The Christian Reformed Church Fights Over Homosexuality
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Jon talks to Pastor Lloyd Hemstreet about the debate during this year's CRC Synod over church sanctioned same-sex marriages.
#crc #christianreformedchurch #homosexuality
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The Bible is clear. What's to fight over? I think we are finding out how small the Body really is, and has always been.
Impeccably put
Discussing it at the annual assembly is itself proof that the denomination if full of cowards.
Correct. Only a remnant of true believers exists in the many visible churches today.
Thinning the herd.
All those churches have tolerated apostates to continue in fellowship for too long. And now Satan reaps his share of tares......
Until the pastors who try to do these things are not only voted down but put under immediate discipline this will just come up every year
Yup.
You mean exclusion as heretics. Don’t use these watered down terms.
I’m getting the impression the CRC are going under fairly quickly .
They’ll be joining the catholics next !
Bravo to that young man proclaiming the full Gospel! The Bible doesn't just declare moral truths; it shows us our hope!
He didn't say anything. It was just platitudes. And the word "homosexuality" was coined in the 1800s. The Bible was written in 1st century AD. Homosexuality as we understand it wasn't a thing that Paul would have understood. Plus, his discipline wouldn't have had to do with the most basic human need as love. It was probably something stupid like drugs or porn.
@@NehmiPaul wouldn't have understood homosexuality after hanging out with the Greeks?????
@@Nehmi homosexuality was very previlent in the 1 century among the Greeks and in Romans. As Christianity developed it became more unacceptable. You are correct Ancient Romans did not use the word homosexual. However, this idea that because the word was not used back then does not mean it was not a thing. Just because the Bible did not have a word for it does not make it anyless sinful. The Bible is very clear on the subject. I was listening to Pator Voddie Baucham recently and he said something to the affect that when our culture does not agree with the Bible the Bible is the authority.
I grew up in the CRC. My father was a CRC pastor. He passed in 1975, very suddenly, at a young age. I'm so thankful he didn't have to watch this chaos going on, in a denomination, he was so proud of.
I grew up CRC, in the Netherlands and when I immigrated 51 years ago. So thankful our parents are not witnessing this. We left the CRC once they allowed women in office, about 20 years ago!
I grew up CRC in Canada. They have NOTHING to be proud of. Horrible Horrible people.
Great to see young people and other ethnicities standing up for Biblical truth in the face of a group calling for rejection of it.
Rather than age/generation or ethnicity/nationality (though they are related to this), the characteristic/demographic that most highly correlates to all of this denial of God is a particular political ideology, namely "Woke" neo-Marxist/Leftist/Liberal "Intersectional" or "Social Justice" IDpol (Identity Politics), which may be more popular among younger generations and some ethnic groups or sub-cultures or "communities"
@@mcfarvoit's boomers and Jews who were promoting the so-called "wokeness".
The father who felt he was righteously standing with his gay son was biblically a party to his son's own death. I'm in the same situation but I speak the truth in fierce love. But I'm born again and I seriously doubt that man is because coming into agreement with his son over the written Word is practicing idolatry.
Kick them out ... No room for disagreement on that. They are just going to wait and eventually take hold and you will leave. Do not give place to the devil. Kick them out.
Since when do we give the devil a chance to defend himself?
Why is it that the most relevant point is stated down here in the comments? This channel consistently disappoints with the hosts refusal to hammer home the obvious points like the one you raise here
Because he's a Baptist & most of them won't violate the 11th commandment - Thou shalt not speak ill of a brother in Christ.
@Razaiel If you are living in sin, the bible does not call you a brother or sister. Just because people say they are Christians doesn't mean that they are.
Homosexuals are NOT the devil
That young man was so eloquent and spot on.
And deep spiritual conviction of tge efficacy of the Church discipline process.
"This father did something hard for his son"
No. Doing something hard, would have been telling his son "no". That guy took the easy way out.
Exactly right. His old man is a coward
Who does he love more, his son or God? Someone should have asked him.
@@georgewagner7787 God has a Son, and He put the weight of those sins on Him on the cross. So to deny it now means not that God didn't cover that sin but that God did it for no reason whatsoever.
That young adult rep is myself..: didn’t think I’d end up getting mentioned in a CZcams video. Still stand by what I said 😂
Your response was outstanding! God bless you!
You said it too kindly. Get away from these cowards and don't bother trying to persuade the Devil. It shouldn't even be a conversation. Don't become an old fool like most the men in that room.
You are being groomed to be procedural and play nice. They want to make you play by the book. Tell them to fuck off.
Thank you for speaking, brother. My concern with the CRC (and a lot of Evangelical churches, particularly Reformed ones) has long been its abandonment of the hope of transformation. This paves the way to the Revoice heresies, not to mention full-blown gay affirmation.
@@christologian1518 "You are being groomed to be procedural and play nice." I'm stealing this for use elsewhere. Thank you!
The apostasy in the church is growing every day and it’s sad to see how people are being dragged away by Satan and their own sinful lusts and desires. “Depart from me you workers of iniquity. I never knew you. “
My wife and I left the CRC 30 years ago because of this issue then already. There was pressure to have churches accept homosexuality and ordain pastors as long as they were not practicing homosexuals. This was coming from the main seminary in Grand rapids.
The other issue was that the creation and the flood were not historical events.
They have been trying for a long time.
The URC was formed at this time.
Common grace leads to accepting higher and lower biblical criticism and neo-orthodoxy.
I am a member of a URC church in Pennsylvania. Most members came from a CRC church
Come back
The Remote Traveler No, that is not happening. We are in a non reformed church with a great pastor who is so sound doctrinally. Like alot of churches, my impression is that most churches have gone to soft and liberal. Been back to a few CRC services and just too man centered. Maybe not all, but liberals just keep pushing until others just give up from fatigue of arguments. Then the true Christians have to go. Same pattern always.
@@davevandervelde597 totally get that 🙏🏼
These people that deny the authority of Scripture have been doing this for a long time on many different issues. One doesn't just wake up one morning and says, "Today I believe in homosexual marriage". It's years of Pastors and Bible teachers not teaching what the Bible says clearly on these matters for fear of offending people in their congregations. This is how heresies begin. Women Pastors, homosexual marriage are topics that were left behind long ago and replaced by "God loves everyone, just the way you are". Calling people to repentance has been left behind also decades ago as churches have become "seeker friendly". This older man leaving the denomination should be addressed through Mathew 18, but church discipline has also been left as antiquated. The church is weak and impotent and mostly there to entertain goats!
I left the CRC 20 years ago. I joined them because of their creeds; I joined under the illusion that they stood for something that would transcend temporary societal pressures to change. I gave the 15 years and bailed. Tired of the constant fighting over things that were settled hundreds of years ago. I bailed on the PCA a couple years ago, too. Time is too short to spend it on infighting when there is a world going to hell! Denominations come and go: the Word of God stands forever.
All flesh is grass the flowers fade. But God's word remains forever.
This is exactly right. Denominations are not the church. Denominations are franchises. Do you waste your life trying to save a franchise. Get out and go somewhere that allows you to work for the Kingdom, not for a franchise.
AMEN!
@15:00........ so this gentleman wants to claim that it is unkind, and unfair to agree with the Bible when the Bible, calls something a sin?? What GOD says is sin is not up for an opinion on whether or not, you agree with God that it is a sin!!! And it is not a matter of interpretation. The Bible is quite clear. That homosexuality is a sin, and that is not what God intended for men and women.!!! THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR ....... WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
@15:00........ so this gentleman wants to claim that it is unkind, and unfair to agree with the Bible when the Bible, calls something a sin?? What GOD says is sin is not up for an opinion on whether or not, you agree with God that it is a sin!!! And it is not a matter of interpretation. The Bible is quite clear. That homosexuality is a sin, and that is not what God intended for men and women.!!! THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR ....... WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
Homosexuality was being pushed at the same time as women elders when I left the CRC a couple of decades ago. The only reason that woman elders passed, and the rest of the agenda did not, was sociological. It was the same people and the same theology, but if they moved too fast they would lose their members and their money.
We left for the same reason.
The CRC church I was a member of split over the women elders issue in 1997. We formed a URC church, which I have been a member of since then. It was an extremely painful time, but it was necessary.
I think this is so important and useful to cover more denominations and issues facing specifically American Christianity and our unified struggle and efforts. Hope to see more topics, relevant issues, and figures like this to join, share, pray for, and connect with one another, thanks again Jon!
Ther same thing applies here that does with the SBC, "Choose this day who you will serve." These people would rather be friends with the World.
Why do we pretend these people are even followers of Christ? Clearly they are not.
Cowardice.
How dare you judge me like that?
This was excellent! God bless the young man you had on your podcast, God bless the young man, who stood up and addressed the attendees, and God bless the man representing the Korean church!
Tell them to “go and synod no more”. (Sorry). 😂
As an atheist, if you can not tell the difference between a Christian and a non believer, then the Christian is not doing what is right.
It is called the is the world is transforming the church ⛪️ instead of the church transforming the world..
Encouraging, thank you.
Someone said that there are two types of 'conservatives' in church: the conservatives who hold to traditional Biblical understandings and beliefs, and the conservatives who don't want the church they attend to change.
From the discussion here it sounds like many of the Christians pushing for reform are the second kind of conservatives, in that the beliefs are less important to them than keeping the church in one piece.
Homosexuality is strictly defined and expressed in scripture as sinful, forbidden and abominable before God and the church must strictly warn against it, teach against it and rebuke reprimand and discipline over it. Godspeed. Jesus is at hand!
Man, those youth and Korean testimonies were encouraging.
Hearing these discussions among Protestants really points at what is lost when they reject the teaching of marriage as a sacrament, and the doctrine of the passions. If the church only sees marriage as a civil contractual function, there really is no ground to stand on to say who can agree to a contract and who cannot, which opens the door for these disagreements. If marriage is a sacrament, however, we have an established pattern of what a sacramental marriage looks like.
The second point about passions really resolved the issue for me as I learned more about Orthodox Christianity. Passions are inverted virtues. We all have passions as a result of the Fall. Everyone struggles with a unique blend of the passions as we struggle to grow closer to Christ. Lust does not get a special carve-out as an acceptable passion. That passion can manifest in many different forms and at many different intensities, but regardless of its manifestation, it is still a passion. "Sin" itself can be defined as identifying with our passions, rather than emptying ourselves to grow closer to our true nature. Identifying with, or even worse, celebrating our passions is what leads to spiritual bondage, suffering, and despair. We can overcome our passions through the grace of God, with much prayer and fasting, and through the other sacraments of the church.
I pray for our Protestant friends as we all face very confusing, tumultuous times. Lord, have mercy on us!
Protestants do believe marriage is a sacrament. We have 2 instead of 7.
I am one who left years ago ,lord help us keep our American church according to Word I like Kuyper
We Christians must stop calling people gay men and gay women. Just call people men and women. Sexual activity and attraction is not an identity, it’s an act and a behavior and a thought and an emotion. All of us humans have behaviors and actions, and thoughts and desires, and none of that makes us who we are. We are either a man or a woman. All other behaviors, actions, habits and thoughts, emotions and desires are merely things we do, or think, or feel, they are not a definition of our identity.
Amen.
I prefer to not corrupt the English language any more than it already is. The word "gay" is an adjective meaning joyful, the correct term for these people is sodomite. And it is they who have made their sin a central point of their identity, thus all the "pride" parades.
I am a lifelong member of the EFCA, which has a lot in common with the SBC Due to the promotion of the Enneagram, Yoga and other practices in the largest EFCA church in Iowa I see as idolatry, we finally left the denomination. I had been an elder in a smaller EFCA church and saw the drift but was assured that the larger church was more steadfast. When we left, we visited several churches and have landed at an awesome CRC church in West Des Moines.
I have had an "essentially baptist" mindset all my life. My maternal ancestors are anabaptists. The shift to a confessional church has been healthy for my family and we are trying to learn in the areas of difference. They are sometimes subtle and sometimes glaring. I am now a bit of an apologist to my friends and family who remain in creedobaptist settings. Most of the dispute appears to be from people unwilling to learn why the opposing view believe what they believe. People are afraid of the challenge that there might be a differing viewpoint that isn't sinful or invalid.
I am not dismayed by challenges in the CRC. Rather, I am encouraged that Satan sees the denomination as enough of a threat to send his message into synod. I have told the pastor and elders at this church why I left the prior church, why we landed here and they know that I will seek a new faithful church if they invite detestable practices into normalcy. Now I just have to get familiar with a few creeds that I have looked over. There used to be points where I disagreed with them, but now I can see that I didn't want to understand them.
This does not mean that no Baptist can understand why a Reformed Christian comes to a different conclusion, but most of the obstacles I had came to this point, so no disrespect is intended in any direction. Except to those who attack the church using emotional arguments while ignoring scriptural truth. I do not respect those people and I"m tired of pretending that I do.
What a bunch of people following evil.
If you are standing on the Word, there is no argument.
The simple way to resolve this is "What does the Bible say"?
I left the CRC 50+ years ago, as a young man... Sad to see the Church going full-out Woke.
Thanks for the conversation. I wrote substack on the wild week that was Synod 23.
Jubilee CRC, StCatherines, Ontario is most sadly acting way out of the bounds of confessional status.
Hurtful or uncomfortable feelings is not an argument for or against any church position. Neither are feelings evidence of anything.
Once a church removes the perimeters that establish and define Christianity, the church is done. Boundaries are essential in every aspect of life. Chaos when they are removed.
Since repentance of sin is a requirement of salvation, if we open the door to 1. Homosexuality is not a sin, and 2. Therefore, no repentance is required to be a homosexual Christian and 3. Therefore, a church may invite and allow anyone to be a member without any conditions, and allow them to practice whatever sin they want.
Homosexuality is identified in scripture as a sin.
The battle is between those that want to practice their desires and God's commands.
The church has a yeast infection gone awry.
I am deeply disturbed and disappointed that the issue of homosexuality and office bearers is even an issue. And to hear that the PCA may be struggling disturbs me even more. I have over the years have been a member of Reformed churches - the RCUS, OPC AND PCA. To hear this issue raised when the scriptures are abundantly clear saddens me. The CRC synod got it right last year with the confessional status on the issue. Those who cannot affirm the Scriptural teaching and the Heidelberg catechism have the option of leaving the church. We see the post modern, existential methodology effect as it makes interpretation of the Scriptures merely subjective. The Bible is abundantly clear.
10:21 - the claim that people who struggle w/ SSA aren’t welcome in the Church being claimed by media & the LGBTQ activists is simply attempting to redefine truth, yet again.
The sin is what is not permitted to be allowed, but those who struggle w/ SSA & know this is against God, repenting of this sin, are welcome.
Those apostates should be shown the door. "I have a different reading" is nothing short of blasphemy.
Lloyd is a faithful brother
I applaud this stand for CRC
I never understood the words that Jesus spoke when he said a Father would hate his son, and a son would hate his Father until I heard the old man say that he loved and affirmed his homosexual son more than he loved the word of God. What a sad state of affairs we now find ourselves in.
Jon thank you for this video. I'd like to know more about issues in the PCA. I am OPC but have attended PCA over the years and have friends who have pastored in the PCA
Mature and intelligent, thoughtfuland sensitive: thank you for this brilliant conversation.
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
This is extraordinary! Thank God!
So am I to understand that a whole bunch of people who claim to be Christians who have the Holy Spirit of God in your heart, and read the Bible, had to discuss as to whether or not homosexuality is a sin??? And there were actually appeals to try to make it be OK???? 😑🫤🤨😐 and that it took five years for the CRC to come to the conclusion that homosexuality is a sin???? SMH
This Is evil,and a sign of the end. Scripture says "Things will wax worse and worse. " if you welcome sin into the church, that's the end of the church.
No one knows another persons personal relationship with God!! I never needed a preacher or church to get to God!!!
They always tended to get in my way, the preacher & the 'church.' The bible claims that the Holy Spirit's anointing teaches us all things. I've found that to be true outside the buildings.
Having it at Calvin is the cheapest. Cost is the single most most important criterion by which Dutch decisions are made. (I'm Dutch, I should know).
The man's reasoning, regarding confessional status, is that if one does not agree with the confession, then to confess it is a lie, and this obligates not only actions but also beliefs.
He also used the word "opinion" to refer to a matter of fact about which one is either correct or incorrect, and that is not what the word "opinion" means. It would be illegitimate to put opinions into the confession, but it's not honest to use the word opinion to refer to matters of fact.
The PCA recently held General Assembly and we upheld and affirmed a statement against any church official (elder or deacon) that finds their identity in any sin or sinful bent, so any that identify themselves by what we know to be a sin/iniquity/vice/abomination according to the Word of God, and of course all of us should find our identity in Christ first and foremost! Any are welcome to attend or seek membership, but some things are fenced: holding office, the sacrament of the Lord's table, marriage officiation, etc. There is a place for proper discipline in these matters with professing/communing members that openly struggle with a sinful lifestyle. It makes no sense to seek a position of pastor or elder or deacon if you roundly reject the clear teaching of God's Word as one can read plainly in the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments.
Shabbot Shalom The Sabbath starts on Friday night at dusk. Keep it Holy Jesus did
CNN put a rather strange spin on that, proclaiming Father's Day honors to a man for dishonoring the Only Heavenly Father. Not that it's surprising or anything, but from a truthful standpoint it's a very strange spin to put on it.
But what is a father? What is a man?
I attend a small, USED to be, United Methodist Church, we disaffiliated with essentially a 100% vote to disaffiliate, the line somehow is kept blurred and is how this is STILL even unsettled, many say they're just going to "love everyone", as their default way to handle this, completely overlooking what is being pushed here,.. Romans 1, The Wrath of God, states "not only do they continue TO PRACTICE it,.. but ALSO APPROVE of those WHO PRACTICE IT",.. This is why they so unnaturally want to entwine Christians into APPROVING of their PRACTICE,. and it's not just that they are tempted by, we ALL have temptation we must resist and not practice,.. and we all will fail and anyone who says they won't are liars, but those that continue to practice such an abomination, AND those who APPROVE of those who PRACTICE such an abomination will also answer for it on The Day,.. I will not venture how this will turn out,.. First Corinthians 3:10-15 Paul says he has laid a foundation as an expert builder, and others will add to this, but they must be careful not to add anything other that what he has laid which isJesus Christ,.. He then names all the differing things, using material instances to exemplify how people will corrupt what he has laid, and then sates that what they have built will have to stand the Test of Fire on The Day,.. and if it survives, he'll get his reward, but if not (and it's my opinion we will ALL lose something) then he will suffer loss,.. BUT,..here is the good news,.. it says "they will be saved, but as one running from the fire", according to His Grace,.. Peace to you John 3:16
Hey Jon, Surprised you didn’t mention the Methodist split? Maybe because it's stronger down South? Man that's an example of how not to do it where the infidels took over and in some cases forced the churches to close and in at least one case the church building was sold for a Muslim mosque.
Thanks for your reports!
17:25 It means pastors will tell gay men that he cannot marry them, because of the denomination. But he may tell them that he privately sympathizes with them, thinking he is doing Christ an honor somehow, by appearing to be inclusive. And so those pastors who do this and think they can get away with it are honoring Christ (in their perverted minds), while dishonoring the authorities over them in the faith, which TRULY dishonors Christ and undermines God's authority in the end in the hearts of those gay men. It is a disaster that the Christian's relationship to authority in the Church is not taught. This is the blindside of the Christian today and the main way the enemy is tearing apart churches.
It is usually a child that descended into the alphabet soup that pulls the parents along.
A very well presented truth by the young man witnessing to the transforming power of the Gospel to change and wash and clean heart: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Very well to the young man.
Talk about the great deception and falling away. The end is near.
Ugh. You can't change your sexuality. These people are living in the Stone Age. Trumpers with thin sheen of respectability. They'll just drive more and more people away from the Gospel that is full of Christ's love.
The commitment to the multiple generations of families in the CRC is basically an idol for many. They can't see it clearly because they are too emotionally connected to the issue, but those of us who have been in the CRC without the same attachment can see it clearly. The CRC should have split twenty or thirty years ago. They could have saved everyone this anguish. So much wasted time, money, relationships, etc. dealing with these same issues over and over again. Give churches a choice, divide things up, and move on. It's just ridiculous how far the CRC has fallen and yet no one will make the hard decision and simply say, "It's over and it's in everyone's best interest to admit it's time to move on."
The tendency toward split and schism in modern evangelical christianity is not something to be proud of. Moving on when things are inconvenient is not the unity Christ calls us to in John 17.
@@Djessie11 The progressive infiltration of the CRC is so bad at this point that I don't see the denomination returning to biblical faithfulness. It's not just the CRC. The RCA has gone through the same thing over the past many decades. The problem with the progressive infiltrators is that they will never relent. They will continue to drag this out for years and decades to come. They only care about winning and they don't care if the denomination burns to the ground in the process. The biblically faithful and the progressives cannot co-exist in the same denomination and have it be healthy. It's not possible.
The split happened in 1924. The Protestant Reformed Chirches remained faithful to the Gospel. The CRC drifted into common grace and higher and lower biblical criticism.
@Djessie Are you in unity with God or with Satan?
@@ThomasCranmer1959 That's not the point. I believe it is cowardice to split and retreat from the very institutions we built as faithful Christians and leave them to liberal progressives to hijack. It's retreatist and cowardly and does not justly represent the church militant. The early Christians won the West over after centuries of death and horror at the hands of the tyranny of the Roman Empire, and yet we can't fight for our own institutions against people who don't even know what a woman is?
Why do we cave to progressivism and run from our own institutions, why don't they cave to us and run?
Was a member years ago. When they massively changed the hymnal (dropping father and masculine pronouns) and started allowing women to be elders, you KNEW the world was invading the church. My husband and I changed churches eventually.
lol
If they don't want to keep re-fighting the issue, bar its being brought up again.
If they keep bringing it up, that is what we will have to consider!
What the clips reveal and this is supported by our visual of the commentators, is the the objectors to the HSR are the old guard- the flower children. There is some hope in what we see.
Corruption is nothing to embrace. Be washed in the blood of the Lamb before it's eternally too late.
I'm wondering,
Where do churches base their belief that a homosexual marriage is Biblical?
How do they defend such position?
That's CNN's Jake Tapper and I love that you're so unfamiliar with that network that you thought it was Anderson Cooper.
Jake Tapeworm
How does that old guy get off chiding God’s “opinion” on homosexuality as wrong, let alone the rest of the people who obey God’s decrees
Unreal, right?! Insane
Traditional Christianity amounts to ppl challenging God's position on everything, whether it be sexual immorality, the Sabbath, eating the wrong meat, which gender is allowed to possess ecclesiastical authority, or something rlse. If a person were objective enough, they'd find out that this guy isn't unique. The arguments are different, but the same rebellious message is being sent: "i don't care what You say".
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 okay? While it maybe common, obviously, I'm not going to just sit there and take it.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 wrong meat? Care to clarify?
Don't fear man that can destroy the body, but fear God who can destroy body and soul in hell. Stand fast in the liberty where Christ have made you free be not again entangle with the yoke of bondage
The only fight is over the authority of the Word of God. When supposed Christians fall for the trap of believing that not all of the Bible is the Word of God, then man himself becomes "inspired" to decide what is God's Word and only man's opinion. Only then can man twist the clear teaching of the Bible to the point of accepting perversion as normal and acceptable.
Always the main concern we should have is... "hath GOD said?" That was how Satan fooled the woman and then all of humanity suffered because he cast the doubt into her mind. Read your scripture and KNOW what GOD hath said!!
Matthew chapter 7:14 straight is the gate and narrow is the way but there be few that find it. People seem to be going the long way around on some of these issues hint hint
I’ve been delegated to 3 CRC Synods. Wish I could have been to this one.
I left the SBC eight years ago. I joined an independent Baptist church. I learned more about the bible in six months than I learned in 20 years in the SBC. My relationship with Jesus Christ is real now.
Reading the comments “it’s about time, kick them out” and Lloyd saying we got almost everything we wanted clearly shows agenda. How did we get God’s permission to judge others? The 7th commandment has become the most important in the CRC but we have completed discarded the 4th. At one point in our history, those who worked on Sunday were not eligible to serve. 98% of CRC members will never experience the challenges of being born gay. It was time for us to leave the denomination when told we were unwelcome inside our church of 60 years if we can’t accept the confessional status of the decision
It is not just a confessional matter, it is God's Law for mankind.
Amen.
Where is the question here? The bible is clear. We are not to conform to this world!
It is not man's word...It is Gods Word... that is what transforms... when we change the Word of God to half truths or lies we miss God's intent...it is important to get the whole counsel
of God and that takes the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truths ... Blessed be the name of the Lord.
I very much agree with that last comment.
Quit fighting. Those who fear God and who honor His word. Those who want to obey him and live according to his word. Need to split. And quit fighting with those who go to church to please themselves into capitulate with wicked men and the world
@10:01........ but of course, they are welcome to attend church and hear the gospel and become saved and delivered. What they are not welcomed regarding is that their lifestyle is OK with God. THAT is NOT affirmed, and will never be affirmed in the Bible.
If the university has a famous gender studies professor that has taken aim at conservative Evangelicals, uts an indicator of the liberal drift over the last 35 years. They were left leaning back in the late 80's I would have been surprised if it had had course correction since then.
It sure is!!
What I don't understand is why are there still conservatives in the CRC. Why didn't they leave when they approved women ordination, as the URCNA did? I cannot think of the CRC as a confessional denomination.
I have met a number of lutheran people who I didn't know very well (mostly in the workplace), but as usual gave them the benefit of the doubt as I do all people who profess belief in Jesus Christ. Of course in discussions with them I never compromise on bible truths. Sometimes I'll remain silent with them when that seems more fitting to the circumstances.
Some of these Lutherans turned out to have sons that are professing homosexuals and I've seen these Luthans go with the liberal gay affirming congregations in the Lutheran community. When I ask them why they chose that route when there was an internal split over this topic, it's always the same answer, 'I did it in support of my son'. Their sons in these cases were not among the petitioners in their church, but most often atheist. It seems that they were making some kind of symbolic stand for their child.
Putting your family over the gospel, over Jesus Christ seems to be the norm with them. I've never had to make that kind of choice myself. I think I know what I would do. My guess that it's hard but that comes with the territory of being a Christian as I read my bible. Jesus did say He came to bring a sword and divide families.
This (association of LGBT+ as atheists) seems to reveal the demonic influence within the movement. We don’t see the larger movement pointing people into a deeper pursuit of God. Rather we see dominantly a ripping away from Scripture and a denial of the gospel.
22:45 Truth.. how far counsels get off track when they ignore the whole counsel of God. I am curious who 'protest' spoke after that youth leader read the Word.
12:18 exactly people come to a different conclusion as to what the Bible means. The difference is what does the authors namly both the human and God himself mean? This is the problem that has been infecting many churches of the last hundred plus years from the pcusa to the SBC and now the CRC for a long while, who gets to decide what the Bible says and means? The author? Or the reader?
Well simply we have to look and say do we do this with anything else? Just someone read instructions on a bookshelf and get to determine what it means for himself? Or what it means in the newspaper? Or what it means when parents write a child and note? Who gets to decide the reader? Or the author?
Do we get to do this with the declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights? Do we get to look at a speed limit sign that says 70 mph and interpret it as something different than the author intended that put up the sign?
I feel sorry for these people but it's nothing new. Remember people creeds and confessions statement of faith and slogans don't save and sustained. Only Christ saves and sustains. Only the Holy Spirit walking with him fills us and makes us new and we continually have to have our minds renewed otherwise we will slip into the muck and mire of men like these speaking who are opposing the ruling on LGBT issues.
May God have mercy on them
Bravo for Genesis 2:24 and the LORD JESUS own words in Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9 being affirmed and reaffirmed by Synod 2023. Congratulations delegates.
I have recently been surprised to learn that I have friends from other denominations who are also searching for a new church because of these types of issues. I am in SBC, and I just don't know what to do. I was even more surprised to hear that we were all considering confessional Lutheran as a possibility.
40 percent of SBC churches do not give to the CP. Some of these are SBC in name only, I currently attend such a church. My dream is for the pastor to finally get up and leave. If I could have found a non-SBC church which was not KJV only, we'd probably go there, but sadly all the non SBC IFB churches have an unhealthy view on the KJV.
@@jamescook5617 I didn't know that. Thanks for the information.
@@PoetiqueMs to be clear, there do exist IFB (independent fundamental Baptist) churches which are not KJV only, but those are hard to find where I've lived (Virginia and Alabama)
@@jamescook5617The IFBCs have their own (opposite) issues.
As an outsider, i have a question. why is their even talk with those who want to deny homosexuality is sinful. scripture is clear on this. they should all be excommunicated
My sister is a recent Calvin grad, so she's been kept abreast of all the happenings with Calvin wanting to split from the CRC, as well as overall drama at Calvin. They've been concerningly liberal for as long as I can remember, from even back when I was in high school looking for Christian colleges.
When I was staying with friend in the Netherlands, they went to a Reformed church....where the pastor lived in the manse with his boyfriend. When I asked how come you still go there, I was told he preaches good. I also left the CRC....I did not wait to be excommunicated, in my opinion it was none of their business why I left..... I just did!
@15:00........ so this gentleman wants to claim that it is unkind, and unfair to agree with the Bible when the Bible, calls something a sin?? What GOD says is sin is not up for an opinion on whether or not, you agree with God that it is a sin!!! And it is not a matter of interpretation. The Bible is quite clear. That homosexuality is a sin, and that is not what God intended for men and women.!!! THE BIBLE IS VERY CLEAR ....... WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
I am a bit of topic. Sad, but in our city (this year) the organization most visibly celebrating ‘pride’ are the United Church’s congregations even more than the secular businesses.
How can " a church " be bound by words of a man. Over the word of God's word?
This is a no brainer. It's biblical truth 101. There should be NO discussing this issue. It's sin period. Followers of Christ are leaving the institutional church all over the world. They are rejecting the hierarchy and business church model that is currently in place. The book of Acts church was a group of believers that met in homes, many mature believers spoke, ( not one guy in control speaking every week), they were relational and took care of one another. God is calling many out to serve Him and make disciples. With this said, homosexuality is not even an issue that should be considered as ok.
When the doctrine of inerrancy is abandoned, all sorts of stuff starts forcing itself into the church. From what I understand, the CRC abandoned inerrancy in the early 70s.
These problems exist due to the lack of courage by the pastors, I've sat in a pew many years and NEVER heard not one sermon pertaining to real life problems, and a course of
Action to combat it, the lords army has NO battle plane, just
Sun shine and unicorns, luke warm is something that comes to mind, we NEED bold
Courageous pastor that will
Preach unashamed biblical truth, like it or not there's a spiritual war raging outside,
And we need serious leaders
Not feel good sermons.
Were all sinners but the bible is crystal clear REPENT!
But taking PRIDE in your sins
That's a whole nother level of EVIL
R.B. Kuiper saw this coming over 60 years ago. His concern was over not onky the regression of Calvin University but the CRC. Some of the very things he warned about are happening today.
It's not only in the churchs,,but. Every were else ,, Politics. Schools, All they sre are doing redefining words, I remember about 3yrs ago being warned about what was really going on about this problem..
If your pastor marries homosexuals, you don't have a pastor. A shepherd does not invite a wolf into the flock.
Go Bud Light to Satan's delight!
I grew up in a " Dutch Reformed" church, later a U.C.C. Church, in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately my church (an inner-city church) has shut down. The church my Mom grew up in (and was married in) was also U.C.C, has reverted to the Reformed Church. I truly don't understand.
Years ago the CRC felt the need to branch out of its Dutch ethnic roots. They were correct in doing so. How ironic that that outreach was needed to keep its historical confession in place.