What they don't tell you about academic publishing | 5 SECRETS
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- In this video, we talk about what they don't want you to know about academic publishing.
Newsletter: andrewstapleton.com.au/newsle...
0:00 - why academic publishing is gamed
1:35 - predatory journals (Think. Check. Submit: thinkchecksubmit.org)
5:25 - science celebrities
7:14 - the rules of author order
10:08 - citation games
12:18 - the power of politics
What would you add to this list?
Academic Publishing, the industry that somehow can charge colleges thousands of dollars while paying authors and peer reviewers nothing. Nice racket.
sounds like the volunteering racket. they hire one paid person to go out and recruit a team of unpaid workers to do all the leg work and door knocking.
totally agree
& often charges the public(who funds many if not all universities) £30 or more a paper, let alone a full book.
But the church is bad partially because inhibiting the distribution of knowledge, yeah?
Could also address the citation “gangs” as groups of researchers who promise to cite each other’s papers ad nauseum in order to boost their H-index fast and shut out others not part of the gang.
I am in private industry but help academics write papers when I can. I think if more people did this it would raise the quality of science since I am under zero pressure to publish.
As a new PhD student that feels very out of touch with the “PhD/ uni life” due to pandemic and working from home, this channel has massively helped me to gain insight into what to expect and things to avoid as a PhD student!! I truly appreciate your videos.
During my early-career phase, a major factor besides "is it a decent enough journal?" was literally "what's the average turn-around time?" because it matters so much. It's really silly but that's life.
I just can't comprehend how on-point you were in this video. I would like to point that even the country from which submit the paper is also necessary for the paper to be taken seriously by these journals. There is discrimination based on country as well as the most famous author you got on your list.
Incredible content. I am in the final months of my PhD, and I have experienced all these issues in these times. I may do a post-doc but just for a year and then I am going to transition into industry because I cannot handle the academic world...😄
Nice decision. Same here. I will moving into industry straight out of my PhD. Not gonna do Post-Doc
I received my PhD in 2019 and will be done wirh my EdD in December. IT HAS BEEN A COMPLETE NIGHTMARE trying to dissiminate my dissertation into articles for publishing and getting individual articles published. I needed this because I do not want to hold 2 doc degrees and not be published.
Good luck!
Dang! How did you afford 2 doctorates? I struggled to just get one!
So true about journals taking advantage of researchers (authors) and peer-reviewers. I did several peer reviews for a leading journal but got tired of donating all my free labor for their benefit. I am now assuring that I have enough peer-reviewing to substantiate my activity of the required :"service and scholarship" to maintain one's assistant professor status, but trying to focus on my "own" writing and publication which perpetually gets put on the back burner. They say that nothing kills one's publishing aspiration than a heavy teaching load. In nursing there are NEVER enough faculty to teach theory or clinicals.
the only channel I turn on notifications for!
As for the order of authors: I believe this is field-dependent. In social sciences it is usually: 1st the PI, 2nd the person who actually wrote it, 3rd, 4th people who contributed smaller chunks. If there are more authors (rarely), they are put at the end, and they are often seen as courtesy authorship (people who could have been thanked but were put on the paper because they e.g. needed the publication for evaluation or something).
I feel like vast majority of things he has talked in his videos is field or country dependend.
Thank you so much. I am doing my Master's and about to write my 1st ever paper. I'm excited about the journey and look forward to contributing to the bodies of knowledge 😅💃🏾💃🏾💃🏾
Good that there are more and more journals that are free for both writers and readers :)
I think they get supported by the Universities and this is cheaper for the Universities than to subscribe to the closed journals.
Thank you Andy!
Thank you for this, it actually helped in getting my paper published
Thank you for these. I am a early researcher and am navigating myself through the process. Thus this is very relevant and helpful. My only difference is that I am a part time student thus I am a bit limited in terms of time available for publishing. I do try to document my journey on CZcams with hope that others on the same boat might benefit from some of the insights.
When said and done, it all comes down to kudos, celebrity, renown, and yes, 'fame' - 'the last infirmity of the noble mind'. Academics are immune from none of the failings that afflict lesser mortals - that is, the uneducated - least of all the desire for recognition.
I’m so delighted for watching your videos
Thanks for all your videos. Super helpful!
My most favourite channel for PhD motivation ❤️
It was super helpful, thank you!
This was very helpful, thanks.
Interesting video. Thanks Andy
This is really darker than I expected 😞but it’s a great channel Andy 😃👍🏽
Great video!
such a great video, thank you.
thank you for whoever like this comment, i completely forgot about this video, but now, you made it pop up on my notification, now i go to his channel and learn so much more knowledge
Mr, Andy when you Lecture/present please write for not hearing give dual service.
Very useful for Researchers
Thank you 😊
Hi Andy, thank you for the great content! I’m doing a PhD in energy policy, which by its very nature is interdisciplinary and closely linked to real world behaviour. I’d love to hear your thoughts and ideas on how to collaborate with other academics and industry practitioners.
I think I've been lucky enough that when reviewer recommend citations those work were actually relevant and worth citing.
thank you for this talk, do you have any lecture that reveal the main logic on how to get an article accepted
🤣🤣 self-citations! That's a cold trick for sure.
Solution is to not subscribe to the journals that charge a fee. And, authors could up load their works into the Internet for others to see. Besides, employers don't really care about the journal that published your work. You just need to be able to perform on the job.
Pro of being a historian: We write what we want because we don't care what others think.
Con of being a historian: We rarely get published anywhere because no one cares what we think.
Thanks for sharing this with us! No one wants to be in the "et al" , section of authors. I would like to talk about this on my channel, if you don't mind, for PAs who want to go into academia and research. I'll put a link to your channel.
Insightful
Andy being Cheeky towards the end of the video SHOULD BE A THING !!!!
Greetings to you sir!
Thank you for such a clear concept of authorship.
Meanwhile, I am in doubt how to decide the authorship of a group research paper. We were 7 person team to do all the field works of a carrot research in Nepal. But, when it came to data entry, analysis and manuscript preparation, nobody showed any concern or interest to proceed. Finally after 2 years of requesting, I decided to complete the work and I alone did all the data entry, analysis and manuscript preparation.
In this case, how should I decide the authorship appropriately?
Nice Video :)
Nice Video, just got my paper rejected after a peer review. It was the first ever paper I ever submitted and I am at least happy that It didn't get desk rejection but a full peer review at least. It means that I just need to find the right journal and a bit of luck. you know what I mean😜
Thank you for explaining a mystery! Ive been wondering why research seems like an echo chamber.
Thats why I love sci-hub
Democratisation of knowledge ✊
My major pet peeve has been how much time desk rejection can take. Waiting 2 months to get a desk rejection with 'out of scope' reasoning felt undefensable.
I'm not even in a field that does academic papers, but I still get emails from journals about every time a name similar to mine pops up in an article (they want me to subscribe).
This ia so helpful, in the right time.
I wonder how I know by document in general who is the main author. On my Faculty in Zagreb happened that lately my colleague was refused because in the rule writes in A category researxh should be the first author or main author. This is not detailed, I am gonna apply in August - September. It would be so helpful for me to provide with these informations, because I am third author in A and B category even that it was my own research. My mentor said it goes by hierarchy of position. I am demotivated to make another research as part of my thesis as reserve.
My supervisor was a huge proponent of the Vancouver protocol when determining authorship and guided me to use that as a source that I could refer others to as a way to safeguard against intimidation. Not a perfect system by any means but it was helpful to refer others to this system and ask “based on your contributions where do you envision yourself as an author?”
Strong disagreement with the middle author positions there in terms of "doing the least"
Senior authors who come last often do way less work, while middle authors can be the ones pulling the weight of the paper by performing the analyses or gathering the data.
It happens very often that someone like a phd student or postdoc are brought on board a project where the first author conceptually "designed" a study but then passes off the work onto the middle authors and there is a pre-defined senior author and prying that position from them is a whole fight in itself.
Maybe that's a field-specific experience.
It's not right or what the authorship guidelines of most journals state but it still happens a lot.
Also, "corresponding author" is an increasingly sought-after position now, as weird as that may seem. Maybe that wasn't the case 2 years ago.
Your sweater is also a quilt
A lot of desk rejections can also happen if the topic of your paper isn't in season. Editors at high impact journals will only let certain topics through and if you've been studying something unrelated ... well tough shit go somewhere else.
That's not true if you target a subject specific journal : I think you're scenario is of a more generalized journal.
They need to keep citations flowing in order to keep the IF, which forces them to focus on trendy topics. Good luck finding suitable journals if you are from a small field.
Yep I agree. Certainly in the biomedical sciences the in season was much like women’s clothing. There was a new trend every 2-3 years and the journals were only interested in papers in that area. Ditto with grants. .
Hi Dr.Andy! You said the 1st and Last author mean something conceptually but does the order of authors affect any actual academic metrics? Like if you're 1st vs middle vs last what specific academic/professional metrics do that impact? I've always thought it didn't matter at all and was merely a prestige thing?
The fact you're saying professor out there are arguing about the "middle order" leads to me believe there's something objective they want and I'm wondering what that is lol? Does author order affect grants somehow? H index? etc?
Purely ego causing arguments about the middle author order. I'm not aware of any metrics that it specifically impacts but many places ask how many first or last author papers you have when you apply for a job or position.
Some younger academics also have a list of first and last author papers in their CV to show that they are the ones leading the research. Better for getting grants I think.
@@DrAndyStapleton Awesome!!! Do you know if being 1st or Last matters more for grants funding? :)
@@PrecisionSportScience in my experience, being first author on a lot of papers really helps in your early career. Once you're in a supervisory role I don't think it matters as much.
This is a great video. Question: you mention the celebrity factor. However, isn’t the peer-review process meant to be blinded? Therefore, my assumption would be that what is actually accepted for publication has nothing to do with the author(s), but rather with the quality of the content. Is that incorrect?
In most cases it's a single-blind process, meaning that authors don't know the identity of the reviewers but reviewers know the identity of the authors
Not sure about “most cases”. In my current experience it’s about 50:50
MDPI cough cough cough
I'm glad someone said it lol.
I have out of principle never accepted to add a list of irrelevant citations (all from the same group) to my manuscript because a reviewer asked for it. Instead, I contact the editor and point out the problem, basically asking whether they think the citations should be added. In every case, the editor thought it was a bad idea to add them. In one case, the editor entirely removed the reviewer in question from the manuscript for unethical behavior (meaning that I didn't had to write a response to that reviewer). In the remaining cases, I wrote a point-by-point response to the reviewer; where the request to cite a list of papers was made, I responded that "after discussion with the editor, we have decided to not add these citations". The reviewer now knows that the editor is on your side, not theirs, and that the best they can do is to just shut up and "accept the L".
Where I work, the school of medicine policy caps postdocs at 5 years of service. During the postdoc’s service there is a mentoring committee and program to support the scholar’s specific area of interest, to help the person apply for his or her own grants, and to promote submission to the right academic journals. Every PI has to be self-sustaining to receive promotion tenure, and frankly to stay employed. So getting used to this productivity schedule as a postdoctoral is a true representation of later career. Industry will always pay more, but what’s your motivation? Do you want to be the researcher responsible for finding a cure to a major disease?
As someone who has worked in academic publishing for some years(back in the day), I would say to people submitting papers, please try and be patient. There are many processes that have to be fulfilled before a paper gets published. A typical well known journal will get hundreds of papers submitted every month. These have to be considered first by a junior editor, then passed to a managing editor. If deemed suitable then you have the process proof reader/copy editor /peer review. Finally if you're lucky, printers and then distributors. So please don't expect to see your paper in print the month after submission. If everything goes smoothly, then six months is pretty good. A heads up, if you ever think of getting a book published, then expect at least three years from submission to publication. Additionally you'll be doing well to get around 15% of the sale price of the book, unless you're already famous.
Rewe Érrrerrrr4ew
My usual experience is around 12 to 16 months from submission to publication, but I have also encountered cases, in which it took two or more years. This is also, why you cannot expect the academic's publication output for, say 2019, to reflect his/her actual work in 2019. It rather represents what the person has been doing the two or three years prior.
damn... that citation rigging bit was so shocking. scientists can be so petty and shady
Nowadays, most of the "hq" journals are pushing the sciencetists to open access publishing. So isn't it predotary?
This is great. 😂
Forced citing of the reviewer is disguisting. I have not encountered it yet, but that is horrendous, connot wait for my first experience.
Chasing after impact factor is not only unscientific in itself, but destructive. There is no predictive value in impact factor, and most academic papers are never read. NEVER. And that is also true for papers in high impact factor journals. 20% of papers account for 80% of citations, across the boards. Being in a high impact journal will not give you higher impact, you are not more likely to get read or cited.
On the other hand this chasing after impact factor leads journals (such as Nature) to manipulate their content. Impact facor is calculated by dividing citations by number of citable objects. A citable object does not include editorials, letters to the editor, commentary and so forth. Nature and other journals are likely to publish papers they assume will not get cited a lot as non citable objects rather than proper papers. Regardless of quality or the work you put into it, and publishers will happily publish anything in Nature, not realizing that their hard word gets published in a category that might not even count when their university evaluates their work.
However the citations FROM non citable objects count, so academic journals also often demand that you cite their content to be published in their journal, exactly for this reason. Pure manipulation, and a downward spiral.
Also; H-index is only a measure of age. It says nothing about quality of work, and it's basically a scam and a faulty metric. If anyone wants to measure you by h-index they're just irresponsible.
Bibliometricians are warning authorities, universities and academics to avoid the impact factor. It was a created as a way to allow libraries to spend less money, and has NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER in terms of quality of those papers. It's nonsense. I highly recommend taking a look at the Leiden Manifesto for Responsible Metrics, which elaborates on this.
painful reallity😐👍🏻
All open source journals are predatory and that is a hill I will die on. "Reputable" peer review is already a dubious topic; I don't buy for one hot second that open source journals are accomplishing anything near a standard that is worth consuming.
What? Nature Communications?
@@sfz82 Good Sir/Madame, I am quite committed to death.
🕊
Is it necessary to have published paper to get enrolled in PhD?
No - normally people publish their first paper in the second or third year of their PhD
It is becoming more and more common to require this.. it's a predatory practice in academia
A shitshow, that's what this is. I'd love to know whether scientific progress is actually impacted by this.
You already know the answer.
@@sirmclovin9184 actually not. Are there any peer-reviewed studies?
@@Pongant I don't think you need a study to see that enormous amounts of time and effort are wasted in playing this game. Other than that there is this PhD thesis on research funding (not the publication process itself though):
eprints.lse.ac.uk/88207/1/Grove_Thesis_2017.pdf
With regards to funding, it contains the line "One academic in this study also noted that there has thus far been very little research into different methods of research funding, and again, such research would surely be merited."
It would surprise me if the situation were different for the publication process itself, but I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.
Thanks for this link! This text was actually enjoyable.
Exactly, all academia is SELECTIVE. Each has their FAVORITES based on appearance, chemistry, extent to flattery, etc. who are ALWAYS given priority and most welcome in contrast to the ones who work hard and have brains to see and voice up the nasty affairs going behind the scenes.
You haven't talked much about education. Universities make most of their money from students.
this video contains a lot of half truth and misinformation. First every journal (including those with self said higher impact factor) will require people to pay for publishing under a variety of forms (not only the so called predatory one). Predatory journals are those published by other publishers than the large mainstream ones. That is to say large publishers have created the marketing story that if you do not publish in their products your research is not worth anything. Now anyone can explain to me why the same paper published by a large editor would be highly rated but the same published by a minor publisher (by definition predatory according to the large publishers who just lost the undeserved publishing fee) would be low impact? The high impact / low impact of a journal is just a rubbish marketing scheme. Finally peer review is never done for a large number of sectors (even though the journal editors claim it is) for the simple fact that is humanly impossible to redo the data collection, the experimental section, to rebuild the experimental tool/framework, etc. Good luck believing that if you pay to publish this will produce high quality research.
1 of your best vids 🎉
"The PEER review system is the least worst body we have for governing... PEER reviewed publications." WTF? Apparently we credential folk way beyond their capacities.
BTW: This is from the top sentence of Your web page "Ph.D. Student Advice is hard to come by as there is (sic) a load of great reasons for doing a Ph.D." Again --WTF? Was grammatical accuracy optional in your Ph.D program?