comes down to what's more important to a user the low pressure pre-infusion or quick temp surfing?
Hi Marc
Can you talk a bit more about the dipper boiler? how is it compare to HX boiler and/or dual boiler?
Thanks
Hi HY, Sure. The dipper uses a tube from about the center area of the boiler which feeds into the group. When the lever is pulled down water is pushed by boiler pressure into the group. The lever groups are very heavy so large thermal mass. As hot water from the boiler travels into the group its temperature is modified/reduced by the thermal mass.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage
Hi Marc, Thanks for your reply. I am considering getting an orchestra nota or profitec 800 for my new home, how do they compare to each other? I do want a machine that makes great espresso and I also play with latte arts sometimes. any recommendation? what are the differences between these two? (except the E61 and lever of course)
Hi, I have not used The Nota so cannot speak from direct experience. It's an E61 group machine and I do use a lot of similar machines. Lever shots generally use a different profile than typical E61 group machines. Levers start with a good no to low pressure wetting of the coffee as the lever is brought down. As the lever is released pressure builds rapidly. Then, as the shot progresses pressure ramps down. In general, I'd characterize lever shots as having the ability to produce a potentially sweeter more syrupy shots when used well. As always a lot depends on the coffee and the skill of the user in regards to grind, dosing and machine operation. Pulling lever shots is a more involved process for the user. In a way you get a closer connection to the coffee.
Marc
Hi Mark, I like to drink dark, medium and light roasted third wave beans. My grinder is a Niche Zero. Do you think the Pro 800 would be able to handle the acidity of light roasts and produce sweet shots or should I go with a Pro 700 + flow profiling? I'd prefer the manual pulling of the lever and the longevity and repairability of the Pro 800 but I'm not sure if I would be able to pull a good tasting coffee with it.
Hi Florian, I think flow profiling on the Pro 700 will give you more flexibility with that (huge) range of beans. To tame the acidity in light very fresh coffee you'll have to do a lot of holding back of the lever on the 800. If you have not already check out my live stream from yesterday where I used a Pro 700 with FC on a lighter, fresh high altitude coffee to reduce acidity/brightness: czcams.com/video/suux3RrbAxA/video.html I'll be using flow control for different situations in my next 4 streams which I do Tue/Thu at pm EST. A sweet bump profile on 5/5, Working with dark roasts on 5/7, Lever shots without the lever on 5/12, Coffee shots on 5/14
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Marc, so are you suggesting that using a lighter roast on the Pro800 wouldn't be as easy to pull the shot as compared to the 700? could you elaborate more on what you mean by having to do a lot of holding back the lever? is that to prevent it from going up too fast?
Thanks for the explanation. Will this machine be suitable for a small cafe? (15 people max) and any other recommendations I should check?
Hi NP, It's possible although not technically a commercial rated machine. You might have a look at the Gaggia TS which is a very affordable commercially rated machine suitable for lower volume use: www.wholelattelove.com/products/gaggia-ts-espresso-machine
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you for your helpful response. I am considering the Athena leva.
Hi Mark. I've been watching your videos a lot!! especially to compare the machines between pro800 and synchronika. 2 days ago I bought the synchronika from WLL and it's on its way now. The reason I bought the synchronika is that the sales lady told me that I can upgrade the synchronika with flow controller. Do you think that I can make a shot to the level of pro800's with that flow controller?
Hi JL, First, thanks for your business. You will love the Synchronika! I'm curious what machine you were using prior? With the flow controller you should (with some practice) be able to simulate the extraction characteristics of a lever machine. Basically, you would use a very low flow at the start. This is like pulling the lever down on the 800 prior to release. At that point water saturates the puck without pressure. Let that low flow go for say 5-10 seconds. Then turn the flow control to max. This simulates releasing the lever on the 800. Flow/pressure build rapidly to max through the middle of the extraction. About 2/3 of the way thru the shot reduce the flow to mimic the falling pressure/flow you'd get with a lever shot. That's the basics. Of course variables like, timing of flow changes, grind and dose weight will play into the extraction as well. You might consider using a scale to weigh your shots as they progress to arrive at specific brew ratio. Lever shots tend to be more dense so a lower brew ratio like 1:2 for coffee to finished espresso weight.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Ive been using Jura so far. This is my first semi auto machine! I dont understand the ratio 1:2. Could you plz expain more about that?
@@jaekwanlee5877 Ratios are pretty simple. You need a scale to work on this though. You dose 18g of ground beans into your portafilter. You get 36g of espresso from your extraction. 18g : 36g is a 1:2 ratio, very common for espressos. James Hoffman has a nice video on ratios on CZcams, check it out!
hi marc... question if you were to run the Pro800 off of the reservoir, would the pump turn on EVERY time you pull a shot? or would it only turn on after x# of shots pulled to refill the boiler?
also, for the drip tray, the permanent collection area, does that connect to a hose? i'm thinking to put the 800 nearby my sink since that's the only place where lever won't get in the way of the cabinet doors. so it would be neat if i can just connect it to a hose and have it drip directly into the sink.
Hi e, Thanks for the questions. The pump should not come on with every shot when running from reservoir. Hard to say exactly how many shots due to variables involved. Yes you can connect a drain line. The drip tray is drilled and has a black collection cup underneath as seen in product photos here: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-800-lever-group-espresso-machine
If you're that close to a sink you must be near a waterline. Plumb the machine to waterline and the pump will never come on. And as I always say plumbing a machine and never filling a reservoir again is a life changing experience!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Yup i'm thinking the same to plumb the machine. but that would involve drilling a hole in the countertop... wifey no likey. haha..
i was thinking maybe i can run a water line from my Watts UF3 filtration system through the countertop, so the hole i drill will just be a small hole, then using a quick connect to connect it to the stainless steel breaded line to the machine. would that work?
eosme that should work
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc. if tapping water from the filtration system, would i need to install a pressure regulator valve in between or would the water pressure out of the Watt UF3 be enough (40psi ish) for the Pro800?
Hi Mark! Which kind of pump fills the boiler? Vibration or Rotary?
Hi dendoud, The Pro 800 has a vibration pump for filling the boiler. But, if plumbed to water line the pump never operates. www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-800-lever-group-espresso-machine
Thank you very much for your quick reply :)
dendoud
No problem! You're welcome
do i go for the orchestra nota, profetic 800 or the rocket r60?
I'M VERY DISORIENTED
Hi SS, Tell me more about what you want in a machine. Why sre you considering those 3?
Marc
Hi Marc, loved the video and your channel. Very through and helpful. I was wondering if you have heard of the Londinium by Reiss Gunson (Spoiler alert : hes a tool), and know why people would ever look at that, this is cheaper then Londinium, has a bigger boiler, PID and just seem like a much better build. Am I missing something?
Hi AS, Thank you for the kind comment! I have not used the Londinium so can't speak from personal experience. The website was a little short on details. I definitely prefer PID to pressurestat for tighter temp control although in lever machines with their heavy groups any swings are probably tempered. Their site did mention a user adjustable pre-infusion which is curious?
Marc
Abdul Sharief It’s pretty rude to call someone a tool if you don’t know them. The Londinium has technology in it that is pretty different from the Profitec. Some simple research would teach you that.
Can you brew and steam milk at the same time?
Yes you can. Sorry for delayed response. Just back from vacation.
Well Mark looks like 3rd times a charm 500, 700, now I think it's going to be the 800 I have researched other brands and profitec looks to be the best of the bunch and 3 portafilters
Hi Mark, Thanks for the comment. The 800 is a machine aimed at espresso purists. And, Profitec/ECM machines are IMO tops in quality!
Marc
Does this machine require a straight water connection only or does it also have a fillable water tank?
Hi Iceman, The Pro 800 does have a fillable reservoir underneath the cup tray.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage in your personal experience for shot quality and consistency Pro 700 with flow control or Pro 800?
@@Iceman-xe7jo A lot depends on the coffee used. Lever shots tend to be more syrupy and sweet with the right coffee. While you can change variables on a lever shot you do not have the range of options available with flow control. Lever shots can be tricky with the initial high pressure. Hope that helps!
Marc
Sir, how would you dial in coffee grinding with pro800
Hi MM, Here's my video on dialing in. It's the same regardless of machine type: studio.czcams.com/users/videojOY7D02n4Cw/edit?Fmy_videos
Marc
for these dipper setup, what temp range would you recommend to set it at for medium and dark roast?
Hi LL, Thanks for the question. General guide to temp is to lower as the roast gets darker. Best bet IMO is to taste the coffee. If you feel it's more bitter than it should be then lower the temp a few degrees, brew and taste while keeping other variables like grind size, coffee dose and extraction timing/volume similar. Hope that helps!
Marc
are all lever machines heat exchanger? any lever machine that is dual boiler?
Hi rc, Thanks for the question. I'm not aware of any dual boiler manual lever machines.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc. i really love the Pro800, but it's just too damn huge. i have a small counter space. any other lever style you would recommend?
Loved the machine, in my honest opinion I think the suggested retail price is a bit high, especially since its not a Dual Boiler Machine and its copper. Also Profitec made this machine too big for the consumer @3.5L (almost 1 gallon) plus the lever, both not counter space friendly (specially for wives). I'm pretty sure its the best way to control the pressure thus coffee taste, but price is not cool. Also i didn't understand how PID works on this specific model.
Know what you mean about the wives :). And true, not an inexpensive machine. PID controls boiler temp/pres. Through passive heating of that massive group it is ultimately in control of brewing temp. One would probably make some adjustments to the PID based on ambient temp to arrive at the desired brewing temp.
hi Marc, the PID reading is in temp/pres. ? is there any other one group spring lever machine on the market that features passive group heating and low pres preinfusion ?
I guess i can't be manufactured smaller, since the lever could tumble over the machine if not heavy enough. Commercial lever machines are WAY heavier and the lever effort is almost the same on all brands.
What is the point of different with bezzera strega mr. Marc???
Hi FiI, Here's my video on the Strega for comparison: czcams.com/video/MXlzUW_bfII/video.html
And, here's a link to a side by side specification comparison of the Strega and Pro 800: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTkyNjcwNTIxMSwxNTQ1OTk5MzE5MDk5
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks mr. Marc you are nice guy
Heat up time for that monster boiler?
Boiler up to good temp in 20 minutes or so depending on ambient temps. But, will want it on a lot longer, say 40 minutes to get that massive group up to temp.
Hi Marc, sorry for asking out of topic. I have VBM HX mc.the boiler is ready in 10 minutes(heating lamp off, reach 1.1 bar), but the coffee brewed is not hot enough. Should I, as you said above, wait longer for the brew group to get to temp ?
Hi Ko, No problem asking. Yes, would most definitely let the machine warm up longer. 30 minutes or more would be ideal. Also have the portafilter in the grouphead while the machine is warming up.
Thanks for your advice, Marc.
My pleasure!
Real nice machine, but unfortunately doesn't make a lot of sense when an L1 can be had right now for around $2,275 after shipping and fees. Personally, I wish they had made a Pro 600 based on the Pro 500, with a little longer drip tray for stability, at a size and price most would prefer.
Beans and Rice : Don't really agree here. The Londinium uses a HX system, not a dipper. Also, smaller boiler size, no plumable option, not a 1 piece construction, no cup heater, inferior (non swivel) hot water spout and lack of dealer support where I live make the choice easy. Although I have the utmost respect for the owner of the company and the products they make. But saying it is superior to the Profitec....no, I cannot agree. Different animals alltogether.
So WLL didn't understand how the Strega works after all...
Are there any advantages in this one boiler design for descaling?
Hi Eric, Easier to descale than a dual boiler. But, use properly filtered water and you can eliminate need to descale in the first place. Our recommendation for plumbed machines is the BWT Bestmax Premium. More info on water filtration options to eliminate descaling in this video: czcams.com/video/1v9WSIXtpos/video.html
Marc
Marc I appreciate your feedback.
I have been looking into small Italian automatic water softeners. What is your take on them?
Hi Eric, Sorry for the delayed response. Many softeners use sodium to do the job. I prefer filtering which handles particles, chlorination and other chemicals with carbon and exchanging calcium with magnesium to reduce scaling potential.
Marc
Thanks Marc.
No machine can reach its level.. It's ok you can close all the coffee machine factories... This machine is the best in the world ! And that's a fact!
Hi eg, You really do love the Pro 800 a whole latte!
Marc
Are they expecting me to pay 2.9k for a single boiler? Pass!
Hi DD, Technically a manual lever is single boiler but it's setup in such a way as you can brew and steam at same time.
Marc
Whole Latte Love Wdym? They always are?
@@jamesb.ofdesertdistrict567 A regular single boiler can only brew OR steam. Not both at the same time. It has to heat up for steam or cool down for brewing. Exceptions are heat exchangers.