243 Win vs. 22-250 Rem - Season 2: Episode 84
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! In this episode, I answer your questions about the 243 WIn vs 22-250 Rem, 7-08mm, 30-30 vs 243 Win, 30-06, and more.
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
00:19 - Corrections
01:34 - Why can't you buy a 7-08 in Europe?
02:57 - Weatherby Cartridges
04:51 - 30-30 vs. 243
07:28 - Document Your Guns
08:46 - P.O. Ackley said 30-06 Can Take Down A Bear
10:22 - Underloading 7mm Rem Mag
13:11 - 22 Win Mag Rimfire Accuracy
16:23 - 243 Win vs 22-250 Rem
19:53 - Coriolis Effect
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
I've shot a lot of whitetails under 50 yards and out to about 200 yards with my 243 using a 100 grain soft point boattail and it destroys what it hits. Many times, the bullet is just under the skin on the opposit rear shoulder area. The bullet mushrooms very well and makes quick, lethal kills. In 25 plus years, it has never let me down.
I have to agree but I use a slightly heavier grain, however using buckshot at around 50 yards I have experienced the shot staying just under the skin on the opposite side, those shells are lethal.
243 im not a show off.
Thats the problem with 243... never get a blood trail.. poor choice.
@@mjuberian my experience with 243 differs from yours. I shot a doe inside 30 yards a couple years ago and was impressed with the blood trail left over the 40ish yards she ran. I shot a wild pig at around 50yds with same load with a quarting away shot and got total pass through and the animal dropped in its tracks. I'm curious as to the experiences you have had with the cartridge as well which loads you have used.
been using & reloading the 243 for 50 years -- always the 80 & 85 gr bullets -- all shots inside 150 yards -- dead deer
My biggest fear is that my wife will sell my guns for the price I told her I paid for them!
now that there was funny.
😂🤣😂
My biggest fear is my wife will meet the guy I buy all my guns from before I die and the subject of how much they cost🤔😳😂 it’s a good thing the shoe store and plants store are not next to the gun store🤔😳
Haha right?!? I have to sell one to get one now. Apparently I have “too many”
Where do you live?😂 I’m lucky, my lady doesn’t ask any questions.
When comparing the .243 to the .22-250 in my opinion they are both excellent cartridges. When I hunt big game a 24 caliber is the smallest bullet I can legally hunt with so the .22 caliber is a varmint rifle and the .243 is a big game rifle.
Ron, you have one of the most pleasant, dignified, and informed personalities I've seen. Thank you for such a wonderful and educational experience.
Ron, please replay ; on 25cal purse pistol
Always a good day when Ron has a podcast. Thank you sir for always adding something to my knowledge of hunting and the shooting sport.
I shot a lot of.22 WMR. My go to for coyotes, fox, and raccoon. Many improvements with the cartridge and rifles since I bought my first one in 1980.
Hey Ron, my first and only experience with a 460 Weatherby was at an informal shooting range south of Fairbanks, AK one very cold winter day. While I had experienced 68 below before, that day was a balmy 38 below zero, so I bundled nicely in my artic gear and went shooting; summer was just too far away and -38F was warm enough back in my youth. One of our local doctors showed up as well, with his brand new Weatherby in preparation for a trip to Africa. For some reason he was more than willing to let me shoot it, and not being to bright, I was excited to give it a try. In those days I had not yet learned to lay my thumb along the side of the grip, but instead, tightly gripped most rifles with my thumb over the top of the pistol grip, which I soon learned, could quickly cause ones thumb to ram itself into a very cold (nearly frozen) nose. Man that hurt! Not my shoulder or cheek bone, just my nose, so I graciously thanked him for the opportunity and went back to minding my business with my little 270 Winchester....once my nose quit running and the tears froze. Thanks for the memories.
😂 Was the Dr an shoulder surgeon by chance?
No, but I do think he may have been looking for a sucker to test drive that thing.@@anthonyboatright6960
Many years ago a good friend bought a Weatherby 460 rifle, he said he got a great deal as it was only fired once. His proof was it came with a box of cartridges and only one was missing. Next time I saw him he asked if I wanted a good deal on a 460 Weatherby, only fired twice!!
Fun anecdote!
Ron, I very much enjoy your videos and especially your break down into chapters individual subjects discussed in the podcast/video thank you for your informative view on such a wide range of shooting subjects!
my man!! you know im a .243 fan boy its just too darn versatile. thanks again for another great video
I’m a math professor with a degree in physics. I also dabble in long-range target shooting. The Coriolis is a consequence of a rotating frame of reference just like the centripetal effect is. The rotation in question is the earth. Nevertheless, the parameters used are vectors. This makes the computations highly non-elementary. Honestly, for most rifle shooting, wind is a bigger problem.
As a physics professor, I approve this message.
As a student of both, I concur. I don’t shoot critters long range anyway.
I’ve always had people imagine shooting a target while sitting on a large record player. But, nobody under 40 remembers those
And as a hunter who shoots at average ranges it doesn't matter to me.
I am a neuroscientist. I have two doctorates, and just wanted to say that I’m smarter than you ;-)
Mr. Spomer,
Cannot Thank YOU enough for your great presentations.
I've learned more from them than I can remember!
So I have shot a .460 Weatherby mag in Alaska that a friend had and I wasn't knocked off my feet but it's not something I'd want to do any quick follow up shots with!
The shot was into a 55 gallon drum that was used as a burn barrel in his backyard and there was a half a wheel barrel, at least, of wet ashes that exploded out the top.
Yes I had a bit of a sore shoulder.
Don't know what the bullet weight was.
I'll stick with my 30.06,,,,
Please keep up the great work!!
😎👍🦌
The 243 is good to all ranges within it's reasonable reach. According to the specs and ballistics I would trust it on whitetail size deer out to 400-450 yards if you are accurate enough. For those of us that are mere mortals, keeping under 300 yards is better. As for expansion, I have 2 stories. The first story was from whitetail hunting in Wisconsin in 1997. The last deer I took before heading off to grad school when I couldn't hunt due to time and location issues. I was using 95 grain Remington soft points and hit the buck on the run at about 100-125 yards. Upon field dressing I saw very little damage and no signs of expansion. I had clipped the arteries on the heart so down he went. Second story is from fall 2022 in Michigan. I am now back into hunting after way too long away. I was using the same rifle now with 100 grain Federal power-shok soft points. This time it was a standing shot at 50 yards. Very different result this time. Entrance and exit wounds were obvious and quite large relative to the bullet. The bullet did a lot of damage to the internals. Bullet technology has come a long way since I was a kid in my opinion. In the 90s I recall several people I would hunt with (neighbors, family, friends) complain about everything from 243 to 280 failing to show signs of expansion. Many went to ballistic tips which at the time were relatively new and expensive for the common hunter that only goes after deer once a year. Again, I sense bullet tech has changed a lot since the 90s and I'm finding most rounds in "deer hunting" rifles will expand.
I had a similar experience with the 100 gr core loc in my .243 the first time I used it. I switched to 90 gr Sorroco and never had a problem from 30 yd to 300. This round has taken 15 deer all one shot kills.
@@walterkleban2746 While I'm looking forward to testing some 130 gr Sciroccos in my 6.5 Swede Zastava. Been stocking up on anything good in this caliber since it's not super common in the States. My next rifle will probably be the 6mm ARC. A 90 gr Scirocco in that would be the 🐈's 🐴
I have had nothing but success with Scirocco's both in .243 and 3006. I was able to make a one shot kill on a bull elk using 180 gr Scirocco in the 3006. It turned after being hit and dropped in its tracks. I have been loading 165 gr Scirocco 3006 round because they are more accurate in my rifle.
.22-250 set up with a twist fast enough to throw 75gr pills makes it a lot more versatile. Most of them are set up with barrels that max out with 55gr being spun stable, which in my book make them limited to varmints.
The 243 loaded with a good partition or bonded 100gr bullet makes a wonderful little rifle for thin skinned game and small hogs.
Documenting the history is a very good idea, especially the family heirlooms.
If you want to have a fair comparison between the 22-250 vs the 243. Try the 50 grain bullet in 22 cal. Then try the 58 grain v-max in the 243. The 243 will outperform the 22-350 in every category. Both are great varmint cartridges but the 58 grain v-max in hand loads is faster and flatter at distance. The 243 win is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. But once again accuracy is still the most important recipe for a clean kill.
I run a custom 22-250AI i chambered. Amazing round right between the standard 22-250n and .243. Less recoil than a 243 and no doughnutting in my brass. If you jump up to a 243AI thats another animal and absolutely for me is the best
@@eduffy4937I’ve shot both over the years. The 22-250 AI with a slow twist barrel 1/8-1/9 and 80 gr bullets are my favorite combination ! Many ground hogs, prairie dogs out to 1000 yds. Best shot 1245 yd prairie dog ! And many deer out to 600yds.
Thank you Ron I really enjoyed your episode today. Lotta good stuff.
Funny your viewer suggested writing down the disposition of all your guns in case something happens to you; I just did that about 3 weeks ago at my wife’s suggestion. I have a lot of guns and she’s not a gun fan so she has no clue what they are or what to do with them if something happens to me. So I listed them all by description and serial number, any history I knew of them, who they were to go to on my passing, and anything else I thought was worth mentioning. It gives us both peace of mind just in case something does happen. Good advice from that viewer and thank you Ron for passing that info along, it’s definitely something to think about. Love your channel, keep doing what you’re doing and God bless. 👍
Agreed; also placed a copy in our Will with instructions.
Smart
I really think the Coriolis effect is more of a concern in battleship gunnery where the range might be 20+ miles or so.
If I’m not mistaken, Phill’s guide rifle was/is a 30-06. He also stopped a charging bear with a 9mm a few years back.
Good video. I have both. I brought them in the 70s. Both are great. In recent years the 250 has become expensive to fire.
Ron, great series of questions and answers.
With regards to Weatherby, I am missing 3 of the original Weatherby Magnums which are (224, 416, & 460). However, I worked for Bill Wiseman for years maki g rifle barrels. I have shot all of them and many other standard and wildcat cartridges. A rifle with the appropriate weight for the cartridge, balance and ergonomic fit stock will be more manageable. When looking a felt recoil, there are two different effects going on. 1. Pure recoil measured in Ft Lbs. The other is Speed at which it comes at you. My 378 is a 26” barrel with no brake. It is a fast recoil, but manageable off the sticks or standing. The bench is a different story. The 460 is brutal. Highly recommend a brake and recoil reducer. My suggestion is get a 404 JEFFERY, 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, or 458 Winchester Magnum. World of difference between recoil. I do agree with the comment on the 340 Weatherby Magnum. In a proper weighted rifle it is an outstanding cartridge.
Spot on with chose the right bullet and put it in the right place. My grandson shot his 1st deer with a 22-250 with 60 grain Nosler Partition Bullets. The same day my son shot a deer with a 257 Weatherby Magnum. When we were processing the deer he could not believe the terminal damage and size of wound channel, and size of exit hole from the 22-250. You could almost stick fist thru him. Both deer were taken with broadside heart shots.
7mm-08 is used quite a bit in the UK and ammo is available. Mainland Europe the 7x64 is pretty much the main 7mm cartridge as its not military like 7x57, and has a good fast twist rate to handle heavier bullets for use on boar - which are now the main game animal across much of Europe.
And now that places like France no longer ban military calibres, the 308 is pretty much the go to calibre for the vast majority of European hunting, although 30-06 is also very popular. In UK we have a few boar but not many. 243 Win is probably 25% of the market, 270 and 308 make up a good chunk of the rest with the 6.5, 7mm and others all making up the rest.
Interesting video as usual. As a French viewer of your channel and a passionate hunter and shooter : I don't know for the rest of Europe (Federico seems Italian) but for sure we can find ammo and rifles chambered in 7mm08 in France ! It isn't the most widepsread caliber but it's easy to lay hand on ammo and rifle in any gunstore out here ! By the way, my go-to hunting rifle is a 243 : varmint, foxes, boars and roe deers !
Wow! As a wounded game tracker, I couldn’t agree more with your and P.O. Ackley’s statements. Almost all of the deer I attempt to recover with my tracking dogs are a result of poor bullet placement. As I’ve commented before on your recommendation against head and neck shots, a few inches can make a huge difference in the outcome, regardless of caliber. Those shots have way too small margin of error, and leave wounds that lead to a slow miserable death to ever consider ethical. I do see a lot of smaller calibers due to predominantly being used by youth hunters, which generally still falls on poor placement. Regardless of caliber however, if it’s through the vitals it is efficient and effective. I enjoy turning a bad situation into a joyous occasion. On average I take more deer with a knife per year than most hunters will shoot in a lifetime. I’ve had experience with most every imaginable situation involving recovering a wounded deer possible during the past 40 years, and witnessed the effects of all caliber/wound combinations, baying/dispatching, hidden under banks/holes, drown and sunken, on and on, it’s been a true blessing to share all those experiences with hunters.
So it has to be a really good shot to put the deer right down?
@@MrLong6 most hunters know the term "deer accurate" you have to hit vitals like the heart or lungs for a quick ethical kill vs hitting a major organ like the liver for a shot that will kill a deer but will take a long time. I would rather see a double lung pass through shot with a .243 than a gut shot with a .300 win mag
Proper aim or more accurately not aiming properly is likely the leading cause of your services being needed.
I I started out bow hunting almost fifty years ago with a old recurve bow. 15 yards was pretty much the limit with that hand me down bow. It was drilled into my head by the guy who gave it to me to take my time and be certain of the shot or don't take it. I still bow hunt more than rifle hunt because I enjoy the stealth aspect of getting close to within about thirty yards which is my personal hunting limit distance even though my modern bow is dead accurate out to the sixty yards I have room to practice in the yard. I aim small and miss small.
That same mindset carries over into rifle hunting, I'll take my time and pass if I'm not absolutely sure I can make it a one shot kill and drop the animals within a few yards. I normally use my ar loaded with either federal fusions or usually hand loaded speer gold dot 62g bonded soft points. Both are great rounds if you hit lungs or heart and I try to cause damage to both. I passed a shot at a really great 10 point buck, big body for a central Texas buck because I just couldn't get the shot I trusted. My neighbors son got him the next day, he still gives me a hard time about that lol.
I don't want to call a tracker because I screwed up or because that deer moved a few inches in the time it took me to pull the trigger as happened to me a couple years ago with a twenty yard bow shot, thankfully she turned towards me almost in place in that same split second and I still got her but it was close. I see people on the local bow hunting group page every year who have to call out someone with a dog because they lost the blood trail after a couple hundred yards, that's purely a bad shot or shooting too far out and not allowing room for the deer to move which they can drop to jumping position in I think .14 seconds when the arrow is within about ten feet of them. I might be ocd about it and over limiting myself but I can live with that, a lost wounded animal suffering I can't as easily.
Love these podcasts, thanks.
In regards to the 30-30 vs. .243..
I shot my first mule deer with a winchester. 243 with 100 gr. at 40 yards. It was a 2x3, not the biggest deer, probably 175-200 lbs. It dropped where it was shot, didn't twitch or flail, and was dead before I could walk said 40 yards. Shot placement is what truly matters more so than caliber and projectile shape or velocity. As long as your using a sufficient load, within that loads range (per kinetic energy or velocity), and most importantly your TRUE abilities and confidence.
Great video. Really enjoy your videos. Thank you.
For the 30-30, don't forget about that ballistic tip from Hornady. Out to 200 or 250, which is further than I usually shoot, it does a great job and I prefer to hunt with it more than my bolts.
Great advice about keeping firearms documented. Ihave most of mine done and need to add a couple. I believe P. O. Ackley and Vernon Speer were lifelong buddies. I think they were born a month apart and died a month apart but I would have to look the year up again. I know the firearm and ammo industry lost 2 of the best.
I have fired the 460 Wetherby a number of times. This one has a ported barrel (built in brake). It’s recoil, despite the brake, is something to respect for sure. The muzzle blast is even more significant. Blows light items off the shooting bench etc. Lovey caliber you don’t get excited about shooting multiple times in a short period of time. 😅
Another note is the Light loads are also good for heavy cast bullets
The last 5 deer 🦌 I’ve shot have been taken with a .22-250 with a 50 grain bullet…. I take this rifle with me because my young daughter hunts with me and It’s her rifle and I chose this round for multiple reasons snd recoil being a real concern…. Maybe this season she will finally take a deer with the ole Model 77 Ruger…. I have been looking to get her a Mark V Weatherby Varmintmaster in .22-250 as well… I really enjoy your channel Ron…. Keep on doing what your doing….. God Bless
Well Ron, you sure did do a good job explaining the Coriolis effect. Once one understands the earth turning, and what direction, the concept is easier to grasp. I get it that far. Where things get a little hairy though, is the math to compute it's effects at differing latitudes. Hmm...I can see I'll have to wait for more scientists to write into your show! Thanks!
Concerning your question about the .460 Weatherby magnum, I have a friend in Germany who purchased one many years ago. He fired it once. And sold it.
Ron you are a super 👌 guy... I enjoy your videos 📹 You keep up with modern ballistics very well 👍 for an older fella... I read 90% of it too. But I tend to go back to what I know being afield. Placement is key 🔑 I like that you mention it regularly. Old School rounds like 3030 and 45/70 are superb under 200 yards for 90% of game 🎮 👌... of course the latter carries more energy. Just saying you need to mention a little more old school 🏫 thinking for the old school rounds 3030 being a decent brush caliber, can't be forgotten 👍😎 Carry on
Hi Ron,
My attempt to simplify the „Coriolis Effect” explanation - a “Coriolis force” will occur only if the object is changing its radius to the axis of rotation - in our case this is the distance to the Nord-South axis.
The direction and magnitude of that force, and whether it should be accounted or consider negligible is a different story.
Good advice again Ron...
First off love your work, haven't seen a 7-08 by Merkel, but Sauer S100 Atacama, Cherokee and Ceratehc and Steys Arms SM12 and CLII you can order by the Brand representative in 7-08, the ammo is hard to get if you don't know a gun store owner.
Love to see a 7x64 Comparison recoil especially
Ron, a few years back I purchased a CZ 455 in a 22 WMR. The ammo that shoots the best is CCI 22 FMJ. The Norma also shoots very well. In addition to brass issues, I suspect the bullet points may be the issue. All ammo with shoot under 1/2” MOA for 10 shot group. This is a bull barrel rifle with a 4-16X target Scope.
However, the CZ 455 in a 22 LR will group into the 1/10 and 0’s it favors Federal Gold Medal over Norma and Eley Match.
Sorry about the equations in the earlier video. Couldn't help myself. Anywhooo ... your latest statement is on point. Centrifugal and Coriolis 'forces' are not real in that you can't point to a force which causes the effect. That is why it is better to call them an "effect" and not a "force". Definitions aside, they are real effects and stem from the fact we live in a rotating coordinate system. Once the bullet leaves the barrel of the firearm the bullet is no longer in the rotating coordinate system but rather in its own non-rotating system. The two systems are 'accelerating' relative to each other. The centrifugal effect is a correction to the radially downward force of gravity resulting in a small decrease in the effective gravitational pull. The Coriolis effect is a small horizontal deflection of a free projectile. To give some scope of the deflection, in the 1914 sea battle of the Falkand Islands, there is tall tale going around about British naval gun sights being set up for battle in the northern hemisphere were the deflection is to the right while in the southern hemisphere the deflection is to the left. Turns out 1914 naval gun control ignored the Coriolis effect as far as the historians can determine. I ran some numbers years back and the deflection is on the order of 300 yards to the left for a projectile fired at 2600 ft/s at 37 degrees above the horizontal assuming no air drag. I've seen reports on the ranges being 15,000 to 16,500 yards. Yikes. Turns out that the Coriolis effect is too small to be considered in naval gunfire of 1914 given all the other other possible issues: knowing range to target, wind at various altitudes, air density, temperature, movement of ships at sea, etc. The failure of the British at Falkands and later at Jutland in WW1 lay squarely on the shoulders of the British naval brass. .
That's a very nice urn on your desk .
Ron for President
The company I worked for used to have a Stopping Rifle Clinic teaching people how to handle the recoil of larger bored rifles and to prepare them for dangerous game around the world. A couple years Weatherby would send us rifles and ammunition to use. The .460 is indeed a beast but it seemed mostly because the rifles were lighter than the heavier double rifles we shot. I am very recoil sensitive and am only good for a few shots per day that are flinch free with anything bigger than .375 H&H so one shot with it was enough. The muzzle blast is drastic as well.
I used to spend lots of time at a private range, a membership range, that had no shortage of shooters headed out for dangerous and or large game. I was testing custom built rifles, loads etc. Shooting from the bench is not a pleasant experience after awhile when shooting the magnum .30 caliber and up rifles. The .375 H&H, .458 W. M. the .470 and up Nitro Expresses were tolerable. But those .378 and .460 Weatherby magnums and their accompanying muzzle blasts were nasty. Birds fell to earth and flopped around in a daze if they were overhead when those rifles fired.
7mm-08 is available in France although obviously not as readily as the ubiquitous and cheap 308, and mostly for hunting (unlike the latter which offers a variety of match grade and practice ammo for target shooters on top of the hunting cartridges). 7x64 is very popular among hunters too.
Got my first fallow yesterday with the 243. Boo yer🎉
Many years ago when I had recently graduated with an BS degree in Engineering Physics, I found myself in an Artillery Fire Direction training class (after which I served in VietNam practicing this art), and when we got to a form where we enter the direction of fire and extract a correction which is direction dependent, I raised a comment that this was a correction for the coriolis effect, which it was and in this instance the reason for the effect is that our entire frame of reference including both our field piece and the target are located on the surface of the earth which is rotating like a spinning basketball. The classic physics problem to evaluate is a train postulated to be travelling a certain direction at a certain speed and knowing the mass of the train we can calculate the lateral force it exerts on the track. If not constrained the train will appear to travel along a curve rather than a straight line because the earth is rotating beneath us. It does not depend on air drag, it is simple physics. Our instructor was not interested in this, his point of view was that this was just how we were supposed to calculate our firing solution. I quickly realized that most people do not need to know this much.
I had a 7-08 Stayer and live in the UK. I did have to order it as its a none standard cartridge. A really interesting round but I thought it ran out of steam at about 600 yards.
G'day from the sticks of Aus, you're a man after my own heart, I've put my shoulder out & you're soothing my pain, I've passed my knowledge to those that are interested, I can have an ear, thought & yarn until the cow's come home & a warming snort 'round the cam'fire, enjoy the vids, Aussie Vet Vik
🍻👍😊😂
Thanks Vik!
👊
I think some of those reduced loads they recommend using some kind of batting between the powder and the bullet To keep the powder against the primer.
Hello Ron, here is a simple analogy of Coriolis. But first we need to define two types of acceleration. On something spinning you have centripetal acceleration (ie turning left and feeling like you being pulled right) the second is the tangential acceleration (ie: normal acceleration if you were going in a straight line) which happens when some spins up(rpm increase) or slows down(rpm decrease). Basically leaning forward or back ward like on a city bus. Now on something spinning you can get both at the same time. If something is spinning up or slowing down (like a merry go round speeding up). If it's steady rpm you only get centripetal acceleration. One more thing that must be understood is that on a spinning disc, the further away you are from the center of rotation the faster you go.(ie: twice the distance, twice the speed) So the analogy, Coriolis acceleration is the acceleration something feels when its velocity (tangential) changes as result of the change in distance to the center of rotation. (If you're on Merry go round, and it's spinning at a constant speed, if you walk from the edge to the center, you tangential speed changes. The rate of change of that speed is Coriolis acceleration. Hope this helps.
Explaining things ain't your thing
Can you draw me a picture of what you stated?
My first experience of a 22-250 was a man was harvesting a big steer about 750-800 lbs.that he raised for beef...man stood about 30 ft. away from the steer and as the steer turned to look straight at the rifle the guy shot straight between the eyes and the steer dropped immediately straight down without a single flinch... granted it was at very close range but you have to consider the bullet was a tiny 22 cal...
Most guys butcher with a .22 long rifle. A .22-250 is more than enough.
We use a 22lr to do that, been doing so for decades.
I have shot thousands of full grown beef with a 22 long rifle. They drop immediately
@Lesley Boeder One day (this is a true story), a friend asked me to help him butcher 4 pigs and to bring my 44. Four shots into the brain cage, four slit throats, all went well till the last pig. He got up and started walking around. 👻 I was asked to shoot the pig again. So I aimed, hesitated, and hesitated some more, finally setting the gun down and asking, "Where do you shoot a dead pig to kill it?" Neither one of us could come up with an answer.
I'll bet you have a few ghost steer tales, too. 😉
In my younger days, while working in a slaughterhouse, a full grown bull got loose and I witnessed my co-worker drop him as he charged. It seemed like an eternity while he waited for a close in shot between the eyes with the 22LR. The bull dropped and slid on the floor, his head coming to rest at the guy's feet. Amazing shot placement and trust in his ability. Of course, he also had his own custom kill business during his off hours, always 22LR because it does less damage to the carcass. Shot placement is king.
My buddy has a 460, and I've shot it several times. The recoil is heavy and brisk as anyone would imagine, but it's not horrible to shoot. His Weatherby is also scoped and has never nipped either one of us. I own a CZ Safari in 458, and although there is a noticeable difference in felt recoil, it's not as great as one would think !!!
Good information.
Thank you!!!!
7mm is a great caliber for hand loaders. There's such a massive range of weight grain and designs you can do just about anything within that one caliber.
Ron i personally think the 243 it can shoot a 55 grain bullet all the way to a 100 grain bullet at some really fast speed.thanks great show .its appreciated
Most of the time Ron I shoot around 1 to 150 years here in the southeast were in wooded and heavy bust country @ times it's even closer like 50yards I've even shot under that, but there in the southern part of the state I can stretch it out a bit and get some long shots in but only when I find some land & the owner lets me shoot on it I can target pratice a 1k shots
The right bullet in the right place is the most important thing in clean efficient kills! My banker asked me in the 80s why I’m using a 270 WBY for hunting elk. My answer was I’m a firm believer that it really doesn’t matter the caliber as much as using a heavy constructed bullet and put it in the right place. I made a huge mistake selling that rifle it wasn’t brutal to shoot and was accurate and deadly. Then they came out with this bullet called the Barnes X bullet and I believe that rifle with the140 X bullets would handle business with any of North American game including Brown bears. But bears would have me carrying a bear rifle when I know they are around and or on the menu. Great video Ron.
I watched a long range shooter vid a while back. They shot somewhere around 600-800yds in east to west and west to east. It is noticeable at those short of ranges.
years ago had the 460 Weatherby, it did hurt after 3 or 4 shots, my 30-378 custom recoil was not bad my old 458 and 375 still hurt
I believe they had a Kestrel at one time that helped calculate the Coriolis as long as you pointed the top in the direction of line of fire. I kind of got out of L.D. shooting... hopefully some one else...Can chime in... As Ron says 😉
I have experimented with light loads with a 7mm Rem Mag. Using 120 to 140 grain bullets with IMR 4350 and IMR 4895. I will practice with 30 to 50 rounds at a range session. About the same recoil as a .308 Winchester.
7 08 will become very popular in the UK soon with copper bullets becoming the feature and and awsome calibre and choice it is
Coriolis effect is the effect of the earths rotation on the (in this case) flight of the boolit’s path from east to west as the boolit will be a micro second faster that it is if you shoot west to east. Think of it as if you were shooting a target from a truck moving in the direction of your target. now reverse it by driving away from the target. It also effects the boolit’s path as it travels north and south. and causes a ever so slight effect on the boolit as it travels left to right and right to left if you were shooting from the moving truck. As slight and minute as it is, when shooting 2000 yards or more, the earths rotation effects boolit flight.
243 for the win 🏆
I hate that round so many better options
@Boomstick McNugget did I hurt your lil feelings with that comment
@Boomstick McNugget dont get in your feeling snowflake thats for female's but you must be one cuz you cant handle more the a 243
@UCvznNKY4refK06WGvyTjb2Q 🤣 rather than acting like triggered snowflake. Why not just say why you hate it. 🤣
@@joshp8395 now we got another 243 fanboy and our comments real original copying my snowflake comment good to know you cant think for yourself
Centrifugal force has nothing to do with Coriolis effect because gravity cancels it out. But you did have it correct about drift caused by rotation of the Earth.
I own a Sauer 7mm-08 and have a variety of Norma weights up,to 160 grain Tip Strike so rifle from Germany and the ammo made in Sweden. Can’t believe they would restrict only to US markets.
Ron, Had an idea about long range shooting. Maybe you should talk to a range instructor from Ft. Sill about long range and Coriolis Effect in practical terms. They might be able to explain things where most folks can understand.
I concur with your findings on the 243.
I've killed whitetail deer with just about everything, but in the last few years I've hunted exclusively with a 243 most killed under 100 yards with various 100-grain PSP most dropped in their tracks with devastating results to the front should I almost always take a high shoulder shot.
But if I have to shoot one right behind the shoulder it normally liquefies the lungs and they don't go far.
I always shoot them behind the shoulders in the chest and it always liquefies the lungs and destroys the heart if I hit it. 243 is hard to beat, a lot of black bear have been taken with as well.
@@stephenwest798 oh yeah I shot a big doe this year right behind the shoulder only because there was a tree in the way and I couldn't hit the shoulder where I normally shoot but she only went maybe 30 yards just turned her lungs into jelly
Looks like the best use for a u-tube award!😂
Speaking of recoil. I shot a 50 BMG the other day at the range and it makes quite a shock wave . 670 grain bullet pushed by 250 grains of powder .
I have to count for it, because I shoot extremely long range my riffel is a Savage 338LM in a MDT LSS chasse
the last buck i shot was with a 243 40 yards winchester 100 grain . Dropped the buck in wisconsin
I have wrote bullet manufacturers to see at what velocity you can get reliable bullet expansion. I was hunting with a 7mm TCU cartridge in a Contender pistol. It figured out to be about 165 yards. I did however smoke a coyote at pretty close to 200.
I tend to agree with your Weatherby writer the 378 WM was designed for Texas heart shots on Dinosaurs!
loved the closing comment, had me laughing
PGM Precision make the Ultima Ratio Sniper Rifle in 7mm-08, and Steyr make their newest versions of the Scout and Elite 08 in that caliber too, and I've also seen a Semi-Auto Only FN FAL rechambered for it in France.
The 7mm-08 is very popular in France and Austria.
I would love to hunt in Austria and or France for that matter!
7mm 08 is nonexistant in Romania, only 7x64 is popular here
7x64mm Brenneke is popular everywhere since the 1920s especially in countries where military calibers like the 308, 30-06 and 8x57 IS are forbidden.
My first experience with a .243 was at an outdoor range getting ready for deer hunting season...I was prepping my scope on my savage 110 in 7 mag. and had the pleasure of trying out someone's .243...I have to say the .243 was far louder than I expected but the recoil was much less than my 7 mag. I thought it to be the .243 was a good choice for whitetail but my trusted 7 mag. for not just the whitetail but also mule deer and larger game varieties as I always prefer the 175 gr. Remington ammo to do my bidding...luv it...
Ron, I have used the loading data for cast bullets from cast bullet manuals, primarily Lyman, but others as well for reduced loads for jacketed bullets. That said, you don't want to use the very lightest loads, but go for loads that have something like at least 1200 fps.
I love them both
There are dozens of calibers out there. Pick the one that you have confidence in. Alot of it is in your head. I have been at the range one day and couldn't hit sh.t.The next day I couldn't miss. Shot placement is key no matter what the caliber is.
I run a Howa 1500 7mm08, no issues finding brass nor loaded ammo. Tikka also got it so if Sweden is outside EU many. more the dealers in countries that adjust what caliber thats available. had a hard time to get my 300wsm last year, everyone makes them but here it was only tikka that was possible to get.
Bring on all the cartridges that have 8mm rem mag as parent case!
I built a 7 S.T.W. when Layne first brought it out. It is truly the hammer of Thor! It is very accurate. But I find, when hunting, I try to get as close as possible. The longest shot I made on elk was 500 yards. The stw thumped it down with no questions asked.
the 8mm phased plasma rifle in the 60 watt range will top them all.
The 7-08 rifles are usually not available in Europe because the ammo is really rare to find. European manufacturers chamber their guns also in 7mm-08, but I think the whole production goes to the US market. The 7x64 is widely used though.
The vertical deviation is due to the Eötvös effect, which is due to the centrifugal force,
To understand the Coriolis effect, your best bet is to look up a video explaining a "Foucault pendulum." Or maybe take a trip to a museum and see one in person; if your proximity to one allows so. They are a fairly popular display in museums/universities. They are a great visual example of the Coriolis effect in action. You can throw all kinds of examples and math at it. But a simple model that shows the effect in action is going to be the best way to get a running understanding of it.
There was a time when the British army decided they needed to compensate for the Coriolis effect so they rifled some of their Lee Enfield rifle barrels with a right hand twist and some with a left hand twist, depending on whether they were to be issued in the northern hemisphere or the southern hemisphere.
Gunwerks has a good video on Coriolis Effect, simply put, once the bullet is in flight the earth rotates out from under the projectile. Firing east to west bullets hit lower, west to east the bullets hit higher. North and south are affected left and right accordingly as well.
Correct
Seems the east and west would have to depend on the latitude. The earth is spinning west to east much faster at the equator than at the poles.
Hay Ron what do you think about the wssm line of cartridges in my opinion I love them from my experience I have had grate luck
If you are out on a rough sea sit or stand in the middle of the ship you get a lot less rock and roll movement or motion.
I am a Weatherby fan and collector but I do not have them all by a long shot. I like Mark V's mainly but some of the new Vanguards shoot pretty good. My favorite so far is the .378 Weatherby for big game it is a hoss.
My son shot two large whitetails with a .243 handload containing 95 gr. Hornady interlocks. 60 yds for a big doe and 30 yds for a nice buck. The damage was pretty intense. He recovered 2 bullets both perfectly expanded.
For long range shooting in North America coriolis effect can be over come with a left hand twist.
It may be possible the 7mm08 isn't found in Europe and the 7x57 is because the 7x57 also fits the .275 Rigby which seems popular.
Ron, great point regarding the 22-250 v. 243. I had been in the market for a deer rifle for the last 2 season, but wasn't sure what I wanted. I borrowed a buddies 30-30 and killed 3 deer with it. Dropped all 3 - no tracking. 100 yd shots. So I ask my buddy if I can buy the gun. He politely declines, understandable, but that really upset my wife. She said 'that gun is magic, you don't miss, you drop deer in their tracks". She really was upset that he wouldn't sell it. I had to remind her that David killed Goliath with a slingshot and rock. As in retail, "Location, Location, Location".
G'day, I suspect a "bigger/more powerfull" bullet compensates more for poorer shot placement.
As for Coriolis, Think of riding a Mary Go Round and trying th throw a ball at various targets placed around the ride. The throw changes as your location on the ride changes.
The Coriolis effect also differs from the cardinal direction you are facing when you take a shot
I would think so, but many sources I reference insist Coriolis effect always drifts bullet to the right in northern hemisphere. Seems to me if you were shooting from north to south they'd drift left, or East. What am I not comprehending?
little things can make a big difference in ballistics