Tungsten Grind Angles Matter!
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 13. 12. 2018
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First... If you're a weldor and you're not active in the Instagram community, you're really missing out. There are a lot of guys and gals that offer up a lot of tricks of the trade on a daily basis. The community is worth its weight in gold, so be sure to go check it out. Now back to our point... Conversations come up on IG every so often on Tungsten grind angles and what people's preferences are. So many people will comment, "It doesn't matter. I work with what is given to me."
Don't be that guy. While it is important to be able to work with anything, tungsten grind angles matter. Learn how each angle impacts the arc envelope and how the impacts your welds. In this episode we are going to help you do that.
We are going to run four different grind angles:
1. 15Âș Grind Angle: Gives a wide arc envelope and is good for thin material where you don't want a concentrated arc.
2. 30Âș Grind Angle: Good "all purpose angle, as it gives a good, balanced envelope.
3. 30Âș with a Blunt: Good for AC applications as well as getting a concentrated, driving arc. This also helps maintain a good tip.
4. 60Âș Grind Angle: Good if you're trying to drive an arc into a deep fillet. This angle gives a super concentrated arc.
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I've only done 2 tig classes and the teacher goes and sits in his office whole time. I've been probably doing a 15 to 20 grind and have been wondering all week why my welds are super sharp and small. You taught me more in 10 min than what my teacher taught me in 6 hours.
That's how they keep you in school to make money đ°
Welcome to welding school basically the same in my school basically every decent weld Iâve produced has been from CZcams and reading a book. Nothing from my teachers as much
You must go to blueridge lol my tig instructor is the exact same
bingo
Get out of school before its too late
I prefer a 360° tip. Itâs an âall aroundâ good tip. Covers all the angles.
I see what you did there
Not trying to be a dick or anything, but a 360 degree tip would technically be a ball... soooo, when your tungsten balls up, you already got a 360 degree tip!! Haha
So an AC Ball
@Brayan Kashton the next thing for you to do then, is to book a session with a shrink. You have an obsessive control behaviour and people with that ruin all their relationships their own lives and the lives for their closest persons.
Iâm not trolling! Itâs well meant!
Good luck with your personal development
Kind rgds
Anders
Sweden
@@cripplekid0902 is a 180 tip a ball?
I think you might be wrong.
Thanks for the lesson in tungsten angles. I just bought an inverter machine, Blue color, but have never run or owned a tig. Brought up on oxy / acetylene wire welding with coat hangers. First electric welder was a tombstone, Red color. I'm old enough to realize I'll never pass myself off as a certified x-ray quality welder. People like yourself are humble experts with talent you were born with. The rest of us are just amazed to watch your artistry and hope to just improve a little by watching and listening. Thank you sir.
I'm a tig beginner, but I think the big thing Bob forgot to mention in this really excellent video is how the grind angle actually effects the arc plume. From what I've read (and it jibes with my ancient EE courses) the arc come off the surface of the tungsten at a right angle, so that a needle point makes a wider arc plume because the arc goes out almost horizontal as it leaves the electrode and then bends back to the workpiece. And on a blunter angle, like the 60 degree, the arc still comes off at 90 degrees to the surface--but since the grind angle is steeper the arc doesn't have to bend as much to get to the surface of the workpiece, thus a narrower (and hotter) arc results.
Great tip
Thanks I thought it worked along those lines but nice to hear a confirmation đ
Mr. Moffit, as a person who has only been learning to weld for the last 90 days, it seems like I keep learning more and more from your instructional videos. I guess you will tell me you will never know enough. I have read 10 books so far, watched literally hundreds of hours of videos and feel like I know nothing about welding. I want to thank you for your efforts, for I have learned more from you and your videos than all the others combined. Because of you, I now can pull a decent flat bead with different types and sizes of electrodes and you have helped me improve 100% with my MIG. Please keep on, for this disabled person finds refuge in welding and learning.
Wow, you must have not seen any of Jody's videos over at Welding Tips and Tricks. As a 20yr Pipe welder I still learn things from Welding Tips and Tricks, but not so much from Bob's channel.
czcams.com/users/weldingtipsandtricks
Jeez, in order to be politically correct, we find terms worse than the original ones. How can you be disabled, if you are still learning and doing stuff, or, better said, if you are still active???
@@WestCoastMods I watch him as well and Jody is good, but I have learned more about settings from Moffit because he explains why. Nothing against Jody, I have watched every video he has produced here. Now, I am not saying that Jody has not taught me more about TIG, I even own one of his TIG fingers.
@@bogdan_n Guess you have no knowledge about being disabled. Maybe you need to think before you post. Just because I am disabled doesn't mean I am dead FFS.
@@jrcicirello Sir, i mean no disrespect. Au contraire. Daily, i see people with no physical impairments (but with great comportamental deficiencies) who are affraid of learning something new, because then they will have to do it at some point, so, for them is easier to shrug and say "I don't know how to do it... ", while You are still learning something new. Although i'm not a welder, i learned the basics of TIG welding from a 72 yr old, who, despite a severe problem on his right leg, looked like a magician while he was wielding the torch, and that saved me from a whole lot of trouble a few times. I have the deepest respect for anyone who keep themselves active. I just hate that label, as by definition it means deactivated, inoperable. That's all.
Learning to weld like many other things is such a rabbit hole. These videos are super effective. Can't believe how much I've learned that I had zero idea about. Big thanks.
I've been welding over 30 years with tig being the primary. I've played around with various grind angles and found some very interesting results. Try grinding at the 30°angle but instead of spinning the tungsten leave it on the wheel and create a flat side. Do this so you have a 3 or 4 sided pyramid shape. Understood not time saving but the arc is so concentrated at the base of the tungsten with a tiny gas shield. Great for low amperage applications. The arc travels down the points rather than across the entire tungsten and is more controlled. Give it a try
Any more advice for welding aluminum?
Kudos to whoever the editor is. Thanks for just putting the different arcs together it's so nice to see it right after each other then putting filler material between the different tips.
Mr. Bob, Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make each of these videos. I'm currently taking a continuing education class at the local community college, welding of course. We only have class on saturday for 7 hrs. That aint a whole lot of time to learn stick and tig, especially tig. I knew I needed more time behind the shield so i bought the alpha tig 201XD . With the help from your videos and welding each night after work, I'm learning alot. Even ran some beads of aluminum for the first time tonight. Again, Thanks buddy and dont ever stop!
I'm a GC and carpenter by trade. Welding has always been on my skill set bucket list. Your videos are awesome, spot on, and you guys are very knowledgeable instructors. I look forward to learning more.
I am a welding instructor in the uk and still watch and use video and information from here , thank you for sharing
Fantastic camera work in this one guys. Very informative. I just naturally do the 30 degree tip.
Im a Professional stainless tig welder and live by the 15° angle on my tungsten it was absolutely the key in going from getting by to getting good. Love your videos have been a faithful watcher since I started in the trade
Whatâs the reason for the 15 * angle on stainless?
The amount of knowledge being shared is incredible. Thank you for taking the time to share the love and teach the correct methodology
I recently bought a tig welding machine, now I'm starting to learn.
it was very helpful to me, thank you!
Very interesting. I would like to see the same thing with the tungstens at 45 degrees in a 90 degree fillet to see how the arc is affected by side walls. Good camera work.
Thank you sir for all your efforts, I have learned a lot from you. Happy holidays, cheers! đ»
The reason for the blunting of the tip is that the arc actually burn from about 1/16 back from the tip and gives a more stable arc sharp tips fragment and leave inclusions in the weld
I set my machine hot hot hot and regulate with the pedal, so °30 blunt is where its at. If I screw the pooch and mash the gas I don't gotta get worked up about blowing off a point.
As always sir, great video. Others have talked about grinding and showing some welding, but showing the different grinds in a stationary video taught me more than others have.
Now you can go check it Jody Collier's video on tungsten grinds and penetration at WeldingTipsAndTricks. Both channels seem to function well together!
I'm sad I never took classes down there. I lived in Winfield for years, and never knew this shop existed!
A big thanks for showing us the difference between the different angles and how they affect the weld puddle. Thanks again. Phil
Plenty of 30 deg. Grinds with a Piranha Tungsten Grinder here! Thanks for the videos Bob.
Wish you did 45° and straight flat too. Have an old miller book with a lot of cool TIG info in there and they show etchings of cross sections on welds and itâs fascinating. So good to see a high quality video displaying this info.
This is great info. I never put much thought into my grind angle. Thank you! The video is perfect when watched at 125% speed.
I seem to sharpen my tungsten between 25 and 30 degrees, though occasionally I'll blunt the tip just a little bit during passes to fill over root passes. With aluminum AC welding though, I use a blunted 35 degree angle, and it usually balls up pretty nice.
Thanks! Just starting to learn Tig and thought pointier was better, now I know to try out wider angles for fillet welding.
I'm a professional tig welder. I use super sharp always on stainless, with footpedal and I set my gas up on my cheek....a slight breeze. Footpedal is the key to controlling the arc.
Yea did that the other day except I had the tungsten in and zapped myself. Wonât be doing that again!
Hahaha I love the ending. Great educational material.
I really like your laid-back street-ish attitude and also that floppy backwards cap, or whatever it is. First video I ever watched on your channel and made me subscribe. Thanks for this; Very educational and entertaining.
Might be a good idea to give a basic explanation of how the electrons flow on the surface of the tungsten and the angle that is ground at the tip will determine penetration. the wider the angle the more penetration generally, especially if you grind a flat spot on the end of the tungsten. Thin material will need a very narrow angle so you are less likely to burn through. Just my experience with tungsten grinding after 40 years of welding.
@REPUBBLICA ITALIANA what about them?
yes i have noticed that also, making a very sharp tip makes the arc spread out which is the opposite of what you sometimes want to achieve when grinding the tip
So pretty much the sharper the top the wider the arc? Wow I guess I been complicating my job more than what it should lol
i usually us a ~30° angle with a ~35-40° bevel at the tip
this is the grind i use for pretty much all welds i do at work
I always kinda liked a bit more to the 20 deg side, more if trying to fill and blend and overlay.... but all angles do different. thanks for another fun vid.
LOL! That ending!
Great video and advice, thank you!
Would love to see the part 2 to this video! Please do it.
Yes this is exactly what I am missing... I use an eastwood grinder but it only sharpens it to a fine point unless you intervene changing the angle yourself. It's really nice tool but I don't think its the one size fits all solution for tungsten grinding like they claim. Many different tip points that I still don't fully understand yet.. Thank you for this video.
Yes please!
It's been two years, was the part two made?
Very interesting video
Great and informative videos always. These are great videos to help inform welding students while doing their theory classes.Thank you for sharing your welding knowledge and experience with us. Wondering if you have any videos regarding the use of gas lenses for TIG Welding? Thanks
Time to say Merry Christmas and a safe Happy New Year to you and your family from an old man who wishes he new what you have fogo
I use the 15 when I do roots on pipe. Chrome, stainless, carbon. Gives me lots of control.
For the math-nerd types...
*The reason for the inverse nature of the grind to the depth, it's the 90° - grind° * 2Ï = total arc degrees.*
*Then you take the surface, and it's a plane/line that extends through the arc you just made, Take the amps times the segment intersection length / total arc degree = surface percent energy transfer.*
Should have shown the final welds on the steel you tested your angles on...
Bob, Watching you is ALWAYS Helpfull, Thank you So Much!
Thanks for this. Thereâs a lot to learn. Nothing beats practice.
Everything about tig welding is super critical.Nice lesson.
Great vid, great information for all the new tiggers out there.
For root and fill of 316L stainless pipe, I preferred 30°. I would go with 15° to cap. I would get a nice silver or light gold cap depending on the schedule.
Hello sir I do enjoy your videos as you explain things very clearly and very well I have watched a few of your videos and I keep coming back to learn more thank you for doing the wall job
This dude speaks with the authority of "done fucked up, then learned how to fix it, now mastered it." No BS or jargon... Thanks.
Love your a50! Im doing pinstripes on my as i watch this
It would be nice to see a still shot of all of the grinds lit up beside each other.
Scott King yep I second that Scott
7656
YES ! and the weld from each as well.
Thanks Bob! Being a noob to TIG and struggling to find good techniques, your videos are clear, informative and very helpful.
Be nice to the camera dude. Itâs difficult to hold a Tigue torch, welding rod and a camera too. How about teaching the camera dude how toTIG weld and you run the camera? That should be a hoot.
Merry Christmas.
Been trying to do just that for years.
Bob, It appears that the blunt tip (60°) electrodes heat up faster than the (15°) tips, does this effect the weld quality?
Thanks for informative vids.
One would think it would be the opposite. Sometimes you get surprised. Comparison video like this helps.
What I do I use between 15 and 30 .
Could you go into the why a bit more? prolly wonât affect things from a performance standpoint but itâs interesting to know the how and why the tip affects the arc.
Super good videoclip. Thanks a lot "Professor"!!!!
Good broad info... amperage, how the tungsten is ground, oscillation of the arc and why, etcetera would go along way to help folks wanting to improve their tig skill set for the main purpose of just that. From welding decades on ferrous and non, thin ( .0015") on HP turbine blade tips to thick ( 8.0" ) Turbine walls 100% all the way out, X-Ray repairs, to GF at every G.E. and Westinghouse, and 3 different Airlines... the pay gets better and allows so much more help raising families, especially in this everyday excuse of our post Covid country. Enjoyed your content... just wish we could reach more. My comment is only trying to give you more ideas and thanks... Seth
Love my tig welding! Great advice to hone the craft and skill!
I like the blunt tip for mild steel . Keeps the crud off
Good video Bob!! Thanks for the video.
Lowering my cfh down to 15ish from 25 really stabilized my arc..really surprised me!! Always thought more was better wen it came to that stuff..
I think it was This Old Tony who did a good comparison on gas loads. Too much gas makes a venturi and sucks in atmospheric gasses into the arc, as well as blows the arc around.
i always run a 60 degree grind angle, but i almost only weld pipes and it makes a really big difference when welding stainless pipes and you need to totally penetrate the metal.
I didn't have anything to add during my first time watching this video because I was tired, but I've got one tip that I have used a lot.
Say if you're using that 15° grind on your thin metal etc, you can always regrind the tip of the tungsten and it entirely changes characteristics of how your arc performs. High science, it's something that is useful in a pinch or if you're not within reach of a grinder... Once I put my initial 30° grind on my tungsten pack, I'll use a my diamond whetstone for my pocket knives to refresh the tip or regrind it.
Let's say you blunt 20% or less of that initial 15° tungsten grind after your tungsten collects foreign residue on the tip after incinerating it out of your parent metal... You can regrind however much of the sharpened area you want into one of the other grinds. I'll often take that 15° and put a 60° on the very tip using while less than 80% of the total sharpened area to give the initial grind some more penetration/depth.
Doing that will make your arc characteristics an amalgamation of both grinds. You'll no longer waste amps away on the surface trying to get the puddle formed as the 15° grind would normally do alone and it'll punch down into your parent metal much, much faster. It tightens up the arc from a max width plume and focuses about 80% of the energy down into the parent metal. *It's really great for aluminum and you don't always have to run it blunt.*
The secret is in the shoulder of the grind and the tip of the tungsten! The drawn out portion doesn't have any real effect on arc other than current capacity and total working time before the tungsten craps out due to the needle-like tip being incapable of dissipating the heat. It's all calculus and how the energy is directed to a focal point at the end...
That's the beauty in breaking down and just buying your own machine; it may not make you much better of a welder than you already were before you bought it, but it'll make you that much more of an efficient welder when you have time to observe these things that you don't usually have time to do at work.. unless you're looking to load your box and drag up anyways! đ€Ł
Great video brother. I teach my apprentices to try different angles also depending on what they're welding on.
Tig welders: Grinding angles.
Me: Haha, Mig go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Excellent camera work!
Thank you Sir ! Every time I watch one of your videos, I learn something I didn't know yesterday. Thank You again !
Yes please show us more . Would love to see the blunt action on some aluminum
Thank you so much for your input you truly are awesome
Thanks for the pointers. I work in a meat processing plant so everything in there is stainless with a few pieces of equipment that have aluminum. I used to be able to weld alum. When i worked in industrial repair and fabrication but seemed to have lost my way in this plant.
Bob *pokes sharp point*
Bob "dang thats sharp"
Bob *pikachu meme*
Bob pokes finger with sharp object, Hmmm why did that hurt, MOMMY!
@Stan Rodgers
Thatâs me!!!
A classmate asked me to retrieve a couple pieces of metal from the scrap bin because he wanted to show them to the instructor.
I didnât think anything of it and reached in with my bare hand and lifted them out of the bin!
The classmate had just been welding on them and I pulled them all the way out of the bin before I felt the pain!!!
@@AzzKicker-bz1cb outch!!!
Necessary & largely not emphasized, but extremely important!
Thanks just had a situation last week with splatter & heat on material surfaces but we didn't try to angle tks!!
Thank you Bob! Great information, yep them tips can be sharp, and yep the camera was on lol! #!$%*! Camera guy....... đ€Łđđđ€Ł đđ
I most use the 60 ° but when using puls welding the 30° blunt works very well.
Awesome stuff sir. Please tell me you guys got a hold of Travis too....
Suggestion for another video, something interesting and important that we can't see ourselves: The AC cleaning action on Aluminum or Copper, shown up close and in slow motion! There's often a sense of flickering down there on the surface, like little bits of lightning, I bet it would be something to see in high-speed video!
Always educational bob.
I never would have thought. Next time I have to sharpen the tungsten on my everlast welder I now know better.
Good old Bob! I miss him! I always thought people liked those sharp points because it's easy to start, the tip gets hot quickly. Also historically when people used Chem-sharp, I think it tended to do that. As far as I know the arc density is higher with a blunter point, people used to use a BALL END, which is pretty blunt, and it could just be FLAT. If I read it right the flat end would have the most current density, the narrowest arc, and people don't use it because it would be harder to start.
What're your thoughts on the chemical sharpening products? They give a crazy sharp tip but I haven't been able to get consistent angles.
Your write up somewhat explained the effects on the arc, but a drawing explaining what you are accomplishing would be more helpfull. đ
I have been using 90* angle on steel and aluminium. It works well. You have to lower the amperage though.
Thanks Bob, I always learn something from your videos.
Some measurements etched into the base metal so that we could get a more accurate sense of the dimensions of the cone would be nice
I was hoping to see a cross section of penetration and all 4 still shots of the weld pools in a row or collage at the same time for comparison...
but still this was a good video to get educated about grinding tungsten. cheers
Can't wait for part 2!
I came into this video very serious but completely lost it at "ow, that's sharp!" đ€Ł đ€Ł đ€Ł đ€Ł đ€Ł đ€Ł
Almost spit my drink when he pricked himself with the tungsten haha. Even the old boys do it after many years.
thanks Bob, Merry Christmas to you all there,,
trying to learn on aluminum, it looks to me that blunt end sends the arc straight down into the work. At least the pictures of it look that way to me. Would this help penetration? seems logical to me. Alluminum acts different to an arc as well. with AC and cleaning action.
I must experiment more...
thanks for the video.... it's very informative.
Great teacher thankyou for putting in so much effort and you gave me the idea of perhaps having a few electrodes ready to the side to swap to as the weld requires. I have to weld a thin wall 2.5 inch tube to a casting - any tips would be very appreciated lots much đim thinking of an electrode ground 60 /15 to get the arc high on the casting side
I grind with a flap wheel. I have no idea what the angle is, but it works in the field. I'm totally gonna get me a dedicated tungsten grinder though, so I can confirm I'm doing it right.
Canât wait for part 2
I GOT MY FIRST AC/DC WELDER AND AFTER TESTING FOR A WEEK I THINK I WILL SHARPEN TIP ONLY MAYBE FOR VERY SMALL CURRENT.
I AM ACTUALLY PLANNING ON USING ONLY 3.2 AND 4.0 MM TUNGSTEN AND ONLY SHARPEN DIFFERENTLY DEPENDING ON THICKNESS - I.E. POINTED FOR SMALL CURRENT AND THIN MATERIALS AND EVEN BLUNT FOR BIGGER SIZE...BUT I AM NOT SURE HOW IT WILL AFFECT WANDERING OF THE ARC
GREAT CHANNEL FOR LEARNING
Cool video always wondered about this! đ
I didnât know that it was a âthingâ to use E3 tungstens for DC tig .... most guys i know use E3 on AC ...
Also if you look at that 15 degree grind. It does âjust fineâ or at least a whole lot better on much lower amps !
How many amps were you running at 100? I mean a 3/32 should be able to âtake thatâ but then again that is a pretty sharp grind .... so you would have to look more like current carrying capacity of a 1/16 maybe even 040....
That sharp grind could also stand a shorter arc than 1/8â
thanks for the pro tip Mr Moffet
great video Bob..well explained..you need to sort your camera man out though! he'll be expecting pay one day! :)
Aerospace welder here. Run 718 inco all day. 27 degree is my personal fav. Usually run 0.040â material.
Awesome vid. Thanks for the education.
Being from the aerospace field, do you notice a lot a horrible info in these videos? Ive found that almost every welding video ive seen has bad info. It's so funny to see ppl over look all the critical theoretical practices.
My buddy gave me some inconel MIG wire to play with but I haven't tried it yet
The camera gangster đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł that's the final straw, I'm enrolling at Cowley College!!!!
A very information packed video for us all to see. So the sharp 30 degree angle is your favorite grind. How often does one need to sharpen this sharp point ?? Peace VF
Very Grateful for these videos, thank you
Hey, you all have a tutorial on how to video welding? That would be cool!