MLS Is Bigger Than You Think
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
- In this video we compare the financial power of MLS teams to leagues from around the world including LigaMX, the English Premier League and the Dutch Eredivisie.
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0:00 Intro
1:28 Sponsor
2:03 MLS
4:38 Liga MX
5:12 Colombia
5:49 Argentina
7:09 Brasileiro
8:55 Scotland
11:04 Eredivisie
15:04 Championship
17:17 Ligue 1
18:03 Serie A
19:22 La Liga
20:27 Bundesliga
21:33 EPL - Zábava
MLS is so much fun to watch. This last final between LAFC v Philadelphia Union was one of the best games I have ever watched. I was borderline having a panic attack with the suspense
Amen brother
Best MLS Cup final of all time, no question. And I'm a Union supporter
2022 MLS final and the World Cup final were the best footall matches in 2022 by far
Was excruciating but exhilarating to watch in person as a Union fan. 2023 is our year!!
I watched the 2nd half of that game and it was insane.
I find it laughable when people are quick to criticise the mls rather than try and acknowledge the fact that they are trying to make it a better league. Am from Africa and I gave mls a chance and I have to say I haven't been disappointed. I also like the playoffs format cause it give teams that didn't finish as the number one seed a chance to win the cup
It's better than Mexican league I tell u that
I knw right de mls is sooo much to watch than liga mx .liga mx better watch out cause mls is coming
@@ezequielblondetto152 Count the CCL trophies throughout the years 😂
@@MasterDifootball Nobody cares about that bs tournament that favor Mexico all the time. Ur opponents in the past years have been central America clubs and and the ameture era of MLS. Now MLS is getting serious and can win the Club World Cup which if achieved eventually ur 6000 conchampiins won't be worth 💩
@@ezequielblondetto152 MX team has reached the CWC final and lost to Bayern by one, closer than any mls team has gotten 😭 and an MX team has won the South American cup beating Brazil 😭 and MX team has beaten USA in the the US more than US beaten Mex in the USA 😭
This is going to be my first year that I’m following the MLS, thanks to the Apple TV+ deal. Very much looking forward to being able to follow my Minnesota United FC from overseas. :)
So keep up with your coverage and commentary, I enjoy your show quite a bit.
Oh nice, welcome to the family!😃 Without doxsing yourself of course where are you from?🤣
That’s why I love it so much!
@@Wolplum I’m from the US, but I live in the Arabian Gulf
Apple TV+ sub here too!
Adjusting for cost of living may be relevant here. Take the Argentine league for example-most teams payroll is on par with MLS in $USD, but when we adjust for cost of living/purchasing power, player take home value is about 2X due to the 50% lower cost of living. Luxury goods obviously don’t follow this modifier as closely and might even be more expensive outside of the US, but still a relevant point
I'd also suggest that MLS will have to pay a bit more to attract non American talent, which may be inflating their costs a bit. I wouldn't just equate cost to how good the squad is, it definitely helps, but it isn't everything. Some clubs Europe, especially in the Premier League, spend a lot of money and don't get their bang for their buck that their spending power would suggest and I think the same is the case in MLS.
These numbers are encouraging but they also show it may be time to get rid of the DP spots altogether and use a salary cap that gives teams the freedom to spend how they want. If you consider a team with a $10M payroll sounds good but if two or three players account for half that there is less left for the rest of the squad. I feel like if Messi does come he should be the last DP then go to a salary cap with a $10M floor and a ceiling at whatever the highest payroll is st the time.
Do away with all spending limits and let them enter the open international transfer markets like the rest of the worlds tops leagues.
@@jgons this would help the league to grow immensely.
without promotion and relegation, I think uncapped spending would hurt the league. One of the attractions for me is that about 50% of team fans can hope to win the cup or have a great cup run... This is due to the parity, even if it is artificial. This is the one thing I don't like about European football. Now, I will say the cap needs to be raised and we should add DP spots. I always thought that the league should start by adding a position DP spot for center backs because defense is lacking big time in MLS. Not sexy... I know... jaja...
@@jgons Get out of here with that European mentality. I don’t want a repeat of other leagues with massive spending disparities. I would rather the league grow together as a whole and maintain parity. That’s the difference between sports in America, every team and city feel like they have an equal shot as long as the team is managed correctly.
NFL model ftw! 50% of league revenue is the hard salary cap. Teams have to spend a minimum of 89% of cap and on average 93%. No hoarding cash and profit, spending a lot on players without bringing major financial risk and while maintaining parity!
First got to say content like this for MLS would have been unthinkable 10 years ago since I was following it. It's awesome to see it now.
Even the same goes team salary wise where in 2012, 17 out of 19 teams were spending a total of $3 million.
Yes i remember trying to check stats for 2 dc united players like 2 or 3 years ago and ESPN didnt even have them updated.
Anyone else excited to see how the newest MLS team ( Saint Louis City SC) is going to do this season?👀
Doing fairly well so far...
5-0-1👍
Top team in the Western Conference already
As you mentioned in latter portion of your video....the growth potential of these MLS clubs is huge. The United States IS the sports market of the world and if the world's game can catch on here, then the sky is the limit. We already see that big European clubs will sell out NFL stadiums for summer friendlies. Once larger markets like New York, Houston, Dallas, and Chicago can get their crap together and put together some good teams with a downtown stadium and fun atmosphere, the league will really get some more eyeballs.
The problem with aiming for the huge markets just be ctheure huge markets is that they have to scrble to create a soccer culture.
Expansion needs to take that heavily into account. For example, I often see Detroit mentioned becuase it's 4 million people but it would be the same. Whereas a smaller large city like Vegas (I have biased interest here but still) is only 2.2 million but that culture is here already.
@@Adamdidit Detroit has its own culture building around their lower tier team. Their fans put together money to renovate their stadium. They have a following, and hey, Toronto Lynx and Atlanta Silverbacks had crap attendance and those two towns turned out ok when they got MLS franchises. "culture" is easy to create when the owners can pull up the bandwagon and use existing fans to sell the experience to casuals. Then it grows among those people who get hype and they learn about the sport and pretty soon a culture is there. You can't plant a seed and wait 100 years for it to grow like a Euro league.
@@eboethrasher "We'll just create some support, its easy" is why Miami, Toronto, New York, Houston, and several other large cities have struggled with attendance. For every (sorta kinda) Boston there's a "LA is huge let's put 2 there" and one is half empty.
I admit I didn't know that about Detroit by the way. Obviously that's an L for me on that example. I went and looked up what you mentioned and I'm sold on Detroit. So yeah.
And even though you didn't make the comparisons (I did) I do feel the need to defend Vegas. We also put thousands in the stands for the Lights in our shitty converted baseball field. We fill seats like no other city in the country does when it comes to entertainment. We have a constantly growing population. We've got a wide variety of soccer clubs, fields, academies, etc. You basically don't have to create a culture here because it already exists. We recently even had one of our proposed ownership groups get impatient with MLS and go by a Prem team instead, and then give MLS shit for making it difficult. That would be Bill Foley, owner of the Golden Knights. You may or may not be aware of how well that worked out here, even though it was supposed to fail.
>with a downtown stadium
Location is important but it's overemphasized especially when people insist that a stadium needs to be in the downtown/central area of ac city. Where in Manhattan will the stadium be? Chicago? That's what I thought.
Houston DOES have a downtown stadium, nobody goes lol
I still don't watch a ton of MLS matches, but over the 15 years or so of being a casual fan I've definitely seen a huge improvement in the level of play. Play is much quicker now with a lot more one- and two-touch passing. The keeper play has always been excellent as American keepers have always been very athletic and above average shot stoppers. Overall the skill level of the players has definitely improved. But I also think that overall where MLS teams lack is depth. I think the starting 11 of most MLS teams is pretty solid. But I feel many of the depth players of much of the league don't compare with the other top leagues. Of course, I don't watch enough matches to state that conclusively, it's just a general feeling I have. ;)
I agree with your assessment. I have always thought that MLS depth gets better about one player per team a year. The benches are behind the big leagues, but getting better over time. This is hampered by some of the best American players skipping MLS altogether and heading to Europe at a young age.
You're spot on, the play has become much more watchable over the past 10 years, with teams like LAFC, Philly, Seattle, and NYC leading the way in terms of product on the pitch. In time, those will be the clubs that people who don't follow the league still know by name. There are still some awful defenses and plenty of squads lacking depth, but the top clubs are looking pretty good these days.
@@latdamon3602 NYC??? 😂😂😂
It doesn't help that in our nation, the sport is the not the first choice of most kids ho grow up playing it when it comes to the sport to play in high school, etc. Kids see no future in it and go for where they can make money. Until we can grow this league to the point where we can keep players here and stop being a feeder league, we will never be more respectable, and we will never have that depth. They have gotten far better about cultivating talent, but we are not all the way there just yet.
@@billb3454 We've got to find some way to keep the kids here, especially when so many of them get over there and either get benched or get loaned out to sides that are no better than the teams here.
Thanks for that bro, i have always enjoyed MLS but being EU based I was always seein Scotland, Eredivisie as much much better quality wise because that is the story spinned here
Goes to show that anti-MLS alive and well abroad.
10 yrs ago we didn’t have all these CZcamsrs taking about MLS I’m happy to see the MLS grow and it helps our National team as well.
Americans are getting tired of the NFL, NBA, and MLB bull crap. Bs calls rigged games refs deciding the outcome is getting very old. I dropped NFL for LAFC and never been happier.
Love this video! Thanks for making it! I love the MLS and hope it continues to grow!
The quality of play in MLS has risen a lot since I started following the sport around 2006. There's a lot of factors that go in to our quality in the states. Sure financial, but our federation structure, youth programs, fandom, geographics, culture, etc.
Great video this was very interesting. I'm bullish on MLS right now
MLS is well organized in due time we will open up salary cap. When that happens the eyes will all turn to America.
As of right now we still need to support smaller level teams in MLS and make sure we all succeed.
Thank Garber for that. People have hated on him for adamantly sticking to his salary caps over the years, but he stayed the course and created a sustainable league that's visibly improving over time by every metric. One of the unsung heroes of American soccer history.
@@latdamon3602 I agree with you, he had to put up with so much controversy. However the business structure and the players Union is damn strong!
@@latdamon3602 Hear hear! I'm a big fan of Garber. He's followed some proven methods (other US big leagues) for developing a sustainable league.
Well done, Sam! That is some very interesting data.
Been a fan from the start. Was at the inaugural Crew vs DC Untied match at the Shoe. So proud of our league.
This video is full of great research! Thanks!
Couple of things. One- MLS has taken a conservative approach to its finances, and that's served it well through the pandemic. Almost no other league was nearly as well prepared.
And two- keep an eye on the Canadian Premier League and the USL Championship. They have some talent, and they are growing and developing. The CPL now has two qualifying slots to CONCACAF Champions League and I hope that these leagues can develop a partnership in the future. I also hope that USL teams can have a path to a continental tournament in the future- perhaps a Europa League style tournament that doesn't yet exist. Anyway, these leagues are highly attractive for young players as we look forward to the future and they will be (and sort of already are) repositories for young talent from all over the Americas.
As we are looking at it now, the MLS "zone of spending" is zooming entirely past a whole lot of talent heavy leagues in this area. Just wait until the leagues BELOW MLS are on par with a lot of these top tier leagues.
It's coming, and it's coming pretty fast right now.
It seems like the Leagues Cup that's been going between MLS and Liga MX on since 2019 (and had 1 season cancelled because of COVID and 1 season cancelled last year because of fixture congestion from the World Cup) is supposed to be our equivalent of the Europa League. I know in the future the top 3 in the Leagues Cup will qualify for CCL.
The USL teams actually have a path to CCL, but they have to win the US Open Cup to do so. Had Sacramento beat Orlando City in the 2022 USOC Final, they would have qualified for the 2023 CCL
Great Video
Real eye opener
Thank you
Although not the highest level of play, MLS is my favorite league to watch due to the entertainment value.
Nice analysis. I had looked at some rough similar data and it looked like MLS salaries put them around 10-12 globally. Unsurprisingly, the Global football league rankings tended to follow the money fairly closely..
Great video. Had no idea MLS clubs spend more than some of these more well known international clubs.
Go Houston Dynamo 🤘⚽️
first off, great vid. good stuff here.
Now in reference to those numbers, the thing that's deceiving about the MLS numbers is that many of them are so high because of DP slots. So you end up having 3 players taking up the majority of your payroll so it inflates the numbers. this means the final team average will be skewed upwards and won't accurately reflect the quality of the team.
if MLS would get away from the DP situation and just have a salary cap & salary floor which essentially takes the average of what teams are currently willing to pay then you'll actually see the overall quality in the league increase without spending a dime more.
also, we need to factor in that sometimes south american teams pump up player prices when they look to sell to MLS because they know MLS teams have the money so are more likely to overspend for a player than other leagues in south america.
but overall, i still believe these numbers reflect well on the direction the league is headed
Pretty good video
Verry interresting
Keep up the good work👍
This is why I'm excited about the league and why I believe it will be a top 4 or 5 league within a decade. The league just has to raise the salary cap to allow for more evenly built teams.
Because of the lopsided payroll structure of the clubs, a $15 million South American club is going to have more quality than a $15 million MLS club.
I agree that the league will develop a lot thos decade. I dont think the goal should be (or that it can be) a top 5 league. If we could shoot to consistently be a top 7 or 8 league within a decade that would be huge. We need to look at the Dutch league as our level. That doesnt mean we have an Ajax, but instead that we are developing talent, generally winning the CCL most years, and compete at the WCC.
@@gregadkins2483 We will definitely be top 5 as long as Americans support their own league like they do overseas ones. It won’t feel like we are top 5 because our league won’t be as top heavy and I actually like that.
The MLS will never be a top 5 league because it doesn’t have the continental tournaments to make it attractive like the UCL, the closest they could get is by playing in Libertadores but even then, it wouldn’t compare to the UCL
@@xboscarx U.S. sports culture is different. Interstate and inter-city competition is more important than international. MLS doesn't need a lot of international fans to become big.
@@xboscarx You know nothing about America. Biggest basketball league, biggest baseball league, biggest hockey league, biggest collegiate sports leagues, and a league almost bigger than all of soccer in the entire continent of Europe - the NFL. Once the money is there, the players will come, and the biggest baddest athletes of America will be in the sport.
Fantastic analysis comparing all of the biggest the leagues in the world - I do remember MLS in the early to mid 2000s and the quality wasn’t as high as it is now…I didn’t know the financials were among the best in the world though - super cool because I’ve been to a good amount of MLS games in various cities (Toronto, NYC, New Jersey, DC, Boston) and the atmosphere is fantastic…DC United has the best food! One day it will definitely rival the top leagues in the world - but with more parity.
I am from Germany and I have to say I am really impressed by the mls. Have been watching since Messi went of to Miami and it's pretty fun.
This was fascinating.
To address potential criticisms of the MLS, it is worth calling out some factors that obscure the translation of payroll into league quality. Soccer talent is not a perfectly liquid market and there are many internalities and externalities baked in.
For example:
General prestige and competitive environment that UEFA Champions League brings makes makes it more attractive for a player.
Visa regulations making it challenging for players to freely transfer between countries.
Brazil and Argentina having highly valuable developed talent that is still getting paid under an academy contract
Saudi or Chinese leagues with a reputation for inflating salaries to attract talent but with little prestige.
You think Chinese salary inflated but not mls?
They need 14 million to extract a 30 year old veteran after his national team viability for a traditional power expires.
It’s crazy to think that even the biggest soccer league in the world, the English Premier League - is still smaller in payroll and revenue than the NFL, MLB, and NBA. The sports market in America is simply in$ane.
He isn't he is on 50 mill pounds a year
Those figures are wrong
@@alfredogedengbe2591 Look up the official revenue of the NFL, MLB, and NBA and compare it to the EPL. EPL is significantly smaller than any single one of them. Don’t underestimate America.
Well,duh. Of course it is, beacuse the US is the richest country on earth (at least on paper).
@@DynamicUnreal bro the EPL is still the most-watched league in the world
and holds the biggest tv rights the only reason those leagues make more is because of corporate dollars everything is inflated. now the epl is starting to see those coorpotate dollars as ell hat will change in the next ten years
the next tv cycle they'll be getting 10 billion a year from tv rights alone
@@alfredogedengbe2591 American viewers are worth more $ in advertising than many other countries. I didn’t dispute that the EPL was watched more around the world but it’s TV deal is only worth 400 million in America compared to the NFL’s 10 billion.
Great video! Solid channel.
Great content bro 🔥
Great video. Enlightening.
Great break down, Sam!
MLS is a top 4 league in the Americas. World wide is a difficult question but maybe among the top 10.
It’s borderline top ten. It’s pretty equal with liga mx.
@@drewkaton6785 Yes I was actually debating that when I wrote this. I felt generous. Cheers!
MLS is growing nice and steady. They're not trying to out-spend this league or that league for big names.
I really love the mls, its becoming competitive, for example this mls final was one of the best finals ive ever seen not only in mls or the us but the whole world. Also the atmosphere is growing, and it most big teams the tickets are selling out almost as fast as any other league
IMO the mls is compared to a league like the championship (english 2nd tier), the scottish premiership and even the swiss super league in terms of level
And all that is rather impressive given soccer is not a Big Four in terms sport popularity amongst Americans. No other country can say can field four top tier leagues while creating and sustaining new ones (MLS, MLR).
Thanks for this very educative video, answering your last question I think MLS has the right environment to grow to the point it can be a destination for some of the best players in the world in a near future as the league probably will keep growing as football becomes more popular there, the next world cup will be there, and as long as USA is this giant in the world economics I can not see it going any other direction than up.
One thing you forgot Sam is to look at the disparity of salaries in say, the top 18 players in each team because of DP salaries, as well as look at the median salary (not average because that includes the DPs)
That's something I was super curious about as well. What I found is that the disparity is not as big as you would think (TFC aside). At least not compared to squads from other leagues. In Europe you'll generally find the squads highest paid player commanding about 10 percent of the team's overall payroll. The salary distributions for Euro teams do not look so dissimilar to MLS teams.
Another thing you'll find, particularly in some of the lower tier Euro teams, is that loan players often make significantly more than the rest of the players on the teams. Of course, the parent club is often paying some portion of the loaned player's salary, but on paper, the loan guys function more or less like DPs in MLS in terms of payroll percentage.
I say all that to say... if I showed you salary by percentage for 20 teams from around the world it may be more difficult to pick out the MLS teams than you would think.
The real difference is when you look at how the salaries are split among position groups. For most squads in the world salaries are fairly evenly distributed among position groups. In MLS salaries tend to be disproportionately spent on attackers.
**These are my observations and shouldn't be considered stone cold truths.
MLS in the early DP era was a "stars and scrubs" league. Beyond the DPs, there could be a pretty severe drop off in quality. If a front office was very good, they could assemble a pretty decent starting eleven, but anything beyond that was going to be rough.
The addition of the other roster mechanisms has started to push quality further down the roster. We're getting to the point where the starters and the bench are all likely to be good players. Hopefully in a few years, we'll see competition between good players for bench spots. That's when we'll know the league has started to truly mature. When that process starts, it will mean teams will have enough players to rotate for all competitions without huge inconsistencies in quality.
If MLS can do that while maintaining relative parity top to bottom, it will be a true unicorn in world soccer. That league sounds pretty amazing.
@@carlos_takeshi Yeah, MLS has found ways with TAM and GAM to hide money and allow a much higher payroll than what would normally be allowed, buying down player contracts so they are not DPs, etc. Makes it confusing as hell even to fans, much less outsiders who want to try to understand it, lol.
It ranks similarly in mean average. There really aren’t that many DPs making big money. Most of the DPs are making $1-2m/year.
Consider looking at the data after removing the top (and bottom) 1 or 2 players per team. This would allow a better estimation of average payroll. For example, LA Galaxy DP's Chicharito and Costa account for 9 out of about 22 million total salary. This leaves only 13 million for the other 27 players, about 500k average. This would also make comparisons between leagues that don't have 1 or 2 players eating up the total salaries better.
I was thinking the same thing!
Cool vid, thanks
Great video! I think MLS talent might be overpaid based on talent but still puts things in great perspective
Some yes, some no. TFC is pissing away money. That inflated salary gets them nothing. Even if you single tabled the whole league, they were second from the bottom and got 1 point per match. So to some extent, looking at payroll is only one type of measurement. TFC sucks bad right now. Their salary management is poor ever since they got rid of Bezbachenko. Then again, he hasn't exactly known when to fire Porter here in Cbus, either. We finally got that done and made a great coach hire so I'm hopeful that our salary will work itself out. We did drop some people who were making a decent amount, so we will see where that takes us.
@@eboethrasher TFC can afford it. Their owner is rich, it’s an ownership group owned by two huge Canadian Telecoms - Bell and Rogers. They also own the Maple Leafs and the Raptors and several other teams. They don’t need to manage their payroll the same way.
What he is saying is 100% true and it needs to be stated. DC United just signed away a player from Leeds in the Preimiership.
in my opinion, Philadelphia has been the most consistent team over the past five seasons and has a payroll under $9 million. According to your website that you promoted in this channel there are 5 teams in French second division 8 teams in Spain second division 13 teams in the German second division 15 teams in the Italian second division, three teams in England league one and 21 teams in the championship with equal or higher payroll then five of the teams that made the MLS playoffs last season.
The American economy and American sports market tower over all other countries in this potential. The MLS isn’t even close to reaching its peak and as they open up spending (and minimize rules and regulations on spending) we will see the league approach its potential a lot more 😁😁
I would like to see an addendum that compares the NFL to the EPL because I think that would illustrate the upper potential of what US markets can support. I think MLS can theoretically surpass that, since the NFL is dependent mostly on domestic revenue whereas the popularity of soccer would allow an NFL sized MLS to also rake in huge amounts of international revenue which is what allows EPL to be so high in the first place.
Payroll is the worst indicator of quality especially in the corporate American sports Market. MLS is listed at 14-16 in terms of on field quality but top 8 in money soley because of American dollars
To improve MLS, and US football altogether, teams need to invest in world class training facilities, youth recruitment and training. Only then you can find the top talents!
We have. It just takes time
That will undoubtedly come in time. There was a time when MLS teams didn't have soccer-specific stadiums or youth academies, all of that has changed.
Look at Philly. They did that and only spend 9 mil on salary
@@turgatur4283 I kinda have a love-hate feeling regarding football rise in America. On one hand, I can see the sport is growing there, on the other hand, I’m kindda afraid if suddenly the US is good at it!
@@holeefuk5690 I don’t think the money truly shows how good mls is. Yes some of our teams are rich but that’s just USA for ya. We still have a long ways to go if we wanna compete with European leagues. This video honestly values monetary value too much. It doesn’t tell the entire story
Very interesting video I'm in England and the problem for our teams is they over pay for most players because all other teams in Europe know how much money they have so value for money table we would be near the bottom lol
over the past five years in MLS almost 40% of the teams that make playoffs have a team payroll under $10 million according to this website and the research I did there are roughly 300 teams in continental Europe was a payroll equal to or greater than $10 million my question to you when most of these teams be competitive in MLS based on payroll
I am a subscriber to your channel and enjoy many of your videos. I hope MLS is really this high someday, but these numbers they show aren’t completely representative of each team, especially outside MLS (players Union gives verified data that this website uses). This website does some weird stuff with total team salary in the parts you are showing. The numbers you are mentioning appear to only be verified salaries for each team. This shows almost all MLS players on a team as they publish salaries. But the verified numbers are a much lower percentage of players in other countries. The one that made me dig a little deeper was Leeds United in the EPL appeared extremely low. Just clicking on Leeds to look at individual player salaries, as it only includes 7 verified salaries at 18.5 million dollars you show in the video. When you click on the team and they include the estimated salaries total for all Leeds players it is around it is around 59 million dollars. If one wanted they could be compared by looking at each teams estimated salaries after clicking on it, but I don’t have a free trial and Liga MX teams were locked for me. EPL and MLS are not locked on individual teams.
Stop making so much sense and spitting so much facts, Sam. Eurosnobs can't be exposed for their biases and cognitive dissonance. Just in the eyeball test you can see that MLS clubs are as good as mid table teams from all around the world.
They don't have the roster depth due to the rules, but their starting 11 and first few of the bench can compete at very high levels. Friendlies and tournaments have proven this consistently over the past 2 decades. I think they misunderstand just how much daylight there is outside of the EPL between the top teams of each league and the rest of the filler outside the top 2 or 3 sides.
MLS is basically the 8th highest paid league and their teams are worth much more in capital than the vast majority of teams around the globe.
The only things holding MLS back are the perception from non fans that won't give the league a chance and the MLS restrictions on salaries, roster limits, travel methods, etc. When the Apple TV money kicks in and the 2026 upsurge in attendance hits, there will be few barriers holding it back and we'll likely see a paramount shift in quality over the next few coming years following the World Cup held in the US.
Sidenote, without narco money being washed through Liga MX, they're in a world of trouble in staying afloat.
Biggest thing holding MLS back is MLS itself. The way they set up the roster building rules is hurting quality. MLS is already spending the money but majority goes to 2 or 3 DP players. Teams like Tigres and Palmeiras are spending less than TFC yet their teams are very well balanced, have quality players all around and even have depth while TFC lacks all of that and more than half its salary goes to 2 players. TFC can't spread its salary evenly to have a better team because of the MLS roster building rules (TAM, DP, U23 DP etc)
what website did you use to source this? i’d love to take a look around
Capology
One more question... do you know how roster limits (in terms of quantity of players) are managed in MLS vs. Europe or Latin America?
I love this sport, and there is nothing better than having a MLS team in my city. That being said, I think MLS will reach its full potential by 2030. I can’t wait to see it
Interesting to see that PSG, Real Madrid and Barcelona spend more than the top PL teams.
Do these numbers take into account transfer fees? The salary budgets for foreign teams might not quite cover all spending power.
I would also like to see the comparison of other developing league throughout the world particularly in Asia like that K,J, Chinese super league. Who are rapidly growing in the global market as well and have a much stronger GDP then countries in Latin America
Look into it and let me know what you find.
I don't think MLS fans really have a good reason to complain that people call the league weak, you can't just look at how much they're spending versus other clubs in popular leagues in Europe, and based on that say that MLS teams are actually very strong and capable to put up a serious challenge against mid-tier clubs in the top 5 leagues.
In MLS many clubs spend 5 million a year in a single player, and Toronto FC for example spends 14M just on Insigne, and that's a lot of mid-tier european clubs entire yearly salary budget, but that money on MLS is generally being spent on aging players that go there at the start of the decline on their careers, and are insanely overpaid otherwise they wouldn't have much reason to go to the MLS, meanwhile in Europe mid and low level clubs attract good players for really low salaries because they can offer opportunities for development, while playing in really strong tournaments that are among the best in football.
So while MLS has teams of 2 or 3 excellent (but generally aging) players, with a squad of below average players or decent youngsters that still lack in comparison to other countries' youngsters, European clubs have entire squads of good players, with much better played football because tactically the US is still really lagging behind the countries that are big on football (even Turkey or Belgium have much better managers, coaches and football development than the US).
And I'm not saying the US and the MLS haven't developed in the last 20 years, they actually made really big improvements in every aspect on their football, and they deserve much praise for that. I don't think American football deserves to be just dismissed or laughed at, not at all, but in my opinion you can't make and argument that the MLS is on the same level football-wise of an Eredivisie, or a Turkish League, a Russian League, or even Belgian League, the game in the US has improved drastically, but it's still behind at least 10 or 15 other leagues around the world, even though it deserves praise and attention of football fans
Great job Sam incredible research like always. MLS is a great mid tier league we need to buy low sell high like ajax for example of some of the Brazilian league clubs or Argentinian league we need to make a runs in club World Cup to bring in interest to our league and our players
Nah blud! To improve MLS, and US football altogether, MLS teams need to invest in world class training facilities, youth recruitment and training. Only then you can find the top talents!
@@holeefuk5690 yeah exactly buy low find the diamonds in the rough and sell them for diamonds
@@angelaboveall2297 No, if we keep selling players, we will never improve the quality of the league. Shipping off your best talent doesn't help grow or improve the league. Money does no good if you are sending away talent. Because new investments are a crap shoot. You can buy low all you want but only a small percentage of those are gonna sell high, and once you sell those, you are left with a hell of a lot less victories. Keep the talent here, improve the quality of the league, stop playing stupid all-star games against other teams from other leagues, etc. I always preferred the east vs west all star model. Us vs the world always felt dumb.
This was a great video... do you think that MLS is underselling and under marketing itself to the world, mainly to talent not fans? In addition to the idea of club salaries, you can also throw in that the US/MLS has great infrastructure which you can watch even EPL matches and many teams have rickety looking stadiums and other facilities. Never mind the infrastructure in smaller towns or second division clubs. The other question I can think of is, if Europe is typically spending less outside the big leagues and teams, are they just doing more with less in leagues like the Dutch league... or could the MLS really compete between similar salaried teams or even against lower salary teams in Holland? We need a real Club World Cup... Imagine the cash that would bring in. It's a wonder FIFA has dropped the ball on this.
FIFA is trying to get it to happen but UEFA is doing everything it can to put a stop to it. They don’t want FIFA to have the most prestigious Club tournament in the world.
In my opinion payroll it’s just have to budget of determining talent I would love to see these numbers floated with the overall spend of a team that acquired the talent that they’re producing on the field
I like Sam and the Yank Report ..as a guy in his 50s I remember as a kid the old NASL and to see it grow to what it has become is amazing..From L A Aztecs to LAFC....hate it when all these CZcamsrs are so quick to diss MLS
LAFC is on pace to outgrow the entire league in terms developing talent and winning. Their new partnership with Bayern Munich is an example of that.
Sam, First - thank you for link of capology. This is a better indicator of the quality of your team than Transfermarket. I thougt i was going to laugh at, what i though was going to be another hyperbole title just to get people to click link. Excellent presentation. The slary cap works for the greatest league NFL', It works for the NHL, it kind of works for the NBA. The investors of MLS didnt want to lose money and have their investemnt disappear like the old NASL clubs so they have slowly been building. I bit to slow for me but i am not an investor. i wish i was. I am not ready to boost MLS up the soccer league ladder just yet however i think MLS is still emerging and in a steady growth rate. The other leagues have kind of reached their peak.
thank you for the vid...
The finances confirm what my eyes have been telling me for some time now. MLS is a very legitimate premiership. No, of course it's not the best of the best. But, it is not a stretch to say it's the "best of the rest".
Of course, the very best of the Brazilian and Argentinian clubs would do very well in MLS. But I'm not convinced they would run away with the Cup. Outside the top handful of clubs, those leagues are downright poor - and getting worse.
The surprise to me was the Dutch league. They have consistent strong showings in European competition. It appears they punch far above their weight. That is probably due to the superb academies in Dutch football.
I am a Celtic fan, dyed-in-the-wool. Watching my club, and watching MLS, I have no illusions. Celtic would have serious trouble with at least a third of MLS - and they're a pedigreed club with a massive global fan base.
We are right now in a bidding war with MNUFC for a Korean striker. I have been telling my fellow Celtic fans that we don't stand a chance of signing the guy. They refuse to believe me. I should direct them to this video.
Good to hear things like this! Of course people like to watch the best quality stuff like EPL, but MLS is still typically a very entertaining league. I’d never bet on any match because you never know what the score will be!
Plus, the top MLS players are quality. For example: I’m an ATL United fan & just look how well Almiron has been playing lately for Newcastle. Absolutely crushing it. MLS biggest issue is squad depth but that will get better once the salary cap is raised again
@Tyler Rice not just Almiron. Mukhtar, Josef Martinez, Carlos Vela, Sebastian Driussi, Keaton Parks. There's a long list of very high quality players in MLS
What? Brazilian league is the most competitive outside Europe. You have 12 big clubs and all the clubs on the table can be the champion. If you put the low level Brazilian club on MLS they would win the tournament. You have no idea about the Brazilian league.
What's the site that's posted this information?
I did have visited the capology web and it says that the annual payroll for Lecce is 14mln eur. not 3mln , for udine 25mln not 8mln and bochum 17mln not 7mln I do not understand why such a differences. In Scotish league Rangers 28mln BP , Celtic 22mln BP
I don't understand how fans of teams outside these major clubs stay engaged knowing your team could never win, and if they do have a wild one off season like Leicester or lille, the big clubs will buy up all the quality your team has within 2-3 years, at least in MLS, although the quality isn't as good, as a fan, I know my team could win
And this is why the American sports system is much much better. There is 0 parity in soccer. Some leagues are not even worth watching because the same team wins every year (PSG, Real/ Barcelona, Bayern...)
@@adrienchl4265Well if you don't have relegation you're pretty much on the same boat.
Not bad for a rough analysis. I think measuring against average salaries and maybe adjusting for purchasing power parity would have painted a more accurate picture. That said, it does seem to me that MLS is somewhere close to a top 10 league in the world. That's pretty impressive given its youth and relative lack of popularity in the US. Of all the also-ran leagues in the world, the MLS is likely the only one that has the potential to eventually compete financially with the big ones. If soccer ever became the biggest sport in the country, then the MLS could potentially outstrip those leagues. Who knows if that will happen?
Exatamente MLS paga em dólares outros ligas pagam e suas moedas, lógico que ele não fez essa conta caso contrário a MLS sairia com ridícula, flamengo aqui no Brasil por exemplo ano passado faturou 1 bilhões de reais em receita quando qual clube da MLS ganhou 1 bilhões de dólares?
I’m too lazy to look it up but I would love to see NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL comparisons too
As a Mexican football fan (le voy Al Cruz Azul)I recognize that the MLS is a very good football league rather than our Liga mx there's a lot of corruption down here I honestly like the MLS and yes I believe that the MLS is one of the best leagues in the Americas.........
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The advantage that these other leagues have over MLS is their player development. They are able to draw from pools of far less expensive players to round out their first team. So, while they may appear the same in terms of payroll, the fact that these teams are able to produce young, inexpensive talent means that their squads are much deeper.
I would also point to the fact that a large percentage of MLS payrolls is skewed towards DPs. This creates a large payroll imbalance that also affects the depth of these squads as well.
If you saw MLS back in 96 vs today, you wouldn't believe you were watching the same league... still never found out what that alien logo had to do with Mutiny
I think the biggest problem with MLS clubs (TFC is a good example currently) is that they are spending most of their wage bill on 2 or 3 players and then there is a major drop of on the wages / quality of the rest of their roster. TFC is spending $36M, but $14M of that is going to one player, Lorenzo Insigne. Without him alone their wage bill would drop to $22M. Then you have 9 players on their roster that earn less than $100K. That is an even more significant drop off than some of these leagues (except maybe the Scottish League).
LA Galaxy is the same. $6 M on Chicharito, $3M on Costa and yet 19 players under $10K. Though the league may have parity the teams themselves do not.
It is good to see that they have grown out of the old phase of spending on 34-36 year olds who can't cut it any longer, and are investing on promising young talent who can be sold on for profit. Now they need to learn to spread the wage bill around more evenly and build a more solid roster so when they have all of these tournaments and injuries set in there is not such a drop off in talent. Yes, the league is growing and it is an exciting ride to watch it grow but this is one area where the owners need to really look at things and decide how to figure it out.
Honestly MLS is still seen as a retirement league, but not as a joke like it used to be, i see it as an emerging league on a par with Scotland (i live in the UK by the way)
Yeah rangers and Celtic are the only two Scottish teams that get respect from your average fan
It’s better than the Scottish league. MLS is way deeper
MLS has more potential upside than Scotland. USA population 330M vs. Scotland 5.4M. USA economy $23 trillion vs. Scotland $205 billion.
@@pteranodon6612 yep, I'd agree it has, how the sport has grown in the U.S is immense, the potential is ridiculous
@@drewkaton6785 i agree, i was on about in terms of worldwide reputation, in the future, all being well, MLS has potential to be massive
Data! Great breakdown, Sam!
I think where MLS has an opportunity to dominate is in analytics and being able to determine player quality much better than any other league in the world. Our other major traditional sports are neck deep in analytics and soccer teams in Europe and the rest of the world are severely lacking in that department.
I notice that in soccer the best players don’t always get the necessary credit or appreciation they deserve, most of the talent evaluation uses old methods (primarily the eye test) to evaluate players. If the MLS invests resources and innovates in that field like other American sports, they could have a massive advantage.
Well, just in my lifetime soccer has been working really hard to actually produce metrics. It's really only in the last 10 years that the statistics have gotten good enough to actually evaluate player impact mathematically. You started hearing people talk about things like "expected goals" and "chances created". So yeah, Europe is learning from USA sports all the time - where do you think VAR came from?
@@celebrim1 They are, but they are at least 10 years behind or more. Moneyball started in baseball all the way back in 2002. There’s an advantage there and the MLS should lean into it while they have that advantage. They could possibly snap up under-appreciated players and close the skill gap between continents as the salary cap continues to grow.
YES! You've touched on some things I've talked about for years, especially when American Eurosnobs turn their noses up at our soccer coaches, players and our potential for building from WITHIN. The US is the greatest sporting nation on the planet and we've always taken a more analytical and detailed approach when it comes to training, sports science, medicine, etc. A cursory count of Olympic medals compared to other nations speaks to this, as well the number of top leagues in the world we have. We're a fiercely competitive, capitalist and sport crazed nation. Increased interest brings investment. We also have the largest sport "think tank" on the globe which has spawned countless developmental associations, personnel and resources that extend into every area of sport... our massive collegiate system.
@@TadaiaUS is closer to create a good player on laboratory than having a natural talent like other countries do.
Granted, it's very early in the season, but, so far, all those Loonies haven't bought TFC very much. (And St. Lous are in first place. It's going to be an interesting season!)
Do the same comparison with average salary per player or average salary per starting 11 and the difference would be more stark. MLS will get there, but it's still got a ways to go to have parity with major leagues.
Spending is important but how much the teams make in income is more important. The Chinese league spends too. Good show
Salaries are one interesting metric. Do you give much credence to the SPI put out by fivethirtyeight? Just looking at the league wide averages it looks like MLS comes in at #14, between the Turkish Superlig and Scottish Premiership...quite a bit lower than the salary numbers suggest. Liga MX comes in at #10.
I just read up on their methodology and it seems pretty good. The tricky part when comparing MLS to other leagues is it is just so different. You don’t get the super teams in MLS but you don’t get the tiny bottom feeders either. Ultimately I don’t see a whole lot of utility in the discussion.
Payroll is great, but what are they spending it on. How much are they spending on transfers vs how much are they paying players? Are MLS teams needing to overpay bad players to convince them to come? How many world class players has MLS produced in the last 10 years vs Netherlands, Portugal, Belgium, etc…? There’s so much more context that is missed when you only look at player salaries
The problem is relegation/promotion is a culturally important part of football clubs in lower league deserve the right too dream about getting to the top usa hasn't gotten that and will not get respect globally
This is an excellent payroll breakdown. 10 out of 10.
Wow. Really interesting. 1. One thing about the US, though, is soccer is competing with 4 other major sports. 2. I wonder if TV will eventually kill the lower teams in Europe the way it did minor league baseball here. 3. Some day, if you haven’t already, could you explain where USL fits into the bigger picture? They are 2nd tier, but are in some potentially bigger markets such as Detroit and Pittsburgh and Tampa that could be in MLS. USL has spread a huge footprint with its various levels. Do they have a long term game plan? Other than to always be 2nd and 3rd tier?
I did an interview with USL VP Greg Lalas about a year ago. You can check that out.
@@YankReport Thanks. I saw that. Very good, but I’m still wondering how this will play out. I’m betting on some kind of umbrella agreement like baseball made in 1903 - different, of course, but an agreement to work together.
@@alfredbarten4901 Without pressure from US Soccer, it will take a long time before MLS would even consider opening up a single slot to a USL team, considering there is no actual combined structure between the two leagues, and even less so now that MLS took out their second teams from USL and made their own development league. Yes it is similar to the days of the reserve league but that was just expanded rosters for the first team. This is a full-fledged #2 team system. I would picture once MLS hits 30 teams or more, discussing making an MLS 1 and MLS 2 where they test pro/rel and have like 20 teams in 1 and 10 teams in 2, and have it be closed loop between the two only. Maybe some years down the road, they open up MLS 2 to a single USL team, and one MLS 2 team goes down. The key is the money split, and they can't just drop the MLS team that goes down entirely off of the money split or else they would be done for. And most people who invest in a team in one league don't want to hear that their team might drop to a lesser league. That would not be a sound investment. In the US, people avoid making unsound investments.
@@eboethrasher I've said to friends for a while now that Garber is bringing over 30 teams into MLS to potentially create a second tier if it makes sense and is sustainable down the road. But I believe he WILL seek to involve the best candidates of other leagues to create about 20 teams per tier initially.
Im Bullish on MLS
Does anyone remember when Sporting Kansas City beat Man United?
While total spending on payroll is important to look at I also think it’s important to look at median salary across leagues and teams. MLS may do worse in that respect because of the fact that DPs make so much money
There are some DPs who make significantly more than the rest of their team, but that's not representative across the league. Not every team has a guy making more than 15% of the total payroll. I'd say, based on my observations, that the typical salary distribution for your typical MLS team is not worlds apart from the typical salary distribution for a typical non-MLS team. Top guys earn around 10% of total payroll and it drops off from there.
@Yank Report Exactly that's used to be the common refrain more than 5 yrs ago when people started to say these MLS teams are starting to spend. Folks would go it's all on the DPs it skews the avg salary. Well that's not really the case anymore as MLS have added non DP spending mechanisms like TAM where you can sign a extra 3 or so $1-2m guys on each team and have recently added U-22 allocations where teams can go grab another 2-3 guys on 650+k guys.
Stuff like that have even things out. Besides it's not like those Euro teams payrolls weren't skewed by the 2 or 3 big name signings skew the entire team avg salary.
It ranks similarly in mean average. A report just came out this week with that info. There really aren’t that many DPs making big money. Most of the DPs are making $1-2m/year.
I found capology to be in accurate in terms of the Turkish league which I have knowledge of. So for the rest of the leagues outside MLS (which has a full published list of salaries) I'm not certain these #s are fully accurate, especially towards the lower end of the table
I also see the table having different data then the club summaries on capology. In this video it shows Hull at £4m, but the Hull section on Capology shows £11m yearly wage
My friend in indonesia say that MLS is not fun because no relegation, but when he watching MLS is different, it more fun, well for me MLS is more fun to watching, because there more chance to be champions even your team is rank 9 in the zone
M.L.S bright future
No doubt
america pays their atheletes more in general and I imagine MLS teams generate a lot more money per viewer than most other leagues from more advertising. the salary of a player 100% doesn't indicate skill. for example a lot of 38-40 year old pros from the top 5 league would struggle in spfl or eredivisie but are paid loads in the MLS because they bring viewers to the teams. still I think MLS is written off too easily but the quality of play isn't at that level yet imo at least from what I've seen
I think it is reasonably fair to say that on the whole, if we look at all players in world soccer, a player's salary is a good indication of their skill level and that there are exceptions to this rule.
Lol struggle In the SPL (Note the proper SPFL term we found the SPL fan🤣🤣🤣
No not at all.
@@eddygee694 Tbf i meant more theyd struggle at celtic or rangers. The rest of the SPL is probably on par with MLS in terms of quality.
PSG's actual wage bill is 720 million a year, just revealest in the official finance report.
Does anyone know what website he gets this from?
Capology
@@YankReport thanks!
A lot of this info is misleading if you’re trying to extrapolate the money mls spends to the quality of the league compared to other leagues. Mls has to pay an mls tax to draw players to the league or else foreigners won’t come for the same pay they could get in their home country. Also these countries domestic talent is far better than our domestic talent which raises the quality of the league on the cheap. Al nassr for example signed Ronaldo for 200m a year, their payroll is higher than ajax but they’re not a better team. Also a lot of S.American teams pay players under the table (mls teams do as well I guess).
when you have a bunch of teams on a league it's fun to watch.
MLS in the Americas in Marketing and Economically is even with Brazil in My Opinion
But my top 4 America's Leagues are
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Brazil takes the Cakes because it has invested immensely in Stadiums,Sponsor and world Class Players and is always on top of the Libertadores and sends dozens of players to Europe.
Argentina is Argentina Baby a league that always has competitive level and is viewed as that by the world. Argentina Super Liga has a very intense style of Play and there Clubs are always Competing in the Continental level too. And they also send dozens of players to Europe even there 4th tier division does this Amazing!
Ecuadors League has been the only one in the las Couple of Years to compete and even dethrone Brazil and Argentina Clubs. Independiente Del Valle a Clear Example of this a team that just crowned itself a 2 time Sudamericano Champion also Ecuador has sent alot of players to Europe Recently
And MLS has the big Bucks And Marketing and is bringing interesting young talent from South America. Constantly sending players to Europe and dethroning Liga MX from concachampions MLS is definitely a Top 4 league in the Americas
E.P.L
The king of the castle
21 teams in the championship with equal or higher payroll then five of the teams that made the MLS playoffs last season.
The problem with MLS is the roster building rules they have. A team like Toronto does spend over $30M but more than half of that money goes to 2 player only. If they wanted to spread that $30M on their roster they wouldn't be able to do it due to the roster restrictions. MLS can easily modify its rules and increase quality without the need to spend more than it already is. Look at teams like Tigres and Palmeiras, spending as much as MLS top teams yet those teams are more well balanced, with better all around players and with depth (something MLS teams lack too).
Palmeiras is not a good example of management.