Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Getting real - a transgender experience | Shannon Thrace | TEDxMaastricht
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 11. 2017
- Shannon Thrace shares the intimate details of her marriage and unveils the secret that transformed her life as she knew it. Thrace is a grad student, writer, IT professional and devotee of farm-to-table restaurants, summer festivals, all-night conversations and formidable philosophy texts.
Thrace shares a personal account of the tumultuous final eighteen months of her previously happy marriage. This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at www.ted.com/tedx
"You want me to map woman onto you." Beautifully put. I've been there ♡ Thank you for speaking.
Sharron: “I feel like I am being silenced because my story contradicts the popular narrative”
🏳️⚧️ in the comments: “I’m uncomfortable this is dangerous & shouldn’t be shared”
you’re literally just reinforcing her point that only one narrative is aloud.
I sympathise that it makes people uncomfortable but I don’t believe a narrative should be partial to suit personal insecurity’s
Thank you for not allowing yourself to be silenced. The world needs the truth and more women like you speaking it.
preach!
why are you like this
I've heard these types of stories over and over again... this is the giant elephant in the room that we dare not mention in public.
Well apart from it being mentioned all the time by far right nutjobs and gender 'critical' enablers.
I heard these stories way too many times from the right and way too less from the left. This story is about someone confusing euphoria with dysphoria. The person she talked about is either not even trans or she is misrepresenting the story (or prob both).
Very true. I had the feeling that not everything is great-especially for spouses and kids.
@@gerjanalons Yes, yes, everyone who doesn't support your point of view are liars. How comfortable to live with an attitude like this.
@@ShadowSumac most anti trans people are right wingers
This made my day. Maybe my week. I'm so grateful that TED allowed hidden truth to be spoken. And this woman deserves a medal for courage.
@David Vanpatten Of course a man is defending a man's right to be a woman
Shannon, thank you. This talk is so important and valuable. I wish this video could be seen by everyone. God Bless You.
I'm surprised, I didn't expect to hear this kind of story at all! I guess that kind of proves her point...
Wow. It is haunting to think how many others have found themselves in this position, yet we rarely hear of the other side: those whose loved ones reveal a new and "authentic" self that is fundamentally at odds with their own lived reality and truths. One side gets the attention, the admiration, the support. But as the past and present are rewritten to affirm this new identity as defined by the individual, what of the reality for those whose history and relationships were premised upon the facts of this individual's previous existence? Do they not have the same rights, as individuals, to self-identify, to use words with definitions that match what their eyes have seen, to speak their own truths, to retain their own memories? If all of this cannot be reconciled, then those whose lives were upended by a loved one should not be forced to choose between silence and submission.
Kim, I was in a discussion with a transwoman last year. He insisted he was his children's mother and refused to even consider how that impacted his ex-wife or even his kids. It's a lifestyle characterized by extreme selfishness.
And then there are those like Shannon's husband - and mine - whose partners do their damnedest to be supportive, until the reality of the situation forces itself upon us. Then ::we:: are the ones who are disowned and abused for not bowing to the ideology, while our trans-identified partners are lauded for their 'bravery' and their 'authenticity'. There are two sides to every story.
@@sarahblaquiere3121 I'm so sorry Sarah. It's so sad that women's voices are silenced while their husbands are being lauded as brave and coragious . It is destressing that wives are told they need to be supportive, even as their husbands completely disregard their wives. It seems that even in cases where abuse is occurring the wifes feelings are still disregarded. She is told her husband is part of a persecuted minority and his behaviour is given a pass. Being trans should not excuse poor treatment of others. It is also distressing to hear how the needs of children are ignored. Trans people need support but so do their families. Their families need to be able to express their feelings and be open about their experiences.
Wow, this is so well-said!
Hi, trans woman here. When I came out about a year ago my family could not get over their reality. Their reality burned me. I attempted suicide, and I still struggle with self harm. Yes, it is very difficult to accept when someone appears to altar something something so fundamental to who we are, but it’s not that difficult. Women don’t want to be objectified, trans women don’t want to be seen as men. The only pain one goes through when asked to accept is the supposed loss of a loved one, when that loved one is right there talking to them. Yes the option is silence or subservience as you put it because the alternative is pain and 60 percent of the time death.
Very brave. We need to talk about all the stories that don’t fit the acceptable narrative.
Oh yeah it’s so brave how the cis person is speaking out about the horrendously difficult experience of someone who isn’t them being trans, I’m sure the two of them are experiencing equal hardship.
@@hummingbirdofgumption3263 that is an astounding way to look at that, I hope you meet an actual trans person some day because this terminally online perspective is sad
@@hummingbirdofgumption3263 oh yeah between me and the probable channer who's more online
@@Namanzw quote me where I said I did
@@addylenwest8536 you don’t have to say it explicitly,
You go girl. Thanks for speaking out and telling your truth and the truth of so many others.
The problem isn’t addressing this concern. It’s very important that people are aware of the psychological effect it will have on the person transitioning as well as the people in their lives. HOWEVER, what IS the problem is people taking these stories and using them to create a narrative antagonizing the community as a whole. You KNOW that’s what will happen…
I cannot believe that TED allowed this! I'm so impressed. Finally, the truth about trans insanity is coming out.
I'm altso glad she could speak. I think the TEDx are indipendent events. They have to obtain a free licence. From TED. Lets hope it is not the last time this organizer got such a lisence.
im so happy i could cry
If this conference hosted a speaker talking about a relationship breakdown suffered after a partner came out as not-straight, should we use that experience to argue that not being straight is pathological?
Sure. What does that have to do with being trans?
Randy, if being not straight (strange way to put it) involved deepening pathology, and a demand that partners lie about material reality, then it would indeed be pathological. We're going by the symptoms. But not straight people want to be their authentic selves, whereas trans people insist that they're someone they're not.
More people really need to watch this
why?
I hope Shannon finds a publisher for her memoir. This is the untold story of so many women who lose their husbands to autogynephillia.
Wives of these men have so much information about AGP. Too bad nobody listens.
I absolutely agree that we would all, cis, trans or questionning, benefit from more open dialog about these hard topics, those unclear situations, the right to go back on a transition, and to choose unconventional paths. However, we can't have that dialog because currently anything that deviates from the "transitioning made this person happy" story gets immediately co-opted by hate groups and lobbies and instrumentalised to prevent ALL trans people, even the ones who genuinely do benefit from transition, even the ones who can't bear living without transitioning, from accessing medical care and/or living as themselves : /
THIS! I didn't disagree with anything she said per se, but the type of language used mirrors the coded language of bigots in many ways, it made me feel very uncomfortable because i KNOW how this will be weaponized. There's no easy answers here, but we should also avoid the dangers of pushing people who aren't ready for transition into the decision, so we have to have these conversations in a very careful way and fight back with everything we have when bigots try to coopt the discussion for their own purposes. I think that her language about "children as young as four" being pushed towards transition was both mostly false and plays into the right wing narrative, so that deserves some pushback.
@@l337dta Correct. And you can bet that the ones who didn't pick up on what you picked up on, will likely downvote this video because they think it supports transwomen, while the ones who upvote are thinking she's being truly supportive.
Anyone else notice how we hardly hear from FtM trans people? Also, it seems like the MtF voices and actions are the most abrasive and hostile when anything is questioned.
Kind of like men in general. Of course the MtFs (sic) are men.
Yep! That's exactly what I was thinking. The irony of it all hurts my head.
lol, Erik, pretty much!!!
Don't be daft, there's plenty of FtM trans people around, but because of misogyny, the far right is only interested in trans women and gender 'critical' types hate talking about trans guys because it makes a mockery of their transphobic theories. In the UK, there's more referrals in the last couple of years for FtMs than there are for MtFs.
Wanna speak to them? Go to a trans space and try to act like a human being.
Susan Nunes males gonna male
transitioning is a life changing event all the facts should be know politely correct or not this woman has a lot of courage and needs to be heard
I am a newly minted 'trans-person'.
I can confirm, there does seem to be a 'push' to GO GO GO when your bloodwork comes back 3months into HRT to ramp it up and start planning surgeries. I've had that from two doctors and three therapists.
When I said, 'I... want to go low and slow. Really feel this out. See if I feel better for longer, first, before going farther. This is a big deal. Im here to see if this helps me mentally first and foremost i regards to my dysphoria or, if it's something else.', in regards to my doses. They replied back with what they want to see people like me in 'range' with when it comes to female estrogen levels and all pushed back/acted disappointed in me for not being over the moon ready to jump all in.
My wife, has voiced similar concerns as Shannon. But we have been through this together, since the start of it. I am better in some aspects now, worse in others. I wish to have more data, more timelines, more honesty so I can help myself, but like Shannon says its met with opposition.
I just got back from a walk this morning in the woods, wondering 'Do I really want to do this? Is this really me? Maybe I should stay off the internet and forums for a bit to see how I feel', vs much like what happened to Jamie. There is grooming for sure. My IM client up to the right here is pinging with other trans-women/men asking me what I am going to do now that I have my results back.
There is health in this, there is also harm. Go low and slow. You *can stop* at any point you wish.
Need more voices of reason
This what scares me. So many people with dysphoria have comorbid mental health issues. Professionals ignoring that for the sake of one, irreversible answer is scary and unethical.
Slow should always be the case because if you go too fast and it's not the answer for you that is another trauma
@@RenegadeContext Yup. Follow up on me, de-transitioning. It's all a cult fostered by sh(g)roomers and insurance companies.
I applaud your courage and honesty!
This was a fantastic piece! You share your story, sister - it's an important one!
why are you like this
@@AndyS52
Why are you, bigot?
I found this uncomfortable to watch at first, as transitioning for me has brought me only great joy and freedom. However my experience is mine, I cannot presume that transition is the right solution for all who question their gender. As in all things we must freely look at ALL sides of any situation, not just those that have a happy ending. To do so is to foster ignorance and can lead some to make a less than informed decision. I agree that the less than happy stories must be told to truly have OPEN dialog.
It is somewhat ironic though that this talk was at Maastricht, The Netherlands. Where I, as a 34 y/o male-to-female, have gotten great support from the healthcare system. You actually only get the official diagnosis after a lengthy and in depth assessment with both psychologists en a psychiatrist. Before you get the diagnosis and can get treatment through hormones, you talk about your feelings and your history a whole bunch. This period takes several months, if not over a year, which gives you ample time to figure out who you are and what your feel.
I have been very luck with the support I've received from my wife in this as well. But it is true that not everybody's experience is as positive. The care we get throughout the entire process is of paramount importance in my opinion. Honesty is very important, both to yourself and the people around you. I agree with her that the notion that after transition we should retroactively change pronounce as well is ridiculous. Yes I am a woman, that used to be a man. I do not lie about my history as a man, because that would be forsaking who I was, and partly who I am. I would not be the woman I am today if it was not for the man I was before...
True, but the less than happy stories must be told by the person transitioning, not a wife, who has her own issues around her mate transitioning, which colors the reality of the story radically.
@@Shadowandsoulmebabe Why? Don't you think she's allowed to have issues around her spouse transitioning? I should imagine affects her just a little.
Yay! An intelligent and PEACEFUL comment! I agree. I think more research shall be done about gender. How wonderful it would be if the doctor could scan your brain and tell you if you shall transition!
@@Shadowandsoulmebabe Is her experience not valid?
Shannon speaks to truth and is, by me, very respected for speaking to her experience. I am moved to admit to the complications of transitioning and the impact it has on family and friends. I am in a good place post transition. I am secure in who I am and believe I treated a psychologically devastating and worsening path of decline I was on successfully; I know no longer am lying to myself due to being intent on placating others. There is more to the story than me. What of the others?
My actions have had the impact of cause to grieve and feelings of loss. I know this and this is my new hurt. My family are still my family but normalcy is not the experience anymore. Anyone considering doing what I have done, please, take your time, lots of time and dig deeper than you've ever dug before into understanding self. Maybe what you think you want now is not what you really want later and perhaps there is another solution yet to discover. My children lost a father in physical appearance; they agree, I am still the "odd parent." I love them and fortunately my family and friends still love me too. That is not everyone's experience. I distanced myself from my family to protect them and not shame them; they embraced me and welcomed me back. Shannon, I am sorry for the impact your experience has had from your perspective; your hopes and dreams have suffered and your story, again is well received by me. Your hurt is real. People need to know that.
Thank You
Hi Aeron, nice to know you. I agree Shannon's hurt is definitely real but are you even ok with her using the "t" word in her talk? And doesn't it irk you just a little that she's so at pains to paint her ex-husband's transition in a negative light, with no mention at all of how "Jamie" is doing now? Or that she totally denies the prior existence of Jamie's dysphoria though (obviously) it's very likely that it was simply kept secret? And what about all the focus on what constitutes a "real" female body? I totally get that wives can be justifiably hurt when husbands transition, and I think it very likely that Jamie lied to her by omission by not coming out sooner, but I don't think anyone should applaud her for this bitter attempted takedown of one trans person's reality. I hope you're still in a good place and I wish you all the best!
Not what I expected. Having seen so many TEDx talks in support of transgenderism I was surprised that this would even have been allowed. A good, moving and honest talk.
The trans community tends to complain that the cis community does not understand them but the trans community doesn't understand the cis community either....they're both different. If you grow up with an identity issue, you will not understand what it's like not to have one and vice versa. Talking is the only thing to help understand.
Agreed - one community is grounded in reality and one is dominated by narcissism and trans p0rn
Now you are indeed a brave woman, not the once we are forced to celebrate. Hope you will not be harassed by the "open minded" and thanks for speaking out!
Brava. Let’s continue this conversation.
What a courageous woman! I wish her all the best after everything she went through and had to endure.
why are you like this
@@AndyS52 I fell into a sea of liquid gold and good fortune as a child and had this sparkling personality ever since; or maybe a demonic unicorn kicked me into it, same difference
Excellent! Thank you so much for telling your story. You’re not alone.
thank you for letting her speak
8:15 See, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off about the attitudes MtF's have about women. I've seen plenty of women who have impeccable hair and nails, who dress to the nines. These are the same women who are out with their husbands deer hunting and have been hunting and fishing since they were little girls.
As for me, I'm too lazy for hair and makeup, but I do enjoy some things that would be considered more "girly". It's almost like women are capable of having a broad interest of things, a "personality", if you will.
Transwomen, I don't what on earth you think women actually are, but what most of you are presenting probably ain't it.
I remember a time when the message was a man could be more emotional and enjoy more feminine things and it didn't make him less of a man. What changed? Why do you *need* to be a "woman" to enjoy these things?
They don't know what women are since they are men.
They general idea of what woman is totally based on gendered stereotypes. Which makes their behavior inherently sexist.
a m e n
I agree with your statement. Feminism encouraged both men and women to seek freedom from the rigid gender norms society had previously enforced. In many ways Trans ideology seems to reinforce gender binaries. We should just express our gender without labels and boxes. We don't need labels like gender fluid or gender nonconforming. We are all a mix of what society has labelled masculine and feminine traits.
I'm mtf, and a tshirt and jeans low maintenance type of woman. That attitude isn't what we have about ourselves, it's what society has for us. There are heavy expectations for us to conform to the female norm. And the ones who don't face the harshest criticism and violence.
@Xiao Mao!
Juliet:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? It is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.
Please don't let anyone stop you from telling this important story. Too many want to silence this reality speak. Well done! One of our local trans identified males talked about being "betrayed by his wife". Cause yknow, it's all about and supporting their narcissism.
is it narcissistic to think your life will love you because of who you are instead of how you represent?
Nehriim it's narcissistic to expect your wife and society to ignore material reality. It's narcissistic and misogynistic to force others to agree that you are a woman even when you're not.
@@MothLand its not narcissistic to be yourself
@@chiaraballon1556 of course it's not. But like I said, it is to force other's to lie for your comfort. It is to lie openly to people about reality and force them to agree with you, lest they face social ostracization and ridicule.
@@gerjanalons Yes. Because normal people don't separate "presentation" and "reality".
Excellent talk on a difficult subject. Thank you! :D
WOW! This touched really, really close and resonated in a way that surprised me. Thank you for sharing your story.
I’m a trans masculine, I love looking at other perspectives and seeing how different it is from mine. I do understand the contradictions of feeling and mistaking something that indicates your body isn’t fully yours for something euphoric.
I’ve had those feelings after the aftermath of a deeply traumatic incident
Be careful not to take Shannon’s experience and turn it into a generalization of all spouses experiences. There is a hint of “victimization” in her words that I recognize from some of my own personal experience. It would be nice to hear Jamie’s POV in this matter - as I was told by my Ex “You killed my husband” and “I wish you were dead”. My Ex refused to communicate with me or help me as I struggled even going back a decade before I officially came out. There was a lot of DENIAL and ANGER thrown at me. Hoping our friends and family would turn on me and reject me. My Ex told me to my face “I want you to pay for what you’ve done.” I attempted suicide when I was a teen about my Gender Dysphoria. I was about to do it again in my 40’s. I spent years with medical professionals so that it wasn’t “I” who diagnosed myself.... but people who know what to look for and inform me and everyone else around me - what it was I struggled with and how to remedy it. Facts in this case - did not matter to my Ex. Emotions won over. And while I respected her want in a divorce as much as I still loved her - the need for her to be the victim and the want to see me “bleed” was unimaginable and devastating to me. She made my goal of “trying to save my life” about her 100%. So please keep in mind - while Shannon talks of fact here - I’m not quite sure that’s exactly how she handled her own personal situation. And hearing from Jamie herself - might clarify a few things IMO.
Miss Mako did you tell her about your problems before you got married ??
No. There was a major part of me back when I was younger that hoped if I get married - have kids - and just try and "act" male - my gender dysphoria would eventually go away. I was wrong. I hated myself for so long. I expressed a lot of my struggles through music - art - movies. I was also afraid - because I did share this about me with an earlier girlfriend thinking I needed to be as open as I could as we had been going out for 2.5 years - but after I told her - our relationship went downhill and she ended up cheating on me soon afterwards and broke up with me. The only other person I tried to tell when I was about 7 was my mom. She thought it was just a "silly phase" and didn't take me seriously. When I came out to my mom - she had such enormous guilt - and like most of the people close to me - projected her struggles onto me. Some were more extreme than others. My Ex emotionally beat me up the most. We even tried Marriage Counseling together for 6 months - but she quit after being told most of the complications in our marriage were due to her (this was by the counselor she picked herself). I spent much of my life trying to deny or suppress my gender dysphoria. Mostly because I wanted to "be normal" like everyone else. Thanks for asking Cameron.
It's not like self--mutilation is all about you...
Not sure of the point you are trying to make... perhaps you could clarify?
@@MakoDap If you want to butcher your body, which inevitably will have effect on all aspects of your life with other people it is egoistic.
If you try to convince them that nothing gonna change its even worse.
I love this! Thank you TED!!! We need to hear more of these voices!
Shannon Thrace is always a voice of insight, reason, and wisdom, and this comes through in her memoir. I recommend this to everyone.
I absolutely love this Ted talk. The liberal left has become an echo chamber. We need more people showing the reality of transgenderism. The harm it factually and statistically does to the trans person and the people around them, even society. This ideology has gone too far unquestioned. I'm so happy this woman was allowed to speak. I hope more and more people are allowed to have Ted talks over this topic that aren't blindingly supportive of it. Thank you so much for this!!
I wouldn't go as far as all that, I think there are people that genuinely suffer less if they are helped through a full transition and are allowed to live their life as the opposite gender, or near enough. I just think those people are a smaller group than are currently self identified as trans. It seems to be a catch all term of all kinds of feelings of not fitting into your gender of birth.
my husband with male pattern baldness is now claiming to be a woman and demanding my kids call him mom (they are refusing to do so) ... i don't know whether to laugh or cry
Have you thought about asking him to try Psilocybin? I am fascinated by the research and results going on in this field. Amazing success in helping alcoholics or other addictions. I always wondered if it would help treating dysphoria. I’ve never looked into it, but I did see a post on Reddit about a trans male who was on mushrooms and realized by looking in a mirror she was not at all male.
Have you thought about asking him to try Psilocybin? I am fascinated by the research and results going on in this field. Amazing success in helping alcoholics or other addictions. I always wondered if it would help treating dysphoria. I’ve never looked into it, but I did see a post on Reddit about a trans male who was on mushrooms and realized by looking in a mirror she was not at all male.
And I bet your gut is hanging over your belly button and claiming that it's body positivity. Go away with your one-sided venom.
There is a fad fantasy to be trans going on. Needs to be recognized... Not denied. This story amazing but likely more common. I often wonder how it goes for spouses.... And this women is particularly accepting. The ' no debate' stance of trans activists is very concerning.
Depends on the matter i think. Some things should not be debated like that we orbit the stars. But it would seem it's very important now to have a serious dialogue about what is trans and what isn't. To me it is undebatable there is a condition called gender dysphoria that needs serious treatment through transition. But there needs to be a very serious dialogue about where to draw that line. There indeed seems to be a fad going on which indeed harms people. I know some other trans people whom get very angry about it. Like me they feel such a serious condition is not to be made a mockery off but yet, still it seems to be happening with new genders popping up every week and the amount of detransitioners rising. I feel it's good to have a debate about why one needs to transition and have anyone understand how life altering it can be. Because i want it to remain life saving, not life destroying. Being trans sucks. But transition saved me. It's awefull when the fad hurts. None of us want that.
@@fallyn2920 Autogynephilia is a particular type of transitional issue, one that often leaves widows in it's wake, and may not at all be the right answer to the sufferer.
@@tablescissors i agree, true autogynophilia is more of a fetish and should be treated as such. Could even be more in line with schizophrenia. I'm not condemning either but treatment must always ensure long term improved quality of life and i don't think that treating a fetish with medical intervention will solve it in the long run. I don't even think transition is the right answer to gender dysphoria. it's so circumstantial in it's succes rate. It's probably why adults are more capable of making the choice because they got to grow up, weigh their choices and stand a better chance of gaining long term improvement of life from a well balanced choice on what path to deal with their gender dysphoria.
Nailed it. My exact experience, identically.
Heartbreaking
Thank you for sharing your story.
I am so grateful that TED gives us--at last--a critique of the trans-agenda.
haha agenda
So how is your cisgender agenda doing?
'Cisgender' is part of the trans ideology. Those of us who reject the label do so because we reject gender stereotypes, while 'cisgender' implies that we embrace them.
yeah too bad its cis people clearly furthering their cis-agenda
There is a difference between being supportive and playing a role of a supportive person. Your story doesn't leave an impression of a supportive and concerned person. It leaves an impression of a person who feels betrayed and frustrated. If you can't see your partner as a woman you should have said so, instead of being an actress as you put it. It would have saved both of you a lot of suffering. Thank you for sharing this perspective, it's very informative.
Interesting story. It was nice to listen and I'll say she was pretty eloquent in it. I started transitioning at 19 and my experience was completely different, I guess more of the typical thing that was mentioned. I think its good to hear these other stories though. I hope whatever is needed for people like Jamie gets figured out too.
Thanks for sharing sha
Shannon I am sorry for your loss I was honest with my wife of 22 years she knew what i was when we got together she knew the day would come I was there for her and am still are .
Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are not alone.
I'm sorry you went through that and your experiences are completely valid. It sounds like transitioning might not have been right for Jamie. Or maybe there were other things going on that led to the downward spiral. Hard to know since Jamie wouldn't open up to you anymore.
No, transitioning isn't right for everyone who questions their gender.
But I hope you know why it's so dangerous to the trans community for stories like this to become _louder_ than the positive ones. I think it's the danger that silences these conversations.
You don't deserve to be silenced, though.
If the very right for a trans person to exist wasn't under constant threat, I think conversations like this would become much more widely spread.
Your experiences are valid. They can also become a weapon for people who want to misrepresent your message.
This is a dangerous time.
You have the right to share your story right now. And I understand the bitterness and anger I could hear simmering under your words.
I hope you understand that, if trans people can stop being forced to constantly fight for their lives, your story will become much better received.
Thank you for sharing and I wish you all the best.
This was powerful. Thank you for sharing.
The canary in the coal mine. Thank you Shannon.
wonder what Jamie has to say about the whole thing.
Elizabeth Amstutz One thing I found weird is that she never quoted anything her wife said, or reported how the wife described her experience at all, only how SHE saw it / how it affected HER. Big red flag imo (reminds me of the blogger 'issendai's' work looking into estranged parents' forums)
Totally. I found this talk incredibly dangerous. Everything was about her perspective of what her mate was going through. She has no realistic idea how confusing and difficult the process it is to transition and she shouldn't be speaking for her mate. @@moeszyslak3097
@@moeszyslak3097 Not her wife, her husband.
@@Shadowandsoulmebabe Yes, yes, everything that dare to criticize narcissistic self-absorbed crazy men is "dangerous" and should be silenced and canceled. No we are totally not a cult, why do you ask?
@@ShadowSumac LoL!
Thanks for sharing the details
Fascinating. I appreciate this woman's perspective, but I disagree with a couple of her ideas.
First, I think she's a bit misguided about what's acceptable in trans narratives and dialogue. What she described--"Meet Caitlyn! She was formerly known as Bruce, an athlete who won numerous medals in men's competitions, but she has since transitioned!"--is NOT a horrible faux pas. In fact, that's the right way to do it, as long as it's alright with her that people use her deadname. Now, since Caitlyn Jenner is famous and first made her name when she was passing as male, her case is a pretty different than your typical trans person's. Typically, it's unnecessary to mention a trans person's former name or what gender they passed as when you talk about their past, unless you're specifically talking about their transition. In fact, it's often best NOT to mention a trans person's former name, because it can be genuinely unsafe for them if you do, because most cis people jump on the chance to invalidate and/or police the person's gender with harassment, slurs, discrimination, and/or violence once they learn the deadname / learn the person is trans. Now, what WOULD be a faux pas is if you write it as "Look what happened to Bruce! He was an athlete who won numerous medals in men's competitions, but he has since transitioned to become 'Caitlyn' and now wants to be called a 'she'!" This phrasing invalidates Caitlyn's gender by phrasing it as though the gender she was assigned and formerly passed as IS her current (intrinsic) gender, rather than respecting her for who she now is.
I'm also a little concerned that this presenter apparently thinks enjoying IT, video games, and backpacking are obvious signs that someone's happily male and not uncomfortable with their gender...I'm very surprised to learn that I'm happily male, in that case :P
Finally, I think that while there is certainly a place for talking about the downsides and/or alternatives transitioning, we should also be careful not to overrepresent stories like Shannon's, because they skew the discussion negatively. Over ninety percent of trans people do not regret their decision to transition. Can you think of any other major life decision that only 5-10% of people regret making?? At least 30% of people regret getting married, if divorce rates are any indication, and yet we're all for people getting married! So when we talk about these few sad failed transition stories--that is, when we amplify the voices of the very few people who tried being trans and realized it wasn't for them--we have to realize that we're doing that at a time when the vast majority of cis people don't accept trans people as real or worthy of respect as their gender. And so we make it EVEN harder for the VAST majority of trans people, who are satisfied (if not happy or overjoyed) with their transition, to be accepted. Because stories like these only give cis people more excuses to invalidate and refuse to support their trans relatives, friends, or family, who almost certainly actually WILL be happier for having transitioned.
lunelilyonrunescape where did you get your transition stat? The latest studies on transition happiness date back to the 80's/90's. Those studies proved that people who transitioned stayed at the same level of unhappy when they were pre-op or it got worse. which is why John Hopkins hospital didn't do GRS for decades. Recent studies have been banned due to being deemed "transphobic". What studies are you citing?
@Sacha Traviata that is a lie. the current rate of trans satisfaction is: 80% eventually detransition and only 20% are truly happy with the changes
Querent where is your source for that?
@@LuceroLucifer lol stop lying, cite a source otherwise youre BSing
And many transwomen believe (erroneously so) makeup, long hair, and fitted clothing is inherently female...
No cares about antiquated gender stereotypes inflicted upon women, yourself included...
It’s always the woman that suffered
Suffered at what?
We need to stop with the lies. Trans is the furthest thing from beautiful or brave.
It seems like Jamie was a cross-dresser told that cross-dressers were not valid. Although I cannot know what was going through her head at the time.
Well it was/is a paraphilia for Jamie. Paraphilias (especially for men) can sometimes cause an obsessive and all-consuming fixation on the paraphilia, which was in this case cross-dressing and male se*xual submission. For many men, especially those with prior personality disorders and unstable mental health, paraphilias can spin out of control and consume all aspects of one’s life.
For a “normal” person like you and I, our se*xual preferences stay just that: personal preferences that we will really only discuss with our partners. Right?
But for people (again, mostly men) that have paraphilias, they want to turn their se*xual preferences into a lifestyle, and worst of all, can start blending into their “real life.”
Paraphilias. Look it up.
I can relate to this all too well.
This talk took a turn I did not expect
It's obvious, it was a fetish.
Yeah, and if he had gotten any psychological testing at all they would have seen through it. This 'horror' story only serves to feed transphobic people into thinking that transitioning isn't already a really hard and long process. In the Netherlands it takes 6 years and you get really intensive psychological testing. This man would have NEVER gotten through. Her entire argument is pointless.
You're trying to say that it being a fetish is a minority of cases? Because it is not. It is very common. Also judging from what transwomen themselves say. (It's mostly transwomen, transmen have other reasons). But unfortunately we don't have any data, because trans activists are preventing real research in this field from happening.
Here there Who would that be?
Her marriage broke down, she got divorced. Happens all the time, for lots of reasons. No trans person claims early transition is a blissful time. Jamie is apparently the selfish one, but here she is publicizing (and trying to profit on) someone's private struggle.
Lmao I'd bet $20 you're a troon yourself. The anime icon is a giveaway. Her husband was an autogynephile w a personality disorder but yeah, must be her fault somehow.
@cactusitude
bless, thank you
@@cactusitude So true all the autogynephiles use "cute anime girls" as their avatars which they think estrogen will turn them into one like a magical girl lol.
Who else assumed the thumbnail was the transwoman in question.
Autogynephilia.
This was a great talk.
I do not normally comment on videos. But I find this I find this utterly offensive. I don’t think that she understands the deep internal battle the all trans people go through. No cis person ever could. With that being said it is completely okay that a partner fell out of love with person that they married because that person never existed. As a trans woman who spent many years trying to hide who I was on the inside we often do things that to over compensate like grow a beard or have a job that is in a male dominated field. It doesn’t mean that I’m not trans. Everyone has the right to speak openly about their feelings but no one has the right to to tell me that I’m just a fad. I would never change anything about my life.
This! Her feelings and her pain at losing someone close to her are perfectly valid, and that experience should be discussed. It's important. But she's also turning it into a "I got hurt, so I need to show people hte truth" without stopping ot get her facts straight, and will end up causing more harm than any good that discussing the legitimate topics she brings up would.
Her husband is an autogynephile like most of these males that transition later in life.
And you know this how? Do you know her mate? You are making grand assumptions about a topic you have no real concept about.@@gemmal2271
@@Shadowandsoulmebabe Tell me why else would men in their forties/fifties transition into women? other than it's a fetish.
@@gemmal2271 Because people like your self are shaming and are only able to see through narrow eyes. You have no realistic concept of the difficulty it is to transition, when society places huge pressures to live up to what is considered "normal." Educate yourself on the topic, rather than just spewing out ridiculous assumptions because you cannot understand.
Beautiful impressive amazing soul. Great great talk. Thank you, bless you. All your dreams come true.
i'm sorry but there is no "medical intervention" for 4 /y/o children. the earliest any treatment makes sense is at 11 or 12 and those are hormone blockers whose effects are 100% reversible. children younger than that may change wardrobe, pronouns or names, all of those things can be reversed if a child doesn't think it's right for them.
Erm. How is stopping puberty for a few years "reversible" ?!
@@rhodwilliams7258 it is not. There is barely any science on it because it's so new and noone bothered to fully research it before testing it on kids as guinea pigs. But there is already some evidence that hormone treatment as a whole, and especially so early, causes various damages in the brain, lowering IQ, lowering bone density etc.
@@rhodwilliams7258 IDK, taking hormones later in life?
Puberty blockers are not reversible and cause all kinds of horrible health issues later in life.
A single account of an ex-partner’s experience is interesting but hardly generalisable nor necessarily persuasive. There will always be folk who are outliers and seek to deny the experience of the vast majority. With less than 1 per cent of mtf regretting their decision to transition and only conservative treatment available to teens her unhappy experience serves only to bring out haters who quickly wish to deny and to erase the experience of others. Disappointing to see many of the comments but this seems to reflect the bigotry and hatred that the trans community has suffered for so long. Increasing numbers seeking help reflect greater awareness and more generosity than has previously existed. Being trans is not a choice but it appears,in this case at least, to encourage bigotry and erasure. Happy New Year.
Thank you for your eloquent comment: I felt uneasy since the minute she began speaking.
Increasing by turning into your cult people with depression and self-doubt? You are no better than any other vile and toxic cult out there. And you will end up the same way.
@@ShadowSumac Sweetie are you OK? You seem to have tumbled down the wrong rabbit hole; seek help before you hurt someone!
I don't hurt people unlike you, darling.
@@ShadowSumacThis ought to be good: how so?
Maybe the number of people that identify as trans has increased so much because it is now starting to be okay to be yourself. This is obvious an extreme case and you are getting overly aggressive about your generalizations. People need to be loved and if a trans person is seen as unlovable and alien then of course they will be depressed. Think about that for a lil bit and get back to me, thanks.
Or maybe it have increased due to the rampant propaganda and trans becoming a fad.
No-one in their right mind would admire their medical condition and use it as a political tool and a way to gather admiration and sympathy.
Most of the trans people are unloved because they are volatile and toxic. In fact, most of the time they are this way even before transition, which only makes their depression and hatred even bigger.
@@ShadowSumac way to generalise, you dont know what you're talking about
@@chiaraballon1556 Wrong.
@@ShadowSumac many trans people arent toxic and are nice people, unlike you of course
Sounds like a bitter ex trashing their former partner to me.
Idk I don't agree with all the points she was making but I do get it. Im trans myself and I'm one of the stories with a happy ending but my ex isn't the same he was a relatively happy girl when I met him and now has transitioned to a man and he is miserable
I just think that people that transition, or plan to, need to consider both outcomes fairly. It's not transphobic to say that some people will be made unhappier by going through transition. And ideally therapy should help weed them out before they do irreversible damage to their bodies. E.g., some FTMs feel really amazing in their new bodies; some discover later that having top surgery was a bad choice and left them feeling mutilated. I understand that people want full bodily autonomy and access to health care that doesn't amount to jumping through too many hoops, but I think there isn't good research to help predict whether the surgical and hormonal intervention will help get rid of the feelings of dysphoria for any one person.
Thank you
Shannon is a very brave Woman to offer her truths in this matter.
There are truly 2 sides to all stories.
Transition is not linear. We all transition differently!
Yes alot of them transition because of a fetish
Ok I totally get it there are two sides to every coin. Both sides hold the same value. As a Trans woman my transition has been one were I am the Happiest I've ever been and the best choice I've ever made. But there are some who have taken that journey thinking it was for them, but sadly they didn't experience the best outcome. My heart goes out to them fully. But I felt like she was saying that's the norm and being happy isn't happening as much. I could be wrong but it felt like she blamed the trans community for her marriage ending. There was a huge chip on her shoulder, rightfully so. Her beef should be with her ex and how they handled it not me and my sisters. Because of the increased visibility I was able to come out and live my truth and again never been happier and positive about life and others. Her story should be told and heard. I just felt like she blamed the Trans Community more then the actions of her spouse, who clearly handled it all wrong. But there's no playbook for transitioning and we all walk a different path to get to our goals and we don't always choose wisely but that's on us as an individual not our community. Now that said I'm all about reading her book.
It is not easy to transition, and sometimes we have to let it go. We think that we are super open minded and accept everyone, but if it makes us hurt, we do everything we can to make our point. She may just wanted to be herself and meet other people, and go through her journey alone....Thank you for sharing, I totally understand.
Or maybe he was just a crazy person.
We don't need TED talks for this. Your narrative is the one they all believe anyway. You're only speaking what society has told you, over and over again, that trans people aren't real or are faking it. No wonder your wife was miserable and depressed and that your marriage fell apart. You're not speaking some unspoken argument, we hear this every single day across a variety of outlets. I'm sure your ex-wife just needed validation and love, 2 things your fear prevented you from giving.
You are very brave and strong. I would love to play in a viola section with you.
So did he kill himself
Well done ❤️
I am surprised this was allowed on Ted and YT. Then again not surprised by the content she presented as I have met beautiful women whose husbands came out as transwomen and led to failure of their marriage
wow this is amazing! so true
I agree that we should be able to openly discuss the experiences of trans people that don't fit the standard narrative, but 70% of this talk comes across as transphobic dogwhistling. I have a hard time believing that this woman is actually interested in helping the trans community.
Problem is that anyone who questions the trans narrative is deemed transphobic. And before you accuse her of "dog whistling" maybe walk a mile in her shoes?
Do you need it spelled out? The guy isn't trans, he's an autogynaephile who is appropriating the identity.
I have no idea where this comment came from, I don't talk like that if anything I'm for the woman's side. I'm finding more & more comments that I never made. I have an idea C.F..
am I missunderstanding or did Jamie only transsition to wear womens cloths without beenig judged for it? To want to wear the "other" genders cloaths dose not nessesaraly meen to "go from a to b" gender experssion is a spectrum.
The revisionism is so cruel
You do present another side to the debate. I do not agree with you and the compassion you talk about is usually absent.
I hope this womans marriage was not nullified altogether as Germaine Greer mentioned happened to some wife in Australia.
Sounds like she's unable to let go. Her transphobia is apparent to me. There is some truth in what she's saying, however, her pain has masked her judgement.
Just like we have to listen to the side of trans people, we must listen to the side of the people it effects. Neither side is morally Superior to the other. What this speaker felt and went through is real, valid and free of discrimination. Dismissing her because she doesn't believe in the ideology is not a good reason. This is why the liberal left is an echo chamber. Listen to others. She's not mean or degrading. She's expressing her reality thoughtfully.
Bugged_Out_Frankie hard to make calls without hearing her ex wife’s testimony ay. Stories will always tip over our views of the world if we are open.
i love how IT, whiskey, camping, and video games, etc., are only for men, apparently. *rolls eyes* although i agree with a lot of what she says, i am also concerned about her tone of voice (sour with some lashing out and lots of defensiveness to it), which, while understandable (due to the amount of criticism she has received for sharing her truth and ideas and because in the end she is still just a formerly married person who now hates or at least still has deep, unresolved issues with her ex, no matter the gender, like many other divorced/separated people do), is not the best way to present her case or to give a speech.
Xiao Mao! well, yours could use some work.
So her only option is to suffer in silence and not share her experience and the negative impact it had on her? Okay, chief. I love how consent and validation goes out of the window if the person whose feelings need to be validated is a straight woman, not an AMAB
It sounded like she was identifying another thing transpeople aren't allowed to have. Being unhappy with themselves. The symptoms she described about Jamie, can be applied to straight men for a number of reasons. FTM transition, from what I know of it, can be a hit or miss like anything else in life. The negative side-effects inflicted on their marriage weren't caused by Jamie's transition. Rather, it sounded more like Jamie's inability to accept the person she is. Shannon expressed her bitterness to the audience as she spoke about how her husband should stayed the man she married. I can only imagine how Shannon expressed herself to Jamie.
I can say from personal experience that I was completely numb to my body and feelings before I came out. Whatever part of me people "lose" was a front that toxic masculinity forced me to put on. It has been tough on my relationship sometimes, but they know that this isn't a choice for me.
The fact people keep reducing the person's decision to delusion or a fetish is the best sign that this is not "transition is tough here's how it affected me" but rather "i wish they did not realize their feelings because I can no longer be validated as a woman my partner according to my standards"
YES! Thank you. It took me years to settle into the person I am. Years after starting transition. Years after I became cis-passing. Because guess what, years of shame and all the coping/defense mechanisms created in those years don't just disappear when you decide to transition (however you define that). And realizing you trans, coming out as trans, actually accepting you are trans, and truly loving the entire person you are (including the body you have regardless of whether you have chosen to take steps to physically change it) are all different pieces of the journey. For some, no physical change is needed; for others, as soon as certain physical changes occur, that is enough; for still others, all the physical change in the world could occur and there would still be internal work to be done. For most, I think it's probably a mix, but then isn't self acceptance and self-love that way for all humans, trans or not?
So.. the people who loved you for yourself don't count? Wow, you don't think it's possible that someone who loves you can be sad about the fact that you hate yourself and want to get your body carved up to superficially resemble something you'll never be? Whatever happened to self-acceptance and bodily integrity?
@@cybeleturner4435 You seemingly had more problems with stereotypes rather than body.
Since they can’t beat up trans people in real life the violence has to come from the words. Trans people don’t “carve them selves up” they aren’t mutilating themselves... you will continue to use these terms & and others will step in line - but voluntarily engaging with the trans community and vomiting that is entirely unacceptable. I work in healthcare and this isn’t criticism, it isn’t truth- it’s overt hostility. Trans people aren’t going away no matter how uncomfortable it makes you feel. 😠
I sat here and listened respectfully. I think you're use of your ex's pronouns was rude. I think you're invalidating your ex's identity over there inconveniences you experienced which is rude. I think you wouldn't have been successful in your marriage anyway because apparently when new boundaries were set, you did a Ted talk about how you think transition is harmful instead of respecting the boundaries. Instead of letting go of your marriage over your clear discomfort with trans women you set out to attack them. You're ex partner isn't in the wrong for trying to become the woman she wanted to be. You are for feeling betrayed. Sorry you can't get over yourself.
Exactly, this woman went full TERF and instead decided to try and cut down all trans people because of her estranged and former husband. She completely distorts facts. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support trans affirming healthcare, it is why it is becoming more readily available - because the data shows it is a benefit for most people who seek it. From WPATH to APA, all the data shows it is the best approach to improving the quality of life of trans people.
gaslighter
@@AT-rj5lh girl boss, gatekeep
@@Scooge420 chromosomes gatekeep much yeah, i'm sure they have no problem in Afghanistan where there are real issues knowing who is a woman lol
You really didn't listen. And it's important to understand that Autogynephilia, speaking about it, or raising awareness is not always immediately connected to being a TERF (a term always happily used as a slur by ppl who claim to claim to condemn them).
Trans people also struggle with the presence of such mindsets. It's allowed to be discussed.
So this wife of the trans woman that's great she accepted her and support her I've hered some trans woman tell me that were married ended in horrible story s it's great see couples support each other that's how sould be .
Would like to hear an update from your “husband” and I hope she does not go back to whiskey.
I wonder if a receding hairline is often a factor in the dysphoria?
Your question seems too vague, maybe baiting. Please elaborate.
Someone's salty. LMFAO. And I applaud her for telling how she saw the story. But in all honesty... how you see a story is how you see it... theirs always 3 sides. What you see, What She See's and what actually happened.
Furthermore, a doctor is not going to put a 4 year old on estrogen, but if that child wants to begin living as the opposite gender, who do you think you are to stop them? A child has every right to voice what they feel inside, and when a child reaches pre-adolescence, they should be allowed to go on hormone blocking medication until the legal age that they can begin the hormones that they choose. To force someone to go through a bodily transformation they do not want is violence.
Not familiar with the Hippocratic oath then?
left to their own devices 80% of kids & teens eventually desist before adulthood, so if you allowed them to transition before then, you'd get it wrong 80% of the time.
@@FreeTheDonbas Good for them! All children should be allowed to express themselves as they see fit. I didn't say they should medically transition before their legal age. I intended to convey that they should be allowed to express their gender by wearing the clothes and personhood that is right for them, and at puberty they should be allowed to take blockers until they are old enough to decide for themselves.
Forcing a child to go through puberty before they are ready is violence, whether they are trans or cis.
Sounds like someone skipped the most important step - therapy to address the issues and work through it to a positive outcome. Not everyone transitions and only those with extensive therapy are allowed medical intervention especially children seeking hormone blockers. Considering de-transition happens in less than 1/10 of 1%, its a rare fact most likely caused by failure of honest therapy and not adhering to the RLT (real life test) for a full year prior to any major medical procedure. Its an imperfect world and unfortunately like the rest of medical procedures there will be failures in some portion of the population.
Extensive therapy prior to medical intervention has not been what I have personally experienced. I have a close relative who is transitioning. There was not much therapy involved at all. As a result, I have watched this person become quite destructive in their own life and it has spilled over into my life and other family members. I can relate to what Shannon shared. It isn't a happy story. I feel like it's demanded that I validate and accept something that I know isn't true. Any questions or concerns, anything but unquestioning agreement labels me as a bigot and close-minded. In truth, I care about the person very much and I am concerned for them. That is precisely why I have questions and concerns. These issues are deep and complex. To be handled responsibly, there needs to be an open dialogue, and objective research.
Shannon has some good points but is also going too far. I am not sure what to think.
I am sorry for your story, I am a trans fluid, I am a husband male to my wife and as a female, I am a lot happier have more positive support as female then I ever had a male. I will always be a father a brother and a husband. So there are a few of us that can be happy and still be who we were before and that is not always what we were told when we were born. So far I can say it saved my marriage and yes my wife is 100% straight, we found a great support group, a church, a great family, and friends.
It’s because your male and everyone knows it..that’s why your getting so much support claiming to be female. sorry, but it’s just offensive to appropriate the identity of women and to presume to have any idea what it is to exist in and navigate this society that is structured to devalue, degrade, and disadvantage the people who are in fact female?