Many people don't consider that in order to run a "natural" form with zero drop shoes you have to have the strength for it. And not just foot strength but strength (and mobility for that matter) all the way up the kinetic chain.
Was a fan of Altra for years when I first found the brand, however when they started to change to the different foot shapes and sold the company things have never been the same. My son introduced me to Topo and I have never looked back.
I tried topo not long ago thinking omg maybe these will be it after altra updated the olympus model from the 4s to the 5s which have that gigantic pull tab on the back and thinner heel padding anyway I tried 2 separate TOPO models and they did not work for me but it was tricky though bc at 1st I thought omg these are perfect they were very comfy & the color was perfect but after wearing them for awhile they started to cause hip & knee pain. Sooo...I have a pair of lone peak 7s OTw ordered yesterday. Fingers crossed cuz I've already tried near every other model and no go& thats saying alot being I've been wearing nothing but altra for like 5-6 yrs now& I have an old foot injury (crushed heel bone metal in my heel/ankle) so altra had been the only shoe I could wear period!
I’m one of those cultists, but Really wish Altra would go back to the Quantic midsole they used to have with the Torin 4 & 4.5 Plush. They were the most comfortable running shoes for me so far.
The last Torin that I wore was also 4.5 Plush. It blows my mind that this is still the thing that folks reminisce positively on. Maybe they can make a big come back with advanced midsole material similar to 2023 Hoka, but there isn’t much goodness after VF Corp took over. This year seems to be done for them.
The problem with the quantic foam is that it was far from being as resilient in time as the EGO foams are. If you used the superior 4-5 which were very thin, it was much more noticable that the foam had collapsed after a few hundred km
All I know is my two pairs had well over 500 miles each before I retired them, and they were just as comfortable (if not more so) at the end than early on. The outer sole is why I had to retire them. Would pay good money for another pair in my size.
I ran my first marathon in the Altra Escalante. They have had hits and misses over the years but overall I still enjoy their shoes. I think it’s super smart of them to have a transition shoe like this, to get the folks who fear the 0 drop.
They're all foot shaped - just different widths. Every reviewer seems to struggle with this, everyone seems to conflate 'foot shaped' with 'wide' - not so. The shape is all about not putting the 'point' in the centre, Altra (and Topo / Vivo) put it where a healthy big toe should be - over to the side!
🎸🙋♀️Yes thank you. Don’t know why they don’t understand. LOL Before Altras were created, I wondered why we had to cram our toes into a tiny pointy space.
🎸🙋♀️I know. I’m upset. I thought of all the nonsense in this world, I could at least trust Altra! Now I’ll have to be careful to not get the model with the drop!
Ive been running in Altras for about 4 years and Im glad theyre adding drops. Im sure theyll keep it to 4-5mm in the future. I tried the topo cyclone 2 out and its my current favorite shoe. I dont want to always run in zero drop but i like what it does for my body and the way i run. I see a lot of issues in the achillis and hamstring when i run in 8mm drop shoes often
@@cedric_v there's a little bit of a built in arch in the shoe and if I'm not mistaken I think all topos have a little arch support in their shoes. I don't usually like anything in the arch area but these are very comfy. That little bit of the arch might be able to help pronation for you. It's not intrusive, it's not like a medial post or anything and the pebax is soft so the arch doesn't really push up into your foot.
@@Dan_SouthYeah thanks! Im not a big overpronator, most of the time when im tired or dont warch my posture. Been running in Altra paradigm for the last months but always keen to try out other foot shaped shoes. Can you compare them to these altras? Thanks for the info man
@@cedric_v I can't really compare them to the paradigm I haven't tried those out. I have the torin 7s and have run in the torin 5 and 6s. Cyclone has way less stack height than those but the pebax gives much more energy return and response than those ego max models. I've been using the cyclone as my workhorse trainer. I actually stopped running in my torins since I've gotten these because the torins just feel sluggish now
@@cedric_v pebax, if you've never run in it, can be pretty unstable. I tried higher stack shoes with pebax and I don't get the wobbly ankles in the cyclone like I felt in the nike invincible and saucony endorphin speed.
I was a Big Fan !!! Started with the superior 2.5... and i stop with the lone Peak 4 and the Olympus 4..... they sold the company and the things change too much for me.... So now they look good but not for me anymore.✌️
I don’t wear anything but Altra. I love some models more than others of course. Now I’m very disappointed they’re making a model that is NOT zero drop.
I own a pair of- took a little bit to get used to but I enjoy it! Got about 100 miles on em and they’re holding up strong - the heel is nice - not a big fan of the laces. But overall it’s a solid shoe. Using it for my marathon training.
they have always needed a transition shoe, finally plus a foot shaped relief shoe, (ie recovery shoe. long distance easy etc etc) im down for this, at finally an option for people who wants a foot-shaped Hoka shoe FINALLY hahaha, ive always wanted one lol
updated on this.......I'm going to go off on a rant on this shoe (pre-requisite warning)... I get Altra has different last different foot shapes etc, but it's just disappointing that I have better luck shoving my foot in an 4E Asics Nimbus 25 in the same size and having a much comfortable time in that than being comfortable both in the width of the midfoot of the shoes and also the width of the toebox (or should i say its widest point where my big toe would sit). And i get it tappers off in the nimbus to the front end of the shoe, but having a thumbs length space mitigate that for me. Anyway the volume of this shoe in the toe box isnt a lot and im pretty sure (or least it feels like it) the widest bit of the toes box is pretty much the same as my 4e Nimbus 25, i get there is a small drop (reason why i bought the shoe, for the drop and the 'foot shape', but alas I am majorily disappointed in this shoes, and I have also tried the VIA Olympus models (both of them), again, great this time the width is good, and the 0.5mm drop (plus the rocker) is what I wanted but the working volume of the toebox is not as much as again as a point of comparison the 4E Nimbus 25, anyway rant over sorry, really disappointed in both shoes, cant speak enough praise for the Asics Nimbus 25
I think the shape thing is hard to understand if you don't NEED it. I have pretty narrow feet, but they're very 'foot shaped'. So most normal shoes push my big toe over - some brands are extra 'middle pointy'! - Adidas actually hurt my toe! So for me, an Altra feels great even if the foam isn't the best, love the Torin for instance. If they could get better foams, I'd wear nothing else... maybe.
I feel this so much. I steered away from Altra until about 3 months ago. Thought my feet were narrow and while I mostly ran in 4-6mm drop, the 0mm drop scared me. Then I got my Olympus 5's and they completed changed the game for me. I've ran a 50 mile and 100 mile ultra marathon in them and have about 300 total miles on them. I now cannot put my foot in any other shoe without it feeling completely cramped and my body seems to love the 0 drop....For this shoe, I'll definitely try it out. For some reason I really like the generic EVA midsole (speedgoat and olympus). I wanted to love the Clifton 9 but blistered in it, so this could be it for me on the roads.
@@myersa31 the shape vs width thing is really interesting, but possibly hard to communicate. Looking at some recent Inov8 shoes, they’re 4 or 5 on their width scale (1-5) but they’re also quite footshaped - the insoles were actually a similar shape to some Altras! But Inov8 don’t want to talk about shape, probably gets confusing.
You might try Topo, they are narrow in the heel and midfoot but have the wide toe box. They fit my foot well except for their arches. They also don't have the best foams.
Ultimately I think this is a miss by Altra. It may bring in a few new customers, but really if someone is looking for more drop, at that price point, there are better places to go. Altra is now treading in different waters (at least with this shoe) where there is just better competition out there. If they wanted to leave the zero drop market with a shoe, they would have probably needed a much better midsole... but then again I'd also want that on their zero drop shoes. Outside of that, It looks great and I'm still a huge fan of Altra and foot shape toe boxes.
I think it’s ultimately the foot shape that they’re banking on being their selling point. For what it’s worth, I agree. I like the way altras fit but I can’t always do a 0 drop
Dude.... They are not willing at all to, attack the "drop market" did you even listen ? They just want to make a shoe that offers a softer transition for people who want to QUIT THE DROP. It is the complete opposite lol
You’re not supposed to go from high foot drop to a 0, it’s good to go to a mid/low foot drop first before 0 so this is smart on their part to offer people a shoe to help work their way into 0 drops.
This is probably why co-founder Golden Harper has moved on from Altra and is now creating new products like the FloorRun Harness and Bridge Soles. This is sort of ironic because Golden developed the Bridge Sole to transistion to zero drop easier by making Altras feel more like a 4mm drop. He coined the term " zero drop" by modifying the midsoles of shoes sold at his father's running store using his home toaster oven. He looked at it as a way of preventing injures since so many people coming in the store were complaining that a lot of the shoes sold at the time were hurting them.
well duh. hoka was 1-2 yrs older than altra and got distributed a lot more faster and got famous much longer gap ahead for obvious obvious reasons that at least partly probably foundationally never changed
and hoka's biggest problem is exactly the j frame and heel cuck i'm sorry heel cup , and simping mtb(they love to print round-earth-ly tshirts as well, and pump tracks and dj and parking is just as toxic if not more so than "high stack high drop" ethos ) whilst never could possibly enable any runner to "roll" like an actual mountainbike(r)
Brian Beckstead, co-founder of the Altra Running brand coined the term. "When Altra coined the term 'zero drop' it was never about minimalism, it was about getting your foot into natural and stable positions…SOOO that’s out the window I guess 🤷♂️
🎸🙋♀️THANK YOU! I won’t wear anything but Altra & get all my friends & family to wear them. Now I’ll have to apologize. Lol Also now I must be careful to not order a model with drop! I’m upset.
The only way this would get me is a midsole selling point. 4 mm drop shoes don't bother me, but with a blasé midsole there's no reason for me to buy this. Add on the fact that it's Altra selling a 4 mm drop shoe, and it bothers me on a principle level
Thanks for the info. 🙏 They are still going to make zero drop shoes, correct? Then don’t buy this one if you want zero drop. I think it’s good for Altra to expand. Maybe it will make them more competitive with Topo. I don’t like that they didn’t go with a better foam but it sounds competitive with the Clifton where durability is an issue.
Awesome, now we don't have to ask Altra 😂 Also, totally get that but super weird that Altra would be the only one doing it, pretty much nobody else gives separate stack heights in their specs
@@Believeintherun I'm assuming it's because men's size 9 in the standard of measurement for World Athletics. Also, if it's unisex sizing (like in many of the racers) this is a non-issue since there aren't separate women's sizes.
As a recent converted ALTRA Acolyte & lover of zero drop shoes, I have to ask why the need for such shoe like the FWD, when the market is way ahead of the game in that territory? I totally agree with Robbie on how his red-light rate, because that so called "breakthrough" by ALTRA is basically the same thing as the latest HOKA Clifton, which is a "nothing burger shoe."
🎸🙋♀️I’m an Altra loyalist; won’t wear anything else. This is unsettling to see Altra go backwards to “compete” with shoes that aren’t made for the human foot.
It’s pretty risky to tie down the whole brand to a particular technology or design philosophy. On did away with speedboard in their new shoes, Salomon shoes are finally softer. Altra’s gotta get with the times - still no supercritical, or TPU midsole. I’ve worn many Altra shoes before, but I was in it for their foot shape, not zero drop. Their shoes always rode bit slow. Now that there’s Topo Cyclone 2, I don’t have a reason to buy another pair of Altra.
@@Believeintherun thank you that’s a great endorsement for the model that I totally forgot about, because it was priced at $190 when you reviewed it. Now that Vanish T is priced at $170, same as Speed 3, would you guys consider it a legit contender in the versatile companion shoes category?
Interesting. As a recovering Altra fanatic (switched almost exclusively to Topo now), I don't really understand this shoe. Maybe it's meant for people to get introduced to Altra, maybe even as a walking shoe?
🎸🙋♀️You could always trust Altra! Now they’ve lowered their standards by raising their heels LOL I’m an Altra loyalist; won’t wear anything else. I must be careful when I order to not get stuck with a drop model. I have all my friends & family wearing Altra; I’ll have to warn them too.
As an absolute Altra fanboy, I'm fine with it. I won't buy; it but if it gets ppl to the brand then I'm good. And I am sold on the wide toe box and zero drop philosophically.
🎸🙋♀️Yes agreed. I won’t wear anything but Altra. I’ll just make sure I don’t get stuck with a model with drop. I also thought that this new drop model might bring people to Altra. But I’ll never understand why people want to wear a heel. Lol It’s not natural.
I’ve been with Altra since the first iteration of the Torin. I can honestly say they changed my life. I had severe plantar fasciitis and it was very painful for me to walk in regular shoes. I put those on and never looked back. The original Escalante were another favorite which I bought a bunch of pairs of them about 5 years ago along with a few others like the one v3 which I’m walking in right now as well as lone peaks. Sadly my Escalantes have now all been retired except for two new pairs of Escalante racers. Once these are gone I’m afraid I may have to check out Topo. Zero drop is where it’s at boys.
I do still have a pair of Torin plush but those are a totally different shoe from the original Torin. I wish they would rerelease the original with new colors.
the escalante racer is one of my favorite shoes of all time. I'm in to try this shoe, but if altra wants to play with the big boys, they are going to have to fix their durability issues. That's the elephant in the room. I know not foot shaped, but there are a decent amount of 4-5 mm drop shoes on the market (kinvara comes to mind) that run circles as far as durability is concerned around altra. I think the move away from ego and using eva could be the best thing about this shoe. Ego is such a bummer. Oddly enough, calling an altra shoe "boring" and "not exciting" could be the best thing for altra.
mehh I think your wrong here. I think the EGO regardless of the durability is one of the best features of the shoe aside from the wide toe box. Adding EVA to the Altra is like putting all season Continentials on your Porsche GT3. #EpicFail
@@jakenissa8641 agree to disagree. In all of my experience with ego foam, it falls flat and dies at like 50 miles in. One pair, it happened in 30 or so miles. It's not a "high performance" foam to begin with, but it becomes like running in sand. It's like right when you start to get excited about a shoe that feels good. That's just my experience. I've run in plenty of EVA shoes that just go and go and go. Nothing special and boring in the best way. That's what I want in a daily shoe to put miles in. So yeah, if a super sticky set of tires lasts 10 miles on my gt3, I'll take the all season continental's for getting around town, with the occasional "spirited" trip through the twistys.
I've wanted to try Altras, but avoided the zero drop for fear of an Achilles or calf injury. Adding a transition shoe with a drop makes sense. From the side, the sole looks like a leaf. 🍃 It's cute.
I really enjoy watching your videos so keep them coming. But a couple of things I wonder if you could consider incorporating. (1) The shoe operating window and the (2) optimal running style. (1) The first is based on my experience with the Endorphin Speed 3. I just don't get the hype....or do I?? I love the cushion when standing and walking but at slow speed running, I find it clunky and flat. However, when picking up the pace such as track intervals, I can really feel the bounce. So, it posed the question for me about an operating window of shoes. Yes, this is subjective and personal but isn't most of your remarks about a shoe? I reckon it will help guide runners towards a shoe that meets their needs. (2) The second relates to the relationship/impact of the rocker and forefoot cushioning to running styles. The origin of this question refers to Adidas where (another) reviewer felt they didn't suit heal strikers because the forefoot cushion and rocker position/design required the heal striker to overcome and get over the top of the forefoot making it inefficient (maybe that is fixed with the Evo rocker change??). Anyway my point being it will be great to get some guidance on whether some shoes suit certain styles over others. Thanks for reading (if you got this far!)
I think we try to include these things when possible, but as you said, it's all very subjective, which is why it's hard to ever give a shoe a truly bad review. Every shoe will work for a certain type of person out there. We try and tell everyone to find a reviewer that most fits your running style and go with that. Thanks for watching!
Think the reference is that the EVA in the Clifton (imho) feels reasonably lively. That’s obvs specific to the foot strike and weight of the runner. Dead EVA can just be that
It sounds reasonable to compare to the Clifton. For a low drop, moderate stack, rockered shoe, I would probably lean toward the Noosa Tri over this one. For a non-plated rockered shoe, the foam needs to be a little firm to maintain that shape and I am wondering if the Ego Max foam is too soft to do that. I think the shoe has potential but I'll pass on this iteration.
I need to have some low drop, but not necessary 0 foot drop. I have bad back, and the higher drop kills me. The problem with Altra is that the frame is too thin. My feet keep bearing down on the frame either on teh inside of my foot or the outer. Just come on, make a broad base shoe!
Purchased this shoe last week and it’s not plush, doesn’t feel great. It feels like it’s cheaply made. I loved the 2.5 & 3 Torin and ran all my 13.5 in the Torin but can’t find any of the newer Torin with the same comfort.
I've tried these shoes on 2 runs, and I'm been pretty loyal to this brand for 2 years. I like the idea of the EVA foam. It's lighter, and refreshing for Altra. It finally pulls away from the TPU EgoMax foam they made bland. But the drop: it just didn't make sense. I didn't mind the heightened drop, but it definitely felt like betrayal when this shoe dropped. If they can keep the lightness and the EVA in the shoe but stay on zero drop, I think Altra will have something that gets to compete with some brands while still maintaining that uniqueness Altra still has.
I think the olympus model is the only Altra model with the vibram megagrip compound, which i think is the best for grip. I have 2 pairs of the Olympus 4 and i love them! Topo Athletic has a few models with megagrip and the Hoka Speedgoat model has it too.
So their quality has dropped the last two years with way lower durability and now going away from the things brought buyers in? This is making it so easy to fully switch to Saucony (which have low drop, high quality shoes in their line).
Regarding zero drop--Are there ANY professional runners who do longer distance races and training in zero drop? I always figured it's a niche scam, really.
Well, since Altra I’ve been going higher and higher in the stack height the new Torin I think is 30 mm plus a 6 mm insole is quite high. They removed the Escalante racer which was their only lower one left. and you really don’t get any of the benefits of a zero drop shoe with that height cushioning I think to get any of the benefits your shoe has to be 20 mm or less, N0 drop and no arch support. otherwise you’re really getting no benefits, but marketing. Now it seems to be a lot like the Kinvara with a better toe box
@@marlahart2060 - There isn't any draw for me; my feet are low volume and narrow, and even though the zero drop is fine, their shoes just don't fit me at all.
Altra seems to be focusing too much on expanding the brand to new buyers rather than catering to their loyal customers. They do however listen so if you have feedback to give do it 😘
We could all use more 4mm drop shoes, in my humble opinion, but the last thing I would do is buy 4mm drop shoes made by Altra. Why don't they focus on getting their quality and materials right for the zero drop shoes they've always made, instead of making something new that continues their shit-for-quality ethos?
So, these days, I am not too impressed by athletes who perform better than those of the past when the technology in their respective fields has changed, such as lighter bikes, shoes, tennis racquets, etc. and wind tunnel training, advanced nutrition, and so on. Thoughts, anyone? The fact that I or you or most people on earth cannot perform anywhere near their level is a given.
The most injuries I had was wearing 4 mm drop NB More v3 and no injuries with any shoes with drop higher then 6mm including all other NB. I'm afraid even imagine wearing zero droped shoes.
Vanity Fair. The takeover had to result in this, sooner or later. VF want to sell more and what sells well? Nice-looking, narrow shoes with elevated heels and triangular toeboxes. RIP Altra...
I would reverse this and say the small minority of runners who do best in zero drop shoes should have more options besides a couple of companies which don’t have critical foam midsoles. I know an multi-time OTQ runner who had injuries that have been all corrected by running in zero drop. He’s at a disadvantage only having these companies to choose from.
As a recently converted Altra 0 drop tragic, they (Altra) are starting to annoy me. Can't help themselves; they have to join the flock. Their random fit is also getting annoying; one model is perfect, another is a mile out
Many people don't consider that in order to run a "natural" form with zero drop shoes you have to have the strength for it. And not just foot strength but strength (and mobility for that matter) all the way up the kinetic chain.
Agree. Although running in cushioned shoes that have drop is not helping with that.
Was a fan of Altra for years when I first found the brand, however when they started to change to the different foot shapes and sold the company things have never been the same. My son introduced me to Topo and I have never looked back.
I just switched to TOPO too. Got the TOPO Pursuit for my trail run (it has VIBRAM SOLE!!) and TOPO Specter for my road running. TOPO shoes are SOLID!
Drama queen
They ALWAYS used different footshapes since the very beginning ... nothing changed... 😂
i love my topos!!
I tried topo not long ago thinking omg maybe these will be it after altra updated the olympus model from the 4s to the 5s which have that gigantic pull tab on the back and thinner heel padding anyway I tried 2 separate TOPO models and they did not work for me but it was tricky though bc at 1st I thought omg these are perfect they were very comfy & the color was perfect but after wearing them for awhile they started to cause hip & knee pain. Sooo...I have a pair of lone peak 7s OTw ordered yesterday. Fingers crossed cuz I've already tried near every other model and no go& thats saying alot being I've been wearing nothing but altra for like 5-6 yrs now& I have an old foot injury (crushed heel bone metal in my heel/ankle) so altra had been the only shoe I could wear period!
I’m one of those cultists, but Really wish Altra would go back to the Quantic midsole they used to have with the Torin 4 & 4.5 Plush. They were the most comfortable running shoes for me so far.
The Quantic was super legit, no doubt... loved the Torin 4 and 4.5 Plush
The last Torin that I wore was also 4.5 Plush. It blows my mind that this is still the thing that folks reminisce positively on. Maybe they can make a big come back with advanced midsole material similar to 2023 Hoka, but there isn’t much goodness after VF Corp took over. This year seems to be done for them.
The problem with the quantic foam is that it was far from being as resilient in time as the EGO foams are. If you used the superior 4-5 which were very thin, it was much more noticable that the foam had collapsed after a few hundred km
All I know is my two pairs had well over 500 miles each before I retired them, and they were just as comfortable (if not more so) at the end than early on. The outer sole is why I had to retire them. Would pay good money for another pair in my size.
Altra torin 4 were the best running shoes that i ever had.
I ran my first marathon in the Altra Escalante. They have had hits and misses over the years but overall I still enjoy their shoes.
I think it’s super smart of them to have a transition shoe like this, to get the folks who fear the 0 drop.
I'm very curious about this - I loved their shoes for years, but then had to step away from zero drop for awhile so this sounds right up my alley
They're all foot shaped - just different widths. Every reviewer seems to struggle with this, everyone seems to conflate 'foot shaped' with 'wide' - not so. The shape is all about not putting the 'point' in the centre, Altra (and Topo / Vivo) put it where a healthy big toe should be - over to the side!
🎸🙋♀️Yes thank you. Don’t know why they don’t understand. LOL Before Altras were created, I wondered why we had to cram our toes into a tiny pointy space.
I like Altra for the wide and comfy toe box… don’t care about the drop. I’m down to try these out.
I think this is what was written in the book of revelation about the end times...Altra putting out a non-zero drop shoe? wasn't expecting that.
🎸🙋♀️I know. I’m upset. I thought of all the nonsense in this world, I could at least trust Altra! Now I’ll have to be careful to not get the model with the drop!
I still probably have no desire to run in an Altra but I do love a good Thomas and Robbe review
Ive been running in Altras for about 4 years and Im glad theyre adding drops. Im sure theyll keep it to 4-5mm in the future. I tried the topo cyclone 2 out and its my current favorite shoe. I dont want to always run in zero drop but i like what it does for my body and the way i run. I see a lot of issues in the achillis and hamstring when i run in 8mm drop shoes often
I might try the cyclone out too. How do they handle overpronation?
@@cedric_v there's a little bit of a built in arch in the shoe and if I'm not mistaken I think all topos have a little arch support in their shoes. I don't usually like anything in the arch area but these are very comfy. That little bit of the arch might be able to help pronation for you. It's not intrusive, it's not like a medial post or anything and the pebax is soft so the arch doesn't really push up into your foot.
@@Dan_SouthYeah thanks! Im not a big overpronator, most of the time when im tired or dont warch my posture. Been running in Altra paradigm for the last months but always keen to try out other foot shaped shoes. Can you compare them to these altras?
Thanks for the info man
@@cedric_v I can't really compare them to the paradigm I haven't tried those out. I have the torin 7s and have run in the torin 5 and 6s. Cyclone has way less stack height than those but the pebax gives much more energy return and response than those ego max models. I've been using the cyclone as my workhorse trainer. I actually stopped running in my torins since I've gotten these because the torins just feel sluggish now
@@cedric_v pebax, if you've never run in it, can be pretty unstable. I tried higher stack shoes with pebax and I don't get the wobbly ankles in the cyclone like I felt in the nike invincible and saucony endorphin speed.
I was a Big Fan !!! Started with the superior 2.5... and i stop with the lone Peak 4 and the Olympus 4..... they sold the company and the things change too much for me.... So now they look good but not for me anymore.✌️
I know. I always trusted Altra. Now I’ll have to make sure I don’t get the drop models.
I bought the Provision 2 years ago…so disappointed!
I don’t wear anything but Altra. I love some models more than others of course. Now I’m very disappointed they’re making a model that is NOT zero drop.
I own a pair of- took a little bit to get used to but I enjoy it! Got about 100 miles on em and they’re holding up strong - the heel is nice - not a big fan of the laces. But overall it’s a solid shoe. Using it for my marathon training.
For the price - I picked it up for 140 plus tax - it gets the job done…
I remember Altra loyalists freaking out when the Rivera first came out, it was kinda fun.
they have always needed a transition shoe, finally plus a foot shaped relief shoe, (ie recovery shoe. long distance easy etc etc) im down for this, at finally an option for people who wants a foot-shaped Hoka shoe FINALLY hahaha, ive always wanted one lol
updated on this.......I'm going to go off on a rant on this shoe (pre-requisite warning)... I get Altra has different last different foot shapes etc, but it's just disappointing that I have better luck shoving my foot in an 4E Asics Nimbus 25 in the same size and having a much comfortable time in that than being comfortable both in the width of the midfoot of the shoes and also the width of the toebox (or should i say its widest point where my big toe would sit). And i get it tappers off in the nimbus to the front end of the shoe, but having a thumbs length space mitigate that for me. Anyway the volume of this shoe in the toe box isnt a lot and im pretty sure (or least it feels like it) the widest bit of the toes box is pretty much the same as my 4e Nimbus 25, i get there is a small drop (reason why i bought the shoe, for the drop and the 'foot shape', but alas I am majorily disappointed in this shoes, and I have also tried the VIA Olympus models (both of them), again, great this time the width is good, and the 0.5mm drop (plus the rocker) is what I wanted but the working volume of the toebox is not as much as again as a point of comparison the 4E Nimbus 25, anyway rant over sorry, really disappointed in both shoes, cant speak enough praise for the Asics Nimbus 25
I think the shape thing is hard to understand if you don't NEED it. I have pretty narrow feet, but they're very 'foot shaped'. So most normal shoes push my big toe over - some brands are extra 'middle pointy'! - Adidas actually hurt my toe! So for me, an Altra feels great even if the foam isn't the best, love the Torin for instance. If they could get better foams, I'd wear nothing else... maybe.
I agree! Injinji toe socks help too.
It’s the European last, too narrow. I can’t wear some brands for this very reason.
I feel this so much. I steered away from Altra until about 3 months ago. Thought my feet were narrow and while I mostly ran in 4-6mm drop, the 0mm drop scared me. Then I got my Olympus 5's and they completed changed the game for me. I've ran a 50 mile and 100 mile ultra marathon in them and have about 300 total miles on them. I now cannot put my foot in any other shoe without it feeling completely cramped and my body seems to love the 0 drop....For this shoe, I'll definitely try it out. For some reason I really like the generic EVA midsole (speedgoat and olympus). I wanted to love the Clifton 9 but blistered in it, so this could be it for me on the roads.
@@myersa31 the shape vs width thing is really interesting, but possibly hard to communicate. Looking at some recent Inov8 shoes, they’re 4 or 5 on their width scale (1-5) but they’re also quite footshaped - the insoles were actually a similar shape to some Altras! But Inov8 don’t want to talk about shape, probably gets confusing.
You might try Topo, they are narrow in the heel and midfoot but have the wide toe box. They fit my foot well except for their arches. They also don't have the best foams.
Ultimately I think this is a miss by Altra. It may bring in a few new customers, but really if someone is looking for more drop, at that price point, there are better places to go. Altra is now treading in different waters (at least with this shoe) where there is just better competition out there. If they wanted to leave the zero drop market with a shoe, they would have probably needed a much better midsole... but then again I'd also want that on their zero drop shoes.
Outside of that, It looks great and I'm still a huge fan of Altra and foot shape toe boxes.
I think it’s ultimately the foot shape that they’re banking on being their selling point. For what it’s worth, I agree. I like the way altras fit but I can’t always do a 0 drop
I think they’re trying to make a foot shape market and not be stuck as a 0 drop brand.
Topo has for sure made a dent in Altras sales in our store, so I think this is a smart move to be competetive.
Dude.... They are not willing at all to, attack the "drop market" did you even listen ?
They just want to make a shoe that offers a softer transition for people who want to QUIT THE DROP.
It is the complete opposite lol
You’re not supposed to go from high foot drop to a 0, it’s good to go to a mid/low foot drop first before 0 so this is smart on their part to offer people a shoe to help work their way into 0 drops.
This is probably why co-founder Golden Harper has moved on from Altra and is now creating new products like the FloorRun Harness and Bridge Soles. This is sort of ironic because Golden developed the Bridge Sole to transistion to zero drop easier by making Altras feel more like a 4mm drop. He coined the term " zero drop" by modifying the midsoles of shoes sold at his father's running store using his home toaster oven. He looked at it as a way of preventing injures since so many people coming in the store were complaining that a lot of the shoes sold at the time were hurting them.
well duh. hoka was 1-2 yrs older than altra and got distributed a lot more faster and got famous much longer gap ahead for obvious obvious reasons that at least partly probably foundationally never changed
and hoka's biggest problem is exactly the j frame and heel cuck i'm sorry heel cup , and simping mtb(they love to print round-earth-ly tshirts as well, and pump tracks and dj and parking is just as toxic if not more so than "high stack high drop" ethos ) whilst never could possibly enable any runner to "roll" like an actual mountainbike(r)
@lyrilljackson Deckers dumped tons of money into Hoka... they weren't even profitable the first 10 years.
It’s a great shoe I did some running in this about 2 months ago! I enjoyed it
Brian Beckstead, co-founder of the Altra Running brand coined the term. "When Altra coined the term 'zero drop' it was never about minimalism, it was about getting your foot into natural and stable positions…SOOO that’s out the window I guess 🤷♂️
You can hear him talk more about it on Monday on the next episode of The Drop!
🎸🙋♀️THANK YOU! I won’t wear anything but Altra & get all my friends & family to wear them. Now I’ll have to apologize. Lol Also now I must be careful to not order a model with drop! I’m upset.
The only way this would get me is a midsole selling point. 4 mm drop shoes don't bother me, but with a blasé midsole there's no reason for me to buy this. Add on the fact that it's Altra selling a 4 mm drop shoe, and it bothers me on a principle level
Thanks for the info. 🙏 They are still going to make zero drop shoes, correct? Then don’t buy this one if you want zero drop. I think it’s good for Altra to expand. Maybe it will make them more competitive with Topo. I don’t like that they didn’t go with a better foam but it sounds competitive with the Clifton where durability is an issue.
I was literally about to comment, "So this is basically a Hoka Clifton."
About time! Zero drop has always equaled negative drop to me unless the cushion is high stack and firm. This is a much needed version for Altra.
u forgot about the via? or that's too thick and chonky
Altra uppers… super comfortable - yes. Super sloppy? Often also yes.
This would be good to mix in the rotation but the Torin 7 ended up being so good, with this shoe being only so so, I’ll probably stick to the Torin.
The energy in this review was so low that I had to go back and rewatch the Aurora video
The stack height is different for woman because it’s a smaller size. Just like how Thomas’s 10.5 will have a higher stack than the mens 9.0.
EDDBUD also mentions this frequently since he wears a huge size
Awesome, now we don't have to ask Altra 😂 Also, totally get that but super weird that Altra would be the only one doing it, pretty much nobody else gives separate stack heights in their specs
@@Believeintherun I'm assuming it's because men's size 9 in the standard of measurement for World Athletics. Also, if it's unisex sizing (like in many of the racers) this is a non-issue since there aren't separate women's sizes.
It’s meant to be a transition shoe hence the 4mm drop. It doesn’t go against the ethos. It’s to help attract new people to the brand.
As a recent converted ALTRA Acolyte & lover of zero drop shoes, I have to ask why the need for such shoe like the FWD, when the market is way ahead of the game in that territory? I totally agree with Robbie on how his red-light rate, because that so called "breakthrough" by ALTRA is basically the same thing as the latest HOKA Clifton, which is a "nothing burger shoe."
🎸🙋♀️I’m an Altra loyalist; won’t wear anything else. This is unsettling to see Altra go backwards to “compete” with shoes that aren’t made for the human foot.
These guys are baked!
It’s pretty risky to tie down the whole brand to a particular technology or design philosophy. On did away with speedboard in their new shoes, Salomon shoes are finally softer. Altra’s gotta get with the times - still no supercritical, or TPU midsole. I’ve worn many Altra shoes before, but I was in it for their foot shape, not zero drop. Their shoes always rode bit slow. Now that there’s Topo Cyclone 2, I don’t have a reason to buy another pair of Altra.
I believe their ego max is a TPU blend
Vanish series is supercritical and honestly, the tempo is a very good shoe, just way overpriced
@@Believeintherun thank you that’s a great endorsement for the model that I totally forgot about, because it was priced at $190 when you reviewed it. Now that Vanish T is priced at $170, same as Speed 3, would you guys consider it a legit contender in the versatile companion shoes category?
Interesting. As a recovering Altra fanatic (switched almost exclusively to Topo now), I don't really understand this shoe. Maybe it's meant for people to get introduced to Altra, maybe even as a walking shoe?
🎸🙋♀️You could always trust Altra! Now they’ve lowered their standards by raising their heels LOL I’m an Altra loyalist; won’t wear anything else. I must be careful when I order to not get stuck with a drop model. I have all my friends & family wearing Altra; I’ll have to warn them too.
It's 30mm thick at the heel/26mm at the forefoot for women, it says it on the medial side of the shoe back near the heel.
As an absolute Altra fanboy, I'm fine with it. I won't buy; it but if it gets ppl to the brand then I'm good. And I am sold on the wide toe box and zero drop philosophically.
🎸🙋♀️Yes agreed. I won’t wear anything but Altra. I’ll just make sure I don’t get stuck with a model with drop. I also thought that this new drop model might bring people to Altra. But I’ll never understand why people want to wear a heel. Lol It’s not natural.
It's getting harder and harder to _believe in the run_
This is the Altra Clifton similar stack and drop. They even went with an EVA foam.
I’ve been with Altra since the first iteration of the Torin. I can honestly say they changed my life. I had severe plantar fasciitis and it was very painful for me to walk in regular shoes. I put those on and never looked back. The original Escalante were another favorite which I bought a bunch of pairs of them about 5 years ago along with a few others like the one v3 which I’m walking in right now as well as lone peaks. Sadly my Escalantes have now all been retired except for two new pairs of Escalante racers. Once these are gone I’m afraid I may have to check out Topo. Zero drop is where it’s at boys.
I do still have a pair of Torin plush but those are a totally different shoe from the original Torin. I wish they would rerelease the original with new colors.
the escalante racer is one of my favorite shoes of all time. I'm in to try this shoe, but if altra wants to play with the big boys, they are going to have to fix their durability issues. That's the elephant in the room. I know not foot shaped, but there are a decent amount of 4-5 mm drop shoes on the market (kinvara comes to mind) that run circles as far as durability is concerned around altra. I think the move away from ego and using eva could be the best thing about this shoe. Ego is such a bummer. Oddly enough, calling an altra shoe "boring" and "not exciting" could be the best thing for altra.
mehh I think your wrong here. I think the EGO regardless of the durability is one of the best features of the shoe aside from the wide toe box. Adding EVA to the Altra is like putting all season Continentials on your Porsche GT3. #EpicFail
@@jakenissa8641 agree to disagree. In all of my experience with ego foam, it falls flat and dies at like 50 miles in. One pair, it happened in 30 or so miles. It's not a "high performance" foam to begin with, but it becomes like running in sand. It's like right when you start to get excited about a shoe that feels good. That's just my experience. I've run in plenty of EVA shoes that just go and go and go. Nothing special and boring in the best way. That's what I want in a daily shoe to put miles in. So yeah, if a super sticky set of tires lasts 10 miles on my gt3, I'll take the all season continental's for getting around town, with the occasional "spirited" trip through the twistys.
I've wanted to try Altras, but avoided the zero drop for fear of an Achilles or calf injury. Adding a transition shoe with a drop makes sense. From the side, the sole looks like a leaf. 🍃 It's cute.
they prolly didn't wan to splurge on a "sharp pivot" like this. but the product line is getting a bit bloated for sure.
Makes me feel fortunate that the first pair of running shoes I purchased were zero drop so I never had anything to adjust to.
First Like from 🇪🇸. A nice day for everyone.
A nice day for you as well. Shame these shoes were a bit of a letdown eh.
@@pickelbarrelofficial1256 👍
I really enjoy watching your videos so keep them coming. But a couple of things I wonder if you could consider incorporating. (1) The shoe operating window and the (2) optimal running style.
(1) The first is based on my experience with the Endorphin Speed 3. I just don't get the hype....or do I?? I love the cushion when standing and walking but at slow speed running, I find it clunky and flat. However, when picking up the pace such as track intervals, I can really feel the bounce. So, it posed the question for me about an operating window of shoes. Yes, this is subjective and personal but isn't most of your remarks about a shoe? I reckon it will help guide runners towards a shoe that meets their needs.
(2) The second relates to the relationship/impact of the rocker and forefoot cushioning to running styles. The origin of this question refers to Adidas where (another) reviewer felt they didn't suit heal strikers because the forefoot cushion and rocker position/design required the heal striker to overcome and get over the top of the forefoot making it inefficient (maybe that is fixed with the Evo rocker change??). Anyway my point being it will be great to get some guidance on whether some shoes suit certain styles over others.
Thanks for reading (if you got this far!)
I think we try to include these things when possible, but as you said, it's all very subjective, which is why it's hard to ever give a shoe a truly bad review. Every shoe will work for a certain type of person out there. We try and tell everyone to find a reviewer that most fits your running style and go with that. Thanks for watching!
Clifton also EVA foam with midsole rubber in the same place. Its a daily trainer, it doesn't need to be exciting.
Think the reference is that the EVA in the Clifton (imho) feels reasonably lively. That’s obvs specific to the foot strike and weight of the runner. Dead EVA can just be that
It sounds reasonable to compare to the Clifton. For a low drop, moderate stack, rockered shoe, I would probably lean toward the Noosa Tri over this one. For a non-plated rockered shoe, the foam needs to be a little firm to maintain that shape and I am wondering if the Ego Max foam is too soft to do that. I think the shoe has potential but I'll pass on this iteration.
As an ex Altra cultist, I'm looking "FWD" to your upcoming review of the Topo Atmos.
So its a Topo shoe?
So they made a Clifton?
Stack is close if not identical. Bucket seat ✔️
CmEVA✔️
Light with decent rubber coverage✔️
I need to have some low drop, but not necessary 0 foot drop. I have bad back, and the higher drop kills me. The problem with Altra is that the frame is too thin. My feet keep bearing down on the frame either on teh inside of my foot or the outer. Just come on, make a broad base shoe!
Purchased this shoe last week and it’s not plush, doesn’t feel great. It feels like it’s cheaply made. I loved the 2.5 & 3 Torin and ran all my 13.5 in the Torin but can’t find any of the newer Torin with the same comfort.
Altra could be the company that sold out the most...
🎸🙋♀️Always thought I could trust Altra.
I've tried these shoes on 2 runs, and I'm been pretty loyal to this brand for 2 years.
I like the idea of the EVA foam. It's lighter, and refreshing for Altra. It finally pulls away from the TPU EgoMax foam they made bland.
But the drop: it just didn't make sense. I didn't mind the heightened drop, but it definitely felt like betrayal when this shoe dropped.
If they can keep the lightness and the EVA in the shoe but stay on zero drop, I think Altra will have something that gets to compete with some brands while still maintaining that uniqueness Altra still has.
Does this have a vibram sole ? Looking for something grippy
No
I think the olympus model is the only Altra model with the vibram megagrip compound, which i think is the best for grip. I have 2 pairs of the Olympus 4 and i love them! Topo Athletic has a few models with megagrip and the Hoka Speedgoat model has it too.
So their quality has dropped the last two years with way lower durability and now going away from the things brought buyers in? This is making it so easy to fully switch to Saucony (which have low drop, high quality shoes in their line).
Don't want to take a risk,
Most of the shoes 👟 what I tried not equal to ASICS Kayano series.
This shoe makes no sense. Why would they ‘drop’ the ego midsole?
The Altra Clifton 1.
Is a late stage meta rocker?
Regarding zero drop--Are there ANY professional runners who do longer distance races and training in zero drop? I always figured it's a niche scam, really.
Not sure but for me it changed my life. Fixed my shin splints and got me running without any pain for the first time in years.
My feet love these!
Strange.
Well, since Altra I’ve been going higher and higher in the stack height the new Torin I think is 30 mm plus a 6 mm insole is quite high. They removed the Escalante racer which was their only lower one left.
and you really don’t get any of the benefits of a zero drop shoe with that height cushioning I think to get any of the benefits your shoe has to be 20 mm or less, N0 drop and no arch support. otherwise you’re really getting no benefits, but marketing. Now it seems to be a lot like the Kinvara with a better toe box
It’s always been marketing lmao that’s why they’re dying
topo-drop-style
Hell must have frozen over.
🎸🙋♀️I won’t wear anything but Altra. Now I’m upset about Altra lowering their standards.. (by raising their heels Lol)
@@marlahart2060 - There isn't any draw for me; my feet are low volume and narrow, and even though the zero drop is fine, their shoes just don't fit me at all.
Altra seems to be focusing too much on expanding the brand to new buyers rather than catering to their loyal customers. They do however listen so if you have feedback to give do it 😘
We could all use more 4mm drop shoes, in my humble opinion, but the last thing I would do is buy 4mm drop shoes made by Altra. Why don't they focus on getting their quality and materials right for the zero drop shoes they've always made, instead of making something new that continues their shit-for-quality ethos?
not sure why you guys review Altra. It is apparent that you don't really like them... and never have
So, these days, I am not too impressed by athletes who perform better than those of the past when the technology in their respective fields has changed, such as lighter bikes, shoes, tennis racquets, etc. and wind tunnel training, advanced nutrition, and so on. Thoughts, anyone? The fact that I or you or most people on earth cannot perform anywhere near their level is a given.
The most injuries I had was wearing 4 mm drop NB More v3 and no injuries with any shoes with drop higher then 6mm including all other NB. I'm afraid even imagine wearing zero droped shoes.
Vanity Fair. The takeover had to result in this, sooner or later. VF want to sell more and what sells well? Nice-looking, narrow shoes with elevated heels and triangular toeboxes. RIP Altra...
Honestly this isn’t a new drop, it’s more of a lift.
Robbie needs a drink
no ego is a shame
Hard Pass
This shoe should be called Altra-Not Altra
HOKArized. LOL.
Maybe HOKA could make an 8mm drop shoe 🤷♂️
Robby's got nothing... typical
Clifton vibes…
i might be the only altra fan that is excited for this shoe... oops
If zero drop was better Nike and Adidas would have all of their world class marathoners in them.
I would reverse this and say the small minority of runners who do best in zero drop shoes should have more options besides a couple of companies which don’t have critical foam midsoles. I know an multi-time OTQ runner who had injuries that have been all corrected by running in zero drop. He’s at a disadvantage only having these companies to choose from.
No, they’re afraid to go natural for fear of losing sales. People are used to wearing ‘heals’ haha & cramming their toes into a point.
As a recently converted Altra 0 drop tragic, they (Altra) are starting to annoy me.
Can't help themselves; they have to join the flock.
Their random fit is also getting annoying; one model is perfect, another is a mile out
Altra shoes are straight trash. The durability of these shoes are a joke.
oh ok, fwdexp sounds better than floexp