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4 Track Recording Tutorial - External Bouncing to HiFi VHS
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
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#Tascam244
#TapeRecording
#Retrorecordingtechniques
#HifiVHSaudio
#Externalbouncing
#Analog
![Mixing 4 Track Cassette Down To HIFI VHS! [Keeping It Analog]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JE4wUwdysfA/mqdefault.jpg)
In the mid 80s I was mixing down to digital using the Toshiba, DX 900 PCM VCR. That work great.
Cool, sounds like great setup for the 80’s
I did exactly the same when I had Tascam 244 and later the Tascam 688 which had the extra advantage of having a Midi SMPTI track on 8 which I used for my Alesis SR16. Great for keeping that Stereo image when bouncing to my Nicam VHS VCR. Nice Video and Good demo.
Hey thanks for watching the video! I also like the 688 too, just got mine back from being fixed.
I did this in the 80s and 90s, before I got ADATs and eventually an Alesis HD24. Worked good!
Nice one! Yeah it’s a useful 4 trackers technique.
Nicely done! I would use 2 VCRs to bounce recordings back in my teens before I knew what a 4 track was lol. It was lots of fun.
In this instance, I'm not sure there's any advantage to this VCR technique, over say...bouncing to your DAW or a small recorder... or even your phone. You're also stuck bouncing all the current tracks in use, otherwise getting anything to ever line up with other tracks would be a big pain. While internally, you can bounce 2 tracks to 1, or whatever, retaining another track and so on.
Thanks for checking out the video! Yes you’ve got more options if you bounce internally, I thought I’d give this technique ago to see how it sounds. 😊
Analog is LIFE!!!!
🙌👌
Man, this takes me back when we used to record our band back in the 80’s. Keeping it vintage man!
Yeah, you can’t beat some of these old skool analog techniques. Thanks for checking it out Dude!
Very cool to see some old skool recording happening. Nice one.
Thanks dude, yeah you can’t bear some of those old recording techniques. 👍
Incredible!!! Real music to my ears! Thank you!
Much appreciated, thanks very much!
Hi Adrian, that's a fantasticly organic recording. Just perfect in every way. That's the way music should still be recorded. Kind regards. Paul.
Hi Paul, thanks so much for having a listen and your kind comment! Glad to hear you’re enjoying the organic approach to music making too.
Yes Adrian, I certainly am. I too still have an old video recorder so I might give it a try for external bouncing. I'm right into the late punk era at the moment. I've done recreations of the undertones next up is turning Japanese by the vapors. Wish me luck 🤣🤣
@@spooktasticaparanormal I’ve been enjoying your new series of punk covers, they work really well recorded to tape. I say dust off your HiFi VHS unit then and give the external bouncing a go. 👍
epic nothing like the old way and blues mix with rock and loving the bass walk :)
Yeah, it’s great fun to use these old analog techniques! Cheers for watching and talking the time to leave a comment.
sounds gr8; i'd seen that trick done b4👍
Thanks very much! Yeah, it one of those old skool cheap skate home studio tricks. 😅
TIME OUT OF MIND outtake! VERY NICE
What a compliment, thanks very much! 🙌👍
great sound & good work
Much appreciated, thanks.
This was great. Those preamps and the overall output of the 244 are just great, nice and rich. Well done
Thanks very much! Yeah, the preamps are really nice on the 244’s and add a subtle bit of texture/warmth to stuff.
@@wehappyfewmusic I have the 246, which technically uses the same channel design. Funny enough, though, I’d say the 244 beats it in terms of sonic mojo. The 246 is king of features, at least in terms of 4-tracks imho.
@@ericvannielsen That’s interesting, I must admit I’ve got a bit of GAS for the 246 due to those extra features, but I keep holding myself back😂
@@wehappyfewmusic Ah, man. I feel you. Before I had mine, all these people were telling me on forums what my 244 lacked in comparison with the 246. To summarize, you could make the 246 the center of your setup if mixer features are your #1 priority. Personally, my main concern is sound quality, even with my smaller MTR’s. Lots I could say, but for the sake of brevity, the 246 is #1 in terms of functionality (head to head with the 424mkIII, bests it in terms of its EQ section imho, but lacks the awesome computer transport), but not even top 3 in terms of sound quality amongst the units I own (unless warm, broad low end is your thing and you don’t care about punch or HF clarity). But I play acoustic instruments and not super thrilled with the lack of high end. And it lacks the punch of the 244, which I’ve blabbed about on some of your other videos. So in the end, it’s really about what you need and want for your music. It also takes up a lot of room for a 4 tracker (RMX64 is king of this, of course).
All that said, I’d love to watch a video of yours going through its useful features. I’ve owned mine for four years and only the past few months would I claim to understand all of its features. Do what’s right for you!
EDIT: For the money the 246 goes for now even compared to when I bought it, I believe an investment in an excellent outboard mixer like the SSL Six is a better use of that kind of money. Modern-sounding pres, decent EQ WITH compression (one knob), and two stereo summing channels which can be helpful for bouncing/ping-ponging if you’re doing it outboard to a VCR or something (you can apply EFX/compression that way, too!). I think us MTR fans forget that it’s really not a sin to have a properly separate mixer. Also you already have that A&H, which I wish we didn’t have to pay import charge prices for here ;-)
@@ericvannielsen I was actually seriously considering the SSL Six before I bought the A&H, it looks like a great little mixer but I decided I liked the extra features on the A&H. I’m going to try doing some mixes using the tape outs from my 244 into the A&H to see how it sounds (might try a bit of parallel processing etc). I know what you mean about the 424mk3’s too. I’ve owned 3 over the years and sold all of them as wasn’t that impressed with the sound quality, the 244, MT8X, or 688 all sound better to me. Hopefully I can get my new Akai MG614 working and do a massive sound quality shoot out soon! 😅
Great Blues in this tutorial
Thanks, glad you like the music!
Fantastic 😊
Glad you like the tutorial! 👍
I thought about using 2 vcrs for overdubs.switch tapes back n forth till i got a finished product.im going to do that and send it to a vinyl cutting lathe company since i dont know how to master digital for vinyl.i just hope the vinyl cutter guy knows what to do with a vhs tape.theyre quite young at that company.little elephant records.
I’ve also thought about doing something similar, but haven’t got around to it. Would love to hear how you get on and if Little Elephant Records can cut vinyl straight from VHS. Good luck 👍
@@wehappyfewmusic thanks for reply!!
this is gold and may actually help understand today's digital emulations of these equipment. subscribed immediately.
Thanks very much, glad you enjoyed it!
no
Wow it’s 1990 again!
Retro futurism! 😃
Can you do a super in depth video of the start to finish process (go you set up the inputs to record, to how you bounce to an external vhs then back, and how you upload it into your computer so you can share it online)?
Yes that’d be possible, is it the Tascam 244 you’re particularly interested in?
@@wehappyfewmusic well my band is gonna record using a 12 input analog mixer straight to VHS (we plan on recording live) so i really want to see a video on how you would go about that process as well as the process of uploading it onto your computer if possible, your content is informative and i love how calm you are!
@@Checker. I’ve been thinking about trying the same technique, so that could work out well as a tutorial video. There is a risk of getting occasionally tracking noises recording to VHS though, which may spoil the occasional live take (less of an issue if you’re doing a mix down as it’s easy to rewind and do again).
@@wehappyfewmusic interesting, I'd love to see you do a video example. For us we're just trying to get that warm The Stooges/The Who live at Leeds/Velvet Underground sound at a poor man's price
@@Checker. Cool, that’s a great sound to go for! 👌
huh, I'll have to try this with 2 four track cassette recorders both my Teac 144 and my Yamaha MT4X both connected to a VHS player.
Yeah that’d be cool!
i don’t think that would be possible
well done!
I wonder how do you manage the gain staging in recording and external bouncing... i found that vu meters and led meters (in my 424mkII), aren't that accurate... is that a real issue or i'm overcomplicating things?
(sorry about my bad english, haha)
Greetings from Chile
Hi there, there’s a bit of guess work and trial and error with external bouncing, but I let my ears be the guide. As long as you don’t mess with the gain staging and maintain a reasonably even level, it works well.
The Doors Light My Fire brought me here
Cool, I’m very happy that the algorithm made that connection. 🙌😅
Can someone please explain to me why the panning hard left and right of the guitars and sending to the buses? I don’t understand… I have this machine and as someone moving from digital to analog this perplexes me.
It’s so you only record the signal on to one track when going through the buses. I don’t think I needed to do it in the earlier section of this video though, as I was in direct mode which automatically assigns one input to each track.
The sound does seem to have retained its fidelity after the bounce; I'm just a little confused as to why. Doesn't the VCR add an extra generation of signal degradation over an internal bounce? As a lifelong 4-track user I'm fascinated and perplexed.
Yes it is a little perplexing. The external bounce does add another generation but because the quality is higher on HiFi VHS, it still seems to sound higher fidelity than one internal bounce. Maybe the summing is better on VHS than it would be internally on the 4-track too, as the audio still gets recorded back onto cassette tape with either approach. I might try doing a direct comparison between the same song being internally and externally bounced in another video.
My guess is that the HiFi VHS is better preserving dynamics and post EQ frequencies from the mix-down. The 244 is a beast, but its frequency response is limited compared to the VHS. I could be wrong, but it certainly seems to be the best way to do stereo bounces while preserving audio quality 👌🏻
There’s another benefit here, you can bounce 4 tracks to one if need be…I would love a Time Machine now so I could try this when I needed it…we used to have to record extra tracks while we mixed down meaning stuff ended up only existing in the master. It would have been amazing to have been able to keep the original tracks in tact while bouncing down between an external machine (so nowadays I’d be able to rip all tracks do new mixes in a daw) not much point doing that now with a 4 track apart from for a bit of nostalgia and what could have been. Depending how good the vcr coukd sound I could imagine recording drums to 4 tracks, bouncing that to stereo vhs, taking it back in on two tracks and doing 2 guitars left and right , bounce down again and doing bass and vocals (and guitar solo) on 3 and 4 ….
i thank y g0nna like this app! this is not about video butt like t0 share info incase y use computer for last stage as master . they have new tech app 0ut f0r cassette y can get it at windows store 0r mac name is "DDi Codec " its 15.00 butt it has noise reduction settings and also a setting f0r type 2 and even type 4 if y like t0 make sound be a type 4 it lets y give any type setting i find it t0 be k00l.
Sounds interesting!
What does the VU stand for on the Meters? Hope it’s not a dumb question. 😬
Not at all, it stands for volume unit. It’s what sound engineers use to determine the power output/level of the music.
Thanks buddy. That makes perfect sense. What a lemon I am
@@JoexplayzI can’t believe you didn’t know 🙄
How do you avoid getting tracking noises on the VHS tape? I'm running into that issue when I use a VCR for mixdown.
I’ve started using better quality shorter tapes and leave a big gap after I press record, or before I stop the recording after the music finishes. This seems to help a lot.
Clean your heads maybe? 😊
Why would anyone want to bounce to a VCR tape ! It's garbage ! There's no reason to bounce anymore with so many tracks available . If you feel you need to bounce you're working with the wrong equipment .
Fair point but some people like to experiment with old analog equipment and techniques. It’s a very different sound/experience to working in a DAW, but certainly not for everyone.
@@wehappyfewmusic --- I agree about old analog equipment, 1 in. tape, fast speed, nice . But a VCR ? really ?
@@rainbowdeep9234 Yeah 1 or 2 inch tape is lovely and a great choice if people have the money. This video was exploring an old budget analog technique. 😊 Standard VCR audio is rubbish, but some HiFi VCR’s can sound pretty good.
@@wehappyfewmusic --- OK , then upload one full song from a VCR .
I remembr someone telling me they used their vhs for mixdowns … but I never understood why… probably because I had a Sanyo vhs in mono with terrible sound and got my Kodak VHS tapes from poundstretchers 🤪
Oh yeah, that would sound pretty lo-fi with that setup! 😅