Hey my Chess Friends! I appear in this new 4-hour film series on the Culture of Chess! INFO AND DOWNLOAD AT ideasroadshow.com/chess/ WATCH THE TRAILER AT czcams.com/video/zLnOklDkTGQ/video.html DVD FOR PURCHASE ON AMAZON www.amazon.com//dp/B0C13M1B84/
Well, yeah, it's got a few rules that make it come to a confrontation much faster. It seems that over chess history, many ideas were tried to get the old game going quicker, for instance, starting the pieces in one of several ta'biyat (Arablic), with the pieces starting essentially into a middle-game position. Now that the queen has such power in the modern game, we've got to be on our toes within the first few moves!
@@AncientChess I've an idea to improve Shatranj and the following rules are in addition to or modify those of the game : 1) Example of elephant's move : an elephant on d4 can jump/move on b6, f6, b2, f2, c3 and e3. 2) Example of prime minister's move : a PM on d4 can move on c5, e5, c3, e3 and d3 like the Old Monkey in Taikyoku shogi. 3) Pawns are promoted (promotion is mandatory) to the 7th line. A pawn is always promoted to a prime minister. 4) There's draw match either by repetition of moves 3 times or there's not enough pieces of both sides and the Kings are unable to enter the throne of the other after 50 moves or by stalemating. 5) A player wins either by checkmating the opponent's King or if its King manages to enter the throne of the opponent's King. For example, at the very beginning Kings are on their respective throne (white King is on e1 and black King is on e8), white wins if he manages to bring its King to the opponent's throne on e8. A King can't enter the opponent's throne if it leads him to being checked.
@@alexandrebour7494 I think the changes you suggest will make a very good game. More dynamic than the existing old rules. Your minister's move is a very well known move of the elephant is Southeast Asian variants... and several of your additional rules have good historic precedents. You have stepped into a long line of chess improvers! Please send your thought any time. AworldofChess.com
Thanks for mentioning the king's leap. Yes, the king making a knight's move, as his first move, is a very widespread tradition. It is not mentioned in this video only because the rule is not universal -- but it is very common. The king's knight's leap is still an option in modern Cambodian chess.
Well that's not weird at all cuz In India rooks were used to be primary component of army and indians used to have huge numbers of mighty rooks so that's why it's so important
not that. But Elephants are not that weak. doesn’t make sense. Possibly they could smash the route in between the steps without stoping or something like that
@@bilalentilka well let me give you an example.. When alexander was eager to conquer India.. His army heard about giant army consisting of mighty elephants and they got scared.. So this is the importance of Elephants in India.. Maybe that could be possible reason for portraying rook as more powerful than knight or bishop
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons.
When the modern chess came out, it was called 'chess of the mad (or rabid) queen'. It really was a wild change and, surprisingly, it moved through Europe very quickly, replacing the rules that had been in place for centuries, within about 2 generations.
Interesting had not heard that before. I actually was just using chat gpt to try and quickly learn the history of how the queen is the most powerful. It said it started in italy in 15th century if I remember right, this is also how I also learned of Shatranj. Which brought me to this video, where i learned even more. Thanks!
That's absolutely right. Throughout most of chess history, the rook has always been the strongest piece, and the knight here is the second most powerful. It is only in Europe, around the turn of the 16th century (1500) that the queen was given such devastating power. "Chess of the Mad (or Rabid) Queen" they called it. Because of Europe's power in the world, that form of chess spread along with other European conventions.
I love these videos. I remember first finding your channel as a kid and getting super interested in international chess culture. Sometimes I come back to these videos for a bit of nostalgia actually, lol. Thank you for making these videos.
Thanks for the great comment. I guess I've been at this for a while! I still have many videos I want to make -- have made very few lately. The big thing for me now is promoting the book I've been working on for the past few years. I'll have the first video about that up soon. The book is A World of Chess: Its Development and Variations through Centuries and Civilizations, at AWorldofChess.com . Send me messages any time --
Yeah, that's basically it ... although, it was pretty popular in the old style also. Chess had already spread all over Europe; then when the 'new chess' came along, it replaced the old chess throughout Europe, within about 2 generations. Same name, same piece and board, with new rules.
So it was believed that ancient chess originated in either India or Persia. The Europeans modified it because it was too slow and took a while to finish the game. By allowing Castling, pawns moving 2 spaces on its initial move, en passant capturing, and by giving the Bishop more range and the Queen a lot more power...Chess, the way it is played now became more interesting and popular.
Cool video. I really like some of these old chess variants. Traditional chess is so regimented, and I dont have the patients to study all the damn moves and gambits.
Thanks for the comment. It is often said that this old form of chess moved too slowly for many players, which was the reason so many cultures created quicker ways of opening the game and getting things moving. Including of course our familiar 'European' form which has the powerful queen and bishop.
Hey Rick, first I want to tell you that I love your AncientChess channel on CZcams! It is great and be sure to keep the video coming! I really enjoy learning about the other forms of chess. It is fascinating. One question, do you sell the particular set you are showcasing in this video? Thanks!
CZcamsr Tony J mentions that the word Shatranj is still the word for chess in Arabic, now referring to modern chess. In the West, we generally use the word to refer to the old chess, known from when the word 'shatranj' first came into use. In a more general sense, this is simply the 'ancient' chess, as chess was played throughout the West and Middle East before the new rules that we still use today came into effect. Every language has its own word for it.
@@anandsuralkar2947 Chess IS indeed of Indian origin and Persians/Iranians today call modern chess Shatranj. We had many beautiful things come from India to Persia, even before Persia we were influenced by ancient Vedic Hinduism. We owe much to Hindustan in our foods, games, music, religions etc
I am sure that would be the best way to create and distribute awesome chess sets. But I am not sure there is incentive enough for people to create them because this is a limited interest hobby. I would download and 3d print these if I had a 3d printer.
The king's knight leap is a very interesting phenomenon which has appeared in many places, for centuries. It was often used in the shatranj of medieval Europe, and is still used in the Ouk of Cambodia. The queen leaping two spaces forward has a similar widespread popularity. While chess authors strive to give general-use accurate accounts, the details of regional conventions have always been variable. They only become unified when an official organization sets them down (like FIDE).
I'm an Arab, I don't know if this gonna help or not but we call chess "شطرنج" which is pronounced extremely similar to Shatranj with the exception of the letter T, we pronounce it as ط a letter in Arabic that to my knowledge doesn't have an equivalent in English. The names of the chess pieces are different as well but they all move the same way, and I will list them right now: 1- King is King, no difference here. 2- Queen is Minister - الوزير 3- Bishop - Elephant - الفيل 4- Rook - Castle - القلعة 5- Knight - Horse - الحصان 6- Pawn - Soldier - الجندي What's interesting is we share the names with the ancient chess but with the same rules as modern chess. Nearly all of the names are different from what they are in English. Great video.
Thanks! It's great to get reports on chess from different parts of the world, and really sheds light on how the game continues to evolve. Give comments any time!
Let me take a moment and thank you a lotttt.... Seriously thank you so much for this video. I was thinking if i would ever will be able to know how satrang used to look or was played.....and.....then I see this video. I am in all the awe and amazed. I never ever thought i would see an actual satrang and explained in such good video of such such good quality. Thank you so much sir. I cant thank you enough seriously. I dont know what to say. Still having said that please excuse me..i will become ashamed and take the opportunity to ask you.....WERE DID YOU GET THIS SIR????? Can i have a similar one please please please. Pls let me know. I ll wait for you reply eagerly. And before i leave thank thank thank you so much....I dont know wht to say
I think the rook used to be 180 to this so that points were behind/infront. When the pieces were first abstracted the peaks were of uneven height with I believe the highest at the back. the back peak was for the rider and the lower front one for the horses. Later I believe the shape was reinterpeted by some as being two horses side by side and so logically repositioned by half a turn and the peaks made of equal height and shape.
Thanks for your message. Upon review of my source books, I see that you are correct: all my books have this game, under the name Shatranj, with kings and queens facing each other as they do in modern chess. Sorry for my confusion! It may be a while before I can update my many publications to reflect this difference.
Yes, there are many variations, including the one you are describing. I do not remember where and when that king's special knight move was reported, but it gives him very interesting power. In particular, if he has never used his knight move, and the other player has, he could use his king to check or even checkmate the opposing king. There has been a more widespread rule which allows the king to move once like a knight, but only from his starting square.
@5tonyww I believe that Latrunculi was around before this chess version. The question of if Latrunculi is really an older style of chess, or if it should be classified as something different could be debated. Latrunculi was around since ancient rome, and has been mentioned in texts as early as 100 BC. There were only two types of pieces: pawns, and one king per player. Captures were made by surrounding opponents pieces, and the object was to immobilize the opponent's king.
Thanks for your question. The particular set in the video is made of plastic and in my own collection since I've never seen another like it. Got it on eBay a few years ago, listed as 'very weird chess set'. BUT I do sell some very similar sets made of wood (but I don't have them listed yet - sorry, working on that). I also have a smaller set (now listed) which is a replica of a 9th c. set dug up in Nishapur, Pursia (Iran). AncientChess com
True. The history of chess is filled with various ideas to speed up the game, and this idea of super queen and bishop really took hold. For a contrary view, search Khmer chess on youtube, and you'll see some very involved games in a form of chess much more like this ancient variant. Admittedly their game is speeded up by having pawns start on the 3rd row. But a game in which the rook is strongest and knight is second still offers many levels of intrigue. AWorldofChess.com
@HnefataflModern Thanks for the good comments! Yes, well observed: the kings do not start out facing each other as they do in our modern game. This is one of the things that was quick to change, as the game went from one place to another, but the arrangement you see here is the one most generally used. It is still the norm in modern Thai chess. I would like to have a version of Hnefatafl one of these days ... it's on the project list -- stay tuned!
Chess existed in the ancient form for about 1000 years. That's 500 years longer than the game we now play. The extraordinary spread of the game and records of grandmasters and enthusiasts would tend to indicate something along the lines of a great passion.
I've played shatranj a few times. The differences between it and modern chess are quite interesting. The game does take longer but is nonetheless engaging. Hans Bodelander, I think, once suggested a "modern shatranj" variant which ended up restoring most of orthodox chess to shatranj, but the only variable I'd go with is modifying the Elephant's move to give it an optional one-square diagonal move to improve its tactical value on the board and otherwise leave existing shatranj rules intact.
Hello Rick, I love your brilliant web site. Shatranj is my all time favourite chess variant. It has a less abstract feel than chess and has a realistic taste of a battle simulation in my opinion. But I believe this set up in this video is for "chaturanga", the Indian predecessor of shatranj. In shatranj kings face each other. The two are essentially the same game, except for some promotion rules (and that knight's move option for the king). The rules in your rule book are correct though.
hi dear ,i watched ur video,thx for uploading, i like to play chess in different variation,this SHATRANJ is our ancient game of INDIANS,,i wanna buy ur this pieces n board ,how i can? hv u made any video on CHATURANGA game ,, Chopat game ,,pachisi game ,,these are indian game,,ALL D BEST ,,
This particular chess set is in my personal collection, and I don't have boards exactly like this. But I do have similar sets, designed after the set in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. See my listings www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts
However chess may have first come about, it is widely accepted that Go preceded chess by several centuries. It's the oldest board game still popularly played today. ... but chess is kind of special in it's own way. Don't you think?
See the new ancient chess sets now listed at www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=rickofricks&LH_PrefLoc=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2499338.m570.l1313&_nkw=shatranj&_sacat=0
In India, most people who play chess still play the traditional shatranj. I also played shatraj. I have no idea how to play the european/western version. Our pieces did not look the way shown in this clip.
This is a fascinating bit of information! Where in India do you play? Can you tell us more about the rules and the pieces that are used? Please contact me through this link if you would care to tell me more about the chess you know from India: www.ancientchess.com/page/contact-form.htm
hi. I realize your video is a decade old but, I see you were active a little under a year ago, on this video. I am curious. I read that Sultan Khan had learned Indian chess before he had ever learned our version of chess and, had become the best player in his region, in his youth. Is Shatranj the form of chess this "Indian chess" is refering to, or is there another form of chess known as Indian chess? Do you happen to know?
Love the videos and I hope to get the Jungle board as a gift soon. Anyway, it seems there is another difference between European Chess and Shatranj--it looks as though the king and advisor (or queen) do not face each other in Shatranj as they do in Chess. Is that correct? It looks like white's king is on the white player's left side and not his right as it would be in Chess. Also, any chance on making/selling boards for Tafl (Tablut, Tawlbrwdd, etc.)?
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons
Thanks for this message. Yes, many scholars have interpreted the evidence in that way. Our book has a section (Part VII) entirely devoted to the evidence and theories for the first existence of chess. aworldofchess.com
This is a very interesting video, but there is something I would like to know, is Shatranj the same game as Chaturanga, or are there any differences? From what I can gather, the rules of Chaturanga are not completely known, for example, the movement of the elephant, while the rules of Shatranj are generally agreed upon. Is there anything Shatranj has introduced, or is it essentially the Persian version of Chaturanga?
From my research (i mean other people's research that I read) Shatranj kept all the original rules of the game except for counting the stalemate as a win, while in the Indian rules was forbidden, if not even punished with a loss (more or less as it is in standard Chess tournaments when you do an illegal move). The fact is that Shatranj kept its original rules over centuries, while Chaturanga rules got slightly modified over cenuries: these small changes were about the elephant move, the king position, the pawn promotion and the winning conditions... In the end we can say that "Shatranj is the original form of Chaturanga" (with that exception mentioned), while Chaturanga itself has no fixed rules.
Reply to Kersey475: There have been many variations of pawn promotion in the long history of this game. Most basic is that the pawn becomes a queen upon reaching the 18 rank (thus is enabled to move one space diagonally - not a powerful move). In some circles, the pawn became the piece of whichever file it was in (i.e., pawn on the knight square became a knight - but with exception for the king square)...these are only 2 possibilities. I have never seen Raumschach but would love to learn more...
@John Osman Thanks, good observation. But this is more the original, with Tamerlane chess branching off from this game. With Tamerlane, promotion is a little different. In that case, each pawn carries the identity of its corresponding piece the whole time, and may eventually promote to that. In this game, it doesn't matter where the pawn started out, for instance if it changes files during the game because of capturing. When this rule is enforced, it promotes to the piece of the file where it finally lands for promotion (except on the king square it becomes a 'queen' or advisor). In most versions of this game however, it just becomes an advisor (ferz or visier) regardless of where it promotes.
I actually know a variation of this chess called senterej or ethiopian chess It's main difference is that when the game starts there's a phase called mobilisation in which the players can move a peice or pawn wherever they liked without waiting turns (respecting the movement rules of the pieces of course ). The mobilisation phase ends when a peice is captured. The other difference is when a player only has a king left on the board it's a draw. And if a player has a king and one other peice the checkmate must be delivered before that one peice makes 7 moves or else it's a draw. There are also 2 types of checkmates called "honorable " and "dishonourable ". An honourable checkmate is a checkmate made by a counselor or an elephant. A dishonorable checkmate is when u checkmate with a rook or a knight.
Thanks very much for that detailed description. We cover this variant in the opening section of our book (p. 19). I wonder, have you ever played it, or know anyone who plays it? It is mostly only known from obscure corners of chess history books. Your info is much appreciated! aworldofchess.com
I don't know why but I just absolutely love this video which in turn makes me loves this game. I don't know, maybe I just like the pieces, yeah, definitely, I just like those pieces. I have 1 question to this 12 year old video. Does the king face each other? Because in Chaturanga the king does not face each other, but in Shatranj, it does, but in this video it seems like the king doesn't.
Thanks -- a good question! I do not know that answer to that, but I'll try to see if I find a source for it. It's likely that players did not use a uniform rule in all cases, since uniformity in rules was not widespread as it is today. And ancient manuscripts often omit many subtleties (..if they can be understood at all!)... I'll try to see if I can find authentic info on that.
Thanks for the good comment ... and question. I do not know of any place that still plays by the old rules of queen and bishop move. It seems the European queen and bishop became pretty widespread, even while some of the other details of 'international chess' didn't carry over. But more and more, our familiar 'international chess' is taking over most places. I would love to find the small isolated pockets of cultures that still maintain an ancient chess tradition like this!
+Sam Darvish Thanks for the message. The set shown in this video is my own personal set, but I sell sets in the same traditional style on my web site, AncientChess.com
I finally got HJR Murray's book on ebook. That book and your website a pretty much the only sources I have on the game. I am highly considering doing a paper on chess history for one of my classes.
+Daniel Alwine Thanks Daniel, it's good to know that Murray's book is available now as an ebook. Does that mean it can be searched for certain words and phrases? (i.e., random access?) To me that would make the book much more useful. Let me know if I can tell you anything I know about the game.
+AncientChess Yes it can be searched for certain words and phrases along with the ability to annotate and bookmark pages. And I have been using it a lot it's just that I need several sources(I believe 4-5)
Yes, it's a little weird to be calling this shatranj when it's really just the old form of chess, familiar to many countries in many languages. Shatranj is the word for chess still in many lands, referring now to the modern chess. We refer to this as Shatranj in English because it was the original historic name.
Yes, pawns capture diagonally in Shatranj, they move exactly like in Modern Chess except for not having the double step option at their first move. Not like Shogi, not like Xianqi, but just like Makruk! :))
You mentioned that instead of a "chariot", some regions used a "boat". I know the Indian game Chaturaji uses a boat. Do you know what the boat playing piece traditionally looked like?
Thanks good question. I don't think there is any record of how the 'boat' piece was depicted. There is currently a 'boat' in Cambodian chess (rook) and the traditional name of the rook in Russian, ladya, also means boat... but as far as I know, the original 'boat' depictions from when chaturaji was first reported has not been recorded.
Thanks for that good question. As far as we know, the king is checkmated, just as he is in the modern game, not actually captured. However, in this game, if all the opponent's pieces are captured except for the king, that is another way of winning. Many games are won in this manner, by "bare king". One other thing: If the king is trapped and the player has no possible move (stalemate), that is also a win for the attacking player. Detailed rules can be found here ancientchess.com/page/play-shatranj.htm and reproductions of ancient sets are listed here www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts
There was no consistent rule for all chess cultures in those days. The most common practice, used in many places in the world (I think still sometimes observed in Cambodia) is that the king is allowed to move once as a knight.
Shatranj, India's Oldest Chess is Really Hard & Tough to play! We can understand this by looking at these rules: 1) The elephant jumping 2 squares diagonally. 2) Counsellor/Minister/Queen just moving one square. 3) No diagonally moving Bishops. 4) No two squares jumping Pawns at its beginning move. 5) King & Opposition Minister placed opposite to each other, irrespective of matching the Queen color & the square color. 6) No En Passant. 7) No Castling. 8) Pawn will be promoted only to the piece present on the same file. 9) No Draws, Game is lost for the person if their King is found alone on the board, No need to Check & Checkmate. 10) No Checkered Squares. Finally, Sultan Khan is the Master in playing this Original Standard Hardest Shatranj! We are playing the Easiest New Chess, unlike the Original Hardest Shatranj! With out all these we are celebrating the world champions as idols!
Thanks for the message with all those details about the old chess form. I am not sure why you find it hard to play -- is it because it is different from what we have learned? Or because you find it inherently more difficult? I think it is, if anything, less complicated than the chess we play today -- not any more difficult to learn. And there is no need to be concerned about the difficulty of creating checkmate patterns with the relatively weak pieces. This game can also be won by capturing all the pieces except the king, leaving the enemy king defenseless. I believe you'll find that this is not the style of chess Mir Sutlan Khan played when he was in India. At that time, the innovation of the queen's powerful move and the bishop's long diagonal move were widespread in the subcontinent. However, the pawns did not have the initial double step in most Indian games at that time, so when Khan showed his mastery in Europe, he had to make that adjustment to his play.
@@AncientChess Actually, during our childhood times we don't know the pawn double step, pawn promotion, under promotion, we place queen opp to the opponents king, en passant, castling... We actually call Pawns as soldiers, knights as horses, rooks as elephants, bishops as camels, Queen as Minister(Manthri)(meaning there is no queen in the game). Except for capturing pieces, making a king alone...this old game is hard to play. We cant promote to any piece, we don't have the power of queen, No checkered squares. I am planning to play Shatranj with the modern pieces & these oldest rules! Sir, There are several changes made for this shatranj to this time period, Do you think any further changes will take place in the future for this modern chess!?
@@pranaytony This is very interesting that you have experienced this way of playing chess! I would like to know more about the exact rules you had in childhood, and where and when that was. If you have a chance, please contact me through my web site www.ancientchess.com/page/contact-form.htm It is a good question as to how chess will change in the future. The European (now 'international') game is so entrenched in its study and tournaments, it is hard to imagine those players trying a new game -- even if the new game proves to be better. But I do hope players will consider new possibilities. The tame they play now suffers so many draws at the highest level, and the game has been analyzed so much, it would be a great benefit to try something new. We have done much research regarding chess all over the world, past, present and possible future. Our work is consolidated in our book ( aworldofchess.com )
@@AncientChess I have mentioned everything in the above comments we know the rules about playing chess in old Indian style, Sir. Actually I came to know about these New Chess rules in this Corona Lockdown time period itself, Sir. I really don't like the idea of draws in any match especially in the final matches, as this is turning one's future playing possibilities upside down! Higher officials should consider this seriously! I have some serious suggestions, that King should be given some powers when he was left with a single pawn, 1) Like he shouldn't be touchable for some moves. 2) He should behave like a Queen or atleast like any other piece other than pawn & queen for some moves. 3) He should behave exactly like a piece in which file he was placed when he was left with his last pawn. (I am thinking about these rules from my childhood time onwards, the time when I understood playing this game! These are my very own thoughts to improve this game & respect to the king!) I have these suggestions for the king, cause he is the Life & Soul of this game, I would like to provide him some powers as a respect to him. If queen was made powerful from taking a single space to move to any corner, the king also should be made powerful at the last moment of the game with these above mentioned rules. With these improvements, this game will even increase its importance & respect of the king, richness, popularity & steps to be taken to not to go for draws. Shatranj is from Hindi language, We still & forever call this game as Shatranj or Chadharangamu(Telugu language)! We have a proverb in Telugu saying, 'Samsaaram/Jeevitham oka Chadharangam', meaning Life is a Game of Chess!
It's quite possible that that rule exists or existed somewhere, some time ... but it is not recorded as being the usual way of play in this form of the game. If any sort of castling was permitted in this game, it was usually that the king had the privilege of moving as a knight in his first move -- the rook was not involved in that special move. Castling as we know it was developed in Europe, probably in the 16th century. It went through a few variations before the standard rule was established, which is now familiar to us in international chess
I originally recommended Jocly.com, but that's no longer working. Now try pychess-variants.herokuapp.com/ ... and lichess.org/ ... you can select to 'create a game' and many variant
Check the your phones appstore/playstore, I was looking to learn shogi and ran into a few of different versions of chess. You may find what you're looking for there
@@TheInkPitOx Thanks, sorry, that was an old messsage. Try pychess-variants.herokuapp.com/ ... and lichess.org/ ... you can select to 'create a game' and many variant options come up.
Good question. I found it on eBay, about 18 years ago. This particular set is not available, but some sets can be found at www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts?_bkw=ancient
Thanks for your note -- but I don't exactly understand you're commenting on ... what I was thinking they were...? Yes, I have been collecting historic and cross-cultural chess sets for some time and now source them for other enthusiasts, through my website AncientChess . com
Thanks, that's a good observation. You can see the similarity with the knight's move, just heading in a different direction. It's interesting that when this game was widely played, there was no simple diagonal mover like our bishop. Perhaps the bishop's long diagonal was suggested when the boards became 'checkered', as the game entered Europe
Thanks for asking. The kings should be facing each other across the board. As long as you have that arrangement, it doesn't matter which is the black or white side. The older Persian variant was essentially the same game but with the kings not facing each other. In the former case, the counselors (advisors) never meet one another; in the latter case, the two can meet and possibly capture each other.
@@Nelly.Ramirez Good? Bad? I don't know .. all chess is Good. An interesting example of the 'ferz' pieces that can meet each other is in Cambodian chess. I have enjoyed following many games online (just search Khmer chess in CZcams). To make it even more involved, it's easy for the pawns ('fish' in Cambodian chess) to promote, and you end up with many 'ferzes' that do meet and many that don't. Anyway, I hope you get a chance to play these games and see what you find
Thanks for asking. There are (unfortunately) two games that go by the name chaturanga. One is a two-handed game, very much like the game shown in this video. The other is a 4-handed game, where each player has 8 chessmen each. The 4-handed game is sometimes called Chaturaji ("4 kings"), to distinguish it from the 2-handed variation. I'm sorry to say I don't have a video showing the play of the 4-handed game, but it is covered in detail in our book (mentioned very briefly in the following video at about 2:35) aworldofchess.com/video.html
well... you can only move the pawns one space at a time, so it would take a few more moves to get that position. Moving the king early on would not be very peculiar in this game, since there is no devastating queen to watch out for, and blocking your own queen would be no big deal. The elephants (bishops) would not be blocked anyway, since their move leaps over the intervening piece ... so yeah, bong cloud maybe possible, but not much of a hit
Thanks very much for that comment. Yes, I find it odd that we call this game 'shartranj' in English -- it just shows the European view of the historical moment when the game first entered that continent (from Arabic speakers). Since shatranj is now the name for modern chess, I think it is more clear to refer to this variant as 'ancient chess', as the game was played everywhere before the modern version took over.
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons
There are a few conflicting views. No one knows for certain -- chess existed before anyone was objectively writing about it. I'm doing some research on the subject ... stay tuned to Ancient Chess for new revelations!
Yes, probably even older. Our book goes into great detail (aworldofchess.com). The Met in NY has not only the oldest almost-complete set (just missing one pawn!)(12th c.), but even older loose pieces from around 850 AD. I made a reproduction of that set. www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=ancient&_ssn=rickofricks&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H1.Xnishapur.TRS0&_nkw=nishapur&_sacat=0
Thanks, it's great to hear from you! You are about the age I was when I first became fascinated by chess history. Please see the video about my 'chess childhood' at czcams.com/video/ger8Qsk_RMg/video.html
Yeah, I think that's the main reason our modern chess replaced this older version so successfully. It seems that everwhere chess went, people invented various ways of getting it to get going faster -- especially in the opening. ...But once the pieces get engaged, it's very much the same intense drama of endless possibilities.
@@Mn9daKing Thanks for the good comments. Yes, although we now play a standardized international game, the ancient roots of the game still exist around the world. "Bishop" was not a common character for that piece -- it just happened to be the English word. Also in Europe are 'runner' (as a courier), 'standard bearer' and even 'fool' in France... still the word for the chess piece today, although the rules are standardized so we play 'the same game'
Thanks for mentioning that, and for showing that in Arabic. It's a little awkward that we use the word 'shatranj' to mean the ancient form of chess, while it's the word that means 'chess' in many countries. I think just calling this game 'ancient chess' is more to the point.
@@drazini that's not Arabic. Its Persian. But we use the Arabic script to write things. Edit: it's also really nice that you respond to a comment on a 7 year old video. Rare to see interaction between content creator and the community these days.
Rick of AncientChess is timeless; born outside of space and cultural context; enigmatic; other-worldly; so is Rick; so is chess; so is the Great Mind of the games' transcendence. Come ye come ye play ye the game of chess everafter hither thither anon amen clickity click aum beding
Hey my Chess Friends!
I appear in this new 4-hour film series on the Culture of Chess!
INFO AND DOWNLOAD AT ideasroadshow.com/chess/
WATCH THE TRAILER AT czcams.com/video/zLnOklDkTGQ/video.html
DVD FOR PURCHASE ON AMAZON www.amazon.com//dp/B0C13M1B84/
I guess chess is essentially blitz Shatranj.
Well, yeah, it's got a few rules that make it come to a confrontation much faster. It seems that over chess history, many ideas were tried to get the old game going quicker, for instance, starting the pieces in one of several ta'biyat (Arablic), with the pieces starting essentially into a middle-game position. Now that the queen has such power in the modern game, we've got to be on our toes within the first few moves!
@@rickknowlton9990 this comment was 7 years ago damn
@@nuggystan9128 Crazy, right? I've been making these videos for a long time!
@@AncientChess I've an idea to improve Shatranj and the following rules are in addition to or modify those of the game :
1) Example of elephant's move : an elephant on d4 can jump/move on b6, f6, b2, f2, c3 and e3.
2) Example of prime minister's move : a PM on d4 can move on c5, e5, c3, e3 and d3 like the Old Monkey in Taikyoku shogi.
3) Pawns are promoted (promotion is mandatory) to the 7th line. A pawn is always promoted to a prime minister.
4) There's draw match either by repetition of moves 3 times or there's not enough pieces of both sides and the Kings are unable to enter the throne of the other after 50 moves or by stalemating.
5) A player wins either by checkmating the opponent's King or if its King manages to enter the throne of the opponent's King.
For example, at the very beginning Kings are on their respective throne (white King is on e1 and black King is on e8), white wins if he manages to bring its King to the opponent's throne on e8. A King can't enter the opponent's throne if it leads him to being checked.
@@alexandrebour7494 I think the changes you suggest will make a very good game. More dynamic than the existing old rules. Your minister's move is a very well known move of the elephant is Southeast Asian variants... and several of your additional rules have good historic precedents. You have stepped into a long line of chess improvers! Please send your thought any time. AworldofChess.com
I heard the king can make a knight's move only once in the entire game at any time, not necessarily just from the starting point.
That is cool.. i wish we would know the rules surely
That's Indian chess it helps to castle as their is no castle , my father taught me , kings are on opposite sides and anyone can make first move
Thanks for mentioning the king's leap. Yes, the king making a knight's move, as his first move, is a very widespread tradition. It is not mentioned in this video only because the rule is not universal -- but it is very common. The king's knight's leap is still an option in modern Cambodian chess.
And this move can only be made before checkmate.
So in this version of chess: the knight is more valuable than the bishop and the rooks are the most powerful pieces.
weird
Well that's not weird at all cuz In India rooks were used to be primary component of army and indians used to have huge numbers of mighty rooks so that's why it's so important
not that. But Elephants are not that weak. doesn’t make sense. Possibly they could smash the route in between the steps without stoping or something like that
@@bilalentilka well let me give you an example.. When alexander was eager to conquer India.. His army heard about giant army consisting of mighty elephants and they got scared.. So this is the importance of Elephants in India.. Maybe that could be possible reason for portraying rook as more powerful than knight or bishop
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons.
When the modern chess came out, it was called 'chess of the mad (or rabid) queen'. It really was a wild change and, surprisingly, it moved through Europe very quickly, replacing the rules that had been in place for centuries, within about 2 generations.
Where is it possible to buy the exact pieces and board of the video ?
I don't see the pieces and board on the site.
Interesting had not heard that before. I actually was just using chat gpt to try and quickly learn the history of how the queen is the most powerful. It said it started in italy in 15th century if I remember right, this is also how I also learned of Shatranj. Which brought me to this video, where i learned even more. Thanks!
That's absolutely right. Throughout most of chess history, the rook has always been the strongest piece, and the knight here is the second most powerful. It is only in Europe, around the turn of the 16th century (1500) that the queen was given such devastating power. "Chess of the Mad (or Rabid) Queen" they called it. Because of Europe's power in the world, that form of chess spread along with other European conventions.
I love these videos. I remember first finding your channel as a kid and getting super interested in international chess culture. Sometimes I come back to these videos for a bit of nostalgia actually, lol. Thank you for making these videos.
Thanks for the great comment. I guess I've been at this for a while! I still have many videos I want to make -- have made very few lately. The big thing for me now is promoting the book I've been working on for the past few years. I'll have the first video about that up soon. The book is A World of Chess: Its Development and Variations through Centuries and Civilizations, at AWorldofChess.com . Send me messages any time --
Yeah, that's basically it ... although, it was pretty popular in the old style also. Chess had already spread all over Europe; then when the 'new chess' came along, it replaced the old chess throughout Europe, within about 2 generations. Same name, same piece and board, with new rules.
*correction its origin is from India. From India it went to persia and then to europe
You can just bark without proof's
So it was believed that ancient chess originated in either India or Persia. The Europeans modified it because it was too slow and took a while to finish the game. By allowing Castling, pawns moving 2 spaces on its initial move, en passant capturing, and by giving the Bishop more range and the Queen a lot more power...Chess, the way it is played now became more interesting and popular.
It originated in India during Gupta empire
The queen got its power in Italy as a variation of chess and they called it "chess with the madwoman" which is pretty funny
Its orginated in India later went to persia
nice piece of art. The elephant reminds me of the one from chinese chess also 3 pace diagonally.
Cool video. I really like some of these old chess variants. Traditional chess is so regimented, and I dont have the patients to study all the damn moves and gambits.
I love the look of this set, the king and queen seem rather easy to confuse if theyre not right next to one another though.
Thanks for the comment. It is often said that this old form of chess moved too slowly for many players, which was the reason so many cultures created quicker ways of opening the game and getting things moving. Including of course our familiar 'European' form which has the powerful queen and bishop.
Very clear and succinct video. Heading over to your website now!
This game is more complicated then we play chess today....
No it isn't
@@szczypior2714
It is.
@@pafoneto1275 it really isn't
It is much LESS complex, but positional play is still very difficult.
Thank you for the information, this is exactly what i was looking for!
A pleasure to hear from you! Let me know if you have any questions or anything
Hey Rick, first I want to tell you that I love your AncientChess channel on CZcams! It is great and be sure to keep the video coming! I really enjoy learning about the other forms of chess. It is fascinating.
One question, do you sell the particular set you are showcasing in this video?
Thanks!
CZcamsr Tony J mentions that the word Shatranj is still the word for chess in Arabic, now referring to modern chess. In the West, we generally use the word to refer to the old chess, known from when the word 'shatranj' first came into use. In a more general sense, this is simply the 'ancient' chess, as chess was played throughout the West and Middle East before the new rules that we still use today came into effect. Every language has its own word for it.
AncientChess Shatranj is bad pronunciation of Chaturanga (pronounced shaturadgnya)
Plus stalemated player wins the game
Chess is Persian not Arabic.
In india we still use shatranj in hindi
@@muptezelkomedyen4316 chess is indian not persian
@@anandsuralkar2947 Chess IS indeed of Indian origin and Persians/Iranians today call modern chess Shatranj. We had many beautiful things come from India to Persia, even before Persia we were influenced by ancient Vedic Hinduism. We owe much to Hindustan in our foods, games, music, religions etc
I reckon the 3D printer will have an interesting effect on folks accessing some very nice chess sets..
I am sure that would be the best way to create and distribute awesome chess sets. But I am not sure there is incentive enough for people to create them because this is a limited interest hobby. I would download and 3d print these if I had a 3d printer.
@@StopFear so did you get a 3d printer?
The king's knight leap is a very interesting phenomenon which has appeared in many places, for centuries. It was often used in the shatranj of medieval Europe, and is still used in the Ouk of Cambodia. The queen leaping two spaces forward has a similar widespread popularity. While chess authors strive to give general-use accurate accounts, the details of regional conventions have always been variable. They only become unified when an official organization sets them down (like FIDE).
I'm an Arab, I don't know if this gonna help or not but we call chess "شطرنج" which is pronounced extremely similar to Shatranj with the exception of the letter T, we pronounce it as ط a letter in Arabic that to my knowledge doesn't have an equivalent in English.
The names of the chess pieces are different as well but they all move the same way, and I will list them right now:
1- King is King, no difference here.
2- Queen is Minister - الوزير
3- Bishop - Elephant - الفيل
4- Rook - Castle - القلعة
5- Knight - Horse - الحصان
6- Pawn - Soldier - الجندي
What's interesting is we share the names with the ancient chess but with the same rules as modern chess. Nearly all of the names are different from what they are in English.
Great video.
Thanks! It's great to get reports on chess from different parts of the world, and really sheds light on how the game continues to evolve. Give comments any time!
Thank you very much i was searching for the rules of ancient chess
Let me take a moment and thank you a lotttt.... Seriously thank you so much for this video. I was thinking if i would ever will be able to know how satrang used to look or was played.....and.....then I see this video. I am in all the awe and amazed. I never ever thought i would see an actual satrang and explained in such good video of such such good quality. Thank you so much sir. I cant thank you enough seriously. I dont know what to say. Still having said that please excuse me..i will become ashamed and take the opportunity to ask you.....WERE DID YOU GET THIS SIR????? Can i have a similar one please please please. Pls let me know. I ll wait for you reply eagerly. And before i leave thank thank thank you so much....I dont know wht to say
I think the rook used to be 180 to this so that points were behind/infront. When the pieces were first abstracted the peaks were of uneven height with I believe the highest at the back. the back peak was for the rider and the lower front one for the horses. Later I believe the shape was reinterpeted by some as being two horses side by side and so logically repositioned by half a turn and the peaks made of equal height and shape.
Thanks for your message. Upon review of my source books, I see that you are correct: all my books have this game, under the name Shatranj, with kings and queens facing each other as they do in modern chess. Sorry for my confusion! It may be a while before I can update my many publications to reflect this difference.
Yes, there are many variations, including the one you are describing. I do not remember where and when that king's special knight move was reported, but it gives him very interesting power. In particular, if he has never used his knight move, and the other player has, he could use his king to check or even checkmate the opposing king. There has been a more widespread rule which allows the king to move once like a knight, but only from his starting square.
@5tonyww I believe that Latrunculi was around before this chess version. The question of if Latrunculi is really an older style of chess, or if it should be classified as something different could be debated. Latrunculi was around since ancient rome, and has been mentioned in texts as early as 100 BC. There were only two types of pieces: pawns, and one king per player. Captures were made by surrounding opponents pieces, and the object was to immobilize the opponent's king.
Thanks for your question. The particular set in the video is made of plastic and in my own collection since I've never seen another like it. Got it on eBay a few years ago, listed as 'very weird chess set'. BUT I do sell some very similar sets made of wood (but I don't have them listed yet - sorry, working on that). I also have a smaller set (now listed) which is a replica of a 9th c. set dug up in Nishapur, Pursia (Iran). AncientChess com
I'm glad that shatranj evolved into modern chess... it's the gradual changes gave the game more speed and action.
True. The history of chess is filled with various ideas to speed up the game, and this idea of super queen and bishop really took hold. For a contrary view, search Khmer chess on youtube, and you'll see some very involved games in a form of chess much more like this ancient variant. Admittedly their game is speeded up by having pawns start on the 3rd row. But a game in which the rook is strongest and knight is second still offers many levels of intrigue.
AWorldofChess.com
@HnefataflModern Thanks for the good comments! Yes, well observed: the kings do not start out facing each other as they do in our modern game. This is one of the things that was quick to change, as the game went from one place to another, but the arrangement you see here is the one most generally used. It is still the norm in modern Thai chess. I would like to have a version of Hnefatafl one of these days ... it's on the project list -- stay tuned!
First time I see this. Thank you very much for sharing🙏🙏🙏
It is a pleasure. I appreciate your good comment! :)
Is it know what the thought process was behind how each piece moved when the first version of chess was invented?
Chess existed in the ancient form for about 1000 years. That's 500 years longer than the game we now play. The extraordinary spread of the game and records of grandmasters and enthusiasts would tend to indicate something along the lines of a great passion.
I was very curious about this, Thanks even if its 10 years old
I've played shatranj a few times. The differences between it and modern chess are quite interesting. The game does take longer but is nonetheless engaging. Hans Bodelander, I think, once suggested a "modern shatranj" variant which ended up restoring most of orthodox chess to shatranj, but the only variable I'd go with is modifying the Elephant's move to give it an optional one-square diagonal move to improve its tactical value on the board and otherwise leave existing shatranj rules intact.
Hello Rick,
I love your brilliant web site. Shatranj is my all time favourite chess variant. It has a less abstract feel than chess and has a realistic taste of a battle simulation in my opinion. But I believe this set up in this video is for "chaturanga", the Indian predecessor of shatranj. In shatranj kings face each other. The two are essentially the same game, except for some promotion rules (and that knight's move option for the king). The rules in your rule book are correct though.
hi dear ,i watched ur video,thx for uploading,
i like to play chess in different variation,this SHATRANJ is our ancient game of INDIANS,,i wanna buy ur this pieces n board ,how i can?
hv u made any video on CHATURANGA game ,,
Chopat game ,,pachisi game ,,these are indian game,,ALL D BEST ,,
In Iran we still call the pieces "phill" : elephant and "vasir" : advisor and "asb" : horse :) took the child me 2 years to get the new names right
In arabic we call the chess shitrang and we call the queen a minister and the rest of pieces are the same with Iran
dja know where to buy that or other kind of indian peacea?
even though i don't play any of the chess, sure do like to hear you explaining them (Y)
Where did you get this set?
Great video. Thank You
Thanks Deane! Send your thoughts or questions any time. The video of our book is at aworldofchess.com/video.html
This particular chess set is in my personal collection, and I don't have boards exactly like this. But I do have similar sets, designed after the set in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. See my listings www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts
However chess may have first come about, it is widely accepted that Go preceded chess by several centuries. It's the oldest board game still popularly played today. ... but chess is kind of special in it's own way. Don't you think?
See the new ancient chess sets now listed at www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=rickofricks&LH_PrefLoc=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2499338.m570.l1313&_nkw=shatranj&_sacat=0
In India, most people who play chess still play the traditional shatranj. I also played shatraj. I have no idea how to play the european/western version. Our pieces did not look the way shown in this clip.
This is a fascinating bit of information! Where in India do you play? Can you tell us more about the rules and the pieces that are used? Please contact me through this link if you would care to tell me more about the chess you know from India: www.ancientchess.com/page/contact-form.htm
hi. I realize your video is a decade old but, I see you were active a little under a year ago, on this video. I am curious. I read that Sultan Khan had learned Indian chess before he had ever learned our version of chess and, had become the best player in his region, in his youth. Is Shatranj the form of chess this "Indian chess" is refering to, or is there another form of chess known as Indian chess? Do you happen to know?
Love your videos, explained very well!👍
How do you mean?
Love the videos and I hope to get the Jungle board as a gift soon. Anyway, it seems there is another difference between European Chess and Shatranj--it looks as though the king and advisor (or queen) do not face each other in Shatranj as they do in Chess. Is that correct? It looks like white's king is on the white player's left side and not his right as it would be in Chess. Also, any chance on making/selling boards for Tafl (Tablut, Tawlbrwdd, etc.)?
If a pawn gets to the end of the board, can you exchange it for a rook?
sets name ?
After knight and elephant development, king moves one step forward, chariot is to moved out manually, then king plays the knight move to castle.
"I don't know what you where thinking they were :-D"
Beautifull chesssets in your vids by the way. Do you own all off those?
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons
Thanks for this message. Yes, many scholars have interpreted the evidence in that way. Our book has a section (Part VII) entirely devoted to the evidence and theories for the first existence of chess.
aworldofchess.com
This is a very interesting video, but there is something I would like to know, is Shatranj the same game as Chaturanga, or are there any differences? From what I can gather, the rules of Chaturanga are not completely known, for example, the movement of the elephant, while the rules of Shatranj are generally agreed upon. Is there anything Shatranj has introduced, or is it essentially the Persian version of Chaturanga?
From my research (i mean other people's research that I read) Shatranj kept all the original rules of the game except for counting the stalemate as a win, while in the Indian rules was forbidden, if not even punished with a loss (more or less as it is in standard Chess tournaments when you do an illegal move). The fact is that Shatranj kept its original rules over centuries, while Chaturanga rules got slightly modified over cenuries: these small changes were about the elephant move, the king position, the pawn promotion and the winning conditions... In the end we can say that "Shatranj is the original form of Chaturanga" (with that exception mentioned), while Chaturanga itself has no fixed rules.
Reply to Kersey475: There have been many variations of pawn promotion in the long history of this game. Most basic is that the pawn becomes a queen upon reaching the 18 rank (thus is enabled to move one space diagonally - not a powerful move). In some circles, the pawn became the piece of whichever file it was in (i.e., pawn on the knight square became a knight - but with exception for the king square)...these are only 2 possibilities. I have never seen Raumschach but would love to learn more...
@John Osman Thanks, good observation. But this is more the original, with Tamerlane chess branching off from this game. With Tamerlane, promotion is a little different. In that case, each pawn carries the identity of its corresponding piece the whole time, and may eventually promote to that. In this game, it doesn't matter where the pawn started out, for instance if it changes files during the game because of capturing. When this rule is enforced, it promotes to the piece of the file where it finally lands for promotion (except on the king square it becomes a 'queen' or advisor). In most versions of this game however, it just becomes an advisor (ferz or visier) regardless of where it promotes.
I actually know a variation of this chess called senterej or ethiopian chess
It's main difference is that when the game starts there's a phase called mobilisation in which the players can move a peice or pawn wherever they liked without waiting turns (respecting the movement rules of the pieces of course ). The mobilisation phase ends when a peice is captured.
The other difference is when a player only has a king left on the board it's a draw. And if a player has a king and one other peice the checkmate must be delivered before that one peice makes 7 moves or else it's a draw.
There are also 2 types of checkmates called "honorable " and "dishonourable ". An honourable checkmate is a checkmate made by a counselor or an elephant. A dishonorable checkmate is when u checkmate with a rook or a knight.
Thanks very much for that detailed description.
We cover this variant in the opening section of our book (p. 19). I wonder, have you ever played it, or know anyone who plays it? It is mostly only known from obscure corners of chess history books. Your info is much appreciated!
aworldofchess.com
I don't know why but I just absolutely love this video which in turn makes me loves this game.
I don't know, maybe I just like the pieces, yeah, definitely, I just like those pieces.
I have 1 question to this 12 year old video.
Does the king face each other? Because in Chaturanga the king does not face each other, but in Shatranj, it does, but in this video it seems like the king doesn't.
Where is it possible to buy the exact pieces and board of the video ?
I don't see the pieces and board on the site.
Do you know if the king was allowed to make the knights move that you mentioned if he was in check?
Thanks -- a good question! I do not know that answer to that, but I'll try to see if I find a source for it. It's likely that players did not use a uniform rule in all cases, since uniformity in rules was not widespread as it is today. And ancient manuscripts often omit many subtleties (..if they can be understood at all!)... I'll try to see if I can find authentic info on that.
awesome
Is Shatranj still popular anywhere? I really love your videos :)
Thanks for the good comment ... and question. I do not know of any place that still plays by the old rules of queen and bishop move. It seems the European queen and bishop became pretty widespread, even while some of the other details of 'international chess' didn't carry over. But more and more, our familiar 'international chess' is taking over most places. I would love to find the small isolated pockets of cultures that still maintain an ancient chess tradition like this!
Hi, where I can buy a Chess Set like yours?
Thanks for asking. 'i do not have this exact set for sale, but some similar sets can be found at www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts?_bkw=shatranj
Great video !
Where can you buy this set ?
+Sam Darvish Thanks for the message. The set shown in this video is my own personal set, but I sell sets in the same traditional style on my web site, AncientChess.com
I finally got HJR Murray's book on ebook. That book and your website a pretty much the only sources I have on the game. I am highly considering doing a paper on chess history for one of my classes.
+Daniel Alwine Thanks Daniel, it's good to know that Murray's book is available now as an ebook. Does that mean it can be searched for certain words and phrases? (i.e., random access?) To me that would make the book much more useful.
Let me know if I can tell you anything I know about the game.
+AncientChess Yes it can be searched for certain words and phrases along with the ability to annotate and bookmark pages. And I have been using it a lot it's just that I need several sources(I believe 4-5)
+Daniel Alwine That's fantastic! Where did you find it? I want to get a digital copy!
I got it from Google Play. $9.99
it's funny cuz shatranj means chess ( international chess to be specific) in arabic
Yes, it's a little weird to be calling this shatranj when it's really just the old form of chess, familiar to many countries in many languages. Shatranj is the word for chess still in many lands, referring now to the modern chess. We refer to this as Shatranj in English because it was the original historic name.
@Kersey475 Thanks, I Wiki'd it. Looks like a great game. I wonder how we could make a good playing set for that.
I wonder if the pawns still capture diagonally? I know in Shogi they do not.
Yes, pawns capture diagonally in Shatranj, they move exactly like in Modern Chess except for not having the double step option at their first move. Not like Shogi, not like Xianqi, but just like Makruk! :))
Where I can buy set?
Thanks for your message. I do not have this exact set for sale. What I do have can be found at ancientchess.com
You mentioned that instead of a "chariot", some regions used a "boat". I know the Indian game Chaturaji uses a boat. Do you know what the boat playing piece traditionally looked like?
Thanks good question. I don't think there is any record of how the 'boat' piece was depicted. There is currently a 'boat' in Cambodian chess (rook) and the traditional name of the rook in Russian, ladya, also means boat... but as far as I know, the original 'boat' depictions from when chaturaji was first reported has not been recorded.
Very interesting indeed . So does the king actually have to get captured then ?
Thanks for that good question. As far as we know, the king is checkmated, just as he is in the modern game, not actually captured.
However, in this game, if all the opponent's pieces are captured except for the king, that is another way of winning. Many games are won in this manner, by "bare king". One other thing: If the king is trapped and the player has no possible move (stalemate), that is also a win for the attacking player. Detailed rules can be found here
ancientchess.com/page/play-shatranj.htm
and reproductions of ancient sets are listed here
www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts
so what is the variance of the castling?
There was no consistent rule for all chess cultures in those days. The most common practice, used in many places in the world (I think still sometimes observed in Cambodia) is that the king is allowed to move once as a knight.
Shatranj, India's Oldest Chess is Really Hard & Tough to play!
We can understand this by looking at these rules:
1) The elephant jumping 2 squares diagonally.
2) Counsellor/Minister/Queen just moving one square.
3) No diagonally moving Bishops.
4) No two squares jumping Pawns at its beginning move.
5) King & Opposition Minister placed opposite to each other, irrespective of matching the Queen color & the square color.
6) No En Passant.
7) No Castling.
8) Pawn will be promoted only to the piece present on the same file.
9) No Draws, Game is lost for the person if their King is found alone on the board, No need to Check & Checkmate.
10) No Checkered Squares.
Finally,
Sultan Khan is the Master in playing this Original Standard Hardest Shatranj!
We are playing the Easiest New Chess, unlike the Original Hardest Shatranj!
With out all these we are celebrating the world champions as idols!
Thanks for the message with all those details about the old chess form. I am not sure why you find it hard to play -- is it because it is different from what we have learned? Or because you find it inherently more difficult? I think it is, if anything, less complicated than the chess we play today -- not any more difficult to learn.
And there is no need to be concerned about the difficulty of creating checkmate patterns with the relatively weak pieces. This game can also be won by capturing all the pieces except the king, leaving the enemy king defenseless.
I believe you'll find that this is not the style of chess Mir Sutlan Khan played when he was in India. At that time, the innovation of the queen's powerful move and the bishop's long diagonal move were widespread in the subcontinent. However, the pawns did not have the initial double step in most Indian games at that time, so when Khan showed his mastery in Europe, he had to make that adjustment to his play.
@@AncientChess
Actually, during our childhood times we don't know the pawn double step, pawn promotion, under promotion, we place queen opp to the opponents king, en passant, castling... We actually call Pawns as soldiers, knights as horses, rooks as elephants, bishops as camels, Queen as Minister(Manthri)(meaning there is no queen in the game).
Except for capturing pieces, making a king alone...this old game is hard to play.
We cant promote to any piece, we don't have the power of queen,
No checkered squares.
I am planning to play Shatranj with the modern pieces & these oldest rules!
Sir, There are several changes made for this shatranj to this time period,
Do you think any further changes will take place in the future for this modern chess!?
@@pranaytony This is very interesting that you have experienced this way of playing chess! I would like to know more about the exact rules you had in childhood, and where and when that was. If you have a chance, please contact me through my web site www.ancientchess.com/page/contact-form.htm
It is a good question as to how chess will change in the future. The European (now 'international') game is so entrenched in its study and tournaments, it is hard to imagine those players trying a new game -- even if the new game proves to be better.
But I do hope players will consider new possibilities. The tame they play now suffers so many draws at the highest level, and the game has been analyzed so much, it would be a great benefit to try something new.
We have done much research regarding chess all over the world, past, present and possible future. Our work is consolidated in our book ( aworldofchess.com )
@@AncientChess
I have mentioned everything in the above comments we know the rules about playing chess in old Indian style, Sir.
Actually I came to know about these New Chess rules in this Corona Lockdown time period itself, Sir.
I really don't like the idea of draws in any match especially in the final matches, as this is turning one's future playing possibilities upside down!
Higher officials should consider this seriously!
I have some serious suggestions, that King should be given some powers when he was left with a single pawn,
1) Like he shouldn't be touchable for some moves.
2) He should behave like a Queen or atleast like any other piece other than pawn & queen for some moves.
3) He should behave exactly like a piece in which file he was placed when he was left with his last pawn.
(I am thinking about these rules from my childhood time onwards, the time when I understood playing this game!
These are my very own thoughts to improve this game & respect to the king!)
I have these suggestions for the king, cause he is the Life & Soul of this game, I would like to provide him some powers as a respect to him.
If queen was made powerful from taking a single space to move to any corner, the king also should be made powerful at the last moment of the game with these above mentioned rules.
With these improvements, this game will even increase its importance & respect of the king, richness, popularity & steps to be taken to not to go for draws.
Shatranj is from Hindi language,
We still & forever call this game as Shatranj or Chadharangamu(Telugu language)!
We have a proverb in Telugu saying, 'Samsaaram/Jeevitham oka Chadharangam', meaning Life is a Game of Chess!
Cool
Hey Glitch thanks for the good comment. Here's a video about the book we wrote on the subject .. good viewing!
aworldofchess.com/video.html
Hey I heard from agadmador that we can castle and we can place our rook on e1 or f1 according to our need
It's quite possible that that rule exists or existed somewhere, some time ... but it is not recorded as being the usual way of play in this form of the game. If any sort of castling was permitted in this game, it was usually that the king had the privilege of moving as a knight in his first move -- the rook was not involved in that special move. Castling as we know it was developed in Europe, probably in the 16th century. It went through a few variations before the standard rule was established, which is now familiar to us in international chess
is there anywhere online I can play ancient chess ?
I originally recommended Jocly.com, but that's no longer working. Now try pychess-variants.herokuapp.com/
... and lichess.org/
... you can select to 'create a game' and many variant
Check the your phones appstore/playstore, I was looking to learn shogi and ran into a few of different versions of chess. You may find what you're looking for there
You can play Shatranj here = www.iggamecenter.com/info/en/main.html
@@AncientChess Link is dead
@@TheInkPitOx Thanks, sorry, that was an old messsage. Try pychess-variants.herokuapp.com/
... and lichess.org/
... you can select to 'create a game' and many variant options come up.
where did you brought the set of shatranj
Good question. I found it on eBay, about 18 years ago. This particular set is not available, but some sets can be found at www.ebay.com/str/worldchessandfinearts?_bkw=ancient
@@AncientChess ok thanks
Yes, the two must be from the same origin. Exactly how this game arose in Persia and India, and xiangqi arose in China is a bit of a mystery.
At the end India comes and we found that every thing is originated from India.
Vow.
Thanks for your note -- but I don't exactly understand you're commenting on ... what I was thinking they were...?
Yes, I have been collecting historic and cross-cultural chess sets for some time and now source them for other enthusiasts, through my website AncientChess . com
The elephant is like a really weird knight bishop cross.
Thanks, that's a good observation. You can see the similarity with the knight's move, just heading in a different direction. It's interesting that when this game was widely played, there was no simple diagonal mover like our bishop. Perhaps the bishop's long diagonal was suggested when the boards became 'checkered', as the game entered Europe
How to set up your shatranj pieces correctly? king is at left hand? or right hand o.O
Thanks for asking. The kings should be facing each other across the board. As long as you have that arrangement, it doesn't matter which is the black or white side.
The older Persian variant was essentially the same game but with the kings not facing each other.
In the former case, the counselors (advisors) never meet one another; in the latter case, the two can meet and possibly capture each other.
@@AncientChess awww thx for replying Rick. So .. the ferz never can capture Each other, right? So, is that good? Or bad haha
@@Nelly.Ramirez Good? Bad? I don't know .. all chess is Good. An interesting example of the 'ferz' pieces that can meet each other is in Cambodian chess. I have enjoyed following many games online (just search Khmer chess in CZcams). To make it even more involved, it's easy for the pawns ('fish' in Cambodian chess) to promote, and you end up with many 'ferzes' that do meet and many that don't. Anyway, I hope you get a chance to play these games and see what you find
@@AncientChess thx in advanced haha
What about Chaturanga?
Thanks for asking. There are (unfortunately) two games that go by the name chaturanga. One is a two-handed game, very much like the game shown in this video. The other is a 4-handed game, where each player has 8 chessmen each. The 4-handed game is sometimes called Chaturaji ("4 kings"), to distinguish it from the 2-handed variation. I'm sorry to say I don't have a video showing the play of the 4-handed game, but it is covered in detail in our book (mentioned very briefly in the following video at about 2:35) aworldofchess.com/video.html
can you bongcloud in this?
well... you can only move the pawns one space at a time, so it would take a few more moves to get that position. Moving the king early on would not be very peculiar in this game, since there is no devastating queen to watch out for, and blocking your own queen would be no big deal. The elephants (bishops) would not be blocked anyway, since their move leaps over the intervening piece ... so yeah, bong cloud maybe possible, but not much of a hit
Advisor : *Moves 5 spaces diagonally*
i’m looking for arab, indian and persian chess sets. i’m learning persian shatranj rules, but i like international chess rules with abstract pieces
Great that you're taking an interest! Let me know if I can help with anything
Chess orginated in India later went to Persia
It's still challed "Shatranj" in arabic and we still use the names as "elephant" for the bishop and "minister" for the queen
Thanks very much for that comment. Yes, I find it odd that we call this game 'shartranj' in English -- it just shows the European view of the historical moment when the game first entered that continent (from Arabic speakers). Since shatranj is now the name for modern chess, I think it is more clear to refer to this variant as 'ancient chess', as the game was played everywhere before the modern version took over.
@@AncientChess Yes man you are absolutely right this definitely should be called "ancient chess"
Yes, shatranj(now known as chess)was invented in india in 8th century, it was not a game but a mode to make strategies in real life wars so it was different then it passed to arabs then medieval and ways of moving and strategies keep changing as per advancements in weapons
Its first name was chaturanga
There are a few conflicting views. No one knows for certain -- chess existed before anyone was objectively writing about it. I'm doing some research on the subject ... stay tuned to Ancient Chess for new revelations!
Shatranj Is Came From North East Iran and has 900 years old history
Oldest Shatranj From Iran is in new York museum also known Persian chees
Yes, probably even older. Our book goes into great detail (aworldofchess.com). The Met in NY has not only the oldest almost-complete set (just missing one pawn!)(12th c.), but even older loose pieces from around 850 AD. I made a reproduction of that set. www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=ancient&_ssn=rickofricks&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H1.Xnishapur.TRS0&_nkw=nishapur&_sacat=0
im 12 years later here and shocked to know that crusaders played this
Thanks, it's great to hear from you! You are about the age I was when I first became fascinated by chess history. Please see the video about my 'chess childhood' at
czcams.com/video/ger8Qsk_RMg/video.html
@@AncientChess sure ill check it out
Y do v need queen in this variation
v? I don't know what is meant here. This type of chess has a king's adviser, where modern European chess has a queen
Looks like customized chocolate pieces..hehe..nice video mate
Thanks for the good comment. I think from now on, I'll look at those pieces imagining creamy cherries inside!
This game makes Chess feel fast and aggressive.
Yeah, I think that's the main reason our modern chess replaced this older version so successfully. It seems that everwhere chess went, people invented various ways of getting it to get going faster -- especially in the opening.
...But once the pieces get engaged, it's very much the same intense drama of endless possibilities.
Please make a new video🙏🏼
Thanks for the encouragement. I have made very little tha past few years. Perhaps this time at home will give me a chance. :) Stay well...
Interestingly, in modern chess, the bishop in Arabic we still call it an elephant!
and also the queen is still called a councillor or a minister. this is really interesting
@@Mn9daKing Thanks for the good comments. Yes, although we now play a standardized international game, the ancient roots of the game still exist around the world. "Bishop" was not a common character for that piece -- it just happened to be the English word. Also in Europe are 'runner' (as a courier), 'standard bearer' and even 'fool' in France... still the word for the chess piece today, although the rules are standardized so we play 'the same game'
Interestingly modern chess is still called shatranj or شطرنج in Iran although we use the modern pieces and rules.
Thanks for mentioning that, and for showing that in Arabic.
It's a little awkward that we use the word 'shatranj' to mean the ancient form of chess, while it's the word that means 'chess' in many countries. I think just calling this game 'ancient chess' is more to the point.
(this is Rick speaking ... I am on my daughter's account 'Drazini' -- it's just what the computer brought up ...)
@@drazini that's not Arabic. Its Persian. But we use the Arabic script to write things.
Edit: it's also really nice that you respond to a comment on a 7 year old video. Rare to see interaction between content creator and the community these days.
It might look like Chess, but the units are closer to Xiangqi.
Yes, exactly! It shows that the two types of chess are from the same original source
Excellent channel.
Thanks for the great comment! Tell your friends :)
I collect a list of my videos on this page:
ancientchess.com/page/videos.htm
the dude's hair and clothing looks ancient
Rick of AncientChess is timeless; born outside of space and cultural context; enigmatic; other-worldly; so is Rick; so is chess; so is the Great Mind of the games' transcendence. Come ye come ye play ye the game of chess everafter hither thither anon amen clickity click aum beding