People hate these Biblical truths because it attacks the heart of a man. It hurts deeply to know that it's GOD ALONE who saves. You can't come to faith on your own, it IS the gift of God.
The Gospel is God's salvation message provided to all men. Christ's words are spirit and life. Why accuse people who hear and believe God's Gospel of coming to faith on their own, when Scripture is what causes a man to believe - God's words, not man's. God has predestined that all who believe in Christ, will have eternal life, and those who do not believe the Gospel will be condemned. John 6:63-66 ... *_the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life._* [64] *_But there are some of you that believe not._* For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, ... [65] ... *_Therefore_* ... *_no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father._* [66] *_From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him._* 1 Peter 1:23 KJV *_Being born again,_* … *_by the word of God,_* … Ephesians 1:13 [13] *_In whom ye also trusted,_* after that *_ye heard … the gospel of your salvation_* *_after that ye believed,_* *_ye were sealed_* with that holy Spirit of promise, A) Hear the Gospel B) Believe the Gospel C( Sealed and saved.
Makes sense to me. I was as lost and as far away from God as anyone could be, and the fact that I found my way to Christ is nothing short of a miracle. I truly feel like God saved me. Thank you God.
To be born again or to become a Child of God is the miracle itself. When you were lost, you HEARD the Gospel. And you BELIEVED the Gospel (it means you did not reject it, you made a decision to accept it..also Romans 10:17). The moment you believed you became a child of God (John 1:12). The moment you believed you were sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). You came to faith because you HEARD the Gospel and you responded to it by accepting it. You made a decision for it. There is the freewill given to us. You exercised it and you made the right choice by believing the Gospel. Regeneration does not precede faith. That is simply a Calvinistic view and not what the Bible says. The invitation to be saved is...WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16).
@@jasont5300 Yes! I mean within the context of what is being discussed here. I heard the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and I believe it (john 3:16). The moment I believed I was sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). I am saved forever. I have found my way by God's grace (Ephesians 2:8,9).
@@dangaerlan6906 That is exactly right. Repentance and Faith both precede regeneration. Whomsoever will may come! God is calling all to repentance. “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,” Acts 17:30 NKJV “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” II Peter 3:9 NKJV
@@dangaerlan6906 RC said in the video you can plant the seed, you can water the seed, but God is the one who works the increase who saves. You may hear the Gospel your whole life and reject it over and over again and go to your grave rejecting it but that's the teaching of the Bible that unless God quickens you by the Holy Spirit you will never come to faith. Thus the Bible says we are the chosen of God, the elect. It's very clear not of the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of God. Also the whole seek God and choose him contradicts the apostle Paul who points out in romans 3 that no one seeks God so when no one seeks, no one will choose and if it's an issue of if Jesus death was a potential atonement not an actual atonement where the will of man is over the will of God where man can reject the grace given then that contradicts Jesus when he says all those the father gives me will never perish meaning they will come to him and believe all who God chooses. Or if God looks down the corridors of time to see who will choose him and thats how he chooses based on our response contradicts romans 3 where God would see no one is seeking or choosing him. It's aligning scripture with scripture. The Word is infallible and we should treat it as so, when our understanding contradicts scripture is when we abandon the idea we had and align with His Word.
RC Sproul’s mind is incredibly sharp. He has influenced not my beliefs per se, but the way I think about anything. His thought process in tackling issues is second to none of his peers.
TULIP Nonsense !...in fact, there is no biblical Regeneration prior to Baptism....(Titus 3:5, John 3:5).... Sproul didn't provide a single Biblical verse...supporting "his position" (his words) ...you know...I don't have any "Tough Bible Passages"...then again, I don't allow my theology to dictate its Bible Truths...rather, its clear Truths become my theology....
It is an internal change that takes place within us, through the power of His Spirit, before we can truly believe and trust in Him. We may be able to understand the message of the gospel in our own wisdom before He enters, but it is our spirit reborn when we can truly see the depths of His mercy upon us. And it is only with open eyes that we truly repent for we cannot truly understand the measurement of His sacrifice that leads us on a lifelong commitment to Him until He opens our eyes to His truth. That is the miracle of salvation. Those who have been saved have received the greatest miracle - Amazing Grace.
Added to that, the logical order of faith preceding being made alive in Ephesians 2, that is what determines what the definition of dead is. Not the other way around. The logical order proves that Paul is using the word dead metaphorically, not literally. We are metaphorically dead, meaning we are separated from the Lord, like the Prodigal Son was "dead" but was actually just separated from his father. We are separated from God relationally because of our trespasses and must put our faith, our trust, in God in order to be brought back in a relationship with Him, reconciled, and we do this by the means of faith.
My favorite quote from R.C. Sproul on how regeneration preceeds faith: "You will resist it as hard as you can. But God will overcome your resistance. When God chooses to save somebody, in his sovereignty, he saves them. Edwards called it ‘the holy rape of the soul.’ Some people are violently offended by that language. I think it’s the most graphic and descriptive term I can think of, of how I was redeemed.” Man does not have any free agency in the face of an aggressor like God! I love Reformed theology! I could never learn this stuff from just the Bible.
Ephesians 1:13 says you are sealed after you believe and not the other way around, and we know that being sealed by the holy spirit happens at the moment of spiritual birth. But for sure if you haven't been given the new heart and new birth from above it doesn't matter what order you believe in but what does matter is that Christ has changed your heart and given you new desires and you want to obey him and serve him rather than sin.
Are you suggesting that because the Spirit comes to indwell the believer AFTER he believes and is justified, that the Spirit does no work whatsoever in people prior to and during his conversion? That the Spirit is dormant and is waiting for a natural, graceless person to take the first step to believe, before He will do anything? Consider that If we as regenerate believers need the Spirit daily to believe, obey and persevere in the faith, how much more does the unbeliever need Him to understand and believe the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:12,14). The Biblical evidence is so overwhelming that the Spirit also works prior to belief (1 Thess 1:4,5) that this should not even be a debate in the church. The sinner hears and comes to Christ only because the Holy Spirit opens his ears, eyes and understanding to the gospel (Deut 29:4, 30:6; John 6:63-65). As in creation, the Spirit broods over us, so to speak, before He gives the birth to us. It is important that we do not limit the Spirit's work but understand that He has a full array of ministries: In fact, there are seven major distinct ministries of the Holy Spirit: Convicts unbelievers of sin, righteousness and judgment: John 16:8-11. Calls and Regenerates (causing us to believe): 1 Cor 1:24; John 1:13, 3:1-8, 6:63-65; Titus 3:5, I Peter 1:23-25; James 1:18. Indwells and baptizes the believer: I Corinthians 6:19; Romans 8:9; John 14:16; I Corinthians 12:13. Seals us: Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30. Imparts gifts: I Corinthians 12:7-11. Fills the believer: Ephesians 5:15-21; Galatians 5:16. Causes us to bear fruit: Galatians 5:22-23.- conforming us to the character of Jesus Christ. I would encourage you to also consider that you thank God for your conversion because you know your repenting and believing cannot be ascribed to your own wisdom, sound judgment, or good sense (even partly). Jesus Christ gets ALL the glory (1 Cor 1:20-31). Even the very humility you have to believe is a gift of grace... "for what do you have that you did not receive." Lastly, take the time to read Ephesians 1:13 in light of the first 12 verses in the chapter. Reading texts in isolation is a sure way to produce unsound theology. Read in context God predestined and adopted us as sons, according to the good pleasure of His will, not ours. Keep reading until Ephesians 2 and you'll see that man is in a state of spiritual deadness prior to regeneration. It seems to me that a person focused gratifying the cravings of the flesh would have no place for faith.
Tom W But he’s so wrong. Regeneration happens after faith.... Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) All that believed would receive the Spirit after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension.... Jhn 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Jhn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Jhn 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. The Holy Spirit is first given here.... Jhn 20: 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: So they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection as Jesus stated in John 7. That’s well after the disciples believed, and many others as well...... Jhn 2: 23 ¶ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. Luk 7: 50 ¶ And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Even after the resurrection, faith still preceded regeneration..... Eph 1: 13 ¶ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Just to clarify what regeneration is. It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.... Rom 8: 9 ¶ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Spiritual life happens after belief..... Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. The disciples hadn’t received this life before the resurrection of Christ..... Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. Peter hadn’t yet been converted..... Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Matt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.) God bless
mariosangermano When did the disciples “see the kingdom of God”? Acts 1: 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? They didn’t yet understand (or see) the kingdom at this point. They get it here.... Acts 2: 29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 ¶ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 ¶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. After Pentecost they were able to see the kingdom. That’s when regeneration took place. You’re misunderstanding the passages you cited. We can look at them if you like. Mar 7: 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Can you point out how this describes total inability to me? I’d like to start with your first passage but I’m not seeing how you can conclude that men are incapable of doing anything good in the sight of God from this passage. Thanks.
@@evanu6579 Do you believe that anyone can do enough “good” to earn Heaven? Just to be clear,I am not a Calvinist so my question is an honest and genuine one from an honest heart
@@nicholascarter6543 No. No one can be good enough to earn heaven. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith is the opposite of works or being “good enough”. You rely on the righteousness of another rather than your own goodness. God made it easy so we could do it. If the law was too difficult that man couldn’t attain to it, then why would He make another way that’s just as impossible? God bless brother. It’s not an easy task convincing people who are so devoted to a doctrine. It can definitely be exhausting :)
I had no intentions of seeking Christ never owned a Bible never went to church , in fact I believe born again Christians were the worst One day the Holy Spirit came upon me and let me know this is the son of God. I never looked back.
bob rei that is wonderful news! Praise the Lord for His mercy. My question to you is this... Do you now feel that you are being forced by the Holy Spirit to follow Him because He chose you? Or did you choose to follow once He revealed Himself to you? Or do you not know that He has given you no choice. Serious question. Im curious for anyone to answer this question. Thanks in advance.
God definitely intervenes and changes your heart, preparing you to receive the gospel. The word regeneration seems to confuse some people, thinking it's the same as salvation, which it is not.
killian bernal Regeneration happens after faith.... Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) All that believed would receive the Spirit after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension.... Jhn 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Jhn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Jhn 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. The Holy Spirit is first given here.... Jhn 20: 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: So they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection as Jesus stated in John 7. That’s well after the disciples believed, and many others as well...... Jhn 2: 23 ¶ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. Luk 7: 50 ¶ And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Even after the resurrection, faith still preceded regeneration..... Eph 1: 13 ¶ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Just to clarify what regeneration is. It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.... Rom 8: 9 ¶ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Spiritual life happens after belief..... Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. The disciples hadn’t received this life before the resurrection of Christ..... Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. Peter hadn’t yet been converted..... Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Matt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.)
Ray Jacobs That’s not very helpful if you don’t point out how I misused these passages. Please point out how the context changes the meaning in just a couple of them. That way you could edify me and anyone who reads this post. Thank you
@@evanu6579 -Just like your previous comment isn't helpful. Just an assertion on your part. What does it mean to be dead in sin? Is any human being able to raise themselves up by "their" faith and make themselves alive to God? Saving faith is from Jesus Christ who is the author (originator) and perfecter (finisher) of faith, NOT us! I will admit that sometimes it confuses me that in spite of what I just wrote, God still holds all people responsible for "rejecting" Christ. Romans chapter 9 helps my confusion. Later.
Ray Jacobs To be dead in sin means you’re separated from God. Jesus makes us alive by reconciling us to the Father. He does it if we repent and believe. Jesus is the author (the substance).... Heb 5: 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; And finisher of our faith.... 1Pe 1: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Paul is writing an occasional epistle to the Romans. The Jews and Gentiles weren't getting along. Once the Jews were allowed to return to Rome, they found their church to be quite different from when they left. Paul corrects their attitude towards the Gentiles. He directs his conversation towards the Jews for a while, then to the Gentiles...... Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, He then condemns their attitude in the remaining verses of this chapter. He continues his discussion Rom 3:1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 9 ¶ What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; He uses the phrase "we" and "Jews", speaking in the first person plural. Rom 4:1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? Abraham is the father of all who are in Christ, according to the promise, but not according to the flesh. That would be the Jews. Rom 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? The Jews know the law. (Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:) Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. The ones who have the firstfruits of the Spirit are the Jews.... Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Rom 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Jas 1:1 ¶ James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Back to Romans..... Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? "Us, Jews" is again in the first person plural. He switches his attention to the Gentiles here..... Rom 11:13 ¶ For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office Notice the direction he gives them..... Rom 14:1 ¶ Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. The Jews had trouble eating what was once "unclean". The Gentiles were to be careful not to offend. So the purpose of all of this, is that when Paul was speaking to the Jews, he quoted a lot more scripture and assumed they would know what he meant..... Rom 10: 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; This makes no sense without knowing this..... Deu 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Do you agree? This is important to understanding Romans 9. Later.
Sinners and the harmless deserve to live in two different worlds. For on earth, wealth is the power that controls and there is no gratitude to motivate compassion, pity or charity. While in heaven, gratitude is the power that controls, as there is no wealth to motivate greed.
It's by God's grace that we are saved. Also I would say that God sees our disposition and if we look for him, he will regenerate us. Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3 For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare[a] and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13 May God bless you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
“But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.” Romans 6:17 NKJV
Can RC sproul truly look and unbeliever in the eye and truly say to him in the light of his Calvinistic philosophy That Jesus loves him. I mean truly in his heart of hearts.
Todd Friel (a calvinist) did a CZcams video on his channel Wretched TV saying we should not tell people that God loves them unconditionally. He was commenting on what another well-known calvinist said. I believe it was RC Sproul. On the other hand, I've seen videos of Friel engaging in open air preaching and he doesn't say God loves you and wants to save you, but only if you are elect. His evangelistic preaching was decidedly not calvinistic.
@@juanitadudley4788 God does love everyone unconditionally .Yet to be excepted in his kingdom comes with conditions. We must believe on him . There are no conditions on God's love as it states in 1cor13 God is Love
Knowledge of God does not equal saving faith. Paul sets out that all men have a knowledge of God in Romans 1:16: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them," and yet not all are saved. Saving faith in the Biblical God (that includes Jesus) is one that can only be received by the opening of the eyes and renewal of heart (i.e. regeneration), which is wholly a work of the Spirit alone. Matthew 7:21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Jaidyn Weight you’re saying that ALL men can know God and are programed naturally to recognize the existence and even the character of God through creation, but cannot believe in Him? I know it is a work of the Holy Spirit but you’re contradicting yourself. Is like saying that a baby can see while he is born blind and he will be treated as a non blind child, even though he is blind, because he actually can see as any other kid. Is a contradiction in all senses! Remember that “flesh” is not a literal concept, it is a form to express the “tendency to desire our own satisfaction without God” and that tendency is not inherited but learned! If the first human sinned, he falls to a wicked version of himself and cannot set himself free so he will sin again at some point of his life, then his children will see him sin and will learn to sin and then this goes all forward until now! So everybody have sinned! God created us in His Image (moral beings) but we decided to seek “autonomy” from God and that’s when all got chaotic!
When you confuse seeing heaven with faith, and being dead in trespasses with being incapable of believing, and ignoring Judas who was numbered among the 12 and had his place in the ministry.
First of all tons of respect for RC. "Regeneration preceeding faith" does sound pious and has rhetorical value, but the gospel isn't about piety or rhetoric. We need to stick with the scriptures. "but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that _by believing you may have life_ in his name." John 20:31 ESV Apostle John is saying literally the exact opposite of R.C. God took the initiative by sending his son to be the savior of the world. We are responders to his gracious and merciful initiative. Neither the Eastern Orthodox nor the Roman Catholic have the "Regeneration Preceeding Faith" doctrine, nor do they have the "make a decision, mass evangelism, come forward to be born again" stuff (they have other problems). So there is something else going on, probably having more to do with "the evangelicals" loss of Lord's Day liturgical corporate worship, rather than due to a less pious sounding ordo salutis. Anyway, mad respect for RC and Ligonier Ministries.❤️
No he is not John wrote to believers who were already regenerated by the spirit then and now. So that you may believe means they WILL believe. You obviously do not believe and reject the scriptures and believe the opposite of what they say so you do not have to actually repent but say a prayer and offer nothing and sacrifice nothing like 99.9 percent of western hypocrites self styled christians totally in opposition to the grace of the cross given to clearly helpless depraved men in total darkness.
He talked about Martin Luther but Martin Luther taught that faith comes before the new birth. Scripture proves this - Ephesians 1:13b - "in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.". You have to believe in Christ first before you can receive the indwelling Spirit. The gospels prove this also...Peter made a confession of faith first-. "we believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God" - John 6:69, but he didn't receive the Spirit until after Christ's resurrection. The Word of God speaks for itself. I wish Christians would read the Bible more than they read theology books
ntanner747 Christ had not ascended back to heaven and God the Holy Spirit had not been sent at the time when Peter received knowledge of Christ’s deity from the Father
Your born again the moment you believe the truth..1 Peter 1 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. James 1 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Ray Jacobs. But didnt you read the scriptures that tito provided? The Spirits work on a man and regeneration are not synonymous. Please re-read those passages and also consider these words of Jesus... John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. The postion that spiritual life before or apart from belief on Jesus is in opposition to much scripture. Here is one...John 3:18 # He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Better to make a clear distinction between the Holy Spirits initial work in a mans heart and regeneration which occurs as an inevitable result of that work through faith. Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
@@henrybarrick7205Read Hebrews 12:2...over and over again. Saving faith is a gift of God's grace. You, no more caused your first, physical birth anymore that your spiritual birth. ALL praise, glory and honor go to God... none for us.
Ray Jacobs : Im not denying that faith is a gift of God. I am questioning the idea that the new birth or regeneration precede faith. I think it is more biblical to understand the initial workings of Gods Spirit on man as being before faith and for the purpose of producing faith. But the new birth is through faith. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith for sure. We would never hope in him apart from Him first working for and in us.
*1 Corinthians 2 : 14* But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
He managed to make something simple so complicated, ending up with the opposite of Scripture. I didn’t realise this is what reformed theology teaches, it’s quite astounding...
God's word is His breath! (see 2 Timothy 3:16) God's Word/Breath CREATED everything and SUSTAINS everything by His word and breath (Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14) The universe came forth at God's word. Lazarus came forth out of the tomb at God's word. And WE come forth (into spiritual life) at God's word!
If you look at all scripture related to faith, regeneration, the work of the spirit, works of faith, etc. - you clearly see something happens in a moment of realization and recognition of who and what Christ is that immediately brings His New Creation to our own spirit- (not the whole of us yet- not our flesh). Faith comes by the Word of God (John 1:1 & Ephesians 6:17), and changes our behavior- making these FaithWorks completely inseparably entwined. Both are driven by Grace and not our will. It is not of us but not apart from us and our experience in that moment of realization and recognition and His mind and will - already ours by grace, become fully ours as we work out our salvation in fear and trembling and submit our will in our life.
Greg, think about that part of your statement, "the moment of realization." Are you asserting that the " realization," can only happen if God makes it happen? God has the power to establish any plan He chooses. We non calvinists are claiming that God DID NOT, establish the plan and process of salvation that calvinists claim. If we were to separated each belief claim of calvinism, and study each, what we discover is a contradiction between the belief claims.
If regeneration must precede faith then why was it that King Agrippa had faith in what Paul said but didn't get saved? And why did Felix tremble at what Paul said unless he believed what Paul said and if he believed what Paul said then why didn't he become a Christian? Faith must always come before regeneration. And faith comes by hearing the word of God and being enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit.
@Ric McGuire You can be all of that and still lost. Just being convicted and enlightened by the Holy Spirit and believing doesn't make you a Christian.
@Ric McGuire Do you believe Felix was saved just because he believed. A person must be willing to serve the Lord also. Not just believe. They must also repent of their wicked ways. Many believe when they hear the Gospel and are convicted of their sins but aren't willing to give up their sinful ways and serve God.
@Ric McGuire Why don't you answer any of my questions? Explain Felix. Don't you believe where the Bible says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? It doesn't say whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord is doing so because they are already saved does it?
@Ric McGuire Why won't you answer my questions? Is it because you can't? A person must be enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit. They must believe the Gospel. They must have a desire to serve the Lord and choose to do so. They must call upon the name of the Lord. They must repent of their evil ways and ask for forgiveness. What part of this list do you disagree with which the Bible teaches? By the way, you asked me 2 questions before that. And I answered them. And now I've answered your 3rd question. Now why won't you answer my simple questions?
@Ric McGuire I believe I've already answered that question. Go back and read carefully and slowly all my comments. I can see now that you're not interested in answering any of my questions. Good bye.
You cannot have faith until the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and regenerates you to have faith. You are dead in your trespasses and sins before you are regenerated, meaning you cannot believe until the Holy Spirit makes you alive. Born again! God does the choosing. All we can choose is sin because of the fall of Adam. No one understands this until we are made alive thru Christ. I pray your mind and heart will be enlightened by the scriptures and teachings of God's word.
So you’re saying dead people can do something? How much did Lazarus help with his own resurrection? Is the carnal mind really at enmity against God, like the Bible says? If so, even if the lost could do anything towards believing they wouldn’t because they hate God. Go share your faith with the lost and see how they receive it. And you might want to bring some protection
@@mountainman78629 Rather than trying to draw logical conclusions based on the vague term of being "dead" spiritually, it would be better to let Scripture speak for itself, right? As Jesus said, "...that whosoever believes in him may have eternal life." Belief proceeds regeneration, otherwise you would have eternal life before belief. Nowhere does it say a spiritually dead person cannot repent and believe under the conviction of the Holy Spirit. That is a conclusion without scriptural support. Okay, God bless.
I have been a five point calvinist for about two years now, but man I love listening to Leighton Flowers.... He brings up some (seemingly) amazing points... But then i just watch Dr. White refute all of them. LOL. Soli Deo Gloria.
White doesn't refute. White doesn't even understand non-calvinism. It's amazing that a doctrine that is claimed to be so righteous creates so many arrogant individuals like White. I listened to a two and a half hour video of White crapping on non-calvinist. Saying "I unblocked them on twitter to write a message on their wall about how they said something wrong".
brother it's not simple that a loving God predetermined most people for damnation without them having the ability escape it. It's not pride It's how we disagree on interpretation. Pride is what sends everyone to hell according to Roman's 1 18. blessings
@@gwine2nine52 But you know as well as I that ever since Adam sinned we're all already destined to Hell unless we're Saved by the Grace of God. Election obviously means that God has selected a remnant of people for Himself which means He did not chose others. Scripture says that Jesus told His Apostles to "Remember, I chose you, you did not choose me." The Old and New Testament bears wittiness that The Lord has chosen some and not others all the time. The Lord of the Old Testament is the Same Lord of the New Testament. We know that GOD is Righteous, so His decisions are Righteous too. This same loving God your referring to decided to drown all people on Earth accept Noah and his Family. That's countless Millions of People. He's the same loving God who killed Hundreds of thousand of enemies of His chosen people , the Israelites. He's the same Loving God who caused thousands to be swallowed up when He opened the Earth. He's the God who drowned thousands of Egyptians who were pursuing his chosen people. I'm sure You get the picture. It's not uncommon for God to choose some and not Others if it serves His Purposes. The scripture tells us what His purpose is, which is to bring Glory to Himself. And why shouldn't He? He's the Creator of ALL things! He's Our Savior. He's our GOD. We have compassion on those don't believe. We preach the gospel to them because it's the power of God, and it is The Holy Spirit's job to convince them it's true, And that is HIS choice not ours.
@@randym.7238 yes we are all destined for hell and the only thing worse than a lost loved one going to hell is a loving God who didn't provide for all of them a way to heaven . Jesus also told his disciples in a parable that many are called and few are chosen and there is a reason most are not chosen. so it begs the question why did God choose to exterminate the world with a flood.. what does scripture say? was it because they weren't chosen?
@@gwine2nine52 Regarding the Flood, God destroyed the people because "their thoughts were continually evil". Even "birds, fish and things that creep along the Earth and beasts", had all been corrupted. All except Noah. Only God knows the Hearts and Minds of People and God decided that they should all be destroyed. It's certain that He had not chosen those people to obtain Mercy but did choose to show Mercy to Noah and his family. God's purpose of bringing a Savior into the World would come from Noah's blood line and no one else. The answer to your question is this; Those who God destroyed were chosen to be Objects of God's Wrath. Noah and his Family were chosen to be Objects of God's Mercy. God cleansed the World of Wickedness and at the same time He continued His plan to provide those who would believe in Jesus The Way to be cleansed of their Sins. This is why God chose to exterminate the World with the flood.
@@randym.7238 Is it reasonable that God would punish us for a choice we did not make (Adam's) and then damn us for a choice we were not even given the freedom to consider (the choice to have faith)?
The rich man in hell, in Luke 16, was dead in flesh and in trespasses and sins. And he did a lot of things. He lifted his eyes, asked for mercy, was burdened for his brother's who were going to hell. Evidently a spiritually dead man can do a lot of things. Including coming to Christ when drawn of God.
Joey, you're missing the point. A spiritual dead sinner CAN do much; in fact , the unregenerate sinner DOES DO much. He: 1) possesses the knowledge of his Creator, but suppresses this knowledge; 2) knows that his judgement is coming, but also suppresses this knowledge and wants others to join him in his evil deeds (Rom. 1:18-32); and, 3) has knowledge that God has a law, and that he stands condemned under that law (Rom. 2:14-16; 1:30-32). Yes, the spiritually dead sinner does do MUCH wickedness in their lifetime. But that's not what we're talking about when we say that the spiritually dead sinner can do nothing...it means, that they cannot do ANYTHING which is good and well-pleasing to God unless they are under the Lordship of Christ (believing in Him). Even the "good works" of the unregenerate are a disgusting, foul stench in the anthropomorphic "nostrils" of God. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
Exactly. The rich man tasted separation from the living water and had to wait for Jesus to pay the price. Jesus said "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me."
Take some soothing logic from Spurgeon.. If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and, bid him to belive in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then brining him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. C.H.Spurgeon Contradicting the teaching of "regeneration precedes faith"so popular among Calvinist today,Calvin even titled a chapter" Regeneration by faith"Institutes.
RC engaged in charming obfuscation, while not relying on scripture, and never answering directly. I listened to him answer a question about freewill, when he could have just answered plainly yes or no. He never actually answered the question.
Dead in sin. Dead:no longer alive, In:expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else. sin:an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
@@c.g.ryderii2405 being dead in sin would indicate that spiritual death is the result of sin and not that sin is the result of spiritual death. And that would coincide with Scripture that says that the wages of sin is death. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the wages of spiritual death is sin.
Salvation apart from faith? Really RC? Theire s no verse in the entire NT that say explicitly the regeneration precedes faith. Galatians 3:2 says expicitly the the spirit is received by faith, not faith by the spirit. Many other scriptures say the same.
"Galatians 3:2 says explicitly"? Not necessarily. Regeneration->Faith->Justification->Receive the indwelling and sealing Spirit. The Spirit made us alive together with Christ WHILE WE WERE DEAD in our trespasses (Eph 2: 5). If faith precedes regeneration, then faith does not really justify us. Do you see the logic? We are first made alive (regenerated) and then the faith we are required to have for our justification is now active precisely because we are made alive again. "no verse in the entire NT..."? Incorrect. R.C. made it very clear that Jesus and Nicodemus (Nic-at-Nite) already had this discussion in John 3. No one SEES or ENTERS the kingdom (i.e. becomes a believer, passes from death to life or darkness to light) UNTIL they are FIRST born again. Nevertheless, we do indeed urge others to believe, not to be born again (for only the Spirit brings dead people to life) [John 3: 5-8]. For flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit [John 3: 6]. This does not diminish the outward call of the gospel to the whole world which is to believe in order to be saved. Ultimately, we leave the secret counsel of God where it belongs-with God. God has not only predestined the end, but the means by which they come. We simply want to be faithful and obedient in our (planting) and leave the growth up to Him. Blessings...
@@bradwebb7955 Ephesians 2:5 KJV Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) From the way non-Calvinist see this verse: In Ephesians 2:5 Paul is equating "being made alive" to "being saved by Grace". So, made alive = saved by grace, correct? So how does one access that Grace, so as to be saved (or be made alive)? By faith. Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Romans 5:2 KJV By whom also we have access by faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. You seem to think "being made alive" = "having faith/being able to have faith". Paul, however seems to be saying "being made alive" = "being saved by grace".
To You first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless You, in turning away every one of You from your iniquities. But since He died in vein, repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, perhaps the thoughts of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that You are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquty. For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, for when they fall away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Paul to an open shame.
The real collision point is: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation]. I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation], for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation]. [Rom 1 : 16, 10 : 17, Gal 1 : 6-7]
Yes, it's unique to Reformed Theology, that's what makes it different from Christianity, which believes what Jesus taught: 💥Jn5:40 "..yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life" We don't get life (be born-again) in order to go to Jesus, we go to Jesus in order to have life. 💥John20:30 "but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that in believing you may have life in His name" We believe in the Son so that we may have Life. Wonder what's so confusing for RC 🤷♂️❗
@@Lena.9 Lazarus was raised from his dead state to prove the Messiah. ⭐John 11 14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead. 15) I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe. Nevertheless, let’s go to him.” 40) Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believed, you would see God’s glory?” Infact v40 shows that IF WE BELIEVE we will see God's glory. It's not after we receive God's glorious regeneration that we believe, which is the false teaching in Calvinism.
@@T.Ravikumar Not addressing the topic. V40: did Lazarus believe and then brought to life or not? And what’s ‘glorious regeneration’…? According to Romans 8:30 glorification comes after justification. And we are justified by faith, so yes if we believe we will see Gods glory. Also justification by faith comes after being called. And the instance we are called through the Word of God we are regenerated (1 Peter 1:23; John 6:63).
@@T.Ravikumar Right, the Messiah came to just show Himself to be the Messiah. Or.. did He had a greater purpose and message, which was related to salvation and confirmed by the miracles? The healing of the paralyzed man is a beautiful example of somebody who saw past the miracles towards the real goal of Jesus’ ministry. That man and his friends came to find salvation, forgiveness of sins in the first place. And to confirm he is forgiven Jesus also healed him. We all need to be like that man when reading about Jesus’ work. And not be like the multitudes who saw the miracles but not the signs (John 6:26). Signs point us towards something greater. In the miracle of the resurrection of Lazarus we find the sign in John 11:25-26. We all still die physically, so Jesus’ words are pointing to spiritual life and death. And that, my friend, has everything to do with salvation.
And yet the Bible says this. Did God get it wrong? Maybe God should have consulted with some Calvinists. Heb. 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Galatians 3:2 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?" Galatians 3:5 "Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?"
Sproul highlights two possibilities - Whether man can believe out of the flesh or whether God has to change that heart before we believe. In actual fact, both of these possibilities are incorrect. It is true that fallen man cannot of his own initiative choose to be reconciled to God and it is certainly not true that God changes the heart of just a few of His fallen creation in order that they only can believe. Jesus said that when He is lifted up He will draw all men to Himself. This is done through the preaching of the Gospel which is the power of God unto Salvation. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement. To say that the unconverted must first be regenerated before they can place their faith in Christ is an attack on the sufficiency of the Gospel - the Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation and does not require additional assistance other than the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit. Calvinists misrepresent the position of non-Calvinists when they attempt to show that there are only two options, neither of which non-Calvinists support.
Greg Jay, you are missing the entire point of contention. The Gospel proclaimed is NOT the ONLY thing that MUST happen in the fallen sinner who hears it. If you are saying that fallen man possesses 'the power of contrary choice' (the fallacious definition synergists give to the concept of 'human libertarian free will', which is NOT the biblical definition of this concept) then you must say it, rather than just assume it. If you are saying that it is man's 'power of contrary choice' which makes efficacious the Holy Spirit's work in the salvation of any wretched sinner, the please state this emphatically. Does the Holy Spirit sometimes FAIL in His ministry? Is His ministerial work dependent upon the sinner's 'power of contrary choice'? Please explain. The fact is, when God GRACES a sinner, via the preaching of the Gospel, that sinner BELIEVES AS A RESULT. God also HARDENS other sinners when they hear that same Gospel, because God has reserved them for the Judgement. God hardened Pharaoh; God Graced Moses...etc. Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
Ryan Gallmeier. But Jay said that the convicting work of the Holy Spirit is also neccesary. Is it possible that some are confounding the initial work of the Spirit with full blown regeneration?
@@henrybarrick7205 are you reading the same response from Greg Jay that I am? The question is: when the Holy Spirit works on the heart/mind of a spiritually dead sinner via the gospel proclamation, does that sinner still retain the 'right of refusal' to believe the gospel? Are you assuming the synergistic definition of 'free will' as 'the power of contrary choice'? No need to muddy the waters with more confusion than is already existent in what professes to be "Christianity" today. We have enough of that. Be clear in your presentation/answer or you will continue to be a part of the problem, rather than attempting to find a solution.
Ryan Gallmeier sorry if I made it confusing. Im new to you tube commenting and may not have seen the original question but thanks for bringing me up to speed. "The question is: when the Holy Spirit works on the heart/mind of a spiritually dead sinner via the gospel proclamation, does that sinner still retain the 'right of refusal' to believe the gospel? My response: 'right of refusal' doesnt make sense to me. Man accepts or rejects based upon his desires. Fallen man has fallen desires and will always reject. Man in his fallen state does not seek after God(Romans 3:11) And when presented with the gospel, man in his fallen state will still not seek after God(John6:44) The other question... "Are you assuming the synergistic definition of 'free will' as 'the power of contrary choice'? No. My whole purpose for posting a few comments was to stress the importance of making the distinction between regeneration and the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith. I believe that the bible plainly reveals God's sovereignty in man's salvation but that he does it through numerous means(all of which are under his control). "Regeneration before faith", R.c's topic in the video, is to simple a term and can lead to dangerous conclusions such as being saved without faith.
@@henrybarrick7205 "My whole purpose for posting a few comments was to stress the importance of making the distinction between regeneration and the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith." What do you mean by "the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith"? This is what needs clarification. *And by "man" is assume you mean, 'a wretched, fallen, unclean, unholy, foul stench in the nostrils of God, sinner"..
Faith is a Question Who. It's NOT a question of what. The confusion is the misunderstanding of the word Faith, not rebirth or regeneration. The First step is the initiative of The Father that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, The Messiah. Again, faith is a question Who. We have to KNOW - INTIMACY - first the person, the object of our faith. Even Saul thought he knew the Lord and went back asking the very basic question, "Who are you, Lord?" (Acts 9:5). Jesus replied, You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being. - Matthew 16:17
He completely misrepresents Jesus' comment to Nicodemas. John3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”(ESV) That says nothing about when we receive Jesus. It only presents being born again as the precursor for entering into the kingdom of God.
For the UNMERITED GIFT or the GRACE of YAHWEH to be given, it does NOT matter if the SINNER is the WORSE kind like Paul or the occasional small time thief! Because YAHWEH's GRACE is UNCONDITIONAL, therefore, YAHWEH can give His GRACE to whosoever He chooses to give - regardless! And for the SINNER to be ACCEPTABLE to YAHWEH, the next step is for the HOLY SPIRIT of YAHWEH to convict the sinner of his sins and lead him/her to REPENTANCE. Genuine repentance follows and the sinner becomes BORN AGAIN or his/her DEAD spirit becomes REGENERATED (spiritually made ALIVE in the Spirit of YAHWEH). FAITH follows thereafter through the learning of the WORD of YAHWEH as FAITH comes by HEARING and HEARIN of the Word of YAHWEH, the SCRIPTURES! What follows afterwards is JUSTIFICATION, SANCTIFICATION and eventually GLORIFICATION when the SAVED sinner (Born Again Christian) comes to the Kingdom of YAHWEH! That I think is the WAY of SALVATION from GRACE to GLORIFICATION of the SAVED sinner! HalleluYAH. I could be entirely "wrong" or in "error" as I do NOT profess to be a theologian but just a Bible student.
I think the problem is that Calvinists have a different definition of the word faith. They think faith is related to works, or something we DO continually, so when someone says that salvation is received through faith, they immediately reject it since they believe salvation can't be earned. They're correct in believing that salvation cannot be earned, but having faith is NOT a work in any way. Having faith in Christ as savior is NOT "earning" salvation, it's only accepting God's free gift of salvation.
You wrote: "I think the problem is that Calvinists have a different definition of the word faith." Nope. Calvinists go to the BIBLE for their definitions (unlike synergists, who don't know how to define human free will properly). Faith: mental acquiescence to understood propositions. Saving Faith: mental acquiescence to the Gospel proclamation (propositions/assertions) concerning the Person and work(s) of Jesus Christ. Faith includes: 1) knowledge/understanding of propositions; and, 2) assent that the understood propositions are in fact TRUE (and not false). That's how the BIBLE defines "faith". Questions? Let me know. *Soli Deo Gloria*
Calvin redefined a lot of terms when he created the doctrines of disgrace. He redefined election as selection and predestined as predetermined as well as others. 2 Peter chapter 2 warns us of false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies. What better way to do that than the subtle redefinition of important components of the Gospel in order to create chaos.
The following 2 verses prove Calvinism is false. Read them slowly and carefully: “you were also RAISED WITH HIM **THROUGH** **FAITH** in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the **uncircumcision** of your flesh, He MADE YOU ALIVE together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings,” Colossians 2:12-13 These verses say 4 things: 1 FAITH precedes being raised to LIFE from the dead 2 This happens while we are dead in our sins and when we are ungodly. 3 This happens before God spiritually circumcises us and frees us from our bondage to the flesh and sin. 4 This says/means: ungodly humans - who are spiritually dead in their sins - and who are uncircumcised and are thus still in bondage to their flesh/sin CAN HAVE FAITH. People dead in their sins HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE FAITH.
It's true you must born again but the way you become born again is by believing the gospel first. for the gospel of christ is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that believes that's why Jesus was explaining it to Nicodemus if it's like this character said Jesus wouldn't have had to explain it think people let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged
If the Father chooses a man for salvation, regenerates (saves) him, in order to allow him to believe Christ died for his sins - that puts the Father at complete odds with the Son: John 14:6 NASB95 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the -Father- Son but through -Me- the Father.
I agree with the logic, however the first thing that happens after hearing the gospel (Romans 10:17) is not regeneration, but conviction (Strongs 1650 & 1651). This is the initial point of faith (Hebrews 11:1). Immediately after that is regeneration. It happens during the gift of faith, not before. Faith itself is a gift. I miss RC Sproul.
Except faith isn't a gift. "For it is by grace [masculine] you have been saved [masculine], through faith [feminine]-and this [gender neutral, singular] is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast". "This" can only refer to the whole process of salvation by grace through faith as it isn't feminine or plural. It is just 100% wrong to say faith is a gift.
@@huntsman528 I do not get my theology from Calvin. This is what I believe scripture clearly teaches. I'm sure your a good Christian. We will just have to disagree on this one.
How does the idea of life before faith square with the words of Christ? John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. I have been forced by scripture to conclude that "regeneration before faith" is not accurate terminology. Spiritual depravity is scriptural therefore an interventive act of God is required in order for one to excercise faith. However, the bible doesnt attribute spiritual life, the new birth or regeneration solely to the immediate work of the Holy Spirit. While it is no doubt necessary that the Spirit does work, actual spiritual "life" does not occur until the heart turns to Jesus. No exceptions(see quotation above). Some may see this as simantics but I believe that it is important to see this in a very concise manner. If not, you may, on the one hand be taking a step towards the damnable idea that some un-believers are regenerated and saved(some "primitive" baptists) or on the other hand taking a step towards the damnable idea that believers believed on thier own(church of Christ denomination). I agree with at least part of one of the other comments on this video..."be careful". Is it irresistable? My opinion: from Gods will and perspective no. From ours ,sometimes yes. Believe on Him and thank Him for your faith and His working in you for His glory!
Man has been made in the image of God in order that he might seek God. He has the ability to seek God. That seeking God is not regeneration. The seeker hears the Gospel, believes, and then is baptized, being then regenerated, born of water and the Spirit. The Spirit of God strives with man to encourage him to seek God, to lead him to believe, but does not regenerate him until he believes and is baptized. Infants have the advantage of being regenerated in baptism, so that they have infused faith and thereafter are able to live according to the Spirit, or to fall away into carnality and sin.
It never says man is made in the image of God to seek God you liar God made man in His image when when he was WITH God. Your adding to scripture just to justify rejecting scripture
@@anselman3156 im not reading anything from anyone as crazy and deceived as.a loony cult imbecile like you hahahaha Adolf hitler was made in gods image hahahahaha Senseless brute beast
If we tighten it even more, the conviction (Hebrews 11:1) occurs first. Which produces sorrow then produces repentance. This is of course initiated by God. Faith based on conviction by God is NOT our own work. Faith without the conviction is ones own work. 🤓
Seems those that don't quite understand reformed theology, are the ones that want to take some credit for their salvation. Yet those of us who understand reformed theology (biblical theology) give God the glory in everything.
Personally i have no problems with this part of the doctrine, that it is God who pulls us out of the world. The problem lies in other issues like that somehow it is the goodness of God to pick and choose a tiny fraction of human beings out of torments of fire and let most end down there for eternity. This is the worst injustice, the worst partiality you can imagine.
@@nikokapanen82 I have heard your argument over and over " it's not fair" and I'm sure you've heard the rebuttal " why should God show Mercy on any of us?" We are not the center of the universe.
@@A-t-r-u-s If God can show mercy on some, He can show mercy on all. That is just and fair. Picking a tiny part of people and leaving the rest burning has nothing to do with fairness. The real problem with all this is the eternity of torment. That is the unfair part because endless suffering has nothing to do with justice, mercy or love. I am convinced by the revelation of God himself that the wrath of God is not some useless force which wont accomplish anything good, rather it is a purifying force, a humbling down force (Ez 24:13) which will burn all pride and rebellion out from the sinners and when that will be done, when all pride is gone, all sin will disappear because all sin is based on pride. When all sin will disappear, God will calm down because there wont be anything to keep Him angry anymore. Eventually God will become all in all as Paul states in corinthians.
@@nikokapanen82 There are many deeper issues with your theology that will exhasperate me in conversation. I would conclude though, you are a Universalist?
@@A-t-r-u-s I dont like to call myself a universalist, because what i heard universalists believe that all will be saved. Saved from what? From Gods wrath? I dont believe that, i believe most wont be saved from the coming wrath, that only a tiny bit will be saved. Yet i do most definitely believe that God did not fall into an eternal condition of wrath. He has His wrath being collected right now to be released upon all the sinners in the end times and that wrath will burn all the filth, all the pride out of them till the last atom. That will make all sin disappear and that will make God to calm down and take control over the whole universe. So i do believe in a full scale restoration which will be accomplished by God himself.
“buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were RAISED WITH HIM THROUGH FAITH in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,” Colossians 2:12-13 A lie from hell. Completely absent from Church history until Calvin. Calvinism makes God the author of sin. He literally WILLS SIN.
If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and, bid him to belive in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then brining him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. C.H.Spurgeon Contradicting the teaching of "regeneration precedes faith"so popular among Calvinist today,Calvin even titled a chapter" Regeneration by faith"Institutes.
@@iacoponefurio1915 This is a typical ad hominem attack. He is wrong because he is illogical. If you need A to get B, indisputably A needs to precede B in time. And not only he is illogical, but he also is not based on the Bible which teaches with total clarity that regeneration precedes faith. One example: 1 John 5:1 I love RC Sproul, but he was wrong on this.
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, ye might have life through His name." --John 20:31 "...having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." --Colossians 2:12 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." --Ephesians 1:13-14 THESE SCRIPTURES show the ORDER of things-- belief, then life. Belief, then raised to life. Belief, then sealed with the Spirit.
Those who agree with RC Sproul that Regeneration precedes faith, Can you please give a verse that says so? To be regenerated or to born again means to be saved because you have passed from death unto life. And the procedure to be born again, you must come to Jesus and believe the gospel, So, how can you believe the gospel if you don't have faith? Mark 16 :16 (KJV) ''He that '''''BELIEVETH''''' and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.'' John 1:12 (KJV) ''But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that '''''BELIEVE''''' on his name:'' John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever '''''BELIEVETH''''' in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. You see there are several verses to prove that Sproul is wrong.....Sproul uses human logic and not Scriptures to prove His point.... The Elect of God are the true Children of God by heredity from the foundation of the world...And they have faith which they inherit from the character of God, After the fall of Adam and Eve they inherited the sinful nature of Adam and they died Spiritually, But their faith did not totally vanished.... Luke 17:5 (KJV) ''And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our FAITH You see the apostles knew that the have faith before they were regenerated and asked Jesus to increase their faith.... The unregenerated Elect have enough faith to believe for salvation but after they are regenerated they will grow Spiritually and . their FAITH increases....
I can understand wanting to have a procedure as I am an engineer. I may say regeneration precedes faith but I struggle to not say that Gods regeneration births a faith in me. So I see them not necessarily one happens and then the other happens at a future date but they happen in my mind instantaneously together; but without regeneration the true saving faith won’t be present. Mark 16:16 says that either men believe or not believe. Jesus told the disciples that if a man believes and is baptized he will be saved. What type baptism is he talking about? Did they understand it to be a water baptism or Christ’s baptism of the believer? He said that accompanying signs would show that they were believers. They were being shown the weakness of anything they could do on earth through even a water baptism but more of what Christ was going to do powerfully through them. Make believers even through these hard-hearted, unbelieving-in-what-they-were-hearing-men. So they were being told the procedure. Preach the gospel to all, baptize those who say they believe and look for particular signs of these believers. The others are not believers. We should all call men to believe in Christ, but did they think that man would believe without God regenerating to make them believe or have faith? Probably not. John 1:11-13 is even clearer of regeneration preceding faith as you hear that certain ones receive and others don’t. The ones who receive were given power by God to believe and get a birth from God and not out of his own will or others wills. I am wondering if you read that God gave them power to either then believe or not, but this isn’t understanding that some already received or not received and of those who received God gave them the power to be born by God to believe in Christ. Some receive the gospel some don’t (not just via words but spiritual ears hearing the gospel). Receive what? Just the power to either believe or not? That is a bad understanding of what is being said about God giving power to believe because he has born them of God to believe in Christ. Not just get them to a free will choice point. Now John 3 is so rich with regeneration preceding faith that I wish I could just get you to stop focusing on the word believe that you have capitalized and put in double quotations and focus on the one whom we are told to believe in. Starting at the beginning of John 3 and a smart leader Nicodemus (way smarter than you and me) didn’t even understand what Jesus was telling him about being reborn to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus was showing his Faith was wrongly placed in his works and not on Christ. How could he stop misplacing his faith? Jesus told him that it was not of man but of the water and the Spirit of God to blow into man to be born of the Spirit. This irked Nicodemus and all us men, but he answers us all in Romans 9:20 by saying who are you to talk back to God. I always like to ask people here that do we trust God to do right with me personally? This may point to a lack of trust in God and show us a faith in ourselves and our free will more. Should make us all stop and think is my faith misplaced? If it be misplaced we need to get on our knees now and pray to the only one who can fix our misplaced faith in myself. I know you asked “how can you believe the gospel if you don’t have faith?” Both of us believe you can’t believe the gospel if you don’t have faith. But how will one believe if he doesn’t receive it from God such as John 3:27 is getting at? You said that man’s faith didn’t totally vanish after the fall. You are right. They had faith in something other than God after the fall wouldn’t you say? Same as us. Our faith is in the wrong thing. It is misplaced because of our sinful nature. We are a slave to the wrong thing. John 8:33 ish and around there shows our way of thinking is similar to these Jews. They didn’t even realize they were not free. But Jesus tells them that when Jesus sets you free you are free indeed. Your last part makes it sound like the unregenerate elect have something in them different from others prior to salvation. I don’t think this is biblical. Unless you can actually prove it through scriptures rightly interpreted, but I would push back probably in your interpretation as many verses say we were just like the rest of mankind but God showed mercy to us. I don’t mean these words as anything other than love for a fellow seeker of God to ensure both of us rightly divide the word of God. I may be wrong about things and I want to lay my desires down to be selfishly right and learn rightly from God and others that know God so feel free to tell me where I’m mistaken. I won’t (I hope) get angered as I hope you also don’t at what I am saying. I think RC is right in that regeneration precedes faith not only from the same scriptures you think teach faith precedes regeneration but also because my experience of salvation personally makes me believe it. Luke 17:5-6 is Jesus telling the disciples that God will provide the faith they will need to do the things he planned for them when He commands it to be done. Down through verse 10 is explaining that. Christ will command it and they will do it not because of their faith but because of their faith in the one who is doing it. They are just Christ’s servants performing what Christ desires them to do. Sorry this was so long. But I enjoyed going through these areas of scripture and exegeting them for you, me, and others who read this. God bless.
Curiously you quoted John 3:16. But what was Jesus talking about from verse 1 in the lead up to verse 16. The passage talks about what happens first leading to "whosoever believes."
@@boughtwithaprice9121, You made a very long reply... But lots of none sense... You said: ''''Did they understand it to be a water baptism or Christ’s baptism of the believer?''''=>>> How can the disciples of Jesus perform Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit... Please use a little bit of common sense...=>>> You also said: '''''So they were being told the procedure. Preach the gospel to all, baptize those who say they believe and look for particular signs of these believers.''''' .... Is what you said is really the procedure given to them by Jesus??? ... Jesus told them to preach the gospel and baptized those who believe... Of course they were the servant of God... They were anointed with Spiritual discernment to know who really believed....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo "'Most assuredly I say to you, UNLESS one is BORN AGAIN he CANNOT SEE the kingdom of God.' Nicodemus said to Him, 'HOW can a man be born when he is old?' Can he enter a second time in his mother's womb and be born?' Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, UNLESS one is BORN of WATER and the SPIRIT, he CANNOT ENTER the kingdom of God of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and the which is BORN of SPIRIT is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is goes. SO is EVERYONE who is BORN of the SPIRIT.' (John 3:3-8 NKJV). According to Jesus we're born of water and the Spirit. Notice that Christ does not mention faith as the reason for being born again. He tells Nicodemus how one is born again and ties the whole spiritual experience to water (i.e. God's word) and the Holy Spirit only. There's no mention of faith causing being born again. But we know faith is as a result of being born again because Jesus said, "Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." This "seeing" and "entering" of the kingdom of God is what faith is all about and only occurs as a result of being born again. One must first be born again in order to see (i.e. understand) and enter the kingdom of God. In order to believe we must first understand or see whatever it is we're believing. Therefore, RC is right: regeneration precedes faith.
Nonsense !...in fact, there is no biblical Regeneration prior to Baptism....(Titus 3:5, John 3:5).... Sproul didn't provide a single Biblical verse...supporting "his position"
So dude is saying you can be born again without having faith?!? Nonsense. It is THROUGH faith that we are redeemed, not before faith. God gives the gift of salvation unconditionally, but surely man is under the condition of having faith in order to receive said gift.
The fact that you are calling Pastor RC Sproul “so dude” is already saying a lot about you. I would rather suggest you point to scripture that says something different or explain why the scriptures he referenced says something different.
@vdmerwejo I already did and said it's through faith we are saved. No where in Scripture will you find through regeneration you are saved. No faith = no salvation. You are not brought to life to have faith to be brought to life again.
Regeneration is the new birth and comes by faith. That's what the Bible teaches. Regenerated (Reborn).. YOUR faith (absolute trust in Christ) has made you whole. NOT...I made you whole so you could have faith.
According to the bible, a person is regenerated and declared righteous WHEN he believes. So how can a person be regenerated before he believes? Not possible. False teachings like this is what happens when the bible is twisted to fit a man-made false theology like Calvinism
That's an excellent question. The key term you use here is "before." Both Calvinists and Arminians agree that one cannot be regenerate without saving faith. Both agree that these are gifts from God. However, the word PRECEDE here does not mean "before" in a chronological sense since you cannot have one without the other. It is not as though you are regenerate on August 15th and then believed on December 1st. No, you were born again and had saving faith at one time. It is not a chronological order. The video explains this. RC Sproul says it is "logical not temporal." The order of salvation speaks instead of causality. Calvinists insist that you must be regenerate in order (to cause) to believe because if our own faith caused regeneration, this would be a regeneration through a mental assent -- or a good work. Instead we say that God sovereignly regenerates the sinner and faith PROCEEDS from the born-again experience.
@@JohnRogers-fj2if ok so then I guess where we are at odds is to what extent God grants a person saving faith and why. I believe we have a free will, otherwise God would have forced us to sin and choose evil. We chose to sin on our own. As a result, God gave us a second chance (Christ) to choose Him or to choose evil. My question would be, what influences God's decision to give saving faith to one person and not another? I believe we cannot come to faith without God's intervention in our lives drawing us to him, but to claim that God chooses to give faith to some and chooses others to reject him with no reason behind it? I don't see that in the scriptures. Besides, it is not faith that saves us, it is the object of our faith that saves us which is Christ. Faith is only how we are instructed by God to receive this salvation as long as it is in Christ alone. If someone gifts me a large sum of money and I accept it, does that mean I earned that money? Of course not. I did nothing at all to earn it, I only received it as a gift... but I also have the option to reject it. "Saving faith" is simply trusting that Christ did all the work necessary to save us. John 6:28: then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
The idea of "regeneration preceding faith" does more than just fly in the face of the history of modern evangelism. It flies in the face of clear scripture. Believe me when I say that modern evangelism has its problems: it certainly does have problems, but putting faith before regeneration is not one of them.
You cannot have faith unless your being regenerated by the Holy Spirit because faith is one of the fruit of the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit comes first to bring you to faith in Christ.
@@Beth-eb7nu Search the Scripture. There isn't a single verse that says that. There are however lots of places in the bible where faith is prerequisite to salvation.
Before I knew about Calvinism & Armenianism I unknowingly held an Armenian view until I was shown about the two trains of thought . I've now changed to Calvinism it was hard at first but the more I thought about it the more it made sense to me. I don't have it makes a difference to your walk with God which doctrine you believe overall as long as you love the Lord with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself.
@Sheep Dog We can talk about philosophy if you really want to, but I'd rather talk about Scripture. What verse can a Calvinist quote that SPECIFICALLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares they are elect? My turn as a Bibleist--"Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I qualify as a whosoever. I believe. I have everlasting life. You see, my faith is in Jesus as revealed in scripture. A Calvinist has faith in election. How does a Calvinist KNOW they are elect? By man-centered feelings and good works. tuliP. They Persevere in good works therefore they think they must be saved. How does a Calvinist know if their good works are good enough? Sounds like man taking credit for his salvation instead of trusting God and the Scripture.
@Sheep Dog friend, I hope you carefully consider my question. How can a Calvinist be 100% sure they are elect. As for me, I know election is mainly Israel, specifically Jesus. Sometimes angels, rarely church age Christians. Can you explain the election of angels? I hope you diligently search the Scriptures and it us fruitful. Test what Augustine, Sproul, Washer, White, and MacArthur are teaching you.
Ephesians 1:13 KJV In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard* the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *AFTER* that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Romans 5:2 KJV By whom also we have access *by faith* INTO *this grace* wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Ephesians 2:8 KJV For by grace are ye saved *THROUGH* faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Titus 3:5 KJV Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, [[Saved us? HOW?]] ⏬ *by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost* ; So to summarize: HEAR the Gospel > BELIEVE the Gospel > Gain access to GRACE through that belief > SAVED *by* the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
it is not only illogical, it is anti-Scripture. I absolutely find it difficult to believe that so many people believe this drivel and heresy. He makes it up. I would be literally afraid to add to God's Holy Word like he does, or did since he's passed. There is not one instance in the Scripture. However, the Holy Ghost has said, Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. You repent first, then believe. Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Acts 2:34-39. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Through faith. The gift is Salvation, not the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word. Leighton Flowers has several videos on this. And Mr. Flowers is much nicer than I am. And again, to believe this you must believe that God sends babies who are not elect to hell. Because they are morally dead and can't believe. Therefore they are in hell now according to his false doctrine.
RC doesn’t realize that he inadvertently removed Christ from the salvation equation. Christ comes after salvation in his system. To be generous to our reformed people, I do think they are trying to highlight that Gods Spirit is the driving force behind all salvation, and with that, technically I agree. If God hadn’t made the first move, I’d have no hope. But since He did, now it’s my responsibility to respond and not harden my heart
Christ must be revealed in your heart by God.(2Cor.4:6). You believe God! NOT ABOUT GOD. Abraham believed God...Rom.4:3 See also Matt.16:17,Gal.1:15,16
This is the one doctrine of those that hold reformed theology that believers will automatically get angry about based on their emotions and the way they've been traditionally taught in scripture. They truly believe Romans 10:9-10 but think that salvation automatically equates to being born again once you believe. The thinking goes like this; You hear the gospel and believe in Christ's death and resurrection based on your own reasoning/will, then God makes you spiritually born again once you're saved. At this point, the logical question is, Were you regenerated when you made the choice to believe Christ, and the answer is no. This means that you've trusted Christ in faith based on your will in your sinful nature. This is often referred to as being "in the flesh." Romans 8:5-8 says, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh can't please God." These verses speak of those "in the flesh" who have a carnal mind that is actually of death, that is hostile against God, and is not subject to the law of God. For these reasons, the person in the flesh can't please God at all. And many will say this verse is talking about the struggling Christian who may act out in the flesh, but Romans 8:9 begins with the conjunction "But" and then says "Ye (this pronoun speaks of believers) are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit." The contrast is made to show believers and unbelievers. Unbelievers can't please God by anything derived from their carnal mind, which is hostile against God. And since Hebrews 11:6 tells us it is impossible to please God without faith, then how can we please God with faith that is derived from a carnal mind, which Romans 8:8 says anyone in the flesh (due to this mind) can't please God. We would need a new heart and a new life from being dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). Notice Titus 3:5 says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." Notice our salvation is by washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit? It is by God's mercy (which lines up with Romans 9:18). Again, the objection would be that we believe first, then we are regenerated. But any fleshly decision to believe would be by our own will to bring regeneration flies in the face of Romans 8:5-8 and John 1:12-13, which says, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Notice that we do "receive" and "believe," but this rebirth can't be initiated by our "decision" because the very next verse says we are born not of the will of flesh and man. We can't say we trusted in Christ of our own will and then He made me born again because then our regeneration can only happen by the will of man. It makes John 1:13 a lie. Finally, for all those that quote verses that say God died for all men or is the Savior of all men, you have to have two interpretations. The first is, all means every single person. The second means, all men without distinction. If it is the first, then taking those verses on face value, it means all are saved. If the second, then it means God saves all types of people no matter their status, language, gender, or cultural background. The first means all without exception, which means all would be saved. Yet that flies in the face of people being judged to eternal damnation (Revelation 20:11-15). And if it means it is a possible salvation, that adds the "possible" to the "died for all." Taken at face value in the first example, "all men" or "all" would mean "all," which means all would be saved. You can't say "all men are saved unless they don't choose Christ by their fleshly reasoning then they go to hell" because then Christ paid the price for everyone's sin, even the sin of unbelief, which means Christ took the wrath for them on the cross then God poured His wrath on them again after they died (Hebrews 9:27). So we either have a universal atonement or a possible atonement based on the decision of sinful man or we have God moving in a way that no one can tell when it comes and goes to bring someone born of the Spirit (John 3:8) so that they are given the ability to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. In fact, repentance is granted/given by God (Acts 5:31, 11:18, and 2 Timothy 2:25). If we don't think God is the God of salvation from beginning to end, then our "participation" to have God save us based on our own "decision" would make the ones who believe smarter and more aware in their reasoning then those that don't. This is the reason Ephesians 2:8-9 says it is all a gift of God (salvation by grace through faith), not of any works of man or we would boast. I know this doctrine is hard to swallow (I rejected it as well), but careful study of scripture shows the opposite has much more problems; it elevates the decision of man and takes away attributes of God, which means God is no longer God.
Eric Smith Wrong again fiend. Paul speaks of when he was first introduced to the law.... Rom 7: 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. He then speaks of himself whilst being under the law of sin and death..... Rom 7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 ¶ I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. He then speaks of how Christ set him free from the law of sin and death..... Rom 8: 1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. He then goes on to say how no one can please God through the law whilst in the flesh...... Rom 8: 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is 👉🏻not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.👈🏻 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. You have to read it in its context friend. God bless
@@evanu6579 We've already had numerous back and forth about many of these scriptures. I've taken the time to show through scripture why these verses say what they say. I understand you disagree, but you haven't yet shown me a valid interpretation of many of these verses. I check everything against scripture (Acts 17:11, 2 Timothy 2:15) and I prayerfully look at all in context. For instance, your Romans 8:1-8 verses neglect to to take in account 8:9 which says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This whole verse gives the contrast based on the conjunction "but." After the "but" you have the truth that "ye" (this pronoun for believers addressed in the epistle and to us today) "are not in the flesh" as compared to those in 8:5-8. Why? Because we are "in the Spirit," indicating that we are in Christ. He emphasizes this at the end of the verse by saying "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This includes those "in the flesh" in verses 5-8. I agree that no one can please God through the law while in the flesh, but that means every unsaved person because if you don't know Christ, you are trying to justify yourself by the deeds of the law regardless if you know this or not. Romans 3:9-20 talks about this, and 3:19-20 emphasizes that point. There's no way you can make Romans 8:5-8 not apply to unsaved people. If it were just about Christians and their struggles in the flesh, then it means they don't please God in the flesh, but unsaved people do? That's contradictory. So, the reason I took the time to explain this is it is easy to say, "You have to read it in its context friend," yet you consistently take verses out of context in your replies but don't even realize it (or you do and you just go with whatever you think the Bible says instead of what it says). So while I appreciate you taking the time to comment, your interpretations and explanations have never convinced me because the context, content, and grammar never dictates it. But you can assert whatever pleases you, but I stand unconvinced, so don't be insulted if you reply back and I ignore it because it's the same ole same ole to me.
Eric Smith I didn’t claim that it wasn’t about the unregenerate. It’s the unregenerate trying to please God through the law. That would pertain mostly to Jews who are striving to work for salvation..... Rom 9: 30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; That doesn’t mean that the unregenerate can’t do some things that are pleasing to God...... 1kin 21: 27 ¶ And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 28 ¶ And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house. 2Kin 10: 30 And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. 31 But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin. Jer 34: 15 And ye were now turned, and had done right in my sight, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbour; and ye had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name: 16 But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom ye had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids. None of these were ever saved and none of them pleases God through the law. They did do acts that God approved of and He said so. So I stand by what I said about Romans 8. It’s in reference to law keeping. God bless
Notice that no scriptures offered saying that regeneration precedes faith. This is nonsense from a systematic which is trying to force the scriptures to suit . No one could possibly come to the conclusion the regeneration precedes faith from simply reading the bible .
People hate these Biblical truths because it attacks the heart of a man. It hurts deeply to know that it's GOD ALONE who saves. You can't come to faith on your own, it IS the gift of God.
The Gospel is God's salvation message provided to all men. Christ's words are spirit and life. Why accuse people who hear and believe God's Gospel of coming to faith on their own, when Scripture is what causes a man to believe - God's words, not man's.
God has predestined that all who believe in Christ, will have eternal life, and those who do not believe the Gospel will be condemned.
John 6:63-66
... *_the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life._*
[64] *_But there are some of you that believe not._* For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, ...
[65] ... *_Therefore_* ... *_no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father._*
[66] *_From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him._*
1 Peter 1:23 KJV
*_Being born again,_* … *_by the word of God,_* …
Ephesians 1:13
[13] *_In whom ye also trusted,_*
after that *_ye heard … the gospel of your salvation_*
*_after that ye believed,_*
*_ye were sealed_* with that holy Spirit of promise,
A) Hear the Gospel
B) Believe the Gospel
C( Sealed and saved.
Well said.
Sounds spiritual i have to say...
Wait, what Bible verse says faith is the gift?
@@RezG_777 Ephesians 2:8-9 and Philippians 1:29 are the clearest, and there are other verses that say God gives repentance too.
Excellent video.
We are saved by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone according to the scripture alone for the glory of God alone.
Wow, you nailed it. Perfect theology. All hail the reformed theology 🎉.
Makes sense to me. I was as lost and as far away from God as anyone could be, and the fact that I found my way to Christ is nothing short of a miracle. I truly feel like God saved me. Thank you God.
To be born again or to become a Child of God is the miracle itself. When you were lost, you HEARD the Gospel. And you BELIEVED the Gospel (it means you did not reject it, you made a decision to accept it..also Romans 10:17). The moment you believed you became a child of God (John 1:12). The moment you believed you were sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). You came to faith because you HEARD the Gospel and you responded to it by accepting it. You made a decision for it. There is the freewill given to us. You exercised it and you made the right choice by believing the Gospel. Regeneration does not precede faith. That is simply a Calvinistic view and not what the Bible says. The invitation to be saved is...WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16).
You found your way?
@@jasont5300 Yes! I mean within the context of what is being discussed here. I heard the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and I believe it (john 3:16). The moment I believed I was sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13). I am saved forever. I have found my way by God's grace (Ephesians 2:8,9).
@@dangaerlan6906 That is exactly right. Repentance and Faith both precede regeneration. Whomsoever will may come! God is calling all to repentance.
“Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,”
Acts 17:30 NKJV
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
II Peter 3:9 NKJV
@@dangaerlan6906 RC said in the video you can plant the seed, you can water the seed, but God is the one who works the increase who saves. You may hear the Gospel your whole life and reject it over and over again and go to your grave rejecting it but that's the teaching of the Bible that unless God quickens you by the Holy Spirit you will never come to faith. Thus the Bible says we are the chosen of God, the elect. It's very clear not of the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of God. Also the whole seek God and choose him contradicts the apostle Paul who points out in romans 3 that no one seeks God so when no one seeks, no one will choose and if it's an issue of if Jesus death was a potential atonement not an actual atonement where the will of man is over the will of God where man can reject the grace given then that contradicts Jesus when he says all those the father gives me will never perish meaning they will come to him and believe all who God chooses. Or if God looks down the corridors of time to see who will choose him and thats how he chooses based on our response contradicts romans 3 where God would see no one is seeking or choosing him. It's aligning scripture with scripture. The Word is infallible and we should treat it as so, when our understanding contradicts scripture is when we abandon the idea we had and align with His Word.
RC Sproul’s mind is incredibly sharp. He has influenced not my beliefs per se, but the way I think about anything. His thought process in tackling issues is second to none of his peers.
What a waste of finger energy
You are in darkness and reject the light but you are triggered by the light
Its just too costly.
Got it.
TULIP Nonsense !...in fact, there is no biblical Regeneration prior to Baptism....(Titus 3:5, John 3:5)....
Sproul didn't provide a single Biblical verse...supporting "his position" (his words)
...you know...I don't have any "Tough Bible Passages"...then again, I don't allow my theology to dictate its Bible Truths...rather, its clear Truths become my theology....
this is so high quality preaching. Gods mercy is immense.
Lol except to the billions he doesn’t do this for
It is an internal change that takes place within us, through the power of His Spirit, before we can truly believe and trust in Him. We may be able to understand the message of the gospel in our own wisdom before He enters, but it is our spirit reborn when we can truly see the depths of His mercy upon us. And it is only with open eyes that we truly repent for we cannot truly understand the measurement of His sacrifice that leads us on a lifelong commitment to Him until He opens our eyes to His truth. That is the miracle of salvation. Those who have been saved have received the greatest miracle - Amazing Grace.
This gospel truly liberated me!!! Glory to God
True, True, True !!! All are spiritually dead until God makes us alive with Christ , by Grace we have been saved !!
Added to that, the logical order of faith preceding being made alive in Ephesians 2, that is what determines what the definition of dead is. Not the other way around. The logical order proves that Paul is using the word dead metaphorically, not literally. We are metaphorically dead, meaning we are separated from the Lord, like the Prodigal Son was "dead" but was actually just separated from his father. We are separated from God relationally because of our trespasses and must put our faith, our trust, in God in order to be brought back in a relationship with Him, reconciled, and we do this by the means of faith.
My favorite quote from R.C. Sproul on how regeneration preceeds faith:
"You will resist it as hard as you can. But God will overcome your resistance. When God chooses to save somebody, in his sovereignty, he saves them. Edwards called it ‘the holy rape of the soul.’ Some people are violently offended by that language. I think it’s the most graphic and descriptive term I can think of, of how I was redeemed.” Man does not have any free agency in the face of an aggressor like God! I love Reformed theology! I could never learn this stuff from just the Bible.
😂
If this was sarcastic, it was hilarious
Ephesians 1:13 says you are sealed after you believe and not the other way around, and we know that being sealed by the holy spirit happens at the moment of spiritual birth.
But for sure if you haven't been given the new heart and new birth from above it doesn't matter what order you believe in but what does matter is that Christ has changed your heart and given you new desires and you want to obey him and serve him rather than sin.
Are you suggesting that because the Spirit comes to indwell the believer AFTER he believes and is justified, that the Spirit does no work whatsoever in people prior to and during his conversion? That the Spirit is dormant and is waiting for a natural, graceless person to take the first step to believe, before He will do anything? Consider that If we as regenerate believers need the Spirit daily to believe, obey and persevere in the faith, how much more does the unbeliever need Him to understand and believe the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:12,14). The Biblical evidence is so overwhelming that the Spirit also works prior to belief (1 Thess 1:4,5) that this should not even be a debate in the church. The sinner hears and comes to Christ only because the Holy Spirit opens his ears, eyes and understanding to the gospel (Deut 29:4, 30:6; John 6:63-65). As in creation, the Spirit broods over us, so to speak, before He gives the birth to us. It is important that we do not limit the Spirit's work but understand that He has a full array of ministries:
In fact, there are seven major distinct ministries of the Holy Spirit:
Convicts unbelievers of sin, righteousness and judgment: John 16:8-11.
Calls and Regenerates (causing us to believe): 1 Cor 1:24; John 1:13, 3:1-8, 6:63-65; Titus 3:5, I Peter 1:23-25; James 1:18.
Indwells and baptizes the believer: I Corinthians 6:19; Romans 8:9; John 14:16; I Corinthians 12:13.
Seals us: Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30.
Imparts gifts: I Corinthians 12:7-11.
Fills the believer: Ephesians 5:15-21; Galatians 5:16.
Causes us to bear fruit: Galatians 5:22-23.- conforming us to the character of Jesus Christ.
I would encourage you to also consider that you thank God for your conversion because you know your repenting and believing cannot be ascribed to your own wisdom, sound judgment, or good sense (even partly). Jesus Christ gets ALL the glory (1 Cor 1:20-31). Even the very humility you have to believe is a gift of grace... "for what do you have that you did not receive."
Lastly, take the time to read Ephesians 1:13 in light of the first 12 verses in the chapter. Reading texts in isolation is a sure way to produce unsound theology. Read in context God predestined and adopted us as sons, according to the good pleasure of His will, not ours. Keep reading until Ephesians 2 and you'll see that man is in a state of spiritual deadness prior to regeneration. It seems to me that a person focused gratifying the cravings of the flesh would have no place for faith.
Thank God for this clarification through the mouth of R.C. Sproul.
What a lie
You should read The Potter's Promise.
I loved R.C.'s teaching. I will miss him until the Lord calls me home too.
Tom W
But he’s so wrong.
Regeneration happens after faith....
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
All that believed would receive the Spirit after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension....
Jhn 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The Holy Spirit is first given here....
Jhn 20: 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
So they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection as Jesus stated in John 7. That’s well after the disciples believed, and many others as well......
Jhn 2: 23 ¶ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
Luk 7: 50 ¶ And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Even after the resurrection, faith still preceded regeneration.....
Eph 1: 13 ¶ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Just to clarify what regeneration is. It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit....
Rom 8: 9 ¶ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Spiritual life happens after belief.....
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The disciples hadn’t received this life before the resurrection of Christ.....
Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Peter hadn’t yet been converted.....
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
(Matt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.)
God bless
mariosangermano
When did the disciples “see the kingdom of God”?
Acts 1: 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
They didn’t yet understand (or see) the kingdom at this point. They get it here....
Acts 2: 29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 ¶ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 ¶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
After Pentecost they were able to see the kingdom. That’s when regeneration took place.
You’re misunderstanding the passages you cited. We can look at them if you like.
Mar 7: 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Can you point out how this describes total inability to me? I’d like to start with your first passage but I’m not seeing how you can conclude that men are incapable of doing anything good in the sight of God from this passage.
Thanks.
@@evanu6579 Amen! Thank you for making it right. I don’t have anymore energy to explain it anymore...so tired lol
@@evanu6579 Do you believe that anyone can do enough “good” to earn Heaven? Just to be clear,I am not a Calvinist so my question is an honest and genuine one from an honest heart
@@nicholascarter6543
No. No one can be good enough to earn heaven. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith is the opposite of works or being “good enough”. You rely on the righteousness of another rather than your own goodness.
God made it easy so we could do it. If the law was too difficult that man couldn’t attain to it, then why would He make another way that’s just as impossible?
God bless brother. It’s not an easy task convincing people who are so devoted to a doctrine. It can definitely be exhausting :)
I had no intentions of seeking Christ never owned a Bible never went to church , in fact I believe born again Christians were the worst One day the Holy Spirit came upon me and let me know this is the son of God. I never looked back.
bob rei that is wonderful news! Praise the Lord for His mercy. My question to you is this... Do you now feel that you are being forced by the Holy Spirit to follow Him because He chose you? Or did you choose to follow once He revealed Himself to you? Or do you not know that He has given you no choice. Serious question.
Im curious for anyone to answer this question. Thanks in advance.
Thanks 4 these awesome videos all the ones with rc
Amen. A true man of God.
I bet Hunt and Sproul aren't arguing theology now. One of them is saying "I told you so!" 😉
Yeah it's Sproul
@@BRNRDNCK Haha, nope.
@@lmorter7867 haha, yep
@@BRNRDNCK The bible doesn't teach that God is deterministic and that man is void of free will so he can't be correct.
@@lmorter7867 Good thing that's not what Sproul believes
God definitely intervenes and changes your heart, preparing you to receive the gospel. The word regeneration seems to confuse some people, thinking it's the same as salvation, which it is not.
When I'm feeling down and lonely, Jesus always comes and rescues me through RC
🤣.
Praise the Lord!
An amazing theologian!!! Soli Deo gloria! 🙏🙏🙏
Praise God and glory to God alone for raising R.C Sproul. Looking forward to see you in Heaven.
killian bernal
Regeneration happens after faith....
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
All that believed would receive the Spirit after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension....
Jhn 14: 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 15: 26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Jhn 16: 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The Holy Spirit is first given here....
Jhn 20: 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
So they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit until after the resurrection as Jesus stated in John 7. That’s well after the disciples believed, and many others as well......
Jhn 2: 23 ¶ Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
Luk 7: 50 ¶ And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Even after the resurrection, faith still preceded regeneration.....
Eph 1: 13 ¶ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Just to clarify what regeneration is. It is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit....
Rom 8: 9 ¶ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Spiritual life happens after belief.....
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The disciples hadn’t received this life before the resurrection of Christ.....
Jhn 14:19 ¶ Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Peter hadn’t yet been converted.....
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
(Matt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.)
@@evanu6579 - You are wrong in your theology. Try reading out of the scriptures what is there, not reading into the Word.
Ray Jacobs
That’s not very helpful if you don’t point out how I misused these passages.
Please point out how the context changes the meaning in just a couple of them. That way you could edify me and anyone who reads this post.
Thank you
@@evanu6579 -Just like your previous comment isn't helpful. Just an assertion on your part. What does it mean to be dead in sin? Is any human being able to raise themselves up by "their" faith and make themselves alive to God? Saving faith is from Jesus Christ who is the author (originator) and perfecter (finisher) of faith, NOT us! I will admit that sometimes it confuses me that in spite of what I just wrote, God still holds all people responsible for "rejecting" Christ. Romans chapter 9 helps my confusion. Later.
Ray Jacobs
To be dead in sin means you’re separated from God. Jesus makes us alive by reconciling us to the Father. He does it if we repent and believe.
Jesus is the author (the substance)....
Heb 5: 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
And finisher of our faith....
1Pe 1: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Paul is writing an occasional epistle to the Romans. The Jews and Gentiles weren't getting along. Once the Jews were allowed to return to Rome, they found their church to be quite different from when they left. Paul corrects their attitude towards the Gentiles. He directs his conversation towards the Jews for a while, then to the Gentiles......
Rom 2:17 ¶ Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
He then condemns their attitude in the remaining verses of this chapter. He continues his discussion
Rom 3:1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
9 ¶ What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
He uses the phrase "we" and "Jews", speaking in the first person plural.
Rom 4:1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Abraham is the father of all who are in Christ, according to the promise, but not according to the flesh. That would be the Jews.
Rom 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
The Jews know the law. (Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:)
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
The ones who have the firstfruits of the Spirit are the Jews....
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem
Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Rom 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Jas 1:1 ¶ James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Back to Romans.....
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
"Us, Jews" is again in the first person plural.
He switches his attention to the Gentiles here.....
Rom 11:13 ¶ For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office
Notice the direction he gives them.....
Rom 14:1 ¶ Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
The Jews had trouble eating what was once "unclean". The Gentiles were to be careful not to offend.
So the purpose of all of this, is that when Paul was speaking to the Jews, he quoted a lot more scripture and assumed they would know what he meant.....
Rom 10: 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
This makes no sense without knowing this.....
Deu 30:11 ¶ For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Do you agree? This is important to understanding Romans 9.
Later.
Sinners and the harmless deserve to live in two different worlds. For on earth, wealth is the power that controls and there is no gratitude to motivate compassion, pity or charity. While in heaven, gratitude is the power that controls, as there is no wealth to motivate greed.
It's by God's grace that we are saved. Also I would say that God sees our disposition and if we look for him, he will regenerate us.
Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.
Jeremiah 33:3
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare[a] and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:11-13
May God bless you in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Very good.❤
“But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.”
Romans 6:17 NKJV
Amen. God grants and perfects our faith.
Can RC sproul truly look and unbeliever in the eye and truly say to him in the light of his Calvinistic philosophy That Jesus loves him. I mean truly in his heart of hearts.
the gospel message is not Jesus loves you. the gospel message is Christ died for guilty sinners, repent and believe in Him.
Todd Friel (a calvinist) did a CZcams video on his channel Wretched TV saying we should not tell people that God loves them unconditionally. He was commenting on what another well-known calvinist said. I believe it was RC Sproul.
On the other hand, I've seen videos of Friel engaging in open air preaching and he doesn't say God loves you and wants to save you, but only if you are elect. His evangelistic preaching was decidedly not calvinistic.
@@juanitadudley4788 God does love everyone unconditionally .Yet to be excepted in his kingdom comes with conditions. We must believe on him . There are no conditions on God's love as it states in 1cor13 God is Love
@@robertschutt850 I'm not a calvinist, so this is not my line of thinking. I was merely addressing your question.
He has stated he cannot and would not. Yet the Scriptures say God SO LOVED THE WORLD
HE that comes to God must first believe that he is
Knowledge of God does not equal saving faith. Paul sets out that all men have a knowledge of God in Romans 1:16: "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them," and yet not all are saved. Saving faith in the Biblical God (that includes Jesus) is one that can only be received by the opening of the eyes and renewal of heart (i.e. regeneration), which is wholly a work of the Spirit alone. Matthew 7:21 - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Jaidyn Weight you’re saying that ALL men can know God and are programed naturally to recognize the existence and even the character of God through creation, but cannot believe in Him? I know it is a work of the Holy Spirit but you’re contradicting yourself. Is like saying that a baby can see while he is born blind and he will be treated as a non blind child, even though he is blind, because he actually can see as any other kid. Is a contradiction in all senses! Remember that “flesh” is not a literal concept, it is a form to express the “tendency to desire our own satisfaction without God” and that tendency is not inherited but learned! If the first human sinned, he falls to a wicked version of himself and cannot set himself free so he will sin again at some point of his life, then his children will see him sin and will learn to sin and then this goes all forward until now! So everybody have sinned! God created us in His Image (moral beings) but we decided to seek “autonomy” from God and that’s when all got chaotic!
@@jaidynweight5394 So first man has to acknowledge there is a creator first, then God makes them regenerate, then they can believe the gospel?
@@hectorporrasortiz5009
Do you believe in the sin nature? Or do you think sin is just an action? Surely sin comes from a heart that desires it?
@Felipe The Mouse
I have a question does GOD know every individual person that is going to heaven from the beginning or is he waiting to find out?
True. St. John 3:27 !
Praise the Lord Jesus 🤍✝️🤍 Worship His Holy Name
When you confuse seeing heaven with faith, and being dead in trespasses with being incapable of believing, and ignoring Judas who was numbered among the 12 and had his place in the ministry.
Jesus, refering to Judas, said "one of you is a devil." (John 6:70) Judas was never regenerated.
Lsd trip
@@dannywilliamson3340 So he was elected but not elect?
@@robertschutt850 He was a vessel of wrath, fitted for destruction. He fulfilled his purpose.
@@dannywilliamson3340 That' chapter is referring to nations not about Judas or individual salvation, context my friend context.
First of all tons of respect for RC. "Regeneration preceeding faith" does sound pious and has rhetorical value, but the gospel isn't about piety or rhetoric. We need to stick with the scriptures.
"but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that _by believing you may have life_ in his name."
John 20:31 ESV
Apostle John is saying literally the exact opposite of R.C.
God took the initiative by sending his son to be the savior of the world. We are responders to his gracious and merciful initiative.
Neither the Eastern Orthodox nor the Roman Catholic have the "Regeneration Preceeding Faith" doctrine, nor do they have the "make a decision, mass evangelism, come forward to be born again" stuff (they have other problems). So there is something else going on, probably having more to do with "the evangelicals" loss of Lord's Day liturgical corporate worship, rather than due to a less pious sounding ordo salutis.
Anyway, mad respect for RC and Ligonier Ministries.❤️
No he is not
John wrote to believers who were already regenerated by the spirit then and now.
So that you may believe means they WILL believe.
You obviously do not believe and reject the scriptures and believe the opposite of what they say so you do not have to actually repent but say a prayer and offer nothing and sacrifice nothing like 99.9 percent of western hypocrites self styled christians totally in opposition to the grace of the cross given to clearly helpless depraved men in total darkness.
In not for YHVH ELOHIM we would have been like sodom and gomorrah= totally wiped out
Isaiah 1
He came for the sick not the well
regeneration proceeds saving faith when general faith along with not suppressing the truth is the responsibility of man for God to grant repentance
He talked about Martin Luther but Martin Luther taught that faith comes before the new birth. Scripture proves this - Ephesians 1:13b - "in whom also after that you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.". You have to believe in Christ first before you can receive the indwelling Spirit. The gospels prove this also...Peter made a confession of faith first-. "we believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God" - John 6:69, but he didn't receive the Spirit until after Christ's resurrection. The Word of God speaks for itself. I wish Christians would read the Bible more than they read theology books
ntanner747
You got that right I just posted something from Calvin
ntanner747 Christ had not ascended back to heaven and God the Holy Spirit had not been sent at the time when Peter received knowledge of Christ’s deity from the Father
Amen
Your born again the moment you believe the truth..1 Peter 1 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
James 1 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Tito, you have it backwards... you are born-again, THEN you are able to repent and believe.
Ray Jacobs. But didnt you read the scriptures that tito provided? The Spirits work on a man and regeneration are not synonymous. Please re-read those passages and also consider these words of Jesus... John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
The postion that spiritual life before or apart from belief on Jesus is in opposition to much scripture. Here is one...John 3:18 # He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Better to make a clear distinction between the Holy Spirits initial work in a mans heart and regeneration which occurs as an inevitable result of that work through faith.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
@@henrybarrick7205Read Hebrews 12:2...over and over again. Saving faith is a gift of God's grace. You, no more caused your first, physical birth anymore that your spiritual birth. ALL praise, glory and honor go to God... none for us.
Ray Jacobs : Im not denying that faith is a gift of God. I am questioning the idea that the new birth or regeneration precede faith.
I think it is more biblical to understand the initial workings of Gods Spirit on man as being before faith and for the purpose of producing faith. But the new birth is through faith. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith for sure. We would never hope in him apart from Him first working for and in us.
Amen! Yes
*1 Corinthians 2 : 14*
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Brilliantly put
He managed to make something simple so complicated, ending up with the opposite of Scripture. I didn’t realise this is what reformed theology teaches, it’s quite astounding...
What part of “while we where dead in our trespasses and sins God made us alive “,is so hard to understand? Keep studying scripture.
@@teejay7510 regeneration before faith just isn't biblical dude... It's made up.
@@huntsman528 You could not be more wrong.
@@jdhaole7650 Dude, not convincing. Show me where I'm wrong. It isn't in the Bible.
He’s trying to force scripture to fit Calvinism and it just won’t without a tremendous amount of manipulation and speculation.
God's word is His breath! (see 2 Timothy 3:16)
God's Word/Breath CREATED everything and SUSTAINS everything by His word and breath (Hebrews 1:3, Job 34:14)
The universe came forth at God's word.
Lazarus came forth out of the tomb at God's word.
And WE come forth (into spiritual life) at God's word!
If you look at all scripture related to faith, regeneration, the work of the spirit, works of faith, etc. - you clearly see something happens in a moment of realization and recognition of who and what Christ is that immediately brings His New Creation to our own spirit- (not the whole of us yet- not our flesh). Faith comes by the Word of God (John 1:1 & Ephesians 6:17), and changes our behavior- making these FaithWorks completely inseparably entwined. Both are driven by Grace and not our will. It is not of us but not apart from us and our experience in that moment of realization and recognition and His mind and will - already ours by grace, become fully ours as we work out our salvation in fear and trembling and submit our will in our life.
Greg, think about that part of your statement, "the moment of realization."
Are you asserting that the
" realization," can only happen if God makes it happen? God has the power to establish any plan He chooses. We non calvinists are claiming that God DID NOT, establish the plan and process of salvation that calvinists claim.
If we were to separated each belief claim of calvinism, and study each, what we discover is a contradiction between the belief claims.
If regeneration must precede faith then why was it that King Agrippa had faith in what Paul said but didn't get saved? And why did Felix tremble at what Paul said unless he believed what Paul said and if he believed what Paul said then why didn't he become a Christian? Faith must always come before regeneration. And faith comes by hearing the word of God and being enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit.
@Ric McGuire You can be all of that and still lost. Just being convicted and enlightened by the Holy Spirit and believing doesn't make you a Christian.
@Ric McGuire Do you believe Felix was saved just because he believed. A person must be willing to serve the Lord also. Not just believe. They must also repent of their wicked ways. Many believe when they hear the Gospel and are convicted of their sins but aren't willing to give up their sinful ways and serve God.
@Ric McGuire Why don't you answer any of my questions? Explain Felix. Don't you believe where the Bible says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved? It doesn't say whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord is doing so because they are already saved does it?
@Ric McGuire Why won't you answer my questions? Is it because you can't? A person must be enlightened and convicted by the Holy Spirit. They must believe the Gospel. They must have a desire to serve the Lord and choose to do so. They must call upon the name of the Lord. They must repent of their evil ways and ask for forgiveness. What part of this list do you disagree with which the Bible teaches? By the way, you asked me 2 questions before that. And I answered them. And now I've answered your 3rd question. Now why won't you answer my simple questions?
@Ric McGuire I believe I've already answered that question. Go back and read carefully and slowly all my comments. I can see now that you're not interested in answering any of my questions. Good bye.
Not a debatable subject however I would say regeneration first
Anyway without faith it's impossible
To please him
I believe help mine unbelief!
If you say “regeneration precedes faith,” not only is this unscriptural, but you have salvation outside of Christ.
You cannot have faith until the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and regenerates you to have faith. You are dead in your trespasses and sins before you are regenerated, meaning you cannot believe until the Holy Spirit makes you alive. Born again! God does the choosing. All we can choose is sin because of the fall of Adam. No one understands this until we are made alive thru Christ. I pray your mind and heart will be enlightened by the scriptures and teachings of God's word.
Does regeneration proceed faith? Answer: No. It comes as a result. "That whosoever believes in him may have eternal life..." Right?
So you’re saying dead people can do something? How much did Lazarus help with his own resurrection? Is the carnal mind really at enmity against God, like the Bible says? If so, even if the lost could do anything towards believing they wouldn’t because they hate God. Go share your faith with the lost and see how they receive it. And you might want to bring some protection
@@mountainman78629 Rather than trying to draw logical conclusions based on the vague term of being "dead" spiritually, it would be better to let Scripture speak for itself, right? As Jesus said, "...that whosoever believes in him may have eternal life." Belief proceeds regeneration, otherwise you would have eternal life before belief. Nowhere does it say a spiritually dead person cannot repent and believe under the conviction of the Holy Spirit. That is a conclusion without scriptural support. Okay, God bless.
4:30 the real collision point is since God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked the why doesn't he regenerate all??
I have been a five point calvinist for about two years now, but man I love listening to Leighton Flowers.... He brings up some (seemingly) amazing points... But then i just watch Dr. White refute all of them. LOL. Soli Deo Gloria.
White doesn't refute. White doesn't even understand non-calvinism. It's amazing that a doctrine that is claimed to be so righteous creates so many arrogant individuals like White. I listened to a two and a half hour video of White crapping on non-calvinist. Saying "I unblocked them on twitter to write a message on their wall about how they said something wrong".
So Simple to understand, but so hard for Prideful Men to accept.
brother it's not simple that a loving God predetermined most people for damnation without them having the ability escape it. It's not pride It's how we disagree on interpretation. Pride is what sends everyone to hell according to Roman's 1 18. blessings
@@gwine2nine52 But you know as well as I that ever since Adam sinned we're all already destined to Hell unless we're Saved by the Grace of God. Election obviously means that God has selected a remnant of people for Himself which means He did not chose others. Scripture says that Jesus told His Apostles to "Remember, I chose you, you did not choose me."
The Old and New Testament bears wittiness that The Lord has chosen some and not others all the time. The Lord of the Old Testament is the Same Lord of the New Testament.
We know that GOD is Righteous, so His decisions are Righteous too.
This same loving God your referring to decided to drown all people on Earth accept Noah and his Family. That's countless Millions of People. He's the same loving God who killed Hundreds of thousand of enemies of His chosen people , the Israelites. He's the same Loving God who caused thousands to be swallowed up when He opened the Earth. He's the God who drowned thousands of Egyptians who were pursuing his chosen people. I'm sure You get the picture.
It's not uncommon for God to choose some and not Others if it serves His Purposes. The scripture tells us what His purpose is, which is to bring Glory to Himself. And why shouldn't He? He's the Creator of ALL things! He's Our Savior. He's our GOD. We have compassion on those don't believe. We preach the gospel to them because it's the power of God, and it is The Holy Spirit's job to convince them it's true, And that is HIS choice not ours.
@@randym.7238 yes we are all destined for hell and the only thing worse than a lost loved one going to hell is a loving God who didn't provide for all of them a way to heaven .
Jesus also told his disciples in a parable that many are called and few are chosen and there is a reason most are not chosen. so it begs the question why did God choose to exterminate the world with a flood.. what does scripture say? was it because they weren't chosen?
@@gwine2nine52 Regarding the Flood, God destroyed the people because "their thoughts were continually evil". Even "birds, fish and things that creep along the Earth and beasts", had all been corrupted. All except Noah.
Only God knows the Hearts and Minds of People and God decided that they should all be destroyed. It's certain that He had not chosen those people to obtain Mercy but did choose to show Mercy to Noah and his family. God's purpose of bringing a Savior into the World would come from Noah's blood line and no one else. The answer to your question is this; Those who God destroyed were chosen to be Objects of God's Wrath. Noah and his Family were chosen to be Objects of God's Mercy.
God cleansed the World of Wickedness and at the same time He continued His plan to provide those who would believe in Jesus The Way to be cleansed of their Sins. This is why God chose to exterminate the World with the flood.
@@randym.7238 Is it reasonable that God would punish us for a choice we did not make (Adam's) and then damn us for a choice we were not even given the freedom to consider (the choice to have faith)?
Answer: NO
Well said RC
The rich man in hell, in Luke 16, was dead in flesh and in trespasses and sins. And he did a lot of things. He lifted his eyes, asked for mercy, was burdened for his brother's who were going to hell. Evidently a spiritually dead man can do a lot of things. Including coming to Christ when drawn of God.
Joey, you're missing the point.
A spiritual dead sinner CAN do much; in fact , the unregenerate sinner DOES DO much.
He: 1) possesses the knowledge of his Creator, but suppresses this knowledge;
2) knows that his judgement is coming, but also suppresses this knowledge and wants others to join him in his evil deeds (Rom. 1:18-32); and,
3) has knowledge that God has a law, and that he stands condemned under that law (Rom. 2:14-16; 1:30-32).
Yes, the spiritually dead sinner does do MUCH wickedness in their lifetime.
But that's not what we're talking about when we say that the spiritually dead sinner can do nothing...it means, that they cannot do ANYTHING which is good and well-pleasing to God unless they are under the Lordship of Christ (believing in Him).
Even the "good works" of the unregenerate are a disgusting, foul stench in the anthropomorphic "nostrils" of God.
Questions? Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
Exactly. The rich man tasted separation from the living water and had to wait for Jesus to pay the price.
Jesus said "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me."
His language and logic are so soothing to my brain.
Take some soothing logic from Spurgeon..
If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and, bid him to belive in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then brining him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. C.H.Spurgeon
Contradicting the teaching of "regeneration precedes faith"so popular among Calvinist today,Calvin even titled a chapter" Regeneration by faith"Institutes.
RC engaged in charming obfuscation, while not relying on scripture, and never answering directly.
I listened to him answer a question about freewill, when he could have just answered plainly yes or no. He never actually answered the question.
I agree with Dr Sproul, amen!
I agree with the Bible, Amen!
' moral inability ' where is that scripture please ?
Dead in sin.
Dead:no longer alive,
In:expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else.
sin:an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
Much love brothers and sisters Jesus Christ is King
Just do a search on dead in sin
Take a look at Romans 7:13-25
@@c.g.ryderii2405 being dead in sin would indicate that spiritual death is the result of sin and not that sin is the result of spiritual death. And that would coincide with Scripture that says that the wages of sin is death. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the wages of spiritual death is sin.
*Who really thinks it* *makes a difference* *Both Faith and* *Regeneration are* *Gifts From the Grace* *of God/Jesus accept* *them as you Recieve* *them Gods gifts are* *because He first* *loved Us*
*1John**4:10** Is Not* *Grace First*
Salvation apart from faith? Really RC? Theire s no verse in the entire NT that say explicitly the regeneration precedes faith. Galatians 3:2 says expicitly the the spirit is received by faith, not faith by the spirit. Many other scriptures say the same.
"Galatians 3:2 says explicitly"?
Not necessarily. Regeneration->Faith->Justification->Receive the indwelling and sealing Spirit. The Spirit made us alive together with Christ WHILE WE WERE DEAD in our trespasses (Eph 2: 5). If faith precedes regeneration, then faith does not really justify us. Do you see the logic? We are first made alive (regenerated) and then the faith we are required to have for our justification is now active precisely because we are made alive again.
"no verse in the entire NT..."?
Incorrect. R.C. made it very clear that Jesus and Nicodemus (Nic-at-Nite) already had this discussion in John 3. No one SEES or ENTERS the kingdom (i.e. becomes a believer, passes from death to life or darkness to light) UNTIL they are FIRST born again.
Nevertheless, we do indeed urge others to believe, not to be born again (for only the Spirit brings dead people to life) [John 3: 5-8]. For flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit [John 3: 6].
This does not diminish the outward call of the gospel to the whole world which is to believe in order to be saved. Ultimately, we leave the secret counsel of God where it belongs-with God. God has not only predestined the end, but the means by which they come. We simply want to be faithful and obedient in our (planting) and leave the growth up to Him.
Blessings...
@@bradwebb7955
Ephesians 2:5 KJV
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
From the way non-Calvinist see this verse:
In Ephesians 2:5 Paul is equating "being made alive" to "being saved by Grace".
So, made alive = saved by grace, correct?
So how does one access that Grace, so as to be saved (or be made alive)? By faith.
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved THROUGH faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Romans 5:2 KJV
By whom also we have access by faith INTO this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
You seem to think "being made alive" = "having faith/being able to have faith".
Paul, however seems to be saying "being made alive" = "being saved by grace".
To You first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless You, in turning away every one of You from your iniquities. But since He died in vein, repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, perhaps the thoughts of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that You are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquty. For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, for when they fall away it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God and put Paul to an open shame.
The real collision point is: For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation]. I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation], for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ [the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation]. [Rom 1 : 16, 10 : 17, Gal 1 : 6-7]
💖
Yes, it's unique to Reformed Theology, that's what makes it different from Christianity, which believes what Jesus taught:
💥Jn5:40
"..yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life"
We don't get life (be born-again) in order to go to Jesus, we go to Jesus in order to have life.
💥John20:30
"but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that in believing you may have life in His name"
We believe in the Son so that we may have Life.
Wonder what's so confusing for RC 🤷♂️❗
Yeah I wonder what so weird about the idea that the dead Lazarus needed to crawl out of his grave, still dead, towards Jesus in order to receive life.
@@Lena.9
Lazarus was raised from his dead state to prove the Messiah.
⭐John 11
14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead.
15) I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe. Nevertheless, let’s go to him.”
40) Jesus said to her, “Didn’t I tell you that if you believed, you would see God’s glory?”
Infact v40 shows that IF WE BELIEVE we will see God's glory. It's not after we receive God's glorious regeneration that we believe, which is the false teaching in Calvinism.
@@T.Ravikumar Not addressing the topic. V40: did Lazarus believe and then brought to life or not? And what’s ‘glorious regeneration’…?
According to Romans 8:30 glorification comes after justification. And we are justified by faith, so yes if we believe we will see Gods glory.
Also justification by faith comes after being called. And the instance we are called through the Word of God we are regenerated (1 Peter 1:23; John 6:63).
@@Lena.9 The Lazarus incident has got nothing to do with Salvation. This miracle was a deliberate work of Christ the world that the Messiah has come.
@@T.Ravikumar Right, the Messiah came to just show Himself to be the Messiah. Or.. did He had a greater purpose and message, which was related to salvation and confirmed by the miracles?
The healing of the paralyzed man is a beautiful example of somebody who saw past the miracles towards the real goal of Jesus’ ministry. That man and his friends came to find salvation, forgiveness of sins in the first place. And to confirm he is forgiven Jesus also healed him.
We all need to be like that man when reading about Jesus’ work. And not be like the multitudes who saw the miracles but not the signs (John 6:26). Signs point us towards something greater.
In the miracle of the resurrection of Lazarus we find the sign in John 11:25-26. We all still die physically, so Jesus’ words are pointing to spiritual life and death. And that, my friend, has everything to do with salvation.
And yet the Bible says this. Did God get it wrong? Maybe God should have consulted with some Calvinists. Heb. 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Galatians 3:2 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?" Galatians 3:5 "Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?"
He will call.his elect from the 4 winds
His elect call out to him day and night
No one can come to me unless the father draws Him
regeneration is by faith. faith first.
Sproul highlights two possibilities - Whether man can believe out of the flesh or whether God has to change that heart before we believe.
In actual fact, both of these possibilities are incorrect. It is true that fallen man cannot of his own initiative choose to be reconciled to God and it is certainly not true that God changes the heart of just a few of His fallen creation in order that they only can believe.
Jesus said that when He is lifted up He will draw all men to Himself. This is done through the preaching of the Gospel which is the power of God unto Salvation. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgement.
To say that the unconverted must first be regenerated before they can place their faith in Christ is an attack on the sufficiency of the Gospel - the Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation and does not require additional assistance other than the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Calvinists misrepresent the position of non-Calvinists when they attempt to show that there are only two options, neither of which non-Calvinists support.
Greg Jay, you are missing the entire point of contention.
The Gospel proclaimed is NOT the ONLY thing that MUST happen in the fallen sinner who hears it.
If you are saying that fallen man possesses 'the power of contrary choice' (the fallacious definition synergists give to the concept of 'human libertarian free will', which is NOT the biblical definition of this concept) then you must say it, rather than just assume it.
If you are saying that it is man's 'power of contrary choice' which makes efficacious the Holy Spirit's work in the salvation of any wretched sinner, the please state this emphatically.
Does the Holy Spirit sometimes FAIL in His ministry? Is His ministerial work dependent upon the sinner's 'power of contrary choice'?
Please explain.
The fact is, when God GRACES a sinner, via the preaching of the Gospel, that sinner BELIEVES AS A RESULT.
God also HARDENS other sinners when they hear that same Gospel, because God has reserved them for the Judgement.
God hardened Pharaoh; God Graced Moses...etc.
Questions? Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
Ryan Gallmeier. But Jay said that the convicting work of the Holy Spirit is also neccesary. Is it possible that some are confounding the initial work of the Spirit with full blown regeneration?
@@henrybarrick7205 are you reading the same response from Greg Jay that I am?
The question is: when the Holy Spirit works on the heart/mind of a spiritually dead sinner via the gospel proclamation, does that sinner still retain the 'right of refusal' to believe the gospel?
Are you assuming the synergistic definition of 'free will' as 'the power of contrary choice'?
No need to muddy the waters with more confusion than is already existent in what professes to be "Christianity" today.
We have enough of that.
Be clear in your presentation/answer or you will continue to be a part of the problem, rather than attempting to find a solution.
Ryan Gallmeier sorry if I made it confusing. Im new to you tube commenting and may not have seen the original question but thanks for bringing me up to speed.
"The question is: when the Holy Spirit works on the heart/mind of a spiritually dead sinner via the gospel proclamation, does that sinner still retain the 'right of refusal' to believe the gospel?
My response: 'right of refusal' doesnt make sense to me. Man accepts or rejects based upon his desires. Fallen man has fallen desires and will always reject.
Man in his fallen state does not seek after God(Romans 3:11)
And when presented with the gospel, man in his fallen state will still not seek after God(John6:44)
The other question...
"Are you assuming the synergistic definition of 'free will' as 'the power of contrary choice'?
No.
My whole purpose for posting a few comments was to stress the importance of making the distinction between regeneration and the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith.
I believe that the bible plainly reveals God's sovereignty in man's salvation but that he does it through numerous means(all of which are under his control).
"Regeneration before faith", R.c's topic in the video, is to simple a term and can lead to dangerous conclusions such as being saved without faith.
@@henrybarrick7205 "My whole purpose for posting a few comments was to stress the importance of making the distinction between regeneration and the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith."
What do you mean by "the initial workings of the Holy Spirit on a man prior to his faith"?
This is what needs clarification.
*And by "man" is assume you mean, 'a wretched, fallen, unclean, unholy, foul stench in the nostrils of God, sinner"..
Faith is a Question Who. It's NOT a question of what.
The confusion is the misunderstanding of the word Faith, not rebirth or regeneration.
The First step is the initiative of The Father that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, The Messiah.
Again, faith is a question Who. We have to KNOW - INTIMACY - first the person, the object of our faith.
Even Saul thought he knew the Lord and went back asking the very basic question, "Who are you, Lord?" (Acts 9:5).
Jesus replied, You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being. - Matthew 16:17
He completely misrepresents Jesus' comment to Nicodemas. John3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”(ESV) That says nothing about when we receive Jesus. It only presents being born again as the precursor for entering into the kingdom of God.
So the bible is wrong your manmade construct of religion is right..
Facepalm time
Typiczl millennial self proclaimed expert hahahahaha
He's wrong! Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." - Romans 10:17
For the UNMERITED GIFT or the GRACE of YAHWEH to be given, it does NOT matter if the SINNER is the WORSE kind like Paul or the occasional small time thief! Because YAHWEH's GRACE is UNCONDITIONAL, therefore, YAHWEH can give His GRACE to whosoever He chooses to give - regardless! And for the SINNER to be ACCEPTABLE to YAHWEH, the next step is for the HOLY SPIRIT of YAHWEH to convict the sinner of his sins and lead him/her to REPENTANCE. Genuine repentance follows and the sinner becomes BORN AGAIN or his/her DEAD spirit becomes REGENERATED (spiritually made ALIVE in the Spirit of YAHWEH). FAITH follows thereafter through the learning of the WORD of YAHWEH as FAITH comes by HEARING and HEARIN of the Word of YAHWEH, the SCRIPTURES! What follows afterwards is JUSTIFICATION, SANCTIFICATION and eventually GLORIFICATION when the SAVED sinner (Born Again Christian) comes to the Kingdom of YAHWEH! That I think is the WAY of SALVATION from GRACE to GLORIFICATION of the SAVED sinner! HalleluYAH. I could be entirely "wrong" or in "error" as I do NOT profess to be a theologian but just a Bible student.
I think the problem is that Calvinists have a different definition of the word faith. They think faith is related to works, or something we DO continually, so when someone says that salvation is received through faith, they immediately reject it since they believe salvation can't be earned. They're correct in believing that salvation cannot be earned, but having faith is NOT a work in any way. Having faith in Christ as savior is NOT "earning" salvation, it's only accepting God's free gift of salvation.
John Betts Stop it man. Calvinist believe salvation if by faith but that before one is 'saved' one must be regenerated i.e given life.
You wrote: "I think the problem is that Calvinists have a different definition of the word faith."
Nope. Calvinists go to the BIBLE for their definitions (unlike synergists, who don't know how to define human free will properly).
Faith: mental acquiescence to understood propositions.
Saving Faith: mental acquiescence to the Gospel proclamation (propositions/assertions) concerning the Person and work(s) of Jesus Christ.
Faith includes:
1) knowledge/understanding of propositions; and,
2) assent that the understood propositions are in fact TRUE (and not false).
That's how the BIBLE defines "faith".
Questions? Let me know.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
John, who's the author and perfecter of faith? You?! See Hebrews 12:2! Quit commenting on a subject that you don't know, nor understand.
Calvin redefined a lot of terms when he created the doctrines of disgrace. He redefined election as selection and predestined as predetermined as well as others.
2 Peter chapter 2 warns us of false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies. What better way to do that than the subtle redefinition of important components of the Gospel in order to create chaos.
Its wrong to put these people on a pedestal we are all unprofitable servants doing our duty!
The following 2 verses prove Calvinism is false.
Read them slowly and carefully:
“you were also RAISED WITH HIM **THROUGH** **FAITH** in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the **uncircumcision** of your flesh, He MADE YOU ALIVE together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings,”
Colossians 2:12-13
These verses say 4 things:
1
FAITH precedes being raised to LIFE from the dead
2
This happens while we are dead in our sins and when we are ungodly.
3
This happens before God spiritually circumcises us and frees us from our bondage to the flesh and sin.
4
This says/means: ungodly humans - who are spiritually dead in their sins - and who are uncircumcised and are thus still in bondage to their flesh/sin CAN HAVE FAITH. People dead in their sins HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE FAITH.
It's true you must born again but the way you become born again is by believing the gospel first. for the gospel of christ is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that believes that's why Jesus was explaining it to Nicodemus if it's like this character said Jesus wouldn't have had to explain it think people let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged
If the Father chooses a man for salvation, regenerates (saves) him, in order to allow him to believe Christ died for his sins - that puts the Father at complete odds with the Son:
John 14:6 NASB95
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the -Father- Son but through -Me- the Father.
I agree with the logic, however the first thing that happens after hearing the gospel (Romans 10:17) is not regeneration, but conviction (Strongs 1650 & 1651). This is the initial point of faith (Hebrews 11:1). Immediately after that is regeneration. It happens during the gift of faith, not before. Faith itself is a gift.
I miss RC Sproul.
Except faith isn't a gift. "For it is by grace [masculine] you have been saved [masculine], through faith [feminine]-and this [gender neutral, singular] is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast". "This" can only refer to the whole process of salvation by grace through faith as it isn't feminine or plural. It is just 100% wrong to say faith is a gift.
@@huntsman528 You are wrong again.
@@jdhaole7650 That's convincing. I get it the Gospel of Calvin says it is, but you do know that isn't actually in the Bible, right?
@@huntsman528 I do not get my theology from Calvin. This is what I believe scripture clearly teaches. I'm sure your a good Christian. We will just have to disagree on this one.
@@jdhaole7650 that's fine, just you're going to have a hard time finding evidence of that.
So, to be theologically correct, Paul should have told the jailer, "Be saved, and then you will believe on the Lord Jesus"? Hmm ...
Ha!
How does the idea of life before faith square with the words of Christ? John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
I have been forced by scripture to conclude that "regeneration before faith" is not accurate terminology.
Spiritual depravity is scriptural therefore an interventive act of God is required in order for one to excercise faith. However, the bible doesnt attribute spiritual life, the new birth or regeneration solely to the immediate work of the Holy Spirit. While it is no doubt necessary that the Spirit does work, actual spiritual "life" does not occur until the heart turns to Jesus. No exceptions(see quotation above). Some may see this as simantics but I believe that it is important to see this in a very concise manner. If not, you may, on the one hand be taking a step towards the damnable idea that some un-believers are regenerated and saved(some "primitive" baptists) or on the other hand taking a step towards the damnable idea that believers believed on thier own(church of Christ denomination).
I agree with at least part of one of the other comments on this video..."be careful".
Is it irresistable? My opinion: from Gods will and perspective no. From ours ,sometimes yes.
Believe on Him and thank Him for your faith and His working in you for His glory!
Man has been made in the image of God in order that he might seek God. He has the ability to seek God. That seeking God is not regeneration. The seeker hears the Gospel, believes, and then is baptized, being then regenerated, born of water and the Spirit. The Spirit of God strives with man to encourage him to seek God, to lead him to believe, but does not regenerate him until he believes and is baptized. Infants have the advantage of being regenerated in baptism, so that they have infused faith and thereafter are able to live according to the Spirit, or to fall away into carnality and sin.
What a goofy made up cult
It never says man is made in the image of God to seek God you liar God made man in His image when when he was WITH God.
Your adding to scripture just to justify rejecting scripture
@@iacoponefurio1915 Genesis 9.6. man is made in the image of God. Acts 17.26-27. Men are made that they should seek the Lord. Read the Scriptures.
@@anselman3156 im not reading anything from anyone as crazy and deceived as.a loony cult imbecile like you hahahaha
Adolf hitler was made in gods image hahahahaha
Senseless brute beast
Jim jones koresh wannabe
Typical millennial internet expert space cadet
Total narcissist blind as a bat totally dead inside
HOMBRE LOCO
If we tighten it even more, the conviction (Hebrews 11:1) occurs first. Which produces sorrow then produces repentance. This is of course initiated by God.
Faith based on conviction by God is NOT our own work. Faith without the conviction is ones own work.
🤓
Rc is correct. No man can come to the father unless he is drawn. And Jesus said in John 12:32. That he will draw all men unto himself. Case closed.
Universal salvation is the dumbest hypocrisy yet
@@iacoponefurio1915 Take it up with God then.
Seems those that don't quite understand reformed theology, are the ones that want to take some credit for their salvation. Yet those of us who understand reformed theology (biblical theology) give God the glory in everything.
Personally i have no problems with this part of the doctrine, that it is God who pulls us out of the world. The problem lies in other issues like that somehow it is the goodness of God to pick and choose a tiny fraction of human beings out of torments of fire and let most end down there for eternity. This is the worst injustice, the worst partiality you can imagine.
@@nikokapanen82 I have heard your argument over and over " it's not fair" and I'm sure you've heard the rebuttal " why should God show Mercy on any of us?" We are not the center of the universe.
@@A-t-r-u-s
If God can show mercy on some, He can show mercy on all. That is just and fair. Picking a tiny part of people and leaving the rest burning has nothing to do with fairness.
The real problem with all this is the eternity of torment. That is the unfair part because endless suffering has nothing to do with justice, mercy or love.
I am convinced by the revelation of God himself that the wrath of God is not some useless force which wont accomplish anything good, rather it is a purifying force, a humbling down force (Ez 24:13) which will burn all pride and rebellion out from the sinners and when that will be done, when all pride is gone, all sin will disappear because all sin is based on pride. When all sin will disappear, God will calm down because there wont be anything to keep Him angry anymore. Eventually God will become all in all as Paul states in corinthians.
@@nikokapanen82 There are many deeper issues with your theology that will exhasperate me in conversation. I would conclude though, you are a Universalist?
@@A-t-r-u-s
I dont like to call myself a universalist, because what i heard universalists believe that all will be saved. Saved from what? From Gods wrath? I dont believe that, i believe most wont be saved from the coming wrath, that only a tiny bit will be saved. Yet i do most definitely believe that God did not fall into an eternal condition of wrath. He has His wrath being collected right now to be released upon all the sinners in the end times and that wrath will burn all the filth, all the pride out of them till the last atom. That will make all sin disappear and that will make God to calm down and take control over the whole universe. So i do believe in a full scale restoration which will be accomplished by God himself.
“buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were RAISED WITH HIM THROUGH FAITH in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,”
Colossians 2:12-13
A lie from hell. Completely absent from Church history until Calvin. Calvinism makes God the author of sin. He literally WILLS SIN.
Yes regeneration comes first
If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and, bid him to belive in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then brining him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. C.H.Spurgeon
Contradicting the teaching of "regeneration precedes faith"so popular among Calvinist today,Calvin even titled a chapter" Regeneration by faith"Institutes.
Regeneration must precede faith in time or it won't be logical. This is the big error of RC Sproul's argument.
But admitting it comes first chronologically has big scriptural problems.
@@josephbrandenburg4373 On the contrary, it solves ALL problems and contradictions.
Rc sproul is way more qualified than you fake internet expert
@@iacoponefurio1915 This is a typical ad hominem attack. He is wrong because he is illogical. If you need A to get B, indisputably A needs to precede B in time. And not only he is illogical, but he also is not based on the Bible which teaches with total clarity that regeneration precedes faith. One example: 1 John 5:1
I love RC Sproul, but he was wrong on this.
"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, ye might have life through His name." --John 20:31
"...having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." --Colossians 2:12
"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." --Ephesians 1:13-14
THESE SCRIPTURES show the ORDER of things-- belief, then life. Belief, then raised to life. Belief, then sealed with the Spirit.
Nope it doesn’t and then biblical text prove it.
Cornelius is an example
Those who agree with RC Sproul that Regeneration precedes faith, Can you please give
a verse that says so?
To be regenerated or to born again means to be saved because you have passed from
death unto life. And the procedure to be born again, you must come to Jesus and believe
the gospel, So, how can you believe the gospel if you don't have faith?
Mark 16 :16 (KJV)
''He that '''''BELIEVETH''''' and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be
damned.''
John 1:12 (KJV)
''But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that '''''BELIEVE''''' on his name:''
John 3:16 (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
'''''BELIEVETH''''' in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
You see there are several verses to prove that Sproul is wrong.....Sproul uses human
logic and not Scriptures to prove His point....
The Elect of God are the true Children of God by heredity from the foundation of the
world...And they have faith which they inherit from the character of God,
After the fall of Adam and Eve they inherited the sinful nature of Adam and they died
Spiritually, But their faith did not totally vanished....
Luke 17:5 (KJV)
''And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our FAITH
You see the apostles knew that the have faith before they were regenerated and asked
Jesus to increase their faith....
The unregenerated Elect have enough faith to believe for salvation but after they are
regenerated they will grow Spiritually and .
their FAITH increases....
I can understand wanting to have a procedure as I am an engineer. I may say regeneration precedes faith but I struggle to not say that Gods regeneration births a faith in me. So I see them not necessarily one happens and then the other happens at a future date but they happen in my mind instantaneously together; but without regeneration the true saving faith won’t be present.
Mark 16:16 says that either men believe or not believe. Jesus told the disciples that if a man believes and is baptized he will be saved. What type baptism is he talking about? Did they understand it to be a water baptism or Christ’s baptism of the believer? He said that accompanying signs would show that they were believers. They were being shown the weakness of anything they could do on earth through even a water baptism but more of what Christ was going to do powerfully through them. Make believers even through these hard-hearted, unbelieving-in-what-they-were-hearing-men. So they were being told the procedure. Preach the gospel to all, baptize those who say they believe and look for particular signs of these believers. The others are not believers. We should all call men to believe in Christ, but did they think that man would believe without God regenerating to make them believe or have faith? Probably not.
John 1:11-13 is even clearer of regeneration preceding faith as you hear that certain ones receive and others don’t. The ones who receive were given power by God to believe and get a birth from God and not out of his own will or others wills. I am wondering if you read that God gave them power to either then believe or not, but this isn’t understanding that some already received or not received and of those who received God gave them the power to be born by God to believe in Christ. Some receive the gospel some don’t (not just via words but spiritual ears hearing the gospel). Receive what? Just the power to either believe or not? That is a bad understanding of what is being said about God giving power to believe because he has born them of God to believe in Christ. Not just get them to a free will choice point.
Now John 3 is so rich with regeneration preceding faith that I wish I could just get you to stop focusing on the word believe that you have capitalized and put in double quotations and focus on the one whom we are told to believe in. Starting at the beginning of John 3 and a smart leader Nicodemus (way smarter than you and me) didn’t even understand what Jesus was telling him about being reborn to see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus was showing his Faith was wrongly placed in his works and not on Christ. How could he stop misplacing his faith? Jesus told him that it was not of man but of the water and the Spirit of God to blow into man to be born of the Spirit. This irked Nicodemus and all us men, but he answers us all in Romans 9:20 by saying who are you to talk back to God. I always like to ask people here that do we trust God to do right with me personally? This may point to a lack of trust in God and show us a faith in ourselves and our free will more. Should make us all stop and think is my faith misplaced? If it be misplaced we need to get on our knees now and pray to the only one who can fix our misplaced faith in myself.
I know you asked “how can you believe the gospel if you don’t have faith?” Both of us believe you can’t believe the gospel if you don’t have faith. But how will one believe if he doesn’t receive it from God such as John 3:27 is getting at?
You said that man’s faith didn’t totally vanish after the fall. You are right. They had faith in something other than God after the fall wouldn’t you say? Same as us. Our faith is in the wrong thing. It is misplaced because of our sinful nature. We are a slave to the wrong thing. John 8:33 ish and around there shows our way of thinking is similar to these Jews. They didn’t even realize they were not free. But Jesus tells them that when Jesus sets you free you are free indeed.
Your last part makes it sound like the unregenerate elect have something in them different from others prior to salvation. I don’t think this is biblical. Unless you can actually prove it through scriptures rightly interpreted, but I would push back probably in your interpretation as many verses say we were just like the rest of mankind but God showed mercy to us.
I don’t mean these words as anything other than love for a fellow seeker of God to ensure both of us rightly divide the word of God. I may be wrong about things and I want to lay my desires down to be selfishly right and learn rightly from God and others that know God so feel free to tell me where I’m mistaken. I won’t (I hope) get angered as I hope you also don’t at what I am saying.
I think RC is right in that regeneration precedes faith not only from the same scriptures you think teach faith precedes regeneration but also because my experience of salvation personally makes me believe it.
Luke 17:5-6 is Jesus telling the disciples that God will provide the faith they will need to do the things he planned for them when He commands it to be done. Down through verse 10 is explaining that. Christ will command it and they will do it not because of their faith but because of their faith in the one who is doing it. They are just Christ’s servants performing what Christ desires them to do.
Sorry this was so long. But I enjoyed going through these areas of scripture and exegeting them for you, me, and others who read this. God bless.
Curiously you quoted John 3:16. But what was Jesus talking about from verse 1 in the lead up to verse 16. The passage talks about what happens first leading to "whosoever believes."
@@boughtwithaprice9121, You made a very long reply... But lots of none sense... You said: ''''Did they understand it to be a water baptism or Christ’s baptism of the believer?''''=>>> How can the disciples of Jesus perform Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit... Please use a little bit of common sense...=>>> You also said: '''''So they were being told the procedure. Preach the gospel to all, baptize those who say they believe and look for particular signs of these believers.''''' .... Is what you said is really the procedure given to them by Jesus??? ... Jesus told them to preach the gospel and baptized those who believe... Of course they were the servant of God... They were anointed with Spiritual discernment to know who really believed....
@@signposts6189, Please elaborate what you want to prove.... Thanks....
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo "'Most assuredly I say to you, UNLESS one is BORN AGAIN he CANNOT SEE the kingdom of God.'
Nicodemus said to Him, 'HOW can a man be born when he is old?' Can he enter a second time in his mother's womb and be born?'
Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, UNLESS one is BORN of WATER and the SPIRIT, he CANNOT ENTER the kingdom of God of God. That which is born of flesh is flesh, and the which is BORN of SPIRIT is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it is goes. SO is EVERYONE who is BORN of the SPIRIT.'
(John 3:3-8 NKJV).
According to Jesus we're born of water and the Spirit. Notice that Christ does not mention faith as the reason for being born again. He tells Nicodemus how one is born again and ties the whole spiritual experience to water (i.e. God's word) and the Holy Spirit only. There's no mention of faith causing being born again. But we know faith is as a result of being born again because Jesus said, "Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." This "seeing" and "entering" of the kingdom of God is what faith is all about and only occurs as a result of being born again. One must first be born again in order to see (i.e. understand) and enter the kingdom of God. In order to believe we must first understand or see whatever it is we're believing. Therefore, RC is right: regeneration precedes faith.
Nonsense !...in fact, there is no biblical Regeneration prior to Baptism....(Titus 3:5, John 3:5)....
Sproul didn't provide a single Biblical verse...supporting "his position"
“NO ONE CAN COME TO ME”
You know why??
Because you were dead in your trespasses and sins
So dude is saying you can be born again without having faith?!? Nonsense. It is THROUGH faith that we are redeemed, not before faith. God gives the gift of salvation unconditionally, but surely man is under the condition of having faith in order to receive said gift.
The fact that you are calling Pastor RC Sproul “so dude” is already saying a lot about you. I would rather suggest you point to scripture that says something different or explain why the scriptures he referenced says something different.
@vdmerwejo I already did and said it's through faith we are saved. No where in Scripture will you find through regeneration you are saved. No faith = no salvation. You are not brought to life to have faith to be brought to life again.
Regeneration is the new birth and comes by faith. That's what the Bible teaches. Regenerated (Reborn)..
YOUR faith (absolute trust in Christ) has made you whole.
NOT...I made you whole so you could have faith.
According to the bible, a person is regenerated and declared righteous WHEN he believes. So how can a person be regenerated before he believes? Not possible. False teachings like this is what happens when the bible is twisted to fit a man-made false theology like Calvinism
That's an excellent question. The key term you use here is "before." Both Calvinists and Arminians agree that one cannot be regenerate without saving faith. Both agree that these are gifts from God.
However, the word PRECEDE here does not mean "before" in a chronological sense since you cannot have one without the other. It is not as though you are regenerate on August 15th and then believed on December 1st. No, you were born again and had saving faith at one time. It is not a chronological order. The video explains this. RC Sproul says it is "logical not temporal."
The order of salvation speaks instead of causality. Calvinists insist that you must be regenerate in order (to cause) to believe because if our own faith caused regeneration, this would be a regeneration through a mental assent -- or a good work. Instead we say that God sovereignly regenerates the sinner and faith PROCEEDS from the born-again experience.
@@JohnRogers-fj2if ok so then I guess where we are at odds is to what extent God grants a person saving faith and why. I believe we have a free will, otherwise God would have forced us to sin and choose evil. We chose to sin on our own. As a result, God gave us a second chance (Christ) to choose Him or to choose evil. My question would be, what influences God's decision to give saving faith to one person and not another? I believe we cannot come to faith without God's intervention in our lives drawing us to him, but to claim that God chooses to give faith to some and chooses others to reject him with no reason behind it? I don't see that in the scriptures. Besides, it is not faith that saves us, it is the object of our faith that saves us which is Christ. Faith is only how we are instructed by God to receive this salvation as long as it is in Christ alone. If someone gifts me a large sum of money and I accept it, does that mean I earned that money? Of course not. I did nothing at all to earn it, I only received it as a gift... but I also have the option to reject it. "Saving faith" is simply trusting that Christ did all the work necessary to save us. John 6:28: then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
The idea of "regeneration preceding faith" does more than just fly in the face of the history of modern evangelism. It flies in the face of clear scripture. Believe me when I say that modern evangelism has its problems: it certainly does have problems, but putting faith before regeneration is not one of them.
Correct. So many scriptures shows faith before salvation....how can they ignore the obvious order of salvation....
You cannot have faith unless your being regenerated by the Holy Spirit because faith is one of the fruit of the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit comes first to bring you to faith in Christ.
@@Beth-eb7nu Search the Scripture. There isn't a single verse that says that. There are however lots of places in the bible where faith is prerequisite to salvation.
@@Beth-eb7nu have those who have faith in Budaha been made alive?
@CHRON-GEN Which verse am I reading through eisegetical eyes?
Before I knew about Calvinism & Armenianism I unknowingly held an Armenian view until I was shown about the two trains of thought
. I've now changed to Calvinism it was hard at first but the more I thought about it the more it made sense to me. I don't have it makes a difference to your walk with God which doctrine you believe overall as long as you love the Lord with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself.
Paul Burgio thanks for the recommendation I'll give that a look.
Also check out. "Beyond the fundamentals"
@Sheep Dog Calvinism is a false gospel of works based salvation based upon gnostic philosphy--not very Biblical. Mr. White is decieved.
@Sheep Dog We can talk about philosophy if you really want to, but I'd rather talk about Scripture. What verse can a Calvinist quote that SPECIFICALLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY declares they are elect? My turn as a Bibleist--"Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I qualify as a whosoever. I believe. I have everlasting life. You see, my faith is in Jesus as revealed in scripture. A Calvinist has faith in election. How does a Calvinist KNOW they are elect? By man-centered feelings and good works. tuliP. They Persevere in good works therefore they think they must be saved. How does a Calvinist know if their good works are good enough? Sounds like man taking credit for his salvation instead of trusting God and the Scripture.
@Sheep Dog friend, I hope you carefully consider my question. How can a Calvinist be 100% sure they are elect. As for me, I know election is mainly Israel, specifically Jesus. Sometimes angels, rarely church age Christians. Can you explain the election of angels? I hope you diligently search the Scriptures and it us fruitful. Test what Augustine, Sproul, Washer, White, and MacArthur are teaching you.
GRACE comes FIRST, followed by REGENERATION and then FAITH!
What if he doesn’t have grace for me?
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
In whom ye also trusted, *after* that ye *heard* the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also *AFTER* that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Romans 5:2 KJV
By whom also we have access *by faith* INTO *this grace* wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved *THROUGH* faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Titus 3:5 KJV
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, [[Saved us? HOW?]]
⏬
*by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost* ;
So to summarize: HEAR the Gospel > BELIEVE the Gospel > Gain access to GRACE through that belief > SAVED *by* the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
it is not only illogical, it is anti-Scripture. I absolutely find it difficult to believe that so many people believe this drivel and heresy. He makes it up. I would be literally afraid to add to God's Holy Word like he does, or did since he's passed.
There is not one instance in the Scripture. However, the Holy Ghost has said, Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
You repent first, then believe. Matthew 21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Acts 2:34-39.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Through faith. The gift is Salvation, not the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word.
Leighton Flowers has several videos on this. And Mr. Flowers is much nicer than I am.
And again, to believe this you must believe that God sends babies who are not elect to hell. Because they are morally dead and can't believe. Therefore they are in hell now according to his false doctrine.
RC doesn’t realize that he inadvertently removed Christ from the salvation equation. Christ comes after salvation in his system. To be generous to our reformed people, I do think they are trying to highlight that Gods Spirit is the driving force behind all salvation, and with that, technically I agree. If God hadn’t made the first move, I’d have no hope. But since He did, now it’s my responsibility to respond and not harden my heart
Christ must be revealed in your heart by God.(2Cor.4:6).
You believe God!
NOT ABOUT GOD.
Abraham believed God...Rom.4:3
See also Matt.16:17,Gal.1:15,16
This is the one doctrine of those that hold reformed theology that believers will automatically get angry about based on their emotions and the way they've been traditionally taught in scripture. They truly believe Romans 10:9-10 but think that salvation automatically equates to being born again once you believe. The thinking goes like this; You hear the gospel and believe in Christ's death and resurrection based on your own reasoning/will, then God makes you spiritually born again once you're saved. At this point, the logical question is, Were you regenerated when you made the choice to believe Christ, and the answer is no. This means that you've trusted Christ in faith based on your will in your sinful nature. This is often referred to as being "in the flesh."
Romans 8:5-8 says, "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh can't please God." These verses speak of those "in the flesh" who have a carnal mind that is actually of death, that is hostile against God, and is not subject to the law of God. For these reasons, the person in the flesh can't please God at all. And many will say this verse is talking about the struggling Christian who may act out in the flesh, but Romans 8:9 begins with the conjunction "But" and then says "Ye (this pronoun speaks of believers) are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit." The contrast is made to show believers and unbelievers. Unbelievers can't please God by anything derived from their carnal mind, which is hostile against God. And since Hebrews 11:6 tells us it is impossible to please God without faith, then how can we please God with faith that is derived from a carnal mind, which Romans 8:8 says anyone in the flesh (due to this mind) can't please God. We would need a new heart and a new life from being dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1).
Notice Titus 3:5 says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost." Notice our salvation is by washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit? It is by God's mercy (which lines up with Romans 9:18). Again, the objection would be that we believe first, then we are regenerated. But any fleshly decision to believe would be by our own will to bring regeneration flies in the face of Romans 8:5-8 and John 1:12-13, which says, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Notice that we do "receive" and "believe," but this rebirth can't be initiated by our "decision" because the very next verse says we are born not of the will of flesh and man. We can't say we trusted in Christ of our own will and then He made me born again because then our regeneration can only happen by the will of man. It makes John 1:13 a lie.
Finally, for all those that quote verses that say God died for all men or is the Savior of all men, you have to have two interpretations. The first is, all means every single person. The second means, all men without distinction. If it is the first, then taking those verses on face value, it means all are saved. If the second, then it means God saves all types of people no matter their status, language, gender, or cultural background. The first means all without exception, which means all would be saved. Yet that flies in the face of people being judged to eternal damnation (Revelation 20:11-15). And if it means it is a possible salvation, that adds the "possible" to the "died for all." Taken at face value in the first example, "all men" or "all" would mean "all," which means all would be saved. You can't say "all men are saved unless they don't choose Christ by their fleshly reasoning then they go to hell" because then Christ paid the price for everyone's sin, even the sin of unbelief, which means Christ took the wrath for them on the cross then God poured His wrath on them again after they died (Hebrews 9:27). So we either have a universal atonement or a possible atonement based on the decision of sinful man or we have God moving in a way that no one can tell when it comes and goes to bring someone born of the Spirit (John 3:8) so that they are given the ability to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. In fact, repentance is granted/given by God (Acts 5:31, 11:18, and 2 Timothy 2:25). If we don't think God is the God of salvation from beginning to end, then our "participation" to have God save us based on our own "decision" would make the ones who believe smarter and more aware in their reasoning then those that don't. This is the reason Ephesians 2:8-9 says it is all a gift of God (salvation by grace through faith), not of any works of man or we would boast. I know this doctrine is hard to swallow (I rejected it as well), but careful study of scripture shows the opposite has much more problems; it elevates the decision of man and takes away attributes of God, which means God is no longer God.
Eric Smith
Wrong again fiend.
Paul speaks of when he was first introduced to the law....
Rom 7: 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
He then speaks of himself whilst being under the law of sin and death.....
Rom 7: 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 ¶ I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
He then speaks of how Christ set him free from the law of sin and death.....
Rom 8: 1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
He then goes on to say how no one can please God through the law whilst in the flesh......
Rom 8: 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is 👉🏻not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.👈🏻
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
You have to read it in its context friend.
God bless
@@evanu6579 We've already had numerous back and forth about many of these scriptures. I've taken the time to show through scripture why these verses say what they say. I understand you disagree, but you haven't yet shown me a valid interpretation of many of these verses. I check everything against scripture (Acts 17:11, 2 Timothy 2:15) and I prayerfully look at all in context.
For instance, your Romans 8:1-8 verses neglect to to take in account 8:9 which says, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This whole verse gives the contrast based on the conjunction "but." After the "but" you have the truth that "ye" (this pronoun for believers addressed in the epistle and to us today) "are not in the flesh" as compared to those in 8:5-8. Why? Because we are "in the Spirit," indicating that we are in Christ. He emphasizes this at the end of the verse by saying "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." This includes those "in the flesh" in verses 5-8. I agree that no one can please God through the law while in the flesh, but that means every unsaved person because if you don't know Christ, you are trying to justify yourself by the deeds of the law regardless if you know this or not. Romans 3:9-20 talks about this, and 3:19-20 emphasizes that point.
There's no way you can make Romans 8:5-8 not apply to unsaved people. If it were just about Christians and their struggles in the flesh, then it means they don't please God in the flesh, but unsaved people do? That's contradictory. So, the reason I took the time to explain this is it is easy to say, "You have to read it in its context friend," yet you consistently take verses out of context in your replies but don't even realize it (or you do and you just go with whatever you think the Bible says instead of what it says). So while I appreciate you taking the time to comment, your interpretations and explanations have never convinced me because the context, content, and grammar never dictates it. But you can assert whatever pleases you, but I stand unconvinced, so don't be insulted if you reply back and I ignore it because it's the same ole same ole to me.
Eric Smith
I didn’t claim that it wasn’t about the unregenerate. It’s the unregenerate trying to please God through the law. That would pertain mostly to Jews who are striving to work for salvation.....
Rom 9: 30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
That doesn’t mean that the unregenerate can’t do some things that are pleasing to God......
1kin 21: 27 ¶ And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly.
28 ¶ And the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying,
29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
2Kin 10: 30 And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel.
31 But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the LORD God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin.
Jer 34: 15 And ye were now turned, and had done right in my sight, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbour; and ye had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name:
16 But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom ye had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.
None of these were ever saved and none of them pleases God through the law. They did do acts that God approved of and He said so.
So I stand by what I said about Romans 8. It’s in reference to law keeping.
God bless
Good point bro.
Notice that no scriptures offered saying that regeneration precedes faith. This is nonsense from a systematic which is trying to force the scriptures to suit . No one could possibly come to the conclusion the regeneration precedes faith from simply reading the bible .
He offered John 3 to prove his point.