Is the Future Cyberpunk? Science Fiction Through Philosophy and Theory
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- Art, aesthetics, and literature play an absolute fundamental role in how we interact with the world, and more specifically, the future. Undeniably, this is what science fiction often sets out to do, to add context to the future. But, for many, there's something presciently relevant about the world of Cyberpunk compared to Star Wars or Star Trek. For this, we explore just that.
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Timestamp:
Intro: 0:00
Neoliberalism of Cyberpunk: 2:53
Private Military: 4:40
Ultimate Hedonism and Postfordism: 5:24
Transhumanism and Postmodernism: 6:41
The Loss of Future: 8:18
Conclussionary Thoughts: 10:32
A Message: 12:11
Hey, friends! So, this video was theory-lite but just wanted to do a little passion project video on the topic of science-fiction. Also, really sad how Cyberpunk 2077 turned out tbh. Aside from massive bugs and performance issues, the game itself felt empty, just with a pretty facade. I was expecting something that would potentially rival Fallout: New Vegas as an RPG. Sad days. Anyway, if you guys enjoyed this, consider pledging on our Patreon, or becoming a CZcams member. You get early access to videos, exclusive videos, etc. Couldn't do any of this without the massive help from patrons and members. You guys truly keep this channel alive.
www.patreon.com/epochphilosophy
Excelent video and yes is a shame that Cyberpunk is a facade only a empty shell. I like your video because is very interesting how you analyse the ethics and talk about transhumanism, btw there book about Mark Fisher sound very interesting so I going to read. Awesome video-essay!
@@dracobeli172 Thank you, my friend. Glad you enjoyed it! Do be sure to read Mark Fisher.
@@epochphilosophy Yeah thanks you and greetings from Peru , I will read Mark Fisher.
@@epochphilosophy Why are you so condemning in regards to neoliberal politics? Do you think that a strong centralized socialist government gonna be better in regards to the development of humankind in comparison to rivalling private corporations? Why?
@@ElijahSmith Because the entire first principle of neoliberalism is a deference to "the market" as the sole medium for social interaction and the capitalist mode of production/ownership at the base of it, which is inherently exploitative (see: surplus value, rent extraction - things mentioned by Adam Smith himself as social residue of feudalism) and fundamentally alienating through its coercive framework and ever-receding horizon of possibility. This is, quite frankly, bullshit.
Socialism is literally defined by the reversal of these first principles at their core; a restructuring of ownership and control of material reality back into the hands of the public. It allows more than a handful of rich sociopaths to actually influence the trajectory of the future which is currently inevitably headed the one outlined by Cyberpunk and Epoch Philosophy here. I mean...this was pretty much the point of the video right?
Marx I think gets at all this well, especially in his consideration of the arc of technology defined by a capitalist mode of production, ie capital accumulation and consolidation, which creates the inevitable end-goal of replacement of the worker with machine to serve this function. This would be great of course, if work were not the sole mechanism by which the working class (hence the name...) were able to derive wealth.
_“Once adopted into the production process of capital, the means of labour passes through different metamorphoses, whose culmination is the… automatic system of machinery… set in motion by an automaton, a moving power that moves itself; this automaton consisting of numerous mechanical and intellectual organs, so that the workers themselves are cast merely as its conscious linkages.”_
_"Labour no longer appears so much to be included within the production process; rather, the human being comes to relate more as watchman and regulator to the production process itself… As soon as labour in the direct form has ceased to be the great well-spring of wealth, labour time ceases and must cease to be its measure. Capitalism thus works towards its own dissolution as the form dominating production."_
- both from “The Fragment on Machines” in The Grundrisse
It's actually pretty ingenious how he gets to all this too and in the process essentially predicts the concept of computers/AI/AGI in the abstract since a mechanized replacement for mental labor itself will necessarily be the final competitive frontier of the arc of capitalist technological progression, but uh...I clearly digress now lol, can elaborate though if interested.
Once again: "Cyberpunk is a warning, not an aspiration" - Mike Pondsmith
Solarpunk on the other hand is an aspiration though 😊
agreed, may look nice to see in person, with such 'technology' so advanced that it's impecible, but we need to remember the ideologies and the ideas it came up to be, a capitalist hell with an unfair social system.
@@KarlSnarks i like struggling to death, so... Solarpunk is not my thing
@@iwebweeb4585 Ok in your case cyberpunk is more aspirational ;)
@@KarlSnarks yupp always wanted to experience a dystopian city
What I found so fascinating when playing Cyberpunk 2077. Was that despite how amazing the city is, I noticed that I was more and more drawn out to the nomads, away from the city and everything.
Even in a video game I got effected by the higher level of stress a city imposes. Maybe it has something to do with that I grew out on the country side. But I don't think that the only reason.
Theirs a reason why the community calls the nomad ending The Good Ending
Leaving everything behind and starting new in a more free and family oriented lifestyle.
The city is stressful? You must be playing on a powerful PC. Cuz my night city was calm and quiet, very quaint and peaceful XD
I grew up in a small town by US standards. Everyone born the same year new each other in that town. I was also drawn to Panam and the Aldecaldos away from Night City. To this day even after Phantom Liberty's ending I still find the ending of going with the Nomads the best.
@ThePigeonManLyon
The irony of a CYBERPUNK game having a fanbase willing to defend corporations to the death should never be forgotten.
I think there is a clear differentiation between "defending the corporation" and "defending a work of art made by people that you agree with"...if that's the argument you want to make, you're gonna fall flat on your ass with the fat reality most every major work of modern gaming/television art was produced and created through a corporate structure: including major works like Bladerunner, Ghost in the Shell, and so on...works you defend. So if you want to attack corporate failure while accepting and enjoying its successes...that's fuckin ironic. Art is made by people, corporations are the method being currently used in which to produce it. It doesn't have to be that way and corporations and groups of people don't need to feel it is necessary to make the bad actions they take because of a system that pushes them to do so.
If you are trying to stop corporatism and even capitalism and the bad actions they are bound to take and take every day, acting as if there are individual bad actors and good actors (such as CDPR being "worse" but putting Tesla on a pedastal)...is not the way to fuckin do it. They are all the same shit as CDPR, just different situations and some more sinister, while others more desperate and naive.
That's like saying there are "bad apples" in the police, sorry, nah, the system allows them to grow and flourish and even bolsters their actions. The problems aren't individuals, they are the system that turns individuals to immoral actions.
So I think, in the context of actually being a human being, it's perfectly acceptable to defend a work of art while being able to differentiate that art from the corporate structure that produced it.
What's happening with 2077 is that a game that people enjoyed for the work by people put into it...was ruined by a corporation, and look at what they defend. Are they defending the actions of the corporation? Or simply the game as a work of art and defending the reality of what it took to make?
@@magvad6472 I guess you are replying to OP, not me.
Like Walter Benjamin said, is there art in the age of mechanical reproduction? Hardly.
Cheers!
it's a game
Is the future Cyberpunk? No. It's already here. What comes to mind was the james bond plot in which the villainy was fixed prices in order to have an evil plan, but in reality this had already happened at a much worse extreme IRL. The entire genre of cyberpunk is itself a simulacra. It is a simulation of a past's future. We have already experienced the villainous aspects brought around through the classics of that era. Neuromancer, Bladerunner, Snow Crash. All these brought with them a criticism from the time they were created. When you discuss fiction coming first, how fiction inspires the future and manifests itself into reality. The cyberpunk of the 80s did that. It happened. It already was and yet we continue to be in a state of becoming. The modern cyberpunk, this resonance you point out (as you said in stream you haven't engaged in the original content of this genre) is a simulation of the 80s original cyberpunk, which itself is a simulation of what that era thought was the future. Like when you watch the movie streets of fire now, it is the 80s interpretation of the 50s. It's surreal. It's farcical. It's ability to define a criticism of a time that no longer exists seems retractive and faulty, no longer able to discern what is relevant and what is purely aesthetic. The conclusion I come to is that your analysis here is short sighted and not based within enough of a historical context to be a useful critique. It simply points out the surface level intentions of a game developer that took inspiration from the simulacra. It's simply pointing out to people who think that politics in video games is including women of color of the direct themes the creators wanted to be seen, instead of seeing the game and its attached asthetics as a commodity itself. It is a skin to put over something to give it a new neon sheen, to embark on a nostalgia trip to a place no one remembers and to ride high on the false memory of something that never existed. It is a hauntological sedative implemented to avoid questioning the fundamental crisis of future's pasts within science fiction. Cyberpunk has already happened. We are living in it. It isn't the future. It's right now.
Yeah, I think what keeps the collective imagination frozen in amber is some dwindling but still pervasive...idk, "vibe" I guess, that the totality of it all _is_ progressing in an extremely vague sense, rather than as I think you're accurately saying "putting a neon sheen" on the bullshit we already live in. Perhaps _too_ abstract to make this claim, but it seems like in many ways, technology itself does this by masking social relationships with mere aesthetic complexity, giving it the illusion of linear "progression" but is merely a rearrangement of the same pieces.
I think the show Mr.Robot might be another maybe interesting case study to this, as I think it's ambition/central premise pointed toward quite literally attempting to break out of this in real time (of the show...obviously lol), but interestingly it didn't and I guess the question this is all getting at is: _could_ it have even? Can we "imagine the the end of the world more easily than the end of capitalism" precisely _because_ we have yet to end capitalism and extend the bounds of thought catalyzed by new social understanding and connection that the undergirding mode of production constricts? Or in other words, is the material base of dialectical materialism so intrinsic to the imaginative capacity of our collective consciousness that we have to cooperatively pass this threshold despite a lack of capacity for imagining its "recipes for the cookshops of the future"? If that makes sense. And yeah, no one's gonna buy that argument soo common ruin of the contending classes it is I guess. Coool.
What's short sighted is you taking the video literally. e_e No one said Cyberpunk will come to pass note by note the way it's depicted in media now. The themes around the DEGREE to which everything is ruled by corporations? That is the take here, because no, the same level of severity has not yet happened. It's really not even close. They're still playing dress-up, still having to appeal to a majority of people in order to sell anything at all. In Cyberpunk media, corporations do not depend on people to survive -- people depend on Them to survive. Today, this is definitely felt and is true to Some degree, but no, Cyberpunk is not Now. Everything else you said is true, but you assume that just because it wasn't included it means they don't know or understand the things you said. It doesn't Need to be included in order to get the point across, which, I guess, for you, isn't good enough. Doesn't mean it actually isn't.
If anything, it's your take that's short-sighted and obvious. Any half-nerd interested in this kind of stuff is aware of the cyclical nature of media looking backwards and reinterpreting a time through the lens of their Own time, thus rendering the results even more eerie than it already was. This is child's play. So, like, get over yourself. What you've said is even less "profound" than the watered-down theory in this video.
Aspects of cyberpunk but cyberpunk is still not now
It depends where you live. USA, Japan, South Korea - they're all cyberpunkian dystopias. On other hand Russia pretty much is where it was since like the 70s or smth, Poland's about to do the exact same thing as in the 80s - slowly wake up and fight the slowly more authoritarian regime, Middle East... Is being your casula Middle East, Hungary - same thing as Poland...
Japan is cyberpunk
I have the idea we are driftig towards a Cyberpunk future, where the street becomes your home.
It fits with the saying: "You own nothing, but you will be happy."
Sorry to necro, but those same people are now claiming they never said it. Cyberpunk is here.
@@Tehrawrzorz Yeah, with a distinction between rich and poor, only becoming more apparent...
Don't care about that, each his own life.
Sitting on a beach, with a telivision, making it yourself at home, having fun dancing, drinking, socialising, f*cking...
(there's some nice asses wallking around in Cyberpunk)
Can't be bad, making a cozy home on the streets, enjoying beautiful sunsets...
While another is setting up his barbecue, filling your nostrills with the sense, mommy's taking care of dinner, so everything's allright... (👍😄)
Doesn't seem bad to me, cause chaos, to me, equals coziness...
If that ever happens that is...
Would like it different, but i see you can be happy, living in those moments...
I believe Cyberpunk technically, is some kind of model-city, where we are headed.
I don't like the dirty beaches, full of broken microwaves...
It would hurt your barefeet if you try to run in the sand pure out of Joy. (!)
People are so dirty...
They all think: "Who cares? It's just one broken microwave."
Since they all think this, after two weeks you have a Cyberpunk-beach, and then think:
"What does it matter, they f*cked it up anyways... Honey! You can put your trash right here!"
And then crying when they meet someone, trying to enjoy the sunset, running playfully after each other, and scream:
"Aaargh! Who put this rusty microwave-door here?! That's dangerous!"
I would claim my territory, (I'm good at that) and protect it against others, trying to use it as a trash-bin...
So i can feel at home, cause it will be cozy, right on the streets...
I'll find a way, like a beaver-dam, where you need to get underwater first, to get to the coziness...
Maybe some Home Alone-style traps, but a way, i'll find...
A way can be laying your cozy spot around with dangerous electrocution-cables, ikes a spider's-web...
Then you don't have to barbecue, but the barbecue comes to you...
In that way, i see you can be happy, living in the moment...
Maybe happier then rich power-driven individuals, cause they only want more, in their thirst to satisfy that, they can never get cause tasting power, is additicting, but is not the way as they think, to become happy, as it's the same principle, over and over again...
So, i see it's possible, owning norhing, and be happy.
It will take a lot of societal stress away you wouldn't even realise was there.
For example, the urge to compete...
All are in the same boat, by fate, and nothing to be ashamed of, cause mentality, will change as part of the New Structure.
Can always be better, but i don't think it would be bad.
It would bring people back together, reminding them what it was all about without cellphones...
A different life, but not nesssarily worse then other lifes, just different.
Who's gonna say which life is better, or worse?
All pro's and con's, but never all the pro's, or all the con's in one life.
Imagine that!
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The second comment...
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"Beyond the fiction of reality, there's the reality of the fiction" (ZIZEK). In a sort of way, Cyberpunk is not exactly the future: it is our very reality now, elevated to the extreme. As I type this words in a PC which every hardware is made by just a handful of corporations; which, by its turn, serves to operate a software that totalize every single information in any part of the world in numbers in its possession; in a software whose company, of course, is a great monopoly of its market, gathering informations of billions of users worldwide... You got the idea. As I'm in this reality, I can see Cyberpunk is just right here, in this very platform we use to make this question.
They already have almost of it all. Capitalists are already talking about privatization of water - what many believes that will be the next economic cycle of capitalism, overwelming oil. The only thing that stills put a foothold in the world order as we know it since 16th century is the State's monopoly of violence. And even this is ruining in late-stage capitalism. Cities like Rio are already under control of private militias whose influence goes beyond the State.
Private companies are already launching men to space. What will happen when they took over groundwaters? What will happen when their power finaly take over the State by itself? What can happen if an atomic bomb, the ultimate weapon of mankind, becomes private property?
Personally, I agree with the response to the question at the end of the video, but I'd add one thing: the future marches towards Cyberpunk... and Bathesda's Fallout.
Yeah. However I don't know what really effective solution there could be
Japan is already there. While watching this video, I keep remembering Nietzsche’s “last man,” especially with the decadence and debauchery so pervasive everywhere today. This video also reminds me of Kaczynski’s writings about technology.
Idk when I lived there it was more communal than people assume in the western world. Also don't forget in glorious Nippon we still use fax machines to send what could be sent in an email, place 5 step escalators next to literally 5 step stair cases, don't cross the street if the light says do not cross(in most cases). The approach to what necessarily machine/technology is in Japan is way more ergonomic and has a system of ethics behind it compared to rampant hedonism like the states. The majority of technology in Japan(and by technology I will be honest I am thinking mainly of amenities/infrastructure, not luxury tech even though some of that also follows this) actually carries a system of thought behind it instead of abandoning it the second that it's able to become marketable. This is one of the big reasons I really loved Japan even though I understand their history of previous imperialism and current struggles with the rest of the Sino/Asian world.
I was feeling this very strongly that the cyberpunk world is literally apart of our world now. Ofc we are not completely in the cyberpunk dark future but…to me personally…we are in the beginnings of the real cyberpunk world now.
Is it lowkey bad that i wanna live in cyberpunk
@@killakam123321 nah mannn I love it toooo ToT lol, i think it’s good and bad tbh lol, theirs going to be cool shit in the cyberpunk world but at the same time bad shit XD. So ur definitely not alone on this :3
True, sci-fi predictions are never 100% accurate, because they weren't meant to be (but meant to be exaggerations and an exploration of ideas), and of course because it's impossible to predict accurately.
@@killakam123321 I mean, we basically got the boring parts of cyberpunk, but not the cool things ;)
@@KarlSnarks mmmmm true honestly lol wish we did but who knows what are future going forward will be ya know QwQ
This has the potential to be the best subject of your videos so far
@@AudioPervert1 lmao my dude is over here replying to every single comrade he can find on CZcams😭😭😭
Im pretty sure the future that awaits us, is the one seen in the movie "Elysium"
7:30 its wild to me how this video came out before chatgpt and we were all so naive
California's major cities are already extremely Cyberpunk-esque. If you visit LA and SF, you will find large colorful corporate owned skyscrapers juxtaposed with city streets permeated by poverty and filth. Hence, "Night City" being located in California.
I would prefer to have a 1950s style Atompunk future, but sadly I don't think that will ever happen.
Atompunk is impossible, we are wayy ahead of that
I prefer solarpunk
@@shizuwolf well that is out of bounds too, the rich and powerful dont want that, they want cyberpunk where they have total control over entire states thru their businesses and monopolies
Excellent video, I agree with many of your points. I was pleasantly surprised you gave Neon Arcade a shoutout, I fell in love with his lore videos. Keep up the good work man.
i think we are living in it right now. at least the start of it.
1. everyone has a smart phone (which is high tech) no matter how rich or poor (low-life) u are.
2. coorporation controls the government: try to do research on how many people in the government (not only in the US) owns a share of a certain company, usually its weapons manufacturing, food industry, energy.
3. cyber warfare technology is no. 1 priority not nuclear anymore. everything runs on the internet.
The transhumanism was my favourite aspect of cyberpunk.
me too
Prophetic! I hope this video goes viral, definitely sharing it around.
I think this is a bit more complex, Mike actually quite likes people like Elon. In interviews he is pretty techno bro-ee. And when you look at the game itself, you're working for cops and the perspective of gangs is very much a 80's fetishizations of them, not really being explored in any meaningful way. Video is kewl, but there is another layer of how cyberpunk is appropriated as another fantasy for radical individualism.
True, Cyberpunk 2077 is very shallow in its analysis of the kind of society it wants to critique, but to their credit they did portray the cops as only working to protect the interests of the elite.
I know this comment is a bit old, but what interviews are you referring to exactly? I've been trying to find them and he hasn't mentioned Elon in any of the interviews I've read. Mainly he seems to just talk about how cyberpunk is a "warning, not an aspiration" and all that
A quote of his I just found that I'm kinda fond of: "We were supposed to get The Jetsons and instead we’re not sure if we’re gonna get fed."
Sorry been quite a long time since, it was an interview during the hype build up for 2077 with smaller channels. Probably when he was pushing for his boardgame cyberpunk red. It may have been from a discussion with a polish lady cyberpunk youtuber. But yeah in terms of politics it just seems like he is fairly surface, you can hate cops and still think Elon will save us all.
Its a distopical posible future world, not necesarly the future
It's already here, we're just in the very early stages. The Cyberpunk we see in the movies and depicted in art is the 22nd century. My guess would be that the Cyberpunk period will be the last hi-tech period in our history as a species and will last a couple of centuries before humanity goes back to a more localized/lower tech civilisation. That's assuming humanity manages to survive ofc
what's the phrase "If you can't stop something from happening you may as well do your best to capitalise from it"
Looking forward to what you have to say, I love this subject! My take on science fiction in general is that it is often written from the perspective of the time it was written in. Star Trek has that utopian space race 60s feel. Cyberpunk is clearly an 80s projection, which was itself more of a dystopian time (think Reagan-Thatcher and "no future"). Of course the recent game copies these 80s esthetics and sets it in 2077. However, it is interesting to note that the original cyberpunk genre from the 80s is often set in our time so one might say the world predicted was not realized (yet) or did it?
Although we haven't progressed as much as predicted technologically, I would say many of the more subtle themes did materialize to some degree. The power of mega corporations, the commercialization of literally everything, ads everywhere, a society with ever more (virtual) subcultures and identities, a focus on retro pastiche.. In other words, the consequences of postmodernity. It's interesting the notice these subtle themes in the original Blade Runner, set in 2019 and considered both prototypically cyberpunk as well as a postmodern film. I'd say we live in early cyberpunk already, it just looks cleaner and more boring :)
You say it's a consequence of postmodernism, but why? Isn't it a consequence of late capitalism? I don 't really see how postmodernism plays into this.
@@sk8shred Well, Fredric Jameson explains it quite well in "Postmodernism, or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism". The two things are very connected. I'd recommend to Google it.
Also note that 'postmodernity' and 'postmodernism' are not precisely the same thing nor will you find a normative definition anywhere.
In some ways we have progressed technologically even better than expectations of cyberpunk. I remember an interview with Gibson about Neuromancer, saying his nerdy fans at the time pointed out that an internet would never be able to have such a bandwidth as described in his story, but nowadays we've exceeded that bandwidth by a lot.
Looks amazing!
cool content Epoch Philosophy. I broke the thumbs up on your video. Continue to keep up the awesome work.
the growth of AI from just 2 years ago when you posted this video and now in late 2023 is absolutely insane. If the trend continues I can't imagine how ingrained it will become.
Apparently we have BCI's that have promise in the prosthetics industry but creepily make the host extremely dependent on it and not because they need it because they're disabled, Cyberspychosis?
Great video!
Great video. Highly apt comparisons.
What depressed me the most about Cyberpunk 2077 was its lack of cyberpunk themes, it barely scratched the surface at all. It's a cyberpunk devoid of its content, hollow and shallow, using only the aesthetic of cyberpunk to tell a story that could have been set in the modern day without changing that much. It shows that even what was once the imagination of a dystopic future has also lost its imagination and can't think of a future that doesn't resemble today for better or worse.
Cyberpunk's creator literally helped in the game,if he says its like that then it is like that
@@LEONN515 having the original author of a work doesn't mean much really, they're mostly advisors or supervisors with little power over the final product. To take an example: Kentaro Miura, the author of the Berserk manga, was also involved in the Berserk adaptation from 2016 which nevertheless was a disaster
I dont understand why people say it lacks cyberpunk themes. They are everywhere. I feel like devs need to to dumb it down for them to understand. Do you know number one rule of a good storytelling? "Show, don't tell". cp77 shows you how fucked up cyberpunk world is and how people don't care about it anymore. Its feels normal to them. Government banned production of natural meat because of the virus and yet we see that rich people eat it, and some, who smart enough(voodoo boys), find a way to get fresh meat too. To me it looks like way of controlling population, certain corporations used virus fud in order bring monopolies to natural meat market and rise prices on it. Another moment is when Judy invites you to her place to met friends, your only options is 3 disgusting sorts of pizza, and characters don't care about it. All farms use some kinda genetically engineered plants, they fucking create viruses to destroys their competitors plants. And people in this world think its okay. City population lives near huge trash mountain and no one cares, poor people got used to this and rich don't care about it because they live in an enclosed babble with fresh air. Corporations greed ruins everything and governments cant do shit. Some people still fight, but majority thinks about them as fanatics. Other don't care and tries to survive. Third build their own nomadic nations and tries to live by old principles. Panam's character is written so good, if you just listen to what she is says and how she is saying. She and other nomads uses grammatically current English, but city folk not. This means that Nomads teach their kids better than fucking city public schools. This is confirmed by one of in game messages.
Game is buggy, not finished, but it sure is not hollow.
@@alexfaden3091 I belive some may view the game as only the bare aesthetic of cyberpunk, I agree the storyline seems to follow the social structure and government control a cyberpunk society would use. I mean having a protagonist considered low class I their society would immediately show the trenches of those who live in the 'poverish' areas of this setting, please correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played or researched a lot into 2077 but I do agree it does follow the ideologies and ideas of a cyberpunk society
@@alexfaden3091 You must have never heard of world history, economics, or third world counties. Everything you talked about in your reply are bio, eco, and sociologically related, and not _cyberpunk_ in the slightest. May I suggest you read an actual classic cyberpunk book, if you can afford one.
Many people think cyberpunk looks like the game, I doubt it will. Imo the cyberpunk we will see is the one of the book Electric state, Where old clashes with the new. You can see huge structures clashing with small suburbs and giant wrecks of consumurisim. In the book massive wrecks dot the landscape of the pacific west and addictive technology is invasive, The world is a strange yet familiar one, With the book telling how its world is constantly changing and how people just try to live there lives, It shows kids playing in the snow or a man bringing the grocceries home. Because in reality socitey doesnt change in a instant, it happens over hundreds of years and you cant notice a change in its fundemental structure.
I think the future will look exactly like cyberpunk 2077
Ye best start believin' in cyberpunk dystopias, yer in one.
Can't wait!
I enjoyed Cyberpunk 2077 as a critical space to think, I do think it didn't interrogate the Cyberpunk premise enough beyond transhumanism and the soul dilemma, especially in regards to corporations...and this may have more to do with the founder as well as the fact it's being made by a corporation....or it could just be they are more concerned with introducing the premise and genre and started soft. Are they being censored? Maybe, or by being inundated in a society that gave them success they are incentivized to soften their tone and may even empathize with aspects that should be challenged. I'd like to hope that they will get to deeper and more trecherous topics than something as flighty and incorporeal as the Ship of Theseus dilemma and coming to terms with changing as a person.
All throughout the game your character is angry at corporations, and siding with corporations ends in a terrible end...but what's the alternative? There is none, the game doesn't have to present a solution to be valid, but the lack of one leaves one to think that maybe there is no way out and you simply need to cope. This all feeds into the overall scenario we are in, "People can imagine the end of the world but not the end of capitalism". I can't tell if the game is REALLY smart, or kinda dumb...which is the problem. Is the nostalgia mishmash universe a reference to modern obsessions with aesthetic nostalgia, a lack of novelty, capitalisms inability to incentivize creativity over recycling the old, or is it all just a lack of inspiration on their part and a desire to avoid pushing the boundaries? Capitalizing on cheap nostalgia instead of making grander statements...it's hard to tell, because the game never actually fully talks about the premises, which is good writing but it also leaves one a bit confused as to the intention.
As it stands, I enjoyed 2077 as a game, and a story, and it highlighted elements of modern capitalism that are desperately important to highlight and emotionally connect people to being a systemic issue: isolation, loss of identity, and a general unextinguishable anger because of countless systemic injustices we have to compartmentalize...but yet we can come together in that pain.
I think AS A FICTION, 2077 has the tools to tell important stories, so I support the franchise...I'm just worried as a corporate product made and supported by a guy who is apologetic to Elon fuckin Musk...that the guy and the company may not even decide to interrogate the more important themes in Cyberpunk 2077 and the capitalism that it inevitably spawns from. People defer it as "corporatism" but it's just the logical end point of capitalism, and anyone who doesn't understand that probably has a system/ideological incentive to think that.
Very interesting video, you are probably right that the future of our civilization is heading in this direction, but how much time will pass before we see the world just like in cyberpunk 2077, blade runner or neuromacer? I think it has to be at least one more century, even though medicine and technology are advancing super fast and it's just a matter of blinking before we have mechanical prostheses or chips in the brain, even though the gap between rich and poor is growing, it's not that big , even though large corporations are richer than some countries, it's hard to say now or imagine that they would take over the role of governments or have private armies. What do you guys think, how many years do we need to bring the world to this state?
By the way, it's very interesting what you said about art, namely that nothing is really new anymore and just recyclable, very interesting theory.
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I think cyberpunk is the future IF current trends continue. However, I've seen a recent rise in anti-corporate sentiment, stronger call to protest lack of good climate policies, re-emergence of socialist and social-democratic ideals, and unwillingness of post-covid workers to return to the former status-quo of the job market. How these newly emerging trends will develop, as well as how counter-trends will develop (new ultra-conservative movements, anti-intellectualism, etc) is yet to be seen though, and early to call, but I have at least a spark of hope about it.
The current status-quo will still leave us with a damaged planet and society though, even if we manage to curb their rule, but maybe less damage then if we just let them be.
Cyberpunk never was about predicting or imagining the future, it is about the present making it's way into the future
When you break down the characteristics of cyberpunk works, it rings almost exactly the same as the majority of our real world issues today...
It absolutely is. It’s as much as a warning as it is a description of our current world!
My video was thinking about the socio-political practicalities of the question: do we really hit technological oligarchy?
We’re all in it right now!
Fantastic video
In the grim dark future there is only war.
This is the best you did so far!
A E S T H E T I C . . .
Like you said I think out of all sci-fi subgenres cyberpunk is probably the most likely to become reality in the near future.
What movie is the clip from?
I only see two paths for humanity. Either the Cyberpunk future or a collapse in high technology society and a return to localisation. A kind or more advanced version of the pre enlightenment era. Neither of the two look great from the perspective of the height of the 20th century. If the future is Cyberpunk then it will be a long time before it looks like what we see in the movies though. We have a tendency to overestimate the progression of technology to a massive deal. Just take the 80's for example. Back then, we thought we'd have flying cars, hoverboards and would be on the moon/mars by now. We're nowhere near any of that.
I am extremely confused by the quote about music slowing down. Have you, or the author of that strange book, looked into electronica recently? Do you listen to any new genres popping up on youtube, soundcloud, or other more obscure places? Just because you don't see it from where you're sitting doesn't mean its stopped happening.
When I was younger music was the pulse of my life-I needed to be in touch with it for energy, inspiration, hope, and joy. As I got older, i don’t seek out new music like I used to, even though it is often just a click away, so I miss that. (Joined Deezer recently though, so I am not giving up yet!)
its already here. Wake up, you've been had.
I loved this video
Except the future is already here.
If we're going to live in a dystopia then hopefully it will be badass with fighting robots n shit.
lmfao that's cyberpunk hedonistic and/or nihilistic spirit
Cyberpunk expectations: fighting for survival and undermining the corporate elite from the sideline of society, with home-made cybernetic implants and a kickass attitude.
Cyberpunk reality: working in wage slavery because you need to pay rent, while buying stuff from the mega corporations because there are no affordable alternatives to their products, while getting high and playing VR-games to forget the reality of your job.
@@KarlSnarks well said! No offence towards those who enjoy the aesthetic view on it, but a cyberpunk reality is one of the last things we need
Life imitates art because that art was created as a reflection of life itself. Whatever "dystopia" the human mind is capable of creating is exactly that: the capabilities of the human mind, which is in turn shaped by the circumstances and experiences that inspired such a creation. The golden ages of sci-fi have always coincided with the most tumultuous and radical eras of contemporary history (though there is certainly something to be said about the emergence of superheroes during the world wars and their relation to propaganda), what with the Nixon administration and the counterculture movements that followed inspiring a definitive age of science fiction in the 1970s and extending with the rise of conservatism into the '80s and the neoliberalism under Bush in the '90s that the video touched on... but the most dystopian thing of all may be the repetition and cycling of such culture, the reboots and remakes, that desensitize audiences to the critiques and messages of such medias and contribute further to the corporatism that they were intended to warn us about as they are turned to means of profit. Life imitates art, and I absolutely think we're headed that way, if we're not already there.
Cyberpunk is the future if Solarpunk doesn’t succeed.
Yes, make Solarpunk succeed please (though I wouldn't mind the neon easthetics :P)
First i want to say, thank you very much for this video. It is in my eyes very ironic and kind of funny, that you end up with all the amazon stuff... if not amazon wich other company, maybe besides google - stands for the dark threat of unleashed capitalism, making companies even more powerful than states, wich is ultimately the heart of the cyberpunk narratives...
What I see the future corporate competition is space exploration
which is also very cyberpunk-ish. Most stories of the genre don't really focus on the space travel part (or only mention space colonies casually) because they like to focus more on the cybernetic/computer technology, but there are some examples of them exploring corporate competition in space.
I think the Expanse would count, and an older example would be the Mars colony in Total Recall. Also, Cowboy Bebop is a very original take on it, mixing cyberpunk with Western, detective, slice-of-life, comedy etc. There are more examples but I don't care to mention all the ones I know of.
I just want cool Cybernetics
Btw, are you getting any money out of those ads or am I just wasting my time with them?
I am, luckily! Sitting through them definitely helps support. Although, I totally understand everyone who runs an adblock.
(I wish I had the ability to take away ads for Patrons and CZcams members.)
there’s a datashard in the first quest area that states the importance of universal healthcare
Damn. That's super interesting. I really wish they would have focused more on the political tonality of the world.
City is guilty, crime is life, sentence of death, darkness decends
Life imitating art imitating life imitating art.....
1:42 "Star Trek"
What about "observer"? The cyberpunk in it is much bleaker I think.
Have yet to play that game, although I heard it is wonderful. Cyberpunk 2077, just came out and Mike Pondsmith's tabletop has a huge fan base, so I used that world.
Could do many more on science fiction.
@@epochphilosophy ah yes that makes sense, try to play it man, it's really good.
Observer is more post apocalyptic where cyberpunk 2077 is capitalism on it's peak
Observer is more 1984 with a cyberpunk aesthetic (even though 1984 can still be classified as cyberpunk)
The trailer looks really interesting and indeed far darker. I know "cybergoth" is already its own little subculture aesthetic thing, but if it wasn't I would call this a cybergoth game, because of all the dark horror, melancholic narrator, hints of victorian architecture etc.
Haven't actually played the game though.
@@MechanicWolf85 I wouldn't classify 1984 is cyberpunk. It is dystopian but has nothing of the Cyber and Punk elements of cyberpunk. No extreme neoliberal or ancap capitalism, no DIY transhumanism etc. Cyberpunk stories are about the ways capitalism and technology can alienate and isolate someone, and make them question their humanity.
1:05 Is that a statue of Dave Bautista?
It's the present, you're just not getting the implants.
agreed, I mean it's capitalism x100,
Finally a gamer subject
Warlock, take extra note about the philosophy of Cyberpunk, and how the Republican Party in the United States is the biggest driver of it lol.
Brendon is the machine we need not wanted.
cyberpunk is a vision of technological stagnation, if the promises of a technological singularity are to be believed
I don't think any government would allow a company to have more influence than it. That's why laws and Parliament exists. But the corporates could merge with governments and keep all governments corrupt. And sometime later people will lose the ability to vote, not because they can't but because it won't matter.
Look at South korea and you will see. And do you really think joe biden is leading the US? No it's the Elites who are. Wake up
I keep dreaming about in a cyberpunk future
Have you played that mission where you get pranked by a series of Marxist posters?
What an interesting video!
Check out this shocking new book where the post-campaign chaos and its possible resolution were foreseen:
"The Ecstasy of Carbon," by Charles T. Laffoday, describes the world after Empire and much of Western Civilization collapse in a cacophony of Identity Politics, polarization and fractious subdivisions. It is a story informed by an Anthropological Futurism that is described from the point of view of the survivors that delves into a rarely imagined possible outcome of our current political climate of tribalism and divisiveness. It is a book that builds upon its precursor from 2010 entitled "Fixed Stars Rise," one of the first books to predict the collapse of Empire and the rise of Gay Elitism with its awareness of the unique evolutionary characteristics and trajectory of the gay male form as that most ideally suited to hybridize with increasingly complex AI who have no need or desire to perpetuate what will soon be the superfluous act of biological procreation with its inherent costs and conflicts, especially with what is feared to be a loss of rationality and personal freedom in a hyper-feminist world. Everything is again open for discussion in this existential moment where the most fit of the fittest must be chosen for hybridization... It probes the riddle of why male homosexuality has continued to arise in the random distribution of human evolution. Concomitantly, it ponders what the role of women and femininity would be in this future society of gay man/machine hybrids who will have no use for procreation. It discusses the evolution of concepts and ideas, especially in accordance with technological developments. It is here where is discussed the society and the ethics of the new race, The Mance, the merging of man with experience, and the gradual and then meteoric ascension of Porno for this new race and this new world, whereby only with the hindsight afforded by these technological innovations can it be perceived to encompass the gist of the deepest ontological meaning in existence, embodying the most vital workings of the energies of chemical reactions in their purest and most unifying forms, revered among the scholarly disciplines. It explores what is unique in the physical and cultural evolutionary history of Western Europeans, particularly Northern Europeans, which affords many of them a capacity---sometimes even a predilection---to feel ashamed and guilty and angry at the historical success of their heritage. It is the proclivity for The Bleeding Heart, which dissipates in the populations of Eastern Europe and Southern Europe and is rarely, if ever, found in the rest of the world's populations. Finally, it discusses the resolution of one of the most profound physical and conceptual dichotomies inherited from the human evolutionary path: the conflict between individualism, which is associated with the European trajectory, and that of collectivism, which is associated with the East Asian trajectory. "The Ecstasy of Carbon" is available now on Amazon in both the paperback and kindle version.
You mentioned transhumanism, but I find philosophical posthumanism has more theoretical backing. In fact, the only transhumanism example you gave was neurolink, as it's a theoretical "advancement" of the enlightenment conception of the human subject. The other examples, such as ai, don't really augment the human subject, so much as undermine the theoretical foundations of the abstract "human" subject and it's centrality of meaning.
Also, your thoughts on art almost sound like those of theory-fiction, which seeks to blur the lines between the two concepts.
The only thing I like on this is that with transhumanism we can be FINALLY immortal.
Absolute shitshow of a launch aside, this is the reason why people shouldn't give up on Cyberpunk 2077 (and the Cyberpunk genre in general).
devastating? i see it more as unfair but more free’er than ever. although the life in cyberpunk may be dangerous, kill hungry, government unfair and scary, we can almost do more things. experience a life we could not live, not face all the over complicated thoughts you have to think about in our current society. all you have to do is make a living, live your life, try to have fun or find meaning, and go crazy. it’s almost the definition of yolo.
within cells interlinked
So I guess what I'm saying is, the future is cyberpunk if the future is the same as our present and our past.
Why is not that much people making theories about the game?
because the fanbase wants to play the game, game theorists are common in their field, though extensive research on the game would be great
@@_.--._._-._--._-.--__.--._._-. yeah ik but this is the first time I don't see a lot of videos of people making theories about the game like other games
@@eljohnny5610 yeah i've noticed that too, especially with new RPGs that consist of political societies that deserve some acknowledgement
@@_.--._._-._--._-.--__.--._._-. yeah but oh well I guess is because the game didn't go good as it was expected to be
@@eljohnny5610 yeah thats true, didn't get a copy before they took it away for PlayStation ;/
I will not let it happen
it is sad. if that is our future.
10:00
I feel like cyberpunk is still too utopian we need a new vision of the future we need cybergoth
Idk what utopia you think Cyberpunk is but mate, those neon lights aren't gonna do justice for those working as slave in this setting
@@_.--._._-._--._-.--__.--._._-. cyberpunk makes too overly hopefull statements at least 1) there will be people and 2) if there is people there will be resistance
@@lightarmanov6266 oh that's what you mean, I guess I can agree on your ideas now
Ewwww gross
Fucking patron takes 30% of your money bro.
Video is great!
The setting is called night city? My god that's dumb
None of the conditions represented in the cyberpunk world are special or new to humankind. They have pretty much always existed.
But cyberpunk portraits them raw and unapologetically and of course with far advanced technology.
Even religion has always just been a tool and facade for retaining power over the people for the powerful, and a tool to find in an exceptionally cruel life for the people at the bottom.
*It’s Friedrich Nietzsche
Cyberpunk 2021
To a lesser extent to the board game and 2077.
Imagine cyberpunk but boring and cringey. That's our future.
That's correct.
No the world is not futuristic yet like cyberpunk 2077 because we haven’t got that advanced yet but I wish we did 😞
Dude, cyberpunk isn't a nice world to live in. And we are in the beginning of it. It will go far and it's not cool futuristic world. It's purely dark dystopian and dysfunctional. It's terrifying. Technological advancement is more dangerous than it is cool.
@@morbidgirl6808loser
Cybetpunk es now
East asian contries are cyberpunk societies right now
I disagree about avant-garde and new forms of art they're happening internationally and in the club/experimental scenes. However I don't think the Cyberpunk 2077 is a our future but a future we are sold and recycled back to us by the capitalist systems and we play and watch the video game as an entertainment or copy of our own self-demise. This Cyberpunk game is an illusion mixed with our own reality. The real dystopian future I think is a cloud network or limbo or infinite dark space which imagination is engineered and futures become predetermined
yeah cyberpunk does seem to be our future, the best signs of it are new york, and many other crime ridden cities of the US, the camera network in China, and the NEOM projects in saudi arabia, and remember its just 2023, almost 2024, imagine what it will be like in lets say 2040-2050, because we will all still be alive by then, in 2050 i will be around 45 years old, most of us will also reach the iconic 2077, which is when i will be 72 years old.
Cyberpunk future is already here. were doomed. nobody seems to care about whats going on in the world and the fact that our future is basically cyberpunk 2077 is scary because there will likely be danger everywhere
Now I have a reason to hate this world!
Hopefully not terribly done like the game was
no, solarpunk will be the future. look for game b, alexander bard, john vervaeke...
Solar is not possible for all city
Don't forget deus ex
I prefer solarpunk
These comments are pissing me off bro I wanna know if I can be a god damn cyborg or not I don’t wanna know about your theories you think are deep😐