Steve Gerber's Fight with Marvel over Howard the Duck and his Pants
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This video looks at Steve Gerber's career and writing techniques. He was an accomplished writer that helped elevate mainstream superhero stories. His lasting contribution to the world is the character of Howard the Duck. But once created, his surprise popularity led Gerber to a protracted battle against his employer, Marvel Comics, over the rights. It involved funding a lawsuit with an indie comic, Destroyer Duck, along with the help of Jack Kirby. And the story involves Gerber using his talents as a writer, to surreptitiously and sneakily take back Howard through a technicality. - Zábava
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Biden: "No, I don't think I will."
Yes! Finally you got a sponsor!! Well deserved!
Lol, no.
It is so familiar and yet so out of place here. To a million subscribers! Forward, ho!
Awesome! Way to get a sponsor!
Gerber was a mad genius. And like all mad geniuses, he drove the people who actually knew him crazy.
Finally....Someone talks about Howard the Duck and not just the 80's movie.
Ha I was waiting for the movie reference 🦆🤷
Or that funny duck man in guardians of the galaxy
Good point
It was an incredible 33 issues.
@@JunkyardKid aaaaaaand an entire history of tie-ins, crossovers, team ups, reboots and more lol
I was at the SanDiegoCon banquet in 1986 when Steve Gerber tottered into the hall late. He'd just been to the premiere of HOWARD THE DUCK. The poor bastard looked absolutely sick and devastated, as if he'd just been forced to watch his child violated. That was my first inkling the movie wasn't gonna help the comics industry look cool.
Apparently Gerber helped write the script, so I think he knew what he was getting into
@@tripdefect87 to play devils advocate many people write a screenplay/script with the intention of it being one thing and then becoming another
Great Episode! Gerber was like the proto-Morrison, just producing some really surreal and crazy stuff when that kind of thing was more accidental than anything else. Was really sad when he passed.
Gerber reminds me of Alan Moore in a lot of ways.
@@robvangessel3766 Tangentially: Gerber's book NEVADA for Vertigo was under-read, underrated, and underappreciated. People should seek it out.
@@keithpl5438 Agreed!
Sure, the weird stuff is where he made his mark, but his run on Defenders was damned good writing. Consistently more entertaining than Avengers or even Fantastic Four.
I loved his Defenders run. It's way underrated.
@@JoeJoe-lq6bd The chemistry among the characters worked incredibly well, despite the fact that the four of them were just thrown together in a random awkward way. It really good reading.
I am convinced that Thor: Ragnarok took some inspiration from Gerber's Defenders run.
@@alandoane9168 I don't really remember many details, just that it was really good reading.
@@jimmy.r.minnelli If you think about the eventual team that forms in Ragnarok, it's very close to Gerber's Defenders.
I remember when Howard the duck first hit the scene and then when Howard the duck # 1 came into the comic book store that I worked for. The first issue sold out immediately and started to resell for $20
I knew that the local news stand would be getting it in 3 months. Most people who collected comics weren't aware of this news stand and I scooped up 25 copies and was able to sell them 1 at a time over the next year. (I was also given 1 copy that I immediately sold because of circumstances I didn't find wholesome or fair. Even in the collector's world of comics there are bad people)
Bad but it seems you made some profit
I was just using an opportunity that most comic collectors weren't aware of and I almost always used my profits to buy more comics.
I used to view comics like the stock market, buy low sell high and utilize the market fever while it lasts.
I used to tell my son that in most cases a high dollar item will become affordable if you wait (otherwise snap it up fast if you see a trend on the horizon, having future vision is tricky. And some people don't realize that wanting something can be more powerful than HAVING something.
I tend to now agree with the philosophy of not letting your possessions possess you, hard to do in a consumer society.)
I sort of lived through much of this as I am 53 and I started reading comics when I was like 9 or 10 (1977/78). Destroyer Duck was the coolest thing. We felt like we were really helping "the Cause" by buying it.
Artists creating art to defend their art is awesome! I would have been proud to purchase as many copies as I could have afforded.
Mead Packer, Booster Cogburn and Woblina Strangelegs were all on the Godcorp payroll. But they hadn't reckoned on a burly duck who'd made a vow to his dying friend: "Rest easy, squirt. They'll pay."
I'm 56. I had a bunch of Defenders, Man-thing, and HTD comics, including #1. I sold them awhile ago, and sorta miss them.
@@heavyearly2232 I feel your pain.
@Thomas R. Piner Me too!
Steve Gerber walked so grant Morison could run
Steve Gerber was the only person who could write Howard the Duck properly.
He was the only one that knew how to write Man-Thing too
I think Mark Russel (DC's Prez, Flinstones, and Snagglepuss) could do a decent job. But even then, Gerber is a pretty hard person to try and top
Chip Zdarsky writes him well
Alan Moore did Swamp Thing
I doubt that
I like Gerber, but one important aspect of the Destroyer Duck controversy was that Jack Kirby wasn't properly compensated for his work.
The irony.
Story of Jack's life, really
@@RickReasonnz Is Jack ever gonna get paid what he was owed which by my count is/should be millions, he should've been set for life after the 60s
Man, he died without ever getting the full rights to his character, and now Marvel is owned by the company that thought his character looked too close to their own duck character. Im glad he paved they way for stuff like this in comics though, a real visionary.
Donald and Howard buddy movie ?
Only if they include the Duck clone joke.
@@turtleanton6539 there’s gotta be a way we can get Daffy, and Duckman in there.
@@dkres82 And Darkwing Duck in there. Imagine Howard, Donald, Daffy, Duckman, and Darkwing as a team, that'll be really awesome.
@@retrofan4963 I’m down but let’s add Duckula too.
Thank you Chris for this video, I been wanting a Steve Gerber video for awhile. He is underrated in the names of great comic writers and his Man Thing run was excellent.
Pimip
Pp p po I)8
I came across your channel the other week with the bob kane video. Since then i have watched nothing but your vidoes, i cant get enough!
Chris, adoramos tus vídeos que no solo exploran las historias si no las cuestiones detrás de la industria.
Gotta hand it to Gerber. He was playing chess while they were playing checkers.
Is this your first sponsor Chris, I don't remember, congrats, you deserve all the money!!!
Was thinking the same thing
I'm writing this from memory, so the details might be a bit off. But Gerber claimed that "Giant Sized Man-Thing" really wasn't intentional. The story he told was that literally no one caught the double meaning until he met a new neighbor, mentioned he wrote comics, and then showed her one of the comics he wrote (GSMT, obviously). At that, she made a comment like, "oh, you write *those* types of comics", at which point Gerber considered the title and realized what she meant.
Could it be true? I dunno. But his response to the double meaning of "Doctor Bong" was usually "oh, no, I have no idea what you mean, wink, wink". That he actually acknowledged the GSMT double meaning, and had a story about how he realized it, does make it somewhat plausible, at least. And, honestly, it's not like it was the only "Giant Sized" comic Marvel was putting out; it was fairly common for them to do "Giant Sized" versions of other titles (Giant Sized X-Men #1 probably being the most famous), so it's certainly possible someone said "okay, let's do a Giant Sized version of Man-Thing without a second thought.
On the other hand, Steve Gerber being Steve Gerber, him realizing the implications of the title all along is also completely believable, so... take it as you will.
Thanks for this. I queried him (Chris) on this exact thing in a comment above. I believe you're correct, that it was not intentional...and I'm not sure if Gerber even had a say in it, since page count isn't determined by the writer anyway.
It's kind of cute if it was unintentional. Weird little creative naïvete.
Gerber was one of a kind. And he’ll, I was ten when Doctor Bing came out, and even *I* knew it was a pun :)
The ending where it was emphasized that Steve Gerber wasn’t interested in Tv or animation, he was interested in comic books. This is important; comic books are a medium unto themselves and more people need to understand that.
Part of what made me stop being interested in comics, was them making themselves look more like their movie versions.
Amen... I hate when people make the implication that comics best achievement is getting turned into animation or a movie. I understand that financially, but artistically it's just another form of media that it has it's pros and cons. I liked the definition that Alan Moore gave once: comics aren't soundless, motionless movies; that's a very limiting, and negative way to examine comics. Nobody says stuff like that about regular books. So comics are a interesting halfway between ordinary books and motion pictures, were you have the visual spectacle but you also need to read and use your imagination to make the story alive, you are not a passive viewer: can read at your own pace - not spending the time the director of the movie want you to experience each scene.
@@Shinmsl I feel like comic books are a medium that deserve respect but now there still seen as niche by most and beloved by fewer people then ever.
Exactly. The Marvel and DC movies (with the possible exception of 1978 Superman) never fully caught the elements of what drew me into reading comic books. I just plain like the panel to panel medium of the art form. (I admit a weakness for the 1966 Marvel Superheroes TV show. The fact they used artwork right out the books was very cool.)
@@markmarderosian9657 It was pretty sweet
It was very funny to see raid shadow legends ad on this channel, but even though we all know about the quality of this product, I'm so happy that Chris gets such sponsorships, I'm really hoping he can make a living out of his CZcams channel, he truly deserves that!
The ad played for probably a good 10 seconds before I realized it wasn't another fake out.
Patrons get ad free versions of the episode a little early.
Years of excellent work and content must be rewarded. It's just fair.
Loved Howard the Duck. He's the reason I got into comics & learned to draw. Also loved how he's an editorial vehicle. We could use more comics like his today.
Great overview. Howard the Duck was a favorite series of mine. I thought it was filled with action, satire and political commentary done in a unique and creative way! Gerber could write the hell out of an entertaining story!
Chris, you're looking great, and your show's looking even better. Watching this was a blast, and your channel has been a close ally through some hard times. Thank you for your content and see you next time
I don't really read comics but I love learning about them through your vids, thanks dawg!
Man-Thing #5 The Night of the Laughing Dead was among my favorite comics of this period.
Steve Gerber and Mike Ploog's storytelling collaboration was excellent.
I even made my non-comic reader friend read this story.
Excellent!
This was really informative. Before this video? I was strongly under the belief that Gerber was totally wronged by "Evil MegaCorp. Marvel", but, after watching this video? Im unsure if anybody was in the wrong. It seems that Steve had his wires-crossed, and was making demands from an erroneous starting-point.
I enjoyed this content a lot, and: I've also got some new titles to check out aswell!
If anybody want to read some other good 'ol Gerber recommendations, then try "Man Thing". Those are great. And the issues illustrated by the mighty Mike Ploog are just beautiful to look at. (Ploog studied under Eisner, and it shows).
Cheers Chris,
And Happy New Year to all the Comics Tropes Fans
"LiL'JpD."
I should read more Man-Thing. Well, most people should.
@@bluespaceman7937 Look for "Screenplay of the Living Dead Man" aka "The Infernal Man-Thing", the brilliant sequel to "Song-Cry of the Living Dead Man", which was finally published several years after Gerber died because the art by Kevin Nowlan was too detailed to be printed properly within Marvel's budget using the technology available during Steve's lifetime.
As a preteen I absolutely adored Steve Gerber's work . Loved it . The Defenders were MY team in the early 1970's and I still have and occasionally reread those crazy stories !
I am so happy that you upload weekly videos again. I hope the best for your channel!
7:06 I think I should mention that Gerber apparently claimed that Dr Bong one was unintentional. He did say that people lately explained him other meanings for bong.
As if
I first read Gerber when he wrote the Ultraverse title Sludge. Unfortunately it was canceled when Malibu was bought out by Marvel and all the Ultraverse characters have been in some type of legal limbo......
Howard asked the tough questions such as why Red Sonja wore a metal bikini. It's something every fan always wondered but Howard the Duck was the only one to ask it.
Was Gerber's (legendary) deadline lateness a product of writer's block, procrastination or perfectionism? Did he (or his colleagues) ever offer a perspective? Great episode as always! Thank you, Chris!
I've had several brilliant friends drop out of Phd programs or ruin academic careers due to being slaves to perfection. Meanwhile, I handed in my mediocre B- work and collected my Masters degree.
One possibility that you don't mention is ADHD. I'm not saying he had it, just that this is one thing that can cause deadline lateness.
That's a great question, I hope someone has an answer.
In one of the issues of Howard The Duck he touches on his inability to meet deadlines. It was a truly weird issue.
His friend David Anthony Kraft said to me that Steve would write himself into a corner. Steve mentioned how he didn't plot most things lo n g term, though he and Mary had an extended outline for Omega. DAK said Steve would brain storm occasionally with his creative friends to get the most inspired solution in a relatively timely fashion. #8 of HTD is an example where Don McGregor and DAK threw in assassination ideas. GS Defenders credits the dinner gang with help. He was pretty good about crediting his friends and fought for Msry's Omega byline.
P.S. Mad Genius Associates was Jim Salicrup and DAK's 'business' - adapted to crank out those buttons. They and Mary would eat take out and watch Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman episodes while turning in side business after hours.This was all before my time, but confirmed by my friends, who were there. I didn't get to speak with Steve; I got into most of his work after he died- of the same disease that killed my also- Virgo father about the same time.
Steve is my favorite comics writer. 😍 His scripting is regularly phenomenal.- Cecil Disharoon
I know he's had a long, respected career, but every time I see Roy Thomas all I can think of is House Roy, hapless lackey to Funky Flashman.
I love me some petty Jack Kirby.
Great work as always! The Howard the Duck saga is something I’ve been fascinated by but never knew all the ins and outs that you put here. Really enjoyed learning about this.
Pretty sure Steve Orlando just brought back Omega The Unknown into the Marvel canon through the recent Darkhold mini-event
I was so proud to see Howard fighting in the Battle of Earth alongside the Avengers, the army of Asgard, the sorcerers, the Ravagers, the army of Wakanda, and the guardians of the galaxy.
Yep, The Nexus was introduced in Man-thing. Nexus is mentioned in WandaVision.
My friends pointed out to me a while ago that how badly I want in MCU version of a Howard the Duck movie is directly proportional to how drunk I am.
If I'm slightly tipsy, I will express mild interest in seeing it. If I'm completely borderline blackout drunk I will start screaming, "Imma read you line for line the fan script that I wrote!!!"
Whenever I get to that point, my friends always say "Ah shit. Steve's Howard-the-Duck drunk. Better cut him off."
Great fix for the focus issue.....just move closer to the camera !! 😂😂😂
Old comics drama sounds so much like old wrestling drama. Like, "The WWF screwed over the wrestler so hard that they had a massive falling out with everyone hating everyone..... and then a few years later he was rehired by the WWE and went on to have several title runs..... before it all happened again...."
I think a great episode would be about the floating/sliding timeline that Marvel and DC uses. As always, great episode Chris!
Gerber wrote an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where Riker is in a fake alternate future where he has a child that was very similar to a two-part episode of G.I. Joe with Shipwreck.
Chris, this is one of those videos of yours that really reminds me what a wonderful job you do. So many Gerber retrospectives concentrate on his "funny" work, they include the issues of non-Howard material he worked on that parody something else or are intended as satire and that's about it. They have a vision of Gerber as a funny guy. However you showed Gerbers more serious work, his commentaries on violence, his use of "real world villainy" (as he called it) in Defenders and Captain America, etc. Truly one of the best and more complete looks at Gerber, flaws and all
Thank you so much for all of your videos. I hope you keep doing them for many years to come. Your love of the form radiates out of each one and reminds me why I love comics as much as I do. They're very much the highlight of my week sometimes. Thanks for all you do.
I only recently found and subscribed to your channel (around 2-3 weeks ago) but I've already binged nearly all your content. Truly great stuff, thank you for all the amazing work you do Chris! You are very appreciated
Love you Chris. Best comic book youtuber of all time. You can feel the passion and love in every video. Life has been a bit messy recently and quite stressful but it all goes away when I watch your videos. Thanks for being you Chris.
Great vid, I'm so happy you got a sponsor. Hopefully, more to come!
Yeahh!!!! It is the first time I feel glad to see a sponsor in a video. Congratulations, Chris.
I'm not sure if it falls within there purview of this channel but it would be kinda neat to see an episode about Pogo
Hey man, your comic book industry deep dives are always appreciated and very interesting. 👍🏻
It only just occurred to me that the fact that Gerber established Man-Thing defending the universe by just mindlessly fighting whoever showed up is kind of a great commentary on who the proactive characters are in superhero comics (hint: it's not the heroes).
Phenomenal video! I always love hearing behind the scenes stuff regarding Howard the Duck
I find it kind of funny that Steve had all these legal issues, when his brother is a lawyer and was my professor in Brooklyn Law School. You'd think he'd give the stuff to his brother to look over, at least. Michael Gerber is literally a contract attorney.
He got Marvel to settle his lawsuit against them for undisclosed damages, so he obviously wasn't completely misguided in taking them to court.
Interesting bit of information.
Thanks for posting this! Steve was my all time favorite comic writer!
I saw Howard the Duck as a kid (and it was as mentioned meant for kids), and I liked it very much (except from the guitar playing at the end).
Great video! I'm loving the extra output
Howard the Duck has long been a favorite of mine. That Gerber run is very important to me.
I bought the masterwork of Howard the Duck in Comixology for less than a dollar, so this video is the perfect companion
Same!
Genuinely happy to see that you’re sponsored
Thanks Chris for another great video
Great video! Thanks!!!
Honestly Chris I’m so happy to see you taking ads, especially from such big companies like RSL and MagicSpoon!! I have absolutely no issue watching or skipping through an ad if it means you’re more properly compensated for your hard work. Congrats and thanks for the great videos!! :)
Glad to see that sponsors are coming through for you
Great video, Chris! Super interesting! Thanks.
i've been waiting for this video since i first started watching you.
Awesome video. I love Howard the Duck. I was around when it was new and on the shelves and enjoyed seeing his covers and ads each time, but didn't give it much appreciation beyond his appearance with Spider-Man in a Team-Up. It wasn't until getting a stack of them out if a 50c box decades later that I realized how cool he and his writers were. Artists too. After that I learned a little bit about the behind the scenes connected to him in some letters page/editorial from some non-big-two publisher. Thanks for connecting the dots for me.
I haven't really sat down and read comics and in least 3 years. Things just got too wild and my attention drifted elsewhere. I greatly appreciate your content and your deep dives into the stories behind the stories. I love putting on one of your videos while doing chores.
Commenting and liking to bless you on the algorithm, keep up the good work
Steve Gerber has long been a favorite of mine. Howard the Duck is very important to me.
You do the best reviews about comic artists I idolise from my childhood, In-depth but uncontrived. I share your love for the medium . Thank you !!
Hey Chris! Have you ever read any of Paul Chadwick’s Concrete comics? I think it’s something you’d really like and I think you’re likely already a fan. I’d like to suggest some comics and comic creators to be in future episodes. Along with Chadwick’s Concrete, David Lapham’s Stray Bullets and James Kochalka’s Sketchbook Diaries are some comics that I think would make fun episodes. Evan Dorkin’s Milk and Cheese is another comic to add to the list. I’ll still watch and be a fan of your show even if you never talk about those comics. And I’m glad you got a sponsor.
Chadwick's THE WORLD BELOW (Dark Horse) was really wild and weird but never got to finish because readers were far more "superheroes only" than today, believe it or not
@@MarsHottentot I’ve got a few issues of The World Below. I wasn’t aware that Paul Chadwick didn’t finish the story he wanted to tell. I’m going to go digging through long comic boxes and hope I can find my copies of The World Below. And maybe some Concrete comics while I’m at it.
Best comic channel. So much great, researched content and a great presenter. Just love this.
this was one of your best videos, loved it !!
First sponsor? Good one, hope you can bring more and make this into your job as you been trying for a long time now 🙂
Hey Chris! Thanks for the content! 10/10 as always!
Steve Gerber was an amazing writer, even as a kid I knew that he was pushing the boundaries of comics. Some of his later work that’s really good that you need to check out is Nevada & Hard Time. Of course his ManThing run is the best!
Excellent as always!!!!
thanks for a great video. Always so fascinating
I drew the Marvel half of that 1996 crossover. Gerber and I became friendly after that, and let me in on his Howard plans. Yes, any Howards appearing in Marvel Comics after that issue of SPIDER-MAN TEAM-UP were clones. The "real" Howard would dye his feathers black and begin using the name Leonard. This meant that Gerber could maintain control and ownership of *his* duck. Steve and I were going to collaborate on the adventures of "Leonard The Duck", which would have become a dream come true for me. But things didn't work out. I never did get the full story about how and why the plan dissolved. But I'll always be grateful to Tom Brevoort for hiring me to draw that one story, and to Steve for including me in his Duck Scheme.
This review of Howard the Duck left me well-informed on the various heads of the hydra.
Love ya, man. You cover comics in tons of various ways and with enthusiasm and smarts. With great knowledge comes great responsibility! :)
In my view, Gereber's most underrated work was the cartoon Thundarr The Barbarian. That Saturday Morning cartoon started off with being in a post-apocalypse.
I always felt it ironic that Disney tried to get Marvel to change Howard The Duck when Howard and Donald were completely different characters ...and then decades later buy Marvel. At least Gerber gets credit for creating Howard when Howard shows up in the MCU. In any case, as much I love the Howard character and even Man-Thing... if you work for a company, ad you have a contract, any work you do for that company, while the company will give you credit for creating or helping create something, they own that work.
And Howard the duck in the MCU wore pants. Disney had the last laugh
Yet Disney didn't do shit with Howard the Duck in MCU. Only few cameos here and there. Even in the series "What If...", Howard unfortunately only has brief appearances. The fact that MCU didn't do anything with Howard the Duck is the main reason to me why MCU is lame. Like seriously what's stopping the MCU to do a Howard the Duck animated series and a new Howard the Duck movie?
Thanks for the video, good info!
Sponsors! Congtatulations Chris!
You should do a short on his limited series The Foolkiller. Amazing story with crap art. And never collected or reprinted.
Wow kinda mind blowing that one of the writers on the G1 transformers series happened to be the guy credited with creating Howard the duck
I heard that Steve Gerber and Frank Miller were going to pitch their version of Superman to DC...god that would've been pretty cool if DC accepted it
Gerber's run on Man Thing often gets overlooked. I always loved the concept of the Nexus of Realities. Chris Claremont tied back into Gerber's Man Thing with his villain Despayer who appeared in his runs on Marvel Team Up and Uncanny X-Men.
Never read enough Marvel Team Up either.
Howard the Duck comic books by Steve Gerber is often overlooked as well.
Very well done video. Great job and thank you.
I love love love Bill Mantlo's version of Howard the Duck!
I enjoyed Steve Gerber's work. He stood out from all of his contemporaries back when I was reading during his time. He should have been included in any financial windfalls for his creation.
Wonderful episode as usual, thank you.
OMG! Those two panels at 5.35 are my clearest, cleanest memory from my comic book reading days as a kid. I even remember the time and place I purchased the comic they were in, and I still have an issue of it (not the original one I bought) somewhere in the house. I sold all of my comics many years ago, save that issue of The Defenders and, oddly enough, my Howard The Duck books.
Defenders 22. One of my favorites as well.
@@mysterymac38 It was decades ahead of its time, like a comic book from the future. It left a profound impression on me.
My first contact with Howard the Duck was through the Marvel DC Amalgam universe. There existed a Lobo the Duck.
Great content, Chris.
Thanks for doing this video! Steve Gerber was one of my favorite writers in this CHAOTIC era of Marvel and the only comic I’ve ever subscribed to! His writing always weird with bizarre humor and unexpected things tossed in wasn’t predictable or in my opinion always unusual! Howard’ last run with Steve and excellent art by Phil Winslade had Howard having a chat with God in the last tale! Gerber is/was one of a kind and if people get it or not? Whatever,it is what it is! All of his stuff is recommended reading! Thanks again!
Another great video!
Awesome work as always It would like to see you cover the Bucky O'Hare comics, eventually.
Hard Time is a gem. My favorite Gerber book.
Really enjoyed this, thanks.
I love your videos! My favourite comic channel no question :)
Another Amazing Episode!