Cafe Racer Build 26, Suzuki GS550 Carburetor adjustment for running pods
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- As many expected running pods on your Cafe Racer build isn't plain sailing. Here's the start of my journey to work out the correct settings and getting the Suzuki GS550 Cafe Racer to run properly. In this video I test out the bike running and getting ready to figure out what jets I need to order.
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Can't lie you motivated me soo much to start a cafe racer project and I'm just waiting to buy my first bike. I'm looking to do my a2 first so I can ride a bigger bike but I think I might start a 125cc cafe racer build before. Thank you for being such an inspiration. Everyone who reads this comment and loves bikes should follow and subscribe to this channel.
+Hamza Edoo amazing. Good luck for when you do you A2. It's great to hear when people are about to start on their projects. Keep me updated
I've rebuilt these carbs several times sorting mine out on my gs550, first thing is if you notice adjusting the fuel pilot screws on the bottom of the carbs is not doing anything take the carbs off and pull the fuel screw. Most likely the tips broken off in the carb, this is s huge pain to get out trust me I had three broke off. As far as the jets, I went to six sigma website and gave them the information they needed to build a kit for me. It worked great other than my slow jet was to big. I have 4 individual pods and a 4-1 custom exhaust (open header) and I run the original slow jet. My air pilot screw (screw on the side of the carb) is at 1/2 turn out. My fuel pilot screws at 3/4 turn. My mid jets are the originals and my mains are 97.5 on the outside carbs and 95 on the inside carbs. My needle clips are in the original positions as well.
I I also bought the kit from sigma, running the same set up as Noah Wenke and it's spot on. I should have just bought the jets recommend by you would have saved some money. But bike is running great now.
I found you because I have a cx500. Dude you are great at explaining things. Be blessed man
Fantastic, hope your CX is coming along too.
For The Bold - dreegez when I first bought it photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMu7t2-HnYHik5Zy-6EE05snSH_5f-2o7XpqSyy , after all I changed it, no welding instagram.com/p/BYJvHTIjYr2/?taken-by=auggment
Quick question what size Jets do I put on my CX500 and cx650 carburetor cuz I'm thinking about putting a pod on them
Man!! I am a huge fan of all of your videos. Your videos popped up on my "watch next stream" at the same time that my buddy was telling me to get a bike... Two weeks later I bought my first bike. Got a 1983 Honda Nighthawk CB550sc for $200 and a handgun. Big project. Didn't run, a the electrical harness had been hacked/slashed/melted and it looks like one of the last owners didn't feel up to finishing the frame work after doing a mono-shock conversion. Lucky for me, I am a master certified ASE automotive tech and electrical/diagnostics are kinda my thing. And as it turns out a lot of my know how and skills translate to motorcycles. However, I have never had to study carburetors. So there was a good deal of learning I had to do. Had it running and most of the electrical sorted out by the next week. The guy thought it was a lost cause.
Thank you for being an inspiration! And I can't wait to see how these projects of yours turn out. Good luck and have a fantastic day!
Amazing, sounds like it was a job you could be proud of, carburetors are currently what I'm playing with. Thanks for your comment.
It might sounds stupid but it's how I would try it before re jeting the carbs and change everything : you may try the air box with the factory settings to make sure for 100% good running ( idle, air leaks, synchro, valve clearance, blablabla, etc etc ). Once you know everything is okay go to the next step. As you already know, the cleaning process of the carbs and jets is the most important. I'm impatient for the next steps and the end result as the success of this build. :)
Hey man! Just some thoughts on carb basics:
When you remove stock mufflers or stock airboxes and throw pods on, you’re gonna get a very lean mix. (A lot of air) as you discovered.
That’s not a bad thing. What you then need to do is increase fuel supply to normalize that mix, like you’re doing. Trial and error is your friend, just keep bumping up the jet sizes until it idles without choke when it’s warm, and without tape on the pods.
An important note about jets:
The slow jet controls 80+% of the idle air/fuel mix, so that’s what’s most important. I would focus on getting just that one in the right size as it will mostly control the idle mix. The main jets control 1/2 open - wide open throttle (WOT), give or take.
Lastly, not all of your tuning will be done in the jets alone. You need to get those right to get it to idle yes, but the fine tuning and “dark arts” are gonna be in those needles that are turned out from stop. 5/8s, and 2 out I believe you had them.
Once it idles with the right sized jets, screw in and out those screws till you get a nice mix. Trial and error. You’ll wanna work your way screwing out (if it’s a gas needle) until it gets really rich and wants to cough, then screw in slowly until it idles nice and happy. That gives you the best rich mix while the bike is in tune.
Cheers mate! I’m waiting on that next video!
+FooDude2011 excellent. Thanks. Valve shims done, awaiting dynotek kit then moment of truth
Hey I had the same idea regarding the air intake, but mine is just a bit better I would say hahaha. Multi cylinder don't really care about the exhaut because all the work in in the carb fuel repartition and synchronisation, despite of monocylinder. My point is the main issue you're facing is on the air intake we agreed on that point.
My idea was to reduce this air flow by inserting inside the pods some mask. From a more technical way, I though about cuting a star shape with a hole in the midle. the advantage of this shape is that you're sure that its no going to be suck into the engine. Run the bike with a small hole in the middle. If not running good you just have to take it off an create a bigger halo, until you find the right flow similar to the stock air box.
Do not hesite to contact me on instagram if you want more information about this ;)
Keep it up !
today i tried cutting an aluminum mask from a beer can side and it seems like a possible option
I have to say you do a great job on these videos! I have a 79 GS550 cafe project going myself and your vids are giving me a ton of inspiration. Keep up the good work!
Thanks, amazing to hear you're on a GS build, all the best with it.
Great video as usual, looks like you're going about it the right way. Can't wait for more videos on this carb adjustment.
+daren granger thanks. Let's see if we can get it going
The pilot jets control the idle and low engine speeds. The main jets control the high speed/full throttle. Were the jets replaced, or were they just soaked in cleaner? There are many little holes in each of those pilot jets, and ALL of them must be clean. I use a strand of wire from a stranded wire to clean those tiny jet holes. Also, the main jet must be fully seated. The only thing that isn't seated is the air bleed, and its best to start at about 1.5, to 1.75 turns out from full seated. Your issues may be as simple as the idle speed isn't adjusted properly. Good luck.
Smaller pods will reduce cfm and allow you to idle without choke. A lot cheaper then re jetting carbs and saves time. Just switch come filters to smaller size
So your current condition is a lean condition, try turning IN the air pilot screws on the sides of the carbs. This will lessen the amount of air in the IDLE circuit. This won't affect the mix after half throttle. Take the screws in till you hear the bike bog a little then turn back out a 1/4-1/8 of a turn. Also just a side note the bike should not idle bellow 900 rpm because it can cause insufficient oil pressure. If you need anything or any questions hit me up I can shoot a video of bench top carb syncing and tuning if you need. I also have some spare parts and gaskets I'll give you if you want to pay postage.
Noah Wenke, Any chance you could message me about tuning my carb properly? It's a GS400 with Mikuni BS34. Running shortly mufflers with air pods. Got the bike like this and previous owner couldn't get it tuned properly.
What pods do you have
With this bike the jets needed increasing and the fuel screw out 2. But turning the fuel wouldn't have worked on the idle circuit without the bigger jet replace. Also invest in some K&N pods if you're running cheap ones otherwise you'll be forever chasing your tail.
For The Bold - dreegez , I have K&N pods. I haven't actually adjusted the screw as of yet. I will go all the way in the out to the factory setting. The only thing that bothers me is that when you fire it up it idles really really high and I have the idle set screw backed all the way off
For The Bold - dreegez. So I've just adjusted the screw but what about the screw on the driver side of the bike. That one is not adjustable from the factory
When I researched jetting a lot of guys were running 100's . That seemed a bit big for me and I went a bit conservative. Elevation makes a difference also. My bike sat for a long time so carbs were plugged. I rebuilt them and then pulled again and cleaned them again as it had the same problem as yours. Pay special attention to idle circuit and blow it out with compressed air.
+Rob Green yeah 100 is a jump from 80. I've cleaned them once but worth cleaning them again
Good trick for testing the air/fuel issue, using the tape. I had the same goal for my CX500, have it ready for the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride this year. However life has been to busy and I have made virtual 0 progress. Still participating, but the CX500 will have to wait until next years ride.
It was mostly just for fun and interested to find out if it would do anything as I'd read on a few forums that these let way too much air in.
Same here for sure now, running out of time and no time left for fundraising, next year for sure.
I love tuning carbs haha mostly messed with them on old tractors but I have learned that with determination and a good ear you can tune anything ;)
+Kenny Bowen I hope these will work with the new jets. Like you say it's a matter of messing with them until they're right
I have seen people use washers to restrict the air flow on pods before. I think the re-jetting is a better option though.
That blue tank looks amazing in the sun light
Being a nightmare to me too 🤔😥
I think it might have to be a combination of both. You can only go up a certain number of sizes in jets, after that would be to restrict the air flow.
A Black art for sure
Best bet without a dyno and exhaust gas sensor is to go with the lower of your two estimates, try to set it up for idle then ride and do a plug chop while under load at high revs. Then pull each of the spark plugs and visually ascertain the burn quality.
+Daniel Sinnott definitely. Hopefully if I can get it to run ok I'll do a plug chop. I'm going to see how well a colortune will work also. See how it goes.
I've never used one - it will be interesting to see how you go :)
+Daniel Sinnott same here. Never used one either. Looks pretty good as you can set your spark to burn at the correct colour.
Don't know if you already know this but anyway - here's a tip - check if rubber boots of PODs do not cover the small weird pilot (I know they are not called so) holes in the main Bernulli boar.
+kratuli a really good point. I've checked the ones I have and luckily these have the clearance needed
Good video! I use a small external fuel tank whenever working on carbs for easier access. Also gaffer tape on pod would look better on pod manifold instead of outside
+Jonathan Vessey definitely. That tape won't be staying. I'll have a play
I have a 78 gs 550 with pipes and pods. I used a 95 main jet raised the needle one position and left the pilot jet stock. It runs great. I might play with the pilot jet down the road as there's a slight bit of popping when I let off but it's very slight. It works great at my elevation of 1034m. If it's not running with out choke maybe the idle circuit is dirty? Also I have a dyna electronic ignition and love it. Points were great when that's all we had but it's time to let them go. Lol. Have fun and keep up the good work!
+Rob Green ah great. Someone who's done it already. I'll get some 95s although a lot bigger than what I'd calculated. But definitely worth getting a few. It's idling with the pods covered with tape but going to soak the carbs again. Thanks for the useful comment.
Dreegz I've also got a 78 GS550 and recently changed to K&N Pods and Mac 4into1. I completely stripped the carbies and ultrasonic bathed every suitable component. Then reassembled with needles 1 notch higher. I bought a range of genuine mikuni main jets and found everything below 100 to be too lean. 102.5 was perfect. Idle jets remain stock. I also installed a Dyna S ignition with matching coils. I have 2 spare VM22SS assemblies if you need any parts,
+them16s amazing. Illl get a selection and have a play. Going to get an ignition kit too. Get rid of the points although they are new
Otha Stone Many retailers sell them, search online or ebay for 'Mikuni N100.604' which is the correct main jet type. Personally I'd start with getting a set of 100s, test and you'll then be able to hone in on a size range from there. Jetsrus have them but they are not the cheapest online. www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/suzuki_550_GS550_1977-1979.htm
+Otha Stone yeah that's what I'll be doing. Jetsrus.com is a good place to start
Love your videos and they are all so interesting. I just wish you'd do more. The anticipation of the finished products of both bikes is killing me. Appreciate this channel. Keep at it
On my gs550, i only changed the main jet to 84.
But be aware that the petcock does not deliver enough fuel.
It needs to set to prime, or modify it.
The engine runs for the moment the best after trying al sizes of main jet and pilot jet.
Kind regard
I've actually ended up going to 110 on my mains also since this, under load the 87.5 wasn't still enough, and yes, replaced my petcock with gravity fed rather than vacuum fed.
@@forthebold
Well if that works..ok.
Trying 92 mainjet on my bike resulted in pitch black sparkplugs.
The only weird thing going on right now.
After a cold start and driving a few miles the rpm is increasing over 1500 rpm
Let me explain better.
I start the engine with choke.
Close the choke.
It idles at 1000 rpm
I take a ride for a couple of miles..then the rpm is aprox 2000 !!
What is happening here ?
Any suggestions ?
Kind regards
Just found this so I do not know where your at on doing the jetting but with mine and only running pods I am running 20 on the pilot's / 70 on the mid range / 95 on the mains. Mine also started off at 15,50,80. One thing you may do is raise the slide needle 1 clip. By lowering the clip you raise the needle. I just picked up another 1978 GS550 with 685 miles on it at the Barbers Vintage show here in the US. Only had to pay $1.09 per mile or $750.00 and a 1978 Kawasaki KE100.
+72+HourBOB that's good to hear. And running ok on those sizes? Do you have a 4-1 or 4-2 exhaust? I'm yet to properly tune mine on the new jets. But trying 17.5 and 87.5
I had the stock exhaust (4 into2) on the first one and will have the same on the bike I just picked up. What size are you going to try on the mid. range jet. Mine came with a 50 and 70 may have been a little fat. On this 2nd bike I am going to try using some jet drills as all I can find is 70's and larger so I am going to try drilling a 50 to a 60. I am about 700 feet above sea level. By the way putting tap on the air filters is a good way to see where you are in jetting. Keep the air filters well oiled as this cuts down on air flow and believe it or not where your legs are plays a part in jetting. If you keep your legs tight to the sides of the bike it shields some air away from the filters. But hanging your knees in the breeze at speed will let more air into the filters. If you think I am crazy a good friend of mine is crew chief (Keith Perry) for team Hammer/M4 Suzuki and his bike at Barbers has small shields made of plastic covering the outer air filters to control airflow. All my parts should be in in about a week and I will let you know what I came up with this time.
Hey buddy I noticed something dripping of the exhaust header clamp 8:15 - 8:26 looks to viscus to be oil, possibly petrol.
+Dtaylo yeah that's the oil leak I mentioned from the rocker cover dripping onto the clamp. Well spotted
Found your video on the re-jetting of the carbs after air filter change :-) You mentioned some sort of "schedule" : if you use 1 pod, go up 1 size in jets, if you use 4 pods go up 3 sizes in jets, and about the turns for the air/gas mixture needle ..... Did you draw up that schedule somewhere? Or could you draw it up if you have some spare time? Thx in advance !!
If you google it you'll find the chart on Bike Exif, probably more accurate than out of my head.
The duct tape is a funny solution hahah I hope I don't have to worry about my carb too much when I put it back together and put the pod filters on...
+Driver's Side ha. Never meant for it to be a permanent solution but it does show that pods affect the fuel to air ratio. Chances are your carbs will probably need some work if those pods are going on for the first time
@forthebold do you know where i can find swingarm bearings?
Timing will also affect carb jetting. The company you ordered your Jett's from should have or recommend a jetting calculator. This will help with determining main and pilot jet size and shim per needle based on your setup. This is what I used carbjetkits.com/bikes-with-jet-kit-calculator.html . The bike sounds great, btw!
Hi, I broke one of four fuel pilot jets, and I need to replace it. Problem is that i cant find any website selling this. I have tried 6 sigma jets and Bikebandit. Did you replace yours? If so, any suggestion on where I can find new ones? I got the VM22SS carbs, same bike as you gs550e 77'. One more thing: Do you know if the fuel pilot screws is supposed to be sealed? Thanks a lot!
Jacob Myrer some are sealed, depending on the model. Try jetsrus.com
Thanks a lot for the quick replay!
every week you gain 1000 subscribers
i have pods but never put them on my 82 750 suzuki T model..was afraid it would not burn rich enough...i tore them carbs down a clean all the green gunk out ..its not right but not bad ether
It’s true that if you change to pods you need to up your fuel mixture.
Hi! Didnt catch the turns on the screws under the carbs, I took mine out and forgot the count.
The air/mix is two turns original, but what did you set them on when using pods? I got gs550e 77, so hope you can help me out with the problem :)
I think it was on the colortune video for the GS. From memory it was 2.5 turns out for the fuel and 0.5 on the air mix
Was you bike cold You should always check valve clearance on a cold bike as metal expands with heat
+hoppo1000 yeah, I'd left the bike to cool down completely. A good point also.
Do the jets compensate for the air with fuel or do they limit/meter the air intake?
+HighAltitudeAddictions the jets will control the fuel only. But what it will do is deliver more fuel that the engine needs
Rhythm bro! I think you got it though.
interesting, thanks. how many builders must suffer thru ''air intake''
I really need to learn from you guys. I just bought a GS550 (Mikuni VM22[ss] carbs). Where can I get a good carb rebuild kit (preferably just the jets... I think. I'm going to have individual pods, and a very free flowing exhaust. I just want to replace all the jets with "properly" sized jets. I don't want to file jets or anything crazy. My bike currently idles with some choke (original airbox). I suppose that means my jets are likely dirty. Thanks.
Thanks, dreegez (as I know you). I appreciate you greatly for your great videos.
Remember to add the 'as' at the end of the name. Vm22ss. (Vm22 are pit bike carbs). Jets for vm22ss are universal size. Available everywhere from eBay \ amazon \ jetsrus
For The Bold - dreegez Thanks. Yeah, the official Suzuki Motor Corp. GS550 77-82 Service Manual lists the carbs as VM22SS. You're right. So, are VM22-133 the same as the SS, the same as the pit bike carbs, or something different entirely? I'm wondering about this particular model, because VM22-133 keeps coming up when I search for VM22SS parts - annoying. I'm trying to find 22SS on charts, but I'm not seeing them. Charts listing all the model types of a particular item seem to help me with this.
The pit bike ones are completely different. Best thing is to measure the jests. Length width etc nod just search for Mikuni jets and match the size. They're universal
I've noticed the pit bike carbs are clearly physically different just from the outside. The VM22-133 are definitely the same shape at least as the "VM22" pit bike carburators.
I just can't believe that Mikuni doesn't even have information for old parts on their site. In fact it's pretty bare in general.
Then there's no literature (that I can find in several hours of research) on the VM22SS carbs.
That really helps. The jets being universal, and just sized is a great thing for the customer. I apologize for being so hopeless. Carbs and the wiring are real hurdles for me. Haynes manual is in the mail!
Welp, this is officially the largest forum on GS550 mods and restoration. hahahaha
What jets did you switch and where did you find them brother. Just got the same year and model bike for a build project
main jet to a size of 87.5 and my idling jet to 17.5, needle lifted 2 notches.
What is your battery called
It’s a ballistic
Thank you so much. Just started filming today 🤙 making a parts list too
Is the slow jet the pilot and small/long jet and the main jets the small ones like bolts?
This help identify the look of each jet. jetsrus.com/
I need help my gs550 diaphragm carb is idle around 2000 rpm then gradually increase to 3.5-4.0 rpm I'm so stressed ride it especially during red traffic light
I already try adjust the middle carb skrew and nothing happen . Is there any other point to lower down the idle.
Just the height of the needle. Perhaps your throttle cable is too short?
@@forthebold my pilot jet housing is broken .. replace with another carbs
g
hi i have a question i dont know anything about these gs550 i just baught one its an 82 o ly had 1037 miles on it and it has the original title from when it was baught new i was planning to cafe race it but since its such low miles and only one owner would i drop the value cafeing it should i just clean it up and restore it
If it’s in a really good condition I would restore. Be more value
love your videos.
+big yada thank you
I bought a 1981 GS550 recently. It doesn't have carbs at all. Should I just find some aftermarket ones or try to find a used oem one?
I would recommend OEM ones.
@@forthebold so far most oem carbs I find are about 120$ and don't work. Would it be worth it to buy one and have it serviced then?
whatever you buy, (unless new) need to be dismantled and cleaned and all internals replaced
When and where is the gentlemens ride? Hopefully i will have my bike finished by then
+matty Moto its worldwide but I was hoping to take mine to Manchester
For The Bold - dreegez ive only seen of them in places like italy never heard or seen of one in the uk, am i okay to message you about it on instagram or facebook or something like that, im only about an hours ride from manchester, its been a dream to go on one of the gentleman rides
+matty Moto yeah hit me on instagram. If you sign up on their website you'll see the venues and the number of riders they have
look on the inside of your pods,is there an edge or a lip ? if so it is possible blocking of one holes on the carburetor? it was an isssue with one of my builds for the jets i just bought 3 set with about 10 sizes up and i raised my needles by putting a ring under them?
+peter kokelaar definitely a valid point. I've checked the inside and there is enough space but good shout out. Did the jets work for you in the end?
yes they did help a lot it runs good with the bigger jets and the needle raised worked fine to make the throttle respons better
+peter kokelaar excellent. Glad to see there's someone with a positive outcome. Thanks
+peter kokelaar excellent. Glad to see there's someone with a positive outcome. Thanks
Hello, where did you happen to purchase the NGK spark plug wires that are colored?
+Dylan Walter good question. I got the maroon ones from a local motorcycle garage, but I'll be looking for bright red ones for the CX500 soon and I'm yet to find a supplier
sounds good, I've done some searching and possibly the local shop or someone else had painted those ones?
+Dylan Walter the maroon ones are standard colours, as for the bright red ones I'm sure there'll be some around. I'll have a look tonight actually. I'll keep you posted
OHHHH SNAPPPP!!!!!! Its not a real build without the tape. Lol Hahaha I cant believe it actually worked!!!! I'm actually crying now. LMAO
+Sunset's Garage I can't believe it either. I was doing it out of curiosity and a laugh
Damn. Looks like I'm taping my pods :p
Please don’t do that. They need jetting properly
@@forthebold Of course of course. I'm looking for different jets for my GR650
Where did you order the jets?
+CaptainCPH ordering them tomorrow. Jetsrus are American based but ship to the uk. I'm going to source a U.K supplier
What size main jets and idle did you eventually use on the gs550 with k&ns?
I didn’t change the jet size when I put the K&Ns from what I had here but it instantly ran a whole lot better.
@@forthebold so was 87.5s for mains you fitted previously ? It's the last thing to do on cafe racer project and carbs are def not my strong point ur videos have been a great help and guide for me along the way cheers 👍
Yeah and I raised the needle 2 notches. All depends though what exhaust system you’re running and what altitude you’re at.
@@forthebold great it gives me a start point . I managed to get a good set of standard downpipes with upswept tulip silencers went for the two k&n filters instead of pods . Really appreciate ur advice.
Cheers
Ah ok. So you’ve kept the filter box have you instead of pods?
Go back to the stock air box, less headache same fun !
+Alejandro Kanj bongard too late for that. All mounts are gone. Besides if it can help others it'll be worth it
The only way to have a perfect tuning is using wide band sensors
Could you do an offroad quad video it would be amazing!
Something I've never thought about but a quad scrambler would be interesting.
1st Comment yea,and great video! Enjoyed each one and inspires me to keep working on my bike but question or possible opinon how to install pod on a 85 Honda Sabre thanks
Later bikes have CV carbs and I believe pods and CV are even harder than these.
Next project: xv 750?
+oscar ström I would love to
Are you able to show me how you ran all your fuel lines?
Not much here at all. Just 4 inches of pipe from the tank to the carbs and another pipe for the vacuum petcock
The petcock line goes in between 2 and 3?
Depends on the carbs but yeah the fuel is in the middle of mine. From memory the breather could be on 3
Thank you dreegez.
I have to paint my motor then I will be onto the wizardry of carburetors. Lol
+Sunset's Garage good luck
Have a chat with Moonfleet41. Electic ignition helps in rainy weather
+Neil Jeffs I'll check him out. Any pointers on people who've ran pods on their GS will he of great help
What an absolute WRONG WRONG WRONG way to attack the problem!
It worked