A Catamaran With A Difference: The Vision 444's Unique Design
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- The Vision 444 is a catamaran with a difference: originally designed for a wheelchair user, the design has evolved into a spacious and ergonomic space. In this week's episode we take a tour around this unique offering to the catamaran market and leave impressed with the build quality and liveability.
Note: the engine can be lifted through the hatches :)
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Hey there! We're Nick and Terysa and we’ve become completely obsessed with the idea of sailing around the world and sharing our experiences and information through our sailing lifestyle videos with others.
We met travelling around India, and quickly agreed that rather than “settling down” and doing what most normal people do, we wanted to travel and adventure instead and started our sailing lifestyle adventure stories, since then, we’ve been working hard towards achieving our dreams, and now we’re finally living them as sailing cruising lifestyle!
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I’m not wheelchair bound, but I am mobility challenged. Something like this gives me hope.
That's fantastic. There's always a way.
Dazcat in the UK have built performance ocean cruising catamarans for people with reduced mobility, including the wheel chair bound. Different sort of boats, in that Dazcats are performance orientated, but it does show that sailing, especially multihulls, can be open to people with physical issues (bank balance permitting).
FINALLY❤ A boat that is More practical than most and feels safer to move around for people that have difficulty with walking. Lots of very interesting things I love about this boat. Apparently the boat builders are quite open to discussing client's needs and can change smaller details etc.
South African built.
The 444 truly is one of the best cats being built for a “reasonable” price in the 45’ range. The base boat is LOADED with options that other builders would charge extra for and its construction makes it pretty light so the smaller sail area isn’t really a problem at all. BTW also Cruising Worlds 2024 Multihull of the Year under 50’. Pretty sure there is an open slot of 2 before #38 (even though that is sold) and prices are lower I hear on the earlier slots as each slot is inflation adjusted. At the show #38 was $888k but earlier slots were under $800k
Okay thanks, they may have been sold by now
Did a short sail on this after being on a lagoon. The difference was stark. Im not a sailer by any stretch but even i could tell and feel how light and responsive whe felt under sail. It was an absolute pleasure. This boat has been on my short list ever since.
Very unique catamaran, disabled myself I can feel where one who is also, feel a sense of freedom when sailing.
Live the head towels.
In the vision 444 promotional write up they mention that it is possible to remove engines through the hatches. 👍
Yep, saw that after I uploaded the video. Obviously they get a lot of questions about that. I added that info to the description.
I think Nick is right though, the *engine* fits, but you might have to remove all the accessories (alternator, filters, coolant reservoir?) before the engine is ready to come out without any drama.
@@sailingrubyrose are they using sail drive under the bed?? I thought it was a shaft drive at first but I saw a comment stating they are using sail drives under it... Is that accurate? If so... what a SHAME!! If u hit something (god forbid) and get a hole u compromise all the hull since it doesn't seem to be watertight at all...
The Vision 444 is my absolute favorite cat around 45 feet.
Amazing
💯👍
I was able to tour Kon-Tiki at the boat show last fall. It was actually one of my favorites on display.
Another great review guys! This was one of my wife and I’s favourite boats at the show. I’m surprised Nick didn’t gush over the maintenance closets on this boat. There was great attention to detail with thru hull fittings and having everything located in one spot (per hull).
Did you guys get a chance to look at the Catana OC50 by chance and can we expect a review of that boat??
I really like your presentation. Your tour is informative and shows aspects that only an owner sailing team can present. I've followed your channel for a number of years and am very appreciative you share your life and experience with your audience.
I first watched you two when you were reviewing boats in search of RR2. While I prefer your adventure videos, you're still really good at reviews! Versatility is an asset!
🏆The Vision 444 is my choice of the cats of this size. 👉The invisible strength in the 444 is the watertight compartmentalisation between the floor and hull. Also their Vinyl Ester Resin build is a high quality construction choice rarely offered by others. Not enough said about it IMO. I have little concern about a 'crash box' at he bow, but if one could be added as an option, I'm sure it would satisfy such worries.
I like the boom-furling option best, and I would love to see the HH engine/power options made available for the Vision 444. I can also envision a simple, lightweight lowerable swim platform/ folding transom catwalk, with sliding poles built within the davits/coach roof posts on the transom! - a new custom option perhaps?
I have heard no complaints about helm visibility from those who share videos of actual sailing on the 444, even through reef shallows, but would agree that a built-in step-up feature would be a satisfying add-on, especially when slow manoeuvring; - the more viz the better, no matter the vessel. I much prefer the _single_ raised helm position over the dual helm options offered elsewhere.
There is a "crash box" in the bow. About 6" of foam core at the very tip and then a 2ft water tight compartment.
I think a camera or two will enhance visibility issues.
Love the reviews. Would appreciate more discussion about vessel construction i.e. core materials, bulkhead tabbing and construction. These are the things I worry about in production boats. FWIW, I toured this boat at the same show and came away very impressed.
The engine does fit through the hatch. In fact it is installed that way, lowered through the hatch above. That is why that hatch is so large.
Thank you! We did realise this after we edited and uploaded the review so I added that information in the description.
I’ve actually watched the engines go in. Drips in perfectly through the hatch.
The Vision 444 has been on our short list for a couple years. I never noticed the visibly issues from the helm. I've been on three of their hulls and thought visibility was great. I am 4" or so taller than Nick but my wife is the same height as Terysa. I'll have to get my wife's opinion at the next Annapolis show.
Visibility while under sail looks great- just when manoeuvring in close quarters, you'd need to be aware of the blind spots.
My wife is 5’1 and can see well enough over the helm to navigate safely.
There is a little step that pops out at the helm so that you can be raised to see the corners of the boat. That is why the helm bimini is so tall.
The engine in this boat is a Yanmar 3JH40 (40hp), but the standard engine is the Nanni N4.38 (38 HP). Both are paired with SD60 sail drives.
thanks!
For the workshop, many wouldn’t be looking for a place to sit and work. In fact, most workshops I have been in (designed for wood and/or metal/ there wasn’t seating at the bench(es).
Yeah, there's definitely a few different iterations of workshops out there.
I really like this boat lots of room. I really like the lay out. The last bedroom i would make my master i think.
Thanks for sharing this beautiful boat !
The irony of poor visibility on a Vision branded yacht...
I’ve done two passages on Visions and found the visibility to be excellent compared to other similarly sized catamarans - the key is the flip down footrest at the helm. Standing on that allows excellent visibility for 3 of the 4 corners of the boat. The 4th is pretty similar to others I’ve sailed - you just look down (full disclaimer, we are hull #15 and next to launch).
As a Vision owner that has sailed about 7000nm. I find no problem with Visibility from the helm. Spin to the side and the visibility of the stern is great. Step on the helm seat foot rest and see perfectly over both corners of the bow. If I can dock the Vision than anyone can.
Compared to the helm visibility of the Seawind its excellent. Nothing worse than trying to see through the boat and look through a window especially at night or when it's wet out.
Nice review. Thank you for your comments.
It is my belief that a contest should be started for fans of RR2 that people count how many times Nick uses the word "again" in a years worth of videos and some form of prize be awarded. If Nick were required to drop a dollar in a jar for Each "again". The prize could be substantial.❤
And I edit out as many 'agains' as I reasonably can, so you can only imagine the total number...!
So liked this review of the Vision 444. Great job and liked the comparison to RR2.
The boat tour channel.
You guys really are super at this, manufacturers would be well advised to partner with you.
I wonder if they have a camera system to see all 4 corners from any helm/nav station?
I think the boat builders will definitely be able to accommodate cameras etc into their designs. They're open minded dudes and want to solve issues. 😊
I love the easy access on-boarding. I noted some of the newer poweboats meant for weekend jaunts have fold-down bulwarks to expand the deck footprint while at anchor. I think if the cockpit bulwark folded down entirely, as opposed to the flap, it would give better access. I don’t want to discount this excellent feature of this boat, but noting for future models.
Also, I think that raised boom is significantly undercutting the sail area. The mainsail is your main engine, the diesel Yanmar that can’t easily be removed for service is just the kicker. Unless we like motor-sailing and adding hours to the engine unnecessarily, this seems short-sighted. I would rather see a smooth cabin top with excellent solar, an electric motor for a kicker, and as big a mainsail as I can get…almost to the point where the mast could move further forward, expand the cabin and cockpit, and use furlers and side decks for jib and genoa work. Most of your foresail is jib and genoa anyway, and the bowsprit is carrying the furlers, especially if this boat is geared to mobility, then electrified furlers will be installed anyway.
Yes, you can get a person with a wheelchair onto this boat. As someone who studies accessibility though, I would imagine living on board for a wheelchair-bound person would be very hard. They could sleep in the Saloon but how would they get down to any of the heads without being carried? I realize that a lot of people who use wheelchairs can walk short distances, but this is a boat floating and moving through the water. I am not sure if someone who uses a wheelchair can walk would they be strong enough and/or stable enough to do stairs that are moving with the ocean. Obviously, the width of the hull is wider for wheelchairs, but I still don’t see how they would be getting up and down, unless you guys just didn’t show a lift, or the lift was removed at some point?
Looking at the side entry fold-down gate to get on the boat. It looks a bit wimpy to be holding the weight of a whole person and a wheelchair. Also, the latches to keep it closed were sticking up, which would make getting any wheelchair bigger than that of a small child almost impossible as the latches would be in the way of the wheels.
The more I think about it, the more this boat would only be accessible for a small child who uses a wheelchair. That would mean no lifts to access the hulls. It would also explain why the stateroom on the port side looked more like an owner’s suite (like on RR2), and the starboard side although styled as an owner’s hull, looks more like a guest or wheelchair-bound child’s hull.
The concept of a wheelchair-accessible catamaran is cool. This shows that it could be done, but this one is only partially accessible to an adult. To make it accessible for an adult things like lifts on the stairs, and possibly some countertops that are lower for the person in the wheelchair to make the kitchen workable for them. That helm would absolutely not be accessible to someone who uses a wheelchair. I also do not see how the bathrooms are accessible. I guess there was in one of the heads a place to sit down and shower. Again, could a full-size adult wheelchair fit into the bathroom.
In case you are wondering, my nephew was an amputee and used wheelchairs often due to problems with his prosthesis at times. He and his wife had a special house built to accommodate his wheelchairs and crutches.
It's possible that hull 1 (which was made for a wheelchair user) had further modifications that weren't baked in to future hulls like this one. Thanks for your thoughts!
Search out Nomatic Rose. Hull #1. You will find that it is completely built to the owners needs and accessibility. It has very intriguing features.
The owner with the wheelchair keeps one in the owner hull and one on deck. He can lower himself down by the grab bars sitting on the steps as he goes (his has slightly larger steps I believe).
Love the inwards-facing window in workshop, presumably one on the other side too. 12:02 is that floor hatch on backwards? :P
I love your channel and the reviews. Cracks me up when you talk about all that great headroom though. Hubby is 6'4" and would be hard pressed to stand up straight on board. 😅
Amazing
Put a stool in that forward starboard "storage" area and bingo, workshop. Love this boat, but i thought I read head height was 6'2". As a 6'3" guy, that is a no-go.
Nice review of a nice boat. A couple of points- The advertised lightship displacement of 9 tons seems like a stretch. I have concerns on how Vision (and Balance as well) are using space in the far forward sections of the bows for workshops/lavs seemingly at the expense of a proper crashbox. Maybe not an issue, but I like the thought of a proper watertight bulkhead/crashbox in the bow. Cheers
The Invisible strength in the 444 is the full watertight compartmentalisation between the floor and hull that adds both strength, safety and peace-of-mind in comparison to most other vessels of similar construction. Also their Vinyl Ester Resin build is a high quality construction choice.
The boat is equipped with forward crash boxes in the bow.
The Vision 444 has two crash sections at the bow: the leading edge is built of solid glass and behind it you have a crash box that is longer below the water line and shorter above the water line (that is why you have a seat in the forward port shower and you can also notice it in the front part of the workshop).
@@federicorio Thanks, I'll take a closer look. At first glance it appeared the workshop carried forward to almost the very front of the bow and had a plastic looking access door there.
to anwser you question the engine gets removed by the hatch above the bed
My wife and I jumped into the Uber you brought to the award show in Annapolis and shook hands with you. (We were checking out and heading to Washington, DC.) We were really looking forward to your thoughts on this boat. What did you think of the steering system, and other safety at sea items? I really wanted to see your model of Seawind at the show, to compare to Balance 442, the Vision 444, and the TAO (older Balance design). You are still our favourite channel. So happy you are out cruising again.
This type of boat always raises the question, how do you turn a block of flats into a yacht? Putting this thing into a pen would be a nightmare. Sailing at night in a blow would be a nightmare. Not being able to see corners or ffs the water would be a nightmare. And people are waiting till 26 to get one?? Go for it.
Jerry Garcia would approve of this boat and your review!
Great insight on the Vision's helm position and Nav station position. Not crazy about the blind spots but there is hopefully always a work around solution.
Always a workaround. Our boat has blind spots too- you just need to be aware of them and get used to them.
There’s a foot rest that flips down - standing on that provides superior visibility (at least for those of us that are height challenged… I’m 5’8”).
The Nav station is one of the deciding factors in buying this boat. Many cold dark nights sitting in the dark looking through those windows. Though my seat is deeper and has a nice backrest to make it comfortable.
The helm has plenty of visibility if only Nick had flipped down the big foot rest. Which is more of a big, high platform to stand on than a foot rest.
When will we see more videos on Ruby Rose 2?
In two weeks. Next week we're reviewing the HH66, then after that it's back to the boat
Air draft great for ICW, but with the bridge being that height, boom also above ,would that make her reefing in heavy winds more often / 4 corners would not make it easy docking. Thank you.
They offer a furling boom option that has been very successful.
@2:30 If Nick can't see well, I have no hope I'm shorter than Terysa.
@13:13 I don't love all the tools and spares being stored in the bow, not really where you want weight in a catamaran
I'm 5'3" and on Hull #4, Water Wings. My husband is 5'9". I stand on the foot step when I really have to see forward in close quarters, but 90% of time sailing and anchorages no problem! have had little issue. If I was alone on aboard it would be a problem docking and such, but with a communactive partner, we have had no issues in 2 years of sailing manuveraing even in tight spaces.
We were very happy with what we saw in the Vision 444. One of our crew is mobility challenged. The fit and finish was very good. From the helm the taller crew had no issues seeing forward. Our shorter (nick sized) couldn’t see anything. Those winches are too tall to use effectively if you ever try to use them with a handle. The line handlers on the deck have a lot of drag. The price is still out of line for value. We could likely add the accessibility options to a few other brands for less money (though that’s guessing).
Great feedback, thank you!
@@sailingrubyrosewe’ve talked to them and are considering chartering one in the Bahamas
Another great review ❤
I'm not walking thou my shower area, to get to my work shop... that's disappointing.
👍
I don't understand with limited visibility they don't add cameras to the mast looking down so you can see the perimeter just to increase visibility that way. They already have the electronics. It seems they are really turning the boats into homes on water rather than boats you can live on.
That's a great idea and one we've explored, but it was very expensive. Some boats such as the Amel 60 do have mast cameras as standard which is amazing.
Big vice, surely you could achieve everything thing on a vice half the size and half the weight.
Come on guys, I repeat my comment from last week. Will you get on with the sailing. I’ve been watching you rabbit on about boats for the past 2 years, enough! In your Christmas vid you told us of all the sailing you have been doing so how about showing us.
There needs to be a bit of a lead-time for CZcamsrs to bring out a video reliably once a week (or whatever) to hedge against computers failing, poor weather, etc. Usually this is over 6 months. They used up all this buffer during covid so I'm sure they're editing the sailing you want to see right now, and these videos are to placate the algorithm as much as anything else.
Not sure why you make such a deal of the helm visibility - anything is an improvement on the Seawind boats 🤣
However in regards the disability design brief - i would like to see the helm station with wheel chair access and maybe a spiral sloped floor from the stern with a lowered coach roof in front of the helm would be a cool and unique aspect that would allow those with disabilities the capability and experience opportunity to sail the boat. Also how about a saloon/deck level disability toilet? - maybe opposite the helm station - or where the nav station is.
His helm is further aft and outboard. Sails all the tine and loves it!
@@erinsailsawaySeawinds helms require you to look through the boat and then the windows to see forward.
He had dual helms more aft.
💐🙏🦅👍😎🇺🇸
That’s a starboard helm not a port helm
✔️
If docking port side nightmare. Nice boat but small main sail. Take your boat any day. Not that you would give it.HAHAHA.
The helm looks very poor for shorter people, docking short handed will be hard (without cameras). The saloon also doesn't have the best visibility, fore and aft. 10 years ago maybe, but catamarans have improved significantly, both in ergonomics and performance in the last decade. For over a million dollars, extras and taxes, there are a lot of choices, can't see any compelling reason to even shortlist this boat.
My wife sails the boat fine at 5’1. No problem sailing short handed. Just the two us have sailed into a boat lift with only inches to spare on the sides. No problem at all.
@@SireneBleue How can she see the stem and stern quarters from the helm? She's a lot shorter than Nick, who clearly couldn't see any corners of the boat from the helm. Of course cameras can help, but being able to see exactly where you are going (and what you need to avoid) with the naked eye helps with confidence.
Nick missed a very important part of the helm seat. There is a large platform that looks like a foot rest. It kicks out to stand on. It’s easy move it up and down while sailing. Her actual problem is when sitting on the seat. So we had a extra seat pad made that boosts her up. The seat height is perfect for me at 5’10.
Vision makes the seat in house. I could have had it them make the seat a few inches higher for her if I had thought about it.
The problem that Nick didn’t pay much attention to is that the edge of the seat gets wet. To solve the problem. I had a new seat cover out of water resistant vinyl. Any water just wipes off now.
@@SireneBleue Great information, Nick seems to have missed a small, but crucially important, bit.
@@LeoSavantt you can see the sterns by looking below the the coach roof (through the cockpit).
I don't like the lack of visibility.
At that price point, why would you not just buy the 1370.
Do not like to have the engines inside the living space of the hulls! Exhaust leaks, water leeaks and fumes makes it an unwanted location for a fossile fuel enigine. I have had two cats one like the 442 and one with the engines aft of the living area, which I have found to be the best location. The enignes are easy to access, a one band show to lift out and in, and no fumes inside the living area.
The aft areas of modern cats in my opinion is way to short from the back end to the cockpit area, which obviously is to create better living space, but I for one do not like that! The boats do not behave as good in a seaway and they look too stocky I think.
Just my two cents worth.
thanks for your input!
The engine compartments do have a seal and I have never had any fumes or problems in the hulls. For maintenance they are amazing and I’m definitely protected from the elements without anything falling overboard during service.
This wasn't a very good review. So many great things about this boat that you skipped or misspoke about.
Such as? Would love to hear your thoughts
This cat does not meet the needs of a person that is truly wheelchair bound, such as spinal cord injury or deseases such as MS, MD, or just very aged. JUst being mobility chalenged as many people are they would have Great difficulty participating in the actual sailing.
The current iteration of the boat was inspired by the very first hull, which had many additional modifications made beyond what you see today.
If you're bringing an extra chromosome on board, there's only so much a shipwright can do.
Can you tell by your paucity of views that your reviews are just not grabbing the public? Just saying...
?