Kunal Nayyar is Back to Help You Release the Illusion of Yourself & Stop Living Someone Else’s Life!
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- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- "You Don’t Need to Climb a Mountain to Reach Enlightenment” - KUNAL NAYYAR, one of our most popular guests of ALL TIME, is back!
Feeling Fatigued? KUNAL is Here to Deal Out Some HOPE!
Kunal helps us unravel the secrets to attaining inner peace and catalyzing global change in this transformative episode.
From the power of ego surrender and "self-sacrifice" to his enlightening perspective on the purpose of pain, Kunal's journey through the Myth of Enlightenment and navigating feelings of aimlessness offers invaluable lessons for anyone seeking a more fulfilling and peaceful life.
Kunal shares practical meditation tips with Mayim, his thoughts on finding love and compassion in altered states, his perspective on ancestral trauma, practical ways to detach from our thoughts and ego in order to live in harmony with others, and how we should decide which of our personal obstacles to tackle and which to find a way to live with.
He also breaks down:
- His struggle with being pigeon-holed into his TBBT character, Raj Koothrappali
- Fatigue we feel from hyper-focusing on self-work
- Why we should stop holding our stories so tightly
- How workaholism can actually be a crutch
- Why we should stop trying to live someone else's life
- The Elusive Nature of Thought
- Ways we can release "the Illusion of ourselves"
- His spiritual connection to and the meditative process of acting
PLUS @jonathancohenofficial opens up about his first experience with reiki.
Kunal wants you to know that you are not a problem that needs solving and that world peace starts within!
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CHAPTERS:
1:26 - What Kunal has been up to
17:54 - The Myth of Enlightenment
24:50 - Meditation
37:05 - Finding Love & Compassion in Altered States
42:54 - The Purpose of Pain
49:55 - World Peace Starts Within
59:28 - The Elusive Nature of Thought
1:02:30 - Ego Surrender & "Self-Sacrifice"
1:05:29 - Stop Holding Onto Your Stories
1:13:58 - Acting: Spiritual Connection & Meditative Process
1:16:04 - Ancestral Trauma
1:39:35 - JC's First Reiki Experience
1:53:05 - Outro
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Find Mayim Bialik:
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Find Kunal Nayyar:
Instagram: / kunalkarmanayyar
Check out our first episode with Kunal Nayyar: • Kunal Nayyar: Stay Pre...
Theme Song Written, Produced, and Performed by Ed Robertson. Mixed by Kenny Luong.
#MayimBialik #BialikBreakdown #KunalNayyar #TBBT #TheBigBangTheory #Enlightenment #Meditation #Mindfulness #Ego #WorldPeace #Hope #InnerPeace #AncestralTrauma #Trauma #Workaholism #Reiki #ReikiHealing
Have you ever decided to live with a personal obstacle because the effort required to overcome it just didn't seem worth it? 🧐Let us know down below !!
No, I have limitations set by chronic illness that are not something I'll ever be able to overcome. If I could, I would.
Yes. Driving. I feel like an eleven year old behind the wheel so I no longer drive.
Leaving a toxic relationship counts?
My mother would not leave my toxic father. I told her she should. I believe it was partially responsible for her early death. She didn’t want to leave him because it would have been too difficult for her to start over.
Yes! A relationship with my sister. But also as I speak I’m fighting leaving behind my own podcast due to not being able to stay consistent due to connection to a traumatic experience that keeps triggering me when I get in front of a mic! Imaging not being able to do something you really love doing! To have this voice I keep hearing is amazing and a storyteller voice and all these ideas for episodes in your mind and when you sit down to record, all you can do is break down in tears. Part of me wants to just walk away. And my higher self knows if I do I lose my purpose. Whew! Okay. Sorry. That got deep! 🙈
Thanks for another beautifully insightful episode (my second). I am now invested and will start from episode uno!
Ps
I’m a reiki master. Loved Jonathan’s story!
I NEED A EPISODE WITH JIM PARSONS OMG😭😭❤
Yes please 🙏🏼
We all do!
Yeeeessss!!!!! 😍❤️🥰
Yes!❤
And all the Young Sheldon folks too!!
Cliche - I know... But this man is beautiful on the inside and on the outside. And this VOICE!!! I hear all the prophets of the world in these frequencies.
Holy hell do I love this man! So empathetic, smart, kind, strong, insightful, aware...the list goes on. This is exactly what I need today.
we need to see jim parsons on this podcast! Love to see Kunal back! Please bring Melissa and Simon back!!!❤
❤❤
I strongly suspect that Jim’s not interested or doesn’t want to. He and Mayim are good friends, they’ve collaborated on various work projects as producers, etc. I’m sure he’d support her in this way if he felt he had something he wanted to share. Not everyone is into this type of discussion, especially in public. Some actors prefer appearing as the characters in shows, rather than as themselves. Many are actually self-conscious and awkward otherwise. Whatever the reason, I’m sure it’s not because Mayim hasn’t considered inviting him.
I could listen to Kunal talk for days.
I love how Johnathan has embraced Kunal's "frequency." He seems very taken by the notion which means to me that he has caught a glimpse of another path to take. Happy traveling, Johnathan. ❤
so what are you saying, is Jonathan looking at travel changing jobs, what does your frequency mean...?
It is so nice to have Kunal Nayyar back in this podcast! Much love to you Mayim! ❤
So glad he is back on your Podcast. I already enjoyed the first episode with Kunal🥳
Thank you Mayim for bringing so much needed attention to mental health. I‘m from Germany and we are SO behind on everything regarding mental health etc. I‘m glad to have found you several years ago and love listening to you and your guests.🌸🫶🏻
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Kunal Nayyar is such an inspiration!!!!!
Love him!
shut up
@@BEEFSERPENT Why should she shut up? Is her excitement and happiness not as valid as your bitterness?
The deep reason for our anxiety, in my opinion, is the toxic corporate mindset. The transformation of money into a god.
Brilliant comment. May I quote you on that?
so you think money is causing anxiety, environment, life, living and ppl I would think
@@d.d.p.parker3671 late stage capitalism is evil
"you are not a problem that needs to be solved". I needed to hear that. I just got out of the hospital due to a medication error that sent my nervous system into overdrive. I have C/DPTSD and stimulating medication will trigger insomnia and I'll stay awake, in agony, for days without medical intervention. Thankfully, this time the ER listened (after the second time I went in) and gave me a low dose of Ativan, which knocked me out. I have been trying desperately to put myself back together ever since. I needed to hear that it's okay not to solve every problem and to enjoy my life. Go dancing. I think I will!
🫶🫶🫶
Sending love and healing.
I completely understand what you’re going through. Been battling through mental health issues the last 10 months. And I thought the same thing after this episode: it’s starting to help get myself together.
@@misscoconutgirl I'm so sorry you're going through it. Just remember, you can have a mental illness but have good mental health. The inverse is true as well.
I have an excellent medical team behind me. I have a neurologist, a fabulous gp, and a therapist who is familiar with dissociative disorders. I have DID, and it's caused by childhood trauma, so I've been at this for my entire life. The older I get, the more empowered I feel. Therapy gave me so many wonderful coping skills, and my life is absolutely wonderful now. My ER visit was just a small blip caused by a medication mistake. It happens. I'm okay. I'm proof we can survive a multitude of awful things and be okay and happy
Kunal’s first ep has been one of my favorite since it first came out. This ep is just as thoughtful as that one & Kunal being in person bumps it up even more for me. ❤
Oh wow, didn’t know that Kunal was this spiritual! As a Buddhist, it’s all music to my ears. It’s clear that his spiritual efforts paid off, he definitely had many glimpses of enlightenment. So happy to normalize this notion of self reflection to actually decrease our unnecessary suffering of the mind. Can’t change the physical, but we can lessen it by not adding mental suffering. Such a beautiful episode Mayim, thank you so much!
Glad this episode resonated with you! Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🧠🫶
I love Kunal! His Buddha in jeans was so comforting
Yes! Loved it!!
Mayim you’re looking very glamorous luv it
God bless this gentle soul.
Just completed the episode and texted my husband: I think this just changed my life.
Been battling a horrible depression due to poor mental health services, but Kunal’s beliefs and directions for living have started to get me together. MB, thank you for your epic podcasts. ❤
Glad this episode resonated with you! Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🫶🧠
First, my favorite tv couple ShAmy will be guest stars on YS finale then this? OMG, TBBT memories! ❤🥹
Thanks for having him again, MBB! 😊 I just finished listening to this on Spotify.. now, im so excited to watch it! 😁 So glad that Kunal is back! He is really wise.
I hope Jim Parsons will also become one of your guest here 😭♥️
Hearing this was so affirming to me. Kunal articulates the place I find myself in these days. I've been through a lot of spiritual journey and exploration over my years but somehow in recent years I've slipped into this space he talks about. When I hear/feel judgement about something going on around me there's a peace of sorts that pops up that reminds me, this is not mine to judge, or appoint any importance to, it's not my journey. Then I am able to mentally step back and watch or interact with the situation without attachment. My favorite reminder to myself these days is that life has went on all around the world after the passing of generations of beings, and will continue to go on after I am gone. Which means I am barely a raindrop into the ocean of this world. Lighten up, the importance of my opinions and experiences are miniscule, enjoy the moment instead of attaching so much importance to it. ♥️.
Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🧠🫶
I'm so happy to be here to witness this beautiful video 🥰
I am quite certain in retrospect that Kunal’s first visit saved my life.
Mayim looks gorgeous!! Great show
I agree with you, we need to be nicer to each other, stop for a moment, say hello to the neighbor, smell the flower, listen to the birds singing, stop constantly rushing forward, constantly buying new things that you don't even need, the world is spinning so fast that even we can't keep up with it, recently I had to completely rearrange my life to find myself, it cost me a lot but I finally feel good, I feel like myself, I have fun with knitting and crocheting, I feel pleasure in doing beautiful things for the good of others, this change has healed me physically and mentally, I may not be a successful lawyer, I don't earn a lot of money, but I feel needed and fulfilled just by being myself, which is what I wish for you too
Wow! The Synchronicity of this session is really out of the box, thank you for bringing Kunal back I've missed him.
I'm so excited that he's back on the podcast, I thoroughly enjoyed the first one ! Such a great person for real.
Just Love. Namaste to all!
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I love hear to our voices and relax and just enjoy it,you too are looking so wonderful,and it's just amazing❤😭
Even if Kunal is a fabulous inspirational guy & everyone of us welcome episodes he is in, I bet popular demand asks for one episode with JIM PARSONS! I’m sure he has a lot to explain about how mental health compromising was to realize he was gay at a post AIDS stigmitized time, his fears to come out publicly, his advocacy at GLAAD etc.. I hoped that being the week that both of you reprise your beloved characters of Amy & Sheldon closing such a beautiful circle..he’d be the guest..😢
I have to say this would have to be one of my favourite episodes.. 1stly thank you Myiam and Johnathan for your continued commitment to this journey and for sharing the content...hearing how Johnathan responded to Kunals frequency was amazing. He said it so well. When someone has done the work and is embodying it they have the ability to drawn you into the present moment. Just like Eckhart Tolle. I have a new found respect for Johnathan after this episode. Hearing his experience was beautiful. We are all so different and there are many roads and paths. As long as we are walking our own journey and being kindness towards each other that is all that matters.. I can't express how much this episode touched me. Thank you soo much.
So glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🧠🫶
I enjoyed every moment listening to Kunal. He seems kind and wise. I felt waves of love while listening and I shed a few tears. What Johnathan shared at the end was such a gift and also brought me to tears. I am grateful he shared. This may have been my favorite so far. Overwhelming and beautiful. Thank you all
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Kunal’s voice has such a calming cadence! Jonathan’s story was also inspiring. I love to hear how people make through to the other side after a difficult experience. Thanks for doing this podcast.
This is the most profoundly simple and simply profound conversation I have ever witnessed. ❤
Do interviews of each other! I would love to hear them. Hearing Jonathan, for example, talk about frequencies, could be a real treat also. It would be more on the physical, or metaphysical side. But the place where Spiritual and Physical realms mend in a noticeable way is really interesting and a very fertile place to learn about the fabric of - well - everything.....
OMG! Such a good episode with Kunal! Please make him a monthly guest! His insight is enlightening. . Also, thank you, Jonathan, for sharing about your Reiki experience that you had in your teens. I cried for you during that❤.
Mayim and JC your podcast is the best and honest podcast!!!
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I have to say, this is one of my favorite uploads I've seen in recent months. Your channel is amazing! Keep going.
best 2 hours of my day, thank you!!
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"what if there's nothing to figure out?" that is the primary message I heard from Kunal. That is exactly how I walk through the world. We're born, life happens, shit happens, we die. I can't understand why it has to be more profound than that. If the question "what is the meaning of life" had a universal answer I feel like we would know by now. Seeking meaning is just a hamster wheel of distraction. Why does there have to be a meaning? Needing and seeking an explanation is the suffering. And the cause of so much strife and derision in our world.
"God" v "the universe" v "what I'm going to think about today." What if I don't even think about "it"? What is "it?" Simplified, this speaks to my perspective that there is nothing to think about. I am open to something beyond my understanding, but I also don't spend my time nor energy trying to figure it out. And I certainly don't seek to apply a man-made construct of rules to this something. The "golden rule" seems to be the only thing that is universally independent of the rules of all the man-made religions. To summarize: don't be an asshole.
I believe what people mean to find when searching for the meaning of life, is an answer or justification for all the horrible things that occur in the world - some intrinsic wisdom they believe will take away their sorrow and give them purpose, despite the inevitable demise of it all. The existence of this is an interesting prospect to consider, and a natural question that should occur to someone as they mature and reflect on their place in the universe, but it does not need to have an answer. It's a bit like a Rorschach test.
This is probably my favorite Mayim Bialik's Breakdown episode so far and I like all of them!!!
I love Kunal being back
I could listen to Kunal all day. He's so humble and modest, but so very wise. 🙏
I loved your sharing Johnathan. I also began learning about Reiki over 23 years ago. I went to the Mastery Level but I didn't practise it as much on the public rather than on my family. I was also was doing a degree later. I recently retook the first 2 levels with an add on called Shamanic Reiki and now I am doing Crystalline Soul Healing and speaking Light Language. I work as a Social Worker in my day job, but I don't know how I would manage in this world without feeling and knowing the presence of Spirit/Higher Self in any or all of those forms.
This was amazing and very needed. Everyone needs to listen to this and just surrender to that knowledge this has. It is like a big hug to your soul you didn't know you needed. Thank you very much all of you.💜
I really enjoyed what Kunal was saying. Wise..and practical. It spoke to me. I sent a short clip to friends. I look forward to the discussion afterwards. I like hearing from both hosts.
01:04:00
``Peaceful & forgiving``
So close to my heart, all your voices! Blessed 💖
not ready for the young sheldon finale but it'll be damn good to see u and jim onscreen again
I know I’ll cry…
Awesomeness Continues! 👊😎✊ Another Fantastic Episode! 👍😊👌🍁🍁
I was going to say your channel has taken a delightful journey 😊
Jonathan, thank you for sharing that personal story about Reiki energy and how you finally felt it.
I was so excited to see this episode pop up in my CZcams feed. Your 1st interview with Kunal is one of my favorite Breakdown episodes and this was another wonderful conversation!
Actually Eckhart Tolle has mentioned in a recent talk that you are not a blank slate when you are born, you inherit so much from your genes, family history, even past lives, your ancestors traits, their likes dislikes, their pain/trauma.....even being in the mother's womb the baby is already having an experience-- I've taken hypnotherapy with Marisa Peer and we studied cases where the patient regressed all the way back to being in the mother's womb where they had a traumatic experience through the mother's emotions. Your brain is pre-programmed before you are born, and after you are born you continue the programming through to 7 years old and then everything you've learned at that point will shape your adulthood and personality. But all of this is of course just the mind---ego stuff. Spirituality is about learning to find your true self that is not all that baggage that came with your brain.
The best podcast ever .. every thing I struggle with was said in this episode
I believe that life is about the choices that you make. You choose to love one another and you choose to treat people with respect.
This was an amazing episode…. So much truth and authenticity…. 🙏
That was simply beautiful. What huge hearts the three of you have. Thank you so much for sharing with us. 😊❤😊
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Jonathan, thank you for sharing your Reiki experience. People don’t talk about it. I have been there.
This is a very true and good subject to hear about, thank all three of you for this
I love these! Literally my favourite podcast (even better than mindscape)
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4:47 Kunal was FANTASTIC in "Criminal". I watched the UK and German versions of the show!
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤, Kunal and You, your show, Ty
💯✌️🙏❤️🕯️🎈🌻😊
Incredible again. We are all trying to go so deep into spirituality. Balance seems to be the answer to being happy in this world!
Glad this resonated with you! Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🧠🫶
I wish I had parents like you guys, trying to talk to some of my family members about generational trauma and how words matter is usually pointless. Always one sided conversations or conversations that completely don’t matter and it’s exhausting. Those are the moments I wish we’d all just sit in silence lol
Also yesss Spaceman! Such a good movie
This man has the most soothing voice. So reassuring and intelligent. Thank you Mayim for allowing us to enjoy this wonderful conversation. Do you have a mailing address? I would love to send you some snail mail.
I would love to hear you cover adoption trauma and especially how it changes the brain. There are so many of us suffering and the pubic is clueless what adoption of babies does to the baby and grief it causes the child.
Hi, Holly! Thanks so much for the suggestion. Definitely check out our eps with Rosie O'Donnell, Joel Kim Booster, and Darryl "DMC" McDaniels if you haven't already, where we touch on adoption trauma. 🫶
@@MayimBialik I definitely will re watch those videos. I am reading the book “The Primal Wound” currently. Interviewing the author would be amazing to watch. Thanks for all you do.
I finally got to watch this episode tonight! I sooooo get Kunal! Listening to him speak is like being wrapped up in a soft, comfy blanket with a cup of tea, chatting with a close friend ❤ I could go on & on, but I won't. Just Be ❤ Jonathan, thank you for sharing your reiki experience. As always, Bialik Breakdown continues to be my #1
Listening to this episode was very calming and comforting for me 💜
I just want to say I love all the points that Johnathan made on what he called frequency I totally understood what he meant .I feel that Johnathan s frequency is very approachable .Thanks for such great podcast !
Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🧠🫶
Just seen the 1st one yesterday 😍 can't stop listening to the breakdown podcast !! Mayim been such a big part of my childhood in the late 90s with Blossom, than my teenage years with TBBT and now fixing my adulthood!! 😂😂😂😍 lot's of love and hugs from Brazil ❤
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During the pandemic, Kunal Nayyar's instagram was so wonderful and brought me so much peace.
Thank you for this! When I was in a cult in India (Nithyananda, a nishidha guru, not a genuine one,) I was basically living outside of modern society. My touchstone of normalcy came every six months, when I had to fly back to Canada to renew my Visa. I always looked forward to the flights, because I would watch The Big Bang Theory, and imagine an alternate reality, where instead of being treated like garbage, abused and made to hate life, I was a nerd in university, hanging out with good people and eating regularly. I watched because I heard some of the cast was vegan, like me, but it was unimaginably healing to be able to see people (even scripted, lol,) who treated each other respectfully, spoke about mind expanding things and respected those whose opinions differed. After I escaped Nithyananda, Kunal's and your social media presence gave me the courage to keep at it despite character attacks, and I cried like a baby in the final episode, when Raj took Amy for a makeover, and finally, we got to see her inner self shine through, unobscured by the frumpy wardrobe. It was like the divine feminine revealed where she had been all along. Ok, fan girl moment over, now I'm gonna listen to both of you!!! ❤❤😻😻😻
Kunal has such a calming and tender voice. I can listen to him as my AMSR for falling to sleep, in a good way.
Thank you for sharing this episode. It’s my favorite one so far. ❤❤
Obrigado por esse excelente episódio!!!
Realmente vivemos hoje tempos difíceis, em toda a parte, mais existe uma coisa que "nunca vai mudar": -- A força e o poder de se amar e amar ao próximo, isso é o que sempre fez e sempre fará toda a diferença, não importa a quem seja a pessoa, ou a origem dela .
Obrigado daqui do Brasil !❤
I love love your podcast. It always leaves me thinking of it days after ❤️
Thanks for a great episode, including the conclusion you two have at the end❤
Kindness. Gratitude. Simplicity. Balance. Laughter. Kanal delivers a wonderful message here and it doesn’t hurt that his voice is so soothing. Great episode! ❤
PS-- Mayim, I'd love to see Neal Brennan on Breakdown. His podcast Blocks ties in nicely with everything y'all talk about.
Well time spent listening to this podcast! We've heard so many times that "self-awareness" is most important. But what have heard here and gathered from all the important parts of this podcast is that, yes, self awareness is important, but it's actually just the first step. And the real goal is "self-forgetting."
Amazing Episode. Didn't know Kunal has such depth. I recently discovered my truth which is everyone's truth and the work does actually continue. One of my key takeaways is to have fun.
Stop listening to the messages your parents gave you. When she said that I felt that deep deep deep in my soul. So true
This episode was so profound to me. I am currently in the middle of my spiritual journey to happiness and peace after the sudden loss of my beloved husband 9 years ago. I have been struggling to find happiness again due to my grief and pain. But i also resonate and know that to live in the frequency of being at peace, being grateful, being happy , being love, it is so peaceful in those frequencies. I strive to get there more often and to move away from the feelings of grief, of loss, of anger, jealousy. I loved your discussions between the 3 of you. Sush a wonderful and much needed discussion on our human existence. I also loved Jonathan's sharing of his first Reiki experience. I am also trained in Reiki. I am at Level 2 of Reiki and can confirm the amazing feeling of that universal life force moving thru your body. it is a gift to us all. If we allow it in our lives. I am an Engineer but completely believe in the use of these frequencies to truly inspire, heal, and support us. Wonderful work, Mayim and Jonathan! And Kunal is such an inspiration!
Thanks for sharing and for being here! 🫶🧠
Oh my heck! When I was a kid in 1980s Utah, I also imagined tiny cities in the snow crystals edges. I never told anybody about this! I was blown away when Jonathan said he imagined the same!
Thank you so much.
Excellent discussion! Love you guys!
Thank you for this episode. 🙏
Raj is back! Please invite Jim Parsons, Johnny Galecki and Kaley Cuoco to your podcast!
I love this! Wonderful reminder ✌️🙏
My best ever episode. Stop making me think, please. It hurts my brain. Now I'm going to be mulling over this chat for days. Aussie Sue
Loved this episode, guys! Kunal shared some deep wisdom and Jonathan's story was so moving! Really enjoyed this one. Thanks for making it.
Kunal has a great vibe. He tackled some of the things I have to work with. I think I've got some nice ideas now☺️
Love your hair, Mayim (I know, not the most important thing to comment on, but she just looks so cute 😍)!
WOW What a great episode thank you both ❤
As a writer, I often find myself entering into a state where my characters become quite real to me. I walk away seeing myself as one layer in a sort of nesting doll, where the characters live in me, at once real and unreal, just as I exist, both as real and as unreal as my characters, within something greater than myself. (I think sometimes my agent worries about me. 🙂)
Beautiful conversation ❤
I have a child with complex mental illnesses. I no longer have a life that is mine. They are 31 and I am 67 and still working to support her in her treatments and getting through each day. I am a widow. And I am doomed to live this life or sacrifice theirs. Personal obstacles is an understatement. But I am a mother, and without me, my child will end their own life. So here is your quandary. I guess at least we agree we both love BBT and Amy FF.
I hear you. Do make it to some meetings...Alanon or Narcanon. You are not alone. xoxo
@@mimmyloftinauthor I'm ACoA and grew up in Alanon. I get it.
When you do a "traditional" closed eye meditation, it can be beneficial sometimes to focus on thought itself. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go when you're not focusing on each individual thought? That kind of questioning of the self can really help the process of starting to even partially quiet the mind. If you work at it, it is possible, but as Mr. Nayyar said, not everyone will or even needs to do that. You have to want, in a way, to go toward enlightenment/realization basically even more than you want your next breath. That's a large part of why the journey is hard and some people only think they want it, hence the Spiritual Disneyland.
Well need talk. I really enjoyed thank you
OMG amazing amazing conversation! Thank you 🙏. I love the podcast . Thank you for creating such beautiful content.
Beautiful episode❤️! Kunal’s episode was already one of my favorites and now this one is too🙏🏼! Grateful for all the beautiful words and messages in this episode and grateful for you two❤️. Favorite podcast🎧
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for sharing a for being here! 🧠🫶
I feel like you, Mayim, were making some real good points about not wanting to be a doormat and there was just crickets. I wanted to hear more of an understanding of what you said and a solution or depth to understanding. I just felt like it was very real and maybe not even understood much less delt with by Jonathan and Kunal.