What's the Difference Between Paint and Coatings?
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- čas přidán 23. 04. 2024
- Coatings are one of the most important tools in the fight against rust.
Even within the field of corrosion engineering, coatings are a major discipline with a large body of knowledge and expertise spread across engineers, chemists, inspectors, and coatings contractors, all to extend the lifespan and safety of our infrastructure.
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Can you make a video on plastics getting into the rain water and how to filter it?
Had to get one of those substation Ts as soon as I saw it. My only complaint is that it's only available in one color. Still can't wait for it to arrive.
Why is your video on cathodic protection not in the corrosion playlist?
Edit: 👍
@@WanderTheNomad Fixed! Thanks for letting me know.
I can tell the enthusiasm here (more than usual). For whatever the reason is, there's always ups and down so let's keep it measured maybe?
In my 40 years of working with steel , I've found that when you accidentally spill paint on something it tends to stick forever, opposed to purposely trying to paint it.
Like your clothes 😅
Right so weird that this is right!
Steel just knows it... 😆
Within 5 minutes thee paint melted the bottom out of the plastic cup I used, 7035 grey all over place.😅
That’s because most painted surfaces are smooth. It leaves little caves to stick to. Most floor surfaces are rougher and have more caves so it tends to creep into it. When you wipe, it’s harder to clean up paint from the caves that the paint creeped into.
lol too funny. and so true
This retired paint chemist says thanks for explaining this in a way that people not in the industry could understand. Ever thought about getting your "rustomatic" an ASTM approval? The current tests are in sealed boxes, for reasons you have yourself discovered. Again, thanks for highlighting this little-known, but important, field. Take care.
Do it :)
Oh neat. I work in an automating plant and its neat hearing him talk about paint. I do QC work from primer coats to base coats and to clear coats. Most clear coats we make have a UV blocker and we use a UV light and white printer paper.
BG
Do chemists realize the people who use their products are complete idiots?
Needs to meet the sealomatic
1:10 "High performance coatings systems for corrosion protection" sounds like something a bucket of paint would write on its resume.
Best joke of the entire comment section
Maybe the coatings were really just the paint we made along the way
As someone who has served on Submarines, poor surface prep is 95% of why paint fails, particularly when the surface has flash rust or someone didn't feather the edges of the old paint, giving the paint a seam. The Navy manual for paint and preservation gives a detailed rundown on how to paint, down to how you should dip the brush in the paint.
as someone who paints submarines for the navy you are 100% correct
The quickest way to discover all the fine details of any process is to read a military instruction manual for it.
Oh that's really fascinating actually, I'd be interested in reading one of those manuals, I bet it'd help a lot with overall painting projects
@@AKindOfDog they are all online!
@@tristenbyrum1567 Can you give the URL's? Or search terms, please.
I was a paint and coatings chemist for nearly 40 years. Grady nailed it in this video - no errors that I noticed. By the way, the collapsed bridge at 3:02 was the Fern Hollow Bridge in Pittsburgh, where I lived and worked. But no, I didn't paint the thing.
You must have worked for PPG. They're one of the top companies in the world when it comes to paint and glass. It's a very old part of Pittsburgh history, too.
@@heroinmom153 No, a privately held smaller company, but we cooperated with PPG on a few projects. We might have been small compared to PPG, but we painted 51% of all the railcars built in North America a couple years running in the 90's. Those were the good old days of generous performance bonuses.
paint: paint
coating: thick paint
Pittsburgh Testing Lab....?
@@Blox117, you got me laughing sir XD
So this is the episode on watching paint dry
YES!
And you washed it huh? Lol
How did you like it?
@michaelalshuk1702 yeah they sure washed it!
Underrated comment
My parents wanted me to paint the handrail on the outdoor staircase. I really worked it over. First steelbrushed to remove paint and rust, then a primer and a coating of black ship paint. It was still in a good shape 22 years later when my mother sold the house.
"Hun, could you please take the trash out?"
So for this project I first needed to secure the egress route from debris and small animals. 12 gauge chain was adequate for Captain Muffins, and a chair wedged under the door handle secured my little sister. Next I cleared the route with a rented pressure washer...
@@greenredblue "My parents wanted me to watch my little brother over the weekend."
I had been reminded to take care of dinner. I really worked it over. First I got my trusty four-and-a-half meter Yuki Neox Legend Surfcasting fishing rod, and took the little rascal down to a river inlet not far from our house. It took some effort, but I got the kid to catch his first golden trout. Next I showed my brother how to use tinder, flint and steel to build a small fire. I then constructed a makeshift spitroast, and we cooked the fish.
He still feeds himself this way, 22 years later. He never came back to my mother's house.
@@paulstein8854 "Could you vacuum the rug in the lounge before we get back from Aunt Carol's on Monday?"
This would be a rush job, so I had to improvise a bit. I usually get acceptable results from my Minuteman X-250, but only after the thirteenth or fourteenth pass. Definitely not within budget. Fortunately, I'd already been tinkering with HEPA filters and jet engines, and had a prototype that would more or less be up to the task. Pretty much all of day one was spent on permitting, insurance, and the court-ordered neighborhood notices..."
i love this joke format, god bless@@greenredblue
... but the realtor didn't like the color, so hired some hack to paint it grey, right?
I’m a chief officer on an oceangoing container ship, I always tell my guys surface prep is of upmost importance. We use coroseal and 2 part epoxy, but if it’s not prepped right it won’t last long in the very unforgiving environment. I’ll definitely use this to teach my guys of this! Thank you!
Ive been in the coasting industry for many years and never thought of those ships needing painters
@@kuntrryboy7078 The people who paint the earth really got the ocean covered too.
Sneaky paint companies.
Grady,
I spent my career as a naval architect and marine engineer working for tanker operators. We had full-time corrosion engineers that monitored the ships and studied the changes in coatings.
I remember them testing coatings in distilled water rather than salt water. It turns out that distilled water is harder on coatings than salt water. We used pure epoxy paints for potable and fresh water tanks. In general, if coatings did well in distilled water they would work well with crude oil or salt water.
Surface preparation is everything when it comes to coating performance. In coating ships we started in most cases with a near white, SA2.5 finish. Coatings, whenever possible, were applied in a dehumidifed atmosphere. We used not only our own corrosion engineer to oversee the coatings, but inspectors from the coating manufacturers. We hired the manufacturers paint inspectors and had them report directly to us to remove pressure from the shipyard.
As for primers we used weldable primers such as Nippe Ceramo, as well as zinc chromate and inorganic zinc, depending on location. In cargo tanks we used two coats of epoxy paint the first coat wss applied directly to the prepared surface. Coats were of contrasting colors to make seeing holidays easier.
It should also be mentioned sharp edges are the bane of effective coating. Paint flows away from sharp corners leaving the surface exposed and a place for corrosion to start. On old bridges or ships with riveted construction there's an inherent problem of corrosion between plates of steel. When surface preparation is done you can't blast between the plates.
Bob
Thanks for those insights - very interesting.
super interesting thanks!! some videos on this topic would be interesting, I wouldn't have thought that distilled water would be the strictest test, and I'm having trouble imagining the chemistry involved there...
@@bruce-le-smith My guess would be that distilled water is very accepting of ions to dissolve into it. Water dissolves a lot of things, and regular water you encounter has tons of stuff in it. With distilled water there's a lot of potential left open.
I love that "it's not the shipyard's fault if we literally hired the manufacturer of the coatings" 😂
This makes me wonder if distilled water is safe to drink...
The Forth Rail Bridge really was painted continuously for decades, until a new, longer lasting coating was introduced ~20 years ago
well... workers' wage ex ain't it? why employ someone for everyday when you can subcontract just one time to re sub the old coating...
Came here to say the same. ( I stay a few minutes away from the bridges)
The Mackinac Bridge likewise was continuously painted, according to the bridge authority at the time. I'm not sure if they still do, as it has been a long time since I've been through there.
@@PrograError The subcontractor would use a large crew, when they continuously prep and paint they only have a crew of 2-3 workers so the time to surface prep and coat all sections of the structure is several years and equal to the life of the coating. The life of a coating is not only about the formula, but the environment and importance of the structural component that it protects. Sea water and tropical sun is more harsh than clouds and fresh rain, which is less harsh than a high latitude arid climate. Critical joints may need recoating twice as often as the bulk of the structure to ensure minimum corrosion while a few flecks of rust may be acceptable on the bulk of the structure.
@@PrograError Tbf, back when they were paintin it like that there was also a sayin about how the government wud "pay folks to dig a ditch and pay other folks to fill it in"; which is to illustrate the idea of creatin jobs even when busywork bcuz of this weird system we cwll capitalism.
Nowadays theyve done away with that concept and just blame folks for bein poor and dont even want to offer a tithe to them anymore.
As a pipeline corrosion tech, I am loving this series. It is always tough to relay the importance of surface prep or the correct coating with management that just want to do it cheap..
For us, we call coatings for underground structures and paint for above ground.
The CP video was awesome for a visual of 70% of my job. When we deal with hundreds of pound of anode material to protect 10-15 miles of pipeline, people have a hard time understanding how chuncks of metal and current protect metal. It is truly fascinating to see!
NACE certified this response😂
The CP video 😳
CP...?
Uh..
@@jjbarajas5341Yes, the Cathodic Protection video that was published a month before this one.
you should be locked up if a CP video is a visual for your job😭🤬
I worked at a shipyard on the great lakes in the 1970's. The ore carriers (or lakers) had little rust on them because of good upkeep. We occasionally got to work on ocean vessels that had rust everywhere. I asked one of the mates why they didn't keep the rust down, he stated it was cheaper to build a new ship in 10 years then to constantly fight the rust. Didn't make sense to me.
Saltwater is quite a bit more corrosive than freshwater.
Back in the good ol’ 1970’s when organotins (tributyltin) were still allowed to be used on ship hulls.
@@janedoe6181 Isn't/wasn't TBT used against fouling rather than to prevent corrosion?
The technology to protect ships from rust was not widely adopted till much later. It many cases it was not invented yet. The average life span of a ocean ship use to be about 15 years. With advancement in radar, communications... and relatively peaceful seas, ships are surviving much longer. Now rust prevention for ships is with worth investing in.
@@tz8785 When it's mixed in the paint it does both.
I am an aerospace engineer who has worked with coatings, epoxies and composites. And I also had a long time Summer job in a paint store and on a paint crew. I learned the lesson about surface prep from my job on the paint crew (the family had been house painters for a few generations). Even "decorative coatings" serve to protect the underlying structure. The crew that I worked with had painted houses in our home town for decades, and the duration and protection afforded by the house paint was directly related to the quality of the surface preparation (cleaning, sanding, and later a chemical bonding agent was used), as well as the quality of the paint and the number of coats. Even in the span of time I worked with them, I could see houses that had been painted cheaply and quickly by other crews having the paint deteriorate in a few years, whereas one with our quality job might last for 15-20. The protection against deterioration of the underlying structure was also evident: well painted wooden houses more than 100 years old were common, whereas houses that were left with poor coating, could start to deteriorate in a few years.
biggest problem is that surface prep is often annoying and difficult unless the object is a flat surface with no obstruction
Houses where I live are almost always wood, inside and out, and while I’m no expert I’ve certainly seen examples of improper surface preparation leading to issues with painted surfaces, exterior ones in particular. The most common ones are, unsurprisingly, not making sure the wood is sufficiently dry before painting and, when re-painting, not scraping off loose old paint.
How much variation is there between cheaper vs expensive paints? I am about to repaint my interior and determining what to get is difficult due to the huge price range. Any recommendations?
@@Eric-dr5bj The well know dearer paints are not that much dearer and with the time you spend doing the job a little bit more expense surely wont hurt.
@@ragnkja The USDA Forest Products Laboratory did a paint test in the late 70's, early 80's on exterior test panels (fences/house siding more or less) to determine if the newer latex paints could hold up as well as the traditional oil bases paints. They painted test panels in oil primer/oil top coat, oil primer/latex top coat, latex primer/latex top coat, latex primer/oil top coat and then left them to age for 7-15 years while periodically checking on them. The test had a radical and quite surprising finding that no one expected. The only variable that determined the durability of the coatings after the test period was how soon the test panels were painted! All panels painted within 48 hours of being erected held out well regardless of the paint combination used. Panels that were sunbaked and exposed to uv rays for 14 or more days before painting had all failed and were peeling badly. The test determined that UV damage to the woods fibers before painting cut the life of the paint in half (or more) and that as little as 14 days exposure was enough damage to do that. There were only minor differences between the various paint combinations.
www.paint.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/jctSEPT01-Williams.pdf not the same study I read but same results.
Painting your home is often about protection as well. Bare drywall and wood are highly permeable surfaces that aren't resistant to water and generally should be painted for protection as well as looks.
This is doubly so for outdoor paint.
Actually coating wood is only a semi good idea.
Because wood is hygroscopic a small crack in the coating can be fatal. Because once the moisture gets inside it can't evaporate, creating a wetspot where fungy can grow.
And in addition to providing pleasing cosmetic appearance, painted surfaces are much easier to clean (IMHO).
Are Americans afraid of bricks or concrete or what am I missing?
@@SuperDeinVadda Laura Kampf's house is a pretty good example of this, I think. 100 year old timber frame, completely rotted out from moisture trapped in the walls.
Also my landlord's house that I rent taught me a lot about wood rot - something that happens when you let your "friends" play handyman.
@@Realkeepa-et9vo What does the country have to do with that?
I recently refinished a very old pistol that had a rough duty life. Stripped it down to polished, bare steel. Then, coated it in corrosive chemicals that flashed rust all over it, then dipped it in boiling water to convert the iron oxide into black oxide. Had to repeat the process about 10 times to get a beautiful, dark coat of bluing.
Chemistry is always baffling and truly amazing. I'm an Industrial Mechanic(mostly robotics), I fancy myself as a fairly competent mechatronic engineer as a hobbyist, but if there was one subject I wish I was smart enough to study and become an expert on, it'd be chemistry. You chemists are the real heros.
I am an inspector for a civil engineering company in Alabama, and I recently got involved with inspecting Water Tanks during the sandblasting and coating phase. The Tnemec product data sheet that you showed was the EXACT type that the Contractor used in my job! I always learn something new from each episode you put out. Loved this video and always watch your content!
I went to Huntsville Alabama spacecamp when I was 15!!!
Before the Forth Rail Bridge was coated with a coating made for offshore rigs, they used to paint it every 6 years and it took 6 years to paint so they were always painting.
that's both interesting and somewhat depressing haha
I suspect it is as much a matter of economy as anything. They could repaint in a week, but they'd have to bring in a contractor with 100 painters. Or, they can have one (or more) maintenance guy or gal who has various tasks, but the predominant one, and the one that is assigned to do when other tasks don't have priority, is to paint.
I seem to recall that they had a crew of six. They were also constrained by the use of a basket that would hold the crew as it progressed around the structure
I’m pretty sure if engineers designed a similar testing apparatus for use in the industry they would also call it the Rust-o-matic 3000 in spite of what marketing wanted to call it.
If only marketing would let engineers choose the names, the new-new-final-v2-world would be a much better place
@@Mkrabs lol they're engineers they'd call it an astm b117 salt spray chamber or mil-std-202 etc. and get back to work.
Having seen this, we would need to call it the Rust-o-matic 9000.
Rustinator of course
6 months later I'd come out with the Rust-o-matic 3001 and take all their money.
35 year Industrial Painter here. Great video!! I’ve been a Industry Instructor for the past 12 years now. I’ll definitely be sharing your video to a few group pages.
I used to work in a shop that refurbished construction equipment and I started out in the paint department doing paint prep and worked closely with the painter as his sort of assistant at times, learning a lot about what he does and why. Parts of this video showed clips of people doing various parts of the job of coating infrastructure, buildings, and ships, and in a many of those you see them using equipment such as boom lifts and scissor lifts. Another layer to this whole process is making sure those machines are in good working order, and a part of that is the coating that protects them from the same elements as the infrastructure in question, for the same reasons. We took great care and pride in our work on both the paint and mechanical sides of the shop because we knew the safety of anyone using that equipment was in our hands. A lot of this video included things we made sure were right as we were doing our jobs to ensure the folks doing things like maintaining our infrastructure were able to get the job done as safely as possible. Of course, some of these things are monitored far more closely and to a tighter standard when you're doing something like coating a bridge, but definitely interesting and cool to see how similar the underlying focus of the jobs are, and how one supports the other. The paint job looking good is great and all, but the coating being properly done is the primary emphasis. And if you do the second part right, the first will follow.
Sorry, just saw some specific equipment I know inside and out but havent worked on in a while and combining that with the topic sent me down a memory hole lol
I can't remember if you've already covered this but it would be interesting to see your take on the new safe containment structure that has been built over the remains of Chernobyl. Apparently they have to have a forced dried air circulation to prevent the structure from rusting because the radiation levels are too high inside the structure to paint it manually.
It is safe; they just went super overkill to 'contain' it
That forced air circulation (like the ones used in bio labs) is to prevent radioactive dust from escaping not to prevent rust.
@@SgtMars while that may be true, it can have other benefits beyond the intended or primary purpose.
@@kylelambert8322 ok but if the primary purpose was to prevent radioactive dust from leaving (because it is negatively pressurized instead of positively) then what does that have to do with the whole “prevents rust because it’s dried air” thing? If that’s not even a reason for it to be around, while it may be an unintended effect, if it isn’t the primary purpose, what good is it?
@@TGears314 What he meant is, the air circulation thingy could be taken advantage of other than just preventing radioactive dust.
"The Mighty Mac", the Mackinac bridge connecting lower and upper peninsulas of Michigan is one of those structures that has nearly continuous maintenance. Of course in the dead of winter, with freezing and blowing winds, it's not 'year round'. The inside/outside of towers, the cables, the deck steel, and approaches all need periodic work. At 5 miles (8 km) in length, it keeps a work crew busy. Fortunately, no saltwater though. :)
We have a balcony with iron railings, and re-painting them is always a chore, because indeed at least 80% of the total time for the job goes into preparing the surface. After a few years, the spots we hadn't properly sanded and de-greased will mercilessly become visible.
I got rid of mine last summer for that reason. I liked the style but it's too much of a hassle to maintain. I've replaced it with wood railings with aluminum bars.
I do blade repairs on wind turbines and had a conference call with engineering trying to figure out if we needed to feather out our paint on a 1 foot external repair. I had a rough idea of why we used 3 layers of different coats but this fully explains it.
They're made of steel and not carbon fiber?
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 oh no they are made of fiberglass with a carbon fiber spar.
Love the content Grady. If you’d be interested in chatting with a NACE / AMPP level 3 coating and corrosion expert, and a NACE Cathodic Protection Tester, I’d be overjoyed. So many people don’t realize how complex our infrastructure is. Everything that we use to build modern structures, use materials that degrade without protection. Seeing the conditions that a large chunk of our infrastructure assets are in, is very concerning. Over the next 10 plus years, mark my word, you will see more flint Michigans, more bridges and buildings collapsing, and worse. Unless something changes. Too much corruption and greed.
So much infrastructure is taken for granted until it fails and people wonder why
I wonder if he took a coating class he explained most of the basic knowledge of SP & Coatings? if not good job on the research & explanation. And same here I'm a certified coatings inspector/ coatings engineer in the shipyard industry.
@@heavyinkprinting1367 excellent man! Love to hear it. I handle superyacht coating projects within the US and abroad, in addition to bridges, overpasses, water and wastewater treatment, structural steel / buildings, water towers, pipelines, above ground tanks, etc. if it involves coatings, gel coats, metals, FRP, we are on it.
You're right, Grady, you can make watching coatings perform interesting. My favorite tech channel btw.
I really enjoyed the video since this is what I do and teach every day. Some comments on what is discussed in the video:
1. Coating failure figures are close, but also should include application as well
2. Testing method you are using is called a prohesion test where it's dry/wet cycling. This is definitely good and the industry uses salt fog chambers for ASTM and ISO testing. Also to get more accurate and repeatable results we do a scribe in the middle (bare steel cut) and measure the rust creepage from the scribe. For inorganic zincs, it's typically half of a regular epoxy system since cathodic passivation helps the test results.
3. Replica tape is what the industry standard is. We use a point detector and now also use 3D mapping on the profile as well. Ultra high pressure washing is also becoming readily used for maintenance as well than just abrasive blasting.
4. Holiday/spark testing is to detect pinholes but also for low-thickness areas of coating since we set it at a certain voltage. Typically 100 volts per 1 mil of coating. DC testing for coatings and AC spark testing for very thick and reinforced membranes/thermosets/plastics.
5. Coating people come from all walks of life which is great with the diversity it brings. AMPP/NACE is a great organization for resources and standards that I've updated and help created over the years.
Grady you’re one of the best teachers that I’ve ever had the pleasure of learning from. Thank you so much for making your videos so accessible and so interesting and informative. This video, along with the first two taught me so much about corrosion. You’ve taught me about weirs, culverts, potholes, flood gates, and that’s just off the top of my head. I really appreciate you!
i'm a complete stranger to the engineering world, thanks to this man i'm discovering a whole new universe
I used to work in the patents department of Morton International back in the early 90s where I learned more about coatings than seemed possible, and had to explain summary claims at Chicago area consolates in person to attest applications in front of clerks that had no idea of the subject. A handful of countries required that someone show up in person to recite claims and potentially answer questions before a patent application could be filed from another country. Of course it was just a weird formality from a long-ago era, and I'm sure it's gone by the wayside by now.
This is a very good video. Most contractors when they first come into factory construction don't understand why they need rigorous sand blasting work. What is missing from this report is that it does not show the mill scales layer on hot rolled steel products. And that the primary function of sand blasting is to remove it.
There are things that get painted continuously. I did my apprenticeship as a painter at a flower mill for Con-Arga Foods in Saginaw TX in my 20s. The guy who got the gig played in a band with me and hired the entire band as his painting crew so we could work around gigs easier.
We painted the entire mill every year to prevent corrosion and flower dust build up. Raw flower is the most explosive substance I can think of matching some atomic blasts. We had to strip and acid wash everything then repaint it all which took a year. Once done we's start over. It was cool but we had to go a mile up road to even smoke a cigarette or anything because of how explosive the place was.
*flour
@@lizj5740 (facepalms)
@@haydenbsiegel Sorry. Sometimes my inner editor just takes over the keyboard. ;-)
@@lizj5740 It's all good. I wrote it wrong like twice too so... #fail lol
This whole series is amazing. I'm in a team of materials engineers that is focused primarily on corrosion prevention. Anybody that wants to understand why we do what we do will be sent these videos. Thank you so much!
This channel IS THAT GOOD that I would watch you watch paint dry Grady! And happily listen to you narrate it! 😂
Electronic engineer here so not many forays into this file. But I think this is the sort of content that CZcams was made for: Informative entertaining and eye opening and as a person who believes no decent education is wasted, I feel that I’ve gained a little insight into something new.
Also you have proved that drying paint can be interesting after all.😅
I am a silent watcher for many years and rarely like or subscribe to anyone. But your entry phase made it actually clear to me that you deserve both because its true. Keep up your good work and content and take another like and subscriber
Industrial painter here with nace qc background -- you did a very good job on this video looking forward to the remainder of the corrosion series if you are doing more videos.
On a side note I am probably going to send this to the coatings training instructor as this video can be useful for training of new painter apprentices in the future.
I worked at a shipyard painting the hulls of boats during the summer of my freshman year of college, and I always wondered what the different layers of paint were. Iirc, we had to apply three layers of protective coating, and then that got sent to the more experienced guys to do the more precise aesthetic paint layer. We never did any of that calibrating paint thickness or surface roughness, the paints were well designed so any reasonable paint roller will put down a layer that fit within the painting specs.
Plus, those power washers to strip the paint and roughen the surface were no joke. They were about the size of a golf cart. Originally they used to strip both sides of the ship at once, till one time a guy's power washer fell below the bottom of the hill and hit the other guy in the leg. Went straight through his calf muscle.
That job motivated me to stay in school.
many young CEs watching this might think they don’t need to have a broad understanding of paint and coatings. I certainly didn’t. but you do need to. great video!
Outstanding series, I wish you had done some samples that were just dirty (not oily) in the Navy we had a saying for painting, "once for dust, twice for rust"
I was brought up
This video is awesome, thank you! I am a multi discipline inspector for a power plant and one of my areas is pipe and tank coatings. My company purchased me a brand new positector and all the attachments. I’ve been getting my self familiar with coatings and Cathodic protection these past few weeks so this video along with your catholic protection video served me very well. Thank you again.
Very well done, I had planed a metal roofing materal painting job. Now I can ask and speak more thoroughly to the contractors
Back when I was a Chemist in a paint laboratory, I was working on the development of various zinc rich primers. I had steel panels that were left outside in the South Florida weather on the test fence for about 8 years. They had an x scratched through the primer into the bare steel. The good formulations had a small line of very light surface rust along the scratches that was stopped from intrusion along the surface and penetrating the steel. Zinc rich primers are among the very best for stopping rust, but they "ain't" cheap.
It's interesting that he mentioned the three-coat system. One of my other projects was to develop a new and more cost-effective coating system for airliners. There was a very specific way the aircraft aluminum had to be cleaned, followed by a thin coat (wash coat) of Zinc Chromate primer, followed by a catalyzed epoxy primer, and a catalyzed polyurethane topcoat. The problem was not rust but adhesion to the tough aircraft aluminum, resistance to harsh de-icing chemicals, hydraulic fluids, jet fuel, extreme temperature changes, and the flexing and rippling of the skin of the airplane as it flies.
12:15 His Rustomatic 3000 is a good substitute for the salt spray testing chambers used in real coatings laboratories.
the only thing better than watching paint dry: watching coatings prevent rust :)
I worked for a very large company that made SCADA equipment for the electrical utility indusry. It's customer base was truly global in nature. A customer in Arkansas complained that the NEMA 4 class enclosure was leaking - which it is not supposed to do. Our investigation lasted several months, and we enlisted the expertise of the foam and adhesive manufacturing companies. The adhesive manufacturer, 3M, was particularly helpful and was instrumental in solving the issue. The gasket adhesive on he leaking cabinets was not compatible with he "surface energy" of the coating system used. It was simply a matter of matching adhesives to the surfaces they were intended for, and we never had another leaking cabinet. I would be interested in knowing about the engineering associated with adhesives and surface energy.
*supervisory control and data acquisition
I recently found the use of dry ice as a rust and dirt removal and was amazed at the quality of the clean and the application
possible uses
The Sydney harbour Bridge has a crew that is continuously painting the bridge still. Not just one end to the other, exposed sections need more frequent painting, but they still do it continuously
This "myth" came from a popular tv series where one of the episodes was about the Golden Gate Bridge.
One of the foreman said that they work continuously on the bridge. Painting and stripping being pretty much non stop. When they get to the end they start again from the beginning and continue with only one off repairs here and there where there's damaged paint outside of the normal painting. I don't know if it's true, but I clearly remember that interview.
I do too!
Now go look at the "Mackinac Bridge" in Michigan. About 3 times longer than Golden Gate. But fortunately, no salt. But freezing winters means the work calendar is somewhat shorter. So yes, maintenance is pretty much continuous, weather permitting.
Do either of you know which "popular tv series" it was?
My dad was a painter on the GG, it's not a myth from what he said.
@@Duiker36 Sorry I don't remember which. It was a lot like "How It's Made" but I don't know anymore.
Thumbs up for the paint drying joke alone!
This makes me think of stripping and waxing floors, and also, using epoxy resins. In both cases, preparation is what takes all the time, and determines the quality of the results.
Owning a steel boat, you quickly discover there is no such thing as paint. It is a Coating system and you see the pain all around on the dry dock where people just smear something on and have to take it all off again when it just isn't compatible whit the previous layer. ps: Well done on the Add at the end. You are the only one who gets me to watch to the end :-)
Can you do a series on preventing wood rot? I deal with this all the time and had a big impact in construction.
fastest wood rot is where soil touches wood in the top six inches of the soil, where oxygen and water is readily available. otherwise in the cracks between and under wood pieces, where wood stays moist. moistness always fosters mold growth and encourages termite and other boring insect colonies. water seems to always work its way through any coating because of the soft surface causing cracking and the wood stays moist under the coating layer. old timers have sworn to me that if you can build so that the wood dries rapidly everywhere after a rain, an uncoated piece of wood will last forever, the biggest enemy being wind driven sand or snow erosion and wasps/hornets chewing off the surface to build nests (but thats a big problem only after 200-300 years).
The same myth is said about the Sydney Harbour Bridge in Sydney Australia.
I grew up believing that this was true and also feeling very frustrated for the “painters”, having to turn around and start all over again.
I remember asking my father about it because it didn’t make sense to me that they would turn and repaint from the end that they had just finished - wouldn’t they have to walk back to the other side and start again from there?
I remember my dad took me to the library and he and I investigated bridge coatings. I was bored quite quickly but my father was fascinated - we both then busted the myth at future opportunities 😂
When I was younger and lived in a rented house, in a row of similar houses all with wrought iron fences, my neighbours would “paint” their fence with something called “harbour bridge” paint.
It was per ported to be the same as the product used on the bridge . It was a grey/silver coloured paint but it had many small pieces of metal included in the paint.
It caused the iron fence to have a textured surface and subtly sparkle in the sunlight.
At the time, my neighbour was absolutely convinced. I didn’t have the heart to say anything ❤️🙂
Purported, just so you know. I'm big on "as long as it's understandable it's fine", but some appreciate the information
They did use a zinc chromate paint for bridges
"purported"
not per ported
@@brianargo4595 This could also be a voice to text error. I get those all the time and don't always catch them.
"textured surface and subtly sparkle in the sunlight" sounds like what is known round here as 'Hammerite'. It gives a nice effect and if the surface has been prepared well (thanks Brady!), it lasts for years.
Here in the Salt Belt of northern Indiana, I apply a bi-annual coating of Fluid Film on my two Jeeps to prolong their rust-free condition
“Rust is the REAL enemy”✅
Do you use Fluid Film primarily on the underside or do you use it on body panels as well? I was always curious about that stuff.
@@soulfuzz368 I use it inside the door panels using a step drillbit to gain access discreetly if needed. A plastic cap will snap into the hole and give it a finished look. I don’t believe you have to repeat application on areas where road spray is not coming in contact with fluid film. I will usually reapply it to areas that get blasted by slush when the weather is dry and warm enough sometime in the winter. I buy it by the gallon and use my air compressor and flexible 360° wand for all the hidden areas. You can also use a similar extension on the rattle cans for really tight places, but bulk is the way to go.
@@erichimes3062 oh I see, thanks for the reply. I have always used cavity wax for this application in my career. I could see how the transparency of Fluid Film could be a real benefit
As a professional painter and super fan of the channel, I can’t wait for this one!
Excellent, as always! Informative and educational, without being dull - I could easily watch one of your videos if it was an hour long.
As for the Forth Bridge, It wasn't actually true, that they had to start repainting again as soon as they finished - but pretty close. To quote Wikipedia, " Such a practice never existed, as weathered areas were given more attention, but there was a permanent maintenance crew. In 2011, the bridge was covered in a new coating designed to last for 25 years."
It is a massively complex structure (typical Victorian over-engineering) and in a terribly exposed situation (North Sea estuary in Scotland!!), so, continuously painted, or not, this is still an amazing achievement.
I travelled over it recently, and it is a truly astonishing structure. You simply wouldn't believe the size and complexity of the engineering - almost entirely steel girders and millions of rivets! I just couldn't imagine painting that...
You travelled over the Forth Bridge? I was under the impression that it was used by freight trains only.
@@rpbajb All passenger services from Edinburgh to the north cross the Forth Bridge.
Wonderful series! Really well explained.
I would love to see more about coating types and their fillers.
One of the coolest I have heard of, is the glassflake filled costings used on oilrigs. These can last for decades as the flakes both gives an inert and impact resistant surface, but most importantly increases the distance water has to travel through the coating without increased to thickness.
I'm incredibly impressed by the work and investigation you've done for this series of videos is more than I've ever seen. Very high quality work.
It's really great to see how you involve your whole family in the creation of your remarkable videos. You can definitely tell that you put an enormous amount of time and creative effort into your videos, and you get right to the point. Looking forward to seeing more!
One of the neighbouring companies at work specialises in corrosion control, I'm kinda interested in knocking on their door now and asking if they haveay have a few minutes to show me around what they do. Thanks Grady!
You do a very good job of providing clear and interesting descriptions of so many things that most people take for granted.
Was told by a fellow about a small business owner of an old Automotive Automatic Wash.
The steel structure hadn't been regularly cleaned and painted for decades when the owner decided to have a couple of guys prep and paint it.
The fellow said that it should have had parts replaced because scraping just removed the loose rust and if it had been blasted alot of the supporting structure would have probably looked like swiss cheese. They used a very thick epoxy applied by brush which didn't get into corners and other voids like mating surfaces.
Needless to say within three months the epoxy was bubbling up in the worst areas. Basically the surface rust was held together with epoxy even as it became so bad it was separating from the rusted area underneath.
Also he said the cure time wasn't near long enough for the epoxy and the carwash was put back into active operation too soon and had water now being collected behind the epoxy causing even more bubbling and hence the new layer of rust under the coating.
This highlights the need for properly cleaning and coating at installation plus an inspection and maintenance on a schedule that fits the environment the metal will be exposed to.
I really appreciate your ad placements. They’re non-disruptive unlike a lot of other CZcamsrs.
I feel like every time I watch a science and engineering video I learn of a new field of work. It's like the R34 of engineering "if it exists, there's an engineer specifically for it".
This was fascinating. It seems like coating large steel structures is really hard work, not just because of the amount of labor required, but also the tight specifications on what will work well and what will fail prematurely. Respect to everyone doing this job!
Again, love the channel! And, thank you for sharing your family for your sponsor, I wish other makers did this, then just pushing an ad. As an EE and ME, I enjoy your views and enjoy the insite you provide to the engineering community!
As a Scot, as soon as you said "Popular Myth about bridges" I instantly knew you were gonna reference the Forth Road Bridge and it's painting. It is a cracker of a bridge btw. Not worthy of tourism especially compared to the mountains and whisky, but it's fairly cool if you're into engineering.
As a Kiwi who was this time 6 years ago finishing up a solo self tour the Western Highlands (incl Islay, Jura, Mull & Skye), I heartily concur re the mountains, the scenery, and the whiskies😁I was essentially doing my own Distillery Discovery Trail and managed to visit 29 distilleries. That might seem like an impressive number, but when the well informed (like yourself) know there are over 210 distilleries 'nationwide', I had barely scratched the surface substrate of the 'uisge beatha' topic 😆But since I'm into engineering too, I also did the Cruachan Pumped Hydro scheme ("The Hollow Mountain") tour, along with some of the other pioneering hydro schemes hidden in them thar hills.😁
I don't work in infrastructure at all. I just like learning anything technical or scientific and this channel is awesome. So, it seems to me that coating a structure is kind of like putting a latex glove on a hand. It forms an unbroken, sealed jacket around the structure to keep all the bad stuff off the surface. As long as that seal remains unbroken and affixed to the surface, it is really hard for anything to touch the surface and start the corrosion process.
You made a rather benign-sounding subject particularly interesting! Thanks to channels like this I look at bridges and other structures in a new light.
The forth bridge takes 4 years to paint, there have been multiple programs in hte UK interviewing the painting teams..
They have stated once they get to the end they go back & start again.
In the past 10 years they developed a special paint based epoxy that supposedly will remove this restriction.
Always learn something new watching your videos Grady! Nicely done
Would you consider applying your expertise to a series of videos on how to best plan for and manage erosion around the yard? Very similar to your other ground water videos, but very practical to us home owners that have to deal with it on our own.
Great Video i have been working as a "painter" for the last 3 years mainly painting ships and there are area on ships that have similar conditions to your salt tank except you cant blast them if you are lucky you can get tools to mechanically prep them withing 4 years they will be rusted again its a nightmare the external of the hull is the easiest part of a ship.
What a great video to open the eyes of many who have never been involved in the industry. Years ago starting off my pipefitting apprenticeship I was part of a large process piping project and spent time between fabrication and the "paint shop" where our fabricated pipe spools were sent for sandblasting and coating. Young and naive, I remember thinking how overkill the quality control inspectors were and being shocked at just how much time and money was spent on perfecting each step of this process. Of course with time and speaking with some of these inspectors I learned just how much importance it has and all the chemistry, engineering, and science that goes into it.
One of the more fun nerdy things to look up are different mixtures of metals. Everyone knows 316 and 304 stainless steel, but have you heard of hastelloy? Super Duplex? Some of these metals are almost indestructible. Terribly expensive though 😅
This armchair nuclear energy enthusiast has heard of Hastelloy-N. Used for the reactor vessel construction and all the heat exchange plumbing for the Oak Ridge National Lab Molten Salt (FLiBe) Reactor Experiment of 55 years+ ago.🤓
@@rhonda-my_honda_cb500x3 pretty typical to see hast C used where 316 just won’t cut it!
More rust content, let's go!
Stimpee collab when
A great overview of this topic that anyone can understand, outstanding work as usual.
I wish the videos had been around when I was in college and I hope they are being shared there these days.
I've do sand blasting and have been using ppg coating products for several years, love the process!
It will be a good test to just repeat this experiment but this time making a scratch at the center of all pieces. This way we can see how corrosion advances in diferent surface enviroments. BTW really nice video man!
Great video! But boy are you right when you say you're just scratching the surface. A couple other major difficulties of applying coatings that come to mind are relative humidity requirements and environmental requirements to capture 100% of the abrasive material during surface prep.
I love the amount of work put into the Rustomatic. Thank you for the great output!
I love watching these little experimental demonstrations that you make
my first serious job was selling paint and coatings. This was mostly to homeowners and organizations doing their own maintenance. Client education was a huge part of the process, at least for those that were willing to listen. I always said as a rule of thumb that you should spend more time on prep than on actually applying the paint. This isn’t always the case, but considering the number of people I saw that were wanting to apply paint with literally zero cleaning, zero sanding, zero prep of any kind, I felt that exaggeration was necessary to make a point.
Does a very well planned out and documented lab test: "it's not a lab test"
@grady
You could make grass growing into a fascinatingly easy to watch experience.
Been watching your vids for years.. plz keep up the great work!
When I see your Chanel it reminds me of interviewing for a tester position at the UL Listing lab in Chicago. Past eight years been living in SF. In da house my family has owned for 83 years! Great video!
Thank you again, Grady, for helping us laypeople know the difference between coating and painting! Great job as usual.
BTW, how often/frequently is the Golden Gate Bridge painted (uh, I mean coated)?
I'm 1000% into watching Brady talk about paint dry! Even as a home/boat owner rust is the bane of my existence. Thanks for this!!
p.s. I'm actually very surprised at how well the smooth and oily square performed. I wouldn't want that performance in a work setting, but as a diy homeowner those test results give me some hope! It's hard to think of a worse surface prep, but the film actually provided some protection.
JUST as I was HOPING to learn something that excites me!
Thanks, Grady!!!!!!!
I just started out in the coatings industry, and these videos have been really helpful for the learning process!
As alvays it was a great video. And the next one for the series of rust protection I suggest the anodyzing of the structures. like it is used for aluminium light poles or metal protection.
Channels like this and smarter every day give me that feeling I used to get watching real educational cool stuff when I was a kid unlike PBS or some other channel where they would have some short program about how something was made or how something worked or something of the sort that was real and actually taught you something it wasn't a Discovery channel series that had a formula I really love channels like this and I really hope kids are watching stuff like this nowadays
Just like pinhole and holiday detectors, there are adhesion test equipment which check the adhesion of the coating to the substrate.Something called a dolly is stuck to the coating and pulled out with a hydraulic puller. The pressure and the area of disbondment is measured.Prior to this a cathodic disbondment procedure maybe done by subjecting a sample to voltages which replicate the corrosion voltages in the environment. All this has relevant ASTM standards.
I'm super thankful for the content you provide us Grady. As a second year civil engineering student i sometimes feel kinda depressed reading online how dissatisfied people are working in this industry. This channel though restores my confidence in my major choice.
Keep up the great work!
In my past life I worked for a third-party testing lab that brought in samples of coatings to test using all kinds of standard test methods. Your explanation of this industry is quite good!
another great video! My only suggestion is that the practice of calling a thousandth of an inch a "mil" is one that has always been mildly confusing (yes, i know that in Latin "mil-" represents thousands). In the modern world of globalization, it can be dangerous, since many people use "mil" for "millimeter" as well. In the machining world (at least, the CZcams machining world) most people have been using "thou" as a less-confusing short name...
anyway, hopefully the advance of metric use even here in the US will accelerate and my grandkids (should they ever exist) won't have to deal with this particular set of nonsense.
Been in industrial coating and been inspection the last couple years . Spot on my good sir.
Thankyou Grady for going to the time and effort of making this brilliant video.