The 80's D&D Comic that Became a (terrible) Video Game | Snarf Quest
Vložit
- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- Level up your next tabletop game with maps from Czepeku: / czepeku
Snarf Quest Tales is a god awful video game based upon a classic D&D comic from the 1980's written and illustrated by Larry Elmore, one of the most iconic official D&D artists.
Join me as we explore the comic, the game and the history of D&D's early pulp fantasy art movement!
Support the channel on Patreon: / williamsrd
Join the Discord: / discord
Follow me on my least favorite website: / willsysrefdoc
00:00 Video Start
00:53 The Red Box Controversy
06:07 Larry Elmore & D&D Artwork
22:54 Snarf Quest - Hry
Level up your tabletop RPGs with Czepeku!
MAPS: www.patreon.com/czepeku/
SCI FI: www.patreon.com/czepekuscifi
SCENES: www.patreon.com/czepekuscenes
So... what was the game? What was the plot? What did you do in the game?
Is it just a terrible retelling of the first arc of the comic?
To be fair to Snarfquest, it’s very faithful to your average D&D campaign to have bad voice acting and unfunny jokes.
Also, lots of theft, murder hobo-ism, misunderstandings, and plans going sideways in surprising fashion almost every time a plan is made.
And when all-else fails, just absolute cartoon-logic.
Not to mention how many campaigns don’t get finished.
@@jakubmakalowski6428 Oh, hell yes... Like 75% of mine over the last 25ish years I've played- anything more than a fairly simple module has a good chance of running out of steam after about a year.
Snarf having a gun is objectively both the funniest and most horrifying thing that could happen
I was enjoying the art discussion so much that I forgot this video is about a Snarf Quest game.
Can't say I expected a short dissertation on the merits of thirsty D&D art when I got up this morning, but I'm here for it.
I always appreciate a bit of sense talking about where the pendulum is supposed to come to rest instead of swinging wildly between two cartoonish extremes.
Snarf is clearly a powerful wizard as he knows the most powerful spell of all: a gun.
Alakablam!
he stole that from the movie Wizards. " i am gonna show you a trick mother taught me when you where not around"
@@markusnavergard2387"I'm glad you changed your last name, you son of a bitch!"
*POW!*
Worked in Wizards ;)
@@ZacHawkins42
Abra-Kablambra
In Defense of 3rd Edition's art: Wayne Reynold's work was awesome enough to clear a path for him to work on Pathfinder and set the standard.
Wayne Reynolds is a supremely competent artist in a technical sense. He just makes the dumbest choices with his designs.
I liked pre-Reynolds 3.5 better honestly.
his stull looks crappy and very adolescent
14:04 Ah, Record of the Lodoss War, a great anime that was based off of a Japanese D&D replay transcript that ended up spawning its own gaming system called Sword World.
Peak!
There's an english translation of the replays that were published in the magazines on the Internet Archive if you didn't already know. It's fun watch them deal with D&D Basic mechanics.
William has made a video on this topic a year ago (Capcom's Forgotten D&D Games)
BTW I tried watching Record of the Lodoss War recently, as well as reading the replay book, and it didn't age well. I've been bored most of the time. The animation is also not as impressive as someone has been saying (And it couldn't be amazing even in theory, since Japan was in the middle of the economic bubble bursting at the time and the OVA had to fit much stricted budget than before). The artstyle looks nice and cozy and nostalgic, but that's about it.
I understand how iconic is Record of the Lodoss War and how it walked the unthreaded ground, but I think people should temper their expectation before watching it.
@@Nemo2342 That translation is also really funny because in the preface, the translator goes on about how Japanese people must see alignment differently due to cultural differences because they use Law and Chaos more than Good and Evil... but if you know anything about Basic, the only three alignments the game uses are Law-Neutral-Chaos
I am a 1000% evangelist for the glorious, heavy metal, bad ass, sexy, era of fantasy art. The 70's and 80's were a golden era for this kind of thing.
Sexuality being COMPLETELY removed from D&D I believe is a bad thing. I’m not saying every woman needs double D breasts and a chainmail bikini….but do we all need to be covered neck to ankle??
@@johndavey2340 The problem is that "sinful images will lead people down a sinful life" American puritan mentality hasn't died out with the loss of respect Christianity experienced with the early 2000s. It just moved into people who call themselves "progressive". Ironically it's sometimes the people who did offensive sexy images who are now against the horny (like the lead animator woman from Skullgirls).
I like how the avoided the obvious joke of telling Michelangelo to put pants on the statue of David but still had to put a censor bar over him
Hey
The You Tube gods cannot be argued with 😂
Yeah, thank the Americanization of our cultures for that. To this day, replicas of David in the US get censored.
80's Takhisis looks like she's about five seconds away from belting out "If I Could Turn Back Time" on her "Farewell" tour, lol.
You, sir! Yes, sir.
Considering Dragon Magazine had Bard on the Run parody songs you aren't far off.
This is the level of obscure I expect and seek from this channel. Keep it up and eventually we will get the backstory of random napkin drawing by famous DnD artists that someone turned into an RPGmaker game!
Huh...you know Id be down for that ;)
I think the lack of KMFDM t shirts in World of Darkness books has proven that table top gaming art has fallen from grace
It's like they don't even know any vampires.
It's true, & not even a Ghost band tee.
When I was in school I used to tell everybody that KMFDM stood for Kill Mother Fucking Depeche Mode
I have no pity for the majority
Jar Jar Binks bears a not-so-subtle resemblance to Snarf.,
"How wude. SNARF!"
Someone had to say it.
I wouldn't be surprised if George Lucas used Snarf as the inspiration for Jar Jar.
@@planescaped He was a comic book nerd and isn't terribly subtle, so that tracks.
What's ironic about the removal of the horniness from the artwork is that such removal firmly *didn't* apply to the games. The barkeep in the first Dark Alliance, Yxunomei in Icewind Dale (and a lot of that game's character artwork) and some of the stuff from the Mystara arcade fighters exude borderline-absurd levels of horniness that the earlier TSR artists could've only hoped to achieve.
Honestly true! The video games got a pass for a lot of stuff the tabletop couldn't! Examples in pretty much every single game!
I forgot this was about a video game until 22:50
Too busy staring at the artwork? 😲
@@tomalexander4327 that and the fact it brought up some interesting facts i didn't know.
That 20+ minute lecture on pulp fantasy art was enthralling and I forgot it was supposed to be about a video game. I was surprised when I was suddenly watching a video about Snarf.
i´d love a full on video by william like that. his voice is nice to lsiten to.
Why did nobody tell me the boys in Dark Sun were serving like that? Shit, now I have to check out the setting
RIGHT?! I like the first image William showed the most.
Oh yeah Brom liked to make the girls and boys very pretty. His Dark Sun work also goes hard into the growing 90s leather fetish subculture. Lots of masks, straps and whips. Fun stuff
Also, it’s too hot to be wearing clothes anyway 😂
To paraphrase Frazetta: "You can do sexy, but there needs to be class, or else it's just porn."
While you're taking a deep dive into the world of Larry Elmore, be sure to check out "Brothers Barbarian" on CZcams.
Larry was often talked into many questionable side-ventures by his chum (and fellow TSR Alumn) Ken Whitman. They filmed a series of weird live-action D&D videos at a now-defunct inn near his home in Kentucky where Larry had previously hosted oil-painting classes for nerds like myself. At about 6 minute mark in the video, you can see how Ken convinced Larry Elmore to run around wearing nothing but a bush.
"Brothers Barbarian" features several other TSR well-knowns like Margaret Weis, if you keep watching. Not sure if Ken Whitman had anything to do with the Snarfquest game, but it sure feels like it.
Also, Larry had done work on the Thundercats toy line, which also featured a "Snarf", and he also was very vocal about not approving of the look of Jar Jar Binks in 'The Phantom Menace' ...
*Looks around in fear of a parent entering the room* 🥵
True story. Back when I got into D&D I remember looking at a book in my living room when my mom walked in and saw a full page pinup illustrations of barely dressed wizard. I was around 15 at the time. She just said “Oh that why you boys like this game so much”.
Every time Brom was mentioned in this my brain was adding "... or as he's known in some circles, 'Goth Anime Legs Uncle'."
I'm not sure if Brom is bisexual, but he definitely seems to be repping them in his Dark Sun art.
I was about to throw hands about how great the Fisher price castle game was before you realised your error
"D&D mostly left the horny behind around the advent of 3rd edition."
And then brought it back with a vengeance in Baulder's Gate 3, the horniest RPG.
Edit: Figures two minutes after I post this and go back to the video, he basically says the same thing >.>
Safe Horny
The Witcher ......
the horny breaks through the wall like the kool aid man
There is some kind of webcomic-y about snarf and his party. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say DnD shenanigans make up so much of webcomic dna that they all kinda feel like snarf.
Absolutely! This Absolutely was ground 0 for a lot of styling in later D&D welcoming!
The Fisher Price castle game might not have evoked any core memories on its own, but I distinctly remember the toy itself and the super gaudy gold knights it had.
Gaudy gold knights unlocked it for me.
I 'member!
William, as a career artist, I thank you for your art tangent. You are an upright man with an upright and moral take. Bring back the hip dip, for all. FOR. ALL.
FRANK FRAZETTA! YES THE PINNACLE OF FANTASY! i mean sword and sorcery but still.
LOOK AT THE MUSCULARITY!
@@LuccaZa I got that refrence.
I'm kind of a middle of the road on the art of D&D. I do think the older artwork was better in an iconic sense, even if it had problems. D&D had not quite solidified as a "product" until the tail end of AD&D and 3rd ED, and so the artists were drawing on general principles of good artwork. You mentioned the older artwork having a "purpose", and while the boobs and thigh comment is spot on, a lot of the older artwork better understood the use of color in general. But it also most be said that a lot of fondness for old D&D art is selection bias, we remember the good stuff and have mostly forgotten the bad. Newer D&D art is hurdled by the brand's legacy and the fact it's now a product. There's still a lot of great new D&D art that uses good coloring and soft or hard edges to direct attention, but a lot of it's very muddled. Most of it isn't bad, it just isn't very striking. If you look at older artwork a lot of the lighting isn't natural, that isn't to say it doesn't look realistic, but the way characters are lit is intentional rather than realistic. Whereas newer art seems to me to strive for realistic lighting, forgetting that good art has never been about realism but implying realism, or an authentic feeling. It's the same with "dialogue" in fiction vs real conversations. Real conversations are boring to anyone not involved, good dialogue is not boring because it uses the trappings of real conversation to deliver characterization or plot without the viewer noticing. Many of the people who are called great dialogue writers write dialogue that sounds nothing like real conversation, but it *feels* real.
With that said, while I do love me some sexy art there was a disconnect with some of the older art that as I got older started to stand out to me. Once the horny wears off there's a lot of women characters depicted in older stuff who are meant to be warriors who definitely don't dress in a practical fashion even if they preferred less or no armor. People will immediately go to Conan the Barbarian and say "Well he doesn't wear a lot!" But what people forget is this is characteristic of Conan from the original pulp stories, his tendency to wear nothing but a loincloth or pants was partly an extension of his practical, no-nonsense character, and an expression of his physical prowess. He wore armor when he could, but he often didn't because he's a freakishly powerful fighter. So some bare thigh action on ladies I can overlook if there's some plausibly for it. Less plausible are the bodice breastplates. If the character in question were like a Anne Bonny, who supposedly liked to humiliate opponents by baring a breast and showing they were/had fought a woman, that could be plausible. But let's be frank most of the women depicted in overt sexual fashion in older art had little notion of such characterization in mind, and that's where the sticking point, for me anyway, comes in. Art should try to express the spirit of a character they're depicting, and in this fashion a lot (not all) of the older art does a disservice to the women. Sexuality expression (or lack thereof) is part of anyone's character, but it's rarely on display 24/7, and if you're depicting characters at ease and the women are displaying a sexual side that's at least permissible I think. But a lot of D&D's art is centered around characters of and in action, and when the sexualization is the propose rather than a by-product of such characters for no reason than sexualization that's where I take umbrage with it. To use your example of David by Michelangelo I'd argue the difference is David is standing, his natural form is meant to be marveled, not at an action. To give a plausible case where you could have an adventurer depicted in a way that still showcases their prowess and marvel at their physical form could be a warrior cleaning their armor. It could also be a refreshing in-between of the Chivalry image vs the Barbaric image, where the protective element of the armor clad warrior meets the physicality of a warrior.
"Conan from the original pulp stories, his tendency to wear nothing but a loincloth or pants was partly an extension of his practical, no-nonsense character, and an expression of his physical prowess."
I've been rereading Conan recently and if my collection is any indication he wears a mail shirt often.
IMHO I think William is partially wrong here about boiling it all down to horny. It's also about the idealization of the human form, both male and female, almost as demigods. Like Greek statues, only the form itself reflects the physical ideals of the 70s and 80s.
honestly while dnd art might be going downhill with them trying to get ai into the mix, look to other games like pathfinder or other ttrpgs because they are thriving in their art. Wayne Reynolds is one of the best fantasty artists working today.
Pathfinder art will have you looking for hours. Even the crpg art books have amazing work. Like micro dose and just flip pages type of vibe
I think the art in Tasha's book was pretty fine though and that was relatively recent.
@@yoursonisold8743One thing you'll notice is modern WotC art is very very covered up. And the posing is just...bland. Something about modern WotC 5e art feels a lot less interesting or vivid or something compared to earlier art or Paizo's Pathfinder art. Just a lot more dull.
I suspect it's bad direction from WotC because Kobold Press's Midgard has definjtely better art
No emotions means you lose something you can't put a name to but just isn't there. And eventually AI will make it so technically perfect that the uncanny valley will be triggered as living artists make mistakes even if you don't consciously notice them.
10:38 who remembers Frank Frazetta drawing Eowyn? She had her (thick) thighs and butt out. Which would imply all of Rohan rode to battle without pants of any kind, since she was hidden amongst them.
Great video btw
Frank absolutely is a no pants in general kind of guy. There's some pieces he did featuring the armies of Mordor where the Lidless Eye could see all the way to underhill if he were to gaze upon his own forces marching off to The Black Gate.
i have that black ink image saved on my pc. it is grand, but the witchking is menecing. but yes. Eowyn has some THICC THIGhS. kind amakes one wish that there was a black n white frank frazetta LOTR comic out there. imagine his Arwen or Galadriel.
Everyone always comments that Eowyn was meant to be disguised as a man, but anyone who's played D&D long enough knows that his artwork is exactly how that tends to play out. The player characters never want to take off their fancy magical armor or give up their weapon never mind how undercover they are going. Eowyn probably just cast off her baggy robe disguise that all adventurer's use if they don't have illusion magic.
As a huge fan of Frazetta's work, it doesn't take long to find art of some absolutely cheeked-up dudes. So in his eyes, they were definitely wearing that to battle.
As a huge fan of Frazetta's work, it doesn't take long to find art of some absolutely cheeked-up dudes. So in his eyes, they were definitely wearing that to battle.
Me having a shitty day.
William SRD - uploads a 50+ minute video.
Me in tears: Thank you
Corporate folks love taking advice or feedback the wrong way. Parents say, "hey can we tone down the sexy art a bit or make child friendly books, because my kids want to play and it's just a little jarring," and the corporations say, "oh hold my beer. We have no idea what 'sexy art' means, and making kids' versions of books makes too many SKUs so that'll impact profits, but we'll definitely tone things down!"
meanwhile, me making my nephew listen to WASP animal while i drive him to his friends
Nice to see some of the more obscure stuff on the channel. Here's to hoping we'll see others like Twilight: 2000 and the Skyrealms of Jorune along with the more well-known games.
About the horny artwork, talking as someone who grew up playing games on the Xbox 360 where the majority of female character was sexualized and who wrote about video games during Gamergate, I don't think that the problem with horny art/video game characters is that there horny as much as that it was the only style for female characters in a lot of cases and with things like Steller Blade out I think that its good to have both. Sometimes its fun to have something more horny based you know. Also as for dnd art, while I agree that the artwork in 3rd edition was dull for people, I love the monster artwork from the monster manuals of that time. The bored lich in the Libris Mortis book from 3.5, which is available as a pdf online by the way, is a favorite of mine.
I did think it was going to go that way to be honest, where everyone was sexualized. Now everything is forgetteable...
@@TheBayzent I mean when everything was sexualized to hell, it all blended in too. What we need is both not one or the either. Also horny artwork for everybody would be cool too.
This video alone has made me realize just how different the art is. I feel taken away to somewhere different with the old art. And the new art makes me feel more like. Informed if that makes sense
I didn't expect we'd go from Snarf to Michelangelo, much less that it would feel so natural. But goddamnit, I'm here for it.
Please continue to do videos like this. I love it when you do long form videos about d&d lore
the redbox dragon bugs me so much with its single horn. it needs a second one to have symetry. aaaaaaaaah Elmore
he was right to do what he did to you
Hey now, a single horn never slowed Venger down.
@@AllfatherBlack there should be two, one should be broken. it is a personal thing mind you, the art is still stunning
@@radwolf76 that is true, but Vengers single horn is not in the middle of his head. it is on the side
I wouldn't say "mid-90s" as much as I would "late 90s" and more accurately, 2000 and onward. 3rd ed D&D was such a radical change because they didn't want to retain the old D&D fanbase, they wanted the ever elusive "new audience". This didn't just apply to the game, but the art as well..
3e art still had a ton of skin...the 3e Nymph picture got me acting unwise, let alone the rack they put in half of Simbul's drawings.
Snarf Quest sounds like the name of a parody RPG inside of another game, like Fable.
I grew up on the horny art era, so I feel biased in agreeing with you that it felt more iconic and lasting just as you said. Current gen dnd art just feels kinda phoned in and sterile, and i think the gradual slide into AI art is gonna make that worse. I don't think that's even a WotC issue though, because plenty of MtG art is absolutely stunning (and can be both horny and not horny). Regardless, Planescape was peak DnD art for me, the artist for that setting nailed down a perfect mix of horny, menacing, whimsical, and ethereal.
That's a great way of putting it. Sterile. Modern 5e D&D art from WotC feels very sterile and generic.
The badly animated Draconians in the Dragonlance animated movie was an attempt to incorporate at the time a Neverwinter Nights PC mod that featured it- unfortunately it was ill conceived and looked horrible
i watched that movie. Bless Keither sutherland for doing research and trying to pronounce the spells correctly.
I made the mistake of borrowing that from the library many years ago and couldn't get through it. Nearly everything about it was off-putting, some in ways I'm pretty sure were directly attributable to the source material (Why did they have Tasselhoff hitting on a small child?!).
One of my biggest gripes that I think you sort of mention but not enough to quell me: every single dnd channel on here you can pick a random video and find several unrelated magic card arts in the background. I know that mtg has thousands of unique artworks sometimes very broadly depicting a dragon or something but then why does dungeon daddy always pick niv mizzet? A specific character.
If you had told me this video would make me appreciate old horny fantasy art, I'd have called you a liar, but here we are.
Anyway I'm of a few minds about the changing art styles. On the one hand, I do appreciate the dynamic posing of a lot of older art, the use of color, and the traditional medium. On the other, they can be really in your face with the bottom-of-the-barrel fanservice and it's hard to look past that. On *another* hand, I agree that a lot of the more recent art tends to feel technically competent, serviceable, but also dull and nondescript.
I was actually surprised to hear you praise Reynolds' art, because for some time now I've found his character art some of the most offputting among the big names. A lot of people have noted how cluttered his character designs tend to be, but more than that, there's something about the people themselves. I find myself looking at characters like Seoni and Amiri and thinking, I *like* this design in theory, I should find it attractive, but something about the way it's put to canvas makes the characters look... I don't know, waxy? Stiff? Like they exist to strike this one pose but will fall apart as soon as they try to move.
At any rate, thank you for taking a risk again with the delve into fantasy art history! It reminded me a lot of watching the Eye of the Beholder documentary a few years back. Good times. Looking forward to the next one as always!
it boggles the mind how someone can claim to be into tabletop culture (especially d&d) and not also respect the heck out of sword and sorcery, certain sexist depictions of women in the art be darned. I'll always appreciate d&d for being the gateway to me discovering I love the genre and discovering amazing female protagonists like Jirel of Jory, Jenny Waynest or Sun Wolf
A previous boss of mine at work was obsessed with SnarfQuest. I ended up getting him both a signed copy of the volume of collected comics and a set of miniatures that Ral Partha had made.
This video was surprisingly wonderful. I'm really glad you found a reason to talk about that art, it was great; and the first arc of Snarfquest was surprisingly lovely to hear about. I would definitely be more than happy for a video from you without a videogame angle, especially one on Mage. You do excellent stuff and I'm here for it. Looking forward to whatever comes next!
While in the art section I completely forgot this video was about a Snarf Quest game. Great job! I have never cared about art history before in my life. You are a natural storyteller and I think just about any topic you cover will be a great video.
I actually really like the 3.5E art. What I liked is that it sold me on the idea that books like the Player's Handbooks were less like rulebooks and more like Journals someone had filled with their own notes and annotations and yes, their own art. Like some Bard writing done a chronicle of this world. It was more immersive than... say... 5E having these honestly well drawn images, but which feel like illustrations put into a professional made book, not someone's artistic rendition of something they witnessed in their travels.
I got so sucked into your analysis on art that I forgot this was supposed to be a video on the Snarf Quest game until you reminded me halfway through!
I haven't watched any of your other videos yet, but so far I appreciate your fair take on the topic of historical D&D art, and I absolutely agree with you. Having grown up playing D&D during the satanic panic of the 80's, my religious aunt freaked out when she learned I liked the game and recruited her father (my grandfather) to investigate. He asked about my hobbies and I ran him through the Red Box intro adventure. As an artist himself, who was also a pilot in WWII and drew a lot of his art in the style of the pin-up girls who would appear on bombers, he instantly fell in love with Larry Elmore's art. He only half paid attention to the adventure itself, instead gushing over the art on every page - although he was definitely sad that he couldn't save the beautiful cleric. After that session he told my aunt to back off and leave my hobby alone. Over the years, we didn't see eye to eye on everything, but that afternoon will always be a positive memory with him, and the art of D&D at the time was 100% responsible for that.
So, um, I guess I'm happy that you weren't just doing a strict video game coverage video!
All fun and games until snarf pulls out a gun
You say pathfinder is still horny baiting but really by late 1st edition and definitely into second edition they toned it down too. Just look at the redesigns of the iconics and you'll see, but it extends to the rest of the art too.
Fun fact, Ral Partha Miniatures produced a line of tabletop miniatures for Snarf Quest ( sculpted by Jim Johnson). Dark Horse ( yes the comic company also produced miniatures) produced a blister pack of unique metal models for Snarf Quest as well.
The 80s horny artwork is hilariously camp nowadays.
I don't think it's camp. I honestly think it's more interest and evocative than the modern D&D 5e stuff we see today. The technique is just plain better.
@@warellis if you don't think it's camp then I have some Tom of Finland art to sell you. 😁
It’s not camp, it’s just quality. Digital stuff sucks
@@tomalexander4327His stuff is good from what I recall. Like he draws his men really well honestly.
@@bleaaarghhWhile that's sort of true, WotC makes it worse I recall. Like you can hsve good digital art. I've seen good art from Midgard & Pathfinder. But when those artist were used by modern 5e WotC, the quality went down. That's what makes me suspect WotC is also partially behind the issues of modern low art quality in 5e.
This whole comic is basically that one joke from Futurama.
"Who needs courage when you have a gun!"
Also I'd love more videos where you talk about Tabletop history and your own thoughts on it without having to connect it to a video game. Hearing you talk about this weird comic was way more entertaining than if you just recapped the video game and left it at that.
Snarfquest inspired my love of reading as a kid and my work as an RPG illustrator today.
Amazing video, I really liked the coverage about the art in D&D (I would not mind more videos about that, in fact I would love that). There is an often overlooked aspect in the old art: the way which they represent the backgrounds or scenes (and how the light and colors worked on them), because while often, you got your standard background, forest, castles, ect... with often no major twists, they still very evocative and unique despite that, often more that more wild backgrounds/scenes in recent fantasy art.
I love your videos, man! I feel like there's not nearly enough content exploring the weird historical aspects of our hobby, and also your work is just super clean and professional. I always drop everything I'm doing to watch a new upload.
What an excellent video! Thank you for putting names to the evocative classic art that I remember from older D&D.
19:00 That cover was NOT for Dark Sun, but a BECMI adventure that predates it by at least a year. Arena of Thyatis DDA1 it was an underrated module IMO.
I think the draw of the channel is you and your way of covering things, not specifically covering videogames. Anyone can do that if they try (well, almost anyone), doing it with the entertainment value and information level you bring to things is harder to pull off.
Branch out, see how your numbers do. I'm sure they'll still be damn good.
The rabbit hole must never end. you must now review Fisher-Price Castle too!
As an artist, I do think the new covers are often on par if not better than the old work. They feature atmospheric lighting and retain a high degree of precision often, with rich or appropriate amounts of painterly detail sometimes, like in fine art.
They can just hire someone very skilled and give them the time required for cover art if they want. It's a question of time. The interiors being fully illustrated is a great incentive as it doubles as an art book and adds a lot of value.
Some of the older art was very characteristic of the original artists. The new work is not trying to emulate their look all the time, and that's a good thing.
Greg Hildebrandt and Frazetta are great, but so are guys like James Gurney, Chris Wahl and people like Cynthia Sheppard.
They exceed the previous artists by also integrating more fine art ideas and training into their paintings.
I'd say they're both very good. It's not a competition.
Love hearing you're take on horniness in dnd art, my friend and I had come to the same conclusion a couple weeks ago, rlly nice hearing that perspective articulated :)
My bf and I both love watching your videos, and I would be totally on board to see you do table top rpg videos outside of video games!
I’d absolutely love more videos that are just general weird d&d and TTRPG history, I just love your style of videos
Honestly, Your talks about the history of dnd and its various settings (and other systems too) is my favourite part of your videos, so it’s great to see ones which have a lot of it or are entirely focused on that
It's awesome how you always have a czepeku sponsorship.
D&D art definitely took a dive starting with 3.5. It's exactly like he says, it lost its ability to inspire and spark your imagination. The old line drawings were just enough to get the juices flowing and let you fill in the gaps, and the covers were amazing. I think that's a huge part of why I still prefer to play AD&D.
The first halves of your videos consistently blow me away. Come for a random video game from years ago, stay for the 20-minute video essay on the evolution of fantasy art.
You also forgot to mention Elmore's quote when the drew the picture, "I thought if the guy was as vague as possible anyone could insert themselves into the character.". Now see if you can spot the magic word. Sometimes women have power fantasies and sometimes that power fantasy is being a mighty *male* warrior. Too bad the regressives can't accept that. I mean I know loads of guys who play female characters but I guess that's just not allowed according to WOTC.
I came in expecting a video about a weird, bad, comedic D&D game, and I ended up getting an interesting lecture on the history of TTRPG artwork and a (mostly) tasteful discussion on the sexualization of women in said artwork.
I love this website.
Personnaly, I wouldn't mind at all some videos on IP without videogames. The parts where you explain the thetabletop game in details is as interesting or even more than the videogame review part. You have my blessing!
I think the "horny" era as a concept is really saying everything before 1998 or so. Because nearly all types of art depicting what we would now call fantasy elements, including early sci-fi really, often if not primarily included alluring scantily clad males and females. That has been the style since circa 500 BC in Greece. Suggesting it was more so than Greek or Roman art is a bit of a stretch. I think we have decided that sex as a part of most rpg marketing is fine in terms of choosing your demographic and the comfort level with sexuality in fantasy the modern audience might be. Let's be clear though outside of largely neutered writings of Tolkien or Lewis most fantasy writing had some layer of overt or undertones of sexuality. Whether it was Lord Dunsany or Clark Ashston Smith they included layers of the erotic. Pulp fiction was far more lurid in it's eroticism and it was a prime mover in terms of influence on the creation of D&D. I think Americans are just scandalized by the thought of sex in any hobby or art. We want to put sex in this box and leave it out of everything else. That's not how art works...
One other thing... You described Tolkien's and Tolkien inspired art as "grounded". WHAT?!?!? In terms of the visual art you are mad. Some of the art both on and licensed by Tolkiens works through the 60s, 70s and 80s are utter acid dripping insanity. You are trying to conflate the works of a handful of artists working the last 30 years and papering over the psychedelia infused art work that graced Tolkien's work for the other 30 years of it's existence.
Great job William! This gave me serious Art History class vibes. This felt well researched and was very engaging. Thank you!
For me the various forms of the modern art tends to be more my jam most of the time, both the stuff more like D&D4-5e and Pathfinder. The styles just fit my preferences more as well as the kind of fantasy that speaks to me, it's telling that I'm FAR more of a fan of the Tolkien painterly style then pulp when I think about it. That said there are some old art, and even just some bits and pieces of some older works, that I do really like. The stuff that tends to be more striking, unusual, or "out there," that spark the imagination, those are the bits of the old art that catch my eye. If I want titillation then that's just a quick Google search away for multiple sources, however it's far harder, but more rewarding, to find and digest stuff that gets the wheels in my head working and invokes feelings and wonder.
This is the best video William SRD has made, I am so excited about this. More talking about pulp art (and less about Snarf!)
Posting for increased engagement. Also I really enjoyed this and miss a lot of these old comics.
William, cover what you feel like covering, I'm a grognard but being Spanish means there is a treasure trove of D&D content that never made the jump here and I'm always happy to learn about.
Quite the history of dnd art throughout the years... Really Fun to hear how it evolved and changed, and snarf is really a look into something that we used to see in more magazines of the yesteryears... Great video as always, love your content!
Thanks WIlliam. Now i'm falling down an ever spiralling internet hole looking at classic pulpy D&D art!
Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into this video! It was very good and enjoyed it!
I came across your videos few weeks ago and binged almost everything. I just got into dnd and it's super interesting to hear about the countless dnd games that are out there.
You have just unlocked a sealed away memory, I read this comic as a kid and completely forgot about it.
Oh hello, a video that is directly targeted at me! Just in case you don't want to read the rest of this, I'll say thank you up front for making this; I love SnarfQuest (the comic) and I'm glad to see it get some more attention online.
In regards to the art, in reading Elmore's first autobiography/art book he's very upfront about how much he loves women, but even more upfront about how much he loves drawing women. You can really see it in his art, and even though the horny can be a bit much at times you have to appreciate just how skilled he is at turning his models into enduring fantasy art.
Neat fact about the halfling thief at 18:03 - this was supposed to be a piece with a halfling male and a human female for Dragon magazine, but the editor told him to drop the male and make the woman the halfling. So he had to change the background from outside to inside in order to place objects to give her the right sense of scale.
Moving on, I was given the SnarfQuest collection as an older kid, by some well-meaning relative who didn't think too hard about just how much cheesecake is in Elmore's art (and one of the bonus pages is just pure cheesecake). I knew nothing of D&D (though I did enjoy fantasy) but I was absolutely the target demographic for these stories and just ate them up.
Fast-forward to adulthood, and as an adult with disposable income and no sense of restraint, I was able to toss my money behind a number of Elmore projects from his art collections, to reprinting SnarfQuest, the new Snarfquest graphic novel, and yes even to creating the mediocre game that you've had to experience.
I'm actually proud to have gotten to help fund the books at least; Snarfquest deserved a reprint, and the Elmore art books are amazing treasures that I wish they'd keep in print and sell again to the general public. Plus it means I got some fantastic mementos from Elmore that I've tucked away in my dragon hoard for future generations.
Just for reference, the original Snarfquest collection ends on the page where Snarf is declared king, and then follows with a couple of single-page full-color illustrations/pinups and a full-color short story about Snarf and Telerie fighting a werewolf with the rock star characters from the 2nd arc. As you said it makes a very good read, and I'm sure it worked well in getting more kids into D&D (the back of the book also includes character stats for D&D and AD&D so you can have them in your campaign hint hint).
The PDF you're using is from a later edition that includes the continuation from Dragon, and you're right the 2nd arc pretty lackluster for the most part. Kind of like a D&D campaign that continued into higher level content when you're just not ready to let go of your characters, so I guess it's accurate there. This is not a knock on you for using it; it's the only digital version I could find as well when I tried to share the series with my friend who is too far away to borrow my physical copies.
"The Mystical Plains of Sashaar" combines the Snarfquest stuff from when when Elmore tried to continue the series as a webcomic with new pages to finish up the story. It's frankly pretty bad; Elmore tags along for a lot of it as a self-insert and frequently pisses off Snarf by being too interested in Telerie.
As for the game, I'm actually supposed to have an NPC in there somewhere, but frankly I've never played it enough to know and I strongly suspect they never got around to putting me in there (bullet dodged). I tried the beta, found it very rough, and completely forgot about it until this video.
Excellent video, would love more like it.
@WilliamSRD longtime lurk watcher. Awesome video, mostly wanted to say holy cow! I never imagined I would be reminded of that ancient King Arthur, Fisher Price game. Took me wayyy back to that honestly solid game. Keep up the good work and keep pulling out the obscure stuff hah!
29:04 - what’s DangerMouse doing in a D&D comic?
😜
oh my god, you are right. also Dangermouse would make for a great dnd character template
Legitimately your best video.
I’m glad I watched this video as an artist. I love the old art style and never knew what it was called. Growing up I only saw certain pictures of the style and always wanted to learn more about it. It’s so much more interesting than most of the art I normally see. Now I can research the style.
great video!
I'm definitely down for more niche tabletop things.
So, when's the video about the fisher price game coming? Or am i the only one hoping for that?
... I am beginning to wonder that myself
@WilliamSRD i too am waiting
I really liked the artwork deep-dive. I'm certainly interested in your coverage on non-video game TT material.
I love all WilliamSRD videos
20:15 I can recognize Stiepan Sejic anywhere. He's the best artist I know for drawing sexy women as female power fantasies.
I actually adore the lore parts of your videos often times more then the video game segments. I would 100% be up for videos that where all lore without a game attached.
Growing up my father had a pile of issues of Dragon, I remember reading a lot of SnarfQuest... I also remember my mother getting annoyed that I was walking around reading magazines with covers featuring "That DnD art"
OMG I have been trying to remember the name of runelords for several years now. As soon as I saw the bottom of that cover I recognized it and got so excited!
Yooooooooo, Fischer Price castle game mention! Love that game as a little kid I played it so often on our old computer.