What Causes Narcissistic Rage?
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2023
- In this episode, Dr. Ettensohn explores the possible causes of narcissistic rage, referencing the work of Ernest S. Wolf, a close collaborator with Heinz Kohut and author of the book 'Treating the Self: Elements of Clinical Self Psychology."
Dr. Ettensohn discusses the ways in narcissistic rage functions as a defense of the unbearably wounded self and results from implicit confusion between self and other rooted in traumatic early experiences of helplessness, humiliation, and shame.
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VISIT THE WEBSITE: www.drettensohn.com/
References:
Crisp, H., & Gabbard, G. O. (2020). Principles of psychodynamic treatment for patients with narcissistic personality disorder. Journal of Personality Disorders, 34 (Special Issue), 143-158.
Pincus, A.L., Ansell, E.B., Pimentel, C.A., Cain, N.M., Wright, A.G.C., &Levy, K.N. (2009). Initial construction and validation of the Pathological Narcissism Inventory. Psychological Assessment, 21, 365-79.
Ruiz, M. (2001). The four agreements: A practical guide to personal freedom. Amber-Allen Publishing.
Wolf, E.S. (1988). Treating the self: Elements of clinical self psychology. New York: The Guilford Press
I feel like I owe you money. These videos are like a therapy session. And you’re doing it for free. Nobody has ever been this good to me.
It's shocking how few really amazing people there are in the world.
The few ppl that create real useful content to actually help others fills me with such gratitude. And it makes me know that somebody is aware of those of us who have been stuck in dysfunction and that they care.
From 0 to 100 in only a few seconds ,from apperently calm behaviour to the strongest hurricane like rage within seconds ,very ,very frightening for the people around the narcissist 😮😢
Yes, I just experienced this with a friend, and it freaked me out. It was very frightening to be on the receiving end of it too. The friendship will never be the same. It makes me sad.
My narc father would RAGE at my for hours and I never understood what I did that was so terrible when I always tired my best. I internalized this is “I’m bad, I’m lazy” and kept him on a pedestal. As I’ve become more educated and healed I now realize how pathetic a person must feel and be to rage at small children and beat animals. 😢
Oh my heart breaks for your childhood and what you’ve witnessed. I wish you nothing short of kindness, peace and healing.
No human, nor animal should~Ever, have to endure violence or cruelty, of any description ...
@gessrinky9129 my husband is not pathetic he is injured.
@@stormchild831violence is normal. Man beats wife. Wife hits kids. The kids hit their partners.
I'm terribly sorry for your experience but was your father diagnosed with NPD? Or could he have suffered from any of the other cluster B disorders? NPD is an disorder, describing him as 'pathetic' is unhelpful. Also, the word 'narc' is very derogatory. I hope you find the right therapy to help you to heal, recover and manage the broken parts of your self and that you thrive.
Even when they are wrong, they cannot admit it. They excuse their mistakes, yet find fault with everybody else. 😮
Very few people admit when they are wrong
They rage at you for not following their plan, even though you don't know what their plan is and won't communicate.
I can’t speak for everyone, but even though on a conscious level you believe your caregivers were loving, on a subconscious level you understand that they engaged in significant child abuse and neglect and you become incredibly angry at your caregivers for throwing you to the wolves. The reality is, the modern victim is often the straw that broke the camel’s back.
What??
@@jopainting1668Darkuma's comment makes sense to me if I change the end to "and they (the narcissist) won't communicate". Might have been a typo.
😂
Ommfg! They are mentally ill but like Serial Killers will eventually through the use of technology not be allowed in positions of power or in the general public. Thank God.
Their plan is to hurt the closest one to them in order to feel better and then they still don't feel better. They are full of hatred.
This is why I can't hate my wife. I feel so sorry for her. I know why she is the way she is but I spent 26 years trying to save her. I endured the rages. I killed myself trying to give her what she claimed to need. It was never enough. I have nothing left to give. It hurts leaving...but it hurt staying more.
You Matter too 🤗 you deserve better!!!! Hope you can give yourself the time to heal & find happiness & peace of mind 🌷
@@daisylu1973
ThanQ. I appreciate that.
Please be kind to yourself.
It’s a good thing that you can’t hate her. The only way to deal with it is full on no contact. It hurts a lot at first but if you give in to their pleas ( and beware they will try every trick in the book, like they’re magically healed now) it will stop THEIR healing process, and your own. They will cautiously start the whole ball of chaos all over again. Just quietly shut the door and move as far away if you can. Don’t even tell them, some become violent and even commit murder.
Don’t try to repair them, they have to repair themselves. Unfortunately 99% of them are like shattered windshields in a car wreck. You just have to scrap it.
Wishing you the best with your exit plan. Taking care of yourself is a number one priority 😊
Your content on NPD is such a breath of fresh air. I so value the move away from demonizing individuals and attributing behavior to malice and towards compassionate understanding. Thank you.
Thanks for your support and thanks for watching. ☺️
I Also Appreciate your View, it helps us to see them through the Eyes of Empathy, instead of as Monsters out to Cause irreparable Damage, Thank You!!!!♡
@@healnpdI appreciate your explanations of the narcissists in my life. A friend one can get rid of. A partner or parent I can't get rid of. I understand how the narcissists is made that's why I have some empathy. I also realise it is not healthy for me. I feel it's easier to avoid contact
You need to leave and learn how to live, if a person doesn’t seek help and won’t help there’s nothing you can do for them
true , that's why i love this channel
So this is why they have such child-like reactions and behaviors while they're raging...
Narc rage is a temper tantrum. To heal they need to learn to grow up. That's quite difficult in our world
My ex seemed to rage when I was sad or had a complaint about how he was treating me, after I would bring it up, he would ignore me, so I would keep bringing it up and then he would rage how much he hated me and didn't love me anymore, or he would get angry when I was depressed from his treatment. He had absolutely no empathy.
Same with my ex-husband
Exactly here! He would get angry and upset because in his world I should have been happy, content and grateful for all the material comforts he provided. He wanted no complaints, no criticism, no questions, no reproach, no sadness or tears, and to be attentive, wait on him hand and foot, be a maid, cook, housekeeper, etc., while he was banging whomever he wanted on the side, going on trips, vacations, and even staying overnight at his bootycall's place.
your the narsisist
@@iramsavir5631the issue is that he genuinely didn't understand that there was anything more to it than material things because he has never once had a genuine mutual empathic emotional connection with another person, his value to others has always been judged materially so if that isn't enough for you he can't cope and doesn't know what the problem is, he can't understand what you are asking him for because he has nothing to compare it to, it sounds completely unreasonable to him.
Yes, like a shrieking banshee transmogrified erupting volcano. Vesuvius with a mad-on. Every hurtful thing their brain can imagine comes spewing out of their mouth like scalding lava - then an hour later when they've cooled off they pretend it never happened at all.
Interesting video. I don't think I'm narcissistic but there is a wounded part of me. The wound of not being heard. When I tried to tell my mother that she hurt me (3 and a half years ago) she got super defensive and made it clear that my hurt was a mere grudge and hers (telling her that she'd hurt me) was the real pain. I tried to point out that double standard and got the silent treatment. My Dad called over to reprimand me for hurting mum. I asked him why we were skipping over the part where I was hurt and only focussing on poor mum. He settled in to the silent treatment too. When my mother finally after 3 and a half years agreed to talk to me, she merely told me that it was my perception that she'd given me the silent treatment. This gaslighting was despite her letting a letter I tried to give her drop to the ground. She looked around to see if the neighbours were looking. This told me that she cared more what the neighbours thought than how I felt. She drafted in aunts and cousins to give me the silent treatment too. Many whatsapps went unread and ignored. So when she told me that it was merely my perception that she'd given me the silent treatment, I raged at her like I was insane. I raged at her like I was plugged in to a generator powered by the son. My anger was off the scale. I shouted back at her every insult she'd given to me. ''you're insane''. ''You're detached from reality''. ''You're entitled''. I went mad. I admit it. I was crazy. I was mad/bad/sad. The only course of action is to ignore her now. It's all so unnecessary. If only she could have just had one five minute conversation with me four years ago. But her false self is her real self. There is no real self.
I am so sorry this happened to you. Your suffering regarding your mom made me cry hard. I don’t know if it helps to know that some stranger felt deep empathy for you. Hugs, if you’d like them.
That story broke my heart for you too but I relate. Your mother definitely sounds like the one with the narcissistic traits... not you! Hope you are continuing to heal and that you realize it's not you. You are special and worthy of love and respect.
No contact 100%
I feel your pain. And I am an aware pathological narcissist, after 4years of therapy. Not severe one, haven't ever physically hurt anyone, but I live the mechanism. Your story reminded me of myself and my mother... When I used to try to show my pain. I remember our interactions in my teenage, her unbelievable ignorance, my rage at her ignorance, never seeing me... A narcissist mothers narcissists.. I think.. Do explore your vulnerabilities - it's always worth it..
I'm really grateful for your videos. I'm a 38 man with narcissistic traits and got through some therapist since I'm 23. In my current therapy, your insights are helping me tremendously because i bring them to here (and also recommended your channel). I'm getting deep in some unstable roots that translate into several little crisis that are somehow getting bearable overtime (at the beginning with this therapist that helped me to got to them, it was extremely unsettling and uninstalling). Its really sad that i couldn't find an therapist and the proper information sooner to deal with this, i needed to go after it myself. Books like what you recommend and others like The Inner World of Trauma saved my life. I really have not enough words to express my gratefulness.
I'm so happy to know that you are finding this stuff helpful in your healing. My best to you.
Good for you! This is so inspiring ! Thank you for your vulnerability and awareness . May you continue your journey with strength and love !!
glad you seen your trait. i wish more people did
@@shawnatv4355 thanks. i wish it so too, specially my mother and stepfather.
@mitiago You are brave to admit traits. Narcissists are made by their experiences. I can not condemn my narcissist husband and mother. They didn't ask for the problem.
Dealing with a Narc Father that is missing compassion and fairness and goes off screaming it’s hard to even talk to him with his superior attitude because he’s never wrong , It’s always someone else’s fault
This is by far the best most comprehensive explanation I’ve heard on narcissistic rage. Lots of great content out there by supportive people teaching how to recover from narcissistic abuse. I have recovered from childhood abuse, childhood incest, an alcoholic spouse, a partner with BPD, and none of
that comes close to the devastation of the vulnerable covert, narcissistic abuse I have suffered the last handful of years. Six year relationship living together with a joint owned house. She walked out a month ago and has not been back. Told me on the phone she has No emotional connection to me and has moved on. She claimed it was because it was abusive of me, and a sign I did not love her, because I set a boundary that she needs to apologize when she hurts me instead of me feeling sorry for her. Already had a new person, she got apartment 4hrs away where she is from. The way she discarded me so cold, abrupt, and dehumanizing is the worst thing I have ever felt in my life. So brutal, it feels I’ll never reclaim who I was before she projected her self and past into me and convinced me I did her wrong. I hurt her because I made her feel not good enough. Yet everyone saw, I could not have loved anything or anyone more.
I am so sorry you went through such a cruelty. I am here to tell you that although it doesn’t feel like it will get better right now, it will indeed get better. Your job now is to remain poised and not accept the upcoming hoovers, which most likely you will be subjected to. Whenever she comes back around, remember that the person she left you for is NOT actually gonne out of her life, she just put them on “pause” until she can feel the thrill of newness again, which is exactly what most likely she will do with you. Wishing you the best in your healing journey.
@@carriebell3566 Thank you so much for your insightful and kind responce. I wasn't thinking about the hoover coming at all. Couple days ago I got a weird email from her that mentioned her needing to keep her distance for now until we settle our estate sale proceeds. Then she goes on to say she will talk to me after that because I probably am looking for closure. I never mentioned needing anything except my money from the sale. So you are right, and I am glad to know so I can put my shields up and not engage.
Sorry
Examine your motives for getting involved with her in the first place. Two quotes that come to mind. She was made for the streets. And you can’t turn a hoe into a housewife come to mind. I’ll save you the therapy. Women like this are great for making xxx vids with. Not the types you get into relationships with. Remember that and take ownership of your past mistake and you’ll be fine. Violate what I just said, and continue reaping the negative bs and drama. Choice is yours
One of the best videos explaining the narcissist's difficulty of discerning self from other. also, great point abut caregivers' inability to mirror the child in a healthy way leads to the adult NPD having difficulty of empathising with others.
My ex was covert with her ways through out our entire relationship until the day I called her out on her playing victim, not taking responsibility for anything she did wrong, for texting other men, blame shifting, projecting and gaslighting. It took me about 10 months to fully see the bigger picture and kindly explain to her that unless she changes I’m out… that’s when she went from covert to overt and raged.. she quickly discarded me and jumped straight into a relationship with one of the guys she was messaging for new supply. I won’t lie it did hurt but I had a very lucky escape.
Thank you great advice. I will choose to not take it personally, and keep my distance. I have peace in who i am and my own choices.
I'm astounded that you explained this so very clearly and beautifully.
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve been the object of narcissistic rage. Several episodes of it. I’m still learning how to heal. At the time, I didn’t understand what was happening. This video has helped me so much. Understanding the why makes it apparent that I wasn’t the problem; the narcissist wanted me to think i was. And understanding where that rage comes from makes it easier to move away and heal myself.
I have the Four Agreements, I’m reading it again. I’m also bookmarking this video as part of my co-dependency treatment. Thank you 💜
Fun fact, I'm someone with NPD and I dealt with people raged on me for my entire life, I didn't start trying to apply a disorder to my abusers or cared if they had a disorder or not. The abuse is abuse, it doesn't matter if the person had a mental illness or not. Quit trying to apply NPD to your abusers, it is counterproductive to your healing.
Please I begg you Get OUT now! If you wait you will get ptsd and try to kill yourself! Don't be like me at stay for 12 years,! They don't love you
Hi, I am someone with NPD. Thank you so much for your videos and channel. You give an empathetic and destigmatized view of us and what goes on in our minds and it really helps people understand us and realize that we are not abusers or monsters, but traumatized broken individuals with a disorder that causes pain for us and the people we love
My ex would never have written such and insightful, coherent sentence. He was profoundly abusive.
I’m a psychotherapist, I grew up with an abusive narcissistic mother. It took me 30 years of therapy to heal from narcissistic abuse, but I have compassion for my mother. I stood up for myself and drawn healthy boundaries, I act firm around my mother. She only respects those who are more independent and powerful than her. She’s like a 2 years old. I treat her emotionally that way. That’s the best way to have a healthy relationship with them, act like their parent: boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, calm and assertiveness.
In a rare moment of honesty, my NPD parent told me the rage was fake.
”I learned how to do it when I was very young, to control my sister. I feign anger, never give even a milimeter on anything they say, and attack them over and over again. Eventually they get exasperated and go away.”
Don’t be fooled. Don’t let your empathy, intelligence and intellectual curiosity undermine your ability to see who these people really are.
PwNPD often revise their narratives to fit the self state they are in at the moment. This also happens with BPD and other personality disorders. “Confessing” that it’s all a put-on could serve a compensatory function of control or dominance in that moment. It doesn’t make it true. Even if it were true for that one person (who may or may not actually have NPD), it doesn’t make it true for every person with NPD.
Just dealt with an NPD.
No win scenario.
I have the book the Four Agreements. It is a great book. I really like your videos. It would be wonderful if everyone with NPD or NPD traits could understand their feelings and reactions to others. Anyone who takes on the therapy required to heal from this disorder and sees it through to the end is incredibly strong and courageous. God bless you for the work you are doing!
There were red flags when I first began my relationship with a narcissist that I chose to overlook. Perhaps you could include insight into your videos as to how some people tend to be attracted to narcissists. Hopefully, I've overcome this tendency! Like some others have commented here, I really appreciate your more compassionate, understanding approach to the topic of narcissism. You gave a very helpful reminder in this video about not taking narcissistic behavior personally. Thank you.
We aren't attracted to them We just feel we could save them but in the end we have to save ourselves and get away ...
Bro i have npd and all kinds of people are attracted to me like they love being abused for some readon
9:25
Unfortunately, not the case!
the rage is not only directed to close people.
I saw the narcissist rage with servers, waiters, and weak people.
Also strangers who represent a threat and outshine during her presence, so she's not anymore the center of everybody's attention.
I found your comment rang very true to my experience. In my own experience, it was listening to to a parent berate/belittle customer service agents on the telephone. It almost became like a hobby it happened so often.
@@ShadowWizard123 Exactly, I am actually surprised how this point was missed... narcissists love to denigrate people in customer service and treat them like slaves.
More close to bpd, but there's significant overlap in the traits and they have significant co-morbidity.
I say this for clarity sake
@BasedAnimosity
BPD= they do have empathy
They crave real connections, but they are controlling.
BPD rage:
Fear of abonnement
Sensitivity to criticism "self doubt"
Entitlement: neediness
NPD= zero empathy, no remorse
Sens of superiority. People are viewed as objects.
NPD rage:
Fear of losing a supply
Sensitivity to criticism "grandiosity"
Entitlement: because they exist, they deserve
I remember when we visited Disneyland, we had waited several minutes in line (like a person normally would at a theme park) and the ride broke down. When we left, the lady gave me a ticket to another ride and I said “thank you” and as we walked away he (narc) said to me “why are you thanking her? We just wasted time” sounding raged and I was like “chill she gave us tickets for another ride” and he kept going about it and I was like “it’s not her fault! It a ride. It breaks down, it happens, no big deal”
But to him it was so annoyingly big
I learned how to not take things others do persoanly and its a very freeing experience.
And when i lesrned other people werent causing my feelings i began to u derstand that other ppl werent hurting me. I never knew my emotions were talking to me about me. Ny pain was telling me that i wasnt giving myself the attention and care i needed. When i stipped chasing a source and began giving myself my attention i got even better! And then when i started to refuse to engage with abusive communication or disrespectful peolle i felt a sense of warm love fill me up with a glow of safety and security snd i realised i had to experience abusive ppl as an adult so i could redo those experiences that hapoed when i was a helpless chimd.
This helped me stay dedixsted to not hating. I know i dont u derstsnd anything enough to be using condemnibg judgements.
Im so hapoy that i no linger feel so lonely and aliesnted. 😊
I CANNOT thank you enough for this very thought-provoking and informative presentation. In this video, you framed an explanation of incidents I experienced that left me bereft of understanding what had triggered the reactions and behaviors of someone I loved very much. As such, those key moments have followed me as 'lost opportunities' to grasp that understanding. At one point, in the middle of rage being directed at me, I was looking into the other person's eyes and for a moment I saw a well of pain so deep, I remember thinking, 'there isn't enough love in the world to fill that void'. Seeing that, still left me wondering why all that anger was being directed at me. I NOW understand! I have backed this video up several times to grasp the depth of what you are explaining, I'm sure I will watch it again, many more times as I process the many confusing and painful interactions I experienced. Thank you again, so much for sharing your expertise with those of us that so desperately seek to understand.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching. 🙂
Omg the cutting rage! Like they are going to eviscerate you with words and turn all your weaknesses and secrets against you. It’s so painful. Yikes!
Yes, picking on weakness
My husband came from behind me and went into a rage and didn’t know why. He destroyed the entire bedroom. Said at least he didn’t tear me apart .. he did it because I didn’t have time to watch a CZcams video he liked.. I was late for work
The first few times he did it I never saw it coming. Actually peed down my leg 😢
I had to watch this a few times (and will watch it again) to feel ready to comment. It is tragic to me that so much of what we end up struggling with as adults is dictated by early experiences over which we had no control.
The projections and blending of self and others is so confusing…
I did not often see rage from my partner. More often, I saw overreactions and irritation over small, day-to-day experiences-a spilled drink, an overeager child (my person’s daughter), a forgotten detail in a story, a late arrival. I felt I couldn’t make a misstep of any kind without facing intense irritation accompanied by aloofness (devaluation).
I just watched a video from Sam Vaknin in which he discusses how most issues surrounding narcissism tie back to the individuals’ inability to individuate from their “mother figure,” and how, in their subsequent relationships, they seek to replicate and then separate from that relationship. He says that in the idealization phase, narcissists take and store an idealized snapshot of their partners in their minds. When you prove to be a separate object that doesn’t match this ideal, they devalue the real you, but their idolization of the idealized you in their head remains. I’m curious about your thoughts on this perspective…
My person had a terrible childhood. It’s no wonder he struggles the way he does, and it breaks my heart that no matter what I do, my imperfect self can’t get through to him.
Here is Sam Vaknin’s video: czcams.com/video/ACdRrnfcQKQ/video.html
Yes to all of this. Thanks for sharing!
Ty for the link. And Ty for this comment . Very powerful.
@@bambirose1869 I’m glad it resonated with you. ♥️
Mental illness has failed us when they closed the hospitals in 1986 my mom still missing sad 😢5 generations of this 😢😢😢
People don't want to see because it means they have to change and can no longer get away with their behavior. Their behavior is power. But who wants to give up power?They will have to take responsibility for being abused and having to fix it...not fair. I get that! It's sad for everyone...
Im sitting here watching this and crying . The narcissist that i love has discarded me but im not crying for myself ,im crying for him . For the pain he has inside ,for how broken he is , for how empty ,alone and unhappy he is . I love him so much and he cant feel it .
Omg stop it. He’s an abuser. His childhood is no excuse. I doubt he screams at his boss. He’s choosing to abuse you to feel powerful. You’re trauma bonded, get away from him.
Yes, it is very painful. Thank you for empathizing. I'm sorry you've been discarded 😞 and hope you find peace.
I feel bad for my ex too, the pain she carries is horrible but I don't think she'll ever face it, instead she'll just project it on the next person who she ensnares
@hello8987 and this is why they will never heal nor seek help. I sometimes wonder who is the issue? The child who was harmed or society?
@@hello8987 Hello, a narcissist here. We are not abusers, please stop demonizing us. The commenter is right. Narcissists are broken, alone, and feel immense pain inside. This disorder causes us and the people we are close to pain. I have many burned bridges and failed relationships because of how severe my disorder is. Also statistically, narcissists are way more likely to be abused themselves. After all, NPD is a disorder that develops because of childhood trauma. You are directly contributing to the stigma and are part of the problem as to why we tend to not seek help.
WOW! This is absolutely the best A+ video on Narcissistic Rage and helping me understand this sickness. They go on and on, so abusive and disturbing. I will be watching this over and over, plus sharing. So helpful and beautifully delivered. Hard to heal when the Narc constantly tells you that you're the cause of their problem, wth. Seems all I can do is keep saying "I'm sorry," but don't know for what!
Hey, please don’t generalize us and call us “abusive and disturbing”
Wow...I feel so lucky to find your channel. I have been struggling to understand about npd related to my life experience with one person in my life . I have been reading and watching Quora and many videos from CZcams about npd, and the more I explore about ndp in their views, the more I feel I completely get lost. Although this is a painful experience, I feel him in a different view, not an evil or demon at all. I also see him suffering and get lost in his own world and he needs help. I love the way you explain about npd, and it really help me understand about lots of behaviors of him that I have never found the answer after three months doing research about npd people, now I can feel a little bit released. Thank you so much. I will continue watching your videos. This was the third video.
Very noble of the nobleman.
Born and not made. Familial curse. My grandfather, aunt and uncle were narcs. My parents were neurotypical and loving. Couldn’t have asked for a better upbringing. My sister is a full blown narcissist. Her upside down inverted neurological wiring was there since early, early childhood.
your videos are literally my source of comfort. whenever i feel collapse again or in bad place menrallt, i always turn to youe channel. i feel loved and cared for, your voice is full of passion and care. it always make me comforter and relaxed instnatly, i never felt so heard before as a narcissist. im so grateful for your existecne. you litrally saved my life.
I'm so glad. Thanks for sharing your experience with me.
Doc Mark, thanks for once again giving us such an insightful take on this aspect of NPD. I specially appreciated your take on how it would look to manage it in a therapeutic setting, and even more your suggestion on how oneself can still do something about it by remembering that line that separates us from others; totally on point! Thanks for all the work and time you put into these videos as always!
Thanks for watching and for letting me know what feels helpful. 🙂
Somethg you said hit me . I was going thru a situation and your words directly hit "why my present predicament resembled my childhood trauma." It was so synchronous it stopped me in my tracks.
Same.
I never understood rage and anger like today because of this video, thank you.... for real.... I as vulnerable narcissist tend to be feared by my coworkers and tend to become silent at anything they do because I hold them accountable, I know intellectually that I'm not perfect so I don't hold myself accountable to those standards even though I sulk at the feeling of failure that is constant as I see my past and my bad decisions and can't seem to get my life together in the present, I thought that rage was something deliverate and confused me why it was so prevalent in families, but now I see that it's like a defense mechanism against trauma that attacks the grandiose self which is the fusion of ideal selfs to protect from shame, fear and abandonment and all the emotions felt and made to be felt by their own caregiver, my mom has experienced this all her life and now I understand her better, and I have experience internal rage and quiting from others all the time and now I understand me better, because it's one of the 2 main defense mechanisms against trauma: either avoid the triggers of trauma or "seek to destroy" the selfobject that reminds of the trauma with triggers like critisism, mokery even as jokes and even when others seeking to support me, seek to motivate me to be more talkative even when I don't want to, and also because their senses of self seem to be feeling rejected, it's interesting how rage plays a part and how undeliberate it is at the end, I can see now how generational trauma continues after so long and is so pervasive in societies even when rage and anger is viewed as a negative trait by society, it's almost automatic and if I who pledged "naively" to not have anger and rage never, feel so much rage and others fear me because of that posiblity always been present in me, I imagine how uncontrolable and confusing must have been for my mom when she tried to destroy that thread when she had those outburst for the minimal errors and broken expectations of a higher happier self that she always use to portray and that I thought was a perfect quality of her and even if she is inside a likeable person, it seems that somehow she was also fighting against losing that persona because of the expectations imposed on herself for being abused by her grandmonther so much and by the bad decisions of having children early and without any escape from her destiny of having to be an almost lonely mother with so many children, she was tired, I think that for me, I'm always trying to manage my reputation and my image that I'm good and excellent and do no harm or mistakes and everything that threathens this specially my errors or criticism from others and what I may perceive as attacks even if they are not, those things create impulses in me to be angry at the source of criticism because of the lack of understanding that the other person is different than me and I don't have any right to be angry at them for just some request or criticism that they are needing from me to change, but now i understand and it will be incredibely easier I think to be able to understand where my rage comes from and how that is just my projection and lack of proper perception of reality which will help me tremendously in my obvious work towards healing that and remove the pain and solve the rage from the root causes in the trauma
Can relate.
The source of criticism is coming from inside
How can I forgive my self and keep going
Stop being horrible to your coworkers. They deserve to be happy and safe.
That makes sense because he said my tears made him angry like he was a monster
Sorry
Great vid, & so true! It helps to know that my mother never meant to inflict the damage that she did. So incredible that she never recognized the chaos & pain around her, and asked herself a very simple question… Maybe my behavior has something to do with me. 😢
Thank you. I’m 67 and my mother did not start to abuse me until 12 years ago. She has narcissistic rages at me that have traumatized me.
I can see hints of her narcissism throughout my life but it wasn’t until she retired and I got a chronic illness that made me less available to her that she became abusive. And no she is not suffering from dementia.
I had a nervous breakdown because of her in October and this forced me to go no contact.
Listening to your video makes me feel like I need to have compassion towards her and help her deal with her inner demons in her old age, but unfortunately I am not healed enough for that yet. Maybe in the future.
I have tried many therapists and have not found anyone to help me. Today I had an appointment with a narc abuse coach and she was wonderful. I am so relieved to have finally found someone to help guide me through this tangle of emotions that have been torturing me since going no contact 7 weeks ago.
For anyone interested her name is Katia Beeden. You can find her on the internet.
Please have compassion for yourself.
All you are is a stand in for them to take the rage they have for their mother/father out on. Call them out on a lie? You’re humiliating them. It’s a mindfu#%. Save yourself and leave then be. Unless they are committed to therapy and 24/7 evidence of working on themselves they aren’t capable of a healthy relationship. Don’t fall for the occasional times they admit they know they have a problem - demand real commitment. I wasted a decade and believe me I received suicide threats and many many many moments of admitting they have a problem but all I saw was a few behavior changes - the mindsets and world view remains the same. It’s just putting lipstick on a pig - more image management. I have compassion from a safe distance.
I just got raged at tonight because I moved food in a cupboard to make it easier for myself to see what I had and make it easier to make a list of what I need to get when shopping. I couldn’t explain this because I was told over and over that I was being passive aggressive by moving the food. I tried to explain that it was to make things easier for me. I was told again that I was passive aggressive and just wouldn’t admit to it. I was raged at, talked over, threatened that things would get bad for me, that my food would be thrown on the garbage if I touched their food. I was told what a horrible person I am, had my past thrown in my face, etc. Then does not understand why I am done with the relationship. This happens far too often and is ridiculous. Won’t listen, blames me, talks over me and when I walk away because won’t listen they say that is the problem that I always walk away and won’t listen. Well who wants to listen to someone degrading you, not allowing you to explain and thinks that everything you do has something to do with them. It’s not about them, it’s about things I want to do.
Really fascinating stuff. This will sound very familiar to those of us who've witnessed narcissistic rage.
"The 4 Agreements" is a great place to start to heal, and/but it stands alone as a great book to read unto itself. Thanks for your work, apprecialove.....
Analyses on narcissists are invaluable in this digital day and age. Thank you❤
This is the kind of meaty content on narcissism that I’ve been looking for! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
The best explanation on the topic I have ever heard. Greatly impressed in your whole delivery.
It’s very important to identify this during/after divorce especially where children are involved. Unfortunately, I found out too late and in the WORST way 😢🕊️
Thank you! This was the best explanation I've ever heard on the subject. 😊🎉
Great video! I just learned about entitlement rage a few weeks ago and saw myself doing this in my last relationship (on specific occasions). Your video helped me even look deeper to past events and to understand myself even better. 🎉🤘🏻
You mentioning The Four Agreements gave me a quick flashback of my sister pushing this book on every new guy she met but didn’t work the book herself. It’s important to practice what you preach. And, yes, the book suggestion pissed me off bc of her hypocrisy. Lol I’ll read it bc YOU suggested it.
Haha. I think it's good for what it is. The one about not taking things personally was a bit of a revelation to me when I first read the book.
I noticed this when I asked a loved one about empathy, while I tried to "help" them empathise.. in a what would you do situation and was met with upset that stemmed from ego.. "why are you asking me that?!" demands. Since I've healed and am working on my bpd things have been better between us because I don't take this personally. He is also willing to communicate and wants me to communicate when I feel offended by him. He will also apologise and we will repair. He also is willing to take accountability, never initially but after some time he'll come back and take accountability to the extent that he can.
This is one of the most articulate videos I’ve seen on this topic. Thank you. Your contribution is appreciated.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow. How brilliantly thought out and literally perfection in description. I cant begin to describe how my (self) as the receiver in a heterosexual adult relationship with my x girl (a diagnosed cptsd, NPD, BPD ) whom i adored and literally had the (co dependent) adoration of her . Felt "the connection" however Constant egg shell walking, "whats the next Hair on Fire shoe to drop" the dark triadic influx of sheer gutteral terror cast upon me was of something gore novels were penned. In closing, of ALL the videos and studying Since this first and only dealing of someone in his 50's / her 40's (9 yr diff) that's dealt with minor gaslighting, outer fringe maybe road ragers etc. i have never thought someone would get so perfectly to the core of / i mean needled in to the sheer terror this precise (individual) can bring about is of sheer brilliance and exactly what i needed to find. Amazing how she creates / created these farcical scenarios that are beyond run of the mill "gaslighting" (its literally so far outa the realm of even plausible) and she actually believes it just by telling herself this (impossible) scenario. AND the compulsory denial is something outer worldly. Its sad from such a beautiful woman to witness the helplessness from outside looking in. Oh, and she will NEVER get treatment as "all these professionals dont know what they're talking about"
(So sad to see this, a mother, grandmother substance abuse for "the pain" ) thank you doctor you finallly wrapped this up for one doing really deep DEEP searching/ 100s of vids later you've nailed it in every aspect thanks again.
Amazing content! I found it very helpful. The empathic way to view these people and also not take personal attacks to heart is a good way to handle yourself
The saying: "Don't take anything personally, others' behaviours are reflections of their own projections"
Implies: "Don't concider the perceptions of others about you, all that matters is your perception"
Implies: "Don't let your fantasy world be bothered by others, protect it by dismissing their perceptions"
@marwan karim - You kind of turned that on its head. The point of the quote, which is from Don Miguel Ruiz’s book The Four Agreements, is that we are all acting in a world filled with our own projections, so we shouldn’t be so reactive to other people’s judgements. It isn’t meant to be solipsistic, and it isn’t meant to be taken literally as an absolute rule for living - because that would be sociopathic. It is meant to be nuanced. Thanks for watching.
Thank you so much. I am going through something concerning my son. I now understand what's going on. All I can do is pray at this point and try to make him understand that we are not against him. We love him and are trying to get through to him.
The best explanation of physiological roots of narcissistic behaviour I have encountered after much research.
I felt every word of this. Especially when you said, “the rage can have a delayed reaction, days, weeks, months or longer.” I’ve done this in relationships, where I’ve blown up or interrogated my ex about something she said or did days or weeks prior. Damn. I didn’t realize that was abuse… I’m not as self aware as I thought. And yeah, rage is 100% from a place of vulnerability, not anger. I’ll explain.
I’m a residential plumber now. Say, I make a few mistakes, or diagnose the problem incorrectly, but in front of the home owner(they like to stand over me). Then let’s say, the owner criticizes me, laughs at me, or questions my abilities. The humiliation from that feels like I’ve been physically assaulted. I can feel it across my face and chest, it literally feels like an injury from an assault. (Idk if that’s why it’s called narcissistic injury, but it makes sense?)
Because of this feeling as if I’ve been assaulted, I feel sensations of vulnerability creep up on me and I feel like everyone who may be around, knows. I feel like they can see it on my face, despite how well I may have brushed it off and played it cool. The voice in my mind starts to get loud, even screaming at me, ridiculing me for being incompetent and stupid. Now I’m getting this overwhelming sensation of wanting to immediately leave the job, even at the expense of quitting my job, so I can go home and hide away from the world.
The shame will be so strong that I’ll want to isolate myself until it subsides. So… I have done this when I was younger and yes, I even walked off a job, quit on site. I don’t do that anymore. What happens if I don’t walk off? Same scenario, exact same thing happens. I feel like I’ve been physically assaulted, my vulnerability creeps in, that internal voice shouting and berating me, that vulnerability is urging me to leave immediately, but I don’t.
I start to get angry with the home owner. If he/she continues standing around me, I’ll begin nitpicking the owner, blaming the owner for my mistake. I begin ridiculing and berating him/her for standing over me, for talking constantly and ultimately distracting me. This is all transpiring internally, while I’m trying to stay composed, I fake a smile, laugh and make conversation.
Meanwhile, the home owner’s remark, criticism and joke at my expense, begins to replay over and over in my head, as my internal voice is harshly condemning him/her.. Every little thing he/she does, irritates me, infuriates me, enrages me, but I have stay calm. Now, I usually finish the job and everything is fine, but the rest of the day, I’m ruminating about it, incessantly.
I may be doing something quite routine at the next job, but for some reason I feel like my body and mind aren’t synchronized, because I’m ruminating so much. That loud, disparaging voice jumps between criticizing me, the previous owner, the owner or tenant at the next job, the office lady at work, etc. Because of this, I may be prone to making more mistakes, if I do, I rage. I get pissed off with whatever it is I’m doing. I’ll go to the back of the truck, slamming and throwing things. I’ll vehemently hiss and curse under my breath, wanting to pull my hair out, punch something, break something and scream like a madman at the top of my lungs.
It’s amazing that you can see it in yourself and are willing to work through it. Your story feels like I’m watching a movie of my life starring my husband! He has never physically hurt me but it’s terrifying emotionally and the look in his eyes almost makes me believe he wants to punch me or even kill me. Then an hour later he acts like nothing happened 😮
Wow, you should become a writer, you detail so much that you drew me into your world and I felt what you were feeling, but on a side note I know the feeling of someone hovering over you while you do your job, I have my own business and it is so annoying for people to do that.
@@LIK64I do write frequently. I have a few projects, but ya know… Im a Narcissist. If it ain’t perfect, it’s worthless. 😂 Im my own biggest critic. Thanks for the encouragement.
PS: I LOATHE having people standing over me. Lol. I’ll be digging up a busted water line in the yard and the owner is breathing down my neck, talking incessantly. Like, damn dude grab a chair, make yourself comfortable. Want me to grab you some lemonade? Shit 😂
@@teresacamp5739 Losing control like that is humiliating and shameful. I pretend nothing happened, hoping that if I act normally, they’ll let it slide and won’t bring it up. 😅 Please don’t make me talk about it because I legitimately don’t know. I’m like the Hulk, I just get angry sometimes.
@@brandonmcalpin9228 I hear that…and I also can’t stand people standing and watching me do things.
Reframing it helps a lot, but can be hard, especially in the moment. So, a lot of work outside the situation helps.
Neuroplasticity =emotions+repetition…so every time you have that emotional, visceral experience repeatedly and replay it in your mind, you’re further entrenching the neural pathways. Yikes. It can be undone through finding positive emotional experiences, thoughts and repeating (that’s how we undo our patterns from early on, the wounded programs and conditioning).
When we are so self focused (I’ve heard “morbid self pre-occupation” as a very on pointe term) and already have so many automatic negative thoughts, that are critical, cycling…that when another person is around, watching, we can project that into what we believe they are thinking. Often with our ignorance/arrogance, cognitive distortions, combo, we are totally off on what others are meaning when they say things, or are watching us. We don’t even pause to question our own negativity bias, that we might be hearing/perceiving criticism where there isn’t any.
Often, the other person has no interest in criticizing you, the job you’re doing. They are usually interested in the problem getting fixed, getting their money’s worth, finding out new info (I know people who follow plumbers, electricians, etc, because they are really curious about how it all works). Most of the time, no one is thinking those nefarious thoughts about you, or your performance. Sometimes people have been ripped off, taken advantage of, so they’re less trusting…and that’s where learning to not take things personally is so, so powerful. It’s rarely about us. Toddlers brains are egocentric…we can grow past that.
I love Don Miguel Ruiz’s 4 agreements, one is not taking things personally. Is that hard sometimes? Yes! If we do the deeper work (emotional regulation and processing exercises daily, reframing, healing our core wounds, reprogramming our subconscious patterns, and developing introspection and metacognition), we can be in those challenging situations and be way more relaxed and empowered.
Oh, also, when in the moment…have you ever tried to take a break and just admit to yourself that you’re feeling criticized and judged? Have you ever just told a homeowner that you need some space and want to do your best job, and ask if they have specific questions, concerns? Often, our resistance, fighting, believing a judgment is happening, makes us unable to connect to others well, or perform our best. It sometimes becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Where the homeowner was merely curious, interested (we warp it (unknowingly) as critical) and our energy shifts (it always does, no matter how we try to suppress it). That energy, disconnect, frustration, leaks out…and might cause actual criticism from the homeowner, or us to mess up a job!
The self awareness about how you feel is well described. I wish you all the best, and hugely empowerment and a healthy self relationship.
Thank you for gently walking us through this painful issue. This is information I can keep and use towards healing.
Very insightful and comprehensive, thank you.
Hello hope everyone is doing well and keeping healthy physically and mentally. I've watched a lot of video regarding this issue but non gave me better understanding like this. I truly appreciate your kind words and explanation of this disorder. Thank you.
I appreciate your precisely language and your reference to other materials. Keep this great work. I'm learning a lot :-)
Nice to see you again Dr.
Thank you kindly
Please upload more regularly if possible. Best channel by far on narcissism
Thanks for letting me know. I have been making some changes in my schedule that will hopefully low me to post more frequently. 🙂
Very insightful! Thank you for bringing in academic research into your videos. It’s very helpful to know the context.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for your informed, compassionate content, especially in the face of overwhelming trends in the opposite direction. Clinical knowledge, which is necessarily designed to understand, perhaps even treat, conditions like NPD, are indeed not equivalent to apologetics.
Woah! I took notes during this video and it was so helpful. Thank you so much! 💓
Glad it was helpful!
14:00 Not excusing the toxic behavior. Thank you very much for the good information. We do need to protect our rights, physical, and emotional safety. That is part of life.
Brilliant Dr. Mark!
Brilliant ♦️
Thankyou❤️🙏
Deep, very well expounded
WOW! Connects the dots & answers my 'why?' Thank you! I've been practicing 'don't take it personally' for years, but when outsized rage comes out of nowhere making no sense, why must be asked. I thought (& was told for years) it was all my fault. Now I know.
Great channel. Thank you for something different. Subbed
I like your cool, calm delivery of info with the visual accents/ clarifications. Great video, very helpful.
Awesome, thank you!
So very helpful in understanding this. Again, thank you!
Fascinating! Wow. And so well said. 👌🏼 such a clear and well spoken video
Brilliant analyses 🎉helpful to understand. Thank YOU. I want him to heal, without me being exhausted. In his mind he does not need any change.
Very good and helpful🙏❤️
So good!💪💪💪
Amazing video!
Profound! Thank you, I welcome the addition in this clip of addressing the feelings and responses of those suffering narcissistic rage in their relationships. I was finding your work hard to bear because, while I could recognise your truth, it made me feel guilty for leaving my marriage. I wished I could have heard your work before I left. I had no knowledge of what I was dealing with. The narcissistic rage was so difficult to bear, along with other behaviours. The resulting grief of leaving however, is almost unbearable. I could always ‘see’ the beautiful person he was meant to be, but never could be. So painful.
How I wish I could somehow reveal this to him, ‘wake him up’. But I’m dreaming. I have to move on.
Thank you, this truly, deeply helps my understanding of what played out in my marriage over 10 years.
TY. I finally understand.
Great vid 👌🏾
I cannot sympathise with people who intentionally and purposefully take out their internal anger and issues on others to make themselves feel good. It's sick and should not be condoned. The reason is simple:They can control their behaviour when it suits them!
Try self directed kindness.
@kuukuyankson2033 - "they can control their behavior when it suits them!"
And many clinically depressed people can force themselves to smile when they are at work or school. The ability to superficially change behavior to meet social expectations is not proof of mental health.
Thank you, doctor. I now have a better understanding about the physiological underpinnings and inner dialect of individuals associated with this multifaceted disorder. Individuals who have traits of npd are extremely individualistic so as to appear normal, but when a constricted situation appears the subject becomes confounded and disrupted by their inner dialog that will manifest in outbursts of rage.
Very precise explanation. Thank you 😊
You’re welcome 😊
Yes , this helped me get a much better understanding of the NR . Thank you .
i recently got diagnosed with vurnable narc and your channel is helping me so much . thank you
I'm so glad!
Spot on!
EXCELLENT ADVICE REGARDING NOT TAKING THINGS PERSONALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EXCELLENT ENCOURAGEMENT!!!
BUYING YOUR BOOK!!!! GONNA SERIOUSLY NEED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can you help clarify the statement that it is pathological for adults to "continue using other people as self objects" (extensions of the self)?
I have been under the impression that it's a positive trait to expand your self awareness to include others (as the loving kindness mediation practice in Buddhism teaches, for e.g.). It's part of empathic awareness and a protection from a delusional sense of self importance. Also, humans are social creatures and as such, part of how we all define ourselves and who we are in the world takes into account the feedback and interrelationships we have with other people. We also change and grow in response to experiences and relationships - we can have a stable sense of self in an integrated sense, but that self can evolve.
My understanding from your other videos is that the difference for narcissists is that they don't have any integrated stable sense of self at all and require feedback from others to help create a sense of integration that is otherwise missing - but my assumption is that everyone needs some kind of social engagement for a truly healthy identity. Am I misunderstanding your statement? Or do you believe that an ordinary person deprived of all human contact for a prolonged period would not experience any impact on their experience of their self?
Also, the way you describe narcissistic rage sounds like a reaction that non-narcissistic people might also have in extreme circumstances where they are actually being threatened or abused. Is the difference that narcissistic rage is disproportionate to the stimulus?
Thank you for your content - it's so helpful for understanding.
I'd like to know this answer too!
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I have been watching your videos for a while now and it has helped tremendously. I haven't been diagnosed yet. I feel inferior most of the time and my anger comes when i feel attacked, which is pretty quick. It goes after a few minutes, but it hijacks my ability to think from a compassionate stance. Dr. Mark I am on the path, but how do i put this aside to connect better to others? It is a problem and the anger is reflexive most of the time. I am positive everyone feels a form of anger and frustration in highly emotional situations. I just desperately wish to have a better connection with others in life. To move forward to the better self. And to not be so damaging and invalidating to those who choose to be around me. For people who suffer very traumatic abuse. I feel for you. I apologize for everything you suffered or are currently suffering. Dr. Mark thank you, I truly felt I was beyond help until I found your videos.
hey, um everything you said. I feel the same way. And i dont want to be this way. It really does prevent us from processing your emotions in the heat of that moment. Would you want to connect and maybe we can work through it for both of us. If not its okay aswell. Hope you find you way
@@Giga3D811 if you want to leave a message with your preferred platform to message, I would happily talk through whatever emotional experience you have. I recently started therapy and come to learn I have ptsd, high anxiety, adhd, and no telling what personality disorder. Also bpd(borderline personality disorder) and covert narcissism are so similiar that even therapist get it confused so do with that what you will.
My mom definitely doesn't know other people see things differently from her. She's admitted that many times. It's partly why I'm convinced she has NPD.
The rage turned into domestic violence. I will NEVER have anything to do with him again
Wow, I had reached these same conclusions about a certain individual on my own, but I hadn’t known that these are classic behaviors of a narcissist. Your explanations are so clear and well presented, it is most helpful. Thank you so much. I would just like to add for those who are the object of narcissistic abuse or rage it is my opinion that it would be seriously ill advised to open yourself up to the narcissists energy with empathy. The last thing you need is to draw that energy into yourself. In my experience and therefore personal opinion, their outbursts simply need to be witnessed at the very most, certainly not taken personally or allowed to alter you in any way. The only person who should be doing that is the therapist.
You got it right!
Fascinating discussion !! I’m learning about this in reverse I went through it for nine months not knowing what it was but but knowing something was terribly off
Now that I put the rationale behind everything it All now makes perfect sense to me
My gut reaction at the time was to get out of this relationship as fast as I can and it turns out that was the appropriate remedy
Thank you
I hope that I can find someone like you to help me in treatment as the abused party. Your understanding of how NPD affects others is incredible. I have compassion for those with NPD but I have more for the recipients. I had never heard of this personality issue until a fews years ago and have endured the effects. The damage that is done is almost unbelievable. Thank you for your channel!!!!
Thank you so much for your videos. I think you provide the very best content about NPD. I also believe in having an understanding and empathetic approach towards mental illness while keeping boundaries. Helping and staying safe at the same time is a difficult balance to keep. Your advice to not take someone else’s reaction personally and to validate the person with NPD’s feelings is very helpful. I think many people would love to learn more about validation and how to validate someone’s feelings and experiences. Also, thank you for providing an explanation of the rage’s mechanisms which is absolutely necessary to understand in order to stay in an empathetic position. Understanding what is going on within the person with NPD is essential, but not enough. I think that many NPD loved ones are desperately looking for hands on advice on how to handle the symptoms of the disease in a healthy way. It’s hard to figure out how to support our struggling loved one and staying safe at the same time.
Thank you again for your excellent work and I can’t wait to watch your next videos
Thanks for watching. 😊