Menu: ===== Is there are future in networking? 0:00 Ivan Peppelnjak CCIE 1345 Emeritus: 1:04 Should I study networking or rather something else? 1:44 You are designing Power Transmission: 3:11 What is an expert? And engineer? 4:10 Ivan's snark: 5:35 Levels of expertise: 5:53 I'm starting out - will I be successful? 6:58 Are certs and degrees valuable? 8:36 Young people are struggling? 11:34 How do I get experience? 11:52 It brought you to this table, now what? 13:15 You're got to do something: 14:24 What about social media? 14:44 You have to build your brand: 16:02 What brand are you going to build? 16:38 Perfect is the enemy: 17:45 What brand? 18:50 What about LinkedIn? 19:04 Why not get experience? 20:33 Social media reach: 22:15 Own the content: 23:25 Ivan's rant: 24:25 What about Cisco DevNet certs? 26:18 Will network engineers be replaced: 28:18 Does this make sense? 29:30 What about the past? 30:30 What should I learn? 32:30 Previous videos: The top 10 skills Network Engineers need to learn in 2019: czcams.com/video/grS__DS3v7c/video.html What should I do: czcams.com/video/BmnRf0HCy_Q/video.html ================ Connect with Ivan: ================ Website: bit.ly/2Hci4oL Twitter: twitter.com/ioshints LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ivanpepelnjak/ ================ Connect with me: ================ Discord: discord.com/invite/usKSyzb Twitter: twitter.com/davidbombal Instagram: instagram.com/davidbombal LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/davidbombal Facebook: facebook.com/davidbombal.co TikTok: tiktok.com/@davidbombal CZcams: czcams.com/users/davidbombal ================ Support me: ================ DavidBombal.com: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/yt999ccna Udemy CCNA Course: bit.ly/ccnafor10dollars GNS3 CCNA Course: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/gns3ccna10 ====================== Special Offers: ====================== Boson software: 15% discount Link: bit.ly/boson15 Code: DBAF15P
when the next part of this talk will be uploaded ?? is that all ready upload. thanks for this video because i have been waiting for this kind of explanation thanks @David Bombal and lvan peppelnjak
"Every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys? The Cloud guys? Or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" Wow. What a way to end an interview. Thanks David , and Ivan.
@Keith Barker wierd how I took a break from one of your CBT Nuggets (CCNP OSPF Network Types) to come watch this video and I see you over here in the comments!!
Not necessarily. Sometimes a job is available and you do not meet the minimum requirements and it may only take you communicating with the hiring manager and conveying your interest. If you ask about it and start a dialog you can sell your self by either demonstrating or providing examples of the things you know, things you did and are doing. A lot of the time, hiring managers can lower the requirments so you can get past HR. You do not need to be an expert but you do need to have a attitude that's speaks confidence that you know what you can do but also know you need to get better and will get better no matter what
Anyone who goes through this man can never come out an ordinary engineer. He even talks like the old real-deal scientists we read of in history. Thanks David for this session.
As a network engineer for nearly 15 years, I found this interview incredibly interesting and full of hard/sharp truths. One area where I have a different perspective however is regarding VOIP as just another application. As network engineers, you should care a lot about applications and how they behave. After all, customers really don't care what technology a network uses, weather its OSPF, MPLS, SD-WAN, all customers want is a good application experience.
Great feedback and viewpoint Kevin. I don't agree with everything Ivan says, but he definitely gives us a lot to think about and shares from a wealth of experience and knowledge.
@@davidbombal Thanks David. Again i'd like to say it was a great interview. If anything, I have been inspired to start tinkering around with hugo and create some content!
Sir I'm obsessed with this career but does it require mathematics skills like I'm weak when it comes to it. But my dream was technical careers always such as network engineer
"Learn the fundamentals" because "every network is going to go down at some point" and you need to know the basics to be able to troubleshoot it. Today i'm in the position to do job interviews myself, one of my favorite questions was "Host A pings to Host B via Router C, all caches empty". "Explain exactly on Layer2 & 3, what what packets are generated by what devices." It is just astonishing how my people fail. Recently i changed job and got asked basically the same question. I had a good laugh, and after explanation, the interviewer laughed along :) So yeah, learn the basics!
Love this guy and his honesty. “Who cares about Cisco CLI” and “90% of CCNA is marketing crap”! Both quite true comments. I’ve been a Network engineer for over 10 years and I’ve never held a Cisco certificate. I’m now a network architect, but I use a wide range of vendors. The certificate gets you your first and maybe second job. After that, it’s about proven experience. So many employers want their experts to have a wide array of vendors and skills, not just someone who can build a Cisco R&S network. Don’t get me wrong, you MUST learn the fundamentals of networking, but they don’t need to be vendor specific for many organisations!
@@TheyCallMeMannes that’s a real shame! There are so many strong engineers that haven’t followed the Cisco certification path. Don’t get me wrong, learning the material is beneficial, but if you don’t necessarily “need” the certificate, then I just wouldn’t go for the exam. I’ve just recently been offered a new network architect role for a company that owns one of the biggest chain of holiday parks in the UK. I went up against several other Cisco certified engineers and took part in a 4 stage process. I ended up being offered the role and getting myself a £20k increase in salary! My point is, it’s not always about qualifications, a lot of roles now want someone with a personality, who is approachable, isn’t awkward, can explain complex issues in a simple way to customers, but also has the technical knowledge to a satisfactory level, or can at least find the answer when necessary.
@@resedent2009 in Germany they don't really like people who don't have an official certification for something. let me give you another example. even on TV, when presenting someone that has skills about something, if that person is self taught, they make sure they mention it (the term is selbstgelernter) as in to make the difference between someone who studied for that something and someone who may have gained experience almost by try-and-error or from untrusted sources, without attending any classes to learn about that "something" from someone qualified. Moreover, even though I've been an IT engineer in the field of Linux and networking since 2007, who studied telecommunications at Uni and even has a master's degree, until I got the CCNA certification, I couldn't nail a true network engineer job. All the recruiters I was in contact with said the same, even though I have the qualification I don't have the certification. On the other hand, a regular Linux admin doesn't need such a proof of knowledge, a solid background and experience being more than enough.
Last few minutes were superb of this interview. Thanks David & Ivan for motivating & inspiring thousands of Network Engineers like me who really don't know what to learn next and which one is best among available options
Can we get another interview session with Ivan? He is a great person to guide us in a better way. If he share some idea about the learning path(short term or long term) that could be very helpful. Also I would thank you for this amazing video.
"You can't find anything? Join an open-source project! Write documentation, write unit tests." - I whole-heartedly agree! As the creator of the Ostinato traffic generator for network engineers, here's something right in the alley - there's a lot of demand for Ostinato tutorials (as David can attest to, I guess) and I'm just not able to find the time for it!
I think network engineers will not dissappear but their work will adapt to the emerging technologies that are now changing the game. They will gain more knowledge in other areas such as coding and cybersecurity.
Network engineers are always going to be in business. After all, Network is what connects all these clouds together. My entire career started by understanding the first 3 layers of OSI model (school + ISP job). this knowledge is a very solid foundation that allows you to move further in a lot of directions. Ok, I'll check out the interview now ^_^
This is so true and accurate. I'm 23 and I had my CCNA certification last 2019, and yes certifications don't mean anything if you barely have any skills to show your employer. Work experiences are much more preferred when applying for a job, especially here in the country that I'm residing. So it's really best to hone your skills before you set out for a professional career.
Interesting perspective, learn the fundamentals, I appreciate this information. Like a thousands of people I'm looking for a valuable knowledge that help me to keep growing into IT and network solutions, but everyone is pushing for devops and software engineering. Sometimes seems like employers don't appreciate network engineers, just programmers.
First off thank you David for these videos. As someone without a father, these interview types of videos have given me direction, insight and providing answers to questions, I imagine I'd ask my father.
Hi San...I consider Dennis Prager one of my father figures. Try listening to his radio show sometime. I truly believe you’ll benefit as I have over the years
I was looking to see if anyone else pointed it out as well. The way he puts networking into perspective separate of the applications isn't something you seem to hear often today. I am not into the field just yet and am studying for my CCNA, and from a lot of what I was reading it was sounding like the two roles were being merged into one. Was interesting to hear his take on the current landscape.
This interview is really good and I appreciate the advice given here. I do think it could be unrealistic for people to carve time to go volunteer to gather experience when people are trying to survive at this point.
Very insightful. In my experience, I have always believed abstraction has a few downsides. The good part is abstraction expedites the building of software, networks, and other complex stuff by avoiding complexity, and focusing on the domain. But when things break, folks with clear fundamentals and good troubleshooting skills are the ones that save the day. If someone is building a good abstraction, then it is their responsibility to build tools for that ecosystem, that will help instrument that layer of abstraction.
I am getting into my CCNA I hope to get my certificate this year but honestly all this stuff about networking changes get me a little anxious becuse I think I am fallen behind but after seeing this video and how ivan ended this interview thanks fundamentals obviously will be important always. Thanks David for this video.
I've been a network engineer for a good number of years now and would like to share my experience with hardest part, "how do I get experience". I worked for a company (not network engineer) and I was studying CCNA. I went upstairs and found the NOC manager and told them I was studying and wanted to be a network engineer. I asked if I could come up and meet the team and shoulder a few of the guys, learn what they did. A vacancy came up eventually and I got the job. I don't think it was because I was good, I wasn't.. I sucked. But I put myself ahead of the "identical CVs" by showing my face and my interest. I was so scared before doing it (I'm quite shy) but I'm so glad I did. My fear of rejection was my biggest barrier, not my capabilities or knowledge. Learning is the easy bit. Best of luck for anyone attempting to get into networking, we need you.. Good engineers are hard to find :)
Strongly agree with "fundamentals" thing, basic routing and switching never gets old and it solves 90% of the stuff you may think off, don't focus on specifics, because you'll never master basics(which is 80% of the stuff in ccie R&S track) in that case. But I disagree with the point of "find another developer and let him write the code, because he does that better". In my experience, coding knowledge works in conjunction with your networking skills resulting in synergy in both fields. There are not that many good network engineers, and even less network engineers who can code, but when you become such person - it gives you much more, than learning another useless vendor track or technology, because the ability to code is also BASIC stuff you can use throughout you whole career. Also, there's a logical error. If a guy works as a backend developer for 10 years, it doesn't mean he knows python well. And assuming that you can't measure this guys knowledge in advance means that you're just believe that every software engineer working the same amount of years has the same professional value as you in your field, which is simply not true. So, learn to code guys, but basics first! :)
Great video! Love the new content :) - Love at the end "if the network is down, who will troubleshoot it? the python guys ? the cloud guys ? ... or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" .. gives me confidence to continue studying and progressing in networking!
@@davidbombal That would be an understatement! Your like my mentor in networking and life! :) got my CCNA exam booked for next month, after completing your course on Udemy!
Volunteering to friends and family is the way I got a lot of my experience. Working for your schools IT as a great way to keep focused on your studies too!!
best jobs are the ones that you don't applies to , the best jobs are the ones that are created for you because they wants you omg that's super motivational , this is really epic interview
Thank you David for this amazing and eye opening video and a big thank you to one and only Ivan peppelnjak for such a honest, to the point and clear point of view for network engineer. At one point when Ivan said that "The best jobs are the ones that you don't apply to. The best jobs are job that are created for you because they want you." It hit me really hard and motivated me.
In your many videos, I found some sentences which really made me think twice/ multiple times sometime. In this video, the sentence was " the definition of best job, which are made for you, because they want you" !! really wonderful!
If you are just starting out, I will suggest to do CCNA/JNCIA with an associate cloud certification from AWS or Microsoft. In this way, you are ready to jump in traditional network, cloud and hybrid cloud.
Ivan is a thoughtful gentleman, and I love all his ideas. The way he delivers is smart and practical. "And eventually every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys, the Cloud guys, or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals? " He doesn't say just a thought, it is a motivation.
🔰 Alot of people don’t understand Jorge; His advice is pure gold. You don’t need to buy Jorge’s coaching to discern his valuable and tangible advice. Many times it’s not the best technical person that get the job, but the person who can use their soft skills to articulate.
I totally agree when he said about learning the fundamentals for the long term. People may learn about SDN, SD-WAN, network automation, etc, but they are all about get things done faster and more efficient. And maybe in the next 5 years there will be something new, faster and more efficient to replace those. The fundamentals? the IP routing, ethernet, arp, tcp, they are still the same and they will be for the long term. And the guy who learn and master the fundamentals is a network engineer, so network engineer will always be needed.
I don't agree ivan on many things in this video but respect his opinion, I'm a computer science student in the UK with a background in engineering but your content is always great david.
I have to seriously recommend one thing. Ivan needs to make some content that is just purely his philosophical perspectives on life. Davids videos have really propelled me in interest and guidance in more than just networking, I come from a Mikrotik background but have been working towards Cisco stuff more and more. Then this video came along and I felt like a student of a ancient monk, one that had all of the answers, and most of what you talk about, in relation to what David asks, also reaches many other areas of life and behaviors and discipline, well beyond just the networking parts. This video and the following one, was an actual profound moment where some serious life lessons and reflections were very much comprehended and relatable. Great job to both and looking forward to more content. David does a great job on finding people that can share their stories and insights and make even us nobodies relate and become more engaged and interested. KEEP IT UP :)
Spot on! That's how I launched my career. I was hired when I was 15 or 16 writing code for the Apple II. Still in high school. And that kicked off my 40-year career as a software engineer. Just Do It!
Hi David, we met @ Cisco Live in 2019. We discussed this very topic and what we do at Google. Ivan's mostly right although I have a different perspective on skills, taking on software skills. Taking next 3 years to learn coding/software will not be a waste and would be generally a more durable investment than learning any particular vendor technology. Programming should be part of the fundamental repertoire for a network engineer.
1 - Do something> Anything if you are a beginner; Fix your network, fix someone else's network, take things apart, understand them. Show that on a interview and talk about it in your CV. Why are you different? 2 - Certifications are good but not everything> Just as a college curriculum, it is a structured way of learning. It ends up implying much more than just what you have learned. It means that you can dedicate your time to learn, structured thinking. But more than that, how can you aggregate value for a company or for someone you are/want to work for, besides a certification? 3 - Document what you do > Choose less ephemeral platforms where your work can be found. Prefer to set up your own website or blog. Just as before, it implies that you took the time, learned how to set up a website, probably learned some cloud on the way, tools, CI/CD, networking.. etc. And then link it on your LinkedIn, FB, whatever. You end up owning that. 4 - Learn the fundamentals > Fundamentals support you on the long run. Frameworks change, cloud changes, but the underlying fundamentals of networking or whatever you are dedicated to are more solid and just as a foundation to a building, supports everything else to come on that field. That's what I took from the interview. Awesome content by the way!
THANKYOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR THIS INTERVIEW , REALLYY LIT MY HEART AND MY MIND .I LEFT CCNA HALWAY THRU , WAS IN DILEMMA REGARDING CARRER AND LOST .. THIS VIDEO BROUGHT A RAY OF HOPE IN ME ..AND SPECIALLY THE WAY IVAN SPOKE !!! I FELT LIKE MY DAD WAS TALKING .. SO MTIVATIONAL !! PLS UPLOAD MOREEE .. U JUST GOT A NEW SUBSCRIBER .THIS IS THE FIRST VIDEO I WATCHED OF YOUR CHANNEL THAT I STUMBLED ACROSS THIS DAY !!! GREAT VIDEO ... CLEARED MY DOUBTS ..AND MOTIVATED ME !!THANKYOU
Hi David, it is amazing the way you understand people who are wanting or already trying to get into this networking path. I really noticed all your interventions were about to guide your audience. Great interview.
Need more people like Ivan in this world. Unfortunately in my experience companies don’t show much respect to people with knowledge of fundamentals. Usually the common theme is do it fast and under budget so that managers look great and most importantly forget quality of work.
I believe that an engineer shouldn't be the best at anything, but shouldn't be caught off guard by anything. Yes, you may have an area of expertise like networking, but you should know at least a medium level of programming, cybersecurity and the rest of the stuff, and this means to be a good engineer in this domain, it will take you a minimum of 10 years, not just one year one certification, boom i am an engineer, the true engineering is being in the middle of every aspects of it, and learn new things every day, and somehow figure out a solution, the engineer must the solving stuff guy, and for that you really need to know, everything about anything.
Understand his point, however when there is a problem which needs fixing you are far better off if you have multiple skillsets. I am usually the one the team comes to when they need something fixed. Those that have only focused on one area have difficulty working out whos remit an issue falls under. While others debate trying to figure out where the issue is, someone with a broader understanding has already pinpointed the location of the problem, knows what skillset will be required to fix it, and if not within their skillset, has already delegated the problem to the appropriate person with an explanation of the issue. People think about these things too linearly imo; people don't work like that. They can be adept at more than one thing, and have fundamental knowledge of some other areas to compliment. If you want to be able to fix something, having a fundamental understanding of other branches is invaluable. It takes away the whole squabble of whether the issue is networks, systems, or development, which just wastes time. No one bats an eye at a GP, so strive to be a GP of I.T.
I generally picture Network Engineering as being a "plumber." I am currently a Jr. Network admin after years of working at an MSP, and my higher ups are definitley training me in a trade. To understand how internet communication works on the fundamental level will always be a needed skill.
Absolutely, Your guest is talking from an engineering perspective which is trying to build people with Design and innovation knowledge more than creating operators and technology smart users. CCNA certificate has survived all that years because of its network principles and IEEE standards contents.
Its all about value, show the work ethic, projects you have done at home or in the world. Showing the follow through and that your not scared to take on the next new thing.
This is certainly the most interesting video I've seen about Networking's future. Thank you for your coverage, and in fact, I think I'm exactly the audience for this video. You've answered mostly all points I question myself. Thanks to Ivan, which I really like for his point of view, I found myself some good answer about what I'll do next. I will just mention this : "Eventually, every environement will get to a point where the network will be down, and who will troubleshoot that, the python guys, the cloud guys, or someone who took time to learn the fundamentals ?" That is THE good question.
The points Ivan makes are very familiar. I went through the cert route, without really spending sufficient time on the basics, only to have to circle back after I got my entry level job. Troubleshooting will expose your weaknesses very quickly. I'd also add that work ethic is a massive plus. You can teach skills, but not a personality or drive. I've worked with some terrible CCIE's who were just lazy and arrogant, but some wonderful ones too and wonderful Network + engineers. great info David, many thanks for the new folks.
This is a great video David. It's hard to overstate just how valuable Ivan's commentary or how relevant to aspiring 'Engineers' of all levels of experience this is. Thank you :)
It was a good interview. Especially the very last part impressed me. Being faithful to the basics is what I emphasize after working in this industry for over 20 years. In the current network environment where everything cannot be changed at once, only overlay technology is being emphasized, but the reality is that fewer and fewer people understand the basic technology of underlay.
Good interview! Ivan is right getting your experience doesn’t have to be in a professional job you get your experience by doing free work when you are starting out. If you don’t have the drive it will be hard to get the experience.
When he said we thought we were special and demigods and we are not that hit a nerve. I have worked with dozens upon dozens of networking engineers over the span of 20+ years and this was something that I always knew existed in various circles but never took the time to put it to words.
Menu:
=====
Is there are future in networking? 0:00
Ivan Peppelnjak CCIE 1345 Emeritus: 1:04
Should I study networking or rather something else? 1:44
You are designing Power Transmission: 3:11
What is an expert? And engineer? 4:10
Ivan's snark: 5:35
Levels of expertise: 5:53
I'm starting out - will I be successful? 6:58
Are certs and degrees valuable? 8:36
Young people are struggling? 11:34
How do I get experience? 11:52
It brought you to this table, now what? 13:15
You're got to do something: 14:24
What about social media? 14:44
You have to build your brand: 16:02
What brand are you going to build? 16:38
Perfect is the enemy: 17:45
What brand? 18:50
What about LinkedIn? 19:04
Why not get experience? 20:33
Social media reach: 22:15
Own the content: 23:25
Ivan's rant: 24:25
What about Cisco DevNet certs? 26:18
Will network engineers be replaced: 28:18
Does this make sense? 29:30
What about the past? 30:30
What should I learn? 32:30
Previous videos:
The top 10 skills Network Engineers need to learn in 2019: czcams.com/video/grS__DS3v7c/video.html
What should I do: czcams.com/video/BmnRf0HCy_Q/video.html
================
Connect with Ivan:
================
Website: bit.ly/2Hci4oL
Twitter: twitter.com/ioshints
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ivanpepelnjak/
================
Connect with me:
================
Discord: discord.com/invite/usKSyzb
Twitter: twitter.com/davidbombal
Instagram: instagram.com/davidbombal
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/davidbombal
Facebook: facebook.com/davidbombal.co
TikTok: tiktok.com/@davidbombal
CZcams: czcams.com/users/davidbombal
================
Support me:
================
DavidBombal.com: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/yt999ccna
Udemy CCNA Course: bit.ly/ccnafor10dollars
GNS3 CCNA Course: CCNA ($10): bit.ly/gns3ccna10
======================
Special Offers:
======================
Boson software: 15% discount
Link: bit.ly/boson15
Code: DBAF15P
who is the host? couldn't find his name in subtitle
@@abdullahalbuali1807 I'm David Bombal and I'm interviewing Ivan Peppelnjak - check the video description for his details.
Thank you
Thanks, dad! Loved the perspective!
when the next part of this talk will be uploaded ?? is that all ready upload. thanks for this video because i have been waiting for this kind of explanation thanks @David Bombal and lvan peppelnjak
"Every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys? The Cloud guys? Or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" Wow. What a way to end an interview. Thanks David , and Ivan.
the cloud guys know everything that a networking guy knows ... he just also knows cloud ..
Thanks Bruce!
@@myname-mz3lo Wao those clouds guys of u are unicorns
@@myname-mz3lo totally incorrect
@@myname-mz3lo they certainly don't. Cloud guys may no the basics but that is all
“The best jobs are the jobs that are created for you. “
On point!
Ivan is an amazing guy! :)
@@davidbombal yes he is!
Content creator creating opportunities for everyone!
Job created for you..
Right next to the leprechaun and unicorn under the rainbow...REALLY?
Great interview. Thank you David and Ivan. Loved it❗
@Keith Barker wierd how I took a break from one of your CBT Nuggets (CCNP OSPF Network Types) to come watch this video and I see you over here in the comments!!
This got me "The best jobs are the jobs that are created for you because they want you" A very captivating Assertion.
Ivan is great :)
ya it sounds cool but it doesnt help most of us .. it only helps people that are experts already
Agreed!!!
Not necessarily. Sometimes a job is available and you do not meet the minimum requirements and it may only take you communicating with the hiring manager and conveying your interest. If you ask about it and start a dialog you can sell your self by either demonstrating or providing examples of the things you know, things you did and are doing. A lot of the time, hiring managers can lower the requirments so you can get past HR. You do not need to be an expert but you do need to have a attitude that's speaks confidence that you know what you can do but also know you need to get better and will get better no matter what
@@YZIOHP that's not what he meant. They wouldn't be making the position for you..
My dad always told me that "GREAT PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS HUMBLE ' .I saw one more example of humbleness and knowledge.
"it is still transporting more ipv4 than ipv6" .........................."OSPF is there, BGP will not go anywhere" these two quotes made my life...
Anyone who goes through this man can never come out an ordinary engineer. He even talks like the old real-deal scientists we read of in history. Thanks David for this session.
As a network engineer for nearly 15 years, I found this interview incredibly interesting and full of hard/sharp truths. One area where I have a different perspective however is regarding VOIP as just another application. As network engineers, you should care a lot about applications and how they behave. After all, customers really don't care what technology a network uses, weather its OSPF, MPLS, SD-WAN, all customers want is a good application experience.
Great feedback and viewpoint Kevin. I don't agree with everything Ivan says, but he definitely gives us a lot to think about and shares from a wealth of experience and knowledge.
@@davidbombal Thanks David. Again i'd like to say it was a great interview. If anything, I have been inspired to start tinkering around with hugo and create some content!
Sir I'm obsessed with this career but does it require mathematics skills like I'm weak when it comes to it. But my dream was technical careers always such as network engineer
"Learn the fundamentals" because "every network is going to go down at some point" and you need to know the basics to be able to troubleshoot it.
Today i'm in the position to do job interviews myself, one of my favorite questions was "Host A pings to Host B via Router C, all caches empty".
"Explain exactly on Layer2 & 3, what what packets are generated by what devices."
It is just astonishing how my people fail.
Recently i changed job and got asked basically the same question. I had a good laugh, and after explanation, the interviewer laughed along :)
So yeah, learn the basics!
Love this guy and his honesty. “Who cares about Cisco CLI” and “90% of CCNA is marketing crap”!
Both quite true comments. I’ve been a Network engineer for over 10 years and I’ve never held a Cisco certificate. I’m now a network architect, but I use a wide range of vendors.
The certificate gets you your first and maybe second job. After that, it’s about proven experience.
So many employers want their experts to have a wide array of vendors and skills, not just someone who can build a Cisco R&S network.
Don’t get me wrong, you MUST learn the fundamentals of networking, but they don’t need to be vendor specific for many organisations!
It's good to certify. it will only bring you to the table
in Germany is almost impossible to get through without CCNA.
@@TheyCallMeMannes that’s a real shame! There are so many strong engineers that haven’t followed the Cisco certification path. Don’t get me wrong, learning the material is beneficial, but if you don’t necessarily “need” the certificate, then I just wouldn’t go for the exam. I’ve just recently been offered a new network architect role for a company that owns one of the biggest chain of holiday parks in the UK. I went up against several other Cisco certified engineers and took part in a 4 stage process. I ended up being offered the role and getting myself a £20k increase in salary! My point is, it’s not always about qualifications, a lot of roles now want someone with a personality, who is approachable, isn’t awkward, can explain complex issues in a simple way to customers, but also has the technical knowledge to a satisfactory level, or can at least find the answer when necessary.
@@resedent2009 in Germany they don't really like people who don't have an official certification for something. let me give you another example. even on TV, when presenting someone that has skills about something, if that person is self taught, they make sure they mention it (the term is selbstgelernter) as in to make the difference between someone who studied for that something and someone who may have gained experience almost by try-and-error or from untrusted sources, without attending any classes to learn about that "something" from someone qualified. Moreover, even though I've been an IT engineer in the field of Linux and networking since 2007, who studied telecommunications at Uni and even has a master's degree, until I got the CCNA certification, I couldn't nail a true network engineer job. All the recruiters I was in contact with said the same, even though I have the qualification I don't have the certification. On the other hand, a regular Linux admin doesn't need such a proof of knowledge, a solid background and experience being more than enough.
You make some good points and I think it will be valuable for me. I think the number he said was 20 percent, though (At 9:20).
Last few minutes were superb of this interview. Thanks David & Ivan for motivating & inspiring thousands of Network Engineers like me who really don't know what to learn next and which one is best among available options
Saving the best for last :)
“Just DO something!”
Best quote of my day so far
Agreed
Can we get another interview session with Ivan? He is a great person to guide us in a better way.
If he share some idea about the learning path(short term or long term) that could be very helpful.
Also I would thank you for this amazing video.
"You can't find anything? Join an open-source project! Write documentation, write unit tests." - I whole-heartedly agree! As the creator of the Ostinato traffic generator for network engineers, here's something right in the alley - there's a lot of demand for Ostinato tutorials (as David can attest to, I guess) and I'm just not able to find the time for it!
And here everyone is a great example :)
I think network engineers will not dissappear but their work will adapt to the emerging technologies that are now changing the game. They will gain more knowledge in other areas such as coding and cybersecurity.
Still need to know the hardware asspect of the technology before AI take over.
Network engineers are always going to be in business. After all, Network is what connects all these clouds together. My entire career started by understanding the first 3 layers of OSI model (school + ISP job). this knowledge is a very solid foundation that allows you to move further in a lot of directions.
Ok, I'll check out the interview now ^_^
This is so true and accurate. I'm 23 and I had my CCNA certification last 2019, and yes certifications don't mean anything if you barely have any skills to show your employer. Work experiences are much more preferred when applying for a job, especially here in the country that I'm residing. So it's really best to hone your skills before you set out for a professional career.
Thanks for sharing!!
But can I get job in good company without any certification?
I am getting ready to start college studying Networking, so this was a great video. Thanks!
Interesting perspective, learn the fundamentals, I appreciate this information. Like a thousands of people I'm looking for a valuable knowledge that help me to keep growing into IT and network solutions, but everyone is pushing for devops and software engineering. Sometimes seems like employers don't appreciate network engineers, just programmers.
First off thank you David for these videos.
As someone without a father, these interview types of videos have given me direction, insight and providing answers to questions, I imagine I'd ask my father.
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, but I glad that the videos are helping you. Make the most of your time and life.
Hi San...I consider Dennis Prager one of my father figures. Try listening to his radio show sometime. I truly believe you’ll benefit as I have over the years
Thank you! This should be on everyone's first watch when stepping into the industry
Glad you think so Kurt!
Oh maaaann. To all: go and listen again to the last sentence, the last sentence was so good, hahaha. Thank you David.
Exactly :)
Fundamentals are the cornerstone!
I was looking to see if anyone else pointed it out as well. The way he puts networking into perspective separate of the applications isn't something you seem to hear often today. I am not into the field just yet and am studying for my CCNA, and from a lot of what I was reading it was sounding like the two roles were being merged into one. Was interesting to hear his take on the current landscape.
This interview is really good and I appreciate the advice given here. I do think it could be unrealistic for people to carve time to go volunteer to gather experience when people are trying to survive at this point.
David, you get the best guests , Ivan is an OG of networking
Thank you. Ivan is amazing :)
Very insightful. In my experience, I have always believed abstraction has a few downsides. The good part is abstraction expedites the building of software, networks, and other complex stuff by avoiding complexity, and focusing on the domain. But when things break, folks with clear fundamentals and good troubleshooting skills are the ones that save the day. If someone is building a good abstraction, then it is their responsibility to build tools for that ecosystem, that will help instrument that layer of abstraction.
I am getting into my CCNA I hope to get my certificate this year but honestly all this stuff about networking changes get me a little anxious becuse I think I am fallen behind but after seeing this video and how ivan ended this interview thanks fundamentals obviously will be important always. Thanks David for this video.
Did you complete your certification? If so, and you are looking for employment, let’s talk.
I've been a network engineer for a good number of years now and would like to share my experience with hardest part, "how do I get experience".
I worked for a company (not network engineer) and I was studying CCNA. I went upstairs and found the NOC manager and told them I was studying and wanted to be a network engineer. I asked if I could come up and meet the team and shoulder a few of the guys, learn what they did.
A vacancy came up eventually and I got the job. I don't think it was because I was good, I wasn't.. I sucked. But I put myself ahead of the "identical CVs" by showing my face and my interest.
I was so scared before doing it (I'm quite shy) but I'm so glad I did. My fear of rejection was my biggest barrier, not my capabilities or knowledge. Learning is the easy bit.
Best of luck for anyone attempting to get into networking, we need you.. Good engineers are hard to find :)
Thank you for sharing Jamie! That's fantastic!
@@davidbombal Thank you. Great video.. again :)
Strongly agree with "fundamentals" thing, basic routing and switching never gets old and it solves 90% of the stuff you may think off, don't focus on specifics, because you'll never master basics(which is 80% of the stuff in ccie R&S track) in that case. But I disagree with the point of "find another developer and let him write the code, because he does that better". In my experience, coding knowledge works in conjunction with your networking skills resulting in synergy in both fields. There are not that many good network engineers, and even less network engineers who can code, but when you become such person - it gives you much more, than learning another useless vendor track or technology, because the ability to code is also BASIC stuff you can use throughout you whole career.
Also, there's a logical error. If a guy works as a backend developer for 10 years, it doesn't mean he knows python well. And assuming that you can't measure this guys knowledge in advance means that you're just believe that every software engineer working the same amount of years has the same professional value as you in your field, which is simply not true. So, learn to code guys, but basics first! :)
Great video! Love the new content :) - Love at the end "if the network is down, who will troubleshoot it? the python guys ? the cloud guys ? ... or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals" .. gives me confidence to continue studying and progressing in networking!
Thanks Connor! So happy to hear that you love my content!
@@davidbombal That would be an understatement! Your like my mentor in networking and life! :) got my CCNA exam booked for next month, after completing your course on Udemy!
I'd like to thank you and your guest for taking the time to do this interview and publishing it. This is great information.
Ivan is talking to the point and blunt, love the way he is answering in the session.
My heart jumps when I had the notification. Good topic of discussion.
I changed it because people were complaining :(
I suggest the following approach: fundamentals + cloud + python. Of course if you have enough time and it’s fun for you.
Great suggestion :)
Is A+ worth it before all this?
@@Tx-do9fe if you are new to the industry with no experience, yes but just grasp the concepts. Don't bother to take the exam.
@@HongeraGideon But if you literally have no experience whatsoever, wouldn't it be better to be A+ certified?
Hello from Cameroon, thank you for the advice, I enrolled to your CCNA course on Udemy few weeks ago and I so much enjoy it.
Thank you for your support! I appreciate it :)
Do whatever you find interesting and fun! Do something what makes you happy, whatever it is.
never clicked so fast to hear from experts
Hope you enjoyed the video! :)
whenever I feel lost in my career I go back to this video. Thank you so much
Volunteering to friends and family is the way I got a lot of my experience. Working for your schools IT as a great way to keep focused on your studies too!!
best jobs are the ones that you don't applies to , the best jobs are the ones that are created for you because they wants you
omg that's super motivational , this is really epic interview
Thank you David for this amazing and eye opening video and a big thank you to one and only Ivan peppelnjak for such a honest, to the point and clear point of view for network engineer. At one point when Ivan said that "The best jobs are the ones that you don't apply to. The best jobs are job that are created for you because they want you." It hit me really hard and motivated me.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
I have been a subscriber to Ivan's lectures and training forever. The quality and content are, without fail, outstanding.
TBH this video is a damn jewel for every realm in one's life. Just do stuff, make something, get it done!, as simple as that.
Many thanks, short-term : cloud and programmability, long-term: principles , finally I can say I have a vision.
Very informative video, great content. I'm currently a networking Cadet in the local government sector and I'm glad to hear I'm not in a dying field.
In your many videos, I found some sentences which really made me think twice/ multiple times sometime. In this video, the sentence was " the definition of best job, which are made for you, because they want you" !! really wonderful!
Really happy to hear that!
If you are just starting out, I will suggest to do CCNA/JNCIA with an associate cloud certification from AWS or Microsoft. In this way, you are ready to jump in traditional network, cloud and hybrid cloud.
I smile when I heard the last minute. may be i really love network fundamentals. very nice to see you two discussion again.
Sometimes the best is last :)
Ivan is a thoughtful gentleman, and I love all his ideas. The way he delivers is smart and practical.
"And eventually every environment will get to a point where the network will be down. And who will troubleshoot that? The Python guys, the Cloud guys, or someone who took time and learned the fundamentals? " He doesn't say just a thought, it is a motivation.
I just started following Ivan Pepelnjak in LinkedIn
Great advice, thanks for taking the time to put this together David!
You're welcome Shawn :)
Such a Humble Guy Sir Ivan is . loved to watch this
Such a fantastic interview. Just the frankness with which Ivan articulated his opinions blew me away.
You should do an interview with Network Engineer Academy
Great suggestion :)
We can all learn how to position ourselves in the market to be a BADASS network engineer!
@@darylallen2485 hahahahaha Jorge is a good guy
🔰 Alot of people don’t understand Jorge; His advice is pure gold. You don’t need to buy Jorge’s coaching to discern his valuable and tangible advice. Many times it’s not the best technical person that get the job, but the person who can use their soft skills to articulate.
Waste of time.
This one of the best and practical approach to reality in companies those take care of business not employees. Thanks
Great interview. I love how humble you are when asking the questions. Excellent topics and questions. Thanks for sharing.
This video is exactly what I have been expecting for a long time. Thank you so much David !
You're welcome!
I appreciate you sharing your wisdom. I'm a 23 year-old with the CCNA and looking to make good plans. Thank you
.....Sweet. So cleared my Net+ and am working on CCNA and apparently now it doesn't mean much of anything. Awesome....
Thank you for this interview. It was very inspirational especially the part about branding yourself.
Really happy to hear that Altamese!
I totally agree when he said about learning the fundamentals for the long term. People may learn about SDN, SD-WAN, network automation, etc, but they are all about get things done faster and more efficient. And maybe in the next 5 years there will be something new, faster and more efficient to replace those.
The fundamentals? the IP routing, ethernet, arp, tcp, they are still the same and they will be for the long term. And the guy who learn and master the fundamentals is a network engineer, so network engineer will always be needed.
I liked Ivan's rant, this was a great interview. thanks for pulling this together
I don't agree ivan on many things in this video but respect his opinion, I'm a computer science student in the UK with a background in engineering but your content is always great david.
Feel free to share your thoughts Greg :)
How are you managing computer science with background in mechanical engineering?
I have to seriously recommend one thing. Ivan needs to make some content that is just purely his philosophical perspectives on life. Davids videos have really propelled me in interest and guidance in more than just networking, I come from a Mikrotik background but have been working towards Cisco stuff more and more.
Then this video came along and I felt like a student of a ancient monk, one that had all of the answers, and most of what you talk about, in relation to what David asks, also reaches many other areas of life and behaviors and discipline, well beyond just the networking parts. This video and the following one, was an actual profound moment where some serious life lessons and reflections were very much comprehended and relatable.
Great job to both and looking forward to more content. David does a great job on finding people that can share their stories and insights and make even us nobodies relate and become more engaged and interested. KEEP IT UP :)
Great video, Thank you very much David !!
Im looking forward to see more interviews with Ivan Peppelnjak
Spot on! That's how I launched my career. I was hired when I was 15 or 16 writing code for the Apple II. Still in high school. And that kicked off my 40-year career as a software engineer. Just Do It!
Hi David, we met @ Cisco Live in 2019. We discussed this very topic and what we do at Google. Ivan's mostly right although I have a different perspective on skills, taking on software skills. Taking next 3 years to learn coding/software will not be a waste and would be generally a more durable investment than learning any particular vendor technology. Programming should be part of the fundamental repertoire for a network engineer.
This guys is raw, love him, tell it like it is.... and I agree with him about Volunteering.
Thank you for this, David and Ivan. Ivan is full of wisdom, experience and knowledge. Amazing
1 - Do something> Anything if you are a beginner; Fix your network, fix someone else's network, take things apart, understand them. Show that on a interview and talk about it in your CV. Why are you different?
2 - Certifications are good but not everything> Just as a college curriculum, it is a structured way of learning. It ends up implying much more than just what you have learned. It means that you can dedicate your time to learn, structured thinking. But more than that, how can you aggregate value for a company or for someone you are/want to work for, besides a certification?
3 - Document what you do > Choose less ephemeral platforms where your work can be found. Prefer to set up your own website or blog. Just as before, it implies that you took the time, learned how to set up a website, probably learned some cloud on the way, tools, CI/CD, networking.. etc. And then link it on your LinkedIn, FB, whatever. You end up owning that.
4 - Learn the fundamentals > Fundamentals support you on the long run. Frameworks change, cloud changes, but the underlying fundamentals of networking or whatever you are dedicated to are more solid and just as a foundation to a building, supports everything else to come on that field.
That's what I took from the interview. Awesome content by the way!
THANKYOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR THIS INTERVIEW , REALLYY LIT MY HEART AND MY MIND .I LEFT CCNA HALWAY THRU , WAS IN DILEMMA REGARDING CARRER AND LOST .. THIS VIDEO BROUGHT A RAY OF HOPE IN ME ..AND SPECIALLY THE WAY IVAN SPOKE !!! I FELT LIKE MY DAD WAS TALKING .. SO MTIVATIONAL !! PLS UPLOAD MOREEE .. U JUST GOT A NEW SUBSCRIBER .THIS IS THE FIRST VIDEO I WATCHED OF YOUR CHANNEL THAT I STUMBLED ACROSS THIS DAY !!! GREAT VIDEO ... CLEARED MY DOUBTS ..AND MOTIVATED ME !!THANKYOU
Hi David, it is amazing the way you understand people who are wanting or already trying to get into this networking path. I really noticed all your interventions were about to guide your audience. Great interview.
Need more people like Ivan in this world. Unfortunately in my experience companies don’t show much respect to people with knowledge of fundamentals. Usually the common theme is do it fast and under budget so that managers look great and most importantly forget quality of work.
Just WOW!!
Excellent Podcast as usual. To the point, and so perceived to the IT field. Thanks David 🙂
I believe that an engineer shouldn't be the best at anything, but shouldn't be caught off guard by anything. Yes, you may have an area of expertise like networking, but you should know at least a medium level of programming, cybersecurity and the rest of the stuff, and this means to be a good engineer in this domain, it will take you a minimum of 10 years, not just one year one certification, boom i am an engineer, the true engineering is being in the middle of every aspects of it, and learn new things every day, and somehow figure out a solution, the engineer must the solving stuff guy, and for that you really need to know, everything about anything.
Probably the best video that i watched. keep up with this kind of interviews. This man taught me very useful things
Happy to hear that Stefan!
Same
Ivan says it as it is, no sugarcoating and this is good motivation 😄
Understand his point, however when there is a problem which needs fixing you are far better off if you have multiple skillsets. I am usually the one the team comes to when they need something fixed. Those that have only focused on one area have difficulty working out whos remit an issue falls under. While others debate trying to figure out where the issue is, someone with a broader understanding has already pinpointed the location of the problem, knows what skillset will be required to fix it, and if not within their skillset, has already delegated the problem to the appropriate person with an explanation of the issue.
People think about these things too linearly imo; people don't work like that. They can be adept at more than one thing, and have fundamental knowledge of some other areas to compliment. If you want to be able to fix something, having a fundamental understanding of other branches is invaluable.
It takes away the whole squabble of whether the issue is networks, systems, or development, which just wastes time.
No one bats an eye at a GP, so strive to be a GP of I.T.
Wow, I passed the MPLS exam for my CCIP certification with Ivan's book almost two decades ago! First time to actually hear him speak though. 😂
Only one person on CZcams who replied on mostly comments. thanks you so much David for the very informative interview .
I generally picture Network Engineering as being a "plumber." I am currently a Jr. Network admin after years of working at an MSP, and my higher ups are definitley training me in a trade. To understand how internet communication works on the fundamental level will always be a needed skill.
Great Intreview Sir David I Alredy enroll in CCNP so Pray for Network enginers.
That was a brilliant video. I really appreciated how respectful you were with him.
"Certifications are relevant because they are structured". period
Big respect to you guys and thank you so much for showing the way!
Thank you! And you're welcome Arouna!
What a great insight about Network Engineers and getting a job, thanks.
Thank you so much David for interviewing someone from Eastern Europe! For someone like me it's very eye opening and promising.
Absolutely, Your guest is talking from an engineering perspective which is trying to build people with Design and innovation knowledge more than creating operators and technology smart users. CCNA certificate has survived all that years because of its network principles and IEEE standards contents.
Its all about value, show the work ethic, projects you have done at home or in the world. Showing the follow through and that your not scared to take on the next new thing.
This is certainly the most interesting video I've seen about Networking's future. Thank you for your coverage, and in fact, I think I'm exactly the audience for this video. You've answered mostly all points I question myself. Thanks to Ivan, which I really like for his point of view, I found myself some good answer about what I'll do next. I will just mention this : "Eventually, every environement will get to a point where the network will be down, and who will troubleshoot that, the python guys, the cloud guys, or someone who took time to learn the fundamentals ?" That is THE good question.
The points Ivan makes are very familiar. I went through the cert route, without really spending sufficient time on the basics, only to have to circle back after I got my entry level job. Troubleshooting will expose your weaknesses very quickly. I'd also add that work ethic is a massive plus. You can teach skills, but not a personality or drive. I've worked with some terrible CCIE's who were just lazy and arrogant, but some wonderful ones too and wonderful Network + engineers. great info David, many thanks for the new folks.
A wonderful and useful dialogue that influenced my way of thinking and seeing
Love the part about working as a volunteer. Make yourself useful somewhere, solve a problem…. Then document.
5 Minutes into the interview, I can tell Ivan is a no non-sense guy 😂. I can listen to this man non-stop.
This is a great video David. It's hard to overstate just how valuable Ivan's commentary or how relevant to aspiring 'Engineers' of all levels of experience this is. Thank you :)
You're welcome!
I LOVE the general principles in this interview, and have shared it as a result.
It was a good interview. Especially the very last part impressed me. Being faithful to the basics is what I emphasize after working in this industry for over 20 years.
In the current network environment where everything cannot be changed at once, only overlay technology is being emphasized, but the reality is that fewer and fewer people understand the basic technology of underlay.
Painful but honest words. Thank you Ivan
That was a very good interview with Ivan, thanks for putting up the video 👍..what an intrested guy Ivan is, full of wisdom.
Good interview! Ivan is right getting your experience doesn’t have to be in a professional job you get your experience by doing free work when you are starting out. If you don’t have the drive it will be hard to get the experience.
When he said we thought we were special and demigods and we are not that hit a nerve. I have worked with dozens upon dozens of networking engineers over the span of 20+ years and this was something that I always knew existed in various circles but never took the time to put it to words.
Thank you Sir David! for sharing this.