An Israeli LMG, Part I: The .303 Dror
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
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When you spoke about the 81mm mortar production line I wanted to add the fact that this line was set up in a Kibbutz and the mortar bomb tails were made of the aluminium of a british plane that crashed nearby
Waste not, want not.
Was the aluminum strong enough to sustain the heat and pressure from the burning propellant?
@@wisewarnanazara317 Once
Kibbutz were essentially socialist collectives that valued the wellbeing of the members of the kibbutz instead of profits.
Wow
"Egypt didn't get the Johnson"
Oh, they did.
They did .. Several times
A gentleman told me a story back in 70's about working in a Czech Weapons Factory at the end of war. He was laid off a few weeks after the war ended and about a year later, his old boss called him and asked if he wanted to make some money (silly question as he was barely scrapping by.) and he said Yes. He came in and for several months they were repairing and retrofitting German, Czech, Polish, Austrian machineguns (you name it, he worked on it). He wasn't bullshitting as he could talk about it in detail. I learned more about machineguns from him, then from the Air Force Small Arms School. You should have seen the look on my crew's face when I field stripped and reassembled a MG-3 (brought by the Germans for field testing) without even looking at the instructions. My acquaintance thought the guns they were repairing were for the new Czech Republic Army (and that's what they were told). About six months later, several unmarked C-47's and C-54's (even a couple of JU-52's) landed at the airport near his factory. He helped load the trucks and even drove one of trucks to the airport and they put all the machineguns on the planes. To this day he has no idea where they went. This kind of stuff went on for several years until the Soviet's finally put a stop to it (He said, they knew about it and didn't say anything). He said it was the best paydays he ever had. Plus, he got cases of American cigarettes and Rations to supplant his pay for a couple of years after the war. It was great trading material as he didn't smoke, and he definitely wasn't a fan of SPAM. The machineguns could have gone to Israel, the Arabs, or some independence movement somewhere. The Czech didn't care about your "cause", had severe money issues due to war (the Germans didn't pay for shit), and everyone wanted to work.
I wonder if some of those rifles ended up in Syria. Perhaps one day they'll migrate back to museums in Czechia. The Israeli Air Force started off with Czech-made Bf-109s, so maybe even the cargo planes ended up being sold off.
I remember hearing anecdotes about some of the schemes used to manufacture arms in the pre-independence days. One was that they made a factory under a laundromat so that the sound of the machines would be masked by the washers above. Another was that someone set up a a lipstick factory to have a ready supply of brass tubes, which would then be diverted to cartridge production.
You are thinking of the Ayalon Institute! It was built in three weeks to resemble a kibbutz and even had people who had no idea about the ammo factory living there! The washing machine as well as all the equipment is still there and it is a museum. The washing machine was the main entrance for what would become the Israeli scouts, and underneath the giant brick oven in the bakery is how they got all the equipment in.
Is that where the idea for the underground meth lab in _Breaking Bad_ comes from, I wonder?
I was at those factory very fascinating place.The Israeli hid the factory under dryers and invited British officer over for beer .The British never knew what they were hiding
When the UN/leftists eventually institute a firearms ban here (and don't think it's not coming, not tomorrow but within our lifetimes) I hope we display the same dedication and ingenuity to our freedom.
It worked, so there's that.
The bit about the "frugalness" gave me a good laugh...
They were desperate then…
The second you said "Johnson" I knew I recognized some of the patterning. That metal heat shield is a dead giveaway for their manufacturing lines
The whole thing screams Johnson
I agree with both of you about its looks. (Front sight and stock is from the Johnson machinegun.)
(The bolt and its handle and the mag at the bottom is also a giveaway.)
And that buck Rodgers style front sight
"Ya doesn't has to say Johnson!"
For me it was the long, thin, and curved magwell. Also the wonky front sight post
I converted dozens of .303" Mk1 and 8mm Mk2's into semiauto only rifles here in the UK in the late 70's & early 80's when we could have such things... Sidem International in Bridgewater, Somerset UK bought them from Israel for next to nothing together with a large batch of Israeli FAL's. The Mk1's were in much better condition than the Mk2's showing that the .303" guns were used less than the 8mm guns!
They were not particularly scarce back then!
UK is such a shit place to live. SRC: Also from UK
Thank you for info
So you're the reason they're scarce today :D
@@markmcelroy1872 I hold my hands up! I may indeed have some responsibility for preserving them🤣
Absolutely, hope-killingly sad that countries I used to wish I could live in have become such bastions of authoritarianism and big government. Soz about the nanny state, loves, pip pip cheerio govna : p
דרור
Means both, the bird and freedom.
There is saying "Im free as a Dror"
Free as a sparrow. Convays the freedom of bird to fly
So "ani dror k'dror"?
Makes sense. Here in the US we say "Free as a bird".
When Ian says there was underground sten production, I don't think people realize that much of it was literally under ground.
It looks as if the fiberboard tube over the barrel is the same outer diameter as the pieces over the stock tubes. That's a neat bit of production efficiency.
that's a nice catch
Wow! I never knew that Stoner's AR-10 had such a clear progenitor in the Johnson designs! Fascinating.
Fun fact: The Isralies had an ammunitiomn factory, under the British Army Laundry in Jerusalem. It produced 9mm, so , how does one get a 9mm Brass past and suspicious Britsh goverment? You set up a lipstick factory! And import brass 'Lipstick cases' , that just happenm to be 9 mm wide.
That’s really cool and smart but did they never inspect the shells closely?
It wasnt in Jerusalem it was in Rehovot which is south of Tel Aviv. It was built on a kibbutz and disguised as a laundry facility and bakery. Im not sure if british soldiers brought their laundry there but its possible becuase it was within walking distance of a british military base. It was such a well kept secret its existence wasnt known publicly until the 1970's, but after 1948 it was moved above ground. It still exists today as a museam where you can go and see what it looked like, its called the ayalon institute. Man, Israeli history is so fascinating, its crazy how a country only 74 years old can have all these crazy stories.
@@iwanttocry3212 before brass gets pressed into a shell casing it looks nothing like anything that would resemble a bullet, unless somebody knew how they were made it wouldnt look very suspicious.
@@abrahamm1325 oh I thought they were importing the shells just with no primer or anything
@@iwanttocry3212 Im not exactly sure what was imported or if they were manufacturing the cases from scratch but a casing starts off as a little circle cut out of a brass sheet, there are several incredibly expensive machines required to press and draw them into their final shape, but they really dont resemble a bullet until the last few presses.
Another early LMG that looks like a Star wars Blaster build in a Hobby Shop... I love it.
It's the other way around!
The MMO Star Wars The Old Republic actually put in a blaster rifle that is almost a direct lift of the Johnson LMG/Dror, so clearly we weren't the only ones who thought of that!
It also looks a bit like the Sterling .308 prototype that appears on the website - it was a kind of "kriegsmodel" rifle for the Third World War that seemed to be built from a mixture of FN FAL and Sterling SMG parts.
Not to be pedantic, but it's actually a very late LMG
Yes
I spent all day looking for my .303 ammo. I checked the closet, the cabinets, almost everywhere.
I forgot I put all of it in the dror.
Get out 😄
Take your like and git.
Take your upvote 😆
Annoying
I absolutely love the way that you share the history and human stories behind forgotten weapons. Thank you, Ian!
Yeah true but the demon story behind this one is sorta interesting as well.
The safety was interesting to me, it said או short for אוטומטי (automatic) נצ short for נצור (safety for guns literally capture) and בו shirt for בודד or lone (semi)
Kick open the Dror
Get on the Floor
Everybody walk the .303 some more.
Boom Boom
Shaka Laka Laka Boom
Boom Boom
Shaka Laka Boom Boom
“Boom! Shellac-Lakh! Boom!”
I think when the designers were told to adapt this to 8mm Mauser, they probably face palmed as they spent all that time redesigning it from 30-06 (which is very similar to 8mm Mauser)
That's one of those stories that's so insane to hear there's NO way it couldn't be true.. great one Ian thanks so much for sharing it!! You seriously are the Gun Jesus!!
The hidden tyranny.... It all makes sense.
Can't you just hear publishers' laughter upon reading a manuscript?
The Israelis pulled a LOT of shenanigans over the years to get weapons. Look up the Cherbourg operation where they snatched some patrol boats that France had refused to release to them due to Arab pressure.
Apparently a plethora of different crimes must be committed in order to steal somebody else's country.... Who'd have thought?
@@andrewweitzman4006 Indeed! 😎
the early history of the Israeli armed forces is utterly fascinating: I mean, their first proper fighter plane was the Czech copy of the BF-109G Messerschmitt. and they flew guarding the Three Israeli B-17s from attack by Egyptian Spitfires.
I can now add this weapon to the story of the bizarre world of 948 Israel.
Not quite a Czech "copy" - the factories were the same ones that had produced the German ones. Just slapped-together planes with the wrong engines (which therefore had an unfortunate tendency to roll on takeoff and landing) and wrong propellers (hence a tendency to shoot their own propellers off).
They switched to Spitfires as soon as they could get their hands on them 😅
Plus K98s with the swastikas filed off, also from Czech factories/stockpiles! So much old German equipment lying around and Czechoslovakia was eager to sell it all off.
@@vonschlesien Switching made things even more weird, since they had Spitfires fighting other Spitfires.
The Israelis using Messerschmitt BF-109Gs is probably the most famous Plane Israel used from German Stock. I'm pretty sure they also ended up with some Fieseler Storch Planes and i think i vaguely remember also some German Tanks and/or other Military Vehicles that were used in early Israeli Military.
Did Egypt, Lebanon and/or Syria end up using some of the same German Plane or Tank Models Israel was using while they were fighting eachother? It wouldn't surprise me at all, and that would be even more weird.
Prost & Cheers from the Berchtesgadener Land in the Bavarian Alps (Yes that Berchtesgaden)
ah the weapons that started an ethnic cleansing
@@chartreux1532 IIRC the tanks were mostly British and American surplus; easier to find, easier to maintain. Israel captured some Panzer 4s from Syria in '67, but I don't think ever put them into service.
Dror, the magical combination of drawer and door, now you can have both!
The Sparrow is named דרור DROR because it is the only way it could survive...FREE
My grandfather ran an auto parts factory in Windsor which was repurposed to produce firearms parts for the war. He siphoned off many of the parts and shipped them to Israel as “auto parts” to use in their war of independence in 1947-48.
Melvin Johnson is evident every time we turn around. Took me 20 years to afford a 41' Johnson rifle. The moment I saw the caption depicting the video, I knew. Oh boy another one influenced by Johnson. I love the fact his designs are still used today in the AR.
I would LOVE to watch a movie about this gun's story! It's practically begging to be adapted into a historical drama!
Back then you could buy the complete technical data package for the Johnson light machine gun for $17k. In a matter of years, you’ll also be able to buy a single 9mm round with that kind of money.
My retirement plan
@@jamesmandahl444 "weapons of war" I never get that statement, a Jeep was a "weapon of war"
@@samholdsworth420 Technically thank ol Ronnie Reagan, his admin passed the 1986 firearms protection act that banned any new machine guns and required strict registration and controls for any on the market that we all have to deal with today. Worth noting that since then neither Democrat or Republican administrations have made any attempt to undo it. If you are a single issue voter on guns neither party is your friend.
@@primarchvulkan5097 Look st what Biden is doing to the ATF tho, Brendon Herrera last 3 videos is talking about that.
@@primarchvulkan5097 well presidents don't pass law. Congress does. Democrats passed gun laws under Reagan. Is what u mean to say. And out of 1000s of gun laws 99.9% were drafted and passed by democrats. 99% of gun laws were stopped by republicans. So yes republicans have problems but don't compare a pebble to a boulder.
It looked like there was spring pressure on the barrel release pin that could have been taken off by locking the bolt to the rear first
Interesting that it says "מ.י" in the bottom of the crest engraving. Nowadays, it's an abbreviation for "Israeli Police". I wonder if that's where this particular gun ended up.
By the way, your pronunciation of the names was perfect!
Giving a machine gun to the police sounds like a bad idea
@@azypk the border police is under the Israeli Police. Who knows.
@@azypk Because it is, but hey, if you wanna get away with crimes against humanity, the best place to do it is in israel
@@azypk the Border Guard (the name is historical) is a gendarmerie unit bureaucratically in the police chain of command, but equipped as light infantry. Think the Carabinieri.
They're used for things like counter-terrorism raids in Israeli-controlled territory (ie not Area A), raids on organized crime where weapons are expected, security at sensitive sites, and with different equipment for riot control. They would absolutely have light machine guns.
@@vonschlesien You're telling me that its normal to point at civils a .303 automatic rifle
There’s a great book, “The Pledge” by Leonard Slater, about David Ben-Gurion coming to the US at about the same time to seek the backing of rich Jewish Americans to help with arms as well
It’s even more conspiracy-y than Ian’s story here
Who's it by?
@@tuckerchestney501 Leonard Slater
There is a copy sitting on my desk right now in front of me.
My grandfather was heavily involved in the weapons buying and shipping during that time, but as my father told me, asked to be kept out of the book as his wife never knew and would never have approved of the laws he broke and risks he took.
He bought a lot of the machines that were used in the clandestine bullet factory and likely for this gun. He was a mechanical engineer. His warehouse was also used to pack and ship a lot of the equipment marked also as "agricultural equipment".
@@avnerbezify not too far off with the description: A lot of these tools can produce excellent fertilizer.
@@dashingdave2665 bruh
11:54 "Dror" is indeed can be translated both as sparrow and as freedom. Swallow is a much less common translation
Exactly. Not a Swallow at all. the reason behind is that lieberty is also freedom in Hebrew, and these bird's ability to fly is a representation of freedom.
Dror is hebrew right,? not yiddish, hard to tell for me in that case. I'm german and most yiddish words and names are just a certain german dialect with another part being hebrew. Birds being usually the same in yiddish as i any other german dialect.
It's interesting because some hebrew-origin words that are used in yiddish made it into everyday german language or became a mix of german and hebrew like:
- Schlamassel (being meant as/used as the opposite of "Massel/Mazel")
That word is widely used daily all over Germany and on the other hand you got german words that made it all the way to daily yiddish use in the USA like:
- Schmutz (from middle german "Smuts" - meaning "Dirt")
Prost & Cheers from the Bavarian Alps
@@chartreux1532 Dror as freedom / independence is written in the Bible's 3rd book. It is an ancient Hebrew word.
@@eladorr4585 Im no expert on the subject but i do know alot of biblical hebrew words are not used in modern day hebrew which would make it understandably hard to translate.
@@abrahamm1325 Not as many as you would imagine. Spoken Hebrew may not use many but Writers use such words more often and if you read you'll come by most biblical words. Dror is one of these, but luckily it is used exactly the same way as at ancient times.
That's a real honker of a front sight.
Every part of this project sounds like a black market smuggling ring or something along those lines. "We'll just do this hush hush and nobody will have a problem".
Dror kinda makes sense when you think how dove is a symbol of peace and perhaps liberty in many places. Might as well mean both at the same time.
THEY sucks.
It doesn't *sound like* - it *was* a black market smuggling ring, trying to get weapons past British authorities before they left
Israel is NOT a symbol of peace lmao
@@user-lb1op2gn9d I agree.
@@user-lb1op2gn9d the bird (dror) is a symbol of peace, not the country
I haven't heard the word "Johnson" so many times since I last watched The Big Lebowski
Ian is too polite to say "Excuse me while I drop my Drors and whip out my Johnson."
I do enjoy the segments that have at least as much story (including interesting anecdotes about the parts) as raw technical disassembly detail. The teardown is nice, but the story is what makes the gun interesting.
Welcome to my country Ian, hope you have/had a nice stay :). Nice to see they gave you acces to our gun stores. Hope to see some more content from this visit
So basically this was all highly illegal but literally everyone looked the other way because they were "sympathetic" 🤔
It's almost like the law isn't applied equally to us westerners 🤔
Morally supporting the Jews while not wanting to upset the Arabs.
I was like "wait, didn't you do this gun already?" :D Also: It's cute that, while you read "dror", you followed with your finger from left to right :)
"Excited about the potential of this gun" is a delicate way of putting "desperate for anything that will shoot and unable to wait", before the Czechoslovakian deal came through.
A brilliant subject Ian. Never seen or heard of this one so truly forgotten 👍🏻
I love videos like this that have such a rich history and backstory. When you get to see the actual weapon, it brings everything full circle and becomes tangible in something you (or Ian, rather) can touch, manipulate and interact with. All of Ian’s videos are great but these are particularly special.
I live in Belgium, I've been to the museum a few times(including with my dad, who died years ago). Its unfortunate that they emptied their ww2 exhibits, many of them are an empty box with a picture now. Also have yet to reopen their medival exhibit, which got closed for rework years ago. They have way too much stuff stocked away, never displayed.
Just goes to show, that a museum isn't safe for artifacts
I really enjoy these longer videos with an in-depth story
I LOVE your channel so much Mr. Ian.
Thanx brother
One of the most intersting video on channel, thank you
Another's "top Dror" video Ian..cheers 🍻
Fantastic Video. Thank You.
Thank you , Ian .
I love Story Time With Ian.
Love the history lessons. Keep up the great work
Welcome in my country! Really enjoying your show! 👍
You are such a good historian/story teller!!
I've pretty much said the same thing before. I save a lot of your videos are workout videos but decided to watch this one. Even though i'm not mechanically minded the technical aspects are still so engaging. You do a great job making these videos accessible to anyone. I also love videos one guns that have a lttle bit of a story like this. Some of my favourites have been the PTRD, Green meanie and the pancor jackHammer.
Thank you for sharing your research
Thanks Ian for sorting out a confusing time in history by using this gun to help explain that.
That gun is the embodiment of why this channel exists and is awesome.
Looks nice.
Ah, another fine addition to my collection of potential Star Wars guns. I use mostly your videos (plus a few other channels) whenever I need a blaster for my games.
Ian this would make a great movie. Great video.
I wonder, is this one of the last 303 rifles made? I can't think of any other 'new' military weapons in .303
No4 mk2 rifles 1949-1955
@@3of11 I think those were just converted rifles. And we're not a new design.
@@djl5634 True, but that's still "new production" and after the .303 Dror stopped production. Of course there are all manner of civilian rifles being made even today chambered in .303 (For instance, the Ruger No. 1 can be had in .303. I'd kinda like to have a Ruger No. 1 in 7x57 actually, but can't justify the price when I have plenty of other rifles that will do the same thing. I just kind of have a weakness for the falling block.)
@@tarmaque he said new wepon. Not new production older design wepons. But u get my point.
@@djl5634 Certainly. It is an obsolete cartridge, but so is 7.62x54mmR and it's still fairly common. Hell, you can still buy new rifles in 30-30.
LOL.. great video and awesome story. I can only imagine any jews watching wincing every time Ian says "setting up a new Jewish homeland" rather then reclaiming their historical homeland. but I digress.
"Dror" is literally "freedom", a sparrow in hebrew is "freedom bird" by full name, just "freedom" in short.
Absoulutely fascinating piece of history. I never knew anything of it.
Thanks Ian. God bless all here.
Funny the selector is exactly the same as early AR-10 's and 15's. As Eugene Stoner lisenced Melvin Johnson's multi lug bolt every time I see a Johnson LMG I want to draw the lines of evolution from Johnson's BAR mag LMG to AR-10
If I remember correctly, there was a Johnson prototype that was mixed between gas and recoil operated. Shame his legacy for most people is the guy who came 2nd to the Garland and BAR, and not the grandfather of the ARs.
@@LoganJP0120 I'd love to see a schematic of both or the 44 Johnson LMG & AR-10 dissimbled side by side.
Melvin Johnson's influence is there, if not Grandfather to AR-10 the Johnson LMG is either a great uncle or Godfather.
@@christinepearson5788 Yep. The recoil system is very similar (the buffer is integral to the carrier instead of a separate part) as is the lower (I imagine that's how an AR lower would look if it was reworked to take a side loading mag or a belt). The AR-10/15/18/180 are the children of the Johnson rifles- they are what you get when you adapt the design for a novel short stroke gas system (in the 15 and 10) and modern box mags.
This would make a great movie.
I've never noticed how similar the the bolts are to an M16/AR15 bolt. Even with the channel for the hammer and the locking lugs. Neat
The Johnson inspired Stoner.
I believe they were both employed by Armalite at one point in time
McCollum knows how to spin a yarn 👏
Slavin bought complete weapons assembly lines, and then jewish leadership refused to pay customs because of factions infighting.
So they were left in crates in the port of Haifa
What a great story! Really great vid!
Well done. So interesting!
Daaam, I have been looking for this gun for ages!!!
Hope you had fun in my country.nice to see some people appreciate the Belgian war museum enough to come visit
Great vid. Super interesting.
I find it very hard to believe that the FBI would get up to anything so legally questionable /s
Highly advanced weapon for 1940...Melvin patented the 8 lug bolt in 1937 . Yes....he worked with Stoner on the AR-10
Stoner used Johnsons bolt.
What an interesting story of a strange beast of a gun!
Ian and Hickok 45 sitting around a camp fire swapping firearm stories would just be an awesome evening to kick back and listen too
🍺😮.
Hint: the AR10 takes a whole lot more from this gun than just the bolt. You can see it: uncanny valley similarities all over the machine. AR10 is quite possibly a reimagined Dror with a gas system and a bunch of improvements.
Drill Sgt: "You recruits go clean your Drors!"
What an interesting story, this is why forgotten weapons is the best
Where do I store all my ammo?
In the Dror
Great video as usual. Much of the information Ian is referencing can be found in The Pledge by Leonard Slater. I would recommend it if you want a more elaborated and fascinating story of the Dror, Chaim Slavin, the discovery of the 303 assembly line (very interesting story) and much more.
11:42 "Dror" is a duel meaning word in Hebrew - it means both the bird "sparrow/swallow" and "freedom/liberty", depending on the context of its usage in a sentence.
The source for both meanings is biblical.
So basically a pun-ish name in the sense that "fast and agile" is associated with sparrow/swallow, but printed on a tool that's supposed to secure freedom/liberty?
Always good stories, but this is a Great Story!!!
I knew the second I saw the video thumbnail that this was going to be a Johnson clone/variant (either authorized or otherwise). The vented shroud and "sharkfin" front sight are very distinctive and instantly recognizable. I'm just not sure about disassembly: Having only a huge crossbolt sticking out the receiver side seems like a disaster waiting to happen in combat. I mean there's not even a fence around it, or heavy spring resistance or a catch or anything at all to stop you giving the thing a good bump by accident and having your gun fall apart.
Conspiracy is the correct description…
This story had me smiling from ear to ear.
Talk about forgotten weapons it takes two videos to remember it.
Hey! If still in Brussels and want some snow around don't hesitate to contact!.. foreigner with a lifelong passion and love for rifles living in Bxl 5 years plus now. Anytime you'd need anything Ian, especially a triple beer 🍺 Mark
Hi Ian, i looked the name דרור up in the Gesenius dictionary for biblical hebrew, and it has actually three meanings: 1. sparrow, wild dove (Ps 84:4; Pr. 26:2). to flow (as in molten myrrh is flowing) (Ex 30:23) 3. release (n).(Lev 25:10; Jes 61:1)
I find it really really cool that they used a name that has a wide semantic range. A small bird that is finding his home; the flow of ammo through the gun; or the perspective that the gun might release those who use it to fight.
it's also the "feeling" u have when I are released to freedom from a prison
like...very jolly If you can imagine
and that gives another meaning to a different expression "being free as a bird" (the dror bird)
this expression is from modern Hebrew but it has its roots and connection to the biblical Hebrew
awesome research bro
I have a book written by one of the men who participated in getting equipment for Israel directly after WWII, and this story is prominent in it. When I get home tomorrow, I'll try to dig it out and send you a pic of it on twitter. The title on the cover is spelled out in .30 carbine cartridges- very interesting story.
some one stuffed up, at the 11.00 mark you can see a shroud hole that is drilled out of place at the start on top....
Hmmm, no bottle-opener on the bipod... I'll pass.
An interesting story for what appears to be a fantastic LMG.
Dror was translated to whichever one was most useful at the moment.
There must be more to the story with regards to the Canadian involvement. I can’t imagine that the British would’ve been particularly enamoured with the idea of anyone setting up a light machine gun factory in Palestine, at a time when Palestine was administered by Britain under a UN mandate.
I also wonder if the British administration of Palestine was another reason why .303 British was originally selected as the ammunition?
I'd think so, it was occupied by the British after they invaded in 1918 so the overwhelming supply will have been of UK calibres and most ammunition & weapons captured from the British once they became the enemy after 1945 will have been, of course, .303 as well.
The history of this gun is as exciting as it is interesting in its function.
It's the origin of the tactical UGG boot, before UGGs existed!
Great museum! Have not been in years, but will visit again in the summer. Hope you had a chance to visit Bastogne too.
Nice history lesson!
That's a cool looking gun. And the story behind it is like a Hollywood movie script.