Critical Drinker Doesn't Understand Rocky
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2023
- If you love the Rocky movies as much as I do then you want to talk about them and listen to others talk about them. But when Critical Drinker talked about Rocky in his "Why Modern Movies Suck" series I had a problem I just had to address.
This is why I think Drinker got Rocky as a man wrong.
I love the Drinker and wish him well. I just hope he doesn't come after me like Clubber Lang in a rage for poking him with a stick.
It's only fair to credit the men I mention in this rebuttal, so here they are...
Critical Drinker's Original Video on Why Modern Movies Suck
• Why Modern Movies Suck...
Critical Drinker's ChannelS
/ @thecriticaldrinker
/ @criticaldrinkerafterh...
Mauler, who I know will rip me a new one on EFAP
/ @mauleryt
/ @everyframeapause
This review contains elements of Boxing, Critical Drinker, Italian Stallion, Rocky 1, Rocky 2, Rocky 3, Rocky 4, Rocky 5, Rocky Balboa, Creed 1, Creed 2, Creed 3, Mickey Goldmill, Apollo Creed, Carl Weathers, Adonis Creed, Sylvester Stallone, Michael B. Jordan, Talia Shire, Burgess Meredith, Bianca Taylor, Tessa Thompson, Bill Conti, Adrian, Paulie, Pauly Pennino, Clubber Lang, Mr. T, Ivan Drago, Dolph Lundgren, Russia, Tommy Gun, Tommy Morrison, George Washington Duke, Richard Gant, Mason Dixon, Antonio Tarver, Andre Ward, Gabriel Rosado, Tony Bellew, Viktor Drago, Florian Munteanu, Mike Williams, Tony Burton, Pedro Lovell, Frank Stallone, Sascha Penn, Cheo Hodari Coker, David Winkler, Irwin Winkler, WBA Boxing, World Heavyweight Champion, Classic Films, death of a loved one, Philadelphia, Los Angeles True Love, Rom-Coms, movie reviews, Critical Drinker, Critical Drinker After Hours, Mauler, Mooler, Chartoff-Winkler Productions, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Warner Bros, Franchise, MGM, John G. Avildsen, Ryan Coogler, Steven Caple Jr., Yo Adrian, Rocky runs up steps, Philadelphia Museum of Art, Eye of the Tiger, Training Montage, Survivor 80s band, Rocky Marciano, Rocky Theme Music, South Paw Boxer, Southpaw, Rags to Riches, American Dream, Italian Stallion, Underdog, Rocky's turtles, cuff and link turtles, rocky's dog butkiss butkus, Dick Butkus - Zábava
The first Rocky isn’t a boxing movie. It is a love story about a boxer.
Here we call the series the best love story ever put to film.
Exactly
Uh what is wrong with yall
Well said 💯
"Rocky, please don't fight that alien on Mars."
"I gotta do what I gotta do."
"But there's no air on Mars."
"Yeah?! That means there'll be none for him either."
🤣 Fantastic! You must be an MST3K fan, amiright? Only a Mistie could be so cutting and clever.
Love it.
Rocky...IN SPAAAAACE!
@@hughsmoviereviews2418Family Guy skit actually. Funny how at the time Rocky 6 was seen as such an outlandish idea that shows would make fun of the possibility, and then it eventually happened 😂
Link: czcams.com/video/RDQSF1vUKS4/video.html
@@ZacV47 HA! nice! Never saw that one.
"you can't punch the meat rock"
"What about Paulie, he's havin sex with the meat"
I think you forgot a key scene in Rocky 5 when Rocky goes to the old gym and has the flashback where Mickey tells him he’s the reason for him to go on. He says little by little we lose everyone until we say what are we hanging around here for and that’s where we find Rocky at that point of giving up. It’s less giving up and more just being done and has nothing left to hang around for.
Kind of what I was talking about, but thanks for the input. That's a wonderful moment for the two characters.
Love that scene. Rocky V is criminally underrated.
Dumb
@@hughsmoviereviews2418 right but you should’ve shown that exact scene to further make your point. There’s cannon lines that say when you lose everyone around you and nature is smarter than we think. It’s not so much that Rocky gave up it’s that nature is telling him it’s time to let go. Then Adonis comes along and it gives him something else to see thru.
@@Chillin24Seven I agree I could have gone into further detail. But there does come a point when you've reached a 15 minute essay vid and have to ask yourself if you're being too verbose and if you've already made a similar point elsewhere.
Honestly, I could talk about Rocky for hours, but I had to make some calls. But I appreciate what you're saying. It was a key scene that could have hammered the point home.
I think the one scene that shows the heart of the series is a small scene where Rocky visits Apollo after their first fight. He asks “did you give it your all?” Apollo says “yeah” and Rocky says “thank you”
That right there is the perfect moment of why to love these movies.
A truly great scene. Simple, heartfelt, and really lets you know who these men are.
Years ago I watched his stuff, but his reviews eventually just became a movie is bad because its woke and a movie is good because its not woke.
I take a different tack in my own reviews. If you want more honest reviews with no political bias, then maybe I can provide that.
That's the pattern. Why so?
@@dagon99 It's not the pattern you cultist. Stop snorting the kool aid powder.
Exactly. He preaches the same crap in every video while complaining about movies that apparently preach too much political crap. I honestly think the dude is projecting.
I will die on this hill, literally no other franchise has a character who has remained as likeable as Rocky. I would genuinely watch a Rocky film that's based entirely around the running of his restaurant
My wife and I wish Adrian's was real. We'd eat there in a second and wouldn't ask him to tell us stories, but would just want to get to know him. Rocky is such an awesome person.
Rocky is a pretty good demonstration of what healthy, humble, non-toxic masculinity looks like.
@@rabd3721 Agreed
That would be a movie filled with lines that start with “Hey ya know there was this one time.”
@@chandllerburse737 it's impossible to read that line not in Stallone's voice
Rocky isn’t a movie about boxing, it’s a film about self respect
I think Critical Drinker is just milking the angry drunk character at this point.
Eh...You find a shtick that works and use it. If he's enjoying making his content and folks enjoy watching it, then I wish him well.
@Hugh's Movie Reviews it's why I love samuel jackson... he don't got a large acting range, so he sticks to his strengths... picking roles that are the same type of character
But it works almost every time
I've disagreed and felt like critical drinker too many times to think he has anything to add to any movie at this point... but I don't have the fight in me to make a big deal of it and so just stopped watching him. 😅
Lol "at this point"
He’s not doing it anymore what are you on about? What’s with all the hate?
I agreed with a Drunker until I watched your video, you actualy understand these films on a deeper level than surface "never give up sigma grindeset", I just realized that me pushing myself every day to get into art college is not only for myself but to make my family proud and prove everyone who belitled and ridiculed me including my father wrong, thank you for this vid!
I think there's something else that you and Drinker both missed - Adrian died of cancer in this story, and she tried fighting it with chemo. It was probably slow, drawn out and miserable, as death from cancer often is, and Rocky was there to experience every horrible moment of it. Rocky doesn't want to have Adonis watch him die like he watched Adrian die - that's why he lies and tells Adonis 'we're not family'. It's a misguided attempt to spare his new son figure from pain.
I agree completely. I have been through that with loved ones a few times.
I thought that was a given in the video, and I also didn't want to drag up old pain for myself or others, but you are absolutely right about that scene.
The fact that The Critical Drinker wrote novels makes me question my sanity. I’m not joking, he’s still writing his series to this day.
Try reading one. That will have you question your sanity. You know what they say about critics and frustrated artists? Yeah, that.
its always funny when his fans use "he's a published author" as a defense of anything dumb he says lol
@@artirony410 yep, especially when they’ve clearly never read his work. I do think he’s a decent critic, but sometimes ‘knowing’ what’s wrong doesn’t translate to being able to do it better.
@Art Irony It's because these people always say "Wah! You can't hate because you haven't created anything", but then when Drinker actually creates something, they go "That doesn't count because it sucks!"
@@jeremyusreevu237 isn’t that just a relevant “Well, you do better then”? That seems quite reasonable to me.
It is rather refreshing to see respectful disagreement where you provide information to support your argument rather than unecessarily critisizing the person (all to common). In this case the different arguments on each side suggest that the truth of Rocky's character maybe somewhere in between? Maybe it is me but I think real people rarely exhibit a truly consistent character as fictional ones are often expected to.
I dont have time to make a whole video but I do have time to type: Critical Drinker is an idiot!
Agreed Michael. Nice to see various different angles; hear them all.
I’d imagine societies have vast varying opinions and therefore anything said in a book, film or speech will be taken differently by each person. We all have our own history & path that led us here to our own perspective.
I know one thing his videos highlight, that’s a common theme in modern films that don’t gel with those born earlier. But that’s hardly news is it; look at grandparent generations and they’ve always berated youngsters music choice.
Have you looked at the comments here? Any respectful disagreement shown by him for Drinker escaped the commentary.
I dont think there is that much of a difference between the two frankly.
I know. As someone who is a fan of the Drinker, I am sick of stupid grifter channels like Organized Chaos that barely pay attention to Drinker's vid, and act like he's just this raging sexist. It's refreshing to see a channel be like "I disagree, but I still respect Drinker".
You’re 💯% correct in your sentiments about Rocky and what the Critical Drinker missed! Adrian was Rocky’s world, it was through her he had the strength to become the man he was, Rocky 2, 3, and 4 showed constantly when Rocky trained. I love the speech Adrian gave Rocky in 3; when she said: “…after the smoke clears and everyone is through chanting your name, it’s just gonna be us!”
That line meant so much since Rocky was so scared of losing everything, including Adrian if he lost to Clubber again. However those lines by Adrian gave Rocky the confidence to pull through. Yes Creed may have been a lazily rehash of the first “Rocky” but it gave him the push he needed to fight his cancer. Adonis was the perfect one to come fill the void in Rocky’s heart, the son of the man that went from rival to friend to brother!
A wonderful take. Family is the heart of a man. She was always Rocky's true heart. He may have had the heart of a fighter, but she helped him become a man.
After the smoke clears and dust has settled and the millions... and millions of the Rock's fans chant his name.
It was only after rewatching it last night did I realize where The Rock got that line.
Rocky literally needs help from a character or a direct motivation in all of the Rocky movies, makes sense that he’d consider “giving up” at some point in creed
Pal, that is just life. All actions have some sort of direct motivation whether they be purposeful or not.
@@Space_Ache Yep. And Drinker's refusal to acknowledge that demonstrates an immaturity and lack of experience. He still thinks he's in a Chumbawumba song.
It's so strange no one mentions this But; Adrian and Bianca are the heart of the story.
Yup, that's why I felt compelled to write this. Funny thing, but after I released this vid, even Drinker mentions that fact in his Creed 3 review.
I think Drinker had it right when Rocky was a young man. People change with time. In Creed Rocky is still Rocky but he’s mellowed out with age. For me Rocky was done better than Luke in TLJ.
I think this just shows why Rocky Balboa was so important to the series. A series about perseverance rings a bit more hollow when it feels like the main character's grit derives almost completely from his wife. Rocky's relationship with Adrian, while very beautiful, sometimes seemed codependent. We needed to see that he could rise to the challenge even without her.
Originally, Rocky wasn't "heroic" at all. He was a bum. He squandered his talent. That's why Micky gave his locker away. But Micky also knew that Rocky had "heart" and legitimately wanted to help him when Appollo gave him a lottery ticket. Rocky's hero's journey wasn't to greatness, but to self-respect. As the series progressed, Rocky became something of a cartoon character, but the central message of determination winning out over adversity was generally present.
Great take! What was your favorite part of the series?
Absolutely false. He absolutely rose to greatness. Terrible take.
@@hughsmoviereviews2418 Rocky's dynamic with Micky, of course. Burgess Meredith is simply fantastic throughout his run. Micky's visit to Rocky's run-down apartment is easily the best scene in any of the films. This, I think, is where Will Jordan might have gotten it wrong. He talks about Rocky making those around him better, but that's not really what happens. Rocky learns to value himself through loving Adrian, and Micky teaches him to optimize that value.
@@Tim_the_Enchanter The Mickey coming to Rocky scene is pure gold. And the scene where Rocky chases after him to accept his help, the way it's played without words, and how at first Micky pulls back like he thinks Rocky's gonna hit him, but then they respectfully talk, is...well it brings a tear to a cynical man's eye every time.
Just beautiful.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
When I got this assignment I was hoping there would be more gambling.
We won't go quietly. The Legion can count on that.
If the legion breaks through our defenses, I've got one bullet I'm saving just for me
As someone older who is lost loved ones in the past, I think you underestimate how men continue to grow and mature as they enter new stages of their lives. Yes, at some point we needed the love of a good woman to get our stuff together, but to think a man without his wife/sister/mom/daughter/partner can’t function … I am going to pass and agree with Drinker. In my case, I choose to live to honor those who stood by me, and yes there are days I want to quit or give up on life or the grind, but I find the strength to reinvent myself with no external motivation or person to be my source of motivation.
There is no Rocky 5. Moving right along...
Rantlers.
The greatest love story is between Paulie and his robot waifu.
Rocky was ahead of his time blessing Paulie with his AI waifu
It cared about his health! So much love! 😉
A tale as old as time.
Clubber Lang and his mohawk.
I made that she never made a cameo in creed smh
I disagree with the part where you found Rocky’s speech to his son in Rocky Balboa to be “hypocritical”.
Just before that speech, his son was complaining that the upcoming fight was going to make both of them look bad, especially since Robbie just started to make a name for himself. He had complained that everything he had was due to being Rocky Balboa’s Son, and the upcoming fight was going to make it worse.
Robbie was complaining that his father’s “large shadow” was keeping him from developing into his own person; in effect, putting the blame for his own failures on Rocky’s shoulders.
Rocky told his son what every child needs to know: you need to fight for what you want and not blame others for your failures (“you need to be willing to take the hits”; “that’s how winning is done”).
So while Rocky did have the support group, and they gave him the push he needed for success, Robbie needed to simply be set straight as to why he’s not the success he thinks he should be: he wasn’t “willing to take the hits”.
When Creed established that Robbie moved away, my guess was that he eventually took his dad’s speech to heart and was willing to go it alone “and take the hits”.
Interesting perspective on why Robbie moved away. Never thought about it that way.
Nailed it!!
Rocky's speech in Balboa was not hypocritical or unjustified in any way. First off, Rocky's speech is largely about not blaming others for your place in life...since that was what Robert was doing. In the first movie, you see Rocky refusing to join in on the bartender's hate for Apollo. In fact he seemed disgusted by it, even though he was in a miserable place himself and it would have been an easy cope. He takes responsibility for what he gets out of life, that's why Mickey's revelation in 3 was so devastating. Secondly, Rocky's son is estranged because of the son, not because of Rocky. He tries to visit him, invite him to hang out, etc. Robert distanced himself, and then shows up to cry about how his dad's ambition is affecting his own life. Rocky didn't need to be "hat in hand" in that moment, he needed to straighten Robert out. And last, we don't know how Rocky would have done without Adrian. His shot at the title was luck and happened regardless of dating her, and he went the distance despite Mickey telling him to stay down and despite Adrian assuring him multiple times beforehand he isn't a bum. He did it for himself. Having support is great but it doesn't make you great, you have to do that yourself. Lots of people have support and they don't go anywhere with it.
His speech in Balboa may be hypocritical to some degree, but as a father his job isn’t to teach his son how to be the same as himself, but a better version. His speech is very appropriate as a father to a son, giving him the lessons it took him so long to learn.
I agree wholeheartedly. I guess I didn't express my point as well as I thought. Thanks for the input!
Fun Facts: In the directors cut of Rocky Balboa it explains how Adrian really died. The Robot from Rocky 4 was having an affair with Adrian. During sexual intercourse, the robot accidentally discharged and electrucated her to death.
Then Rocky went full Rambo on the robot.
CREED following the beats of Rocky one is perfect for the beginning of a new era. And the way Rocky's character was handled was perfect imo
Rocky's speech was not unearned he quite literally got hit and kept moving forward, I hate that modernists don't think there is any substance to violence. Yea violence is bad but it makes us stronger and more appreciative of what we got
Ignore the people trashing this video, i thought the points were well made and added up to a coherent and believable interpretation of the story.
Thanks very much!
So the entire Rocky story is about "my friends are my power"?
*I always knew that Rocky was the best Anime*
Well yeah, adrian was there for him in rocky 1, in rocky 2 his family was the reason he went back to fighting, in rocky 3 when he lost mickey, he felt lost and didn't know what to do, until apollo showed up, in rocky 4 the whole reason he fought apollo was because of HIS FRIEND.
@@heretopissyouoff8439 and to keep woth the anime analogy the villain of the previous arc (Apollo) comes back to become an ally.
I really enjoyed this analysis of Rockys character and I'm not sure how Drinker missed this. Great video!
The unfortunate thing is the people who are in the comments just calling him a hack or moron because they were already biased towards hating him and just needed another reason.
I think Drinker was more leaning on the general public perception of what the Rocky character is, and the public perception of the Rocky character is molded more by 3 and 4 than it is by 1 and 2. This is also true for Rambo, where the perception of the character is more the action man riding a white horse and firing double machine guns in Rambo 3.
You are wrong. Rocky did the old man a favour by agreeing to have him as coach. He doesn't owe the coach his win. Because...Rocky lost the fight with Apollo. The point of Rocky 1 is that if given an opportunity you take it, and if you win you get respect. If you lose you still get respect because you agreed to fight against the odds. The point of the whole franchise is "going the distance." It means you don't care anymore about what rung of the ladder you are on, you are already at the bottom so you need to accept that you are not going to win but you can still lose less. It means facing up to the hard reality that you won't be fighting a fair fight, but who cares if this is your only option? May as well make the most out of the shitty deal you have rather than not do anything.
'Going the distance' in the context of running a marathon is when you see a fat guy trying to make the most out of the shitty situation and completes the race knowing he is coming last but choosing to complete it anyway. (rather than stopping after everyone else has crossed the finish line a long time ago) That's basically Rocky in a nutshell. So Critical Drinker is correct. It's not about those around him (that is the drama that needs to be there as movies need characters to interact with the main one so you understand his life better: he is poor, he is struggling, and he isn't supposed to be able to escape his situation) so much as what decision he makes: "I choose to go the distance".
There is a similar story arc in Naruto (popular manga about ninja clans) where the main character is mocked by the village but he isn't going to worry what his status is because he makes it clear he has ambitions and is aware his current situation is that he is low status compared to the others. Rocky is similar but the ambition is choosing to not quit when the opportunity comes. He makes the final choice, nobody else. (they can only advise him but it's Rocky who must make the choice) So the story is about HIM. Otherwise you would see side stories featuring only Adrian, only Paulie, only the coach, etc but that's not the point of the Rocky franchise.
The point is atheletes need to find it within themselves to do things regardless of the return on investment and for their own personal growth reasons not for material gain. A poor guy obviously needs the money but it's not what makes a man 'tough'. It's the STRUGGLE to get out of your situation that makes you tough. You cannot be tough without struggle. And you cannot escape your current situation until you act on decision and make the most out of the opportunity. The first movie is not the same as the other movies. (rocky balboa was an attempt to reboot the story back to the first Rocky movie again by focusing on younger people: the younger generation is entitled and thinks the present day was a result of laying back and doing nothing. No all that you have you owe to people that came before you. So why not make the most of life rather than whining that yours sucks? It's a gift and this message is the root of why people like the first movie.)
I believe Stallone himself understands the underdog a lot because there are people in sports that simply do not care about the stats and just want to fight no matter the damage to their career or personal health because they choose to fight anyone because every loss helps them grow in some way. Knowing what makes you fail actually teaches you something about yourself so you can improve. There is a need to accept what you are currently so you can adapt and move to a new level once you understand your weakness. It's the law of average: more fights = more experience, which leads to better skill as you sharpen it against people better than yourself. You don't get better at chess playing against people worse than you at the game. You get better playing against people smarter than you at the game and learn from your losses and come back a little bit less crap at the game the next time. If Rocky loses or wins, that is not important. What is important is going the distance. Putting 100% no matter what happens. The first movie is not about winning since the coach and all Rocky's support network failed to get Rocky his victory. But it was a close fight since Apollo did not expect the underdog to actually take the fight seriously. And that is because Rocky put in 100% no matter the result of the fight or how humiliating it is to go through. Just like the one fat guy who completes the marathon after so many others finished it before him. (the need to finish comes from a need to make the most out of the shit cards you are dealt in life)
The only thing I don't like about Creed is how is just ignored the whole mending of his relationship with his son in the previous film. And it does it so he can have the surrogate son in Adonis.
This is a good breakdown of the character but I disagree about the speech in Rocky Balboa. I don’t think Rocky is being hypocritical I think he’s just telling Robert to not be the kind of man he was and don’t let life’s hits keep him down like they did to him for so long. He wants Robert to be better than him.
"Rocky" will always be a movie that means many things to many people. For some it is merely an underdog story, for others a boxing movie, maybe some see it as a redemption arc for a former street thug turned good guy.
This is a good way to look at it. Movies mean many things to different people. A philosophy I've come to take. Thank you for phrasing it so well.
Those are called layers. we don't seem em a lot anymore is all
I think a lot of people miss what is in my opinion the most crucial scene in the entire Rocky franchise; the "Alone in the Ring" scene. Night before his first fight with Apollo, he goes to the venue alone and is faced with his poster that depicts him wearing a wrong coloured shorts. After being hit with "it doesn't matter kid, I'm sure you'll give us a great show" by the promoter, he realises that he simply isn't going to win, that all odds are against him.
But later when he comes home to Adrian, it's not her that convinces him to keep going, it is him who decides that all that matters is going the distance, proving to himself that he is not just another bum from the neighbourhood. That's where, in my opinion, his heart is truly shown and it was always within him. That's why I disagree with the notion that others always gave him his heart, instead of them being there to guide his heart in the right direction.
In Creed, it's not that Rocky is faced with a challenge and is being supported by those that he loves. Instead, Rocky's character (which was previously established) is being changed to suit the narrative of the new story and it just feels sort of cheap.
That's my two cents, but I respect everyone's right to an opinion, especially when it comes to art and movies. We all see it from our own perspective.
i think this and agree a lot. thank you for this
I like to think that this scene was homaged in Karate Kid (2010) before Ray Parker start the tournament and receives the "Bruce Lee" shirt gaven by Mr. Han. What a coincidence that Rocky and Karate Kid (1984) were both directed by John G. Advildsen.
Great analysis. I also saw the Drinkers video and i don't remember to disagree with him. As Stallone personally said a few times: Rocky is basically a love story. And the boxing environment is a metaphor for life. What works for Rocky is, that everybody can relate to this character. No seeking love in life, no special skills, struggling in life and the ring from round to round, hoping for the big life changing chance. Rocky is a rawmodel and shows us how to face difficult situations: Never give up, keep punching. The movie works also on many layers. With or without lovestory and that what makes for me very special. There are my few thoughts....
That's a nice take on it. I've been inspired by Rocky in my life as well.
How did you find yourself inspired by his journey?
@@hughsmoviereviews2418 Hi Hugh, thanks for the reply. I follow Stallone's career since the early 80' when i was about 12. That time my parents divorced and i desperatly needed a rawmodel and friend and i found that in Rocky and Rambo in that time. I could relate to the rollercoaster of emotions he went through his films too. He kept moving so did i. But let me point out another layer of Rocky I, which is always overlooked and i personally realized many years later. Rocky starts in the first frames with the icon of Jesus and before every fight he prays and does his cross. It wooved in the whole series in a very subtile way but the message is (and i can assure this from own experience): Humble youselfr and ask for help from ABOVE, before you face your challenges and the miracle will happen. Its not only the love to his family which gives Rocky strength but primarily his believe in Jesus which gives him the ability to love and go through the fire. Its very subtile in the movies. Another point is, that most movies in the franchise correlate with Stallones own struggles in his personal live. So the movies especially the later ones are a miracle in theirself..Just some of my humble thoughts..:)
One of the things I liked about Creed is that it fit into the old statement about people filling gaps. Adonis and Rocky lift each other up together, both being worn men in their own rights. That is the thing people help repeatedly lift up Balboa, and in his own fashion, he wants to return that it always seems. Nice to trip over this.
I dont agree that Rocky was just a bum before Adrian and Mickey. Mickey even comments he was a waste of tallent.
Rocky always had heart, that is how he could endure in the Spider fight, Adrian and Mickey more polished a diamond.
I liked the Drinkers take on things (as a drinker fan, I am biased), but you provided a bit more light to what he didn't. Thank you for that
Glad you liked it!
You really really need to expand your horizons on what a good critic is. The guy is just prejudiced biased contrarian. There's no integrity behind his takes.
Only disagree on Stallone missing the point with Rocky 6. In fact, he nailed it perfectly. As parents, we’re all hypocritical. We all live vicariously through our children and try to prevent them making the same mistakes that we did. Through the first 5 movies and all the time that past afterwards, Rocky had the hindsight and contrast to deliver that speech to his half estranged Son. He’d learnt from others to ‘keep moving forward’ for the win in the ring and in life. Now, he’s delivering that message to his son, who is also giving up and not fighting. It’s not hypocrisy really, it’s the wisdom of a life lived.
Yeah, and considering it looks like he's literally fighting to just teach Robert that. Robert's his heart in that movie. Adrian, Mickey, and Apollo are gone, and he's not really doing this for Paulie. Not to mention, Robert's issue may not be universal, but a lot of famous kids feel the shadow bit he mentioned. And besides where he is in Rocky 1 before the fight, he can't blame anyone but himself for the situations he gets into Rocky 2 and onwards... So he does understand powering through.
Like, I always thought he was trying to channel Adrian when he gave that speech.
It's not a woeful misunderstanding of the character, it's a woeful misunderstanding of life. Drinker is nothing more than an ego feeding itself, now.
Although i see the point of this video, I also kinda see Drinker's point as beeing "Rocky has learned all of this before, he has been at the brink of giving up and has learned the lesson of going the distance. Why do this again?"
Because even in real life, life has a way of putting you through a similar grinder. Call it life choices or a lazy God as writer, my life has had moments that feel like rehashes of previous moments. Hell, right now I feel like I'm personally walking through similar events I went through about 3 years ago, with the only difference being a better support system and the the wisdom from the past experience.
The Rocky/ Creed franchise is similar in that regard. It is one part telling an interesting story and one part how the darker side of his nature puts himself in places where he has to pull himself out... again.
the quest for clicks leads many astray
Unlike Drinker who becomes more and more focused on complaining about wokenes in movies and make it more and more core of critique.
i agree with the drinker and i agree with you, your just coming from different angles. The drinker sums up rocky's character perfectly and you've highlighted the people around him that allowed that character to shine, but remember that it was rocky's optimism to see the best in people that allowed those characters (adrian, paulie and mickey) to become the best versions of themselves when the rest of the world had overlooked them.
Drinker would have summed Rocky up perfectly if he hadn't said that Rocky is the type of person who never gives up or stops trying, despite the fact that Rocky giving up on HIMSELF and not believing in HIMSELF is basically the core of his struggles. Rocky doesn't have that fire inside him to keep pushing no matter what, he's not driven enough on his own to believe he is enough to become anything more than he is. The core of his character is that he refuses to give up on people the way he gave up on himself, and it's those people who keep him from giving up because he never gave up on helping them overcome their lack of self belief. Rocky gives up on everything he doesn't believe he can do. It's the people around him that he fights for. You can't really say Rocky as a character is someone who will ALWAYS grit his way through and NEVER give up when that is exactly what he as a character has to overcome with the support of the people around him, it's not a character trait, it's a party buff. Saying Rocky wouldn't give up when he has nobody left to keep him pushing himself forward would require a complete lack of understanding for the entire conflict of his character. Rocky gets his fire from the people that he kept from giving up, so it is entirely within his character to give up when everyone who gave him that fire is dead or gone. Creed needed Rocky, but realizes that Rocky needs someone to keep him fighting just as much. Rocky was absolutely nothing without the emotional support of those he had helped himself, and Creed making him keep fighting was doing the exact same thing that had given Rocky his fire all those years before, and showed that Creed has that same care someone that can give both of them the drive to fight for more than themselves. Basically, drinker is totally right about Rocky if the extent of the knowledge you have about Rocky is the fight scenes and training montages, and you extrapolate his drive and determination from that.
@@restitvtororbis5330 well ultimately is Rocky a guy who gives up?
It's like looking at a score in a game. Drinker is looking at the final score. That Rocky NEVER DID give up when it was said and done.
This guy is looking at the score minute by minute. Where the team that ultimately won the game was in fact not ahead the whole time.
But that isn't a disagreement. That's a different view. A team can be undefeated but that doesn't mean they were never behind.
Drinker wasn't analyzing the Rocky character sec by second. He analyzed where Rocky started the film to where he ends the film
@@DS94everXev
Yooooooo. Dude this is it. You got it. Well said.
@@lastmanstanding7155 Thanks. I just don't see this gaping difference that others are seeing. Just look at the duration of each video. Critical was like under 10. This one is way longer. Of course it will be in more detail. But ultimately they conclude the same thing. Rocky by days end is not a quitter.
And I am seeing a lot of Critical Drinker haters around who hate him for "don't know".
I mean if there is any CZcamsr who you don't like, and it's Critical Drinker, who ends his vids telling you "To go away now" and you are NOT going away, the person with emotional issues is you. For returning to a guy who tells you to go away yet you keep returning to him despite your hatred of him.
@@DS94everXev
Yea I dunno where the hate came from. The video wasn't really like this so I got no clue why people are so pressed about him. They say he panders but the videos I watched he mostly just calls out inconsistent writing or odd plot or story elements. I think most of the dislike is from a political point of view that he's somehow against everything they like.
Great thesis. A glass can not refill itself it can only be refilled. Great line.
SPOILER
Did he (the drinker) COMPLETELY miss Rocky IV when Adriane flew all the way out to Russia so that Rocky had more motivation to fight? How Rocky cries at Creed’s death? Come on, Drinker…
Some people just block out parts of the movies I guess. Someone tried arguing that the Adonis in Creed 3 is the strongest we've seen him, despite the NUMEROUS dialogues suggesting otherwise.
@@otb_javede More like the Drinker deliberately blocks out details that don't jive with his own rigid political messaging.
Rocky III is my favorite in the franchise. Criminally underrated and unappreciated.
Way underrated. Micky's death, Rocky having an existential crisis, the journey of the characters...it's just so good.
I'm currently going thru the Rocky movies. I didn't get what you said from the Mick scene. I felt like he was kicking Mick out cause he felt that Mick was trying to ride his coattails. The night before the fight, he tells Adrian that he knows that he's not gonna beat Creed. But everyone isn't expecting him to go the distance. So he needs to prove everyone wrong and last longer than anyone has. I think it's a testament to these movies that we can watch the same scene and see it differently.
Just saw your comment as I was writing mine. Well put.
You said it perfectly. The movies don't change, but we do.
Awesome input.
@hughsmoviereviews2418 very k8nd of you. I do think we're talking about two sides of the same coin. There's been movies I loved as a kid that, as an adult, I now see and see them differently. For example. I loved the Toby Spider-Man movies. Last year, I saw them and was annoyed at how whiny the characters are. Idk, man. It's the beauty of films.
@hughsmoviereviews2418 Also may I add that I think that Rocky & Rocky 2 should just be called Rocky part 1 & Rocky part 2. Cause these 2 movies are one story. Like honestly I didn't like Rocky until I saw Rocky 2.
You missed the point of Rocky Balboa. The movie shows us that Rocky THINKS he’s going nowhere without Adrian. But once he realizes he still has his son, he wants to make sure he doesn’t go down the same path as he did. So he gives him a life lesson. He might be hypocritical but the thing is, everyone starts out flawed before they learn to become a better person.
Great review though. I especially agree with your take on Rocky in Creed.
I am glad you highlighted this point about Rocky Balboa. In my opinion Rocky Balboa was the closest the series ever got to recapturing the magic of Rocky and Rocky II. It really shows how Adrian was the most imortant character in the Rocky Franchise and how Rockys Character has grown since the original.
Creed is one of the best passing of the torch movies I have seen and even though nothing will ever top the original Rocky, I am glad it exsists cause it does highlight what makes Rocky's character great. Hopfully Creed fans will be excited to go back and see how much influence Rocky had on not just the creed series, but modern movies in general.
Stallone himself said that Rocky fueled by love. His love for Adrianne in the first 2 movies. He wanted to be better to be a Man worthy of Adrianne. In the 3rd movie, his Love for Mickey and to prove worthy of his loyalty and guidance. In part 4, his love for Apollo. I don't think Rocky was being a Hippocrite in Rocky Balboa. He was pleading with his son to be a better man than he himself had been. This is a very realistic reflection of how a parent would address their kid in that type of situation. Rocky is a great example of how motivation and support activates internal potential. Rocky was an athletic freak with insane strength and durability, but without training and support for years those abilities lay untapped. With the stability of a family and the best trainers in the world, in the form of Mickey, Dule and Apollo, his innate abilities made him one of the best fighters in the world. The Rocky of the Creed franchise is very much a realistic extension of the character. He's older and wiser, but still human and flawed. With Adonis as his new support system, he is able to rise to a higher level again. However, it took him some time to accept Adonis as his new family
Another person brave enough to talk negatively about Critical Drinker, I respect that. I’m sorry you got some backlash here, I’ve been there and it sucks. You’re right in everything you’re saying. You have a great analysis here and truly understand the character. Don’t listen to the Critical Drinker fanboys, this video is great
What people fail to realize is that rocky is a movie that features boxing but the whole prerogative is about what your really fighting for !? Without reason to fight your a husky of a man just like how we saw rocky in the beginning of his movie what a remarkable milestone in cinema history
We've all got to find a reason to get up and fight every day. And who or what we're fighting for is so very important.
What's the best scene in Rocky for you and how did it affect you and how you fight every day?
Determination isn't a constant, everyone has self-doubt, and it ebbs and flows that's the point of Rocky, totally agree with you!
The credits never role in real life. In real life, the story ends abruptly and the audience is often shocked into silence as they leave the theater.
Beautifully put , I absolutely agree, y'know !!
I agree that Critical Drinker was off base on this one. Creed did a great job bringing Rocky back to the big screen in a way that respected the character and the legacy of past Rocky films. Among modern Hollywood reboots/spinoffs, it was one of the good ones.
"We have to be in the midst of the action because were the warriors. And without some challenge or a war to fight,the warrior might as well be dead"-Apollo Creed to Rocky. I think critical drinker is right in the fact that "the fight" is in Rockys blood. But by Creed,Rocky has gotten to the point where living is a challenge. If he had something to live for,of course he would have fought cancer. But at this point,life isn't anything to fight for,so he might as well be dead. Critical drinker things he should fight cancer for the hell of it. Adonis just managed to tap into that warrior spirit and give Rocky a challenge and something to fight for. He also inspires Rocky to get over fears of mending his relationship with his son. Giving him a newfound reason to live by the end of Creed 2. Really hope Stallone comes back to these creed movies man. He got a good send off if he doesnt though.
Rocky always picks himself back up. But in the first four movies he had a reason to get back up. Mick, Apollo, Paulie, and most importantly Adrien. By Creed, he lost everyone who was in his corner to the March of time, death. So he had no one left to pick himself up for. He lost the will to fight. He’s never able to fight when his head isn’t in the right space. Adonis, being the son of his rival/best friend, gives him someone in his corner again. Someone to connect with. A piece of his past that comes in when he needs it the most. He only ever wins when he has the people in his life to fill in those gaps. His character in Creed isn’t diminished because he’s lost his will. He’s in a completely different stage in his life. One in which everyone who grows old can empathize with. Without being able to fight anymore, no connection with his estranged, adult son, Paulie and Apollo are gone, Adrien, his heart, his everything, he’s an empty man who doesn’t want to fight anymore. Critical Drinker missed the entire point of his character. It seemed like he just brushed over the surface of the character and missed the important points.
Thank you. This what I was trying to show with this video. I'm glad some folks get it. I wasn't trying to diminish Rocky by saying he had no heart of his own, but rather that his heart needs to be bolstered by those around him for him to reach his potential.
Thanks for the positive feedback. Hope to see what you think of the next review!
The drinker barely understands most of the movies he watches, sometimes even asking questions that are literally explained in the movie
Here to piss you off indeed.
This is 100% spot on, and exposes CD as clouded by his tiresome need to take down anything he deems 'woke'. Creed actually echoes the 'loss of confidence, then redemption' narrative at the heart of all Rocky films.
Woke is crap, you might like the taste but others don't
@@jr2904 woke is a buzzword that doesn't mean anything anymore
@@jr2904 you missed my point completely lol.
Drinker is woke himself, so that's far from true.
@@TheStraightestWhitest
How is he woke in any shape or form?
This is an A+ work of art. You did am awesome job making your review super compelling, making sure you didn't come off as offf putting, and you demonstrated some creative astuteness. Really impressed by this.
Thank you! I worked really hard on it. I hope you like the next review as much!
At first I thought you were wrong but you convinced me. Good job
It takes alot of courage and strength to accept death. Rocky is a natural provider and always needed at least one person to provide something for. I think only people who have lived a long, full life and outlived everyone they love, could possibly relate to Rocky in Creed.
To be fair, I don't understand Rocky either. Like, I need subtitles when he speaks. Also I love how this channel has 400 subs but almost 40K views in 9 days, lulz. The power of Critical Drinker.
Edit: I haven't seen all the Rocky movies but I do think you make some good points. 👍
Every year they played the movie on the art museum steps. Its great , every year it got better. I was featured in Rocky 2 running up the same steps. Sly even stepped on my foot during one take, "uh sorry kid", it ruled
That's awesome! Did you box him for the title? 😉
You're a Philly native, then? What was it like having that movie being filmed there?
I thought the exact same thing when he talked about Rocky it felt like he was grasping at straws with that one. I do agree with other things he says but not in this regard
the sad thing is that years ago, drinker before his channel was even the critical drinker, reviewed the original rocky and it was a really good review that explained why the film worked, making it so odd that he still ended up not understanding the character.
Anti-woke political nonsense will do that to you. It makes you see everything in the “Red VS Blue” lense. If it’s not anti-woke, then it’s woke and therefore bad. If it’s not woke, then it’s obviously making fun of wokeness and it’s on your side.
This is why he sees the old Rocky movies as good, and the Creed movies as bad.
@@jerryborjon Sadly true. I actually like some of his older reviews.
@@jerryborjon i don’t believe that is the case & even argued using the word woke & the dangers of not giving something a chance. I genuinely think he found the suggestion that life can make anyone eventually give up depressing. Hugh nailed it though. czcams.com/video/LhRC6PQbCDo/video.html
@@Redemption80
Kinda true tho. Actually what's interesting is how people are relating this to wokness when the drinker never reall cited that as the issue with Rocky's character. It sounded like he just didn't really believe the sudden character change there. Maybe I'm missing something tho.
@LankyLink Watch his Creed III review. He wasn't a hundred per cent positive but he did praise various aspects of the film.
Amazing video! I've seen these movies about a dozen times or something. One point I'd add at 13:15 is that right after that speech Rocky gives his son, we cut to Rocky back at Adrian's grave, just sitting, then his son shows up and suddenly he gets motivated again. Stallone even said in the audio commentary that he thinks that if Robert hadn't shown up at that moment, Rocky probably wouldn't have gone through with the fight at all. So once again, there's Rocky getting inspired by the people around him.
Also I feel like "The Drinker Doesn't Understand XYZ" is a new CZcams trend and it's been a long while coming.
Thanks for the encouragement. I hope the next vid is to your liking as well. Happy viewing!
I never thought about how Adrian taught him how to read and then he read at her grave.. damn
Okay, this is 100% true, but it also shows a distinction between Creed and Rocky. Rocky was a directionless man who had to find the eye of the tiger with the help of those around him, Creed had that motivation to begin with, he was a born fighter, who more needed to learn there was a life outside of that,
I think both of your views are correct to a point and the reality probably meets somewhere in the middle.
The worst part of Drinker is that you can see the potential he has for dissecting and explaining films and what makes them great in almost all his videos, but he always falls straight into whining about how modern films are to diverse or something without fail.
He might be good at dissecting films but can he film a movie to the calibre of what he thinks other movies should live up to?
I’m a critic too like u all, bjt that’s where it ends for all of us.
Movies/TV (as a collective story-telling medium) is arguably at the height of quality overall. Specific pockets of genres have peaks and valleys. Science Fiction, Romantic Comedy, Parody, Fantasy, Animation, etc has times where it's trending well and other times where it's not.
I'd settle on the conclusion that the quality of movies/TV has been pretty consistent over the decades. TV has taken a lot of the Hollywood talent away from filmmaking over the past 15 years, so the quality has shifted greatly but the storytelling work is as good as it ever was, if not better.
I think Drinker is INSANE for suggesting that modern Hollywood is worse than it was 20-40 years ago. Cherry picking the 5 movies every year from decades ago that were great to compare to modern movies is incredibly disingenuous and he does this to make all his points. He has an idea to sell, so he reaches and picks out specific crap to highlight while ignoring everything that does not fit his argument.
Well, if hollywood stopped leaning into identity politics, he wouldn't have to complain about it
I enjoyed this talk through the Rocky films, hope to see the channel grow!
Silvester always put his heart first in all of his movies. He will never win an Oscar and that's why we love him.
Rocky IV is alright....I like it. And there is nothing wrong with being proud of your country.
You're both correct. Rocky is created with many layers, so that you both can identify with different traits in him. Thorough out the movie, he jumps from one type to the other, because of how uncertain everything is. The Mick scene is a perfect example of this - You see it as Rocky going over to him, and humbly accepting his help, because he needs it (this might be true), while I see it as him doing this so that the old man can have another chance to spark his passion, and whatever happens, happens. The beauty of complex writing. To me, Rocky is doing Mick a favour.
The one thing I disagree with is the so-called "dressing down" Rocky gave to Robert. Rocky had been trying to re-connect with & stay in Robert's life. He almost always came to Robert in their scenes. Robert was avoiding Rocky. So he needed to hear that AWESOME speech. It was then that Robert came to & stayed with Rocky up until they all leave the arena. Rocky was trying to be there for his son.
I went back and re-watched the scene, and I partially agree with you that I may have been a bit too harsh there. I do still think Stallone may have missed that Rocky himself never stood to fight unless he had others.
But, input assimilated. I hope you enjoyed the rest of the video, and it's really cool to hear other's takes on stuff like this. Thanks again.
Yeah, because relapses are an urban legend and a man who has lost his wife, his passion and has distant himself from the only family he has would never fall into a state of depression. Rocky is such a softy for giving up on life under those circumstances, am i right?
Seriously though, i wonder sometimes if the dude is actually beyond wasted when he writes those scripts.
disagree. Drinker understood the essence of Rocky a lot more than this video is giving him credit for. I also think something else is being missed, Rocky was special beyond wether or not he was chosen to fight Apollo and show the world his heart and determination through sheer luck. Rocky was special because he saw the beauty in people when noone else did. He saw how beautiful Adrian was when everyone else overlooked her, and she became as beautiful on the outside as she was on the inside by his side. yes Rocky was angry at how Mickey treated him but he found it in his heart to forgive him and take him back even though Mickey really didnt deserve it. Mickey then became the best trainer and father figure that Rocky could have asked for. Rocky even stood by Paulie when everyone else hated him and Paulie knew it. and Paulie told him how much he loved and admired him, and that was probably the outer limit of what Paulie was emotionally capable of. all of these characters were deeply wounded and scared and they all grew around Rocky. Rockys heart was so big he gave it to the people around him. Its the small moments of caring that make Rocky special, not the brutal fights.
The Drinker was right about Rocky...when he was young. Rocky in Creed was an aging man who lost everything, and didn't want to go on. This is something Rocky has done in almost every movie, especially in Rocky III when he gave up in the middle of the movie, until Adrian hyped him up again.
Not that different from the character.
He was right about Rocky when he was young. He was completely wrong about Rocky in Creed.
I'm a fan of the Critical Drinker - I hope he respond to this wonderful argument, either making a solid debate or applauding it and saying 'Well done' it deserves something.
"Many consider [Rocky IV] to be the silly son of the franchise". ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME. THIS FILM IS THE CULMINATION OF WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT. ROCKY I, II, and III WALKED SO ROCKY IV COULD RUN.
Dude, Rocky IV had a robot. It was pretty silly.
Also the fact that in the first movie he initially turned down the Creed fight because he didn't think he was good enough to even go in the ring with him. Most of CD stuff nowadays is just him complaining about everything being "woke"
Most reviewers are like that now sigh. Tyrone Magnus made a review of Cocaine Bear, and the first thing he said was, " it wasn't woke," and I said, "This isn't a review," and clicked off. They don't even know the definition of the things they are against
@@CarlieGuss the saddest part of this is that this reviewers and and their fanbases have literally become what they always whine about just the opposite we have the annoying woke people ( which are starting to become less annoying) and the annoying anti woke ( which are starting to become more annoying)
@@sgtroach1510 lol true. My biggest thing is that it's like there are huge swathes of people that don't understand satire
@@CarlieGuss Ty is pretty good, a common person's reviewer. Despite being a black man, Ty is tired of lazy race-swaps, wishes they would concentrate more on story and characters. Disney, rings of power, ect is going to suffer if they keep hiring writers and directors that really look like they were hired more to help fill "diversity quotas" rather than being the best person for the job (For example, there seem to be more latinos in these jobs then their percentage of the general population would suggest there should)
@@sgtroach1510 Not much anti-woke stuff in modern movies and series, and doesn't really effect story and characters. Because of the show's feminist writers She-Hulk's Jen Walters starts off being boringly an essentially perfect Hulk who doesn't need any help or training from her male cousin Bruce Banner (original Hulk). In the first episode Jen is shown to be pretty self-centered and through-out the series she often uses her powers for selfish reasons and complains that she doesn't really want to use her powers to be a heroine. I thought there would be a cliched type of character growth away from that self-centeredness in the series, like what happens in Ironman. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, I guess it's pretty feminist when a woman who wants to keep being self-centered can stay self-centered and circumstances only encourages her to use her extraordinary abilities to do a few heroic things for others when she had long ago made clear that she was a woman who really didn't want to use her powers to do that.
I have known drinkers content for some time. I use to agree with his points most of the time. When I've seen the title of this video I was thinking that will be another poor deconstructivist rant against Drinker. I was positively surprised when you started to adress his points more than just shit on his character. The only Rocky movie I watched was the original. And it was very recently. My recollection of that movie renders that you actually have stronger arguments for your interpretation. I think Drinker haven't seen the old Rocky movies from some time and just don't remember the core events of this movies. That Stallone's Oscar speech also change lots of people memories of what original themes were. I think Critical Drinker would agree with you when he see this video.
Keep up the good work mate!
Thanks for the encouragement!
I'd encourage you to watch the rest of the Rocky movies. Even if they do delve into the cheesy sometimes, there's a lot of really good stuff to be found, even if you're not into sports movies.
What kind of films would you like to see more people talk about?
For instance, what's your favorite movie ever?
I saw rock 1 as a movie about a man with some talent, whose incomplete, unfulfilling and chaotic life sabotages the talent he later learns to cultivate when his life becomes more complete with the addition of the loved ones who support him and push him to be better (his trainer, adrian, even apollo himself in a way). Rocky goes from a street thug to a decent man worthy of genuine respect, not by getting better in the ring, but by improving the other facets of his life, and the improvement in the ring is a result of that holistic growth.
I wont lie, I originally came in with red ears because I really like the drinker and really disliked Creed, but after watching the whole thing through i have to say you brought up some great points and i highly enjoyed the video. You earned a sub!
Glad you enjoyed it, and glad to bring a new perspective. what was your favorite part of the Rocky films?
Damn i'm glad youtube recommended me this video. Subscribed!!!
So essentially Rocky isn't a "Sigma" who would provide their own meaning, fuel and drive to themselves. And that's ok, most people aren't 100% self-sustained.
No one is unless you know someone who can photosyntetise.
That man has nice and entertaining videos, but his ability to differentiate high quality products from low quality ones has been affected by his agenda and personal beliefs of what the general audience wants; he's not so much critical as he is biased towards what he feels is best, and he thinks everyone else agrees.
The one thing he can do to improve is to analyze the opinions of people who disagree with him, such as yourself, and realize that what we value in entrainment isn't always a path to quality content, as well as what we despise isn't always a path to mediocrity.
He also steals edits his videos , he ranted about the house of the dragon video and when it turns out to be popular he deleted it
yesss, for him everything that falls under the category of "woke" is inherently bad. He's entertaining to a certain point, but i can't take his opinions seriously
I do feel like the first Creed sucks away a lot of the character progression of Rocky Balboa, but overall I definitely agree with the analysis of Rocky as a character who usually reacts predictably to various situations.
I think this is the most accurate depiction of the Rocky character I have heard so far. You're right on point
While I enjoyed your side of this debate, I couldn't past the fact that you left out one key moment when talking about how Rocky only gets his strength from those around him. After Rocky gets knocked down that last time, Mickey is shouting for him to "Down, Down Stay Down!", but, AGAINST that advice, reaches down inside, finds the strength and gets to his feet, much to Creeds dismay. Then between rounds, Mackey once more says he wants to throw in the towel, because of Rockys eye. Rocky says NO, and to cut him, to decrease the swelling enough to make it through the last round!!! While I think both you AND the Drinkers arguments are filled with your own passion for these movies, we all have our own takes on certain scenes, and take things away from movies mostly based on our own life experiences. Much like music, everyone hears something different, and no ones right and no one's wrong. It's the beauty of a movie like this, everyone takes away something different, but loves it at all the same.
Another scene I forgot to mention when Rock goes against those who are supposed to be his pillars, is in IV when Adrian doesn't want him to fight Drago because she's afraid for him. She actually screams at Rocky "YOU CANT WIN!". These don't seem like the words of someone who is carrying someone else to victory. They sound like the words of someone who throughout the entire series has been trying and trying to get Rocky to retire. What's Rocky say in response to someone else telling him that he can't win? "Oh Adrian, Adrian always tells the truth....but to beat me, he's gonna have to kill me!!". I'd say Rocky was the kind of guy, like most of us, that could do things on his own. He was obviously better with people around him, watching out for him, but when it came down to it, it was Rockys heart and sheer will that got all of them through it.
I think you're right about Rock not being retconned, but I disagree about the Rocky Balboa speech. While Rocky is at his best with his support system, at the end of the day he was still an elite boxer. All this loved ones believed in him because there was something special about him. He was the one getting knocked down and getting back up and no one was in the ring helping him up. He had to do that all by himself.
Same. I like CD, but I think his take on Rocky being retconned is quite a stretch. But this video is quite dismissive of his actual ability as a fighter. He gives all of the credit to his family and none of it to Rocky. I've heard this in other movies and sports before. I tends to come from critics who haven't ever competed in anything physical, and definitely not at a college or pro level.
You are so right, I love the Rocky franchise and you just made it so much better for me. It makes sense that Adrienne was the reason he kept getting up… just like my wife is my reason. Thanks and heart is my subscribe 😫👍🏾👍🏾
Thanks for the encouragement. And I wish you and your "Adrian" all the best.
Ask Stallone.
Everything else is just opinion.
The Critical Drinker and other outrage critics act like the "Beaten down old man" character is something new in storytelling. But you got this right. He's always on the verge of giving up and considering himself as a bum. He always needs someone to give him a push.
I don't know how so many miss that aspect of his character!
Thumbs up for a well measured critique, as you say it's ok to disagree, not that I disagree with your points, it's just a nice thought provoking point of view.
Sincerely,
A Critical Drinker viewer.
Agreed. I like how this dude, despite disagreeing with Critical Drinker, still respected his channel and his videos, unlike 90% of this comments section who just call him an awful incel. Drinker is far from perfect, but I'd rather watch Drinker's worst video than listen to these obnoxious idiots spew stupid nonsense because they disagree with Drinker.
Rocky 5 is actually my favorite but I've watched the entire series numerous times. Rocky's message is timeless.
I hated it as the last sputter of the entire Rocky story, with its rap music and weirdly shot street fight, but I've come to like it a lot as part 5 of 9
@@PabbyPabbles Haha, I'm the first to admit, it's not a good film but I agree with you. I loved the street fight. It was original for the series and stood out. Too bad the rest of it didn't make much sense LOL.
@@billsmith8381 I think most of the hate came from 1990~2005 when it was seen as the end. But yeah, as a midpoint in the various ups and downs of Rocky's life it's super interesting and different
I actually agree with both of you. You're right on the Rocky front more or less (CD makes some good points) but his point about Rocky wasn't just about Rocky at a whole, Rocky was but 1 of about a dozen examples CD brought up. CD point was that modern hollywood seems obsessed with breaking down, minimizing, or belittling nearly EVERY one of our movie stars of yesteryear.
Han Solo is a runaway bad father, Indiana Jones is a deadbeat father, Rocky ended up a quitter, Luke Skywalker thought about murdering his own nephew over a bad dream, Optimus Prime out here murdering humans and beheading a surrendering Megatron, etc etc.... there's more examples than i care to list.
1 after the other Hollywood treats our classic films of yesteryear as cheap launch pads for rebooted franchises, and instead of embracing the past, they seem obsessed with kind of belittling it and tearing it down to build on the ashes, rather than build on top of the heights of the past for something bigger and better.
Never apologize for having a point of view.
I’ve found there’s very few of his reviews or critiques I agree with. For me it seems to go down to two certain sides regarding his reviews: it’s either he’s going with what seems to be the popular sentiment with what’s deemed acceptable regarding a certain film or films, which I do sometimes find myself agreeing with such as his thoughts regarding the Disney trilogy of Star Wars films, or he just hasn’t a clue as to what he’s talking about and it makes you wonder if he even paid attention to the film or films, such as with the Rocky character. I think with Rocky Balboa, when it comes to that speech Rocky was saying to his son perhaps he wants to believe in what he’s saying, even though it’s not exactly true for him, but wants his son to be stronger in ways he wasn’t. Of course that’s just my opinion, though I’ve come to this mainly from what you have laid out here as this sort of just came to me just now. In Rocky Balboa, it shows how Rocky has lost a lot of people who helped give him the strength and confidence he needs at integral moments in his life, primarily whenever he’s going to go against someone in the ring, and especially the love of his life by the sixth film. The speech may be hypocritical from Rocky, but it could also be he wants his son to be the best man he can be. Perhaps it’s both of those things at the same time. Or maybe I’m looking way into this.