Proper Hammer Technique: Blacksmith Hammering Techniques
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2017
- This video on proper hammer technique will cover what size of hammer you need for forging, what length of handle, and where to hold it. Blacksmith hammer techniques seems to vary from person to person. So what is best?
We will discuss forging posture, stance at the anvil, as well as some of the basic hand hammering techniques used to move metal quickly and efficiently. If you are looking for info for blacksmithing for beginners, this is a great starting point to learn how to forge without injuring yourself.
Check out my downloadable pdfs at www.blacksmithpdfs.com .
If you'd like to visit my youtube homepage, you can do so at / christcenteredironworks . - Jak na to + styl
As a beginner who’s only had a rough home forge up for about a week, this video is an important one, keep up the good stuff and I’ll just keep learning
Hi Roy, I heard you say carpel tunnel my ears pricked up. I got mine from 10 years hauling brick and mud as a mason assistant. It is bad enough that a pencil laying in my palm can numb my hand. Heck typing this is numbing my fingers. But I love blacksmithing and I wont roll over and quit. never have and never will. Here is what i did to my handles to increase the time I can hold them. I drilled a 1/4 inch hole near the bottom of the handle and made 3 or 4 wraps of 1/4 inch round mild tightly around the handle. This provides enough backstop that I can actually use less energy holding the hammer and put more energy into maintaining my form. My hands don’t numb because I’m not squeezing the handle. As a kid I would do this to any hammer I would " find" in dad's garage and thought it was great because it gave me way more zombie killing swing. Little did I know it wasn’t zombies but stretched tendons that I would be fighting later in life.
Thank you for caring and posting your videos. I have not even experienced the first swing of a hammer yet. I’m still watching videos and setting up my basic forging equipment. I hope to develop good safe form and techniques from the beginning! Thank you!!
Hello Roy and Jessica, on hammers I totally agree with you, my job was a joiner and started at 15 years old, now 74, swinging all shorts of hammers, warrington, claw, club and various sledge hammers. I have had both wrists operation "carpal tunnel " and my grip is now not very good. But you can't chock a hammer. Excellent videos Roy please keep them coming, best wishes Geoff Lewis, Wales, UK. 🏴🏴🏴
Great video! You just saved me hours of forging and sore arms. I am new to blacksmithing and have watched lots of different videos on the subject. After about 6 months of doing it wrong now I know what it feels like to do it right. It actually made the hammering enjoyable. I was trying to brute force things way too much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. God bless!!
Another amazing video man. Talk away! That’s the only real way self taught people can learn about a topic more in-depth!
Need to do more videos like this I'm a begginer with out even the correct tools. So please keep up these tutorials. I'm stopping everything til I have the correct tools.
Thank you for the great, and thank you for being a part of the channel! Keep at it and you will get there :-) God bless
@@ChristCenteredIronworks you to bless you for the knowledge.
I only hold the handle near the head when I am finishing something and need really really light hits that are more of taps than anything. But the info in this video was great. Cheers
When I was in college there was an older guy who constantly joined the blacksmithing club, he gave me some tips on hammering that almost immediately relieved the strain on my wrist and hand. Keeping everything loose, and distributing the motion across all of the joints without trying to use any single joint excessively makes a huge difference(pretty much what you showed). He did and hopefully still does great work that I am a long way from matching, I wish I could still remember his name to give proper credit.
I appreciate your candor and approach to discussing these topics.
Dig it already brother, seems all my work life has led to this craft, I can’t wait to truly start
Great video thank so much for explaing everthing very helpfull. Im 27 and newbie when it come to blacksmithing i started following you im subscribed
Needed to hear all of this. Thank you
saw the entire video and loved it! just one thing, to protect yourself a little bit more, use earmuffs or some ear protection, I know a low of deaf blacksmiths that never used ear protection, and some other machinery worker's that can't hear almost anything
Rant on dude. Thank you for valuing our health.
Lol, glad you liked it!
Thanks Roy it's always a good idea to revisit the basics
The relaxed grip and proper handle length and geometry are the two most important things, hands down, IMHO. (leaving aside more intuitive things like anvil height and weight, your stance, a firm, level floor with plenty of traction to stand on, etc.). As Friis Forge said, the relaxed grip not only requires less of your hand and wrist, it allows the shock to propel the hammer, lifting it part of the way back up for you. And once it's moving in an upward direction it only takes a bit of effort to raise it the rest of the way. This is a win/win or lose/lose situation, because if you don't use that rebound force (because you're gripping too tight), then it goes right up your arm as a shock wave. As Hofi says, just "guide" the hammer down (as opposed to control) and grip with the fingers, not palm. One thing to note is that you have slightly less time to pull back when swinging this way, if a rare butterfly lands on your anvil, or some idiot gets in the way or something.
As for handle geometry and length, if your handle is too long, or your head too heavy (relative to the type of strike you're doing) then you will have to hold on tighter than necessary. It is much better economy to swing a lighter hammer hard than a heavy hammer weakly.
So match your hammer to your task, make it a hammer you can really swing, but still heavy enough to get the job done, and don't have a handle too short or too long. 8" is probably the minimum handle length necessary for the vast majority of smithing, with 10" being more common.
Too long a handle, and although you can get away with using a lighter hammer, your accuracy decreases and the extra-long lever also works against you when lifting the hammer to strike again.
Too short a handle, as you point out, your swing doesn't do much, your hand catches fire, and then your brand spankin' new striker puts it out with a sledge (probably with a handle that's too long and too rounded...)
Because too rounded a handle makes using a lighter grip more difficult - It's just not enough traction in the hand. Slightly rectangular is better for the same reason that oval is better than round. (But too sharp of corners will give you callouses, of course.) For the same reason, there should be a taper (in both directions) from the end of the handle to the head. That way when you swing the hammer it doesn't want to slide out of your hand (and thus you don't have to grip as hard).
I concur
Thanks for sharing your methods and wisdom...
God bless!
Thank you for the lesson it explains a lot 😊👍 completely inspired
LOL ! I agree 100%
Funny how its popular to feel need to reinvent a technique. Combined with the holding of a hammer twice the required size, very near the head! A very popular smith is doing that and folks feel that must be proper technique.
Thanks for taking the time to share your rant and reinforcing what is common knowledge.
Hi mate, I enjoy your opinions and advice, it is honest, refreshing and lacking hype. I might not agree with everything you say but respect your guts in putting in the time and effort to provide these videos and tooling plans. As you say it's not about working harder but working smarter and getting a quality result at the end without busting yourself or your tools. Cheers from Tasmania
I am a beginner Blacksmith and I would like to say I really like your videos and appreciate the knowledge that you share. Thank You!
for someone just getting started, I really appreciate the detail you went into explaining some of the very fundamental techniques for smithing...
See, as a carpenter who is just getting into smithing, it is weird for anyone to tell me to choke up on a hammer. And Im a nail driving carpenter, doing wall forms and rough framing...
Jacob Page
Long time ago, almost 45 years , when I was a second year apprentice I had a tradesman take my hammer and cut half off the handle because he claimed I never used that bit so did not need it! From that day onwards I never again choked a hammer, until I started forging! That changes everything !
New sub here!!! Extremely detailed information. Very informative. I am looking to get into smithing soon. I finally feel I got the right guidance! God bless you sir. Looking forward to watching more of your videos.
Thanks for posting this, I appreciated your opinion and the why's behind them.
Hi Mathew, I'm more than happy to share what I've learned with others, and I appreciate the fact you enjoy knowing the why's behind the technique.
Hey man thanks for the advise! Im a pretty new blacksmith trying to teach myself and have been looking for good ways to draw out a thick peice of round stock.... Very helpful!
Thank you for the information… 👍🏻👍🏻
great vid and very valid points most of all I like when you said "in my opinion" that shows me that you are not full of yourself and really want to try and give everyone the best information you can thanks for that
+Johnathan Crook Thank you for taking the time to comment and watch this video!! I know it was a long one and I may of ranted a little bit. But I do believe that smiths need to put this my hammer is bigger than yours thing behind us as it is a completely pointless to do things just one way and hurt our bodies in the process. This discussion will go on and on for probably a millennium lol. Thank you for your kind words and encouragement and taking the time to listen to my point of view. God bless you and happy forging!
Hey, just a note about the tendonitis in the wrist. I thought for the longest time that my wrist tendonitis/carpal tunnel was from working with my wrist too much, but turns out it was entirely due to my sleeping position. I used to sleep with my wrists tucked up under my head as a side sleeper. Changing this completely got rid of the pain in my wrist.
You sure just gained a new subscriber. Thank you for this video you answered a whole lot of questions I had.
+Tony Horvath that is awesome to hear I'm glad to have you as a subscriber :-)
Thanks for your tip!
New Smith here , just wanted to say thanks for your quality content. Between you and a few others out there- big dog, joey, black bear and there is a guy out there that Smith's in the ways of the Vikings all low tech no power tools.
Anyway,very informative thank you!!!
Keep watching mate, those guys you mentioned and lots more have libraries of knowledge to share and all of them are more than willing to pass it on to keep the craft alive!
Exceptional video full of info for anyone who swings a hammer. Id say if you value your extremities than this is a great video for you. Thanks for sharing this with us, for the people that are new or have been doing this for a while give it a shot you have nothing to lose accept your sore arm. Although I am pretty confident sometimes a different hand hold may be nessasary but only for perhaps short times. If you still feel fatigued your hammer is probably too heavy.As always Sincerely, Martin at M/S Blacksmithing and Blades
Shan Moldovan thank you for all the great commentary as usual! I am glad you enjoyed the video and as I go along I hope to keep making more and more informative videos!
God bless you
I know the video is a bit older at this point, but it's still holds info. I'm 40 years old and just started smithing a couple weeks ago. I've got a roughly 2-1/4lbs hammering because I don't want to wear myself out to quickly and I can learn the technique for more time per day. And I did work in construction for years swing anything from a 12 once finish hammer up to a 16lbs sledge.
I am about to begin getting into smithing as a hobby, and I appreciate the information. I did find it very valuable, thank you, sincerely thanks. I was always planning on leaving a comment, and I was going to begin by making a criticism of holy mackerel "I thought this was a tutorial on hammering not bitching""but then I started thinking to myself you mentioned that you've been doing this for 10 years. And I can imagine across that span, you must have seen all kinds of horror stories. And I'm already thinking that if I was in your place I may have made a 15-minute video instead of a 10-minute video on just ranting about it. So I guess I don't blame you
You are right it took me a long time to lurn this
Good info for me as a beginner. Can you do a video explaining and showing coldshuts. I saw the mark but do not understand the process of avoiding them. Or how to correct one.
Roy, Thanks again so much....I owe you a lot of thanks...when you say "Christ Centered" you truly are. I can elaborate after watching. Thanks , DocChuck
Charles Wright thank you sir for the wonderful comment I am blessed to have a great bunch of guys and gals taking there time to watch these videos. I appreciate all your support!
God bless you
Awesome video, I've been smithing for a little over 2 years now with a 2lb Mac tools antivibe flat/square faced cross peen. Using this method I've found that I can move the same amount of material as say a 4lber that's choked up on. Appreciate the health tips, but I was a 13b artilleryman in the Army, so from day 1 I've used industrial grade ear muffs to mitigate any hearing loss already suffered lol. Thanks again!
Thank you
I've been forging for almost a year now and yesterday I was working on some bolt jaw tongs using 20mm rebar (close to 1 inch) when I had finished for the day the joints of my fingers felt stiff and achey, and waking up this morning they feel the same, after watching this video I think I was holding the hammer too close to the head and gripping too tightly in order to confidently hit the bar as hard as I could. a lot of my family were craftmen of sorts and now most of them have arthritis, carpel tunnel etc. it is something I am very concerned about, this video has given me a better understanding of the do's and dont's and I appreciate that, I also heard that its recommended you hold the hammer with your thumb and forefinger and let it float and bounce off the material, can you still get strong hits with this method?
Thank you bro. very useful tips
Bassam Siblini your welcome!
Appreciate the video, I'm trying to make sure I do this right. I love smithing and would like to do it the rest of my life. Gotta rant to fully explain, do it man, I will always appreciate the advice from those in the business longer.
very informative
While I agree with what you say about "How you feel about yourself" and doing comparisons..
I've been a smith for over 30 years.. Your point about old smiths not being able to swing a hammer or having wrist, elbow or shoulder problems.. They worked to make money in a time when work was a production run, not a fun, relaxing day at the forge.. The more they produced the more they made.. It was a life style vs a retirement/fun/recreation activity to do.. Production blacksmithing is labor intensive...
Any activity you do will create wear and tear on your body.. It's part of the aging process...
And this is where I go in a different direction.. Work smarter.. Not harder.. With this said, there is a level of hardness than can not be removed from blacksmithing when forging with a hammer at the anvil.. Each time you swing the hammer, it is wearing on you.. 4lbs, 2lbs, 2oz.. Each swing is a wearing of/out.. Each breath or heart beat is the same.. We only have a finite number of what evers..
Okay.. Moving metal efficiently and effectively is the number 1 aspect of smithing.. Any action that is not moving metal is less effective.. Even banging on the anvil without metal in between it can be looked at as less efficient.. It give a time frame to look and study the metal, but you are still swinging the hammer, and this swing can be better used use hitting the metal.. If you swing 200 times and 20 or 30 of these are on an empty anvil.. Thats a lot of arm movement..
Over the last 30+ years I have eliminated as much as possible the skills, or actions done earlier that were not effective and this paring away, leads to being more efficient and a better metal mover with the hands..
While I agree for new smiths the fact that taking more heats is a good one.. Ideally you want to take the least amount of heats for a given product for forging.. Mild steels will still suffer from being heated to many times.. The medium/ or high carbon steel suffer badly from this with heat soak and grain enlargment... A36 will stress crack more easily if heated to much or to many times.. ..
1 heat is better than 2, or 3 or 7.. But, if it takes you 7 this time, it might only take you 4 next time.. and eventually it won't take many at all..
While the metal is easier to move at the higher temperature, if you don't use that higher temperature to it full advantage, it will mean you are spending all your time heating metal vs forging it to shape..
Hammer size is key.. Start with a hammer you can swing very, very comfortably and move up a size after a year or so.. This moving up is for someone working a few days a week at the anvil.. If you work 5 days a week at the anvil you might be able to move up in size more quickly but do it with an eye on safety..
Then comes in the hammer size to metal size.. There is a ratio of how effective the hammer is actually reaching to the center of the bar, thus forging the bars cross section vs just the surface layers which can lead to fish mouths...
I am including a video on forging a taper in 1.125 medium carbon steel in 2 heats.. This was not forged aggressively.. It was just forged at a decent pace using techniques of increased hammer pressure..
And a video on forging tapers in 5/8" Sq in 1 heat... Please understand it's not the fact of doing in 1 heat that is most important.. It's the ease at which this is accomplished.. 1 heat, 2 heats, 3 heats.. It's all good, but effective use of the hammer and anvil to move the metal as quickly as possible is the key.. Again moving the metal effectively and efficiently..
If you want to delete the post be my guest as I don't mean to impede you post, you asked for feedback, and I don't know how to explain it without a bunch of words.. This makes it that much simpler..
1.125 taper: czcams.com/video/iczH58taSy0/video.html
4 different methods of tapering.. (IE moving metal): czcams.com/video/EsJA43sDvJ4/video.html
Please do delete this if you feel it's gone over some etiquette. And please understand I am not promoting the channel on yours and feel iffy with posting to your channel or answering the question or request...
I thank you!
hey mate, i had my first blacksmithing session earlier in the month and before watching this i found i was continuously hitting with the heel of the hammer, oddly the anvil was about 2 inches short of knuckle for me (not my place) any ideas what im doing wrong if its a common issue?
Theres always going to be idiots misinforming beginners. I appreciate your approach and mindset, the rage is understandable. Rant on and please keep the content coming
I'm a new subscriber to your channel Roy! I've been addicted to CZcams blacksmithing channels since 2014 and have just now discovered your work. I started smithing in autumn of 2014 but I certainly can't say I've been smithing for 3yrs - I'm a part timer with a baby 80 pound anvil. One bit of information I believe would've been valuable in this video would've been to address the importance of anvil height...something I had wrong for my first several months...but, as I'm new to your channel, perhaps you've already addressed this subject in another video. I believe you have an excellent channel here and I sincerely wish you continued success! May the Lord bless you and keep you Roy!
+Vernon James thank you for the great comment! I do not believe I have went over the value of good Anvil height in this video. So thank you for pointing that out yes and Ville height is very important as you've mentioned you have already found out. If I get the chance I may do another video talking about this subject. So glad to have you as a subscriber to the channel God bless you and all you do this week
Thank you for the video! I was using too heavy of a hammer and choking up. i have enough problems with my joints! I'm switching to a 2 pounder!
I switched to the 2 pound hammer and I'm surprised to admit that I get more work done in the same amount of time, have less body aches, and higher quality work. I'm sold! Thanks again!
Never stop ranting ; it demonstrates that you care. If you label it that way from the beginning it is a good way of teaching. thx
I tried my hand at making tongs from 5/8ths today and ended up with a cold shunt right above the boss from the set down. I thought it would be fine, until two hours further into the project I went to bend the jaws into place and it snapped right at the cold shunt. It’s such a bad feeling
Thanks for the video. I am new at smithing but not new to using a hammer, yet found it difficult to maintain hammer control. It seems the more force I try to strike with, the less control I have. Your advice on not trying to move all the material quickly means that I can use more, less-forceful hammer blows and have better hammer control producing a cleaner result. Thanks and God bless. Darlington, SC
Glad I could help :-)
Interesting and informative video. I am relatively new to blacksmithing, and plan to do it as a hobby since I am a retired lawyer by trade. I have had bilateral carpal tunnel surgery (from typing a lot of rough draft legal briefs), and thus am assembling a Hardy Hammer to help with the resultant weak hands after surgery. I can control the hammer (still enjoy wood working), but cannot swing a hammer for a sustained amount of time. Thus the reason for the Hardy Hammer build. I am also building your Hardy hammer top tools to help reduce shock to my hands and wrists. Question: What should my correct anvil position be when using the Hardy Hammer? Still at about a 45 degree position, or some other position> Thanks.
I have been forging for about two years now I broke my hammer wrist about a year ago but it’s starting to bother me ever since I got a new hammer with actual rebound I usually use a 2.2lb hammer I made myself I wondering I’m going to try this technique next time I’m at the forge thanks for the great video even tho it’s an old one
I am recently returning to smithing as a physical wreck after a gap of well over 50 years. My back is destroyed, I have regular bouts of tendonitis, and my hammer hand has carpal tunnel, trigger finger and white finger, all collected during a career coal mining. I hold the hammer at about 2/3rds from the head and have found two other things that help me avoid the white knuckle grip. Firstly, I thin my handles way more than most folks would be used to and secondly I use octagonal section handles with broad flat sides. These things afford me a greater feeling of control and accuracy while still allowing a fairly loose grip.
The key thing for me is to accept when my arm [and the rest of me] has had enough for the day and stop rather than forge on. Not an easy decision when metal is hot, things are going well and the job is nearly done. :
Great Informationen 😃 I think now I know why I always get blisters 😃 I'll adjust my hammer grip and stand in front of the anvil. I think this type of Video can be so long. Because it gives a very in depth look over it and a lot of information 👍👍 Keep up the great work.
I always work on the edge of the anvil and never got cold shuts I think it's just rounded enough.
The anvil I use is probably 200-250 years old😃😃
Not only Wood Thank you for taking the time to watch! I know it is a long video I have a knack for that I guess lol. hope it will help you out in the long run. God bless you and Thank you for being a great subscriber!
May I ask you what you think is the limit in diameter for a piece of metal to be one-hand hammered?
Since you spent more than 10 minutes on handles. The most efficient way to learn to control a hammer while holding it properly is to drive a crap load of nails with it. Before I started smithing I was proficient with an 18 ounce claw hammer. But when I started smithing, my accuracy with a heavier hammer wasn't very good. So I bought a box of cheap nails grabbed an old fence post from the backyard and drove every single nail into that post with my largest hammer (4lb short handled sledge). Now, every blow with the hammer is EXACTLY where I intend it to land and I feel perfectly comfortable gripping my hammers about 1/2 inch above the foot of the handle.
Came for the hammer technique, stayed for the scolding
I'm glad for both ;-)
Haha same
The owner of the construction company i worked for used to cut the handles off our hammers if he ever saw us choke up on the handle lol
5yr forging. I agree with you on most counts, but efficiency saves money and time. I need to get the most done in the quickest amount of time possible heat by heat.
I install siding, it is all hand nailed, the Stanley anti vibe hammers are fantastic at reducing the vibrations, you should buy a couple, they dont cost much, i just checked a 2lb crosspein is 17 bucks
+ThisFish awesome I will have to give them a try thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
I have been driving nails since I was 9 and now I’m 51 and I will agree with you nice information
I remember seeing a video of this old Finnish knife maker, where he did something more like a pushing motion when doing planishing work on the flat surfaces of the blades. Really interesting. How does that even work? Whenever I try to forge at those heats with that level of accuracy requirements I just get all kinds of hammer marks.
P.S. I only focus on working fast so I use less gas lol. Stuff is expensive! $20 for 8 hours of forging!
Do you have a take on the hofi technique?/ hammer
As a beginner I really appreciate this video. I dont have the experience to comment on what is right or wrong with hammer technique, but I do have a thought on physics that perhaps a more experienced person could take in a productive direction.
When you talk about impact and long term joint damage, it got me wondering about center of percussion. Think about how baseball bats have a "sweet spot" that minimizes returned shock. I wonder if there IS in fact an exact hammer balance, handle length and grip point that is optimal from a shock standpoint. Perhaps a hammer could be designed to minimize this type of joint damage.
It's all good. Being a farrier before blacksmithing I think I learnt good hammer control.
Had my first bladsmithing lesson this week. Took me 2 hrs to make a tang for a one handed viking sword. Is that shit? Lol
Extremely late comment and years after the fact, I know. Do I need to worry about decarburization if I am making tools with tool steel, at a yellow heat? Or is that one of those "it depends" questions, where I should drop down to cherry/orange forging when my materials are closer to knife thicknesses? Primarily asking because forging patterned steel by hand is a bear and I think I'd destroy my wrist trying to keep the temperatures lower to preserve carbon.
The radius and shape of the hammer handle has, in my experience, as much to do with where I grip it as weight and control. Hammer handles are generally designed for people with hands larger than mine so I have to make modifications. As sound as your advice is, it can only be effective after ensuring the handle fits the hand of the user.
Thanks for this information Roy. Even though I have been forging knives for a little while on a hunk of RR track I just bought an anvil earlier this year and have been consuming info from lot of different channels. I have wondered about this issue of choking up on a handle and the use of large hammers for a while. I know that from driving nails that you get the job done quicker the further back from the weight that you swing, but it took a while to get accurate at it so I choked up like you are describing. Like in all things like this efficiency was lost and it slowed me down, but once I got better and more confident with my accuracy my grip slid back and my efficiency increased.
I have noticed this over the last few months too. Not wanting to damage my anvil I choked up on my handle, yes efficiency suffered but I didn't damage my anvil face either, now that I have gotten more confident I am finding that I am getting more work done with a lighter hammer even and my elbow thanks me.
Again thanks for this info Roy, as I am considered by some as an older gent, I do not have the luxury of injuring myself through ignorance or plain stupidity. I don't heal as quick as I used to so it is always in the forefront of my mind of safety first.
That was good Roy, thank. Just a quick question saw a vid the other day about the placement of the anvil, should the horn be on the right side or left. I've always had mine on the left, and I'm right handed.?
+Lenblacksmith I did an entire video on this called Anvil orientation that explains this in-depth :-) I'm glad you enjoyed the video God bless
Thanks mate, will check it out. God bless.
Weight a second im only 36? Are you calling me old lol. I started learning this art this year. I started with a 5lb hammer. Quickly learned that i can do as much work with a 3 or 3.5 lb hammer and i dont get as tired. I will say that using that heavy hammer for the time i did built up some much needed strength and endurance in my arms.
This is the 5th video i have watch of yours (which your videos are great by the way) and you mentioned something about bad comments EVERY time. People are going to have negative feedback on every CZcams video, no matter what you are doing. Please look past these comments or use them as a way to improve your videos. Your subscribers don't care about what people don't like about your videos, we are gonna follow you anyways. It's very frustrating to be new to a hobby, find a great channel for beginners, and have to hear complaining more than teaching :) Just do your thing man! Leave the haters in the comments and out of the videos.
I tend to move my hand up and down the handle depending on how much force I am actually trying to apply. My favorite hammer head has a handle that's too short. My main hammers are also just slightly to heavy. I can swing them all day no problem, but If I put in a long day at the forge for 2 or 3 days in a row, I can feel it in my wrist. I would argue that there is some value in doing things in one heat. Especially when you are producing a lot of the same thing. That value is in efficiency. I agree with the stuff you said, but I think it's a bit too far to say there is NO value in doing something in one heat. Great info. Define Your Legacy!
Warped Legacy Thanks for the input. what im pointing out to all of the new guys out there is. forging something in one heat is not a measure of how good you are at the craft. efficiency ends when the metal falls below a bright orange in temperature. you are essentially hitting cold steel at that point. so working down into that cold of a heat is in fact a complete waste of time. get the metal hot and keep it there until the forging process is done. you will have better wrists and quality of work at the end of the day. keep up the great work on your channel. the videos you have been coming up with are absolutely great! God bless
Found it 👍
I would suggest investing in a wrist brace
Many years ago I took a blacksmithing course at the Metal Museum in Memphis, TN and the instructor said we needed to be striking at an angle on the edge of the face of the hammer. Needless to say I had the flu during the course and only made it about 3/4s the way through the first day of the to day course. Just in that short time my forearm and hand were so sore it felt like people took bats to them. Every time I struck the stock the hammer rotated in my hand and wrenched my wrist. Not to mention the instructor was an arrogant jerk and really rude most of the course, he was the apprentice, the master wasn't even there. Was that instructor full of it or is that a normal method? I see you and other looking like you are striking flat center face with your hammers.
can you grind cold shuts out or are they still there i enjoy your opinion and the fact you have proof that hitting a hammer close to the handle makes your opinion more a voice to listen to you are building subscribers quickly soon you will get to a point where you cant reply to everyone which is a great place to get to God bless keep safe
grayem pepper Thank you for watching! the cold shuts can be filed out or ground if caught soon enough when they are just starting to appear. given that there is enough metal to be removed.
If left UN checked the grain will turn into a shear plane and won't be fixable. God bless you and thank you for taking the time to comment and watch this video!
p.s I will always try and get back with you and your questions if not one on one it will be in a group message to answer everyone the best I can.
I’ve been teaching my 8 year old son hammer technique with 1/4 round aluminum stock I have laying around it doesn’t need heat and it moves about the same as hot iron ... use making round stock flat then a point then bending it over and straightening it again he is using a 16 oz hammer ... and a old 70 lb anvil set at his comfort working height so he works straight backed shoulders square ... I’ve ruined my back with many years of working bent over my work ! Watch for his growing up boy channel where he is showing kids how to do things outdoors that are interesting like bee keeping and gardening black smithing and fishing hunting and trapping with dad the camera man and supervising director!
.............That's why you have a more rounded radius(ground) on the edge of your Anvil
attention it is not necessary to lengthen the distance too much because it can reduce the precision it must be done according to it force
I fabricate airplane parts so I work with titanium all day and the only thing that bends it is a 15 pound leather mallet with the part heated to 1450 degrees I’m new to do this so what do I do in the situation where it’s almost to heavy
Also it’s leather so dents don’t appear in the part
Hammer control did not cause your cold shut.. It is because you did not feed the stock IN to the anvil. As you forge half on half off rotating 1/4 turn each hit and moving the stock in just a bit it is essential to feed the stock in, this pushes the peaks into the valleys that you created as you forged them 3 hits prior. You were flipping 1/4 back and forth making a two sided taper. This is used commonly for isolating material to be shaped further later, not for drawing an even taper to a point. You forged an off center lump and then made a cold shut by moving that isolated lump back over top the taper.
Choking up and down on the hammer handle is like changing gears on your car, sometimes you want to be in 1st and sometimes you want to be in 5th. It is variable to what you are doing. I typically hold my hammer just back from mid of the handle but I have a nice long handle so I can choke down to increase the force and up to decrease the force depending on what I am doing.
I definitely agree that a relaxed grip is necessary to reduce the shock absorbed by your body. When you don't absorb the shock it helps the hammer bring itself up from the anvil and reduces the amount of energy needed to raise the hammer.
Friis Forge Thanks for the input and hanging out to watch the video to the end I appreciate that. something I will point out in a future video is why I believe that drawing out over the edge of the anvil is a waste of time.. I personally prefer to tool up for drawing out operations and will show that tooling in another video. you can always do what you want but my opinion on the subject of proper hammer from is firm and pretty much proven by the the long list of mentors and teachers that I have studied under. Good luck with all that you do and God bless.
yep, new smiths should know that your anvil corners would need some dressing to draw over the edges without cold shutting...on an anvil that size the edge radius might start at 3/16" near the horn and go to 1/16" near the heel, if a sharp corner is needed it can be across the heel or use a hardy tool...most old anvils come dressed by their previous owners but new ones do not...
Agreed completely Crossed Heart Forge. Love your work, perhaps this summer I could come take a look at your forge and meet you. I'll be up your way sometimes around June 8th. I would love to see the Japanese forge you made in person.
i plan to be at the museum most every friday, stop by and say hi...
Thanks, good information. I have to agree with Friis Forge about adjusting your grip depending on what you are doing as that was the way I was taught. I don't like drawing out over the edge either.
the more you practice the more you gain strength and the more you can lengthen the handle
Do you have a Facebook page? I'm new to blacksmithing and really enjoy your educational videos.
+Tony Horvath yes I do all you have to do is type in Christ Center Forge or Iron Works and I should pop right up :-) I'm so glad to hear you are enjoying the videos God bless
Christ Centered Ironworks. Just fund you thank you so much
I think you take your marteau as you feel it best it is the most important
I wish to validate that your skills are clear and present for "how you work," so to be clear I'm not questioning your modalities overall at all. To further validate, I do not consider myself a "Master Blacksmith" even after 40 years of "on and off" time behind an anvil...Neither am I (as you put it) an "armchair blacksmith" (aka ultracrepidarian)...I do teach a full spectrum of "traditional arts," with many having "hammering techniques" (blacksmithing, stone carving, timber framing, etc) thus working with alloys and materials of various forms...with almost all hammering methods being very similar in approach modality...
Here is a few observation and/or query at this date to see if you still feel the same or have developed a different understanding?
Hammer hand placement is more dependent on individual body ergonomics and experiential personal development than what "seems like" very ridgid instruction of where and how to grip a hammer...Some "choke" and some "stretch" their grip...some have lite and some "power" grips...ALL...to good effect depending on individual physiology...and...!!!...what specifically they are attempting to achieve with their strike of a hammer or related striking implement...Have you softened or changed your perspectives on "grip" and "posture" approaches since making this video?
I also was curious about some comments I heard in this video...
@19:07 you make the comment that..."if you hit cold metal..it don't move."...and at...@20:10 "...at orange, I stop hitting my steel..." I'm wondering, Do you still feel that way?
If the first or second was true at all, there would be a number of traditional arts that simply would not exist...For just to example..." Peening" (as we find in sharpening traditional scythes) and "Cold Forging" (a common practice for high-grade Asian blades and related edged tools)...both of which incurred sticking and working metals for edges formation in steels while in the "cold state" as compared to what you reflected in the video...One being a "work hardening method" and the other a "Harding" and " crystallin" formation approach to finer-edged tools such as fine cutlery...Thanks in advance for your current perspectives...
I liked this video. The long term effects of smithing is something I worry about. Not sure if I am following you 100%. Are you saying that shorted grips lead to more shock in the wrist? I'll watch it again. How about rotation though the wrist? It seems that if I use less rotation in the wrist when I hammer and try not to generate extra force with the wrist. One day I had a lot of cold work to do and it was really hurting my hand so I asked an old smith who I think had been smithing for longer than I have been alive for advice and he showed me a different method. The method was to get a heavy hammer and just hold it loose and let it drop. The pain went away. The method was to not power the hammer hard on the way down but use an extra heavy hammer and let the weight do the work. Have you heard of that method? If you have heard it is bad please let me know. I'm keeping an eye out for why this method is not used by more people or if there is a hidden problem with it that I am not seeing. I also had to do a lot of cold hammering on sheet metal for a project and it was really hurting from vibration so I wrapped the handle in two layers of closed cell foam and duct tape. That helped to. Looking forward to more of your videos.
+No BS Survival Blacksmithing Swords And Armour yes using a shortened grip or choking up on the hammer handle create more kinetic energy through your body. The reason why the heavy hammer with a loosen grip drop method alleviated the pain issues you were having is because you were probably holding the hammer too tightly to begin with. I do not believe in using an excessively heavy Hammer to do any work as though you may be able to drop it upon the workpiece you still have to snatch it back up with the rebound and this will create other issues into the future. I just did another video on this in slow-mo where I used a heavier hammer just look on the channel for Hammer technique in blue lettering and you should find the video just fine. Thank you for all the great questions I hope you're hammering will improve in suit the work that you do God bless you and have a great day
Yes I went from that video to this one. just checking I understood you. No it was not from hammering with a tight grip. it was because it was a cold project on sheet metal. I do allot of armouring and sheet metal projects which use allot of cold working with small hammers. By snatch it back up do you just mean lift? do you mean issues from vibration still or repeated strain of lifting it? I just watched 4 videos and got 4 different ways to use a hammer. I am thinking maybe there is more than one way or tradition that works. The thing they all seemed to have in common was to grip loose, arm relaxed and no thumb on the back so I am wondering if that is the most important bit. All but one said long handle so that is probably good to. Oh no it is one am. I need to not stay up watching smithing. Good luck with your smithing.
You know I am wondering how people could think other than what you explained. Besides If you get a lot of hate, is because the world is full of behavioral deranged people.
I also wright left handed but mostly hammer right handed
Roy, That should have been a choke not chock, dohoooo best wishes, Geoff Lewis, Wales, UK. 🏴🏴🏴
Maybe the importance of anvil height could be a good vid. I'm in pretty much total agreement except in the comments you were saying that drawing using the edge of the anvil. Eh, we'll see your next post.
+Peter Moon that would make a great follow up video! I definitely plan on addressing some of the concerns of the comments section in a future video. I'm glad you took the time to watch the whole video and to comment!
God bless you
I agree with everything you say here about the importance of hammer control. I would've rather watched your face while you're talking than your hands waving around in front of your crotch though.
LOL you're very right about the awkward camera angles. Sometimes it's hard to get a good angle on what you're trying to show when you're limited in camera. Thank you for the critique as I'm trying to constantly improve. God bless you and thank you for taking the time to watch
Every video. Eventually I’m going to start making videos and will have to be weary of this as I talk with my hands as well.
Why a one heat leaf then?
TheOneOldGuy in this particular example I'm trying to layout straight too new guys that doing something in one heat is not necessary and it doesn't make you a better Smith than someone else who gets the same job done in two or three heats. maybe you get that particular operation done quickly but what about the rest of your 12-14hr day??? That is where the statement comes in. thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! it was a long video and I greatly appreciate you sticking around until the end :-)
..the only thing i saw was your hammer head is handled from the wrong side, for a right handed person. you need to get a bucket of steam and slip the handle out and put it in the other side...hahaha Good video Roy, you made some Good points to be considered...!!
Ol James lol I will have to give that steam treatment a try. you sir are a gentleman and a scholar as usual.
Thank you for taking the time to watch.
God bless
LOL! I just thought it was funny. Seriously, thank you for making such informative content. I really appreciate your sharing knowledge and experience so openly not only about the craft but the business side as well. God bless you and your family sir.
And at the End Of The Day, How You Feel At the End Of The Day , & The quality Of The Work That You Have Produced Stand Up In the long Run. , No , You are Not Wrong, Roy , as a Fellow Smith That Is Now 61 years old , it is alot harder now A-daze to swing a 3 & 1/2 Lb. hammer that it was , say 25 years ago, & yet Produce a usefull product. , I must Say to you "Young Bucks " , Take time , & Listen to some of us , "Older" Guys that have paid our dues in Blood & Broken Body Parts , "It's Not Worth Crippling Yourself, !" must say, Take care to do the job right, & be around for many years to take care of your Loved Ones...
I really tried. ......I don’t know how anybody could make it all the way through this video. 20 mins to say what could be said in 5.