Guiness' masterful performance as Smiley is characterised by his internal feelings only showing in the tiniest of gestures. Smiley all through this scene has no anger but complete contempt. Still shaken from his brutal interrogation Haydon is oblivious to this despite knowing Smiley for many years. He thinks Smiley is just being professional and "civilised". But Smiley knows what is probably coming for Haydon and after this exchange is content to let it happen.
"My pen please" .... you can almost hear the unspoken implication that Haydon wanted it as a souvenir, to match Karla having Smiley's lighter. Two great actors showing how realism in drama requires understatement and implied nuances. You can hear almost hear the very walls listening to the dialogue.
well, in jail they don't let ppl keep things like pens or belts, so they don't hurt themselves. And with Heydon's demeanor and obvious depression that'd be a concern. at least that's how I read the situation.
Post World War ll, there is no greater tragedy written. That they were able to capture lightning in a bottle, Richardson certainly held the center of the narrative in the film. To face Guinness everyday. Wow.
Ian is also simply wonderful as the rich old man in the Miss Marple tv show Body in the Library (2004). His character Mr Jefferson has the opening lines in the show. It’s on You Tube
"I hate America very deeply The economic repression of the masses, institutionalized." Ian Richardson is fabulous This one scene puts it head and shoulders above the big budget screen version, which re-wrote this scene so that BiIl Haden has no real motivation at all.
The scene is less than perfect. The script is attempting to give Bill Haden the anti-american views of British spy Guy Burgess. But not quite correctly. Burgess hated america not because of the repression of the masses. But rather due to the rule of the masses in America and its lack of a british style upper class. What needs to be communicated in the script is that Haden is a snob and a fraud. That his spying wasn't about saving poor people. But rather that it was an extension of his upper-class snobbery and anger that Britain was no longer ruled by an artistocratic elite like him. The problem for the film was that the era of the Bill Hadens had come to an end around the 1970s. It was difficult in the film to explain to a contemporary audience exactly who and what Bill Hayden was.
interesting, I read it completely differently. The way Richardson delivers that line, pontificating, it comes off as contrived and disingenuous. and based on what we saw of Heydon, he doesn't strike me as the type caring about the oppressed masses. In my opinion, his political motivations were flimsy, his reasons were more personal. now, the part about his wasted youth, disappointment, lost hope, bitterness, sense of irrelevance, that's genuine. also, there are a few hints in the series that Bill is a closeted homosexual, which would compound these feelings.
@@Philly_Jump_Over_The_Fence kind of. I saw the BBC show as a kid and always knew who the mole was but when I got older and read the books and saw the film i always enjoyed them. It's the journey that's fun. Watching Smileys put the pieces together never gets old. I like Smileys People even more
@@BubblegumCrash332 I read the book first, but still enjoyed this and the movie, but there is nothing quite like the moment you find out it's Tailor, even though there is a blatant tell somewhere in the middle. I also really enjoyed The Honourable Schoolboy, as a pathos heavier tragedy.
I love the expressions on their faces as they listen to the tape of Haydon telling Polyakov to arrange his immediate escape from Britain. Percy looks as if he's just been told that he'll be shot tomorrow morning; Bland knows that his career is finished; Lacon is shocked; ...
@@jrbleau --The character is said to be based on Kim Philby. If he was portraying Philby, I'd say his performance was excellent. Philby was perhaps even more repugnant. He seemed to have some difficulty concealing "dupers delight"; he tends to briefly smirk after a good lie. czcams.com/video/N2A2g-qRIaU/video.html
@@dandavis8300 I was aware of that, but recall that even after he knew that Haydon caused the deaths of hundreds of operatives Guillam expressed a fondness for him which I found incongruous. The enormous charisma it would have required of Haydon to still elicit a kind of affection after that was at odds with Richardson's portrayal.
@@jrbleau Alleline, Bland and Esterhase are played as charisma-free zones by their actors. Not exactly likeable but Richardson invested Haydon with a little more personality than them.
Haydon seems to be wearing an old British battle dress tunic and trousers in custody. Not exactly prison uniform and not normal clothes either. (Later note) Surplus battle dress uniforms actually were issued to prison inmates in Britain, it seems, after the British Army stopped wearing battle dress. I guess they found another use for them...
It is clearer in the book, but when Haydon expresses his hostility to America this is actually a fairly common sentiment in the Circus. Of those at the top table in the Circus, only Alleline was pro-American although perhaps this played a part in his succeeding Control as head. A sort of resentment of Britain's decline in the world during the 20th century is background music in Le Carre's novels.
Very true indeed. And one of the best lines - Connie to George: "Poor loves. Trained to Empire, trained to rule the waves ... You're the last, George, ..." Heartbreaking.
I think it was an expression of irritation. I don't think his personality would have let him gun down Haydon. He isn't Mills in "Se7en", after all. Peter Guillam was more likely to impulsively kill Haydon.
At 9:50, when Haydon asks Smiley to make sure any mail from his club gets forwarded, and also the balance of his salary, I always thought that was so odd. A mole that had burrowed in so deeply over the years, that was passing on British intelligence to Karla and subtly mucking up operations at the Circus, and yet he was expecting ANYTHING from the Circus at that point, much less the remainder of his salary. And apparently he would have gotten it, based on Smiley's reply. I would have thought Haydon would consider himself lucky he wasn't shot, but I'd have to reread the book to see what the extenuating circumstances were. At least Haydon got his due in the end when Prideaux broke his neck.
To take his salary away would have required a court trial and conviction. Something that they were unlikely to do. He could have sued them from Russia and probably won. Its a combination of aristocratic arrogance and him understanding that he had the upper hand in the situation. Its somewhat based on the real-world british spy situation with Anthony Blunt. Blunt was a spy and assisted other soviet spies. But due to his background, he was untouchable legally. He could even still be invited to parties socially at the top of British society after it was known that he had been a spy.
They were going to trade him anyway so any pettiness is seen as just compounding the incompetence that allowed Haydon to do so much damage for so long and being rude doesn't help things. "I still believe the secret services are the only real expression of a nation's character" - it's all just professional courtesy. The only time that Smiley breaks that is when he grabs the door handle at the end, and you can see the regret of loss of control as he leaves.
Well he was owed the money, prisoners still get payed or have bills , even if he was executed or killed, his estate still exists, its not the clubs fault. . It's a relatively small kindness for smile ; who , is planning his revenge, including his death. And against karla . ( but with clean hands)
I thought it was interesting that his nose is bleeding AGAIN when Smiley talks to him on the second day, which means he was beat up again after Smiley left.
At 7:20 Haydon does seem to have an abrasion on his right cheek, so it is possible there was some rough stuff. Maybe a bit of the old "good cop bad cop" routine with some rough stuff from the "inquisitors" as the latter and a more gentlemanly chat with Smiley as the former. Haydon seems more irritated with the inquisitors than scared and when Smiley departs, does not seem to expect more unpleasant questioning. After the questioning stops Haydon is quite negligently guarded, which is how Prideaux gets to him. Haydon saying he has not been harmed physically, despite some evidence to the contrary, may just be a remnant of "stiff upper lip".
Bill Haydon's socio-philosophical personal belief methodology was so wonderful English Public School, steeped in English and Western History, Literature, Christianity, Philosophy, Latin, and Politics, it was an education designed for the future managers of an empire justified in its beliefs about its inherent goodness and power. What is sad is that his education, and his corresponding world view, blinded him to understand the ( even more insidious ) power that America represented, was not a top down control of the masses by economic forces, but a bottom up demand by individuals for their own needs and greed, supported by political-less multinational organizations that rivaled Nation-States, he was by this time "romantically disillusioned". Add to this his woeful ignorance of what Communism ( or more accurately Leninist-Salinism ) was in real terms to ordinary human beings, which underscores his romantic ideologies. George Smiley's wonderful and important conversation with Karla in the jail cell in India portrayed a significantly wiser and greater real-polotik knowledge with no romanticism.
I think I refuse to believe that a communist automatically makes a spy. Toby could have been the mole for all the right reasons. But, this was the intention, what espionage is all about.
Le Carre was an ex-spook who knew and had worked with Philby. The whole plot was inspired by Philby's betrayal and Haydon's character (the charm, the bisexuality, the erudition) was quite closely modelled on him.
"I hate America very deeply." I'm starting to discover more Brits who are aligned with that point of view... as if the UK would have fared better with the Soviets. All we did was have you cancel a fighter plane or two so as not to compete with Boeing and Lockheed.
after the war many emigrated to one of the colonies. My father left Canada pretty much just for that very reason: Brits' showed up and were incredibly resentful after being posted by the big banks to rural areas and the prairies. Not that all those farm boys in Canada enlisted EARLY and usually, being fit and a good hunting shot, were almost immediately into the action. We went to the USA and got rich. When I returned to "British" Columbia is ran into exactly the reason why we LEFT!
@@user-zp7jp1vk2i I suspect being far surpassed economically and militarily by the U.S. (but always superior to the Soviets) was a bigger cause of pro-Soviet sentiment in the U.K. It's there still. Probably won't change when the place becomes the Caliphate of Airstrip One either...
You are overthinking it. It is pure and outright resentment of the stronger bully. It is a bit like how duller witted AmeriKKKans resent and dislike Canadians for our linguistic sophistication and bon vivance that highlights their cloddish yokel provincialisms, especially that silly 12 Base measurement system they still use.
@@HC-cb4ypBritain has been a failing empire and it never recovered. It half asses the last 2 years of ww2 bc they had no more men. Do you think it got better? Little island horrible food always being the bastard father of America. As a 🇺🇸home historian I’ve noticed a lot of bias in English circles.
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
"That was very good of you." Absolute, icy, contemptuous politeness.
minimalist reply.
Watch Guinness' face. Utter contempt it is.
"Idiots i can't talk to people like that!" The way ian richardson says this makes me crack up😂
Especially since he was responsible for recruiting and keeping these idiots as part of his job as the mole.
Smiley tosses the pen to him rather than handing it - a subtle expression of contempt.
Guiness' masterful performance as Smiley is characterised by his internal feelings only showing in the tiniest of gestures. Smiley all through this scene has no anger but complete contempt. Still shaken from his brutal interrogation Haydon is oblivious to this despite knowing Smiley for many years. He thinks Smiley is just being professional and "civilised". But Smiley knows what is probably coming for Haydon and after this exchange is content to let it happen.
"My pen please" .... you can almost hear the unspoken implication that Haydon wanted it as a souvenir, to match Karla having Smiley's lighter. Two great actors showing how realism in drama requires understatement and implied nuances. You can hear almost hear the very walls listening to the dialogue.
Such an occurrence was probably being tape-recorded anyway so the walls would indeed have been listening...
Smiley didn't want Bill to have his pen as well as his wife.
well, in jail they don't let ppl keep things like pens or belts, so they don't hurt themselves. And with Heydon's demeanor and obvious depression that'd be a concern. at least that's how I read the situation.
Haydon's faux "Sorry" when caught out ('twere am honest mistake) drips with condescension.
Prisons sell pens in the canteen. @@nitzky8936
Post World War ll, there is no greater tragedy written. That they were able to capture lightning in a bottle, Richardson certainly held the center of the narrative in the film. To face Guinness everyday. Wow.
Yeah, you couldn't have a lightweight opposing Guinness in scenes like these.
Ian is also simply wonderful as the rich old man in the Miss Marple tv show Body in the Library (2004). His character Mr Jefferson has the opening lines in the show. It’s on You Tube
"I hate America very deeply The economic repression of the masses, institutionalized." Ian Richardson is fabulous This one scene puts it head and shoulders above the big budget screen version, which re-wrote this scene so that BiIl Haden has no real motivation at all.
Useful idiots spiteful about Suez.
The scene is less than perfect. The script is attempting to give Bill Haden the anti-american views of British spy Guy Burgess. But not quite correctly. Burgess hated america not because of the repression of the masses. But rather due to the rule of the masses in America and its lack of a british style upper class.
What needs to be communicated in the script is that Haden is a snob and a fraud. That his spying wasn't about saving poor people. But rather that it was an extension of his upper-class snobbery and anger that Britain was no longer ruled by an artistocratic elite like him.
The problem for the film was that the era of the Bill Hadens had come to an end around the 1970s. It was difficult in the film to explain to a contemporary audience exactly who and what Bill Hayden was.
Agreed. The film made it seem like it was all vanity.
They took that out? What a shame. Haydon could be a pre-Brexiteer.
interesting, I read it completely differently. The way Richardson delivers that line, pontificating, it comes off as contrived and disingenuous. and based on what we saw of Heydon, he doesn't strike me as the type caring about the oppressed masses.
In my opinion, his political motivations were flimsy, his reasons were more personal.
now, the part about his wasted youth, disappointment, lost hope, bitterness, sense of irrelevance, that's genuine. also, there are a few hints in the series that Bill is a closeted homosexual, which would compound these feelings.
For anyone who likes the film and show you must read the book. It's nothing but the same amazing characters and story but just more of it.
Fantastic book. But knowing the story would diminish it somewhat.
@@Philly_Jump_Over_The_Fence kind of. I saw the BBC show as a kid and always knew who the mole was but when I got older and read the books and saw the film i always enjoyed them. It's the journey that's fun. Watching Smileys put the pieces together never gets old. I like Smileys People even more
@@Philly_Jump_Over_The_Fence It reads so beautifully it is a nice re-read, but yes, knowing it's Tailor takes something out of it.
@@BubblegumCrash332 I read the book first, but still enjoyed this and the movie, but there is nothing quite like the moment you find out it's Tailor, even though there is a blatant tell somewhere in the middle.
I also really enjoyed The Honourable Schoolboy, as a pathos heavier tragedy.
I love the expressions on their faces as they listen to the tape of Haydon telling Polyakov to arrange his immediate escape from Britain. Percy looks as if he's just been told that he'll be shot tomorrow morning; Bland knows that his career is finished; Lacon is shocked; ...
Actors don't come more silken and seductive than Ian Richardson
If I remember the novel correctly, he's supposed to be likable. In the TV series, however, he's as unlikable as they come.
@@jrbleau --The character is said to be based on Kim Philby. If he was portraying Philby, I'd say his performance was excellent. Philby was perhaps even more repugnant. He seemed to have some difficulty concealing "dupers delight"; he tends to briefly smirk after a good lie.
czcams.com/video/N2A2g-qRIaU/video.html
@@dandavis8300 I was aware of that, but recall that even after he knew that Haydon caused the deaths of hundreds of operatives Guillam expressed a fondness for him which I found incongruous. The enormous charisma it would have required of Haydon to still elicit a kind of affection after that was at odds with Richardson's portrayal.
@@dandavis8300 lol damn he was one slimy creep.
@@jrbleau Alleline, Bland and Esterhase are played as charisma-free zones by their actors. Not exactly likeable but Richardson invested Haydon with a little more personality than them.
5:05 - "I still believe the secret services is the only real expression of a nation's character." Truly revelational quote.
Haydon seems to be wearing an old British battle dress tunic and trousers in custody. Not exactly prison uniform and not normal clothes either.
(Later note) Surplus battle dress uniforms actually were issued to prison inmates in Britain, it seems, after the British Army stopped wearing battle dress. I guess they found another use for them...
It is clearer in the book, but when Haydon expresses his hostility to America this is actually a fairly common sentiment in the Circus. Of those at the top table in the Circus, only Alleline was pro-American although perhaps this played a part in his succeeding Control as head. A sort of resentment of Britain's decline in the world during the 20th century is background music in Le Carre's novels.
Very true indeed. And one of the best lines - Connie to George: "Poor loves. Trained to Empire, trained to rule the waves ... You're the last, George, ..." Heartbreaking.
In that sense they were quintessential British public school boys of their generation with all their prejudices.
LeCarre was no big fan of America or Americans either.
@@oklahomahank2378 As I go through the life, I see their points.
Jealous of those flags on the moon I guess
Ian Richardson - fantastic actor - watch private Schultz if you doubt that - he played 3 characters in the series, all poles apart
1:05 - 1:12 Smiley resisting the temptation to shoot Haydon then and there - the gesture with the pistol.
I think it was an expression of irritation. I don't think his personality would have let him gun down Haydon. He isn't Mills in "Se7en", after all. Peter Guillam was more likely to impulsively kill Haydon.
That is a very British interrogation. I'll miss the Brits...
They're already gone
Ideological subversion knocked them out. Google yuri bezmenov. The soviet union strikes back.
“...join the queue.
Point?”
“Point..”
Smiley muffles his pronunciation of "point", as if he is trying to suppress rage.
A pity you didn't include the scene where Jim kills Bill. It's also brilliant.
To clever by half, all of them, none of them.
Again I despise BBC not to do 'The Honorable Schoolboy' when they had the chance to do it with Alec Guinness
Jim rightfully dealt with Bill as payback for the lost agents. I actually suspected Toby for awhile.
Payback for the months of torture at Karla's hands, that Bill must have anticipated. Both needed to know what Control told Jim.
At 9:50, when Haydon asks Smiley to make sure any mail from his club gets forwarded, and also the balance of his salary, I always thought that was so odd. A mole that had burrowed in so deeply over the years, that was passing on British intelligence to Karla and subtly mucking up operations at the Circus, and yet he was expecting ANYTHING from the Circus at that point, much less the remainder of his salary. And apparently he would have gotten it, based on Smiley's reply. I would have thought Haydon would consider himself lucky he wasn't shot, but I'd have to reread the book to see what the extenuating circumstances were. At least Haydon got his due in the end when Prideaux broke his neck.
That stunned me too. Why should the UK pay a Soviet double agent?!
To take his salary away would have required a court trial and conviction. Something that they were unlikely to do. He could have sued them from Russia and probably won.
Its a combination of aristocratic arrogance and him understanding that he had the upper hand in the situation.
Its somewhat based on the real-world british spy situation with Anthony Blunt. Blunt was a spy and assisted other soviet spies. But due to his background, he was untouchable legally. He could even still be invited to parties socially at the top of British society after it was known that he had been a spy.
Do you actually believe Smiley wouldn't be lying?
They were going to trade him anyway so any pettiness is seen as just compounding the incompetence that allowed Haydon to do so much damage for so long and being rude doesn't help things. "I still believe the secret services are the only real expression of a nation's character" - it's all just professional courtesy. The only time that Smiley breaks that is when he grabs the door handle at the end, and you can see the regret of loss of control as he leaves.
Well he was owed the money, prisoners still get payed or have bills , even if he was executed or killed, his estate still exists, its not the clubs fault. .
It's a relatively small kindness for smile ; who , is planning his revenge, including his death. And against karla . ( but with clean hands)
Compromise of values for the sake of "protecting" said values is itself defeat.
Traitorous scum can always justify their behavior.
He denies that there was "coercion", but he does look like he was knocked about a bit after being arrested.
I thought it was interesting that his nose is bleeding AGAIN when Smiley talks to him on the second day, which means he was beat up again after Smiley left.
@@saltech3444 Hard to say as blunt force trauma would probably leave bruising, which he does not show. It might be a psychological response.
At 7:20 Haydon does seem to have an abrasion on his right cheek, so it is possible there was some rough stuff. Maybe a bit of the old "good cop bad cop" routine with some rough stuff from the "inquisitors" as the latter and a more gentlemanly chat with Smiley as the former. Haydon seems more irritated with the inquisitors than scared and when Smiley departs, does not seem to expect more unpleasant questioning. After the questioning stops Haydon is quite negligently guarded, which is how Prideaux gets to him.
Haydon saying he has not been harmed physically, despite some evidence to the contrary, may just be a remnant of "stiff upper lip".
At about 1:14 Gerald seems to be shoved out the door, and then he stumbles a moment later.
And he is limping.
Join the queue, bruh..😂😂😂
Bill Haydon's socio-philosophical personal belief methodology was so wonderful English Public School, steeped in English and Western History, Literature, Christianity, Philosophy, Latin, and Politics, it was an education designed for the future managers of an empire justified in its beliefs about its inherent goodness and power. What is sad is that his education, and his corresponding world view, blinded him to understand the ( even more insidious ) power that America represented, was not a top down control of the masses by economic forces, but a bottom up demand by individuals for their own needs and greed, supported by political-less multinational organizations that rivaled Nation-States, he was by this time "romantically disillusioned". Add to this his woeful ignorance of what Communism ( or more accurately Leninist-Salinism ) was in real terms to ordinary human beings, which underscores his romantic ideologies. George Smiley's wonderful and important conversation with Karla in the jail cell in India portrayed a significantly wiser and greater real-polotik knowledge with no romanticism.
He is not wrong about US and his resentment towards it. He was wrong about soviets.
I think I refuse to believe that a communist automatically makes a spy. Toby could have been the mole for all the right reasons. But, this was the intention, what espionage is all about.
Great acting. Too bad about the video quality.
this has a lot of the same details as the story of Kim Philby..
Le Carre was an ex-spook who knew and had worked with Philby. The whole plot was inspired by Philby's betrayal and Haydon's character (the charm, the bisexuality, the erudition) was quite closely modelled on him.
Nah Susan ARROGANT till the end ARROGANT
Obi Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy Wan Kenobi
nobody gives a shit about your shitty children's movies
Francis Urquhart and Obi-Wan Kenobi!
@@onursaygun7645 , I was joking.
Funny how these characters had such far reaching echoes, like the fight against communism at the southern tip of africa for example.
"I hate America very deeply." I'm starting to discover more Brits who are aligned with that point of view... as if the UK would have fared better with the Soviets. All we did was have you cancel a fighter plane or two so as not to compete with Boeing and Lockheed.
after the war many emigrated to one of the colonies. My father left Canada pretty much just for that very reason: Brits' showed up and were incredibly resentful after being posted by the big banks to rural areas and the prairies. Not that all those farm boys in Canada enlisted EARLY and usually, being fit and a good hunting shot, were almost immediately into the action. We went to the USA and got rich. When I returned to "British" Columbia is ran into exactly the reason why we LEFT!
@@user-zp7jp1vk2i I suspect being far surpassed economically and militarily by the U.S. (but always superior to the Soviets) was a bigger cause of pro-Soviet sentiment in the U.K. It's there still. Probably won't change when the place becomes the Caliphate of Airstrip One either...
You are overthinking it. It is pure and outright resentment of the stronger bully. It is a bit like how duller witted AmeriKKKans resent and dislike Canadians for our linguistic sophistication and bon vivance that highlights their cloddish yokel provincialisms, especially that silly 12 Base measurement system they still use.
@@HC-cb4ypBritain has been a failing empire and it never recovered. It half asses the last 2 years of ww2 bc they had no more men. Do you think it got better? Little island horrible food always being the bastard father of America. As a 🇺🇸home historian I’ve noticed a lot of bias in English circles.