Ukrainian Autocephaly & "Canonicity"
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2023
- Dr. Sr. Vassa Larin discusses the concepts of what is "canonical," "un-canonical," and the Orthodox canonical principle of "oikonomia," and how all these relate to the issue of the Ukrainian Church's "autocephaly" (independent status). For Sister Vassa's podcasts go to: patreon.com/sistervassa.
Well said Sister. Your heartfelt concern for our deeply divided Church brings to the forefront many difficult issues concerning our hierarchy. The Orthodox Church in America seeks to unite all Orthodox Christians regardless of ethnicity. I am afraid that the divisions between jurisdictions go beyond the canons and falls in the area of humans in power failing to put the needs of the people before their own agendas. Please continue to speak out against the injustices being perpetrated on innocent people. Lord have mercy on us all.🙏🏽
Thank you Sister! The situation with our many jurisdictions is just sickening, and has cut my family in pieces more than once over the years. In our town, Orthodox unity has been destroyed. Your analysis is helpful in so many ways.
Thank you, Sister Vassa! A most excellent lecture!
This was amazing, Sister! You touch on various documents and Canons that have led me to remain a Melkite and continue working toward Holy Unia. I also learned a LOT! ❤☦️
This same Oikonomia could be the sword that slashes the Gordian knot of the Melkite Catholic Church's involuntary separation with our Sister Church, the Antiochian Orthodox jurisdiction. Especially considering the uncanonical outside interference in our Patriarchical elections in 1672 and 1724.
Great conclusion! ❤
Thank you Sr. Vassa.
Thank you!
God protect Met Onurphy and UOC
This article has many applications that is very useful in multiple facets of our modern day issues, speaking as a Copt. Additionally it also helped me understand Christology better, especially when thinking of “economy” as “building up of” and “appropriate management of”. Thank you Sister Vassa for this gem of an article. Where will this be published?
Thanks, Mina. This will be published in a volume on Conciliarity. I believe it's called Blackwell's Handbook on Conciliarity, if I remembered that correctly.
Christ is in 2 natures
@@shiningdiamond5046 Christ is also in 2 hearts, mine and yours
Love the book simple sweet great ❤
Hi sister Vassa. I will come to USA as a monk. I need some of your advises.
I have a study now, can you contact me? I do research on this topic. I need some help, If you can.
You can contact Sister Vassa at coffeewithsistervassa@gmail.com.
Христос Воскресе! Уважаемая сестра Васса, можно узнать у Вас какую Церковь в Украине вы считаете каноничной и автокефальной?Спаси Господи!
А к какой церкви она сама принадлежит?
@@Kutuz66 я так поняла к РПЦ З
Только русская православная церковь, само собой, с непогрешимым кирюшей яхтовым, патриархом мерседесным.
Христос воскрес! А чи можна було б переклад на Українську чи російську мову? Спаси Господь
Воїстину Воскрес. ТАк увімкніть переклад субтітрів
www.kiev-orthodox.org/site/theology/7350/
Thanks, I'm 25 minutes in. Thoughts that keep coming up for me are the numerous wars that have taken place that seemed to be useful in my own timeline or wars that had to take place in order for me to be born. Maybe that's too selfish, but there are examples of "good wars" like the world wars (more the 2nd imo), the American revolution and civil war and plus a lot more smaller ones. If we look back and see how people talked...I mean all wars are bad but depending on where you are the arguments for one do create a compulsion to get on with it. I'm wondering if I can denounce all war as a result of all this...thanks
Hi! There is no such thing as a "good war," just like there is no such thing as a "good rape," a "good murder," and so on. God can and does, nonetheless, turn also bad things around for us, IF we love Him and keep stretching toward His light and truth, amidst all the evil that occasionally seems to get the upper hand (like when some people decide to start a war). As St. Paul says in Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." We may be tempted, in dark times, to abandon God's love and truth, or to doubt Him and distort His truth with various justifications for evil actions like starting a war. As you sort of do above, dear Joe. But we should stand firm and not be swayed like this, because it would be perverse and pagan, to think that there is a "god of war" (like Mars in Roman mythology or Tiw in Germanic mythology), who brings us wars to accomplish something. *We* are responsible for wars, those of us who start them, even while our loving God can and does bring "all things" to work together for our "good," when we love Him and stick to His life-bringing purpose, and not to the death-bringing one of mere humans who serve their own, self-seeking purposes.
@@VassaLarin I think one side can say they are the heroes of the war though, like bringing an injustice to heel. When I say "they can" say this I mean they are apt too. When one thinks of the WW2 and what the nazi's were doing that was an atrocity brought to an end by the declaration of war from America (they came later into the conflict). But in that is the American side seen as an aggressor to God as well or did he sanction such a thing? One should never kill maybe and just ask for God to end to in a way He sees fit but how long does that last?? I guess that's what they mean by long suffering??? But at that time the afflicted are asking for assistance, "Do something!" they say...and many would call out for this. But no killing doesn't perpetuate the cycle, but SOMETHING does continue; pray to God, thats all we can do and maybe some humanitarian work of course.
I was stating also the landscape of America would not look the same without the various wars we have been in and that maybe I would not exist as a result, but my life is a blessing from God under the sinful aspects, so its like the original sin is an ongoing cycle and shown in smaller increments of time again and again. I have no clue if the south would've stopped slavery without the war and many slaves thanked God for the fight that supposedly had to happen...
Where and when do I distort God's teaching for evil ends? I'd like to see if I agree with this assessment, I don't mean to do this if its true. My name wouldn't be "dear joe" but just Joe in the shortest form possible. I'd never ask anyone for evil if knowingly, I am seeing some gray areas within these wars (for whatever reason I see it) thats all.
I guess eastern orthodox don't agree with original sin, I remember reading that, and I checked on it just now. I do hear them saying this is a "fallen world" and so within that context I'll leave my original sin comment only slightly blemished IMHO
czcams.com/video/zfDP2McNTco/video.html наслаждайтесь Васса. Все как говорится одним миром мазаны)
The nun's explanation is certainly important, as it is a person from this tradition speaking to people who take this tradition seriously.
However, at the heart of the matter should be: Can there be a "church of Jesus" that has possessions? That has territory and chair? Who has a court?
What is a "church of Jesus"? A community of people who can relate to Jesus, how he lived and what he taught.
So Jesus certainly did not want to create another religious organization, along the lines of the institution that administered the Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus certainly did not want to organize a clergy or priestly ministry along the lines of what existed in his day.
So what did Jesus exhort people who identified with him to do? He taught that they should seek to be meek and humble, detached and committed to defending the weakest and most oppressed. He said that whoever wanted to serve him should do so by serving the hungry, the homeless, the imprisoned, the sick, the foreigner. This is your teaching. He spoke about that Samaritan who was an exemplary religionist. He taught this to Jews, so that Jews would understand that a true religionist is not one of this or that religion, but is someone who serves God in the service of others.
Without understanding this, something alien to Jesus as all churches are will continue to exist, having no connection with him.
This is certainly not mutually exclusive to the organization of the Church to protect the faith. Jesus did both, create a clerical structure and serve/save the world, the former being a means to do the latter. This way one can present to Jesus a church worthy of His divine name.
@@minasoliman I agree with you that both things would be possible. But the thing is, Jesus (at least as shown in the Gospel) does not. Jesus did not create a clerical, priestly order. He did not create another religion. What he offered was a spiritual insight into how to understand religion, the relationship with God. The organization of the church, and the idea of a "New Chosen People" and a "New Israel", is a notorious misrepresentation of what Jesus (again, that of the gospels) promotes.
@@devotoderamakrishna I respectfully disagree. By this logic, you only base your reading on the four gospels and ignore the Acts of the Apostles and the writings of Paul.
@@minasoliman Yes, it is certainly a proposition based on the gospels. It is clear that the Acts of the Apostles and the letters of the Apostle Paul form the basis of the idea of the church as a new religion. However, even so, if you look at the Didache, you will see that those followers of Jesus were more "Jews who loved Jesus" than anything else.
Anyway, I would like to say that I understand that a person can be holy, pure and truly seeker of God, and be inserted in a church and live its reality with faith. May God help us and enlighten us all!
@@devotoderamakrishna the fact that Christ chose 12 among the disciples, a structure that echoes the tribes of Israel should mean something. It’s a small seed the gospel gives us to which grows out of it the Church. The will of Christ remains in this that the structures to be is a result of the gospel’s desire to be preached and to win souls. You ignore the rest of the Scriptures to your peril.