An interesting video. My father was the driver of the first A30 Challenger to land in Normandy in July 1944. It was destroyed in battle on August 3rd 1944 - the worst day in the history of 5 RTR.
Another great video, sir. Would love to see something, in the future, regarding British armored cars. Seems like, outside of the Germans, Allied and even Italian ACs were relatively lightly gunned. Yet, at the end, the British developed the Saladin (which I believe ended getting upgunned from the 76 mm to a 90 mm).
Missed this one first time around somehow,but enjoyed it immensely.Strange how Avenger disappeared at wars end.Always thought it a very good looking vehicle
This is very interesting as I always thought the A30 Challenger was a very unique looking vehicle but I had little information on it. Thanks for sharing this tutorial.
The Railway width restrictions would have to be the worst limitation any designer had to work around. Result? Ignore the restrictions, create the world’s best, Centurion.
We plan to cover topics ranging from pre-ww2 to ww2, post ww2, the cold war, and even modern. We won't be limited only to British vehicles either. So stay tuned for more! FV 101 Scorpion - added to our pipeline. ✌️
Nice work , rare photos , but still looking for a bit on the "charioteer" , version with the 20 pdr. gun, over the 17'pdr. I heard the Jordanian army had a few, but that's it. This would have been the same 20 pdr. as used in early Centurion tanks.
And the Bishop, an SPG, was cobbled together in such a hurry that the elevation of the 25pdr. was so poor that pits had to be dug for the Bishop to reverse into to allow a decent range for the gun - !
Hm, if memory serves, this remarkable vehicle was last seen in use in the.....wait for it......1990s in the Middle East where it found employ with the respective factions.
One wonders as to the graft that must have taken place.... 1000 challenger 17pdr would have served all requirements in France and likely soldiered on till 1950..
The Avenger seems to be a very balanced tank destroyer. It's probably not as fast as the M18 Hellcat, but it's certainly faster than the M10 and M36. It's definitely more armored than the M18 but probably not as much as the M10 and M36. It improves upon Archer in every respect. I think I would consider it the pinnacle of tank destroyer design in WW2. Mobile, adequately armored, and lots of useful features such as the collapsible turret roof.
somewhere they may be? or as a reef? they didnt come back tot he UK and didnt end up on german ranges. there are not even disposal records of them. they simply vanish
I seem to recall seeing one of these A30SP Avengers along time ago on a TV news program and wondering what it was. It did not have a gun in it and was being used for observation by the Israelis on the Golan heights or Lebanese border if I remember correctly. So this may explain why there's no record of there fait. As Israel was our enemy in the late 1940s early 50s(still are imo) but some high up in the British establishment would have been sympathetic to their cause. Or perhaps they just pilfered them, if the British army were not using them anymore, with a bribe here or there maybe.
I'd appreciate if you included some relevant pictures of the documents you gather your information from, say when you mention the A40 commodore it would be nice to see some text that discusses it other than just less-relevant pictures.
i could do, i think il add that to the web, or twitter page with links, that way i can keep the flow of the video and look but then show the direct links to the pages themselves. good feeback ty
Some bloke very randomly decided to don all his gas gear, which includes an outer jacket with apparently spotted camo which would have the effect of messing with the contrast on film to give him a ghostly or Photoshopped appearance (which I guess you could call an “unintended intended side effect, given what spotted camo is supposed to do in the first place). As there’s absolutely no other reason to do so, and as he’d no doubt be fully aware of how it’d appear on camera, I’m chalking it up to a sense of humor.
Actually I just noticed in the photo everyone is wearing gas protection, he’s just more extensively layered up with more heavy duty gear. Maybe he just wanted to be extra sure.
I don't know the date of the 6-pounder gun mounted on Valentine with a gun shield (do you have any info?), but I have a suspicion that it is of a different date than the 25-pounder. The appearance of the 25-pounder looks identical (at least at rough glance) to the production Archer, e.g. the exit louvres at the back of the engine compartment, stowage, etc. That would seem to push back the 25-pounder to 1944 or later. The General Staff had already decided that a 17-pounder gun tank should be created before deciding about SPs in 1942. There was a meeting in July '42 about whether to build 17-pounder SPs, with someone (I think from the RAC) suggesting that if they were going to have 17-pounder tanks maybe the army didn't need SPs but someone else's POV was "well the RA will be there so they'd better have something which can keep up". Already by September '42 they were planning to order large number of M10s and hoped/expected it would be possible to convert them to the 17-pounder.
@@edfrancis712 Hi Ed, would LOVE it if you could! I have some files I could send you that might be of interest. The July meeting notes I have are from Extract from Minutes of 6th Meeting of the General Staff Committee on Weapons And Equipment, 7/8/42, WO 32/18890. I also have a file copied from the National Archives about the transfer of anti-tank role & equipment from the RA to RAC. How can I send you a message with DL links?
I keep coming back to the old adage that if something “looks right”, it probably is! It took the advent of the Centurion, to prove how true this saying was. All allied tanks up till then were dismal excuses for a tank.
"Doo-hickory thing" Ah. A brearh of fresh air lol. Seriouy; i enjoy your producti okns immensely. The subjects are off beat and interesting, the research meticulous, ... and the demivery perfect. Carry On the good work Sah!
Avenger lacks the persicopes, but the viewing hatch has a slide panel which can be adjusted from left to right which puts a protective screen and eyepeices over the port to allow viewing safe from splash. in the up postion he can errect a pastic screen from elements etc. we have a pic which will go on the blog from inside his compartment however its in a tall but narrow format and looked terrible videowise. hopefully folks might have more of the scallywag in service tho as those images are very rare.
I've always read that the A30 Challenger was a flawed tank, but no specific defects are ever mentioned. Is this a myth, or is there some basis to the claim that it was defective.
Avengers might have been expended in poorly documented german impression mine clearing operations.. as the number and servicability of german vehicles was dubious...
very Mysterious what happened maybe Aliens or More likely they got scrapped and somebody lost the paperwork or maybe someone took them home and there's a fleet of tanks sitting in a barn somewhere.
An interesting video. My father was the driver of the first A30 Challenger to land in Normandy in July 1944. It was destroyed in battle on August 3rd 1944 - the worst day in the history of 5 RTR.
Another great video, sir. Would love to see something, in the future, regarding British armored cars. Seems like, outside of the Germans, Allied and even Italian ACs were relatively lightly gunned. Yet, at the end, the British developed the Saladin (which I believe ended getting upgunned from the 76 mm to a 90 mm).
Isn't the Saladin like an 80's design though?
Great video. My eyes popped at the reference to a "55 Pounder" gun of 114mm calibre, as I've never even heard of this weapon!!!
Missed this one first time around somehow,but enjoyed it immensely.Strange how Avenger disappeared at wars end.Always thought it a very good looking vehicle
This is very interesting as I always thought the A30 Challenger was a very unique looking vehicle but I had little information on it. Thanks for sharing this tutorial.
The Railway width restrictions would have to be the worst limitation any designer had to work around. Result? Ignore the restrictions, create the world’s best, Centurion.
indeed
Nice work once again.
Do you limit your research to some timeframe or types of vehicles? FV 101 Scorpion family would be interesting to hear about.
We plan to cover topics ranging from pre-ww2 to ww2, post ww2, the cold war, and even modern. We won't be limited only to British vehicles either. So stay tuned for more!
FV 101 Scorpion - added to our pipeline. ✌️
@@armouredarchives8867 Awesome, many thanks!
A great account. Keep up the excellent work my fine fellow.
Awesome, another great video - Thank you.
Thank you for your feedback James, stay tuned for more!
What is going on with the shadowy figure at 11:40
Nice work , rare photos , but still looking for a bit on the "charioteer" , version with the 20 pdr. gun, over the 17'pdr.
I heard the Jordanian army had a few, but that's it.
This would have been the same 20 pdr. as used in early Centurion tanks.
we have a vid on charioteer, shes there :)
And the Bishop, an SPG, was cobbled together in such a hurry that the elevation of the 25pdr. was so poor that pits had to be dug for the Bishop to reverse into to allow a decent range for the gun - !
Kick ass looking tanks! and SP
Perhaps there's an old warehouse full of Avengers somewhere. Remember the German pensioner who had a Panther in his cellar ?
one day il find where they went
Brilliant stuff. Love your style of speaking and describing. No faff and nice evocative expressiveness without being flowery.
I love that the canvas roof extension has 10 mms of armor in WoT :)
Hm, if memory serves, this remarkable vehicle was last seen in use in the.....wait for it......1990s in the Middle East where it found employ with the respective factions.
i like the cut of your jib, sailor - and of course, you will be doing a video of the TOGs? thanks!
We will indeed but if you like TOGs then the books by Andrew Hills are essentail reading
@@edfrancis712 cheers - will pick them up!
Good content, working my way through them
Glad you like them!
Avenger the tank destroyer with a built in sunroof.
One wonders as to the graft that must have taken place.... 1000 challenger 17pdr would have served all requirements in France and likely soldiered on till 1950..
Great video, very informative.
The Avenger seems to be a very balanced tank destroyer. It's probably not as fast as the M18 Hellcat, but it's certainly faster than the M10 and M36. It's definitely more armored than the M18 but probably not as much as the M10 and M36. It improves upon Archer in every respect. I think I would consider it the pinnacle of tank destroyer design in WW2. Mobile, adequately armored, and lots of useful features such as the collapsible turret roof.
yup, and one day i might find where they all vanished too as well
@@armouredarchives8867 I eagerly await any discovery of their existence! By any chance do you write for the Tank Encyclopedia?
@@jsplicer9 a long time ago yes, did a few bits n bob back in the day
You forgot to mention "good looking"
So somewhere in Germany is a basement full of Avengers?
somewhere they may be? or as a reef? they didnt come back tot he UK and didnt end up on german ranges. there are not even disposal records of them. they simply vanish
@@edfrancis712 this sounds like a case for - the avengers! [steed and peel, that is ;)]
I seem to recall seeing one of these A30SP Avengers along time ago on a TV news program and wondering what it was. It did not have a gun in it and was being used for observation by the Israelis on the Golan heights or Lebanese border if I remember correctly. So this may explain why there's no record of there fait. As Israel was our enemy in the late 1940s early 50s(still are imo) but some high up in the British establishment would have been sympathetic to their cause. Or perhaps they just pilfered them, if the British army were not using them anymore, with a bribe here or there maybe.
I'd appreciate if you included some relevant pictures of the documents you gather your information from, say when you mention the A40 commodore it would be nice to see some text that discusses it other than just less-relevant pictures.
i could do, i think il add that to the web, or twitter page with links, that way i can keep the flow of the video and look but then show the direct links to the pages themselves. good feeback ty
Is that a zombie soldier @11:30?
indeed :P
Some bloke very randomly decided to don all his gas gear, which includes an outer jacket with apparently spotted camo which would have the effect of messing with the contrast on film to give him a ghostly or Photoshopped appearance (which I guess you could call an “unintended intended side effect, given what spotted camo is supposed to do in the first place). As there’s absolutely no other reason to do so, and as he’d no doubt be fully aware of how it’d appear on camera, I’m chalking it up to a sense of humor.
Actually I just noticed in the photo everyone is wearing gas protection, he’s just more extensively layered up with more heavy duty gear. Maybe he just wanted to be extra sure.
I thought that was a wooden cutout of a soldier for target practice or something.
I don't know the date of the 6-pounder gun mounted on Valentine with a gun shield (do you have any info?), but I have a suspicion that it is of a different date than the 25-pounder. The appearance of the 25-pounder looks identical (at least at rough glance) to the production Archer, e.g. the exit louvres at the back of the engine compartment, stowage, etc. That would seem to push back the 25-pounder to 1944 or later.
The General Staff had already decided that a 17-pounder gun tank should be created before deciding about SPs in 1942. There was a meeting in July '42 about whether to build 17-pounder SPs, with someone (I think from the RAC) suggesting that if they were going to have 17-pounder tanks maybe the army didn't need SPs but someone else's POV was "well the RA will be there so they'd better have something which can keep up". Already by September '42 they were planning to order large number of M10s and hoped/expected it would be possible to convert them to the 17-pounder.
gotta be good 1943 at the are arguing over valentine on vanguard while debating the A33 and so on . I've got the files let em root em out for u chris
@@edfrancis712 Hi Ed, would LOVE it if you could! I have some files I could send you that might be of interest. The July meeting notes I have are from Extract from Minutes of 6th Meeting of the General Staff Committee on Weapons And Equipment, 7/8/42, WO 32/18890. I also have a file copied from the National Archives about the transfer of anti-tank role & equipment from the RA to RAC. How can I send you a message with DL links?
could they have been sold and transported to Sweden?
We (the Swedes) imported many tanks from the battlefield after ww2
I keep coming back to the old adage that if something “looks right”, it probably is! It took the advent of the Centurion, to prove how true this saying was. All allied tanks up till then were dismal excuses for a tank.
"Doo-hickory thing" Ah. A brearh of fresh air lol. Seriouy; i enjoy your producti okns immensely. The subjects are off beat and interesting, the research meticulous, ... and the demivery perfect. Carry On the good work Sah!
thanks, means a lot
Got anything about the vision of the driver on the avenger?
Because if he closes his viewing hatch he hassn't got any other way to see
Avenger lacks the persicopes, but the viewing hatch has a slide panel which can be adjusted from left to right which puts a protective screen and eyepeices over the port to allow viewing safe from splash. in the up postion he can errect a pastic screen from elements etc. we have a pic which will go on the blog from inside his compartment however its in a tall but narrow format and looked terrible videowise. hopefully folks might have more of the scallywag in service tho as those images are very rare.
I have a feeling they are sitting at the bottom of a river or lake.
I've always read that the A30 Challenger was a flawed tank, but no specific defects are ever mentioned. Is this a myth, or is there some basis to the claim that it was defective.
Avengers might have been expended in poorly documented german impression mine clearing operations.. as the number and servicability of german vehicles was dubious...
Is nobody gonna address that thing standing behind the vehicle at 11:25? Wtf is that? Look like an edited photo from a creepypasta.
Target dummy 🤣
very Mysterious what happened maybe Aliens or More likely they got scrapped and somebody lost the paperwork or maybe someone took them home and there's a fleet of tanks sitting in a barn somewhere.
probly...tho its odd, no paper trail at all, not a single sheet anywhere