Proton Privacy: A Review to Determine its Full Potential!
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- Reviewing Proton's privacy ecosystem (Mail, VPN, Drive, & Calendar) to assess its strengths and weaknesses!
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00:00 Introduction
00:23 Proton Mail
02:15 Proton VPN
03:10 Proton Drive
05:16 Proton Calendar
06:05 Privacy & Security
08:48 Proton's Weakness
11:55 Summary
#Proton #privacy #techlore - Věda a technologie
What are your thoughts on the Proton ecosystem? Share them below!⬇
*And pst. don't forget to check out our Patreon if you want more reviews likes this:* patreon.com/techlore ❤
They have had to many accusations of being team glowie, so I don't trust them that much. I'd rather self host for 100% privacy
Havent theh collaborated with the fbi in the past?
My thoughts on proton is they shouldn't of suspended my vpn acount for just canceling my subscription after 2 months. I like proton but that was dumb.
Isn't Proton compromised after their newly appointed CEO who isn't or as privacy oriented?
I would actually like Proton... if they supported Thunderbird, were I centralize my multiple emails. It's a must have for me
Hi! We'd just like to inform you that the theme sync with the OS settings is now available!
Add separate task colors to proton calendar!!!
I love you guys!!! I recommend you to all my friends and family! Please make an Encrypted notes app!!! office suite would be cool BUT notes should take priority
What a gangster company....they listen to their customers....nice...im def gonna switch!
I honestly never thought I'd pay for an email and VPN but I've been a subscriber on Proton for years now and I'm not planning on changing. They've constantly improved their product range and most important, it simply works.
I am a Proton user for the past 3 months, and all that I can say is that I am super happy with every product. They put so much care and thought with such a high degree of polish and care into everything they do. It is such a joy to use Proton products. Can't wait for Proton Pass and some minor improvements to Drive.
would like to see a look at proton pass especially in comparison to bitwarden
which one is better
@@phr3ui559hey have most of the same features. BW does allow you upload files to your notes. PP has the identity protection. If you have ProtonDrive you can store your files there. IMO, Proton is Best
I’ve used and paid for proton since late 2020 and love it for my email and vpn. Yes I really want drive desktop app for use as a offsite backup for important stuff on my server, but can wait for that. Just glad I can ditch google and have custom domain support
I've been a Proton user since December 2022, and I love the ecosystem as a whole, but yeah, it definitely has room to improve. One of my biggest gripes is the fact that on mobile, dark mode works for everything, including the contents of the email, while on the web version, the contents of the email are stuck in a blinding white box.
I do use Proton Drive, but nowhere near as much as I'd like to. How am I supposed to use up my 500 GB of storage when any large file uploads tend to fail or are extremely slow? I'd love to use it to bulk store photos, but the photo viewer takes forever to load. Would love to use it to back up files, but there's no desktop client. Not even being able to attach drive files to emails really sucks too, I was actually surprised that wasn't a thing when I went to use it.
Proton Pass seems like a great idea, but I was shocked at the announcement considering the state of Proton Drive atm. At least the SimpleLogin team is in charge of it I guess, so it shouldn't impact development too much. I don't see myself switching from 1Password though, because it's gonna take too long to catch up in features, and it won't really have the family plans/family features that most of the major password managers have.
That being said... I do think the suite as a whole is massive bang for buck. As I often say to people, I'm paying the same for a Proton Unlimited plan that I did for ExpressVPN _alone_ previously, and ProtonVPN is by far better and more private. Its app for Android TV works far better too. I could be paying for additional storage on another service, but I don't need to because Proton Drive is _okay_ for basic stuff. And I have a secure email, and SimpleLogin which I use every day.
A lot of the services individually are fine, but the price for what you get is just amazing, and because of that, I'm okay waiting for things and putting up with the imperfections.
All super valid, thanks for sharing your experience along!! -H
Ive been using Proton services for years now and love it!
I changed to Proton Unlimited with Mail, VPN (coming from AirVPN) and Calendar a few weeks ago and it works really good. (GrapheneOS & Nobara) I love the 15 mail domains you have under your main Mail you can use to forward from your old mails.
ROFL, this video is the very definition of I want to be angry with them but I can't. xD
Agreed with everything... I couldn't ever imagine years ago that there was going to be a business model that is able to sustain a Google-like suite of services that does not rely in gross invasion of privacy and mass data collection, but Proton, despite not being quite there yet, is proving that is can be done, and they got very far along.
Look forward to your review on their new product Proton Pass (password manager).
I have concerns about putting too much products in the same basket. Password manager is the most sensitive of all privacy tools.
I'd keep a password manager local storage only, and open source. Like keepasxc
Yeah, I'm a bit unsure about it as well because I separate Proton and my password manager on purpose so that if one gets compromised, or I get locked out, I can still access it using the other. It's probably not gonna work as seamlessly as the other password managers on the market too, and will probably lack family features.
I'm probably just not gonna use it, but I think it's great that it's gonna be on offer because some people like the suite, couldn't afford a password manager on top of Proton, or just wouldn't use one. It'll be a good opportunity for people who don't already have one to try one out.
@@1Iljo1 agree.
Always a wealth of knowledge coming from you. Thank you very much!
Hi! I’m the author of _”this amazing Reddit post”_ mentioned at 10:31. Secret’s out I guess :3
I’m glad to see you call this out and I’m quite happy about you shouting out my post. Because, yeah, it’s long and it took some time to make. But honestly, more because it makes me feel like a more sane person. As I feel like I had a surprising amount of pushback on this thread. Being called out for being an Apple user? People telling me that it’s not important…
Yet, it also had a surprising amount of upvotes relative to the size of the sub and I feel like it became a regular topic on it after. So there’s that and ultimately, I feel like I got my point across and it was understood. However, I’d like to nail down on my main issue:
_Feature parity is important to me because I am a paying customer. I pay the same amount as any other user, and therefore, if the service is offered on my OS, I should get the same amount of features as any other customer who pay the same price._
That’s ideally, of course and there can be exceptions for various reason (such as: Apple being notoriously hard to work with). But the amount of inconsistency when it comes to feature parity with Proton is way above the line for me. I called out Proton Calendar specifically because it’s barely usable on iOS and lots of basic functions require you to use the web version.
Funny thing: I’m currently using and trying Notesnook for my notes, which I strongly consider switching to. Something which was greatly motivated by your interview with one of the founders. And one thing that’s playing a massive role in my decision was said in the interview: *A commitment to feature parity on every platform.* Which is true. MacOS, web, iOS or Android, every feature is there. And Notesnook is far from being a barebones app.
Anyway. Thanks for the video, I learned some stuff and I think you nailed it. It’s the biggest flaw in Proton’s ecosystem and I’m glad you pointed it out. That and Proton Drive which is almost useless in its current state.
Glad you stumbled on this and thanks for making your post! I think healthy criticism like this for services we actively pay for and generally support is great to make sure they keep their services improving. That way new people end up with a better experience and aren't wondering why their iOS Calendar is barely usable :P
Not sure if you've seen it, but I actually interviewed the lead dev of Notesnook if you wanted some more insight into their service: czcams.com/video/I9ibGRNjK3E/video.html
He actually specifically covers feature parity at some point in the interview!
Anyway thanks for being active and glad to get more perspective on your post. -H
@@techlore I did see it. In fact, it’s that interview which motivated me to use their app! :D
This is honestly how I feel about the privacy scene in general. It is definitely private! But it's not as usable as I'd like for it to be. Gaining privacy still feels like there's a lot of other things here and there that I'd have to give up, in addition to being really inconvenient
Well their gmail import tool works great to me. Its even forward new emails
It's certainly not private in the way many customers assume they are. Proton relies on a lot of false advertisement.
@@boshi9 false advertisement? can you write here some that proton did?
@@furdiburd It's not false advertisement per se, but I would consider their encryption claims quite gimicky. It requires you to be speaking with another client who uses PGP, which pretty much nobody does or has even heard about. The encryption doesn't matter either because the provider for anyone who you email has your data. So they can use your email for whatever purposes if they so wish (including passing it off to the government, etc.) You're basically paying for empty promises.
@@ezioauditore7636 IMO youre just paying for the VPN. You get a mailing service with that, that doesnt read all your emails, nor does it use this data for advertisers. Gmail reads everything, so its definetly better to use Proton mail. Its true that it isn't as safe as most people think, but its worth its very low price at least to me
@Techlore Please never stop delivering top-notch content as always. Even a newb like myself, that learns very slowly this stuff lol, gets tremendous benefits from your material.
I think I'll be asking a few questions on a few of your other videos lol. I'm slowly going through them little by little.
Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching and just keep it up! -H
@Techlore Always thank you for helping and informing us of privacy issues and sharing your vast knowledge.
Thank you for your comprehensive and unbiased review.
6:36 from everything I see it seems good to me, and for the non power users in my family the only flaw will be not being able to attach things from the cloud app too a message or email; however we could just use another privacy based cloud app.
Great review! Wish they would sort out the feature parity issues, but I guess they're suffering from the fact that they're using many different tech stacks for each platform. Wish Proton would consider a Flutter rewrite for their apps. Most of the core logic could be shared across all platforms, making it far easier to keep feature parity. I'd love to help out tbh.
Once they add a desktop-sync app for drive then I'll finally make the jump. I'm really jonesing to get away from Google, but I need that drive-sync
Hi techlore .
I am using Proton as well.
I would like to know how different is Cryptomator E2E encryption client side comparing to Proton Drive? How they actually work in term of E2E
Proton is definitely the best or second best offering out there, and one of very few that actually stands against Gmail in terms of features and UX/UI. The only issue that has kept me from actually using it, is how closed it is. I understand why using a third party client requires a bridge to talk to the standard protocol, but not being able to sync contacts with any app or system outside theirs is very limiting.
whats the other one you would put above it?
@@Jzombi301 Not really sure if there's one I'd put above it, I was just leaving the door open to that possibility 😁
There are interesting contenders like Skiff (with similar limitations), and feature wise I much prefer Fastmail, but that one's not in the same privacy league. So... I guess we can call Proton the best right now.
For my work, I use Google Workspace. Privately Proton. Proton Drive is my main private cloud storage with offline folders in the Android App on my smartphone and Chromebook since some month.
They need some time to copy from Google. I'm a patient customer. For the drive client, they say that Linux has a much smaller market share than Win & MacOS. Ok, but world-wide, Android has a much larger market share than iOS. So why do so many function come on iOS first?
I even like the fact, they have their own clients (e.g. mail client), because of better integration into the ecosystem like Google. More convienient and efficient.
I really want to buy storage by itself. I would like more than 500 gbs.
Thanks for your video
I think Proton has a long way to go and development is not as fast as one would wish, however I still feel it is the first „alternative“ (meaning not one of big tech) services that could provide a more comprehensive user experience.
Whenever I use alternative services I always get the feeling that they are clunky, out-of-date and will never develop above a certain point. Developing multi-platform, scalable services is a huge task and you need a lot of manpower for it. I don’t know if 400 people is enough (I guess they have to grow further), but it is more realistic they can compete compared to other services with often only a handful of people behind.
I feel like combining Proton with Murena/eOS would be the total package as eOS provides maps and notes, two really essential things people take for granted
also something like google docs would be amazing
really the only 2 things that i would love to see implemented are the ability to switch a previously existing event to a different calendar in Proton Calendar on iOS, and a Proton Calendar iOS widget. better speeds on proton VPN would obviously be really nice too but they're fine for most things as it is now. i dont use Proton Drive because it feels like it's still in beta. i dont have many complaints with Proton Mail
My main complaint with the Calendar is mostly with the lack of Drive integration. I had a lot of appointments a couple of years ago which required a lot of paperwork. Attaching these files to the Calendar in Google Drive was a lifesaver for me. I've also gotten a bit sick of ProtonVPN. The linux CLI is absolutely broken and now I have started to have problems connecting on windows. Luckily I live in Australia so it doesn't make a dent in my speed (speedtest actually implies it makes it slightly faster lol).
I love ProtonMail and it does everything I need perfectly though. Another massive thing you forgot to mention is Proton subscribers have access to Simple Login, an email alias extension/app. This thing is amazing for those random crappy sites you have to sign up to. For example on my Firefox developer page I left my alias email exposed to the public and got flooded with weird spam in German. Bam, new alias, delete the old one, no more spam.
I should watch a whole video before commenting.
@@asdfssdfghgdfy5940 tbf he didnt talk much about SimpleLogin, but that's probably because it's still a different product and not technically part of the "Proton Suite"
I'm a Proton customer since 2020 and I use Proton Mail and Proton VPN only. The calendar and Proton Drive aren't really usable in my eyes. This is why I resort to Nextcloud for that matter. The Proton calendar app UI doesn't scale on the iPad and, as you mentioned yourself, Drive isn't really integrated on the variuos clients, in contrast to Nextcloud or MEGA.
There is a Proton drive desktop, accessed right through explorer. I access proton mail through Thunderbird. The very fact Proton does not use your files or emails for advertising, and is vastly more secure, wipes google and Microsoft right off the map. They follow the European guidelines with their products. Its a small price to pay
Proton has been excellent for me!
Huge fan. It's been great.
I have been using Proton for the simple fact that they are based in Europe and they value consumer privacy, however, if ordered by a court they can/will provide user info, logs, IP addresses etc. So I use it, but I'm really careful with what I do so I'm always using AnonSurf before logging in to anything.
Nice video.. I just recently 1 or 2 months ago switched to proton ultimate trying to eradicate as much google as possible.. Most of the gripes you have with the suite are exactly what my problems are. I really hope Proton will watch this video and take it seriously. One of the things I first noticed is that even though the e-mail app on android can be unlocked with biometrics and other locking mechanisms, all the others can't... They are just freely accessable if someone finds your phone unlocked. No logon required and no unlocking needed.. Just open them..
The fact that there is a no windows desktop syncing is a major one for me and really feels that Proton drive is half baked and more like an alpha/beta product..
You do a good summup of the others grips..
Proton Drive has the option to unlock with biometrics
As subscriber of PM... i find the service ONE OF THE BEST, ACTUALLY... and i not change for other... for no reason, for sure. I try ALL...
the simple thing they don't do is they display our Full email address clearly everywhere, like in the upper right corner of the email, or in their application. they should only show the username, or just the icon. or give us ability to hide it.
Maybe a bit nitpicky, but I personally wouldn't consider less powerful devices' inability to handle large files a limitation on Proton's part. As much as it might be annoying, it's not really a limitation proton implemented any more than something a streaming service advertising 4k video but 4k only being able to be run on more powerful devices. That said, it can't truly be unlimited since every file system format has a hard cap on file size, but that's usually in TBs for any modern one nowadays.
Right, it's not their fault. Which is why the real complaint was on the marketing of the feature. Where they directly claim no max file sizes for anyone regardless of the situation. -H
Come on Proton, get with the program!
Nice channel, clear info, thanks
Do you have a video about how to make your phone private i was watching a video someone said use a pixel phone and download graphen os but i was wondering if there are other options
A similar review of Skiff would be great!
4:18 do you consider that proton drive is better than Mega io?
I wanted to move to ProtonMail but they don't allow labels to be nested. That is a deal breaker, just that one thing but it stops me from organising my emails.
When I (politely) ask, on their forum, if they have plans to offer nested labels they delete my post!!
@@mainStream-user won't be able to expand and collapse the tree. Confuses me that they don't just support it or want to explain why not.
Re: removing email trackers for the Android app platform, this is what they told me 2 days ago:
"At this time, we are focused on completely rewriting the Android app due to "technical debt", in an effort to provide a faster and more stable experience. Until that is fixed, it is not possible to add new features. We are unable to share any specific timelines currently." So... uh, whatever that means. Grrrr
Loved it from day one ❤❤
I like this review. It feels like Proton, in some ways, has the attitude of pushing out features/products and polishing them up later. I can understand that, but it is rather frustrating as a user to not have seamless integration
I guess proton is not perfect for many, but for me it is perfect. I am happy to have a back-up I can manage and love the email & calendar. I use VPN sometimes too ...... all good.
Honestly, from the entirety of the proton suite, I'm only using the calendar aspect, because
1. I need a private encrypted calendar
2. It looked better than what Tutanota provided
Thanks for including mobile security rather than focusing on pc's!
When you choose privacy the trade of is always convenience.
You can't create a private and secure system while being convenient to use and affordable pricing. The more secure and private the less convenience you get.
except it's not even a convenience issue with proton is just straight inconsistencies in their development of their eco-system.
Which should raise flags for how they handle their back end. If their front-end development is this sloppy.
In the Calendar Android app, you can't search events (no search bar of any kind) :(
Hey Dude,
What about lavabit? Ist is use and recommended by Edward Snowden.
Would be nice Proton to create a desktop email client, better then MS Outlook
Been using Proton since they first launched. My one problem is with their vpn. Regularly when I pick up my iphone to look up something on the web it seems the vpn has been sleeping and needs to reconnect. Frustrating. Not sure how to solve this problem. Picked up Proton Pass yesterday. Have just used in on my computer. Super streamline when it works. So far just have one bank site that is refusing to let Pass connect with it’s login page.
What alternative cloud drives would you suggest?
Need a video on Proton mail vs Skiff Mail
I like the idea of the PROTON ecosystem, but there are 2 things that I need now in order to switch. I need a drive client for linux, and a bridge for calendar. I simply cannot use the proton calendar independently from my other calendars, I need to manage them under one application like I do with email. I know they are already working on the drive client.
And it would be very nice if they started working on simple notes and tasks apps to have a proper productivity ecosystem.
I know for a fact that people have been suggesting a tasks app with Proton, it's just a matter of when they add it. As for your other suggestions, Proton does have customer feedback. If you haven't used it yet I suggest it. You can search for those suggestions, vote for it and comment if you have an account.
protonmail.uservoice.com/
Hope this helps in some way! - S
@Techlore - Could you do a video on Skiff? It seems like an interesting competitor to Proton.
I hope proton creates it's own Operating System for Android/Windows for extra privacy.
Great review Henry as usual and whilst I absolutely agree with your points, I do think it suffers in the same way all Proton reviews do which is to compare on a service by service basis. Whilst Proton is consistently in the Top 3 services in each field if you compare them 1 on 1 they probably get beaten by 1-2 other great services individually (with maybe the exception of Proton mail which is best in class imo). However, Proton's strength is that it is building out a phenomenal ecosystem which I don't think gets the credit it deserves (I can't believe we still try to compare it to Google's ecosystem) and combined with the fact it is so entry-level easy, unless you have a higher than average threat model, Proton Unlimited should just be the stock standard recommendation for everyone. At $4 a month (if you buy on sale during Black Friday etc), it is actually insane value.... TLDR: Great review but maybe a tiny bit harsh on each service :) Your last comments were great.
Proton Unlimited was >$7/month (24 months) on black friday, never $4 sadly (I wish)
@@donluigi3589 Double checked. You are actually correct. My apologies, I paid $81.87USD but thought I paid in AUD so I converted accordingly. Still immense value imo.
We have just delved in to the Proton ecosystem and are still in the free tier, considering buying the Unlimited.
About your analysis, aren't you expecting too much from a privacy respecting product which also has a generous free tier? Or to put it differently, the data thieves have more money to improve their products!
Would love to give their new password manager software a spin too.
Is that in the making? Haven’t heard if it.
I’ve had Proton mail as a paying subscriber for about 5 years now. I don’t even use the bridge as it’s constantly going down. For the VPN it’s very glitchy many websites it just doesn’t work for and I constantly have to switch back to VPN Unlimited. The drive is all but worthless due to slow upload and download speed. The mail and calendar are good services. So you might ask why do I continue to pay if I’m not fully satisfied. IMHO it’s by far the best service even with the short comings. Hopefully they will improve.
Proton isn't all privacy just search yt.
i will switch!
4:58 is that a fly in the backround?
Part of the slow development problem, Proton is very lenient for their employees, which causes procrastination.
Before I spend my time on this video, is any of this paid? other than the mail, which Ive been using for years
I like them. I use their email and vpn. No problems so far. Their proton drive needs work give them a few more mins on that one.
if i could add emails that are not protonmails.. i would like to use it more, i hate to have multiple apps on my mobile phone, if i can't use something like fairmail, why don't they add a feature to use multiple accounts like disroot skiff etc :(? seems like they don't want to or it is just hard to implement~
Looking forward to your proton pass review but they will be years behind bitwarden.
5:20 What's "Dobby time"?
In general, using an iPhone is more secure and private than using android (and I use both daily so I can say that). So iOS first makes sense
I have android, and had downloaded proton mail etc on my Android phone awhile ago, one thing I wish is that I could add another account but oh well, such is life... I think proton is by far the better one over gmail and other VPNs etc, I have all the proton apps on my phone I still have gmail etc but....
What does four hundred staff do?
I assume everything I type is going to google, microsoft, or apple depending on the device I am using. It isn't unreasonable either, as your devices listen to you anyway. I don't understand how this can give you any privacy.
Proton Pass, I hope you review it, only Visionary users can use it for now.
I really dislike that you have to use their clients, web or native. This is one of the reasons I moved to Posteo. In hindsight though, I probably should have done a service that supports custom domains-mostly so it was easier to move if I needed to migrate, but the last couple of years have been fine.
Tittle should be: how to give your data to fed instead of Companies
Did you already checked Skiff email?
so any updates ? 8 months is alot for things to change
I was intreresting to change to proton but the problem its that they doesnt support to linux.
Summed up @ 12:23
Why can't they make this in a cross platform toolkit?
may be due to any pricavy issues? like flutter is owned by google?...
Bring 👏 us 👏 Proton 👏 Contacts 👏
I'm protonmail and von user, and I hate that they don't give attention to linux users, the most private OS but proton don't have a drive app and the vpn app is really inferior to windows app
i miss the old proton email UI from 2 years ago :(
Very disappointed that you did not cover ProtonVPN's lamentable service for Linux users!
Question?? Why would I want Proton to hold off on releasing a great new feature for my desktop until it is ready on my Android and iOS device? Give me the enhancment now. I don't understand why you would want to just wait for the other formats to catch up before taking advantage of the improvments. Edit: Oh, and saying that Proton has 400 employees and then comparing them to Google which has how many? Seems weird.
Would be nice if proton made an operating systems for Apple operating systems and android an desktop computers 😎😎
storage is the only limitation for free plan
Can you cover skiff?
It's on our radar!
weird, i have like 1gbs with protonVPN
Protonmail is the best.
proton drive now has a windows and i also understand ios client
They need a proton Keyboard app
XPR proton?
Would never use other than iOS anyway!
I like how they released a desktop client for windows but not linux... Like are you even kidding me! I will stick with nextcloud for now
Mullvad had a police raid few days ago 😨
ProtonMail domain support ist also meh (limited aliases) and you can't use it with something like a printer or NAS, unless you pay for their business plan, even though there is no reason to bar private premium users from this. Overall after using it for a while, I'm actually a little disappointed by ProtonMail.