I saw a demonstration of a guy sampling his own piano and then playing a major 2nd on the real thing and then on the samples. In the real things the vibrations of the two notes interact with each other through the wood and the air, but the samples can't. That blew my mind and it made sense why virtual instruments are so sterile.
@drrodopszin I get what you're saying but surely you can see how people said the same thing about amp sims. It's only a matter of time. But I conceded I'm talking about the future and people are talking about now. But still, there are some awesome sims out there for the cost.
@@Fl4ppersNot happening until quantum processors at least. Also, until proper sound propagation simulation can be done. Sample replication with the help of Neural networks is much more likely.
Absolutely! I tried my absolute best over the span of a few weeks to make my programmed drums (Superior Drummer & Modern and Massive) sounding real. Then i bounced the Drum Track and showed it to my drummer. He immediately pointed out many many things that are weird in his ears. I didn't tell him that they are programmed. Then we changed it until he was satisfied. Putting them back into the Session of the whole mix and it was amazing, nobody could tell anymore. If i went straight to mixing the whole session with the mindset "nobody will hear it in context" i would have been proven wrong most likely!
idk this is a bit outdated. If you are making a straight piano song, sure you can tell.... but if you are adding piano or strings to a song? Literally not a single person would tell
Sure nobody can tell. How would they? They have no reference. But its defitnelly less versataile for the creator and thus take significantly more time to get the desired sound.
I feel like an important note to make here is that there is a difference between telling and feeling. It just so happens that in a blind test most people can't "tell" the difference between a lot of fake stuff: compressors,vsts,ampsims etc etc. But at the same time, most people's favourite rock, indie and generally "acoustic" music was done with real drums, real pianos, real amps in nice studios, and often to tape. Is it a fear among musicians that if they don't do it the right way they might sell their songs short, so they more often than not pay for the expensive rooms, good gear and do things analog and real, or do people just keep gravitating to properly recorded stuff. People say that kempers, tonex and superior drummer are indistinguishable from the real thing. I'm still waiting to hear that great up and coming band do a top tier rock song that was recorded this way. i've heard some pop-rock, some metal... .... but think Arcade Fire, Radiohead, The killers, Rolling stones, Beatles, Talking heads, joy division, the cure, the smiths, R.E.M, weezer, nirvana, the strokes, siosuixe and the banshees, the clash, the ramones, the the arctic monkeys, david bowie, pixies, big theif, dinosaur jr, pavement, snail mail, phoebe bridgers etc etc That really *emotive* kind of indie rock alternative music that is always done analog, real instruments, in the right room. i don't hear new bands making that kind of music with that kind of gear, and i have to wonder why considering so many of these bands came from the sort of backgrounds that would make this cheaper DIY style more appealing. It's almost always metalheads with this software and you have to really wonder why.
Few people might be able to say "oh hey that added piano is sampled and lacks dynamic range", but I would bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in yours that more people would say a version with a piano that's really played, not sampled, sounds better. Even if they couldn't explain why they think that.
Imperfections can be programmed. A simple one would be to vary the timing of each note by a small amount. You don't notice when it's not perfect, but it sounds mechanical when it is.
this typically, depending on the virtual instrument, still sounds horrible compared to organic instruments, because unless you want to spend half an hour to an hour on two measures youre not going ever going to get pitch, tuning, tempo, or volume similar to how you would in person
@@kiyoraka3537 It's only a matter of time before a phone app can "humanize" virtual instruments perfectly. Adapt or die. Edit: I am not asking you to die. It was just a turn of phrase like "buckle my shoe" or something.
@@jayme3181 There's a certain threshold where people are not going to be interested. I personally don't wanna hear someone "fake" real drums with AI, i think it's inauthentic as a process. Make your drum machines sound like drum machines and save "real" drums for real drummers. and it has nothing to do with how it sounds, its the intention behind the work.
@@jayme3181 hardly, for these reasons: 1) theres not a market for this producers today simply make do with what they have and in the end, it sounds like a good product; worst case, they go hunting for samples on the internet 2) it would put numerous people out of a job many musicians get paid to record music for others, and corporate makes money off of those sales too; its not really a dead industry whatsoever and if there really existed a perfect software to replicate any instrument to a T, it would never even hit the market and the execs would ensure that 3) its downright impossible to create audio through software, you have to either: A) configure a waveform that sounds mildly like a given instrument- and you will never, and i mean NEVER, match it perfectly to an instrument because waveforms on a DAW and sound in real life dont necessarily correlate simply because of the science behind acoustics and soundwaves bouncing off certain materials inside the instrument itself or B) have a professional record some audio clips for every note on the possible range of the instrument, which is the more usually taken route today, and this still will never compare to a real musician playing a song because of the clarity, tone, tuning, and timing that all varies so delicately in real world applications based on the atmospheric conditions, size and material of the room, variations of the instrument, background noise (however miniscule it may be), and more. to create a software that could mimic this is like preventing cancer from never happening again, its simply not going to happen
I think it's 50/50. But that said that's why you get the cheap packs, they're amature and are full of imperfections. For example I randomly bought a Viola Da Gamba pack and it's been the best purchase I've made for an instrument I can't play.
Oh I forgot to mention, can you afford to host all these instruments? For a small fee I can have access to some pretty incredible sounding instruments I other would have a chance to have!
Well you have to put just as much time into it as a performer who practiced. You have to go in and perform the velocity of every single note. Studio One has a midi humanize feature which helps a lot 🙂👍
That’s why I don’t practice much before tracking. And I fine tune velocities and add drift to every instrument either in the VST if it has it or using a tape emulator.
Most virtual instruments have articulation controls. While it does take a significant amount of time to get them to sound like a real human played it, it's still completely doable. Anymore, if a virtual instrument sounds bad or "fake", it's the user's fault.
I'm usually into hard rock, metal, punk...stuff like that. I drove my ol' lady's car to the shop yesterday, after her daughter drove it & the radio was on a hard rock/metal station... almost every song sounded like the same band. Especially the guitars, but really everything. It was so bad. But it reminded me of why I never got into all that stuff & I basically still just put a mic or two in front of an amp & dial in my sound like that. No added effects or anything, unless it's part of whatever I'm actually playing. There are bands & artists who still keep it pretty simple like that, but definitely not enough of them. Literally everything I heard on the radio yesterday may as well just been the same album by the same band. It's ridiculous & sad....
What I like to do is mix virtual and real instruments, along with going into the midi editor and dragging notes slightly off beat, varying the velocity, etc. You can also use processing to add organic flavor to virtual sounds, like distortion and chorus/flange. Dialed in reverb and delay help to give the impression that the sound is in a space. Just my two cents as a producer, I think he’s right though. But virtual instruments definitely have their perks when you don’t have the money to buy authentic synth boards.
Humanize... Lots of these companies are adding a true feel to midi instruments... Off time beats longer notes shorter whatever you tell it to do... You can in fact control every note like a real person if you spend the time to do it... I'm older now I had my 15 years of band stuff... We played out everywhere in and around Cincinnati. The scene was dull for our type of music, but we played our hearts out! I play lead guitar Bass Vocals Drums Piano.... HAHAHA Now I have learned midi in all those instruments except guitar... I have a real tube amp that sounds professional by itself... I am probably going to start uploading full songs soon... I am really impressed at the sound quality I have been getting lately... Seems the less you do the better it sounds!!!! PLUS, LOUD!!!! I'm learning that too! HAHAHA. I mixed all our stuff back then, but it was only about 10 demo songs. I had a really good ear for the mix However I never mastered anything... So, midi programming and Mastering has been my study for the last couple years... Thats how long it took to learn all my favorite stuff on midi... I can make a beat in a few minutes that sounds like a solid base to start my songs in a flash! Thats what I'm after... I can't play live, well, I guess I could I'm 52 but I'd like to see what I can do since I am this close!!!!! Over the monitors it sounds professional... I am working on the low end however, It's been a while! I need it to sound good in a car too! HAHAHAH There is a ton of stuff to remember.
The virtual modelling pianos far exceed the 12 samples of dynamic range that formed Warren's opinion here. The real issue comes from having to buy all new plugins and daws every few years to satiate the greedy tech gods. Its fine to live in the past and preserve old practices like amplification and mic technique (I do this myself) but times change.
I'm about 7 years into practicing with a plethora of what he thinks are virtual instruments. If it comes out that perfect, you put that effort in to make it that way, what virtual instruments actually are... it's always going to sound like a human played them.
Jazz, I feel, suffers the most from this, there's no real way to play a solo real dirty with grit, that purposefully off-key to a smooth crisp tuned note for making an emphasis on a beat, or any of the delightful quirks in how a person can play a note fall, and so on.... It's missing it's charm, it's heart and soul. Don't get me wrong, stuff like electro-swing jazz is a delight in an of itself and frequently uses digital instruments, or clipped prior performances played in a different sequence, or both, but it's most definitely not the same.
Music is obsolete in the sense, everything you need to know on music is already known, electronic and traditional need to meet in the middle and just exist. I mess with both natural and electronic sounds both have there pros and cons. It's music do you 😂
@@joshuadelaughter7968 seconded, definitely someone who never watched and is projecting lol Though, I do also disagree with the main point of the video. While Virtual Instruments have issues, I'm not sure this touch in the right one.
Imperfections are needed in any type of art in my opinion
I saw a demonstration of a guy sampling his own piano and then playing a major 2nd on the real thing and then on the samples. In the real things the vibrations of the two notes interact with each other through the wood and the air, but the samples can't. That blew my mind and it made sense why virtual instruments are so sterile.
Virtual modelling is why samples are going to be forgotten. Its why IRs will be forgotten.
@@Fl4ppers do you have examples of that? To recreate the sympathetic vibrations of strings, you probably would need a rock solid CPU.
@drrodopszin I get what you're saying but surely you can see how people said the same thing about amp sims. It's only a matter of time.
But I conceded I'm talking about the future and people are talking about now. But still, there are some awesome sims out there for the cost.
@@Fl4ppersNot happening until quantum processors at least. Also, until proper sound propagation simulation can be done. Sample replication with the help of Neural networks is much more likely.
This is extremely noticeable in drums especially
You should check out superior drummer 3.
Korg KR-55 pro sounds amazing. They do not stack individual samples but sample a complete bar. Seriously impressive 😎
Absolutely! I tried my absolute best over the span of a few weeks to make my programmed drums (Superior Drummer & Modern and Massive) sounding real. Then i bounced the Drum Track and showed it to my drummer. He immediately pointed out many many things that are weird in his ears. I didn't tell him that they are programmed.
Then we changed it until he was satisfied. Putting them back into the Session of the whole mix and it was amazing, nobody could tell anymore.
If i went straight to mixing the whole session with the mindset "nobody will hear it in context" i would have been proven wrong most likely!
That’s why we love live music so much as well.
idk this is a bit outdated. If you are making a straight piano song, sure you can tell.... but if you are adding piano or strings to a song? Literally not a single person would tell
Literally, you don't know that nobody can tell the difference. I bet there is professionals that will tell you correctly the differences.
Sure nobody can tell. How would they? They have no reference. But its defitnelly less versataile for the creator and thus take significantly more time to get the desired sound.
I feel like an important note to make here is that there is a difference between telling and feeling. It just so happens that in a blind test most people can't "tell" the difference between a lot of fake stuff: compressors,vsts,ampsims etc etc.
But at the same time, most people's favourite rock, indie and generally "acoustic" music was done with real drums, real pianos, real amps in nice studios, and often to tape.
Is it a fear among musicians that if they don't do it the right way they might sell their songs short, so they more often than not pay for the expensive rooms, good gear and do things analog and real, or do people just keep gravitating to properly recorded stuff.
People say that kempers, tonex and superior drummer are indistinguishable from the real thing. I'm still waiting to hear that great up and coming band do a top tier rock song that was recorded this way. i've heard some pop-rock, some metal...
.... but think Arcade Fire, Radiohead, The killers, Rolling stones, Beatles, Talking heads, joy division, the cure, the smiths, R.E.M, weezer, nirvana, the strokes, siosuixe and the banshees, the clash, the ramones, the the arctic monkeys, david bowie, pixies, big theif, dinosaur jr, pavement, snail mail, phoebe bridgers etc etc That really *emotive* kind of indie rock alternative music that is always done analog, real instruments, in the right room. i don't hear new bands making that kind of music with that kind of gear, and i have to wonder why considering so many of these bands came from the sort of backgrounds that would make this cheaper DIY style more appealing. It's almost always metalheads with this software and you have to really wonder why.
Few people might be able to say "oh hey that added piano is sampled and lacks dynamic range", but I would bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in yours that more people would say a version with a piano that's really played, not sampled, sounds better. Even if they couldn't explain why they think that.
Imperfections can be programmed. A simple one would be to vary the timing of each note by a small amount. You don't notice when it's not perfect, but it sounds mechanical when it is.
this typically, depending on the virtual instrument, still sounds horrible compared to organic instruments, because unless you want to spend half an hour to an hour on two measures youre not going ever going to get pitch, tuning, tempo, or volume similar to how you would in person
@@kiyoraka3537 It's only a matter of time before a phone app can "humanize" virtual instruments perfectly. Adapt or die.
Edit: I am not asking you to die. It was just a turn of phrase like "buckle my shoe" or something.
@@jayme3181 There's a certain threshold where people are not going to be interested. I personally don't wanna hear someone "fake" real drums with AI, i think it's inauthentic as a process. Make your drum machines sound like drum machines and save "real" drums for real drummers. and it has nothing to do with how it sounds, its the intention behind the work.
@@jayme3181 hardly, for these reasons:
1) theres not a market for this
producers today simply make do with what they have and in the end, it sounds like a good product; worst case, they go hunting for samples on the internet
2) it would put numerous people out of a job
many musicians get paid to record music for others, and corporate makes money off of those sales too; its not really a dead industry whatsoever and if there really existed a perfect software to replicate any instrument to a T, it would never even hit the market and the execs would ensure that
3) its downright impossible
to create audio through software, you have to either:
A) configure a waveform that sounds mildly like a given instrument- and you will never, and i mean NEVER, match it perfectly to an instrument because waveforms on a DAW and sound in real life dont necessarily correlate simply because of the science behind acoustics and soundwaves bouncing off certain materials inside the instrument itself
or B) have a professional record some audio clips for every note on the possible range of the instrument, which is the more usually taken route today, and this still will never compare to a real musician playing a song because of the clarity, tone, tuning, and timing that all varies so delicately in real world applications based on the atmospheric conditions, size and material of the room, variations of the instrument, background noise (however miniscule it may be), and more. to create a software that could mimic this is like preventing cancer from never happening again, its simply not going to happen
I think it's 50/50. But that said that's why you get the cheap packs, they're amature and are full of imperfections. For example I randomly bought a Viola Da Gamba pack and it's been the best purchase I've made for an instrument I can't play.
Light tremolo to fluctuate dynamics and vinyl for pitch is a quick fix if you’re in a rush.
Oh I forgot to mention, can you afford to host all these instruments? For a small fee I can have access to some pretty incredible sounding instruments I other would have a chance to have!
I’m a little wrong, some would say very 😂
Haha join the club
Well you have to put just as much time into it as a performer who practiced. You have to go in and perform the velocity of every single note. Studio One has a midi humanize feature which helps a lot 🙂👍
That’s why I don’t practice much before tracking. And I fine tune velocities and add drift to every instrument either in the VST if it has it or using a tape emulator.
Most virtual instruments have articulation controls. While it does take a significant amount of time to get them to sound like a real human played it, it's still completely doable. Anymore, if a virtual instrument sounds bad or "fake", it's the user's fault.
My VI parts of indistinguishable. Spend weeks on velocity tweaks if you need to.
I'm usually into hard rock, metal, punk...stuff like that. I drove my ol' lady's car to the shop yesterday, after her daughter drove it & the radio was on a hard rock/metal station... almost every song sounded like the same band. Especially the guitars, but really everything. It was so bad.
But it reminded me of why I never got into all that stuff & I basically still just put a mic or two in front of an amp & dial in my sound like that. No added effects or anything, unless it's part of whatever I'm actually playing.
There are bands & artists who still keep it pretty simple like that, but definitely not enough of them. Literally everything I heard on the radio yesterday may as well just been the same album by the same band.
It's ridiculous & sad....
Take a listen to Superior Drummer grooves. You will never ever tell the difference between them and a recorded drum kit.
What I like to do is mix virtual and real instruments, along with going into the midi editor and dragging notes slightly off beat, varying the velocity, etc. You can also use processing to add organic flavor to virtual sounds, like distortion and chorus/flange. Dialed in reverb and delay help to give the impression that the sound is in a space. Just my two cents as a producer, I think he’s right though. But virtual instruments definitely have their perks when you don’t have the money to buy authentic synth boards.
Humanize... Lots of these companies are adding a true feel to midi instruments... Off time beats longer notes shorter whatever you tell it to do... You can in fact control every note like a real person if you spend the time to do it... I'm older now I had my 15 years of band stuff... We played out everywhere in and around Cincinnati. The scene was dull for our type of music, but we played our hearts out! I play lead guitar Bass Vocals Drums Piano.... HAHAHA Now I have learned midi in all those instruments except guitar... I have a real tube amp that sounds professional by itself... I am probably going to start uploading full songs soon... I am really impressed at the sound quality I have been getting lately... Seems the less you do the better it sounds!!!! PLUS, LOUD!!!! I'm learning that too! HAHAHA. I mixed all our stuff back then, but it was only about 10 demo songs. I had a really good ear for the mix However I never mastered anything... So, midi programming and Mastering has been my study for the last couple years... Thats how long it took to learn all my favorite stuff on midi... I can make a beat in a few minutes that sounds like a solid base to start my songs in a flash! Thats what I'm after... I can't play live, well, I guess I could I'm 52 but I'd like to see what I can do since I am this close!!!!! Over the monitors it sounds professional... I am working on the low end however, It's been a while! I need it to sound good in a car too! HAHAHAH There is a ton of stuff to remember.
This also why new pop music all sound the same
The virtual modelling pianos far exceed the 12 samples of dynamic range that formed Warren's opinion here. The real issue comes from having to buy all new plugins and daws every few years to satiate the greedy tech gods. Its fine to live in the past and preserve old practices like amplification and mic technique (I do this myself) but times change.
He probably prefers vacuum tubes.
Definitely on guitar amps and for some synth saturation, but solid state has it's place.
What about an expander
This is great to hear Warren thankyou, it does concern me that musicianship will become obsolete and makes me feel better about my Flaws 🤘
There's something ineffable about all the little changes and imperfections inherent in using real instruments, like listening to vinyl.
Toby (Tobuscus) Turner? Is that you?
This man hasn't actually played with virtual instruments.
They don't just click into place, they always allow for human creativity.
ALWAYS.
I'm about 7 years into practicing with a plethora of what he thinks are virtual instruments. If it comes out that perfect, you put that effort in to make it that way, what virtual instruments actually are... it's always going to sound like a human played them.
midi humanizer. your welcome
Jazz, I feel, suffers the most from this, there's no real way to play a solo real dirty with grit, that purposefully off-key to a smooth crisp tuned note for making an emphasis on a beat, or any of the delightful quirks in how a person can play a note fall, and so on.... It's missing it's charm, it's heart and soul. Don't get me wrong, stuff like electro-swing jazz is a delight in an of itself and frequently uses digital instruments, or clipped prior performances played in a different sequence, or both, but it's most definitely not the same.
Music is obsolete in the sense, everything you need to know on music is already known, electronic and traditional need to meet in the middle and just exist. I mess with both natural and electronic sounds both have there pros and cons. It's music do you 😂
😊
He seems mad that he can't gatekeep his career/hobby against people who can't afford the equipment he can.
Clearly you haven't watched much of him.
@@joshuadelaughter7968 seconded, definitely someone who never watched and is projecting lol
Though, I do also disagree with the main point of the video. While Virtual Instruments have issues, I'm not sure this touch in the right one.
@@mitsuki1388 Agreed.
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