Would you use a WAGO 221 CEILING ROSE?
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Screwless terminals such as the Wago 221 are popular with UK electricians. We also see screwless terminals in LED downlights. So why has no one launched a WAGO connector based ceiling rose?
As ever eFIXX love to help bring new products to market which make electricians lives easier. This prototype ceiling rose using Wago connectors turned up at the studio so we decided to test it out.
== 🕐 Time Stamps - Cut to the action 🕕 ==
00:00 Electricians’ - would you buy a screwless ceiling rose?
01:18 WAGO ceiling rose prototype.
02:20 Screw-less terminals are popular on downlights
03:15 Gary tests out the WAGO ceiling rose prototype
07:24 Challenges with this prototype design
07:59 Could this be supplied as a chassis only?
08:40 The BIG question - would you buy one and what price?
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#efixx #wago #connectors - Věda a technologie
Anything Wago I’d use without hesitation. I’m glad they’re getting their feet more firmly in the market.
+1
Agreed!
Amen 😎👍
@balls up You're silly.
I think the majority of electricians would to be honest . Convenience , consistency of terminations and of course time . Time is everything, it’s a winner for me .
Thanks for a great comment
Cost is the drawback, electricians use whats included in a light kit.
Great no more swearing at those terminal screws that like to round off or crack the casing with the screwdriver I'm sold on the idea
Thanks for your feedback
Screw-less terminations have to be a good thing. For connection quality consistency.
Would love to see more electricians using more suitably size earth sleeving as opposed the generic 3mm stuff. On ceiling roses or down lights using 2mm sleeving just gives for a neater job
Amen to that. Barely use the horrible stuff.
Be even nicer if the CPC was already insulated!
@@iantaylor6538 I seem to remember it’s by design, not cost, that it isn’t.
I don't loop in at roses anymore, I do all my connections in wago box with a fly lead out to the rose with a single cable, makes it future proof and a lot easier to fit modern flush mount light fixtures
I generally use MK pendant sets these days, the helpful features for me are 1) clear base 2) inclusion of a little bit of sleeving in the pack 3) metal surround for bayonet lamp to hook onto. MK sell them in sealed plastic bags which is a good job as at least one of the terminal screws has usually shaken out in transit. Used to paying £2-£2.50, if it comes with the above features and 221's fitted (1x 2way 2x 3way, 1x 5way) I'd be happy to pay £35 for 10
As someone who hates the awkwardly angled terminals with no decent plastic molding to guide the screwdriver on a lot of ceiling roses, I like this idea very much. Generally on most new places I wire I take feeds to the switches and have 47mm boxes, as often end up having to fit flat plates with dimmers, and most of the designer lighting that gets specified barely has the capacity to house 1 cable.
I would imagine anyone coming along to replace one of these with a decorative fitting would probably just pull the wagos out of the molding and house them in the base of the new fitting, which is far better than the old DIY trick of busing up the plastic on a ceiling rose and taping up the exposed brass terminals.
I have seen that way to many times , bits of sellotape around the bare brass terminals and jammed into an ikea light fitting.
Cool, I’d use one in the right situation. I use the quickwire method a lot, good if they could do one with a three core fan option too for above a bathroom.
I'm hoping Wago takes over the world . best thing invented ,since a slice of bread 🍞
Best thing since copper wire
I used to work at the bakery where they invented sliced bread. When the showed the MD he said " Wow this is the best thing since, erh, erh erh"
Until we find out that the plastic hardens through constant heating and cooling leaving dangerous “maintenance free” connections.
This is way of the future, and to be encouraged.
Well done guys.
My first thought from the thumb nail was "how do you get a 4th cable in there"
Nice to know you addressed it as "Not possible yet"
I would think by using the wago connectors you could only improve the circuit connection. Potentially resulting to a reduction in termination faults
Let’s hope so
Wago and Quinetic = DIY bliss.
Crabtree used to have switches with pushin terminals, we fitted thousands for Norwich City Council.
Would be great to see more accessories with push fit.
Would definitely use them. To many years mucking about. Loved it when pre wires lamp holders came in. Although I am able to strip flex quicker than my younger colleagues 😄
Thanks for commenting 👍
About time we got rid of those daft little screws where the end gets gnarled, thread strips and you always end up dropping one, NEVER to be seen again. Wago, quick, convenient, flexible and so much more adaptble for future configurations
My wife is getting very worried about my increasing over-excitement about the ever increasing choices in WAGO products. I need to get out a bit more. 😆
A very good video to watch.. You boys always produce top stuff... Thanks. 👍
Love it, I'd hope it was circa £3 plus connectors. If you made enough they could be that price and they would take over. I'll buy x 20 right now. 👌
Yes and Yes.
While you are in a roll with Wago - can you do a session on mounting frames for Wagos, boxes for mounting them in and the Wago din rail mounted stuff - with part numbers of course.😉
I can help you with this if you want.
Push in connectors would be amazing to use as standard. I’ve often had to install 20 Down lighters in a room, fingers ache after a day of wrestling cables
The industry needs this but I also need this it's magic
I would argue that anything that increases 'first time right' is a good thing. The current issue in big builds is that the installer at 2nd fix doesn't often test it, and so has no incentive to get it 100% right. One single fault is a real pain to find and fix. How many housebuilders DON'T have a wiring issue reported as a snag by either the person testing/inspecting, or (and we hope not this late) by a new house owner? Wago 221s are a godsend. Period. In a socket? Yes please, yesterday. The same goes for light switches. My view is that the 221s should be in the pattress though, NOT the face plate (as you glued them). So, the socket would need to have fly leads to link to the 221s, which means a 4 way 221 would be needed (ring final [2] PLUS spur plus fly lead). In effect, if you look at how a commercially installed socket is done in the USA, they now tend to have a fly lead on the socket to link to a 221 (or equivalent) where all the wiring comes in/out. Take a look at this Spelsberg junction box from CPC: cpc.farnell.com/spelsberg/80680701/ip65-grey-junction-box-screwless/dp/EN85174. That is in production already. The connection block at the top unscrews and comes out. Genius. In a pattress, you could fit the wires to the 221s, slot them in to the carrier, screw that in, introduce the socket fly leads, fit the socket to the pattress.
totally depends on the situation, design, customers need/wants and costs. but id use these in a heartbeat.
I hate working above my head so this seem like it would help.
Love this. I would use them every where. Save labour time.
Brilliant idea, makes fault finding soo much easier.
👍
Speaking from a Customer/Consumer Point of View I think these would actually increase safety as this would mean that customers who self install these pendant roses would not need to spend more time on step ladders than what they would need to do if they were to screw them in. Secondly I think having this for the trade would mean that as customer I would know that in less than 10 mins my electrician I contract to carry out the works would charge me less or be able to carry out more install's in my property within the 1 hour hourly rate! Saving me time, money and the contractor their time too! I think screwless sockets and light fittings are the way to go as I would feel safer knowing the terminations have been made correctly to the right tightness and it would avoid arcing and sparking!
I've always thought why has nobody thought about this before. Obviously would depend on the cost.I would happily pay an extra quid for the ceiling roses with screwless terminals. Anything that would save time.
I think the CPC can stay as screw with one terminal. So a hybrid version.
Great comment 👍
Again, something like this is a #gamechanger. It would certainly stop people balancing on a ladder tightening little screws with various different tightening tools. They'll have to be cheap for people to start using them. Great video guys.
Thanks 👍
Yes please. Get them on the market ASAP.
This is genius. Love it.
Like a work of art 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I was looking for something like this the other day. I'm dying for this product.
Wow - I love Gaz great work 🦾
Great Video lads, with more and more smart switches,kinetic etc,becoming more popular,I think two plate is going to be the norm for lighting.It would be a quick second fix on a new build,but they would probably be replaced.
Hi, Just a thought. As modern smoke alarms are fed from the light fittings. Has this rose got a seperate set
of wagoe's for this or do you just double the smoke alarm feed wires into the same terminals?
Would like to of seen you put the whole pendant up to see if the cpc terminal fitted under the screw on cover because it looks like it protrudes down a bit to far but still a great idea👍
I like a good wago. I would probably use these to be honest. The screw terminals in the current versions, from many different brands are just not up to scratch.
Hi chaps, love the idea and wago.
Do you rawl plug your ceiling roses. So many are fitted badly without them and just in to the plasterboard. I always use rawl plugs and I’m forever fixing loose ceiling roses because sparkies don’t fit them well.
These are brilliant! Would definitely use them!
👊
Would love to see something like this on a shower isolater.
👊
🤣
😳
That would be a fire safety precaution upgrade.
Clock Scolmore are my no. 1 shower pull cord. Take a look. Revolutionised it for me
That would be an improvement even for Germany.
Now there are always three cables hanging from the ceiling, black, blue, yellow-green and a hook. A plastic cap is pushed over.
With every new lamp these cables get worse.
And if these cables are then cast into a concrete ceiling, then you cannot change them. (Saved on the flexible hose during construction, cost cents). 221 are also easy to clamp on a ladder.
Notice: The cables are clamped in boxes in the wall if old or new behind the switch.
To overcome additional feeds why can’t we have two conductors into one terminal. If a 221 is rated up to 4mm. 1+1 is 2 and 1.5 + 1.5 is 3 for lighting wires. I have seen many others do this. Is this a problem?
They can only properly grip one wire, particularly if it's solid core you can get away with multiple stranded wires in one terminal but I only do that on SELV temporary stuff, not a good idea in a permanent mains install.
@@mfx1
for multistrands use proper ferrules /reducers for the required size with a crimp.
@@sriyantra1939 Maybe for a single stranded wire, but that wouldn't work well for trying to more than one wire ion one terminal as there's a good chance one won't end up being gripped properly, also ferrules are not strictly needed or even always desirable for spring clamp terminals like Wagos, only for screw/cage clamp ones although many people prefer it, that's up to them.
For older installations in changing just a couple of pendants possibly where there are doubled up terminations I cant see the wago pendant being any benefit but for new installs and multiple pendants fitted it could well save time and possible money over the time saved.
Excellent. Thanks.
👍
This is a great initiative guy wow, no one saw this coming but Efixx saw it from far and today here we go, I love it. Where can we find it?
Hi fellas, love your stuff, very educational, thanks, but I do have a question regarding BS1363 design, I recently had some 2 gang TCP Smart sockets with wifi app controllable switching, all good except the two earth connection points on the outlet were not inter-connected, and I was concerned that the average DIYer swapping these out may not realise that they could break the continuity of the earth ring if they added more than one of these, do you know if the standard specifies that sockets should have internal connection between earth terminals? as I believe this could be putting people in danger of not having earth fault protection. Thanks.
Send us a link to the product or a photo and we’ll take a look. TCP have a track record in electrocution- www.luxreview.com/2015/03/12/led-lamp-shocks-bulb-tester-at-uk-consumer-publication/
@@efixx for some reason my link gets deleted by youtube, so go search for 'TCP Smart Wall Socket with USB' sold on ebay by a big high street catalog shop ;)
May be a silly question, Can we use 3 way connector where there are only 2 connections and the 3rd slot keeps empty in the wago? Does that makes any safety issue? Thank You
I would use them all day long compared to the screw version,and fault finding would be made easier too,do love an mk ceiling rose too❤️
Ktech makes the “mbox l32” which is sold in various locations. Sold as a wiring centre but can be good for other complicated set ups with multiple switches for bathrooms etc. Ktech has, for years, had “kRose” as an upcoming product but it isn’t yet in the market. I don’t know but I always assumed it was a wago based ceiling rose. They’re very local to where I work so hopefully the prototype you have is from them. Wagos beat screw terminals for me every time!
HI, what is the wire stripping tool you use, thanks for a great channel
Instead of fiddling with both the diagonal cutters and the big wirestripper tool during the install, you could have used a cable cutter. The CC22 is the go to here in the nordic countries. It has a cutting area made specifically for stripping wires.
One recommendation I would make is that Waco could colour code the orange keys in brown, blue and brown/white stripe (switch live)
That would be good however then you need to buy 3 times the amount of wagos and not being that cheap just adds to the cost which in turn reduces profit.
Just add little stickers as standard with each one.
You had me at Wago. Great gear and a doddle to install. Stops your average punter from killing the terminal screws as well
Yes would use them, even with being a bit more expensive say around £3.50(bulk)-£5 as standard rose start £1 the wagos 30p each.
Like the guys said it would be good to have a rose without connectors which would be cheaper as I carry a selection of wago's in the van anyway.
2 things missing!!!
1. Exposed recessed conductive parts to allow testing without removing the conductors.
2. Intumescent pad
Whilst the ease of fitting is good, for me the big draw the confidence in the clamping of the wire. Most basic roses use the end of the screw to clamp rather having a pressure leaf to spread the clamping force.... time and time again I come across either loose or over-tightened resulting in broken conductors. The other big bonus is 1 wire 1 terminal, no twisting together etc.
Hell yes. Tiny Screw terminals are so sharp they make it really easy to cut through a 1.5mm cable. How many times have I have to re-terminate the cable cos I’ve chopped through it cos I do the screw up too hard.....
Your prototype is thicker ‘cos the wagos are at an angle. Could be thinner by laying them flat, at the risk of having to be a larger diameter. But that layout isn’t required... would a north south east west layout allow you to keep the same diameter?
1st question - yes, 100% I would use one, I hate ceiling roses
2nd question - if I was doing a rewire I will never take the feed to the ceiling rose so wouldn't need as many connectors, I would pay around £2.50 for it.
I can't quite think why but I think this video is once of the best you've done, nudge nudge, wink wink!!
how would you do it then?
Would you feed the mains through the switch then the switch on to the pendant?
I tried that and it keeps tripping...I tried it the normal way too and the same again.
Only one of the ones I'm doing that's doing this at present...really frustrating!
@@weedfreer Take the permanent line to the switch, then the switch line up to the pendant, the return from the switch line is connected to the Neutrals in the back of the backbox, pretty common setup to be honest, can't believe you've not seen a feed to switch before
@@DoctorElectricCZcams I have...that's the point.
I've wired the rest of this section up like this going via LED downlighters just fine.
I think either I have a cable issue here or the fitting needs replacing personally.
I've even attempted to set it up as per usual standard by putting a permanent feed into the rose and then running through the loop block to the switch and then into the bulb's live terminal and it's still failing 🤔
I've replaced the cable from the switch up inside the wall also already for new (although, I may do it again using 3 and earth so I can leave a neutral there in case I may want to get some fancy smart switch later on)
In new builds these would be used, then within a year or two many of them ripped out for aesthetically pleasing light fittings. So, those push fit lighting j-boxes would be used shoved into the ceiling space.
I only have one ceiling light fitting in my place - a very expensive pendant light over a dining table, which does not use a standard ceiling rose.
Good idea but no can’t help thinking that in a couple of years we will have to resign our screwdrivers to a box in the under the stairs or the bin, and any jo blogs can do there own electrical work and won’t need us , other then to put there cockups right and make safe.
So no I won’t be using them.
Great video guy’s as always 👍👍❤️⚡️
Time saved installing but time lost testing/FF. Not sure if 221 comply with GS38 because I have found my megger probes are far to small to perform tests.
Wagos all the way personally Id expect these to be on all accessories where practical within the next 2 years
Let’s hope so 👍
The thing that stands to me regardless of experience and believing that we can make a sound connection everytime at the optimum torque realistically we can't , I am really pushing for our contractors to use products like these on new builds
Wago's are the way to go, brilliant idea. ⚡
🦾👍
Yes they would be a great asset
Having these would've been awesome last week. where are these from?
What about having the ceiling rose fix to a plasterboard ceiling similar to a plasterboard back box.
Yep. Great idea, just needs making as a non-prototype version now.
True
Be a great one for Deborah Meaden on Dragons Den ..
Great idea, it all comes down to cost though. Maybe the connections used in the F type downlight could be the way forward to bring the price down?
Yes I would. Good video as always. I’d pay about £10 for one . Especially if you have to go back and replace the light for different one in the Future
👍
If the choice was between a ceiling rose with screw terminals and one with WAGO terminals I would opt for the WAGO.
But there are a few issues we should think about when we talk about WAGO type ceiling roses.
The first is cost, a screw terminal ceiling rose is fairly cheap to buy so must be cheap to manufacture and a WAGO one may not be able to compete on price particularly in a market which is shrinking.
As a personal example of this I had a look around my own house, when we moved in a long time ago we had 13 ceiling roses in total.
Now we have only 7 ceiling roses and 11 other light fittings which I cant call a ceiling rose as they fit directly to the ceiling and over half of them have multiple GU10 LED bulbs on a bar.
These light fittings have push in type terminals in the base of them, some even have multiple common terminals to allow loop in etc.
So I think the days of the traditional ceiling rose are numbered, a lot of new houses have LED downlighters everywhere.
This would be something I use when replacing exsisting lights, but considering as an industry we are moving towards wiring our loop in and out at the switch instead of the light I don't see wago bothering to manufacture these. Then again I could be wrong, it's been known to happen 🤷🏽♂️
Would love to see it become standard to loop at the switchesand no longer use ceiling rozes point blank as it is a nightmare with most light fixtures 😃
The 221s are just awesome. So much easier and quicker.
Is there anything to stop roses being bigger, with more space for more connections or even a junction/adaptable box with a flex outlet? How about using the push button (Ashley box style) like on your downlighter review? I'm a huge fan of Wago but we're yet to get the full potential. New light fittings with them in place? No more balancing a light on your head while you hold multiple cables into a connector block & twist the screwdriver with you teeth!
Just fitted those f types just looked at them and they were in! Lovely jubly
Toolstation!! £12
i would pay more for screw terminals, push fit is a pain in the arse for testing, yes they put a tiny hole for testing but i have yet to see a test lead that fits in the hole.
I would say that this would be a staple for me, not because of anything else other than the fact the quality of the screw terminals nowadays are terrible, I’d rather pay the extra quid more to use these 100%
Feed through the switch method?
Nice video, Don't think that they have any place in the modern home. Would be a thing for a new build, but many of my cliens contact me to change the pendant for
a more decorative fitting. Maybe the construction company should put roses in and not the pendant, that way the person buying the house can have a choice of
light fixtures. I have quite a lot of pendant light fittinge which I have kept ( Just in case anyone needs one replacing ) But to my knowledge no one does.
Funny I did this just the other day!
I’d expect these to be a similar price. I’d just have them without the connectors so all plastic. That should reduce the price of manufacture. Then supply your own wagos. We’re doing lots of properties and getting 7 pendants up over 30 flats soon adds up time and money wise
Tbh wiring up a standard pendant batten isn't that hard only that as you pointed out the terminals are smaller than standard terminal driver and makes difficult to tighten. They could just make pendants etc slightly bigger and accommodate extra terminals . But I guess as more people use the feed to switch method you dont need that many terminals
as a yank, we'd dustbin the ceiling rose. we prefer to have a 3 and 5.8" round box recessed into the ceiling, and then any surface mounted light will screw to that box. also, we've been feeding the power through the switch box for many years now, and most of us prefer it that way, because it eliminates using a color of conductor for a different purpose than the color code implies.
as for the Wagos, I don't trust screwless connections for power going through, because we have had screwless receptacles for years, and they're a bit rubbish. I'd estimate I see between 10 and 20 screwless connections fail for every mechanically fastened connection that fails. fixture connections, I don't mind so much, because they don't carry as much amperage and they don't black out half a circuit if they go bad.
What call the wires stripper?
Thank you
I like the idea. Simple, consistent connections must be a good thing. I just wonder if having the earth terminals sitting vertically could make them a bit bulkier. Other than that, if the price is right then I’m for them 👍
They need to invent a Wago terminal that accepts multiple cables for the cpc
have a look at LK's roses, they are made for 5 lead wires instead, seem more roomy with better cable retention
? LK, is that the name of the manufacturer or the seller ?
Even if the rose came without wago's and we used our own it would be a brilliant option. Even so, I would pay the extra with them built in. Would it be an issue to spur off though with only single conductor access in each lever? Great channel guys you are doing us all proud, thanks for the effort.
The option to buy just the basic model and upgrade it yourself with additional wago's would be IMHO the way to go, this will keep the initial cost down, allow 1 model to be bought in bulk yet can fit multiple situations.
As long as the std wago can be fitted.
Not to forget wago clones, the other brands that make the same thing - can some of those fit too?
Great idea, i would use, if price was similar to a standard rose and not the usual over pricing by wago.
So you want better technology/better safety and reliability/ease of fitting but you dont want to pay for the r&d?
Well done
Oi…
Any update on when/if/why not, these will be available?
I asked MK for a WAGO Mains Socket 10 years ago…
Definitely time now for Mains Supply and Ceiling Roses using WAGO.
Any suggestions for an existing WAGO product to supply an island induction Hob (possibly pop up sockets too) using fixed wiring in wall of 4mm2 to the flexi pre-wired to Neff Hob? Typically it’s not long enough to reach the wall…
Oh I’d pay £1 for a WAGO ceiling rose, after all if I’m populating it myself with 221’s there would be no metal in it.
The biggest innovation would be having insulation on the CPC in a 1 mil light cable, as sleeving is a chore and there are some that won't do it.
Wagos are not only quicker they provide the perfect amount of pressure on the conductor unlike screw terminals which is with the discretion of the installer, meaning less loose connections.
Absolutely.
Sooner everything has Wago connectors or similar the better. Sockets, switches and lights. Everything looks neater and better with the smaller 2mm sleeving as well. Sooner we use the same sort of T&E that they use in Ireland the better, no sleeving at all then. Just as a matter of interest do you know if it is possible to use it in the UK or does it not meet our specs? www.screwfix.ie/p/prysmian-n05vvh4-u-grey-2-5mm-twin-earth-cable-100m-drum/226hk
Came across a house wired in this a while back, guy was from ireland and had his sparks come over n wire the house. Perfectly fine as it meets the minimum requirements, as long as it's the correct cores csa/colour and material used it's not an issue.
Agree with you on this. The amount of time I spend faffing around sleeving things.
you can use it in the UK as long as it's sized for the amperage correctly iirc
Yes - give me a ceiling rose with Wago connectors and space for a Sonoff Mini!
These would be great when some electricians use cheap 1 mm twin and earth to stop damage caused by screws when over tightening such small cables.
100% I hate fitting ceiling roses. So much harder than it needs to be!
👍