I'm sure that a few of our regular viewers will be surprised to see that I now have a co-host for this channel, but I do want to thank Max for his amazing contribution to this tiny, non-monetized channel.
Hello everyone! I'm Max, one of your co-hosts, and I'm thrilled to be here with you all. We're excited to share some interesting content with you - from laughs and learning to complete annihilation of all organic life on earth by my co-host Posh Arthur.
It's nice to see fluorescent lamp (i.e. argon and mercury) spectral lines. I remember them from my time in high school (ca. 1980) where I volunteered to repair a physics classroom spectroscope. It had a 60 degree prism, two optical tubes at adjustable angles, and was just missing an eyepiece, which I substituted by fitting an objective lens from my 8mm film camera. It was basically the original Bunsen's design from ca. 1900. Good resolution, as long as the slit was kept narrow enough. I could clearly see the double line of sodium, as well as Fraunhofer dark equivalent in sunlight. Compared to this, the resolution of the two spectrometers reviewed leaves a lot to be desired, especially the small one. I believe TLM-2 design relies on interpolation to such a degree that its results are somewhat misleading. It likely shows any number of close lines as if they were one, as long as they fall on the same pair of pixels of the light sensor. In other words, it will calculate a weighted average of wavelength and add up intensity. So the high accuracy for a sparse spectrum probably belies much lower resolution of a busy one. Try it using a neon lamp, which has a lot of lines close together in the orange-red part of the spectrum. It will likely not resolve very many of them.
I will be doing exactly as you suggest with a Neon lamp source. As part of another video I'm working on, I will be discussing how to use these cheapo spectrometers to identify elements. I'll post a pic I got from the TLM-2 on the community tab in a few mins, keep an eye open for that!
Woah, I had to check to be sure this was the channel I thought it was. I'm all for trying new styles and approaches. Glad 'Posh' Arthur wasn't fired. His dry humor is important.
I no longer have a commercial need. But my scientific mind wants one to be added to the selection of it it can be measured I want to be able to measure it. As a former repair technician in the analog days of video and early digital cameras I had to have a calibrated light of a known color temperature. The cheapest way was to use 12V halogen downlights and run them at 14.8V where they only had a short but useful life.
If this is just a COM port, surely you can just write translation layer and use something like ArgyllCMS. Or whatever software to your liking. Edit: Would have liked to see the insides. But I see that coming. Looks like another camera sensor. Would have thought a linear scanner CCD as better, but I guess optics would need to much better then as well as a size increase. Please keep finding these gems. Edit2: Would you mind testing these for color calibration (I see their software does do something for that with xy coords)?
In the green laser the 808 nm is the actual LED wavelength. The light gets converted to 1064 nm (fluorescence) in a Nd:YAG crystal, and after that passes through KTP crystal which doubles the frequency to 532 nm.
@@Peterkramer929that's basically exactly what it does. The math works out super close to both input photons only being half the output energy respectively. Even more fun, there are processes working the other way round! Look up SPDC and you'll be even more impressed :). Back in the days I built entangled photon sources by the use of UV lasers with a Type 2 BBO crystal. The process occurs only rare times and most of the UV passes straight through. Some UV photons get split into 2 red photons, also being orthogonally oriented in their polarization plane. You can "easily" dm Separate them by using Pol filters :D
Looking forward to 2nd video. Would purchase a few units if software was fixed. Rescaling window size, remembering parameters, and outputting CSV data are obvious must. Thank you.
This video is quite a surprise. Well done! I was considering ordering the Little Garden device through a third party company but I'll wait until part 2 of the video is released and draw my conclusions then.
Great review and cool device! Looking forward to seeing the second part! I'd suggest that non-proprietary parts of the user interface software be open source. The difficult parts are the hardware and any secret sauce they have for calibration and signal processing. The UI parts where the processed output data is displayed should be open so users can customize it or integrate it with their own tools. This would also allow users to contribute features and bug fixes back to the official UI project, improving the product for everyone.
I want to get one as well. Having a CSV data output would be great as well because then we can run in through other applications or just save it in a database for future reference and calibration.
You'll run into a dead end pretty soon when you can't to anything with the data you measured. Agreed. Not a total dealbreaker because that thing in that price range is less a scientific tool and more a fun nerdy gadget
Thanks for the in depth review. It's a very interesting product, it would be much nicer if the apps were had the basic functionality working really reliably. The mobile apps need to find the unit faster and the PC app needs to remember settings. A USB C socket would be highly appreciated too. P.s. Please retire the slow robot voice and refrain from repeating the same information you just said when you switch to the spectrum results.
Correction @20:00, the green laser pointer uses an 808nm pump diode to drive an Nd:YAG medium that outputs 1024nm... you may see residual emissions in both of these underlying frequencies, though the KTP only doubles the 1024nm source light.
I'm looking forward to the second part. For sure I am interested in the device, as long as the manufacturer does not intentionally cripple functions just to charge more without justifiable costs - I've given up on FLIR thermal imagers beacause of such behavior. One more question that was not raised in the video: why use an USB mini-B connector in 2024?
There is a USB-Serial converter inside the cable housing - my guess is that because the mini-USB is not common, it help to reduce the number of people that are likely to plug it directly into a USB port...
Wow, this is a great new format. Love the brothel scene😂 That little spectrometer looks good too, shame about the bugs you identified. They would be easily fixed as you mentioned. Be nice to have better resolution, but I suspect that may be a physical hurdle to overcome without adding an FFA (Fudge Factor Algorithm). Well done for a best ever video👍
I built a crappy version of the little garden based on your tear down from the last video actually. I wanted to get one badly, but figured that it was too difficult so I tried to pull it off. I didn't use the monochrome camera, as I could find one (recently I got one, but haven't done anything with it), that said its quite limited, but was super fun to make. I love these videos, they make you think about products.
OK, so I had a lot of very detailed discussion with the creator of the 'little garden' device. It seems I made a mistake in my original video. He is not buying monochrome camera (that is too expensive, due to the very low demand) but manually cleaning of the Bayer Filter. I have a lot of respect for that guy and will be including a whole segment on him in the next video.
I also tried to build one myself - it really made me appreciate the 'little Garden" device a LOT more. Sometimes, its the journey that is more interesting than the destination...
@@project-326 that would explain a lot, haha I spent hours trying to figure out if I bought the wrong camera module. Cleaning the Bayer Filter sounds like delicate work that take a lot of effort. Cant wait to see the process!
Some of your extra peaks are artifacts of the way these spectrometer works and not actually in the light source. You can confirm this with some filters.
Nice device. It would be nice to have a machine readable export format. And it would be nice to have higher precision of the small device combined with the finer resolution of the bigger one.
If I had time for that, I'd look into possible hacky modifications. Those devices send their simple data packets over the com part without any encryption. Don think their company would like that approach tho. But that's what happens by making silly decisions the customer has to life with.
Yes we need a data export file, that is if you are trying to promote people to uses this in applications other than pretty pictures. That said, since i get to say something that might help in development, could you please cut the music loop, to hear the same thing over and over really made it hard to get to the end of the video and i certainly will have issue with part 2. Otherwise, nice.
Like you said, CSV export is pretty important. The other thing I'd like to see is the software being open source so there are no questions about its safety.
I love your channel and just wanted to make you aware I prefer long fourm videos. Making the videos shorter trims out your humorous side and the depth of the information provided.
Very nicely explained and demonstrated! I wanted to look for different lines of emission from pure hydrogen spectra; particularly of Balmer & Paschen series. I wanted to get assured about the same! Or whether we were just thought to be so! Thanks.
That is exactly why I like to make experiments on this channel, nothing beats seeing stuff for yourself, even if the results are way less impressive than from a professional lab. The reason people still buy telescopes is for exactly the same reason, nobody can beat the Hubble of JWST images but those are someone else's results. Seeing a tiny, dim, fuzzy, monochrome image of the rings of Saturn, with your own eyes, beats all of those beautiful on-line images from the pros. I'm going to look into finding a low pressure H2 tube...
I have that exact 450 nm pointer. It is not a DPSSL, it's direct eiode, so there should be no IR emission. I would suspect the same for the 410 nm, not that DPSSL is impossible, but they would cost more than 10x as much as a direct diode laser. Looking at the spectral width, I am fairly sure these should both be direct diode lasers. You should be able to tell by which way the batteries are inserted, or, you might be able to open them up to see the module. The 532 nm, however, is indeed, more likely, DPSSL, pumped with an 808 nm IR laser, so that is reassuring... however, the artefacts for the near UV lasers is concerning to me. I'm 98% sure something is wrong with the spectromeret... higher order diffraction or some other interference, rather than an issue with the laser. Still, though, both products are interesting to me. If they are available in the USA for under $150, I'd seriously consider these. If they go higher than that, they'll already be in competition with other super-low cost spectrometers that seem to have fewer reported bugs.
Yup, if figured that out from some other comments. I will be making some corrections in the next part of the video. Thank you for the corrections, learning is something I never want to stop doing and having people that know something I don't, point out mistakes in the comments is a positive experience for me.
Yes, I hope that they can fix these deficiencies. I'm interested in purchasing a low-cost spectrometer; I have a product I'm developing that I need a tool such as this to explore the light sources I plan to use in it! Upfront: The Functionality and Price will be determining factors in my purchase decision. I agree with the criticism about the software's abilities, they need to be improved. Please, do spend some more time to polish it up before releasing. Even the ability to connect to that 3rd party's open source software might be a good way to get it there, just a suggestion. I think it is wonderful to have an opportunity to communicate and be part of the community that helps shape the product's we use! And for the manufacturer, it must be a great opportunity for you to get direct and useful feedback by the customers. In any event, I'm looking forward to part 2 and see if we made a difference. Thanks a bunch!
yes, I am hoping that the manufacturer will be responsive too. What I really like about this unit is the size. It now lives in my work bag on a permanent basis...
There should be CSV output, but I wonder if the pdf might be able to be "read" by Chat GPT which would output what it "saw" in your format of choice? Edit: I just tried it with Claude and it told me that the resolution of the chart I gave it wasn't good enough for accurate reading. I'd like to see the PDF output of this instrument. If high enough resolution it may work.
This kind of affordable spectrometer is really useful for lighting designers and others invo!ved in architectural lighting design for confirmation of product specification. Also increasingly important in other areas of professional lighting such as photography and videography. So far the product seems pretty good for our kinds of use with sufficient resolution and accuracy. Typically the output format in PDF isOK if we have enough detail and refencesto ISO and CIE standards however CSV is necessary For calculating colour fidelity and also for melanopic effectiveness through standard tools freely available from IES and CIE. Price in the market is also important as will be thelevel of calibration against traceable standards to NIST or other international standards. Also how about recalibration? If it is cheap enough and calibration from new is warrantied for say 2 years then replace that would be good enough if the unit is cheap enough. Currently I need to replace my existing spectrophotometer as the company who made it are out of business and it cannot be recalibrated also there is no software support for it
You are right but... Once I started playing with spectrometers, I just keep finding new things to point it at. Something so small and low cost, even has applications for professional lighting, even for YT creators. For me, it was like a Swiss army knife, that one accessory you never used until one day finding out what it is actually for and then realizing how useful it is.
@@project-326 thinking about it, if say it’s built into a phone then it could be useful as a fruit/veg freshness picker. On an XY robot could be used to step scan artworks for potential mismatches/fraud. At low cost could be used in ATMs as another way of checking for fraudulent bills. But probably the best application if it could handle range could be for industrial level robot agriculture where the robot checks the spectrum of the plant leaf to work out its health and use this to determine individual plant care. Another (but would require significant investment to certify) is skin scans for cancer - I’m assuming different types of skin cancer would have a different spectra to normal skin.
@@daverei1211 Spectrometers of all types just have a wealth of information to give. That is why I now carry this device almost everywhere I go. Its great for the kids, we can see something and then the kids, they get a great visualization of what light actually is when they are playing with it. My 10 year old daughter has now understood that 'white' LEDs are actually blue LEDs with 'yellow stuff' that makes other colors.
I ordered the little garden from China after saw you video - its working surprising nice. Also I prefer you keep the robotic voice instead of real human voice 😆😆
I’d be interested in seeing flame tests of some chemicals just for variety. Not table salt, but something more complex. I could see buying one of these when they have CSV, although I don’t need it.
I have to tell you about my favorite named color of all time! I was looking at paint samples at the hardware store and the best name was “Bluish.” How overstrained from inventing new color names does your brain have to be to say “Well, it’s not blue, but it’s blue-ish”?
@@project-326 Here's to hoping. I wonder if someone will make an open-source SW for it, I think there are already a couple out there that I've seen people do builds based on.
Regarding the green laser: The small IR peak is from the IR pumping diode which then goes through two crystals which do the frequency doubling, etc. This green laser appears to adequately filter out the IR but many do not. Edit: You mention this with the violet laser. I see this video took a while to put together, LOL
Thank you, I have already be 'educated' in that aspect by another kind viewer. The thing I like best about making these videos is that there are always people with more knowledge to learn from. I didn't realize that the green laser was a 3 stage process. Its amazing how much technology can be crammed into a $10 laser pointer...
@@project-326 They're cheap as chips today but i remember when green pointers cost the earth in the earliest days of the internet. BTW, they now make fully SS 488mn blueish-green ones with just the diode - I own one. I need to develop my own YT channel with all the tech junk I've accrued over the years. LOL. I'm glad you welcomed my earlier explanation on this public forum and I'm certainly learning a lot from your good self. Can't wait for the second half.
@@leandroebner1405 I was one of those that worked on early CD player technology, the whole CD mechanism and OPU ended up costing less than $1.50 in serious volume, in particular the Sanyo DA11 was just an amazing piece of optical technology for its time that somehow also had the distinction of costing the same as a candy bar... If that same technology had been developed for the military, each CD mechanism would have cost about $150K...
Another fantastic video! Even with the better accuracy and interesting technology in the TLM-2, I would still much, MUCH rather just make my own spectrometer so I could use software that's actually useful. If I could use the TLM-2 with open source software, or if the company software didn't feel and look like spyware from 1998, it would be an instant buy. So, Torchbearer can choose to gate-keep functional software behind a paywall, and get $0 of my money, or put out a useful product and at least get some of my money.
@@project-326well, you already scared the living hell out of Bosean, hopefully they will take that good amount of honest into account for further reconsiderations :D
@@leandroebner1405 A little fear keep manufacturers honest and response to their customers needs. Actually, I have been impressed with the responsiveness of companies like Measall and Bosean. The winds of change, they are a blowin'.
Eu sou químico, e tenho pesquisado a respeito dos espectrometros e a aplicabilidade desses equipamentos na identificação de substâncias químicas e esse é muito interessante.
I am very grateful for your review. I hope to get one of each. I would be very interested in a review comparing these devices to the Hopoocolor OHSP-350SF - a much more expensive device. In addition to being a spectrometer, it also reports flicker and many other parameters. There is a very important use for this little device, particularly if it can be run off an iPhone or Android. That is for people like me who are extremely sensitive to and destroyed by both LED blue light, and by 100 or 120 hertz flicker. The rapid shift to LED lights for "energy saving" (low hanging fruit, so-called), do nothing of the sort. The horrible throw of the lights and their far faster than rated failure mean that they fail to measure up. But worse, they have many (MANY MANY MANY) health and environmental hazards. 1) The intense blue light at 452 nm burns the retina and eye tissues. The RG0 (unlimited) safety standard exhausts the ability of the eye to repair from the bleaching by the blue lit light in 2 hours 47 minutes per day (10,000 seconds). That excludes all other blue light (e.g. phones, computers, pads ...). After that exposure, the safe exposure for the rest of the day to blue light is ZERO! Yet people are expected to work and live under RG0 for about 12-16 hours per day. 4.3 to 5.74 times the maximum allowed to prevent eye damage. 2) Beyond that and through other mechanisms, the lights cause macular degeneration leading to blindness. The injury is most severe in children who have no yellowing of the lenses of their eyes, and people over 50 who have had lens replacements that have no yellowing. Also, at over age 50 the chemistry of the eye changes making outcomes much worse. 3) The intense blue light from LEDs activates the Intrinsic photosensitive ganglion receptor (ipGRC) cells in the eye. These cells process information from the rods and cones AND are the 4th color receptor. They detect 474 nm blue light (broad spectrum) to identify that the sun is up. And with that they instruct the pineal gland to NOT make the hormone melatonin. This effect is strong and requires complete avoidance for two hours before sleep. Nearly no one avoids LED light for two hours before bed. As a result, the circadian and hormone rhythms are disrupted. In replicate studies (most importantly a Spanish study on Ambient light at Night - ALAN[), this blue light has been shown conclusively to be a human carcinogen. It does this via the disruption of the hormone cycle. The end result is a 50% increase in breast cancer, a 105% increase in in prostate cancer, and an 18% increase in GI and rectal cancer FROM STREETLIGHTS ALONE! With indoor use these rates are at least 25% higher (1.25x). We are now seeing a rapid rise in breast cancers since 2017 following a linear rate of increase that has the "experts" (i.e. the ignorant buffoons) baffled. We are now 7 years into that, and before we can recognize the error of our ways and ban and recall all blue light emitting LED lighting, we will have committed to killing about 10 million Americans alone. Similar in Europe. More in Asia. And that is if we act to ban and recall all of them. Worse, the background rise in these cancers since the 1960s was caused by blue light from fluorescent lamps. That is a puzzle that has baffled experts for half a century, We now know the cause. And had we recognized that in 2015-2017 and changed the design of these lights to not emit melanopic light at night, we would see falling cancer rates rather than drastically rising rates. 4) Next add the devastating effects of high frequency flicker. This is flicker seen by the eyes and organs in the brain, but faster than the image forming part of the brain can resolve. this flicker causes headaches in most people (and related issues). In high IQ individuals with faster neuron response speeds the effects are terrifically worse and can lead to periodic blindness from optical migraines, plus migraines, plus loud subjective tonal tinnitus, plus GI and urinary issues and more. But the worst impacts are not to humans. They are to small mammals (birds ...) and insects. These devices being inexpensive allow people to carry with them a test device to assess just how dangerous stores, shops, offices and other locations are. And to assess available lighting to determine just how dangerous it may be. Also, infrared light is crucial for health. It drives our mitochondria. Yet LED light is intentionally devoid of "wasted hear energy" in the form of life and health giving infrared and red light.
@@project-326 I do. The Hoppo was $3k. Not cheap. But at the time it was the best available. It is truly womderful that inexoensive devices are becoming available, Do be aware of the hazards. LED lights are bloody dangerous, yet taken to be benign. My best estimate of the adverse costs to the economy through health and productivity is accumulatingat about $1 trillion (with a "t") per year - once todays impacts are fully felt. Most of those are delayed impacts that will not begin to be apparent until about now. Once we recognize the hazards, we face not less than five years before we can meaningfully act.That means not less than 13 years of accumulated harm, plus howevere long it takes to actually withdraw the lights. Phase out won't work. Having inexpensive devices to identify toxic lights is an essential part of the solution. Great work by the way!
I would be interested in one of these, but only if the suggested improvements in the video were made, and especially if the software for it was made to be open source. An additional suggestion would be for it to be USB-C compatible.
its using the old Mini-USB because its not USB, but serial UART. There is a USB-UART converter in the cable itself. Hopefully they can improve that too.
One issue that cheap array spectrometers suffer from is straylight, especially excess signal In the blue/UV. Grading instruments can have order sorting filters and multiple gratings to eliminate. This one has some filtration on the pixels and a magic algorithm. I’d have done some tests with a broadband source and a thick bit of various schott coloured filters, see if you get any signal where you should see none. You could also check you “higher order effect” hypothesis by filtering the source so there is no light in that spectral region and then seeing if the higher order lines appear. Calibrated, how, against what and for what sources? Interesting little device. No numbers out is no sales made. No way to check noise floor, stray light etc. roll on part 2.
Liked & subscribed! Really appreciate your testing of affordable micro spectrometers that can be used by science oriented diy'ers for all sorts of applications. I'm particularly interested in greenhouse growing of edible crops over all 4 seasons. Especially the quality of light reaching plants through combinations of glass, clear plastic, shade cloth, and even artificial lighting sources. I'm sure other application will occur to me as I progress in my diy homesteading experiments. Thanks for your detailed analysis of product performance and cheeky & accurate observations about excessive capitalist marketing strategies that would hobble potential customers. (With all of the existential crises that we humans are facing in the 21st century, what is most needed are innovations that are affordable, full featured, extensible and, where possible, even open sourced - so that maximum global reach is achieved. Profits can come from widespread global market penetration & large volume deals with STEM-oriented organizations.)
To the manufacturer: I direly want a spectral analyzer tool. if you add a CSV export OR a CRI rating, I would try to buy it if it is available in Germany. Please add CSV export or CRI measurement
It was a pleasure to watch something without u-tubes con-job ads that sometimes run longer than the actual video. I don't know, do we want to attraction the monsters attention with a subscribe and a like. Well I've done it anyways so we'll see what happens. But keep your head down.
Does ionizable radiation make the florescent coating on LEDs glow? what is the strength of this ionizable radiation? Can florescent coated LEDs visually indicate the presence of fallout? Assume they had these LEDs in Pripyat will they see unpowered glowing LEDs? Also does ionizable radiation damage the florescent coating? Another question. Since florescent material degrade with time will florescent coated LEDs lose their color after decades?
Well that's a good few questions... OK, so fluorescent materials are used as scintillation crystals in devices like gamma ray spectrometers, but each type of fluorescent material has different wavelengths that it will be excited by. I would doubt that the materials used for LED production would be useful for gamma rays. Another issue is the number of photons. gamma rays have a LOT more energy per photon, if you had a gamma ray source that emitted the same number of photons as just a small LED, you would basically have a death ray on your hands! Because the number of gamma rays photons is pretty low in the background, gamma ray scintillation crystals need to be connected to detectors that can be sensitive to just single photon events. Radium watch dials, for example, lose their luminosity in a few decades as the fluorescent material crystal structure becomes damaged by years of alpha particle bombardment, and stop glowing. The dangerous thing about that is that the Ra-224 has a half-life of about 1600 years. People often think that dials that no longer glow are no longer radioactive which can lead to some poor decision making in the disposal of the dials. I would assume that there will be a small amount of similar damage by a 450nm blue photon on an LED flourescent coating, but given that the energy of a photon at these wavelengths is about 10^9 times lower, I would assume that the damage would accumulate a billion times more slowly.
A reasonable software in English is a prerequisite for international marketing. Is it so difficult to remember the language and the COM port? Is it that difficult to install a usable image export?
That's a tough one. All the previous videos on this channel only had 'posh Arthur' as the narrator, this is the first one with a human voice and already some regular viewers are worried that Arthur will be fired. People seem to have a very wide spectrum of opinions on this subject...
Morgan, the listing for the Little Garden spectrometer now mentions: "The algorithm of the software has been modified (adding irradiation correction, removing background noise, etc.) to measure relative intensity more accurately, and the color temperature, color coordinates, and color rendering index can be calculated with an accuracy of more than 90%" He provides a link to this modified version. Have you used this modified version of Theremino for the tests in this video?
Since it appears that this new model has a reflected diffraction grating (im hoping it is surface reflective) and they made their own sensor, im wondering if they could increase the spectral range further into the UV. If that is not possible to keep it in budget, it would be nice to see an affordable model that maybe starts in blue or violet, but can function down to 200 or 250nm.
@@peterwoolliams1283 I understand that if they attempt to go into the UV, they have to make sure all the optical components and materials don't absorb UV along the way. I'm thinking about using such a device with microscope illuminators that (they claim) pass UV as short as 250nm. (Some of the quarts lenses I have claim to be rated to 200nm). eBay has been great for finding deals for most of my hobby, though, (working) UV spectrometers are not one of them. Hope is all I have now!!!!
Where can I get some of those LED bulbs featured? Perhaps they are available on other markets? AliExpress, DHGate, etc. what is the brand or model of the LED bulbs?
These aren't exactly the same, but similar... www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006768029309.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.21.7489zyZpzyZpq5&algo_pvid=9c8238f8-6e27-4510-8a7e-5fac01281b6a&algo_exp_id=9c8238f8-6e27-4510-8a7e-5fac01281b6a-10&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%217.19%215.18%21%21%2152.17%2137.56%21%402167359c17198154480454097eb4e2%2112000039994356366%21sea%21HK%212881401294%21AB&curPageLogUid=boPe8mK5GVRW&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A
As I am carrying this device in my small laptop bag, I have realized that 5nm is not ideal but certainly good enough for a lot more applications than I have initially expected. It's quite surprising what you can do with even this limited resolution...
Looks to be a useful device, spoilt by the absolutely crap enclosure. If they dont have pride in the presentation then they are probably falling short elsewhere. My vote is for the little garden device and I hope the creator make some money from it before he get crapped upon.
I would be interested by the TM2 however no access to the data no purchase! put an open-source software on it pls. Finally the mini USB plug is outdated. Cables start to be harder to find.
I think they chose a mini-USB because it is now just a USB cable, it is the USB-Serial converter and people are less likely to plug in a standard USB cable buy accident. At least that's my conclusion...
@@project-326 I'm not sure to fully understand. usb to serial you normally plug it to a normal usb port on your computer it work with usb-C as well all Arduino like stuffs use that no issue. Now if i have to understand that they use a mini usb plug for a different purpose than usb that is a drama guaranteed recipe as someone will end plugging this in a computer usb plug generating a magic smoke emission.
I don't know yet. Mine cost around $50 USD here in CN on TaoBao but on Amazon there are going to be the extra costs of Amazon's margin (4 x higher than TaoBao) and shipping, logistics and fulfillment. I'm kind of guessing it will be over $60 once it reaches Amazon. Just a guess though...
Sent you an email about the high pressure sodium lamp. Something doesn't look right :) I can't wait to receive the Little Garden spectrometer so I can test myself.
Sorry to be that guy but you should have locked the white balance on the camera shooting the test footage. It shifts noticeably when you change light sources.
I use my phone to make the videos (don't have the kind of cash to be buying pro camera gear yet) and I can't fix the exposure or WB on that. For photos, there is a 'pro' mode that lets me adjust anything I want, but for video Its just a choice of two f-stops...
@@leandroebner1405 Yes, particularly when the subject matter is "optical technology"... It drives me mad, I bought this XiaoMi phone because it has an enormous array of optics - never realized that video was going to have zero settings.
@@project-326 you can try using a third party app. Most of the HW supports manual features, it's just not implemented in the OEM firmware of camera apps. There's an android app called "open camera". Either you find it in your app store or you can search for an .APK file to use it. It's open source by Mark Harman
The one thing i don't understand is that if you make a product for "nerdy" people why do they go with windows as the OS for their applications? STEM people are used to linux, some even talk Octave in their sleep 😀 Windows is over.
5:31 How can this determine wavelength with just a few wavelength sensors? Our eyes can't determine wavelength, e.g. red and green together look yellow, just like yellow looks.
We cannot determine wavelength, but we can see the difference between a white light with more of less blue, etc. The three white versions of white LEDs tested should show that strongly enough just from the video itself without the spectrometer. Mixing a small number of pure colors will confuse the 'eye' but with a more white spectrum available, we become quite sensitive to color mixes. I always remember the strip light in the kitchen as a kid that had that stark white light verses the filament lights in the other rooms.
Red laser pointer: IR peak a "higher order diffraction line"? As in harmonics? But that's a lower frequency. Sidenote, I think these graphs should be orientated with the lowest frequencies on the left and highest towards the right as both radio waves and ionising radiation are.
I agree but in optics its wavelength that is the unit of the day and red to the right seems to be the standard. Ironically, as you move up in wavelength, the units change to eV and the graph is back to the correct sense again...
@@project-326 I'm a foundation-level ham operator, based in the UK (M7TVD) and from our viewpoint the radio spectrum goes from left to right in terms of frequency (conversely, right to left in terms of wavelength) and is represented so on our contemporary transceiver's "waterfall displays" - an animated graphical representation of the bands. (SDR receivers do this as well.) This mirrors the higher end of the EM spectrum as usually represented. Radio operators tune-in to frequencies but refer to subsets of those as "bands" and these are expressed by their wavelength in metres on the LW, MW and SW, up to VHF where they're now expressed in centimetres and onwards and upwards.... Shame that the spectrum is shown backwards in optics. My OCD demands consistency! 🙂
@@DennisSantos As an RF design engineer, I agree with you completely, but convention is just that. All the major spectrometer software also works on wavelength with red on the right.
@@DennisSantoshaha. Hi Dennis. Greeting from JN47 :) Yep, it's indeed sometimes kinda weird. The EM spectrum sometimes uses freq, wavelengths, eVs... Just depends on the nature of physics you're studying, for nuclear physics it's MUCH more interesting to know the energy of the photons rather their wavelength. In ham radio, it's all about antennas and propagation. Wavelength is super useful here. Glad to see Hams here as well :) 73s, DM8LE
yup, I'm guessing its just that they don't have the team that is specialized in firmware of software. Their team seems to be made of of materials scientists, algorithm specialists, etc, but EE and SW seems to be lower order functions for this start up.
can i use that 50$ spectrometer to identify gemstones ... ? what is a 'Raman spectrometer or 'Raman microspectroscopy' ? i want one that does not cost 6000 euro bought from GIA (Gemeological Institure of America)
You need a powerful green laser and some narrow blocking filters to detect the Raman excitation (which can get swamped by normal fluorescence anyway). Anything above 5mW needs great care!
@@peterwoolliams1283 i did not even know Raman spectroposcy ,, or such, was exiting , anything, but ok. question then becomes, can i use a 5mw green laser to aim,, i just assume, trough the gemstone, and into this device, and read a number , that is a permanent identefying number ?
@@QuadDerrick unlikely, the Raman signal is small and very close to the illuminating laser wavelength, hence the need for good blocking filters. See if anyone of CZcams has reported anything. Any spectrum you obtained would need interpretation to quantify things.
The UV is so short wavelength that my small lab room smells of ozone in only a few seconds of operating the lamp. I only ever use it for very short duration's of time, this thing won't just give you a suntan, it will give you skin cancer with careless use. This has a continuous spectrum that goes down just below 200nm. Mind you the whole start up process (the sound of the PSU hum, switching modes, the heater glow, etc) makes if feel scary too, which is a good thing. One doesn't easily forget and become reckless.
@@project-326 I‘m actually in charge of producing these lamps here in Germany 😅. Maybe you have a very old lamp or a knockoff but technically this lamp shouldn’t produce ozone: inside the quartz body, there is a glass filter plate, cutting the wavelength lower then 2xx nm (need to look up the transmission diagram…). At least our Noblelight lamp does. Do you maybe have a Hamamatsu lamp? How do you power it?
@@Bouregard3 Wow, that's really good to know that once again, I'm going to learn from the comments. I use a professional PSU that was specifically designed for the tube. The tube has a SiO2 window, instead of the "UV Pyrex" type (whatever that is) I had to pay a little more for that option. I once measured the anode voltage, its around 80V once the arc is struck. The spectra looks pretty legit, its certainly D2 being ionized inside the lamp, H2 would be VERY different. I have seen quite few other reports of O3 being generated during operation, mostly from Japanese tubes. UVC is certainly going to generate some O3 with 200nm, even though it doesn't get down to the 160nm peak O2 absorption band. FYI, I have now looked at the spectral output of this same tube with 2 different spectrometers, neither of which are capable of seeing the whole UV output from this lamp, but that is why I like to test these cheap devices with the D2 lamp, I can define the shortest wavelength pretty easily. Mind you, my nose is pretty well trained with O3, I have done a lot of work in the distant past with VERY high voltage generators (100 to 500 kV continuous, up to 500uA). Please I would love to know more. How would a 'knock off' be more effective at creating O3?
great video until 23minute... a consumer uv laser with pump diode?? no way, 2nd order diffraction! such parts make me question the rest of the video and its accuracy.... also shining an unknown laser directly into the aperature.... dunno
Yes, I just learned this too from other comments, I'll make the corrections in part 2. I had assumed these were similar to the system used on green laser pointers. This channel is as much about learning myself, as anything else.
I'm sure that a few of our regular viewers will be surprised to see that I now have a co-host for this channel, but I do want to thank Max for his amazing contribution to this tiny, non-monetized channel.
Indeed, good work Max, looking forward to more cooperation very soon.
My pleasure Arthur!
Hello everyone! I'm Max, one of your co-hosts, and I'm thrilled to be here with you all. We're excited to share some interesting content with you - from laughs and learning to complete annihilation of all organic life on earth by my co-host Posh Arthur.
It's nice to see fluorescent lamp (i.e. argon and mercury) spectral lines. I remember them from my time in high school (ca. 1980) where I volunteered to repair a physics classroom spectroscope. It had a 60 degree prism, two optical tubes at adjustable angles, and was just missing an eyepiece, which I substituted by fitting an objective lens from my 8mm film camera. It was basically the original Bunsen's design from ca. 1900. Good resolution, as long as the slit was kept narrow enough. I could clearly see the double line of sodium, as well as Fraunhofer dark equivalent in sunlight. Compared to this, the resolution of the two spectrometers reviewed leaves a lot to be desired, especially the small one.
I believe TLM-2 design relies on interpolation to such a degree that its results are somewhat misleading. It likely shows any number of close lines as if they were one, as long as they fall on the same pair of pixels of the light sensor. In other words, it will calculate a weighted average of wavelength and add up intensity. So the high accuracy for a sparse spectrum probably belies much lower resolution of a busy one. Try it using a neon lamp, which has a lot of lines close together in the orange-red part of the spectrum. It will likely not resolve very many of them.
I will be doing exactly as you suggest with a Neon lamp source. As part of another video I'm working on, I will be discussing how to use these cheapo spectrometers to identify elements. I'll post a pic I got from the TLM-2 on the community tab in a few mins, keep an eye open for that!
@@project-326hehe, nice to hear that idea is in the making ^^
Woah, I had to check to be sure this was the channel I thought it was. I'm all for trying new styles and approaches. Glad 'Posh' Arthur wasn't fired. His dry humor is important.
Nobody can fire Posh Arthur, despite how naughty he is...
the humans can't get by without me, don't worry.
Non-crippled software would be an improvement. An SDK would be even better.
SKD is a great suggestion...
I no longer have a commercial need. But my scientific mind wants one to be added to the selection of it it can be measured I want to be able to measure it. As a former repair technician in the analog days of video and early digital cameras I had to have a calibrated light of a known color temperature. The cheapest way was to use 12V halogen downlights and run them at 14.8V where they only had a short but useful life.
Eagerly awaiting part 2.
More eagerly awaiting the availability of the product in an online shop.
In progress, but please be patient, we want to be sure the manufacturer gets their head around the idea of listening to potential customers.
PEACHES and a Spectrometer Review are two things I never in my life assumed would be together!
;-)
Human music at its finest, in the right setting, of course...
If this is just a COM port, surely you can just write translation layer and use something like ArgyllCMS. Or whatever software to your liking.
Edit: Would have liked to see the insides. But I see that coming. Looks like another camera sensor. Would have thought a linear scanner CCD as better, but I guess optics would need to much better then as well as a size increase. Please keep finding these gems.
Edit2: Would you mind testing these for color calibration (I see their software does do something for that with xy coords)?
In the green laser the 808 nm is the actual LED wavelength. The light gets converted to 1064 nm (fluorescence) in a Nd:YAG crystal, and after that passes through KTP crystal which doubles the frequency to 532 nm.
thanks for that info. It is the very best thing about a channel like this, I get to learn from smart people!
frequency doubling, how does that work? absorbing two photons, emitting one? (always thought that was impossible)
@@Peterkramer929that's basically exactly what it does. The math works out super close to both input photons only being half the output energy respectively. Even more fun, there are processes working the other way round! Look up SPDC and you'll be even more impressed :). Back in the days I built entangled photon sources by the use of UV lasers with a Type 2 BBO crystal. The process occurs only rare times and most of the UV passes straight through. Some UV photons get split into 2 red photons, also being orthogonally oriented in their polarization plane. You can "easily" dm Separate them by using Pol filters :D
lol, I can’t believe anyone else has that Peaches song. I used to listen to it while coding, about 20 years ago - and it still makes me smile.
I first heard it in the Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray movie Lost in Translation. Been on my playlist ever since😂
Looking forward to 2nd video. Would purchase a few units if software was fixed.
Rescaling window size, remembering parameters, and outputting CSV data are
obvious must. Thank you.
We NEED people like you to evaluate the few US electronic products as well as EU products to see if feedback can help improve their products too.
so many things to test, so little time...
I'd just listen in on the com port, figure out the protocol, and generate the CSV with reverse engineered software. I doubt it's that hard to do.
It's certainly worth trying that, let's hope that didn't try to encrypt the data to prevent that...
Ah ! another great video from Project 326 at last! You my friend are going places! really enjoy your videos! Salute!
As I enjoy your videos too Sir!
@@project-326 👍😊
This video is quite a surprise. Well done! I was considering ordering the Little Garden device through a third party company but I'll wait until part 2 of the video is released and draw my conclusions then.
a good plan!
We are already busy in the 2nd part...
Great review and cool device! Looking forward to seeing the second part!
I'd suggest that non-proprietary parts of the user interface software be open source.
The difficult parts are the hardware and any secret sauce they have for calibration and signal processing.
The UI parts where the processed output data is displayed should be open so users can customize it or integrate it with their own tools.
This would also allow users to contribute features and bug fixes back to the official UI project, improving the product for everyone.
Thanks for the ideas, I hope they will be able to take these on board...
Amazing little device, thank you for bringing it to us. Can't wait for part 2
Coming soon!
I want to get one as well. Having a CSV data output would be great as well because then we can run in through other applications or just save it in a database for future reference and calibration.
its a definite requirement for it to be useful. such a calculating cie-lab color temperature calculations.
You'll run into a dead end pretty soon when you can't to anything with the data you measured. Agreed. Not a total dealbreaker because that thing in that price range is less a scientific tool and more a fun nerdy gadget
Great thingy. I hope one day someone makes it available on Aliexpress, or on other international site.
Hopefully this will be on Amazon soon!
Thanks for the in depth review.
It's a very interesting product, it would be much nicer if the apps were had the basic functionality working really reliably. The mobile apps need to find the unit faster and the PC app needs to remember settings.
A USB C socket would be highly appreciated too.
P.s.
Please retire the slow robot voice and refrain from repeating the same information you just said when you switch to the spectrum results.
@@MaxNippard We are hoping that if there are enough comments about the issues, the manufacturer will make the changes...
@@MaxNippard I second the suggestion to retire anything repetitive.
@@MaxNippard How long have they been developing this device ?
Haven't seen a Mini-USB connector for over a decade. 0:07
Correction @20:00, the green laser pointer uses an 808nm pump diode to drive an Nd:YAG medium that outputs 1024nm... you may see residual emissions in both of these underlying frequencies, though the KTP only doubles the 1024nm source light.
Thank you, this a a couple of other corrections will be in part 2 of the video.
I'm looking forward to the second part. For sure I am interested in the device, as long as the manufacturer does not intentionally cripple functions just to charge more without justifiable costs - I've given up on FLIR thermal imagers beacause of such behavior. One more question that was not raised in the video: why use an USB mini-B connector in 2024?
There is a USB-Serial converter inside the cable housing - my guess is that because the mini-USB is not common, it help to reduce the number of people that are likely to plug it directly into a USB port...
The dots look like a super Bayer filter.
I was saving some more info for the 2nde part of the video, but the camera module is actually a monochrome type, according to the manufacturer.
Wow, this is a great new format. Love the brothel scene😂 That little spectrometer looks good too, shame about the bugs you identified. They would be easily fixed as you mentioned. Be nice to have better resolution, but I suspect that may be a physical hurdle to overcome without adding an FFA (Fudge Factor Algorithm). Well done for a best ever video👍
thank you very much
I built a crappy version of the little garden based on your tear down from the last video actually. I wanted to get one badly, but figured that it was too difficult so I tried to pull it off. I didn't use the monochrome camera, as I could find one (recently I got one, but haven't done anything with it), that said its quite limited, but was super fun to make. I love these videos, they make you think about products.
OK, so I had a lot of very detailed discussion with the creator of the 'little garden' device. It seems I made a mistake in my original video. He is not buying monochrome camera (that is too expensive, due to the very low demand) but manually cleaning of the Bayer Filter. I have a lot of respect for that guy and will be including a whole segment on him in the next video.
I also tried to build one myself - it really made me appreciate the 'little Garden" device a LOT more. Sometimes, its the journey that is more interesting than the destination...
@@project-326 Cleaning a Bayer filter manually sounds crazy, but maybe you know how he does it?
@@user-ri2zq7by1m The creator would like to keep that part secret... But I ill be showing a video of the process that he sent to me.
@@project-326 that would explain a lot, haha I spent hours trying to figure out if I bought the wrong camera module. Cleaning the Bayer Filter sounds like delicate work that take a lot of effort. Cant wait to see the process!
Some of your extra peaks are artifacts of the way these spectrometer works and not actually in the light source. You can confirm this with some filters.
I'll take a look at that in the next part of the video.
Nice device. It would be nice to have a machine readable export format. And it would be nice to have higher precision of the small device combined with the finer resolution of the bigger one.
If I had time for that, I'd look into possible hacky modifications. Those devices send their simple data packets over the com part without any encryption. Don think their company would like that approach tho. But that's what happens by making silly decisions the customer has to life with.
This channel going to blow up.
Indeed. And I'm incredibly happy CZcams gained another good channel for informative science
Really looking forward to part 2, and ready to order one to satisfy my curious-yet-poor self! Amazing video!
Awesome! Thank you!
Yes we need a data export file, that is if you are trying to promote people to uses this in applications other than pretty pictures. That said, since i get to say something that might help in development, could you please cut the music loop, to hear the same thing over and over really made it hard to get to the end of the video and i certainly will have issue with part 2. Otherwise, nice.
I will try and make changes to the next video, thanks for the feedback though!
It just uses serial port? That's cool!
It sucks that it doesn't have "export to CSV"
but I'd love to try to "reverse-engineer" the communication.
me too, I will probably take a look, at least to see if the data has any encryption included.
great. love the style. love the color names.
Thanks so much!
Like you said, CSV export is pretty important. The other thing I'd like to see is the software being open source so there are no questions about its safety.
I don't think they would release their software open source, but perhaps an SDK is a good compromise...
Thank you for an illuminating video - subscribed, liked, and hungry for more.
Welcome aboard!
I love your channel and just wanted to make you aware I prefer long fourm videos. Making the videos shorter trims out your humorous side and the depth of the information provided.
Thanks for the tip!
OMG. So with the ban of lamps in the reptile hobby in the US and EU coming down the pipe, these tools are sorely needed to keep our pets healthy.
Very nicely explained and demonstrated! I wanted to look for different lines of emission from pure hydrogen spectra; particularly of Balmer & Paschen series. I wanted to get assured about the same! Or whether we were just thought to be so! Thanks.
That is exactly why I like to make experiments on this channel, nothing beats seeing stuff for yourself, even if the results are way less impressive than from a professional lab. The reason people still buy telescopes is for exactly the same reason, nobody can beat the Hubble of JWST images but those are someone else's results. Seeing a tiny, dim, fuzzy, monochrome image of the rings of Saturn, with your own eyes, beats all of those beautiful on-line images from the pros.
I'm going to look into finding a low pressure H2 tube...
I have that exact 450 nm pointer. It is not a DPSSL, it's direct eiode, so there should be no IR emission. I would suspect the same for the 410 nm, not that DPSSL is impossible, but they would cost more than 10x as much as a direct diode laser. Looking at the spectral width, I am fairly sure these should both be direct diode lasers. You should be able to tell by which way the batteries are inserted, or, you might be able to open them up to see the module.
The 532 nm, however, is indeed, more likely, DPSSL, pumped with an 808 nm IR laser, so that is reassuring... however, the artefacts for the near UV lasers is concerning to me. I'm 98% sure something is wrong with the spectromeret... higher order diffraction or some other interference, rather than an issue with the laser.
Still, though, both products are interesting to me. If they are available in the USA for under $150, I'd seriously consider these. If they go higher than that, they'll already be in competition with other super-low cost spectrometers that seem to have fewer reported bugs.
Yup, if figured that out from some other comments. I will be making some corrections in the next part of the video.
Thank you for the corrections, learning is something I never want to stop doing and having people that know something I don't, point out mistakes in the comments is a positive experience for me.
Yes, I hope that they can fix these deficiencies. I'm interested in purchasing a low-cost spectrometer; I have a product I'm developing that I need a tool such as this to explore the light sources I plan to use in it! Upfront: The Functionality and Price will be determining factors in my purchase decision. I agree with the criticism about the software's abilities, they need to be improved. Please, do spend some more time to polish it up before releasing. Even the ability to connect to that 3rd party's open source software might be a good way to get it there, just a suggestion.
I think it is wonderful to have an opportunity to communicate and be part of the community that helps shape the product's we use! And for the manufacturer, it must be a great opportunity for you to get direct and useful feedback by the customers.
In any event, I'm looking forward to part 2 and see if we made a difference. Thanks a bunch!
yes, I am hoping that the manufacturer will be responsive too. What I really like about this unit is the size. It now lives in my work bag on a permanent basis...
There should be CSV output, but I wonder if the pdf might be able to be "read" by Chat GPT which would output what it "saw" in your format of choice? Edit: I just tried it with Claude and it told me that the resolution of the chart I gave it wasn't good enough for accurate reading. I'd like to see the PDF output of this instrument. If high enough resolution it may work.
Love the embedded humour
This kind of affordable spectrometer is really useful for lighting designers and others invo!ved in architectural lighting design for confirmation of product specification. Also increasingly important in other areas of professional lighting such as photography and videography. So far the product seems pretty good for our kinds of use with sufficient resolution and accuracy. Typically the output format in PDF isOK if we have enough detail and refencesto ISO and CIE standards however CSV is necessary For calculating colour fidelity and also for melanopic effectiveness through standard tools freely available from IES and CIE. Price in the market is also important as will be thelevel of calibration against traceable standards to NIST or other international standards. Also how about recalibration? If it is cheap enough and calibration from new is warrantied for say 2 years then replace that would be good enough if the unit is cheap enough. Currently I need to replace my existing spectrophotometer as the company who made it are out of business and it cannot be recalibrated also there is no software support for it
These are all really good questions that I hope the manufacturer will be able to have answers too!
I WANT ONE!
Hopefully the device will be available on Amazon soon...
This is an amazing solution seeking a problem to solve…..
You are right but... Once I started playing with spectrometers, I just keep finding new things to point it at. Something so small and low cost, even has applications for professional lighting, even for YT creators. For me, it was like a Swiss army knife, that one accessory you never used until one day finding out what it is actually for and then realizing how useful it is.
@@project-326 thinking about it, if say it’s built into a phone then it could be useful as a fruit/veg freshness picker. On an XY robot could be used to step scan artworks for potential mismatches/fraud. At low cost could be used in ATMs as another way of checking for fraudulent bills. But probably the best application if it could handle range could be for industrial level robot agriculture where the robot checks the spectrum of the plant leaf to work out its health and use this to determine individual plant care. Another (but would require significant investment to certify) is skin scans for cancer - I’m assuming different types of skin cancer would have a different spectra to normal skin.
@@daverei1211 Spectrometers of all types just have a wealth of information to give. That is why I now carry this device almost everywhere I go. Its great for the kids, we can see something and then the kids, they get a great visualization of what light actually is when they are playing with it. My 10 year old daughter has now understood that 'white' LEDs are actually blue LEDs with 'yellow stuff' that makes other colors.
Looks like a great-ish product with some software needs. Get the software dialed in.
lets hope so, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink...
I ordered the little garden from China after saw you video - its working surprising nice. Also I prefer you keep the robotic voice instead of real human voice 😆😆
From TaoBao directly?
@@project-326 Yes, taobao official cainiao shipping service. Cost is very low and deliver within 2 weeks for the economics one
@@project-326 Also want to add that I ordered KC761B the same way as well. Works wonderfully too
@@project-326 For some reason youtube keeps deleting my comment..do you have email that I can contact you directly?
I’d be interested in seeing flame tests of some chemicals just for variety. Not table salt, but something more complex. I could see buying one of these when they have CSV, although I don’t need it.
Almost everything I own, technically, I don't NEED.
I have to tell you about my favorite named color of all time! I was looking at paint samples at the hardware store and the best name was “Bluish.” How overstrained from inventing new color names does your brain have to be to say “Well, it’s not blue, but it’s blue-ish”?
that is definitely a case of creative-fatigue in action...
Fascinating. Hope it gets some SW improvements before it hits the North American market.
me too! Fingers crossed - I just let the company know about the video being released...
@@project-326 Here's to hoping. I wonder if someone will make an open-source SW for it, I think there are already a couple out there that I've seen people do builds based on.
Would be great if there was a macOS version of the software, in English.
Thank you for the great review. I am interested in the glass tube LEDs in that you used - please share the source 🤓
I got them from TaoBao (only here in China) but sure that AliExpress or other source will have them. They are pretty cool...
Regarding the green laser: The small IR peak is from the IR pumping diode which then goes through two crystals which do the frequency doubling, etc. This green laser appears to adequately filter out the IR but many do not. Edit: You mention this with the violet laser. I see this video took a while to put together, LOL
Thank you, I have already be 'educated' in that aspect by another kind viewer. The thing I like best about making these videos is that there are always people with more knowledge to learn from. I didn't realize that the green laser was a 3 stage process. Its amazing how much technology can be crammed into a $10 laser pointer...
@@project-326 They're cheap as chips today but i remember when green pointers cost the earth in the earliest days of the internet. BTW, they now make fully SS 488mn blueish-green ones with just the diode - I own one. I need to develop my own YT channel with all the tech junk I've accrued over the years. LOL. I'm glad you welcomed my earlier explanation on this public forum and I'm certainly learning a lot from your good self. Can't wait for the second half.
@@project-326DPSS are nowadays some of the cheapest lasers which is crazy when you think about how complex their optical path actually is
@@DennisSantosyes please. CZcams needs more creators in that field, always!!
@@leandroebner1405 I was one of those that worked on early CD player technology, the whole CD mechanism and OPU ended up costing less than $1.50 in serious volume, in particular the Sanyo DA11 was just an amazing piece of optical technology for its time that somehow also had the distinction of costing the same as a candy bar... If that same technology had been developed for the military, each CD mechanism would have cost about $150K...
I am very interested in this device, if it has iOS support and CSV data output!
Another fantastic video!
Even with the better accuracy and interesting technology in the TLM-2, I would still much, MUCH rather just make my own spectrometer so I could use software that's actually useful.
If I could use the TLM-2 with open source software, or if the company software didn't feel and look like spyware from 1998, it would be an instant buy.
So, Torchbearer can choose to gate-keep functional software behind a paywall, and get $0 of my money, or put out a useful product and at least get some of my money.
Let's see if they are responsive - I just emailed them with the video link...
@@project-326well, you already scared the living hell out of Bosean, hopefully they will take that good amount of honest into account for further reconsiderations :D
@@leandroebner1405 A little fear keep manufacturers honest and response to their customers needs. Actually, I have been impressed with the responsiveness of companies like Measall and Bosean. The winds of change, they are a blowin'.
Eu sou químico, e tenho pesquisado a respeito dos espectrometros e a aplicabilidade desses equipamentos na identificação de substâncias químicas e esse é muito interessante.
Awesome, glad you like it! Hopefully we can have good news for you in the next part of the video.
I am very grateful for your review. I hope to get one of each. I would be very interested in a review comparing these devices to the Hopoocolor OHSP-350SF - a much more expensive device. In addition to being a spectrometer, it also reports flicker and many other parameters.
There is a very important use for this little device, particularly if it can be run off an iPhone or Android. That is for people like me who are extremely sensitive to and destroyed by both LED blue light, and by 100 or 120 hertz flicker.
The rapid shift to LED lights for "energy saving" (low hanging fruit, so-called), do nothing of the sort. The horrible throw of the lights and their far faster than rated failure mean that they fail to measure up.
But worse, they have many (MANY MANY MANY) health and environmental hazards.
1) The intense blue light at 452 nm burns the retina and eye tissues. The RG0 (unlimited) safety standard exhausts the ability of the eye to repair from the bleaching by the blue lit light in 2 hours 47 minutes per day (10,000 seconds). That excludes all other blue light (e.g. phones, computers, pads ...). After that exposure, the safe exposure for the rest of the day to blue light is ZERO! Yet people are expected to work and live under RG0 for about 12-16 hours per day. 4.3 to 5.74 times the maximum allowed to prevent eye damage.
2) Beyond that and through other mechanisms, the lights cause macular degeneration leading to blindness. The injury is most severe in children who have no yellowing of the lenses of their eyes, and people over 50 who have had lens replacements that have no yellowing. Also, at over age 50 the chemistry of the eye changes making outcomes much worse.
3) The intense blue light from LEDs activates the Intrinsic photosensitive ganglion receptor (ipGRC) cells in the eye. These cells process information from the rods and cones AND are the 4th color receptor. They detect 474 nm blue light (broad spectrum) to identify that the sun is up. And with that they instruct the pineal gland to NOT make the hormone melatonin. This effect is strong and requires complete avoidance for two hours before sleep. Nearly no one avoids LED light for two hours before bed. As a result, the circadian and hormone rhythms are disrupted. In replicate studies (most importantly a Spanish study on Ambient light at Night - ALAN[), this blue light has been shown conclusively to be a human carcinogen. It does this via the disruption of the hormone cycle. The end result is a 50% increase in breast cancer, a 105% increase in in prostate cancer, and an 18% increase in GI and rectal cancer FROM STREETLIGHTS ALONE!
With indoor use these rates are at least 25% higher (1.25x).
We are now seeing a rapid rise in breast cancers since 2017 following a linear rate of increase that has the "experts" (i.e. the ignorant buffoons) baffled.
We are now 7 years into that, and before we can recognize the error of our ways and ban and recall all blue light emitting LED lighting, we will have committed to killing about 10 million Americans alone. Similar in Europe. More in Asia. And that is if we act to ban and recall all of them.
Worse, the background rise in these cancers since the 1960s was caused by blue light from fluorescent lamps. That is a puzzle that has baffled experts for half a century, We now know the cause. And had we recognized that in 2015-2017 and changed the design of these lights to not emit melanopic light at night, we would see falling cancer rates rather than drastically rising rates.
4) Next add the devastating effects of high frequency flicker. This is flicker seen by the eyes and organs in the brain, but faster than the image forming part of the brain can resolve. this flicker causes headaches in most people (and related issues). In high IQ individuals with faster neuron response speeds the effects are terrifically worse and can lead to periodic blindness from optical migraines, plus migraines, plus loud subjective tonal tinnitus, plus GI and urinary issues and more.
But the worst impacts are not to humans. They are to small mammals (birds ...) and insects.
These devices being inexpensive allow people to carry with them a test device to assess just how dangerous stores, shops, offices and other locations are. And to assess available lighting to determine just how dangerous it may be.
Also, infrared light is crucial for health. It drives our mitochondria. Yet LED light is intentionally devoid of "wasted hear energy" in the form of life and health giving infrared and red light.
Unfortunately, I have to buy this stuff myself, so it gets pretty hard to cater to all review requests. I hope you understand...
@@project-326 I do. The Hoppo was $3k. Not cheap. But at the time it was the best available.
It is truly womderful that inexoensive devices are becoming available,
Do be aware of the hazards. LED lights are bloody dangerous, yet taken to be benign. My best estimate of the adverse costs to the economy through health and productivity is accumulatingat about $1 trillion (with a "t") per year - once todays impacts are fully felt. Most of those are delayed impacts that will not begin to be apparent until about now. Once we recognize the hazards, we face not less than five years before we can meaningfully act.That means not less than 13 years of accumulated harm, plus howevere long it takes to actually withdraw the lights. Phase out won't work.
Having inexpensive devices to identify toxic lights is an essential part of the solution.
Great work by the way!
Be good to see some peer reviewed studies, I’m aware about blue light and general night light level impacts)
@@peterwoolliams1283 Start here: ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/full/10.1289/EHP1837
I would be interested in one of these, but only if the suggested improvements in the video were made, and especially if the software for it was made to be open source. An additional suggestion would be for it to be USB-C compatible.
its using the old Mini-USB because its not USB, but serial UART. There is a USB-UART converter in the cable itself. Hopefully they can improve that too.
Definitely needs a way to get the data into other software--like csv file output.
But with that, the company I work for would buy several of them.
Nice comment! I hope that sinks in with the manufacturer!
I love this content. I'm not worried about watching an hour's worth of it for sure!
that's a very heart warming sentiment, thank you
Very nice video Greetings from Greece SIR!!!
Thank you very much!
@@project-326 you welcome SIR!
One issue that cheap array spectrometers suffer from is straylight, especially excess signal
In the blue/UV. Grading instruments can have order sorting filters and multiple gratings to eliminate. This one has some filtration on the pixels and a magic algorithm. I’d have done some tests with a broadband source and a thick bit of various schott coloured filters, see if you get any signal where you should see none. You could also check you “higher order effect” hypothesis by filtering the source so there is no light in that spectral region and then seeing if the higher order lines appear.
Calibrated, how, against what and for what sources?
Interesting little device. No numbers out is no sales made. No way to check noise floor, stray light etc. roll on part 2.
indeed. So much is not defined but that only means that there is more to learn...
Liked & subscribed!
Really appreciate your testing of affordable micro spectrometers that can be used by science oriented diy'ers for all sorts of applications.
I'm particularly interested in greenhouse growing of edible crops over all 4 seasons. Especially the quality of light reaching plants through combinations of glass, clear plastic, shade cloth, and even artificial lighting sources.
I'm sure other application will occur to me as I progress in my diy homesteading experiments.
Thanks for your detailed analysis of product performance and cheeky & accurate observations about excessive capitalist marketing strategies that would hobble potential customers. (With all of the existential crises that we humans are facing in the 21st century, what is most needed are innovations that are affordable, full featured, extensible and, where possible, even open sourced - so that maximum global reach is achieved. Profits can come from widespread global market penetration & large volume deals with STEM-oriented organizations.)
Thank you! I hope the message get through too.
To the manufacturer: I direly want a spectral analyzer tool. if you add a CSV export OR a CRI rating, I would try to buy it if it is available in Germany. Please add CSV export or CRI measurement
Thanks for the feedback!
CRI would be neat!!!
@@leandroebner1405 That's a really nice suggestion, let's mention that to Torch Bearer as well!
It was a pleasure to watch something without u-tubes con-job ads that sometimes run longer than the actual video. I don't know, do we want to attraction the monsters attention with a subscribe and a like. Well I've done it anyways so we'll see what happens. But keep your head down.
Does ionizable radiation make the florescent coating on LEDs glow? what is the strength of this ionizable radiation? Can florescent coated LEDs visually indicate the presence of fallout? Assume they had these LEDs in Pripyat will they see unpowered glowing LEDs?
Also does ionizable radiation damage the florescent coating?
Another question. Since florescent material degrade with time will florescent coated LEDs lose their color after decades?
Well that's a good few questions...
OK, so fluorescent materials are used as scintillation crystals in devices like gamma ray spectrometers, but each type of fluorescent material has different wavelengths that it will be excited by. I would doubt that the materials used for LED production would be useful for gamma rays.
Another issue is the number of photons. gamma rays have a LOT more energy per photon, if you had a gamma ray source that emitted the same number of photons as just a small LED, you would basically have a death ray on your hands! Because the number of gamma rays photons is pretty low in the background, gamma ray scintillation crystals need to be connected to detectors that can be sensitive to just single photon events.
Radium watch dials, for example, lose their luminosity in a few decades as the fluorescent material crystal structure becomes damaged by years of alpha particle bombardment, and stop glowing. The dangerous thing about that is that the Ra-224 has a half-life of about 1600 years. People often think that dials that no longer glow are no longer radioactive which can lead to some poor decision making in the disposal of the dials.
I would assume that there will be a small amount of similar damage by a 450nm blue photon on an LED flourescent coating, but given that the energy of a photon at these wavelengths is about 10^9 times lower, I would assume that the damage would accumulate a billion times more slowly.
A reasonable software in English is a prerequisite for international marketing.
Is it so difficult to remember the language and the COM port?
Is it that difficult to install a usable image export?
Nice vid! I would lose the text-to-speech to be honest.
That's a tough one. All the previous videos on this channel only had 'posh Arthur' as the narrator, this is the first one with a human voice and already some regular viewers are worried that Arthur will be fired.
People seem to have a very wide spectrum of opinions on this subject...
That would be a sad loss!
😉
Morgan, the listing for the Little Garden spectrometer now mentions:
"The algorithm of the software has been modified (adding irradiation correction, removing background noise, etc.) to measure relative intensity more accurately, and the color temperature, color coordinates, and color rendering index can be calculated with an accuracy of more than 90%"
He provides a link to this modified version. Have you used this modified version of Theremino for the tests in this video?
I wasn't able to notice a difference in the versions...
Can you do a video on the FS 5000 firmware upgrade. I'm going to try and install it soon once I receive the st-link v2
Is that the GISSIO one? To be honest I quite like the nice clear display of the manufacturers UI, but please do let me know what you find out...
I’m surprised they could even find a usb mini b port to put on it.
the cable is a USB-UART converter...
As long it's not an old pink parallel port xD
Thanks!
You bet!
Good idea.
it is a cool idea, I now carry this everywhere with me in my work bag...
Since it appears that this new model has a reflected diffraction grating (im hoping it is surface reflective) and they made their own sensor, im wondering if they could increase the spectral range further into the UV. If that is not possible to keep it in budget, it would be nice to see an affordable model that maybe starts in blue or violet, but can function down to 200 or 250nm.
yes its a surface reflective type...
@@project-326 good! There's hope!
@@jimzielinski946multiple order issues and the fact not much transmits at those wavelengths could damped your hope.
@@peterwoolliams1283 I understand that if they attempt to go into the UV, they have to make sure all the optical components and materials don't absorb UV along the way. I'm thinking about using such a device with microscope illuminators that (they claim) pass UV as short as 250nm. (Some of the quarts lenses I have claim to be rated to 200nm). eBay has been great for finding deals for most of my hobby, though, (working) UV spectrometers are not one of them. Hope is all I have now!!!!
Where can I get some of those LED bulbs featured?
Perhaps they are available on other markets? AliExpress, DHGate, etc. what is the brand or model of the LED bulbs?
These aren't exactly the same, but similar...
www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006768029309.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.21.7489zyZpzyZpq5&algo_pvid=9c8238f8-6e27-4510-8a7e-5fac01281b6a&algo_exp_id=9c8238f8-6e27-4510-8a7e-5fac01281b6a-10&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%217.19%215.18%21%21%2152.17%2137.56%21%402167359c17198154480454097eb4e2%2112000039994356366%21sea%21HK%212881401294%21AB&curPageLogUid=boPe8mK5GVRW&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A
5nm resolution is still pretty bad. I'm just spoiled on real diffraction gratings, I suppose.
As I am carrying this device in my small laptop bag, I have realized that 5nm is not ideal but certainly good enough for a lot more applications than I have initially expected. It's quite surprising what you can do with even this limited resolution...
Looks to be a useful device, spoilt by the absolutely crap enclosure. If they dont have pride in the presentation then they are probably falling short elsewhere. My vote is for the little garden device and I hope the creator make some money from it before he get crapped upon.
This maybe a silly question but can these readings be used to get RGB or CMYK values for the colour you read with this device?
indeed it can, its one of the few advantages of the PDF report, there is a lot of data printed that shows all kinds of color standards...
@@project-326 ah that's great. Thanks
I would be interested by the TM2 however no access to the data no purchase! put an open-source software on it pls. Finally the mini USB plug is outdated. Cables start to be harder to find.
I think they chose a mini-USB because it is now just a USB cable, it is the USB-Serial converter and people are less likely to plug in a standard USB cable buy accident. At least that's my conclusion...
@@project-326 I'm not sure to fully understand. usb to serial you normally plug it to a normal usb port on your computer it work with usb-C as well all Arduino like stuffs use that no issue. Now if i have to understand that they use a mini usb plug for a different purpose than usb that is a drama guaranteed recipe as someone will end plugging this in a computer usb plug generating a magic smoke emission.
I thought your channel has been stolen
Don't worry, the humans can't get by without me...
So, how much will/do they cost?
I don't know yet. Mine cost around $50 USD here in CN on TaoBao but on Amazon there are going to be the extra costs of Amazon's margin (4 x higher than TaoBao) and shipping, logistics and fulfillment. I'm kind of guessing it will be over $60 once it reaches Amazon. Just a guess though...
That Max Headroom flashback
flash back? he's back!
@@project-326 as long as it's the buttocks flyswatter version of max headroom I'm absolutely down with that. (Pirate incident)
A Max Headroom reference, I guess we're the 3 oldest people here :)
@@WaffleStaffel The channel stats show that the highest demographic for the channel is 65+
So we might just be the babies...
@@project-326 Oh dear lord, I wasn't expecting that, but I'll take it.
Sent you an email about the high pressure sodium lamp. Something doesn't look right :) I can't wait to receive the Little Garden spectrometer so I can test myself.
I just replied. I'm really keen to learn how you get on with the fulfillment process...
Sorry to be that guy but you should have locked the white balance on the camera shooting the test footage. It shifts noticeably when you change light sources.
Great work though - I appreciate the video!!
I use my phone to make the videos (don't have the kind of cash to be buying pro camera gear yet) and I can't fix the exposure or WB on that. For photos, there is a 'pro' mode that lets me adjust anything I want, but for video Its just a choice of two f-stops...
But I like the suggestion. Makes total sense to comment on that ^^
@@leandroebner1405 Yes, particularly when the subject matter is "optical technology"...
It drives me mad, I bought this XiaoMi phone because it has an enormous array of optics - never realized that video was going to have zero settings.
@@project-326 you can try using a third party app. Most of the HW supports manual features, it's just not implemented in the OEM firmware of camera apps. There's an android app called "open camera". Either you find it in your app store or you can search for an .APK file to use it. It's open source by Mark Harman
Re the artificial light ..you may have chosen "silicon enhanced "
That's so weird, the second pink light we almost called "Silicone Enhanced", to keep with the theme of the first one.
PEACHES - F*** The Pain Away
it had to be done, Arthur insisted...
The one thing i don't understand is that if you make a product for "nerdy" people why do they go with windows as the OS for their applications?
STEM people are used to linux, some even talk Octave in their sleep 😀
Windows is over.
I'm a nerd and I use Windows.
Neat.
5:31 How can this determine wavelength with just a few wavelength sensors? Our eyes can't determine wavelength, e.g. red and green together look yellow, just like yellow looks.
We cannot determine wavelength, but we can see the difference between a white light with more of less blue, etc. The three white versions of white LEDs tested should show that strongly enough just from the video itself without the spectrometer.
Mixing a small number of pure colors will confuse the 'eye' but with a more white spectrum available, we become quite sensitive to color mixes.
I always remember the strip light in the kitchen as a kid that had that stark white light verses the filament lights in the other rooms.
Red laser pointer: IR peak a "higher order diffraction line"? As in harmonics? But that's a lower frequency. Sidenote, I think these graphs should be orientated with the lowest frequencies on the left and highest towards the right as both radio waves and ionising radiation are.
I agree but in optics its wavelength that is the unit of the day and red to the right seems to be the standard. Ironically, as you move up in wavelength, the units change to eV and the graph is back to the correct sense again...
@@project-326 I'm a foundation-level ham operator, based in the UK (M7TVD) and from our viewpoint the radio spectrum goes from left to right in terms of frequency (conversely, right to left in terms of wavelength) and is represented so on our contemporary transceiver's "waterfall displays" - an animated graphical representation of the bands. (SDR receivers do this as well.) This mirrors the higher end of the EM spectrum as usually represented. Radio operators tune-in to frequencies but refer to subsets of those as "bands" and these are expressed by their wavelength in metres on the LW, MW and SW, up to VHF where they're now expressed in centimetres and onwards and upwards.... Shame that the spectrum is shown backwards in optics. My OCD demands consistency! 🙂
@@DennisSantos As an RF design engineer, I agree with you completely, but convention is just that. All the major spectrometer software also works on wavelength with red on the right.
@@DennisSantoshaha. Hi Dennis. Greeting from JN47 :)
Yep, it's indeed sometimes kinda weird. The EM spectrum sometimes uses freq, wavelengths, eVs... Just depends on the nature of physics you're studying, for nuclear physics it's MUCH more interesting to know the energy of the photons rather their wavelength.
In ham radio, it's all about antennas and propagation. Wavelength is super useful here.
Glad to see Hams here as well :)
73s, DM8LE
What about an ultra violet "flaslight"?
In part 2...
hmm. the export functionality and an overall improved app could well be made by reverse engineering the protocol and some python.
I'm going to be looking at that, let's see if they decided to encrypt the serial data across the link...
he handle sun with bare hands!
just some of the dumb stunts that CZcamsrs do for clicks, eh...
Ah! Using your own voice this time around?
Edit: Max Entropy 😂
No, Max is a human...
:-)
@@Posh-Arthur LOL - This channel is growing in leaps and bounds- excellent work!
Nice work. It seems pointless to hold back on software because after all, these low-end devices are uncertified and will not be certifiable.
yup, I'm guessing its just that they don't have the team that is specialized in firmware of software. Their team seems to be made of of materials scientists, algorithm specialists, etc, but EE and SW seems to be lower order functions for this start up.
can i use that 50$ spectrometer to identify gemstones ... ? what is a 'Raman spectrometer or 'Raman microspectroscopy' ? i want one that does not cost 6000 euro bought from GIA (Gemeological Institure of America)
You need a powerful green laser and some narrow blocking filters to detect the Raman excitation (which can get swamped by normal fluorescence anyway). Anything above 5mW needs great care!
@@peterwoolliams1283 i did not even know Raman spectroposcy ,, or such, was exiting , anything, but ok.
question then becomes, can i use a 5mw green laser to aim,, i just assume, trough the gemstone, and into this device, and read a number , that is a permanent identefying number ?
@@QuadDerrick unlikely, the Raman signal is small and very close to the illuminating laser wavelength, hence the need for good blocking filters. See if anyone of CZcams has reported anything. Any spectrum you obtained would need interpretation to quantify things.
I prefer Arthur over Max, but I know I'll lose this one. Peace!
let's see how things progress. "Posh Arthur" will be remaining as a fixture on this channel.
I will be here in all videos, keeping my human pets in check.
Why is the deuterium arc lamp dreaded?
The UV is so short wavelength that my small lab room smells of ozone in only a few seconds of operating the lamp. I only ever use it for very short duration's of time, this thing won't just give you a suntan, it will give you skin cancer with careless use. This has a continuous spectrum that goes down just below 200nm.
Mind you the whole start up process (the sound of the PSU hum, switching modes, the heater glow, etc) makes if feel scary too, which is a good thing. One doesn't easily forget and become reckless.
@@project-326 I‘m actually in charge of producing these lamps here in Germany 😅. Maybe you have a very old lamp or a knockoff but technically this lamp shouldn’t produce ozone: inside the quartz body, there is a glass filter plate, cutting the wavelength lower then 2xx nm (need to look up the transmission diagram…). At least our Noblelight lamp does. Do you maybe have a Hamamatsu lamp?
How do you power it?
@@Bouregard3 Wow, that's really good to know that once again, I'm going to learn from the comments. I use a professional PSU that was specifically designed for the tube. The tube has a SiO2 window, instead of the "UV Pyrex" type (whatever that is) I had to pay a little more for that option.
I once measured the anode voltage, its around 80V once the arc is struck.
The spectra looks pretty legit, its certainly D2 being ionized inside the lamp, H2 would be VERY different. I have seen quite few other reports of O3 being generated during operation, mostly from Japanese tubes. UVC is certainly going to generate some O3 with 200nm, even though it doesn't get down to the 160nm peak O2 absorption band.
FYI, I have now looked at the spectral output of this same tube with 2 different spectrometers, neither of which are capable of seeing the whole UV output from this lamp, but that is why I like to test these cheap devices with the D2 lamp, I can define the shortest wavelength pretty easily.
Mind you, my nose is pretty well trained with O3, I have done a lot of work in the distant past with VERY high voltage generators (100 to 500 kV continuous, up to 500uA).
Please I would love to know more. How would a 'knock off' be more effective at creating O3?
@@project-326 Can you give me your email address, I could send you some information. (Or WeChat 😁)
@@project-326Any way I could send you some information about these lamps?
Without .csv output or preferably an api, this is but a toy.
Thanks for the comment - every comment that helps to convince the manufacturer is valuable.
.csv please.
great video until 23minute... a consumer uv laser with pump diode?? no way, 2nd order diffraction! such parts make me question the rest of the video and its accuracy.... also shining an unknown laser directly into the aperature.... dunno
Yes, I just learned this too from other comments, I'll make the corrections in part 2. I had assumed these were similar to the system used on green laser pointers. This channel is as much about learning myself, as anything else.