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Does Anyone Care About Men's Mental Health? - Matt Rudd
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2024
- Matt Rudd is Deputy Editor at The Sunday Times Magazine and an author.
Men between the ages of 45 and 49 are at the highest risk of attempting to take their own life. In a world filled with accusations of patriarchal overreach, it seems odd that men are suffering so much with their mental health. It's not good for them, or their wives, or their children. Matt researched men of all ages to work out why men are unhappy and what we can do about it.
Expect to learn why your 40's might be the weirdest period of your life, why men would rather be a workaholic than face their internal fears, the challenges with the male denial of mental health problems, why men feel indulgent shame if they're sad, why boys are trained to be competitive in school, how to tell if you're genuinely getting old and much more...
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#mentalhealth #men #depression
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00:00 Intro
00:26 Getting Through Adult Life
11:36 Men’s Mental Health
15:45 Becoming Old
21:54 The Broken Patriarchy
30:22 Positive Effects of Being Content
39:22 Education’s Role in Developing Men
44:16 Man’s Relationship with Technology
55:01 Common Traits of Successful Men
1:09:40 Where to Find Matt
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Hello cult members. Here's the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:26 Getting Through Adult Life
11:36 Men’s Mental Health
15:45 Becoming Old
21:54 The Broken Patriarchy
30:22 Positivite Effects of Being Content
39:22 Education’s Role in Developing Men
44:16 Man’s Relationship with Technology
55:01 Common Traits of Successful Men
1:09:40 Where to Find Matt
Just gonna put this out there... As someone who's going through a divorce right now, in one of the states wherein the preferred form of custody between two parents splitting up is 50/50, I'm having to put up with my admissions of depressed thought processes to my doctors being used against me. In any other place in life, using my disability as a method to oppress me from my natural rights as a parent, would be considered a human civil rights violation. Yet, my wife, through means of intentionally lying, is allowed to manipulatively gain access to my medical records and selectively present them to the court, so as to assassinate my character and label me an unfit father. Will I fight it? YES! Will I try to get her to admit, on the stand, that her telling the court I wasn't seeking treatment was a lie? YUP! So I have a defense, and I'm not here to seek help with that.... What I am here to do, is to point out that if I don't get the help by seeking mental health treatment, then my mind degrades and I go down a rabbit hole of bad decisions, because I don't learn the coping skills to deal with the emotional mechanisms of say, triggered trauma responses. Which will finally lead to me becoming homeless, or worse, taking my own life. Yet, on the opposite side of the spectrum... After having spent more than 3 and a half years in therapy, my wife makes the false accusation that I'd never sought any treatment so as to prevent me from seeing my daughter, and in the process of having to prove her wrong, I've now opened myself up to having my medical records, and mental stability, used against me.
So in short? I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't... So what's the point of wasting the time in the first place, if we're just going to design a legal system that flat out degrades the value of hard work and individualized healing, in favor of instant gratification and commodified relationships.
@@forgottenfuryan -- Yaaaa... Doesn't prosecute perjury, but neither does criminal court that often either. HOWEVER, the point isn't to even prosecute for perjury, but rather to have evidence dismissed on the grounds of intentional perjury with admission of lie. I have written admission from her, post separation, but prior to filing for divorce of her acknowledgement that I was in the middle of seeking treatment. All I have to do is get her on the stand... Once that's done, all medical records will be dismissed as evidence against me. They get rid of the presumption of innocence, in order to protect the child. However, if intentionally lying can be shown, then the evidence gathered under the action of perjury can be dismissed from the case. The presumption of innocence, and warrantless investigation are two entirely different things in the court of law.
What will happen now on that front, is I've gathered the evidence for what I believe to be enough for criminal charges to be filed. I'll present the evidence to my attorney, and if he believes there is enough, then I will file a criminal complaint to the DA and present all of the evidence. When that happens, if the DA believes there is enough evidence to pursue conviction, then they will petition the court to file criminal charges. At which point, if that happens, which is likely at that point, then they will issue an arrest warrant, and I will be allowed to cite those as criminal charges being filed against her by the District Attorney as evidence of being an unfit mother. To be honest, I don't even want it to get to that point, I think we should both be a part of our daughter's life, but the lying and fighting the entire way through has shown me that this is NOT what she wants, nor has ever wanted. So I will fight just as dirty, if not more-so, than she does...
@@forgottenfuryan -- I live in one of the 2 states that are actually beginning to acknowledge Father's rights... As well, I'm HOPING that I can get it to play positively on my behalf that my judge previously resided over the Veteran's Court system here in Arkansas, and I'm a Veteran myself.
I'd only hope that Chris might read this, and realize that his speaking about this simply acts as a pillar of emotional support for men whom often feel isolated on an institutional level, which in turn invokes a level of paranoia that you begin to question yourself. That spiral of paranoia is the exact psychological path to that dark statement of "There's no way out of this except to end it." -- However, knowing there are others out there who've experienced this same bullshit can give you strength to revel in that darkness and bend the anger, and depression, that comes from that pit of despair into a focused sense of inspiration and dedicated journey to purpose, so as to find renewed hope. But knowing my luck? I'm gonna get crushed! LOL! We'll see in time!! Hope for the best, prep for the worst.
@@forgottenfuryan -- The admission will not be signed under duress... It'll happen on the stand, with her admission coming through acknowledgement of her written statement to me via previous statements made with text/app -- Multiple sources. In fact, the duress was applied to me in that given situation, when her written statement was provided. (She acknowledged that I was getting help, but that the VA *During Christmas/New Years Holiday Season* was not moving fast enough for her expectations. Meaning, she knew I was seeking treatment, placing herself in direct contradiction to her written, and signed, statement to DHS and the Court, that I had never sought treatment.) IDK How she'd claim she was under duress, when she filed for Divorce nearly 2 months after we'd split and we'd already spent as long changing out custody from week to week. Then suddenly, she files for Divorce out of no-where after acknowledging that I'd already started treatment? IDK - It's NOT played out in court yet, so there's always a chance of being blindsided or things not working as expected, but we'll see... I'm prepping for the worst, while hoping for the best, but I most definitely won't go down without a fight.
@@forgottenfuryan You're probably right... We'll see though... All I can do is remain calm and methodical in this entire ordeal. As long as I remain as such, then I am certain I can make it through this.
As a man, 80% of the people in your life don't want to hear about your problems, and 20% of the people are glad you have them.
That is why MGTOW...
@@SamOwen55 whaaa! Lol. Who are these women?
@@stevearcher6100 word!
@L Hunter state your source. Pretty Pretty please...
wow .. i need to remember this comment... This is my experience as well
I’m a yoga teacher and men are my favorite students. You hold the world up on your shoulders and I have such empathy for what you do for us women and society as a whole.
What a refreshingly empathetic response. Thank you for recognizing that men (in general) do the heavy lifting that keeps the nation and economy afloat.
@@WhizzingFish12 A few men do the hard jobs. Other men are just as dependent on them as women are.
I work in Pest Control and making my customers happy and seeing their family happy means more to me than making a bunch of money. I was just telling my girlfriend that I no longer want to work for this company because it is now just about money and not building a better community through hard work and meeting new faces. You can make great money and make life long relationships with clients just by being a honest hard working person. I hope that us men fight to keep that alive.
Working hard never made much since when I was on drugs in my twenties but I once I started working really hard I became happier and my clients really liked me. It became this high of making customers happy and it was a great feeling. They always wave and yell at me in stores and on the street. It feels so good as a man to feel like your life has a purpose in your community.
Fair point
@@Opal5674 - a few men. does that include all the ones that plunge your shitters, transform you landscape into a piece of art to your liking. get up on a drop of a dime at 1 am and rush out to reconnect your electric, 40 feet up a ladder in the middle of storms. the ones that are up on your roof, pound in its shingles. the ones out on the side of the street, installing your fiber wire, or the ones up in 60 foot booms, clearing the limbs off and away from you power lines. the ones that rush into harms way to pull you out of wrecked vehicles, fire fighters, police men, ambulance
or are you the few you talking about, are the ones heavily invested into wall street, running manufacturing operations in third world counties, based out of California. or the ones hitting 200K in silicon valley, making sure you have your daily social media fix?
or do you mean the flooding attack on american born men of migrants ripping their job opportunities off of them, since your electors deem the need for votes, out ways giving authentic american born raised men, prideful hard working jobs, inwhich they call them men deplorables, rightwing wack jobs, hill billies. idiots. loosers ect ect ect. not worty of a family producing salary....if they do accept and work them jobs that they allow migrants to gobble up. that ends up translating into american women thinking the only real men, are the ones back on wall street. in the lawyer blood money relm, or over in Cali, running bis over seas, filling his pockets up with slave like labor profits. or the oh so real man that uses the house market and crumbling it, to his avantage??
what few men are you actually referring to?
cause im just that landscaper that made your place, fit for a magazine shoot. photo ready for when you sell it, its gets you 80% gains. you know. that guy with a dirty sweaty shirt on. that idiot, that deplorable, the not worth the american dream nor an american woman with a family to be proud of. as you could of guessed by now...im finding your comment insulting to men in general.
and them other men you refer to....
YEAH THATS YOUR FUCKING END PRODUCT......ARE YOU FUCKING HAPPY NOW?????
My son told me they discussed International Women's Day and he asked his male teacher why they didn't discuss International Men's Day... his teacher said that they don't because women were oppressed historically... his teacher talked about the gender wage gap, etc. I told my son that all men and he too add value to society and his issues matter too. It's so sad that men's issues are dismissed.
"Women were historically oppressed" fair enough. What about every war, every terrible job, who did that fall on? the coddled men or your avg bloke? You need to teach your man society is once again scapegoating the avg man, teach him men like him are more valuable than the Wall ST thugs who are ruling the federal reserve and the politicians for hire and their main stream media. Teach him the goods!
Or give him good books to read like 'the economic hitmen' or books like that. Start him early because it makes no sense to coddle children and shade them from reality. Teach him what's really going on instead of him internalizing it because i swear to you, you'll have a crisis on your hands in a few years.
@@neoreign You're absolutely correct. After that conversation it's a personal mission to understand the issues men face so he feels valued as a boy/man. We've talked about war, especially with the Ukranian men being forced to stay behind while women/children get to leave. It seems like a constant battle to need to highlight men's contribution to society... there's no need to push men down to bring women "up."
Schools need to STOP teaching ideologies and stick the the facts.
Your son is a lucky young man to have a loving, intelligent mother like yourself. Good job, mom!
Take care 💚💜💗
That wage gap is at it again.
@@susandanielsson6857 Both genders are oppressed by wall street thugs and banking cartel that centralized their powers through "globalization" which is code word for THIEVERY of the middle class. That's big picture summarized.
All this culture/gender/religion wars are distraction tactics by elites of extreme wealthy.
Ukraine= Natural gas and oil, everything else is smoke and mirrors. They don't give 2 fks about Ukraine, they're fighting over who controls its natural resources.
Either way, you're doing great, you're learning and sharing. Just don't let your child be taught by people who want himm to feel like a periah just because of what's in between his legs.
I operate my own little personal training business, and I might as well double as a counselor for the vast majority of men. While we lift, a lot of the pain comes out and they finally get to vent about everything that they normally keep pent up - it's insane how broken our men are and infuriating how no one seems to care at best or thinks they deserve it at worst.
Men aren't inherently valued as women are. If you are not a successful use and utility object to others than what use are you?..a man as a full human being and not a machine is useless. Men aren't allowed to have problems. No one wants a broken machine.
I have a small massage therapist business. I do deep tissue so most of my clients are male athletes. I spend as much time counseling as I do tissue manipulation. (My previous experience was in case management.) I'm glad you're out there, friend, counseling in the wild. It's needed.
Keep doing what you doing man, one more fighting the good fight ! Respect !
I’ve been saying for many years that men have it harder. You’ve been taught not to cry or show emotion, or take time for yourselves because you’ll be seen as weak. It’s such a deeply embedded program that it’s completely unconscious. The pressure to be successful, a provider, protector and then be demonized for it…no wonder it’s failing the masses. You have my support, and I’m happy to hear there’s an opening. I see it with mens groups, I’m glad you’re finding each other. ✌🏼🌿
@Nodge Sinisborat Maybe stop blaming women for everything. Like geez. You act like men never told their kids to man up when he showed any emotions. It was men's fear of sons turning gay that fueled some of this. Then women would say let the little boy show some emotion and men would accuse her of over mothering turning kid soft.
As a male therapist, it's great to see conversations like this. Men are in a lot of pain and modern therapy has done very little to address it. Things are changing, but I think going outside conventional support systems is understandable for many.
I have a question, and it's only for my own curious mind. Politically, are you left-leaning?
Thanks Doc. Male therapists are getting harder to find.
We're too focused on women and their needs. Probably the same with children too.
I'm glad that i don't feel like someone who needs therapy, because i feel like i work through it myself for the most part. I would hate to waste money on a professional only to discover that their own bias that they're unaware of prevents them from helping me at all. Sometimes I'm sad, sometimes I'm happy. Most times I'm fine.
My focus in life is simply financial stability and taking care of my family around me. I understand that most of the world will never care about me. Only the few who are close to me will.
Mental pain are for the weak and women. Talking about issues is what women do, doing something about it is what men does.
The answer to your title is: no. I see 90% of young men being left out of the dating market because they don't have 10/10 looks, I see fewer and fewer men being pushed to succeed in education, I see rampant promotion of all things female (mostly their bad tendencies), and rampant disrespect of anything male as "toxic." Ironically this also hurts women in our society. We should be very concerned about these trends but no one with any power cares.
Well said and I'd add even 10/10 Model level looks Men still don't get any initiative shown to them from Women, they must still "Do the hunting" so to speak. Women are perfectly programmed to hang back in judgement and take their pick of the litter without lifting a finger because "It's the Mans job to do everything" "It's the women's job just to look pretty" is the society we live in. By the time Men get their "Dating power" (Post 35) the damage has already been done, their self respect and esteem is ruined and they're resentful beyond measure.
@@adammada511 It's not the woman's job to look pretty. Her job is just to exist. Women are praised and valued just for existing regardless of their looks.
@@roderickcortez138 Yeah you're right, it's just that's the only effort I see many of them putting in. They attempt to look pretty through the deception of make up, like dressing up a lemon car to hide its faults right before selling it. But yeah they're praised as queens just for existing and it's always the Mans fault every time.
The rise of prostitution implies the rise of mercenaries.
Find a mercenary group.
@@hikelfin
Exceptions are not the rule.
I’m in my early 40s, male, and I am simply burnt out and exhausted with life. I’m not in danger of hurting myself. I find I keep telling myself “in 6 months I can breath;” but it doesn’t happen. With a great family and commitments; I know I can’t break or quit. So I push on. There may be a light at the end of the tunnel; but sometimes you just get sick of the fucking tunnel.
Oh no, this sounds terrible. Do you drink? Do you have a spiritual practice? Do you practice "weeding the garden of your mind?" Do you give thanks at meal times? I ask these questions only assuming you are able to take good care of your body and allow yourself enough rest and that the problem is existential.
You are one of the biggest creators of your own state of mind. External factors effect you sometimes but in the day to day you create yourself and your spirit. Paint a daily picture of yourself in your minds eye with the colors of positive outlook, faith in yourself, forgivingness, generosity, and lovingness. Move away from fear and towards love and forgiveness. Pluck thee weeds of resentment from your mind and plant admiration and appreciation in their place. All this is a constant effort. But the effort feels good. 40+ is difficult for many men. I hope you win.
As someone who grew up as the oldest in a military family I can attest to the overall programming a male can go through during childhood/ early teens. It's ridiculous that we're treated like this and then shunned when we eventually break. Society then wonders why some of us turn into complete monsters..I strongly believe men aren't born fucked up. Society does it and then we eventually push back when we've had enough.
I couldn’t agree more. As a psychologist by training, it’s abundantly clear to me that there is a bias and hence discrimination in how boys/men are treated from childhood onward. From an evolutionary perspective this is probably cause society needs is to be tough, strong and to be able to overcome setbacks. But the flip side is that there’s too much of that for some men and that this results in a lack of support mechanisms (especially in highly individualist cultures where the family doesn’t serve as a support mechanism as much as it does in traditional societies), which does cause great harm to men and does cause some men in turn to harm society.
Oldest of 6 and your words are an echo of my thoughts. Parents did best they could but the immense weight of everything is brutally destructive. Good to know it’s more of us than we think.
i am a muay thai coach and most of my work is being a bigger brother my students never had.
Some are born that way, but I would wager that the vast majority are society's creation.
@PGH Engineer That stat can't be extrapolated to the entire male population, which is what I'm referring to. Criminal activity is not a guaranteed attribute of an unwell male individual.
How can men be incentavised to build and maintain a society that has a pathological view of them.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
They can't
@@latt.qcd9221 love Peterson, but he is not an average guy in society. He is rich and influential, so he is detached from the situation on the ground. When I was young, men were respected for all they do for society, but that has all but been stamped out. I am all for men sacrificing if they are respected for it.
@@latt.qcd9221 that dragon analogy is a great way of expressing the problem, thanks
This is true. It’s not right.
A huge problem to my mind is the current mental health push is funded by corporate/government interests who caused much of the current mental health crisis, so I consider it futile to seek help from providers who won’t bite the hand that feeds them.
I wish it was that simple. Treating mental health problems is incredibly difficult, time consuming and requires a lot of work on the part of the patient. Unfortunately most patient's don't want to do the work, and most providers don't want to spend the time to discuss it. So they recommend an antidepressant, and it's quick and easy for both. The only problem is it doesn't really work.
Also... Some of modern anxiety in the west is funded through Russia and their social media trolls, currently working overtime in the alternative media pushing propaganda. They funded a lot of shady environmental groups, plus gender destabilisation is part of the goal. All this adds to anxiety, that leads to depression... And yes you have the forces you mentioned too, we are all under Psy op attack, the attack on masculinity is a part of that. The other poster is claiming feminism is the enemy!... don't think feminism is the demon here, the goal of feminism isn't to destroy men!... It's to support women.
Since the 90's psychiatrists have been prescribing drugs like Zoloft like crazy. I have to be on that crap for life now because I tried going off and my brain chemistry literally has been altered by being on it so long. Just all about $$$. All that doctors care about is going home and watching porn on their devices.
They just want productive workers. They aren't interested in your actual mental health. They want you just functional enough to be profitable.
most "mental health" problems are not caused by any deficiency in a person, but the deficiency in a society. The human brain has not evolved to be happy and rewarded when we are slaving away 9-5 for a corporation which doesn't care about you, and then you go home to either no one, completely lonely, or a family that doesn't care about you except for what you can provide.
Matt’s last message at the end - “just leave me alone, deal with your own problems.” That’s a real vibe when you pass a certain age lol
Brilliant interview as always, Chris!
I really loved when he said that hahah! And I agree re that being a vibe when you get older.
My GP did the same thing, now I really resent this "men don't ask for help because they think they have to man up" rhetoric - because everything I've been told in response to asking for help is some flavour of "man up". Men aren't killing themselves because they don't open up - it's because people don't care when they do.
It's not even just that they don't care; they are hostile to the idea that men have problems.
@@unnecessaryapostrophe4047 Yeah I think you're right there.
@@unnecessaryapostrophe4047 to be fair dude, OTHER GUYS contribute to this horse shit 😂😂😂 we literally are slaves to women, at least, we have been the last 50 or so years 😂😂😂
@L Hunter bro, have you looked at early american history? The word *BROTHERHOOD* is literally everywhere.
Men dropped the goddamn ball bro.....I ain't mad.....I'm just lettin dudes know "We Gotta Pick It Back Up" 😂
@@unnecessaryapostrophe4047 Makes perfect sense to me. If you have problems then what type of use and utility object do you make to women, children and society? Who validates a broken machine as worthy?
Women carry inherent value because they are both the reproductive bottleneck and are the resource of reproduction. It's all hind brain animal behavior, something we don't seem to have the higher faculties to trancend apparently.
I had a really bad breakup in 2015 got cheated on and played for a fool by a 7yrs girlfriend…I became suicidal and extremely depressed because in my mind I had failed as a man…one day I decided it was enough and I was going to self-delete…I had a conversation with a colleague on Facebook and he figured out my plans and he called the cops on me…when they finally found me in my car ( I was working deliveries for Amazon before they had their own services) they actually treated me like I was a criminal while they handcuffed me…it was so humiliating…anyways they took me to a mental health institution where I waited hours before someone came to talk to me..when they did, I spent 10 minutes in the doctor’s office, he gave me a pamphlet and sent me on my way…
Did your (friend) ever discuss things with you? Have you been able to relate with another guy about what you were going through?
That is not nice from the police how are you now sir?
Cops are pathetic for the most part when it comes to mental health also we care more about stupid football than peoples mental well being
Wow... I'm at a loss of words at the failure of every person in those steps. Glad you made it through.
This is why you can't tell anyone anything.
Didn't say if you ever said anything to them again but I have my doubts and it's not like they seemed that interested in the actual issue anyway
I had clinical depression in my mid-40s, triggered through mid-life doldrums exactly as Matt described at the start. It came with a huge sense of guilt because, ultimately, I live quite a charmed life compared to many. I think there is a massive misalignment between modern success criteria and actually what men need spiritually and innately. We need to rethink how to educate our children (male and female) about finding the right path.
We need a fight. We need to be continually challenged and wrestle order back out of chaos. That's when we feel the best.
Sometimes, having solved all our problems is the problem itself. And so the next thing to do is take on more things that need fixing.
Children are taught these days that their sexuality is all that matters. It's so damn sad seeing people mistreat children, ruining their lives by making them focus on the dumbest shit, that will never end up helping them at anything in the end, leading to self neglect in important emotional and spiritual areas as you said, leading do depression, misery, and higher suicide rates! Yay, thanks society!
@Lisa Fenwick you should look up what the wall means....
I’ve had an easy life myself and quite frankly the easy life is fairly miserable. It’s like being a pet
@@GDKLockout felt that hard. Like that episode of that 70’s show when Red (the dad) gets layed off and all of a sudden starts finding things to “fix” around the house that don’t really need to be fixed and he ends up becoming a burden on the family. As soon as you start fixing the big stuff, you’ll go after little pointless things that you make excuses need to be fixed
My misery was in my 40's. I'd climbed the ladder, Finance Director. But having got there it took over my life. I'd be awake at 4am planning my day, constant juggling of tasks, time, people. I'd be in the office at 7:30, leave at 6ish, often attend corporate evenings and weekends, work through the night with my team at year end to meet immovable deadlines.
Then my wife became bipolar...it all started to unravel.
I resigned, struggled to support my wife for the next 12 years but ended up having to divorce her.
Now, in my 60's, I'm achieving happiness. Less stress, I've stopped excessive drinking, building back hobbies, travel, health.
I'm much poorer financially but richer in time and peace of mind.
I'm 39... I've been living with the "what next?" question hanging over me for a few years now. I'm coming to the peak of my current career, and have no real plans for the future... Just hearing that it's normal, and most men do the same is a bit reassuring.
All this talk about Men's midlife crises reminded me of Hermann Hesse's *_Steppenwolf_* which is about the internal musings of Harry Haller thinking about committing suicide upon turning 50. It's a far more enjoyable and enlightening book than I am making it sound like here; I read it at 17, and, being autistic but not knowing it then, I credit this book with literally saving my life. Hesse took therapy with Carl Jung and it shows. The lesson I take from the book today is about self-acceptance,.. even about parts of oneself that are genuinely unattractive in and of themselves. That,.. and the essential role of humor,.. not just in finding enlightenment, but in finding life bearable at all. As our intellect has thrown Humanity out of Paradise, our Humor may yet make us whole again.
*_Every age, every culture, every custom and tradition has its own character, its own weakness and its own strength, it beauties and ugliness; accepts certain sufferings as matters of course, puts up patiently with certain evils. Human life is reduced to real suffering, to hell, only when two ages, two cultures and religions overlap... Now there are times when a whole generation is caught in this way between two ages, two modes of life, with the consequence that it loses all power to understand itself and has no standard, no security, no simple acquiescence. Naturally, every one does not feel this equally strongly._*
~ Hermann Hesse, _Steppenwolf_
*_How absurd these words are, such as beast and beast of prey. One should not speak of animals in that way. They may be terrible sometimes, but they're much more right than men...They're never in any embarrassment. They always know what to do and how to behave themselves. They don't flatter and they don't intrude. They don't pretend. They are as they are, like stones or flowers or stars in the sky._*
~ Hermann Hesse, _Steppenwolf_
*_Now true humor begins when a man ceases to take himself seriously._*
~ Hermann Hesse, _Steppenwolf_
Thanks for this, I'm going to check this book out
One of the best books I've ever read. Narcissus and Goldmund is a lesser known book but also fascinating.
“To call it a midlife crisis overly simplifies a man’s decision to re to reevaluate his life”
Colin Brian James
@@colinjames7569 Really? How so? The term _midlife crisis_ would seem to me to be a near perfect description of what _reevaluate one's life_ could possible be?! Have you read the book? I am not trying to be mean,.. simply to understand your meaning.
@@martyc9997 *_Narcissus and Goldmund_* is certainly among Hermann Hesse's most beautiful books to read.
I had a "conversation" with my 10 year old the other day on how she feels that she should get a cell phone for her 11th birthday. My stance on it has always been, when she is old enough to pay for it herself, then she can have a phone. Somewhere around age 16, when she can get a job. To her it is a status thing. The school she goes to has students in it that have had an Apple phone since kindergarten! Yet, my husband and I scrape amd save every month to keep them in that school for a better education, not for the status.
My point is, the need to develop a status mentality starts at a young age. I believe due to the abundance of information available to our youth, and their internal nature to "fit in" with their tribe.
I understand her WANT, but I'm here to provide her with what she needs. Saving and earning a phone will help her appreciate it and take care of it more than if it is handed to her, in my opinion. I want to give my eldest daughter (and my 2 other children), everything they desire, but as a parent it is my job to teach them responsibility, hard work and sense of self that is developed outside of material possessions.
You're doing an infinitely better job at parenting than ANY of them buying an electronic screen to sit their kids in front of 24/7 so they don't need to actually parent. Those kids will grow up to be deficient in some way. Where as your child will look back someday and feel grateful for the restraint and love you showed them growing up, even when it wasn't what they wanted, but what they needed. Keep up the amazing work
This is admirable. But the 13 year old boy in me wanna yell fascist in your face. As an adult (I'm 33) I know that you're doing the right thing, but if I were your child, I'd hate you for it.. Being a responsible parent isn't easy huh?
@@JeffCaplan313 😆 I'm trying NOT to raise any Kardashians or "Karen's."
Do not feel bad for it. You are the parent and it is your decision/responsibility to choose what is right. My son is almost 11 and for peace of mind I bought him a flip phone (call/text). I told them both that I do not want any social media for them until they reach 18. Parenting is hard sometimes, but it takes work to raise kids properly.
@@JeffCaplan313 Oof, that's a case of, I believe bullshit, so others must believe bullshit. Status doesn't mean shit, it's only what you put into it. To me, being a good person and living by the will of God is the only status that matters. You're advocating for people to care only about what brings high status? Wealth, power, influence? All things that corrupt, and have turned many good people into degenerates as far as their morals and ethics go. Not a good life in my opinion, so don't talk about it like it's fact buddy :)
People should return to what the real priorities in life are, you're going down a popular, yet still wrong, path in life living like status is the be all end all. It especially hurts women when that's what they focus on, how many amazing guys and happy lifetimes they'll pass by because they don't have the "status" they want. Silly human ego. The ego deserves to be dominated, and controlled by the person, not to be enslaved by it.
Sorry Jeff, this whole comment was a misunderstanding, but I'll leave it up to serve as a reminder, of the message, and the overreaction. I was still waking up this morning 😓
I would desperately like to see a therapist, but there are two things stopping me:
1) Mandated reporting and red flag laws
2) The clear ideological drive of almost every single therapist, psychologist, and psychiatrist I've encountered
I suppose my suffering is a good thing to these people. If I weren't so problematic, I'd be entitled to wellness, right?
Ideological drive? What do you even mean?
@@gibraltar0553 They are driven by ideology. Their ideology is leftist and feminist.
Get a dog, talk to that, helps just as much! You don't need your feelings analyzed by some monkey.
@@gibraltar0553 I think he means that they have agendas, a certain world view and so on, with men, masculinity and so on. Mostly as therapists tend to be female and the educational system is very left-leaning also, particularly in humanities and therapy fields.
I dunno. I've been to a couple different therapists. Frankly, I think they were more screwed up than I am. And, on top of that, they didn't help me one iota. But I agree, that mandated reporting/red flag laws thing is not helpful. It just leads people to say, 'hey, nope, nothing to see here, no suicidal thoughts from me, all is well.'
This is such an essential conversation for men to have. To help us realise how similar we all are. Thank you.
Married at the age of 32, I thought I pretty much knew how the rest of my life was going to pan out. Widowed at the age of 42, the long term view I held simply didn't exist anymore.
I picked myself up and got myself back together and climbed back into my career. But that too began to erode when our division was downsized to 30%. Then the pandemic hit and that started a period of feeling extremely isolated and socially cut off. I was single and living alone, and working 15ft from where I slept.
Then we were sold to another company. The new company was based 185 miles away. Even if things did go back to 'normal' I was never commuting to work and socially interacting with colleagues in the same space as I used to.
Add to that the fact that the new company were only really interested in the bottom line, didn't really care much about the people they had 'bought' just so long as their hours were billable ... So I quit.
Single and alone and jobless in a pandemic. Yet grateful to not have dependent young children and the pressure of raising them in such a restrictive environment. I may have drank a few more beers than usual for a while.
Fortunately, mindfulness and mental health is something I've taken a personal interest in for a long time. Without a focus on 'Now' and meditation, I might have been lost to the immense pressure of seven years of personal challenges.
Now aged 48, I now have a career change and a job I very much enjoy. A great team, and (despite the challenges in eastern Europe) a brighter outlook on the future. But I'm one of the lucky ones. There are many still facing far greater challenges than I am. For this, I am both grateful and feeling guilty I can not help others more.
So yeah, I consider I've gotten off lightly compared to those with young families and crippling debts. Retail and Leisure workers have had an awful time of it, and now fuel and food prices are climbing and setting new records almost daily. As the traditional provider, Men's health has been under assault for some time now. With no sign of the situation changing in the short to medium term.
I don't have an answer, but I do know that suicide, as a permanent solution to a transient problem, is not the answer.
Hang on in there. Things will get better, and we will look back on these times proud of the stronger/wiser/more forgiving person they turned us into.
Well done for keeping going and pulling yourself out of the quagmire 😏
I appreciate your thoughtful response and sharing your experiences. This is vital and will help many men.
I hope sharing your experience will help many, many others to push through hard times, it can't have been an easy thing to share ❤️
Well said. I hope guys take the time to read this. I have been on suicide watch with all my dude friends. Especially in the last 6 months. We lost one who didn't know how to handle his mental health. He had a good job, young kids, good job, wife. His close buddies said he was a bit off. When he drove to the hospital to pull the trigger 3 days before xmas. I rallied the guys together. Men have a higher suicide rate because they are very successful, women cry out have lots of failed attempts, and we clearly have no problem expressing our feelings. You went through alot. You also realized that everything is temporary. I wish the best for u. Gratitude is an action word. My dudes are in their late 40's all going through divorce. Not sure what's next. It's not easy. You guys are not worthless. The younger boys are a hot mess. Be happy ur not 23
That gives me hope. Actually a bit inspiring. Thank u 👍
You can hear the pain in his voice. Almost like his soul is lost ?!?! JP said happiness isn’t the goal in life it’s purpose ! Thanks for the content and GOD bless !
Happiness is a state of mind. A purpose is the goal. Satisfaction is the result upon reaching that goal, and lasts for all of 20 seconds.
@@garrettlowell7637 factzzz ! Agreed!
Dave Chappelle made a great point about suicide in one of his jokes. He told a story about a Footlocker manager he knew that didn't seem to have a lot going for him, and yet he never seemed to even consider committing suicide. He then contrasted that with Anthony Bourdain, who was a successful celebrity, who did commit suicide. The Footlocker guy may not have had a lot going for him, but he wasn't much different from those around him and probably had a sense of community that made him feel that his suffering wasn't singular or arbitrary. Anthony Bourdain was a rich celebrity. Who knows how many people he could relate to and vise versa? I think it's really the isolation that drives people over the edge. Just my take.
Good point, since I have started to view ambition and being content with what I have I as a balancing act enjoy life a lot more. Most jobs aren't fulfilling by nature so hobbies help a lot I.E. art and exercise. Best to have several to avoid burnout.
@@latt.qcd9221 Carrying a burden, more often than not, means focusing on others needs instead of just your own. Introspection such as Bourdains can become very unhealthy when its focused purely internally and is narrowly existential rather than being focused on others as a source of meaning through service.
Yin Yang.
@@latt.qcd9221 I believe JBP's main argument is to chase purpose, not happiness, as happiness is impermanent and purpose gives the meaning to life that can drive long term, non-transient happiness. Happiness is very much influenced by hormones after all, but a life long goal/ dream career or societal role can fuel you regardless of temporary shifts in biology and life's variables. "Burdens" is a complete reframing of purpose - if purpose is a burden in any shape or form... then it never truly was your purpose given the goal doesn't trump the day to day work required to achieve/ embody it.
Interesting observation. Thank you.
Men need to get better at lifting each other up and helping each other out, rather than viewing each other as competition. Women band together to support each other. If men don't start helping each other out, we're done.
Men were done 20 years ago.
Jack, I would say too that a wise and empathetic woman can help lift you up, if you have that available. I agree with your statement too.
Yes, men need each other. Why don't they normalize friendliness to each other?
As a welder and fabricator I have never been out of work. Get a trade and be good at it. If I want to learn anything I go to the library. I only have a high school education. University is totally unsuitable for many students.
There are so many vocations available to learn. Just take a look in the yellow pages and you can see that there are thousands of occupational opportunities available. Perseverance, determination and integrity are paramount.
Be very careful about who you choose to breed with. I don't have children. Important discussion thanks.
I found these podcasts through watching one with you and Dr Jordan Peterson and you have quickly become my favourite podcast. You have interesting guests, you are a calm and insightful host and it's just a pleasure to listen. Thank you!
I started to suffer severe anxiety and panic attacks when I was 35. I'm 41 now, and every day is a struggle, some good, some very bad. Seeking help has done nothing. Nobody gives 2 shits. Woman look at me like, suck it up buttercup. It's not surprising when you look at statistics on male suicide.
A lot of guys struggle at 40 or so, who do get through it and end up glad they've done so. I'm hoping that's you too.
Sorry to hear that. I've had severe social anxiety most of my life, and started having panic attacks a few years ago after I was assaulted and robbed by a gang of youths when I went for a walk. I'm 37 now and the last few years have been the worst of my life. Let's hope we both get better.
I started severe consistent anxiety @37 & I’m 43 now. Somehow I think it’s linked to reduction in testosterone leaving your nervous. System vulnerable to the chaotic elements that have actually always existed, but thankfully we weren’t able to see in our youth.
I pretty much had a similar conversation about my job and where I want to be... After having very period of long days very stressful times in work. I now know
1 I don't want an upper level job.
2 I am happy that, I get as an engineer to work on projects and technologies but I do not want management roles or responsibilities.
3 I do not need mega money, just enough for my bills and save some for a rainy day etc.
4 family life is where the real goals are.
Same I am girl and all I want is stable job with good money that let me have a lot of freedom and reading books to develop the wisdom I want and I do art beside
My happiness is internal
But still struggling with mental illness
As a father of 3 boys I know how hard it a for young men. Starts in school where they have competitiveness knocked out of them and work values driven into them.
Woke not work
Men need strong fathers, who love them, and stand up for them when the culture seeks to diminish their worth.
When you become a father, this then becomes your focus.
My father was a deadbeat dad who cheated on my mother. Then he left
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Sorry about that, this is why it’s important for Women to make smart decisions about who they marry / have kids with.
It’s a cycle based on poor female choices, permissive female behavior and inadequate value reinforcement.
Maybe her father didn’t explain the red flags?
@Liberate mi
It's not poor female choices. People present themselves differently at the onset than later when you've lived with them for a time period.
It's about men being good men and being good fathers who don't leave their families. Has nothing to do with the father making descisions. That's just BS
My dad couldn't care less.
@@liberatemi9642
I find it really ironic when people like you say "women don't take accountability" yet here you are, avoiding their father taking accountability for how they act and treat their family.
That person's mother was the parent who cared and stayed. What's the dad's excuse? According to you it's the woman's fault for having kids? Pathetic, L take on family matters.
Just turned 56 a few months ago and have vacillated between being incredibly depressed (not clinically, that I know of) about where I am and the futility of a lifetime of fighting the same demons (that do get beaten back but never leave) and feeling like I actually don't give too much of a wit about where I am in the marathon or even if I'll finish. Every battle to pull myself out of the cycle of despair back into my stoic resignation leaves me feeling like I've only managed to accept a mental trick rather than I actually strategically "won this round". I grew up in a religious household and still believe in a God that built the clock and wound it up and let it go but too much evidence that there might be "peace in the end" but getting there is a walk through chaos and hell. So, I have a back stop of ultimately not worrying about the final end, I simultaneously have this hate relationship with the chaos. I don't want it to end, but I can't stand being in it either... I chose a career in a moment when I had a genuine panic that I was doomed to a life of jobs I hated as much as the jobs I already had and hated. I hit a trade school and instead of going to near guarantee of a career in my wife's family business I leveraged my degree and started my career in computer programming. I loved it for a short time, and then cycled through a career where my primary motivation was fear of layoffs (due to performance) and fear of getting revealed as an imposter. Fundamentally not very ambitious, not particularly clever, not particularly naturally gifted or able to rise in the ranks due to my natural gravitas, I was (am) in constantly strategizing on who to befriend, studying the movement of the lights to know precisely where to be standing for the lights to shine on me or when to work the weekend to get the kudos. Getting by on gobbling just in time "power ups" rather than winning by being steady. The older I got the harder it was to keep important details in my head (super important in the technical career) and an over reliance on google and stack overflow to help me solve all my technical issues. I cannot actually build a website or api from scratch anymore and haven't been able to for 15 years, yet my survival skills have taught me what to leverage to get the project done. At 56, I should be in management, but I don't feel qualified to lead nor want to hang out with managers, it seems like a desperately boring and tedious life of meetings and goal setting and herding cats. At 56, barely, I'm still 10 or 11 years away from the gold watch and can't imagine going another 10 years. I literally can't imagine it. I fucking hate it. Yet its the only thing I have so I read books and learn the next new things and fake my way through it.
This podcast was a breath of fresh air, I'm not alone.
I want peace, I want to accept where I am and all that has come before, and look forward to 10 more years of my working life. I want to enjoy my friends and not constantly compare myself to them. I want to stop waking up in the middle of the night in an existential panic and have to down 2 shots of whiskey and smoke a little pot to go back to sleep. I want to stop worrying that I don't have enough money to survive and be happy with less. I want to stop looking over my shoulder expecting the grim reaper of technical careers to be standing there (there aren't many older programmers, it's mostly a career that favors the young who are unburdened by a brain full of dead languages, tech stacks, and abandoned architectural practices). I want to be free of a view of life that fills me with anxiety and just accept and be.
At least, it appears, that I got here honestly and it's a shared/generational angst. Sometimes you just need to know you aren't alone and maybe it's time to speak up and find a few honest guys that will let me unburden myself occasonally.
Cheers and slainte...
Get your testosterone checked. I'm 50 and mine is a joke. Going to a clinic in 3 days for pellet therapy . Foggy thinking, no energy, low mood etc.
@@GUITARTIME2024 I will, that sounds like something to check out. I was trying out doctors a few years ago (I have never had a regular doctor, I seem to only go when I hurt myself skiing, snowboarding or sledding, lol), I need to get a new doctor. I had one that was female and Ethiopian and while competent and kind she just didn't pick up on my hints about low t. I didn't think she seemed know enough about men's issues to focus on my needs as a man older than 50. I will try again. I am back in the gym this year, mostly 3 days a week of resistance training. That is helping.
You’re a very gifted writer though!
@@ehsanmafi6546 Thank you... My prose is sharper in shades of pain, dread, passion, love and lust. I wish I could write for the sheer joy of moving thoughts to paper!
Firstly let me THANK YOU for discussing this topic, this issue is so important and affects numerous people. Here is my analysis on the situation, take it for what it’s worth.
It seems that men have a natural inclination to want to provide and prove themselves, while simultaneously having the freedom to choose in what way they do this. As it stands now in modern society there is only one way to be seen as a valuable man, it’s the stereotypical rich athletic alpha male and that’s it.
Here’s where the dilemma arises.
While this is the primary way for a man to justify his self worth by societal standards, it has recently become demonized by society as well. Those who seek this strength/status or validation are now tyrannical and hate woman/minorities.
Thus we are in a catch 22. This I believe is where the depression comes from, because there no acceptable way for men to be men anymore on a fundamental level. It’s also no secret that many men want families and partners but this double standard makes this extremely difficult (and not to mention risky because of divorce court) for most men.
Lastly I do think the constant looming reminder of all this through social media/technology and how everyone is addicted to being connected, creates a perfect storm where there is literally no where left for men to go to be valued. All in all it just sucks.
So what are men to do? Well, desperate times call for desperate measures I suppose. Some go mgtow, others go back home and live with their parents, still others get lost in fantasy worlds like porn/video games.
I think the best way to go about it is what you two have suggested. Not to care or feel so much pressure, try your best to just fulfill your own dreams. I think minimalism is a good start. Then let those who want to join you do so, while ignoring the haters. Ultimately this is all that we can do.
Stay strong guys.
These kind of episodes are super helpful with where im at lately man. Been watching for over a year, much love.
Such a great topic and well explored. Perspective of a married homosexual here, it was tough growing up with a confusing blend of not conforming to the tough guy/lad/chad notion of masculinity while also not feeling remotely like the stereotypes of gay men (feminine/flamboyant/extroverted/social). Until my late 20's I couldn't confront my sexuality or develop any sort of comfort or happiness in my life because of a refusal to acknowledge that there was a third option: be a healthy-masculine gay man, in other words, just a dude who happens to be happiest partnered with another dude.
The mental anguish dominated the first 28 years of my life, unable-- due to the context of my life, role models (lack thereof), not knowing anyone like I was, and having a lot of "toxic" reinforcement (not woke toxic, I mean more Victorian stoicism).
Even now I find our culture confusing and I am happiest when detached from society, which is a shame (same goes for my husband). We're more rugged, outdoorsy, introverted types who wholesale reject the entire image of being gay, not out of protest, that's just how comfortable we are.
I tell this story because I think it relates to the topic at hand in that the continuous error is one of mimicry, role modeling, and ideation derived from entertainers and influencers. As children I think we need to grow and develop as we are without thinking there are lanes we have to fit ourselves into. By trying to pick a lane, or in my case avoid picking a lane, we subject ourselves to so much anxiety and unhappiness as we measure against a fictional ideal. It then often takes decades to undo the mentality, if it ever happens, and we are permanently impacted.
I don't think any institution or government can solve this problem, it's a problem with psychology at scale and how cultures form and survive. Good comes with it, but also bad. The most we can hope for is increased freedoms and the spread of tolerance as a value. To illustrate: for the first quarter of my life I craved tolerance from the religious conservatives; now in this phase of my life I crave tolerance from the woke left-- regardless of the trends of society we are constantly at the mercy of others. The reality is the need for that mercy or judgment at all-- we need to stop moving in clusters of group-think and mimicry and approach culture as individuals. True diversity isn't ever found in cancelation.
Im glad you were able discover who you are and accept it. I hate the notion of boxing someone into a stereotype. I was ostracized by really anyone who saw me when I took a great interest in bushcraft and since it was california everything was "illegal" "dangerous" "Freakish". Fuckin californians. Now I have traveled to washington on foot and plan to travel the US with just my pack and knowledge/skills I gain. Id say live your life as if your gaurenteed to die. Because you are. Take care to all👍
The question is not about if anyone cares about men, but if men care enough about themselves in the first place. A lot of times, the answer is no. If you hate yourself, you are your worst enemy.
Boys are taught to hate themselves (and to hate men) from the time that they are first shoved into childhood indoctrination centers known as "public schools." Go take a look around your local elementary school, and see for yourself. Check out the curriculum, from the books thay they're made to read to the things that they're told to write to the posters & flags on the walls. Ask a few teachers how many of their male students are forced to take psychoactive "medications." Then ask how many of their female students are forced to take similar medication.
I agree, unfortunately the pain manifest itself into something more violent twards women. When men think they are being devalued.
Ultimately yes we have to find a way to for ourselves to get past the internal struggle ( wish the help of therapists/counselors if need be) but the circumstances that play into it are not trivial. Including family, and yes women who basically call you an oppressor then tell you to man up when you express vulnerability or frustration in ways they don't like.
What they call fighting patriarchy is just basic self-interest when they perpetuate "man up" just the same when it's asked of them to listen.
This. Fix yourself, become likeable to yourself. Be your best friend. Who else is gonna support you if not you?
Kids in school are taught to respect women. Nobody's taught to respect men.
oh my god i hope that is correct, because i turn 50 in a couple months and my entire 30s and 40s i have been constantly more and more terrified as i have to be more and more concerned about having health issues. and as i have a harder and harder time doing the physical stuff my job makes me do as my job continues to work me harder and harder like i am a 20 year old because the 20 year olds i work with will not do anything. i am constantly thinking to myself i dont know how in the hell i am going to be able to keep working like this in 10 years, and i am no more finacially secure than i was 20 or 30 years ago, i am still a normal working class pay check to paycheck nobody.
Perhaps the cost of living in your area is too high?
@@Opal5674 i live in Oklahoma i believe it is pretty low compared to many places. my problem is i have never been greedy or ambitious. all i desire is to spend every available moment i can at home alone in peace and privacy. so i go to work because i have to and i always show up and i always work hard and do my job, but i cannot go for promotion because i can not live for my job and give up the only thing i want, which is to be at home by myself in peace and privacy as much as physically possible.
but then because i am not mister stand around and talk sparkling personality managers actually treat you worse and work you harder, while they actually let the stand around nd talk people get away with goofing off all day while us older people pick up all the slack. so im just waiting for this older age where i apparently finally find happiness.
I've been feeling like this since I was 25 and had my first non- minimum wage job. I describe knowing you'll just be working until you're 65 or so as staring into an infinite abyss. You don't look forward to it unless you've deluded yourself, and there's no escaping it. The best you can do is to think it's not all that bad and then go to work again on Monday.
Men act like a full time job is some of their pain and demons they are fighting. Like really. Some men at my factory job think they deserve to get off work and just sit around and drink. Like oh is this full time job such a trauma for you? Meanwhile we women workers get outta this job and go home and do more work.
@@Opal5674 what you said had nothing to do with what he said you country simpleton
@@Opal5674 there's a psychosis in it. Once you spend 30-50% of your waking time doing stuff for somebody else, you wonder what you could have been doing for yourself instead. When I hear about people crashing after work, I hear that they are unhappy with their lives. They've gone to a point where they're giving up their time and energy for a company with the hope that they will be able to sit on their ass after they get done with work (ie retire). What do you do when you finish with your work day that they do not?
I'm not saying that my depressed thoughts that I mention were correct or healthy, just that I had them when I realized I would be working at least another 40 years. I'm 35 now and more stable but you can't deny that a 40 year commitment is daunting at 25 (as it would be for anybody, man or woman).
@@k2k4 Oh you and I are same age. A guy I work with that's been there since age 19 and he's like 33 is starting his lawn care business so he can leave. Ya gotta try something like that or get a trade skill. Not too late
@@Opal5674 Question...do those men have anything worth going home to or working for?
Death gotta be easy 'cause life is hard
It'll leave you physically, mentally, and emotionally scarred.
Alot of young 30/40 years old man are committing suicide everyday sad
It’s truly awful
I am a man, and a bachelor for life. Not to discount this message, its valid and important. But. I ride motorcycles with my friends and my mental health is excellent.
Übermensch!
@@lancewalker2595 fight club?
@@Logan-jh5xn Zarathustra
@@lancewalker2595 what do you, lance, do to become Ubermensch?
@@Logan-jh5xn The Ubermensch is not "achieved", one cannot "become" the Ubermensch, the Ubermensch is a becoming.
Quick answer? No. They don’t.
The only people who MIGHT care about and love you unconditionally are your parents and maybe siblings. No one else gives a shit.
Live out of spite, become exceptional at something, succeed, and laugh all the way to the bank.
Outstanding comment !!
Never forget, we are all in competition and even if that is not on the forefront of your mind or intentions it is buried deep in the human mind.
@@forgottenfuryan It is ironic. Men compete for resources ultimately so that they can (maybe) marry, and have children. Women compete for resources to survive. A woman can have several years of higher education, then soon as she has children, she has the option to stay at home to raise the kids much of the time, as long as the man she is with can provide sufficiently.
All men should practice meditation and read Stoicism. Sam Harris has an excellent introductory course on his Waking Up app. Ryan Holiday writes about Stoicism. Start with them. Forge an iron mind. Persevere. It is the only way.
Wish I could’ve liked this comment multiple times. I was on the wrong path before I started following stoicism and focusing more on quieting my mind through meditation. Good luck to you in this ever maddening world my friend.
Be good to the world even if the world isn’t good to you.
the thing about stoicism that I can't shake is it sometimes feels like it boils down to just accepting crap instead of actively trying to fix it
@@brastmonkey I can't recommend it enough. I mention it to anyone who might listen. It takes time and discipline to begin with but as things fall slowly into place and you catch a glimpse of the peace on the other side of your ego, it all makes sense. Alan Watts is another great speaker I recommend on this topic.
I would say good luck to you too, but we don't need luck. Stay tranquil brother.
@@Dylan-ko2gj That's a common criticism. In response the Stoics might say that there will always be crap. Much of life is just a series of crap things happening that you have no choice but to overcome and learn from as best you can. Stoicism teaches that you can't avoid crap, but you can control your response to it. You do not have to feel negative in response to crap things happening. So see the futility in allowing negative emotion to dictate your experience, discard the negative emotion by observing the irrational and temporary nature of it, and choose to respond in a considered and logical manner that is most appropriate to the circumstance.
I couldn't agree more, however the current times have certainly tested the path and I've fallen off a bit recently. Trying to pick up the pieces and find my way again.
I'm in my 50's with no children and never married. I have struggled with anxiety and panic most of my life. I found this helpful that someone can admit this publicly and still maintain a positive self image. I dreamed of a day when I did not have to leave home to work. I now have that, but actually don't quite like it. The pandemic for me was both good and bad, but now that it's ending for now, I find the anxiety level has increased for some reason. Anyone else feel this way?
We just spent 2 years having it drilled into us that most of the US citizens are gullible zombies willing to give up rights over a cold. Now world leaders are posturing for ww3. Why would anyone feel anxious ? 😜
Your brain has probably atrophied and the world of problems is more stressful. Get your head back into shape.
I was told that anxiety is simply unspent energy.
The pandemic was a weird momentary reprieve from the typical demands from my career almost like we got a pass on the necessary ambition we need to keep from getting fired. I don't quite know how to explain it, but once it was over, I felt like I "lost my cover"... No more excuses. I'm not sure working from home is the best thing, I think we need the crucible of the work "environment". We get better dressed, care more about our appearances, in essence we "suit up". Now I jus make sure I look good from the chest up and the camera doesn't show how fucking messy my desk is. The only public facing part of me now is the 4 foot by four foot field of view people see on Zoom.
@@rfphill True.. I learned early on to treat work at home the same as work in office; shower, shave, get dressed, act like you're in the office. I'm fortunate in that I have an office I go to now a couple times a week to get back on track. Our company is remote-first, so office presence isn't required. But many of us are going in anyway to fend off what you are talking about.
"Does Anyone Care About Men's Mental Health?"
There's a whole month for men's mental health. It's June. Same as pride month. In June every company changes their logo to a rainbow. In contrast, almost no one knows that June is men's mental health month. So there's your answer. Fascinating that we focus on sexual orientation above men's mental health which claims the lives of 35,000 men per year (in the USA alone) and negatively affects the lives of many more that don't decide to kill themselves.
Thank you so much for this conversation. I don’t feel so alone anymore.
The most interesting part about taking down the patriarchy is that I as man never got to experience any of said patriarchy. That was my grandfathers life as he was growing up. I'm being punished, as a man, for something I've never been given access to on any level.
Ironic how the son inherits his father's mistakes is the only thing that rings true.(forgive my musings)
The ‘Patriarchy’ as it’s called created the incredible conditions, facilities and resources that everyone blindly enjoys in todays society. What a terrible system we descend and benefit from. Let’s crush it
I went to a metal health therapist a few years ago not having any problems but just lacking the motivation and the willpower to do basic things such as going to school and doing schoolwork. I was basically having an existential crisis, not knowing what to do in life. The therapist told me that she had a few students come in earlier that day about thoughts of suicide and other major problems. I guess I should wait until I get super depressed or really fucked up before trying to solve my problems with a therapist.
Bro
If you have the opportunity to get a therapist then do it without hesitation.
When I did I wasn’t taken seriously. So when you feel like nothing changes after 4 weeks, get a different therapist.
My second therapist definitely helped me a lot. But well I can’t afford therapy anymore and am starting to get more and more fucked up.
What a sh!tty therapist, dang!
I really needed this. Lately I've been kind of weary of life and the whole crisis in Ukraine makes me feel bad about feeling bad considering all the refugees fleeing from war. I have no grief, no financial issues, I have plenty of loving friends and I socialize regularly, I have job security and I love my job. I don't have much of a reason to feel bad, but being chronically single and getting older while finding it difficult to deal with the loneliness of being single is certainly not an easy thing to deal with.
Perhaps you can find some solace in the irony that you're definitely not alone in feeling alone
How old are we talking here? Travelling, Cooking, Pets, Gardening, Reading, joining some communities, Social work, etc.. etc.. can fill the void to some extent.
When you're sitting alone in a restaurant looking around all you see are happy families enjoying themselves.
However, if you were part of one of these said families you would be looking around seeing happy singles enjoying their meals in peace.
If you dwell on loneliness you are bound to feel lonely. Relish in your freedom instead.
The grass isn't always greener.......
@@garrusvakarian3451 I'm not even that old. I'm turning 27, so my worry is that I'll wake up 40 one day without a wife and kids, wondering what the point of continuing is when I have no legacy or offspring to leave behind. I'm also worried that all the friends I'm regularly seeing now will grow apart from me one day. I can bear being single if I at least have a social life, but if I lose that I have essentially nothing.
It's no bad thing being 'alone'. I've suffered from depression since childhood trauma. The gym is good for me. I like to travel alone. Play guitar. Read and study. Been learning Russian for the last 6 months. I have a friend in Poltava, Ukraine and not heard from her and her mother. I feel bad and I'm worried. That's normal. So you should not feel bad for feeling bad. Just stay away from the news.
Look at it like this. If you get married and have kids the odds are against you of the relationship staying intact. You will then feel a lot worse than dealing with the loneliness before the relationship.
I live in America for 7 years and mental health went way down I got really bad depression .I use to have medicine for depression still my mental health going down even more . So finally I decided to come back to Pakistan. Then after living here my mental health got really improved . And now I am living normal life.
@Nowhere Man It has couple of reasons. First of all there is no man hating culture is here . Secondly i got married here the woman are way more better then the American woman .And work culture is way more relax then America. I use to live in New York city and I almost become homeless really bad.but back home I have a house . So that why I move back easily
Congrats on finding your way back home to a better life.
@Nowhere Man If there is no man hating culture then I have no problem
@@Turd_Eating_Dog Thanks
I'm also somewhat in your situation. Moved to the UK 2 years ago from Pakistan, my mental health has been at the bottom. I never even knew what mental health was, I used to be much happier in Pakistan even though I was making 10 times less.
We need to make sure this toxic feministic misandry corporate culture doesn't enter our country and treat it as a national security issue. Already we face a lot of problems in our country ranging from corruption to low development, but the death of the nuclear family would be an abomination for us all just like people in the west are facing now.
Pakistan zindabad!
There are many causes of depression, the ones commonly known are traumatic loss and traumatic stress. However, there are some other causes people aren’t usually aware of: adrenal dysfunction, viral infection, electrolyte deficiency, and heavy metals and other toxins. If you have the “everything is perfect” variety (depressed for “no reason”, it’s from oxidation of heavy metals in the brain and other toxins that can create neuron and neurotransmitter damage that disrupts your brains ability yo function. The toxins most responsible for depressive disorders include: pesticides and herbicides, formaldehyde, solvents, and food additives. Highly recommend reading “medical medium secrets behind chronic and mystery illness and how to finally heal.” There’s a great chapter on PTSD in there as well . There’s actually a physical component to PTSD which is why people experience trauma differently and have different levels of what can cause long lasting symptoms.
Women joining the workforce, the sexual revolution, limitless pornography, biased divorce courts, severely declining testosterone, turning the frogs gay, and social media. So many weapons pointed at men, and at society in general.
But above all you must not feel shame, and beat yourself up over your situation. That will only make you feel defeated and demoralized. You are not worthless or toxic, and you don't deserve to suffer needlessly.
Thank you so much for these words. Just having my suffering not completely invalidated is such a relief, it's almost too much to ask for.
based and empathy-pilled.
@@Zombiphobia - Thank you. What would life be without empathy and compassion? Very unhappy.
No one suffers alone.... you drag ppl with you.
These are nice words. But when will women stop demanding men to earn more (the double) than them, so far you are taking away jobs, opportunities, and never want to give back anything much.
Despite all of the talk about mental health these days, little of it seems to help. In my experience, "men's mental health" is constrained in the public view to "how do we make sure men pipe down about their problem and keep working" (i'm not talking about the clinical sphere, ex. psychology and psychiatry). If you decide you want to change career tracks for something more interesting, you are met with "that's risky, think of the money you'll lose, that's dangerous", even if your current career is agonizing. And if you want to drop a high-paying, high-stress job for something more sustainable, lots of people will deem you an ambitionless loser. This has been my experience IRL, ignoring the online dialogue. With so little positive dialogue around optimizing men's individual lifestyles based on their preferences, its easy to feel isolated and stuck on the wrong track.
@L Hunter I think you're correct in saying that men don't usually get any points for sharing feelings with women in their lives. I don't think that women despise men collectively, but I think that men are viewed as more disposable in the eyes of society than ever. Male disposability has a long history, and if you haven't read about it I would definitely recommend. Sure, some women despise men, but I don't think that's a big proportion. Instead, I think that the evolutionary trend of women giving preference to emotionally unwavering, high-earning, fit, intelligent, and strong men is at the root. Men who stray from those standards are viewed negatively in a romantic way (everyone is entitled to their preferences, so I can't blame them) AND in a "societal-worth" way (which I think is super damaging). All of this is to say that I don't think struggling men will find solace from their female peers. I guess I'm just saying we shouldn't be disappointed, because there's no way that pattern will change.
@L Hunter Yes, I see the misogyny retort as tantamount to kicking the tires on a broken down car. Also, in general women don't care how things work, they just want them to work.
Men care about the macro view of function and are objective thinkers. Women are subjective thinkers so I can see how caring about men is seen no further than how it relates to the context of the woman-self. In such context, caring about or meeting men's needs is by definition threatening. This leads them to such a myopic viewpoint that they can't see that caring about men is vicariously caring about themselves=win win.
To onboard women in anything in reguard to men you must appeal to the woman-self first i.e. the welbeing of their sons or how caring about meeting men's needs and understanding the male condition can benefit them.
To believe that women are benevolent is simply male projection. They don't care about our welbeing in the same way we care for theirs.
@@sunfish4095 - indeed, man as a disposable utility.
BTW I don't hate women but when we don't recognize they are basically royalty and queen ants in the whole damn way of things we end up mistreating the mere male. Do this to much and you kill the hand that feeds and turns the gears of the gynocentric machine. What appears to benefit women will end up harming them in the long run. Much of the way we treat men is short sighted.
I've come to accept that women are more important and simply matter more..but from what base level do their comforts, provision and protection in life come from. All things material at some point came from raw material, enfranchised men and male toil. All the lines between territory and resources of nation states drawn in male blood. Cultures of disenfranchised men perish from the Earth. The lines between nation states redrawn / seized by cultures with women who value, care for and support their men.
@@richardshortall5987 I think at an essential level women love men..it's politicians that hate men and want to divide women away from men. Look at how they are courted by political snakes. Many women buy into it. Key is erodeding female trust in men so they then defer to the outstretched hand of The State.
I appreciate your work/show so very much! So informative and has been a catalyst for some amazing conversations with my hubby AND my son.THANK YOU♥️
Be careful of any school counseling systems that are there to “help”. I was diagnosed with a mental disorder by some social worker who asked forensic psychology questions. They just didn’t want to get sued if I died. This was right before I was kicked out
One of the major problems is the lack of "male only" spaces where men can relax and talk among peers. These spaces were also important for men to introduce their sons to the male sphere of life as a sort of rite of passage. Men's mental health is important, but he needs a space where he feels unjudged and safe to share his internal world with other men he can trust to preserve his reputation, dignity, and confidentiality. Without these spaces, men are isolated physically, emotionally, and mentally. They die inside, alone.
Life is suffering. Everyone is suffering. Release attachment and be free.
The fast answer is very few ppl care about men even other men
No, people do not care, at least not on par with the scale of the actual issue. If you voice concerns over the mass of suicides in men and if it is a woman they will probably compare it to a problem women face, or anyone, in general, will shrug it off. People are not bothered. Society was not built around catering to men's problems. We do not need to talk about our problems and all of that nonsense. We want a reason to live and a purpose to strive for and most of all we want our male spaces and communities back. If they do not, expect a broken society and a broken generation of men and boys. Simple as that really. And no, you do not need therapy. Talking to a woman once or twice a week, while she pretends to hear and understand your problems is the last thing you need.
Great point. Agree 100%
Right.
Men have it so rough in today's society and no one even takes it seriously,it makes me so sad and mad 💔
I really like George Bruno's take on Depression.
You aren't "depressed" - you are DISCOURAGED.
You have lost your courage to face life and weather the storm. How to find your courage again?
Build it back up through physical action and deeds. Get out of your own head and into your body. Make your bed.
Depressed and depression are two different things. One can lead to the other, and yes, excercise, sleep, food and change of scenery will help with the overall emotional state and help fight the negative thoughts. But when people fighting severe depression, unable to brush their teeth, sleep or function properly, they're not just discouraged. They want out of life all together. Speaking from experience, unfortunately
@@jurgen951 I hear you - but most people don't reach that level of dysfunction.
For most people it's a struggle of mindset, internalized beliefs and a lack of healthy introspection. I've been there too - a slave trapped inside my own head.
Mine stops when I stop believing it exists. Stoicism helps too.
Depressed is just a euphemism for your life sucks. Your job is bad, you're fat, have no friends. You're supposed to feel bad when your life sucks. It's nature's way of telling you to get off your ass and do something.
Dawg why the fuck do I have to make my bed. What utility does it serve? Does it make going to bed easier the next night?
@@danfontaine8179 You do it because it builds contentiousness (dependability). It trains your brain to force yourself to do what you're supposed to do EVERY TIME. You train yourself to become dependable and strong by going through that hassle and completing it. It helps you gain mastery over yourself. If you become a contentious person you will have more success in life - guaranteed.
In the context of depression - it forces you to get off your ass and do something - even if you feel like killing yourself right that second.
Have you ever read anything about Stoic philosophy?
90s fashion coming back has firmly told me I’m ancient 😆 but can’t believe you’ve never heard of Withnail and I!!! Haha, happy birthday for last week Chris!
To work from home is a privilege. Every time someone makes a video about how the pandemic affected work life balance or the media does, it’s always about working from home.
How many people across the world do you really think had the opportunity to work from home or lost their jobs because their job wasn’t one where they could just make calls or type away at a screen? Where is the coverage for those people?
Where is the discussion for those people? Where is the big titles about the privilege one has to work from home compared to those who are in warehouses or factories or restaurants or farming?
I bring this up because stepping back from our small world, you can see the disparity in work and quality of life across the world
Yes. Working from home is a great privilege. IMO only someone who lives a vapid life that is solely dedicated to work would complain. There are endless ways to socialize outside of work and no one is stopping anyone from playing office dress up and putting on whatever attire they want.
Whilst it's certainly true that people that were able to work from home were incredibly lucky it isn't without drawbacks. Many I know are feeling isolated from not seeing their colleagues for 2 years, myself included.
Worse is a very deep hole.
Yep, in the midst of the pandemic people were complaining and whining on the internet what they had to isolate themselves and eat take out everyday. Meanwhile my friends still drove in public transport to work everyday and had only hope to not get sick ( its when we still didnt even had vaccines and only shit people were doing is wearing masks). Also my sister was forced to take 1 month vacation from her boss with no pay just so he could save money on mandated payments for workers coz of covid.
@@BenGmanUk Yeah I don't feel bad for you man. Just.. leave the house? I never quit hanging with friends during the pandemic. I can't believe anyone actually stopped socializing, could have just gone to each other's houses. It's not like covid was serious.
In the West, the spiritual element of life is completely ignored in common discourse and materialist culture, replaced by the promise of happiness once you've earned loads of money and are in a nice house.
You're right. Cultivating and maintaining a spirit of gratitude has been my greatest strength when depression has me weak.
A big part of it is fear least for me was and anxiety and depression because you know if you fail hard enough you could lose everything and as a man there is no one there to help you or that even gives a fuk, there is no safety net for men, its all one you no one is going to save you but yourself and this is what you have to realize and accept the reality around you and just live best life you can for yourself always. I come first before anyone else now may sound selfish but its what you have to do to be happy. I just dont care about society anymore at all now whatever happens happens, society never gave a shit about me why would I care about it?
Men are also likely to have everything, or at least a huge chunk of it, stolen from them if they succeed. Even Jeff Bezos gets robbed by his ex-wife's real husband Big Daddy Government.
I’m 42 and this conversation hit home for me big time. Nothing horribly wrong in my life, but Covid and working in healthcare has mentally stressed me to the max these last few years. I’m questioning what I really want in life. I just know where I am now feels empty.
I want out I keep screaming at sky daddy but he obviously needs me down here .
The system wasn't built for men. It was built for the upper class.
czcams.com/video/4TkFmmdmk50/video.html
Gig economy is total hustle without any days off. I've worked this way for a decade, and it leads to burnout.
This (I think for both of you) is the masculine timeline from the view of the educated & successful professional. It’s kind of like listening to a Tim Ferris podcast about how’ you too can become a world champion tango dancer and successful entrepreneur with this mathematical equation. It’s an analysis from success which doesn’t map very well onto the average Joe.
I believe that the masculine timeline for those who didn’t go to university or have a career is completely different.
I’m 47 now and I can safely say my happiest years have been in the past 10 years. My childhood, my teens, twenties and early thirties were one long view from the bottom. I was a short shy unathletic boy who grew into a troubled drug dealing, drug taking teenager with dyslexia who dropped out of school at 14 and worked as an unskilled labourer in construction (supplementing my income selling dope of different kinds). I was short, lived an extremely unhealthy lifestyle of mixing cement for minimum wage by day, drinking in pubs selling coke at night and getting off my head at raves on the weekend. Women didn’t find me attractive and if I wasn’t doing work I hated for crap money, I was risking my liberty breaking the law or fucking up my health and causing self inflicted depression (hangovers) by night. Unless I was on ecstasy or getting pissed and watching football, I wasn’t ever really happy and I was NEVER successful and confident in ANYTHING. By the time I was 35 I was still living at my dad’s house, I had a massive beer belly, a crap job, permanently single and had just barely, by the skin of my teeth, been acquitted of a cocaine dealing charge with a minimum tariff of 6 years.
I believe this, or a similar (perhaps without the drug dealing but most likely the taking) life track is extremely common for working class men,
My mid life crisis was the opposite of how you two successful university graduates are viewing things. I moved permanently to Thailand, I started lifting, boxing and eating right. In 6 months I had a 6 pack, muscles, was getting pretty good in the ring and was studying to be a coach. I got married in 2013 but my wife sadly passed away from cancer in 2017.
But I’m now, at 47, a fully qualified boxing trainer and personal fitness trainer, I live in paradise and women find me very attractive.
Being young was a shit show. Mid life has been good to me. Let’s hope being old is a blessing to.
I think the difference between my trajectory and both of yours, is education. Whether you’re working class or middle class, university puts you in the ranks of the middle class. Being a school dropout and unskilled labourer in post Blair Britain, really is a shit show. All this talk of having a career and a chiseled gym body in your twenties and thirties, is pretty alien to the multiple millions of us who either didn’t get a GCSE or a GCSE was the only qualification acquired. We don’t have careers. We drive the white vans and drink pints in pubs 4 nights a week from leaving school onwards. No career in journalism, no 6 pack, no Love Island high to come down from. Our life trajectories are different.
The few of us who manage to pull ourselves out of the doldrums, tend to do it in our mid life. The rest just languish in the same position. At the bottom, living at home, driving a forklift, sitting in the same pub tooting Charlie into their 50s until their heart explodes. Very few social, professional, relationship or athletic highs to show for it or come down from in mid life.h
Good post.
Did the crisis come at the best time for you, like when you were ready to use it? Or could things have changed earlier?
@@hugor1338 the crisis was everything before mid life. Mid life is my prime
This sounds like a perspective issue. I’m in my 40s. Stay at home mom with a kid and I’ve picked up fixing the house, gardening, and sewing as hobbies. Not only does my child give me purpose but so do hobbies that are beneficial for my family and friends.
I don’t really understand this mentality where doing the right thing - being a good responsible father and husband is considered boring. Like what? Having lived a long time without having kids, I assure you that it gets boring REAL fast.
If you’re not enjoying your family, you’re doing it wrong. Need to rearrange your mindset about purpose in life. Are you comparing yourself to others? Well if you are, stop it. Learning how to be happy with what you have is a skill.
As someone who was chronically depressed for nearly 3 years (part of it being unable to get out of bed for months), I can tell you that a big portion of it is your mindset in life. The other portion is getting some blood work done to see if you have any deficiencies like vitamin d (biggest culprit). Getting a hobby where you’re building stuff was also helpful for me. Sewing helped me through my depression. And now gardening is helping me to go outside, work out, and get prepped for any potential issues facing my family and community.
Umiluv.... Applause and admiration. Youre on the money. Isnt it great being a bit older and having found solutions. Well done.
Not everybody gains more happiness by having kids and family. For some people those things can make life more stressful and anxiety ridden. We are all different.
@@raewynhaughton1585 True… but the bottom line was mindset, purpose, finding productive things that interest and/or stimulates you.
Also … learning to be okay with the normal, mundane routine of life.
31:20 this is exactly my mindset, I really want to prioritize peace of mind and just live without so much stress. I'm glad that you said it because I never hear this either. It's so much pressure just to have to prove yourself to everyone that you're not some sort of lazy bum when you believe you achieved enough. One argument one might bring up is one's potential is thwarted because you decide to stop at one moment. My argument against is that is not everyone has to be superman/woman and be excellent in all things. I really enjoy sports and I find that I'm really good and that's what I feel I excel at, however "chasing the bag" or coming up with my own business has never really been my thing. It was always my goal to just live and let live.
I am a history instructor and I'd like to put things in perspective. We are the most privileged people to have ever lived. A Middle Class person today lives better than the kings & queens of Europe of bygone years. Our health is the best, our medicine is the best, we live very long, shall I continue? The fact these two good looking, smart, articulate men are wallowing in pity demonstrates that our lives are far too luxurious. Just 100 years ago, these two men would be out chopping wood because food and warmth were a daily struggle.
They did have one advantage, no smart phone...
@@tonyc223 Good point !! These smart phones are making us dumb. LOL
"People hundreds of years ago had worse problems so stop complaining" empathy at its finest.
@@madnessguy1300 The Ukrainian people are being gunned down in the streets at the moment and we are supposed to care about two very able men whining about their lot in life. Nope. Not I.
Even if you do feel satisfied with life and happy on the inside you will then be targeted by Narcissistic Sociopaths because you have it together which will make you depressed again.
@@JeffCaplan313 also men try to copy your identity and try to make you look bad out of envy.
Just learn to recognize people with these psychological traits so you can shield yourself from them.
We are happy at the end because it's almost over.
lol yeah, you finally have to let go of everything.
It pains me to see men like this. I can see the emotion on the face of a man who holds the door open for me. It is clearly quite mixed. I make sure to thank those men very sincerely. I am decently pretty but have very seldom been approached by men. Mostly I notice interest when a man glances at me and promptly looks at his feet. I internalized this for a long time to mean I was unattractive. Now I know that it is more about the weight of double standards in society, telling them they are wrong to approach women or even enjoy looking at us.
I saw a poster at work about the high suicide rate in construction. It laid out a lot of information, warnings, and solutions. It seems at least someone cares.
They made seat belt laws to save insurance companies money.
@@TheJeremyKentBGross wow really
My advice to men….
• never get married
• never be a stepdad
• never settle for anybody who doesn’t value you or respect you ( so its your job to set out boundaries to keep the blood suckers away, be it men or women )
• never throw out or forget the things that made / make you happy and bring nostalgia to you. I.e music, hobbies etc.
• if you do meet a woman and she tries to control you for the bad of things, get rid of her ! She will destroy your happiness but will always make sure shes happy. Get rid of her !
• if you have the time, get a dog. It will give you a true love that no other human being can give you. Whether that be a woman, your parents or even your own kids. There’s reason a dog is a mans best friend.
This was absolutely phenomenal!
More of this! Thank you gentlemen!
10 years ago (at age 45) I read a book on Affluenza. Sadly, this generally affects most men. So no problem there.
Something tells me psychiatry will just exacerbate the problem, not help it. Knowing the way they've released some studies during the past few years, their goal isn't to help men, but effeminize them.
Great interview. I'd like to comment on the idea of the damage caused by the Victorians.
The Victorian Era has left behind a legacy that's most associated with sexual repression and paying excessive attention to etiquette and manners. This is often seen as negative on the whole. What we must remember though, is that they didn't spring up out of nowhere and their societal and cultural manners were likely solutions to problems they had been dealing with at the time. Problems that most probably don't recognize anymore because we benefit from the solutions they provided for us without even realizing that they did it. While it does seem they went to an extreme, I believe we are seeing and living through an extreme in the opposite direction.
The Victorians may have been sexually oppressed by not acknowledging sexuality, but we are equally oppressed by sexuality by giving it too much attention. It's been called sexual liberation, but its liberation manages to oppress us all the same. Victorian chastity has been replaced by women with dozens, if not hundreds, of sex partners. The corset has been replaced by rampant obesity. Overly ornate dresses for every outing have been replaced by yoga and pajama pants being commonplace in public. Strict adherence to manners as the norm is now replaced by overt rudeness. Required friendly greetings have been replaced by ice cold stares and glares.
In the end, the Victorians may have suppressed their sexuality (and other aspects of society), but we do the exact opposite. We let it roam free and unfettered. In doing so, we become far more enslaved to it than the Victorians ever were. Our lives have become sexual 24/7. From advertisements, to common dress, to movies, books, and we certainly can't forget about all the porn.
We may look back at he Victorians and wonder what they were thinking, but I imagine if they could look forward, they'd be wondering the same about us. I doubt we'd be able to convince them to our way of life.
Yeah I noticed a weird trend of people blaming "boomers" or "Victorians" for stuff, and it just comes off as ignorant. Don't get me wrong, I don't understand them, but I'm aware I don't understand them and their motivations, that they must have had reason for their behaviors actions and attitudes that created what was. If you find a fence in the middle of a field, or a bit of strange legacy code, it's best to find out why it's there before you tear it out or change it. Fixing bugs in legacy systems has an ungodly high chance of creating new bugs who knows where in systems that evolved around it as it was/is. You often have no idea what downstream chaos you will create even in fixing something that's obviously broken.
Boomers are really terrible on the whole, though.
@@sarahrobertson634 Maybe, but I don't know what the legitimate gripe is. It just seems trendy to insult them.
What many, many people don’t appreciate about the Victorian Era is the reality behind the suppressed sexuality was driven by the spread of syphilis, which was as terrifying to the people of the day as AIDS was during the 1980s if not more so. As we know syphilis is a terrible disease that destroys the nervous system of the person who catches it, and couple that with the limited medical knowledge of the Victorian era and you can appreciate that in the complete absence of the availability of treatment for the condition, the only sure fire way to avoid catching it and other sexually transmitted diseases was through abstinence. The idea of Victorian prudishness for no apparent reason is just one of many popular historical myths that get peddled by social commentaries that lack an understanding of the fuller picture and causes.
Regards
@@wattlebough Maybe it's because of my upbringing, but if sexuality was as free as it seems to be today in the Era of birth control prior to syphilis, I can't imagine how any stable families actually formed.
One of the best conversations I have heard on the subject. It can apply to both gender. Thank you both for the words of wisdom.
We’ve lost meaning in society. Men want to provide for an admiring female on the whole. Women now want independence from men by joining the workforce. So the natural/previous state of stasis has moved on or meaning has been forgotten - I’m not sure which. Women competing in the workforce gives men no break from competition. So basically unless men want independence from providing for women and polygamy or isolation provides happiness; we’re lost as a modern society.
Also listening on more…the game to provide will always exist. Each person as to decide what level on the hierarchy they are happiest with. Your personality based on nature and nurture will determine that. There’s no one answer but there are better ones for each individual. But life is hard and the more we advance technologically, the more work and competition there will be. So you have to balance yourself in that game of life based on your personality and values.
Also society demands work to function. Problems hinder the machine. The more society wants, the more work and the less meaningful reward.
Why do you think women wanted to go with their hands dirty in a factory to keep from having to depend on a man? Do you think it's because most women had a good experience with being financially dependent on a man? Wouldn't me and all my lady coworkers love being able to dress like a 50s house wife and wear a cute apron while we cleaned house and cooked....but how many men in this world can hold power over a woman and no misuse it? All you have to do to see why women wanna work is go to any video talking about violence against women and read the comments. "I'd leave but have no income of my own am disabled"
@@Opal5674 I can’t fully understand as a man that but I see your point that was well made.
But rather than ditching men shouldn’t women discuss the problem and work through it together with men? I agree men have many things to attune for. But it’s only by willing cooperation between both men and women that will fix this.
By women giving up on men, you’re giving up on your children too. Men need to understand the problem to fix it. Humiliating weak men won’t help. Women are so clever - they easily outsmart most men and that’s your power. We both need to use our average strengths to best suit each other and ourselves. Anyway thanks for the response. Well made point.
Dating has become impossible due to dating apps. Women have 100s of options and now treat men like crap - ghost all the time, have multiple sugar daddies and really have decided their lives are better single with the variety pack.
Until they hit 30 and want kids
@@W-G By then..well before then infact, men don't want them.
Don't use dating apps. Meet people outside of them, attend events of some sort, friends of friends etc etc
I don't think I totally agree with the historical analysis of the Victorian era. I haven't read his book, but it seems to me Matt Rudd is underplaying the significant negative effects of the sexual revolution in the 60s. I agree that materialism and status jockeying can be a huge source of stress in the lives of men, but I don't think you can just remove that element from life for men. It is in the nature of men to compete for their position in the world. The problem I see is that we do not adequately recognize the achievements of men on a societal scale. Men will do a lot of things for the sake of duty. Brotherhood is a powerful motivator and much of the productivity in the world stems from the ability of men to group together in an attempt to show their worth.
I think it used to be much easier to get respect for normal levels of work, but because of networking effects males have to compete against hyper competent males in order to get a a fraction of the status that a small business owner would get in the 50s or 60s.
I'm 65 and things aren't better now.
My health is compromised now.
Australian ex-military that now has a private practice as a therapist. I can’t work with ex military members because of how the mental health system DOES NOT RECOGNIZE psychotherapy. Doctors barely even understand the difference between psychology and counselling/psychotherapy and clients are surprised how the differences manifest.
It’s hard enough for men to reach out but to be hitting the brick wall where the awareness doesn’t even exist about what supports are out there and are very limited in scope it’s no wonder our mental health is in decline.
Anyway, anyone who wants to talk, I have availability.
Great vid and excellent topic to be bringing awareness to. Stay well everyone.
It's all to do with expectations. Unrealistic expectations = world of pain. Realistic expectations = serenity. So how do you have realistic expectations? Examine the narratives and work out which ones are correct and which ones are not. That's a good starting point. I've had experience of counselling those who are suicidal.
How do you deal with:
1) The fear of terrible things happening (such as becoming homeless)
2) The idea that you should alienate yourself from people and disappear
Polar opposites. The reality of life on one end and fantasy on the other, the ideal is somewhere in between. Positive mental health is awareness and flexibility in your expectations and having self-efficacy to influence the physical world to achieve those expectations. Wishing or hoping for things to be different is a failure strategy.
My husband is an engineer and father. I was so excited to listen to this conversation to I can empathize with my husband
1:07:51 "I feel old one day, and I feel like I was 30 five minutes ago the next day" haha, interestingly put.
This is a good talk. Thanks for posting it.
You find the hero at rock bottom and say: "There's only one way to go from there".
Shinji Ikari: "Hold my Beer"
My instinct is to claim that these discussions are important, however after listening I'm just sitting here falling into a depression because they stated a lot of Truth but no path out.
Great podcast Chris. Love your channel!
My teenage years were difficult and when I got to university I just put everything on pause because I was more interested in the question of meaning. My friends had no answer. Their meaning was getting on with lectures, getting a job. No path is easy.
You can be happy at 100 grand a year? I think you're a bit pampered Chris. Many, many people can only dream of an income like that.
Men will talk if - and only if - we know it's safe. If men don't open up to their wives about their suffering from the pressure they feel, it's because they know jolly well their wives couldn't handle it.
Their wives are probably working as well bringing in equal income.
🎻🎻🎻
Men have always been more "expendable" in the eyes of society. They were the ones who fought in wars while the women and children were protected. Most homeless are men, there are shelters for battered women but none for men who face violence from their spouse, there is a general lack of respect for men these days that is reflected in movies, TV, etc. The divorce courts have been stacked against men for years with no sign of change, and children are taken from dads (one weekend per month visitation if they are lucky) even though recognized statistics show that one of the best predictors of success is a dad (or other father figure) in a child's life, and one of the best predictors of failure is the lack of a dad (or other father figure) in the life of a child.
The short answer to the question "does anyone care about men's mental health" is yes, there are those who care, but there are not very many of these. Some of this is due to the way men react to problems - we tend to pull back into ourselves and try to fix the problems ourselves, while females reach out for help to others. Boys are taught from an early age to "toughen up" and "you got into this mess, now get yourself out", which is both a positive and negative at the same time. It is a positive because boys learn to take responsibility for their lives while their sisters are bailed out and learn that if a problem come along, they should look to a male (or other father figure) to "fix" things. It is a negative because it reinforces the idea that men are alone in life and there is probably something wrong with you if you ask others for help. "Real men handle problems by themselves".
Women don't care about men who are struggling, in my experience.
@@tomclark15 While it is hard to accurately generalize about over 1/2 of the population, I think you are totally correct about most women, especially if you are looking at forming a romantic relationship. There is a segment of female society that is actively attracted to the underdogs / downtrodden, such as homeless men, etc. Whether it is because they want to "fix" them or just have a tender heart for those less fortunate, they either become leaders in movements to help others (which is good) or get into doomed relationships over and over (not good). But I think most women have a blind spot for troubled men and quite frankly don't even see them.
@@tomclark15 They pretend to for their reputation as 'empathetic', but it's only cheap gestures if attention is put on them.
You're fighting reality all the while you try and hold on to the blank slate assumption. It's not upbringing that makes boys and girls different: that is innate and unalterable. It's not how we're educated to deal with the world that has to change, it's the world itself.
Have to admit, I found this conversation a bit superficial and lacking any real insight. Ultimately, humans are more or less the same as we were 100,000 years ago. Men are biologically driven to explore, acquire resources, build, take risks and conquer. Women tend to seek out mates with these qualities. The sad fact is that there aren't many opportunities to do these things in the modern world, which I think is at the root of our unhappiness. We've basically "beaten the game" and now there's nothing more to do. I absolutely *don't* agree that we need to get in touch with our "emotional intelligence" and learn to be more nurturing. If anything we need to find a way for men to express their innate behaviours and to be valued for their strength, resilience and bravery.
Btw - shout out to all the brave men who decide to struggle by on a mere 100K A year
This cause of male ennui and its remedy was well represented in Fight Club.