Interesting to note that the alchemists movement pattern seems to match that of the alchemists throwing potions in earlier layers! The idea that holy mountains portals are equivalent to traveling through time, is a very interesting one - they are not really geographically connected unless you have very particular types of magic available to you. The side-biomes perhaps being an extra idea as to what is going on in each "time" - either extra guarded stuff, or untamed wilds. The collapsed mines turning into a fungal biome due to hiisii being unable to deal with them (they are busy enough with the mines themselves!). Then, as they tame the mines at it turns into hiisii base (after going through a rough winter dealing with worms and ukko, by the power of friendship and snowmen!). After that - they finally realize their ambitions, hiisii base is complete, they dig for gold and experiment, they are highly technologically advanced, no side-biomes untamed. Not quite sure what the narrative on the jungle would be - perhaps they go exploring, perhaps they grew careless, but the 2nd to last floor certainly seems to point to a combination of both the hiisii base and the jungle. The side-biomes being much more untamed jungle (and lukki lairs). Perhaps, the lukki are a result of experimentation, perhaps simply wild animals. I lean towards experimentation - mimics with legs, the fact that we have perks that turn us into lukki (and can have them as a minion, even), and the fact that no equivalent of them are available (except perhaps the small spider-bros in the earlier levels, that might be what was experimented with?). Notably, the wild spiders, often found in packs, can be found in the LAST area to be put inside pots - this points to them being a subject of experimentation. At this point, the hiisii have dabbled in esoteric arts, they are beyond recognition, and the side-biomes point to their immense craftsmanship (tower, master of master area). Perhaps, the lukki are sent by kolmi, or perhaps the lukki are a progression towards the creation of kolmi. We see other zones in the world where hiisii have created various types of kolmi, whether by accident (meat kolmi, pyramid kolmi, mech kolmi!). Perhaps, the conneiseur of wands is related somehow. They certainly LOOK somewhat similar. Where yialkimisti and master of masters come in to the picture, how they are related, and whether they perhaps are the same character at different points in time, I don't know, but first floor having both yialkimisti and conneiseur of wands, with the last floor having both master of masters and kolmi (and mecha-kolmi. Notably, pyramid kolmi is not connected to any of the biomes without breaking through the densest rocks. I find it plausible that the pyramid is actually the original mountains/mines, at some other point in time, rather than geographically different - there's one music box in each geographical overworld zone, perhaps it is the same music box. Perhaps, the overworld zones are an idea for what might be going on. There's winter to the left, summer to the right (or frozen wastes and desert, if you will). Whether these should be considered separate in time or not, I don't know, but it's a funny thing. It's for certain that separate locations are not to be thought of as actually located as where they really are in the world-map. After all, the portals take you to all sorts of wacky places that don't correspond well to anything (except extradimensional space of some sort, perhaps). Actually, after consulting with the map, I am even more certain of this - only ONE "main" biome, is attached to a certain overworld zone, through cavernous networks and whatnot, and they do not map backwards to one another in a "clean" way. That certainly indicates some level of intent from the developers (whether narrative or not). So, some portals teleporting you through time, seems fitting. Makes sense that you'd have healing, spell recharges and even time to tinker with your wands in there too. Makes even more sense that it would ANGER the gods, if you decide on your own to go against this and "time-travel" by breaking out of the holy mountain in an "improper" way. Either way, very interesting video, clearly got me thinking about the lore of the game in a way I hadn't before. Very cool LST!
I think that ultimately, with the transition between the Hisii base and the Jungle, its not exactly a "warming" cycle, more along the lines that Hisii are now taking the fight to nature. just like in the Snowy Depths, nature starts to hit back (though I feel its more like the story of how Hisii are overtaking every biome in the world) Ultamatly I think you could make a concise argument for this theory, but I also feel the side biomes need to be visited more. you mentioned in the Vault that this was Hisii eliminating nature, but I really feel it might be their "home" or where Hisii originate from. this is also important due to the fact that there are locations like the Frozen Vault (Aka what Hisii base turned into possibly) or even the Power Plant. The Sandcave might even be them concurring the deasert (if we take "going down" as going down the timeline. Though, the question of how Hell also fits into this, or The Sky (and the moon) plays into this. Moreover, we have now Sky Islands too so they may be brought into this Lastly, really important theme of Corruption with Brickwork there are more and more evidence to show the connection between Holy places (with brickwork that is extremely durable and NIH indestructable) and UNholy places (or places of Hisii corruption) these are places like to the left of the tree in the Ancient Labratory the Ominous Temple, the Watchtower, The Floating Islands, Magical Temple and Wizards Den (especially wizards den as its instead Odd Brickwork which has funky alchemy)) overall interesting theory but could use some refinement
@@superawesomegoku6512 Aye, refinement definatly needed XD Depends how complex you want the theory and if that complexity was needed to complete the theory or more of a companion to the main biome theory and not essencial. Could go both ways. I'll read through your message in greater attention when 8.30am not slept yet attention is not an issue :P I appreciate the effort in the reply and will send a proper reply to it all tomorrow when I'm more in tune with reality :P
I think "going down" might need to be revisited as an assumption of progression of timeline. You jump into the mines, explore it, and then you take a PORTAL through time - you only ever go left-right->down (portal). You always enter a biome from the top (original entrance, holy mountain exits). I think that initial drop into all biomes, could viably be considered the "same" position. The jungle is a weird case, though. Perhaps some are different geographical regions. The overworld and side-biomes are connected (but only one region of the overworld per side-biome matching a single holy mountain - without angering the gods or digging through dense rocks forever!). I think those parts of the overworld are parts of the overworld at different points in time - perhaps pointing to the true geographical area of the hiisii base, vs off-shoot hiisii exploration. My going hypothesis is that the pyramid is actually built from the original mountain over the first biome. It matches with the orb of knowledge. Tangentially, I wonder where the orbs of knowledges lines up in terms of how many there are, connected in this fashion to the individual biomes, and if there is a connection there which might reveal something - perhaps the spells unlocked and the altar information is related on this timeline, perhaps not. (and what do we make of the chasm between the first and third biome). The first biome separating conneiseur (which I now believe to be a proto-kolmi, which they "tame" and steal magic from), from yialkimisti (initial hiisii overlord - an alchemist learning the magical arts) is interesting - they are separated by both darkness (indicating lack of knowledge?) and lava + a old bridge (indicating it may be from a time long past to the remaining hiisii?). I'm taking a lot of liberties here, as we're working on a very loose base and probably need to think about what type of "big picture" makes this all actually come together. But I think this way of thinking about the world of Noita is extremely interesting, there's probably something to it.
I am completely down with these theories, I love this deep dive. I feel like the fungal caverns definitely introduce the beginning of the civilization phase of the Hiisi. They begin to take on specialized roles and masteries, and the jump in technological prowess. Stoned Hiisi Theory is based. I feel like the Holy Mountains can be interpreted as a rebirth cycle, passing each phase of Hiisi history like succeeding and advancing generations until the Work is completed. This game is so profound.
Hey LST, love your videos and this was a particularly interesting one. Some thoughts: 1. The Hisii (if im not mistaken) are the only enemies in the game that can pick up and fire wands, which i think is further evidence to suggest the Hisii are trying to conquer magic. 2. Its interesting that there are Hisii in the overworld around the ruins. It doesn't appear as though they travel above the tree to get there, but rather took the underground route and went back up. There are those acid monsters that seem to protect the Tree from Mina (and perhaps the Hisii). Given the acid guys are still there suggests the hisii didnt go that route, otherwise the acid guys would be dead. 3. What's up with the bridge to the west of the tree? The entrance and exit of the bridge are always unnaturally deep under snow. Is that biome naturally cold? Perhaps the Hisii brought the cold? Same thing with the desert to the east. Is it naturally a desert, or somehow courrupted by the Hisii? Maybe its our job as Mina to return the world to nature?
weird you didnt mention the plant formation in hisi base where poision wine plant grows, thats all around jungle, implying that all of jungle could be the result of hisi teraforming
could the distillation or concentration of magic forces down into crystals have exposed people to dangerous magical mutagenics that otherwise wouldn't ever have existed? the green crystals shooting out poison liquid and causing cursed rock strongly feels like nuclear/industrial waste containment failure, or perhaps like the french red zones
you stopped by one of the guys that loose there heads and said 'monsters', well the guys that have the electric head and throw fire ive had pick up a nuke wand on me so what are they? cause other than ukko not many upright creatures that can use wands
They just assholes is what they are XD Aye, The wiki will have all the enemys alliance names. Its an interesting one. Although wand use was more of a side thing rarther than any crux of the discussion I feel ^^ One to think on tho cheers :)
Hi LST. Post in response to this any Finnish you want translating as I have a few Finnish friends that said they'll have a go and I'll post it back in here for you.
HiSii have outside explorers,,, pyramid could be a lost civilisation kinda deal,,, that or it just fits in the timeline in an unknown place. Not sure why would need explaining really. Pyramid is just kinda 'there' innit XD
The pyramid is built from the original mountain at a different point in time, after the hiisii have perfected their craft and started dabbling in the esoteric (experimenting with Kolmi-creatures - perhaps the same kolmi at different points in time). Conneiseur of wands is what later "became" kolmi, after hiisii experimentation. I think it probably fits roughly between the timeline of the two last biomes.
Interesting to note that the alchemists movement pattern seems to match that of the alchemists throwing potions in earlier layers! The idea that holy mountains portals are equivalent to traveling through time, is a very interesting one - they are not really geographically connected unless you have very particular types of magic available to you.
The side-biomes perhaps being an extra idea as to what is going on in each "time" - either extra guarded stuff, or untamed wilds. The collapsed mines turning into a fungal biome due to hiisii being unable to deal with them (they are busy enough with the mines themselves!).
Then, as they tame the mines at it turns into hiisii base (after going through a rough winter dealing with worms and ukko, by the power of friendship and snowmen!).
After that - they finally realize their ambitions, hiisii base is complete, they dig for gold and experiment, they are highly technologically advanced, no side-biomes untamed. Not quite sure what the narrative on the jungle would be - perhaps they go exploring, perhaps they grew careless, but the 2nd to last floor certainly seems to point to a combination of both the hiisii base and the jungle. The side-biomes being much more untamed jungle (and lukki lairs). Perhaps, the lukki are a result of experimentation, perhaps simply wild animals. I lean towards experimentation - mimics with legs, the fact that we have perks that turn us into lukki (and can have them as a minion, even), and the fact that no equivalent of them are available (except perhaps the small spider-bros in the earlier levels, that might be what was experimented with?).
Notably, the wild spiders, often found in packs, can be found in the LAST area to be put inside pots - this points to them being a subject of experimentation.
At this point, the hiisii have dabbled in esoteric arts, they are beyond recognition, and the side-biomes point to their immense craftsmanship (tower, master of master area). Perhaps, the lukki are sent by kolmi, or perhaps the lukki are a progression towards the creation of kolmi. We see other zones in the world where hiisii have created various types of kolmi, whether by accident (meat kolmi, pyramid kolmi, mech kolmi!). Perhaps, the conneiseur of wands is related somehow. They certainly LOOK somewhat similar. Where yialkimisti and master of masters come in to the picture, how they are related, and whether they perhaps are the same character at different points in time, I don't know, but first floor having both yialkimisti and conneiseur of wands, with the last floor having both master of masters and kolmi (and mecha-kolmi. Notably, pyramid kolmi is not connected to any of the biomes without breaking through the densest rocks. I find it plausible that the pyramid is actually the original mountains/mines, at some other point in time, rather than geographically different - there's one music box in each geographical overworld zone, perhaps it is the same music box.
Perhaps, the overworld zones are an idea for what might be going on. There's winter to the left, summer to the right (or frozen wastes and desert, if you will). Whether these should be considered separate in time or not, I don't know, but it's a funny thing. It's for certain that separate locations are not to be thought of as actually located as where they really are in the world-map. After all, the portals take you to all sorts of wacky places that don't correspond well to anything (except extradimensional space of some sort, perhaps). Actually, after consulting with the map, I am even more certain of this - only ONE "main" biome, is attached to a certain overworld zone, through cavernous networks and whatnot, and they do not map backwards to one another in a "clean" way. That certainly indicates some level of intent from the developers (whether narrative or not).
So, some portals teleporting you through time, seems fitting. Makes sense that you'd have healing, spell recharges and even time to tinker with your wands in there too. Makes even more sense that it would ANGER the gods, if you decide on your own to go against this and "time-travel" by breaking out of the holy mountain in an "improper" way.
Either way, very interesting video, clearly got me thinking about the lore of the game in a way I hadn't before. Very cool LST!
I think that ultimately, with the transition between the Hisii base and the Jungle, its not exactly a "warming" cycle, more along the lines that Hisii are now taking the fight to nature. just like in the Snowy Depths, nature starts to hit back (though I feel its more like the story of how Hisii are overtaking every biome in the world)
Ultamatly I think you could make a concise argument for this theory, but I also feel the side biomes need to be visited more. you mentioned in the Vault that this was Hisii eliminating nature, but I really feel it might be their "home" or where Hisii originate from. this is also important due to the fact that there are locations like the Frozen Vault (Aka what Hisii base turned into possibly) or even the Power Plant. The Sandcave might even be them concurring the deasert (if we take "going down" as going down the timeline. Though, the question of how Hell also fits into this, or The Sky (and the moon) plays into this. Moreover, we have now Sky Islands too so they may be brought into this
Lastly, really important theme of Corruption with Brickwork there are more and more evidence to show the connection between Holy places (with brickwork that is extremely durable and NIH indestructable) and UNholy places (or places of Hisii corruption) these are places like to the left of the tree in the Ancient Labratory the Ominous Temple, the Watchtower, The Floating Islands, Magical Temple and Wizards Den (especially wizards den as its instead Odd Brickwork which has funky alchemy))
overall interesting theory but could use some refinement
I actually might make a reply video
@@superawesomegoku6512 Aye, refinement definatly needed XD Depends how complex you want the theory and if that complexity was needed to complete the theory or more of a companion to the main biome theory and not essencial. Could go both ways. I'll read through your message in greater attention when 8.30am not slept yet attention is not an issue :P I appreciate the effort in the reply and will send a proper reply to it all tomorrow when I'm more in tune with reality :P
@@LetsSufferTogether Its kinda evolving into a "What the hell are the Hisii"
I think "going down" might need to be revisited as an assumption of progression of timeline.
You jump into the mines, explore it, and then you take a PORTAL through time - you only ever go left-right->down (portal). You always enter a biome from the top (original entrance, holy mountain exits). I think that initial drop into all biomes, could viably be considered the "same" position. The jungle is a weird case, though. Perhaps some are different geographical regions.
The overworld and side-biomes are connected (but only one region of the overworld per side-biome matching a single holy mountain - without angering the gods or digging through dense rocks forever!). I think those parts of the overworld are parts of the overworld at different points in time - perhaps pointing to the true geographical area of the hiisii base, vs off-shoot hiisii exploration.
My going hypothesis is that the pyramid is actually built from the original mountain over the first biome. It matches with the orb of knowledge. Tangentially, I wonder where the orbs of knowledges lines up in terms of how many there are, connected in this fashion to the individual biomes, and if there is a connection there which might reveal something - perhaps the spells unlocked and the altar information is related on this timeline, perhaps not. (and what do we make of the chasm between the first and third biome).
The first biome separating conneiseur (which I now believe to be a proto-kolmi, which they "tame" and steal magic from), from yialkimisti (initial hiisii overlord - an alchemist learning the magical arts) is interesting - they are separated by both darkness (indicating lack of knowledge?) and lava + a old bridge (indicating it may be from a time long past to the remaining hiisii?).
I'm taking a lot of liberties here, as we're working on a very loose base and probably need to think about what type of "big picture" makes this all actually come together. But I think this way of thinking about the world of Noita is extremely interesting, there's probably something to it.
I am completely down with these theories, I love this deep dive. I feel like the fungal caverns definitely introduce the beginning of the civilization phase of the Hiisi. They begin to take on specialized roles and masteries, and the jump in technological prowess. Stoned Hiisi Theory is based. I feel like the Holy Mountains can be interpreted as a rebirth cycle, passing each phase of Hiisi history like succeeding and advancing generations until the Work is completed. This game is so profound.
Hey LST, love your videos and this was a particularly interesting one. Some thoughts:
1. The Hisii (if im not mistaken) are the only enemies in the game that can pick up and fire wands, which i think is further evidence to suggest the Hisii are trying to conquer magic.
2. Its interesting that there are Hisii in the overworld around the ruins. It doesn't appear as though they travel above the tree to get there, but rather took the underground route and went back up. There are those acid monsters that seem to protect the Tree from Mina (and perhaps the Hisii). Given the acid guys are still there suggests the hisii didnt go that route, otherwise the acid guys would be dead.
3. What's up with the bridge to the west of the tree? The entrance and exit of the bridge are always unnaturally deep under snow. Is that biome naturally cold? Perhaps the Hisii brought the cold? Same thing with the desert to the east. Is it naturally a desert, or somehow courrupted by the Hisii? Maybe its our job as Mina to return the world to nature?
Mages and Elemental creatures can also pick up wands; basically any humanoid enemy can do it.
weird you didnt mention the plant formation in hisi base where poision wine plant grows, thats all around jungle, implying that all of jungle could be the result of hisi teraforming
could the distillation or concentration of magic forces down into crystals have exposed people to dangerous magical mutagenics that otherwise wouldn't ever have existed?
the green crystals shooting out poison liquid and causing cursed rock strongly feels like nuclear/industrial waste containment failure, or perhaps like the french red zones
you stopped by one of the guys that loose there heads and said 'monsters', well the guys that have the electric head and throw fire ive had pick up a nuke wand on me so what are they? cause other than ukko not many upright creatures that can use wands
They just assholes is what they are XD Aye, The wiki will have all the enemys alliance names. Its an interesting one. Although wand use was more of a side thing rarther than any crux of the discussion I feel ^^ One to think on tho cheers :)
Hi LST. Post in response to this any Finnish you want translating as I have a few Finnish friends that said they'll have a go and I'll post it back in here for you.
I appreciate that ma dude, thank you ^^
explain the pyramids.
no u ^^
HiSii have outside explorers,,, pyramid could be a lost civilisation kinda deal,,, that or it just fits in the timeline in an unknown place. Not sure why would need explaining really. Pyramid is just kinda 'there' innit XD
The pyramid is built from the original mountain at a different point in time, after the hiisii have perfected their craft and started dabbling in the esoteric (experimenting with Kolmi-creatures - perhaps the same kolmi at different points in time).
Conneiseur of wands is what later "became" kolmi, after hiisii experimentation. I think it probably fits roughly between the timeline of the two last biomes.