Juliana Han Teaches "Chopin" Scales
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2021
- Ever wonder what’s so special about C major? You’re not alone- Chopin himself taught other scales first. Join Juliana Han for a look at why B major fits the hand so much better, with long and short fingers taking their natural position.
Watch the full lesson and others from Juliana Han on tonebase!
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This hits the nail EXACTLY on the head. Whenever I have the opportunity to teach piano to real beginners, before they learn anything about reading music, I start with the B major scale, for all the reasons that Juliana says, plus more. I can teach them about how to move their hands over the keyboard and their fingers on the keys, trying to get them into good habits before they learn bad ones. They can learn to play multiple octaves, hands together, both parallel and in opposing directions, and they will start out their piano experience loving to play scales, before they learn anything at all about musical notation! Unlike my own experience: I was taught the traditional way, beginning with C major, which is indeed the hardest. It taught me to be afraid of black keys; and when I learned to read music, I was terrified of playing in B major for a long time because of the accidentals in the written score. But the keyboard was constructed with black keys precisely because this fits the human hand and allows the player to locate himself on the keyboard solely by touch. (I actually play most of the time with my eyes closed!) Once I discovered how comfortable it is to play using ALL the black keys, I then overcame my fear of reading music written in these keys.
@Mia Li I guess it's a little bit like learning a new language with an unfamiliar writing system. Like English speakers learning Chinese, or Chinese speakers learning English. If you concentrate on only the spoken language (say, using some Pinyin) and only attack the writing seriously after you can speak fairly well, learning to read will be much easier than if you try to do both at the same time. Your knowledge of what to expect when you get to an unfamiliar character or written word will be much more helpful, if you can already speak easily.
Remember, too, that even pieces (except for the most elementary beginners' pieces) in C major are full of accidentals. Look at any moderately difficult Chopin composition in C major and you'll see what I mean. You always have to deal with the "black specks" in the end. Of course, you'll have to look closely at the score when you begin to learn a piece, to make sure you have the notes right. But the more you practice and the more music you play, the easier it becomes to read the music, no matter what the key signature.
I think Horowitz was once asked what was the most difficult piano piece to play - he said it was tie between Liszt's Feux Follets and the C-major scale. :-)
Its cute AND accurate
@Mazzel Tov obviously a joke, although i would argue that c major is the hardest scale of the major/minor s.
@@xqf868 c major is probably most difficult to sound “clean” while others may be more difficult with fingering or coordination
LOVE IT!!! It's right on! (See my comment above.)
Well I can easily play the C major scale, but "Feux Follets" it's a bit more difficult... 😱😱😂
Wow, this makes horrendously good sense.
Horrendously, abominably, viciously, vilely, grotesquely, murderously good sense
Marvelous suits me ☺
She sounds life a really good teacher.
you bet ! been playing pro for 50 years plus and picked up a bunch! (do you mean"Like")?
@@markrobinson8254 Yes, yes. I did. Thanks.
Eigeldinger book on "Chopin as Teacher" tells this and more, it is actually very interesting. He also noted when a student had problems with speed, "practice diminished up and down an get them even". But from there to play a piece there's still a stretch to go (sorry for the pun).
❤
What do you mean, “practice diminished”. Diminished what? Arpeggios or scales? Is it the 3 diminished seventh chords in arpeggios?
Ms. Han is truly mesmerizing. So friendly and engaging, non-intimidating. Btw, if I’m not mistaken, Liszt had a twist on this, teaching E first - which dips a toe in the water of the “non-clumping” scales… but, personally, I’ve always preferred to start students off with B, Db and Gb, as she (Chopin) does - but have only just now learned that that’s what Chopin did! Thanks, Juliana!
@Mazzel Tov what a strong opinion…
@Mazzel Tov I don't understand your hostility at all.
@Mazzel Tov Yikes. I can tell you're not a fun person to be around
@@totallyfake2852 Why? Because Mazzel Tov is straight in your face?Or maybe because you're Totally Fake.
I'm not a teacher, but a player and I remembered that's the way my teacher taught me, very interesting!
Excellent teaching! Thank you for the video
From a players perspective C major isnt the easiest, that makes sense. But from a composers perspective it totally is.
I am a guitarist and self taught pop piano, yes middle C, G and F are my favorite go to keys. This video is fascinating and changed my perspective. Thank you and I am now a subscriber.
Interesting. I learned it all third-hand and as a "fun fact" - to start on Db (index finger on Db, exploring the piano by pointing at the first of each group of black keys) but the B major part adds so much more context to this!
Wonderful video! Thank you for sharing.
@코카콜벳cccb01닷com 댓글 감사합니다. 좋은 하루 되세요.
You're pulling the blinds from my eyes. Thank you so much!
All my favorite keys, because as we all know here they fit our hands wonderfully.
EXCELLENT! Thanks VERY much.
You make my life easier after watching your video. 👍
Thank you
Interesting concept!
Excellent advice.
This is pretty cool
I stumbled onto clumping on my own when working out problems with pieces. Very useful
Great lesson. I just figured out that all of the black keys in the last movement of Mendelssohn Op. 6 actually help you to play it faster.
Totally agree (!) Thise keys are so much more clearly marked out. Its much harder to improvise in C (for me) because it can be difficult to see where you are. I actually learned B first after C when i first started (self taught. ..)
This is just brilliant. Kudos!
😇
fair enough, however i believe one of the most difficult triad arpeggios is F#.
Good point. B may be the easiest scale to finger, but not the easiest key to play scale tone triads or 7th chords up and down the scale. Another issue is reading music notation on the staff, which really has almost no relation to the keyboard. Then when it comes to instruments such as the trumpet or clarinet, it's an entirely different deal altogether. Guitar is so different they have developed their own system of notation which is different from that for keyboard.
but it´s not arpeggios this particular video is about, is it
@@wei2190sd well scales and arpeggios are related. thus the point implied is that there may be more to say about what is best for the student.
@@Johnwilkinsonofficial may you suggest scale withs the best balance of fingering scales and arpeggios?
@@newtonlkh D, A, E, and B major. almost all minor keys are fairly agreeable i am tempted to only single out eb minor as having an arpeggio as difficult as F# major.
Fantastic
I like the key of A. As a composer it works well as a high and low key, and A minor is a very solemn key, and I also frequently modulate to F# minor, which is one of my favorite minor keys.
Love the clump scales!
My favorite scales is the blues hexatonic scale
I am super impressed after checking her bio! How often do you see a pianist with a JD from Harvard Law School, a biochemistry degree from Harvard, and AND degree from Julliard? WOW!
wow genius!!!
I understand the arguement, it makes sense - and who am I to argue with Chopin or Juliana Han! However, I first learnt the piano when I as about 12 years old, starting with the scale of C major. I never thought, "Wow, this is difficult, my fingers are different lengths" - I simply played it, easily as I recall, without thinking and then went on to learn all the other scales in order.
I was also taught starting with C maj scale. As I start to teach though I have chosen to incorporate these scales earlyer because they encourage a natural shape from the early stages and they demystify the black keys which can be quite a mental block for some students when they have only worked with the white keys of C major. The other keys also encourage much more natural thumb crossings.
Don’t get me wrong there’s nothing wrong with starting with C. these are just a couple of reasons why I choose to start elsewhere with students.
You probably weren’t playing it evenly though
The reason why musicians will talk about C major being difficult is because of the level of performance that they are trying to achieve. To be able to play a scale at all, C major is probably the easiest, but to play a scale with perfect evenness in sound and rhythm, the structure of our hands start to present challenges. I do agree that conceptually it is way easier to teach a C major scale.
As spanish speaker, the Seymour Bersntein's classes for me are excellent cause he speakes slowly and clearly. No so that
This was super interesting, thank you!
I agree with this concept. Also, to point something out...not as a critique but as a word of caution...when playing that scale from 3:45 to the end it looks her pinky is sticking up. If so, that is a sign of tension. This can be alleviated by ensuring you use the weight of your arm to depress the keys fully into the keybed, don’t push the keys down with your finger muscles.
spot on. I thaught my little brother (aged 5 at the time) the b major scale, and he never practiced, yet next couple weeks after, he played it again to perfection.. so all of those fretting with the nonsense that b major is too advanced blahbfah may just fall asleep with their no sharps or flats policy..for a long while.
好好好👏👏👏
The shape of the hands~!
I'd learn piano if she were my teacher. She makes everything simple.
There are lots of good teachers out there
Teach yourself
And Suddenly It all Makes Sense
Ofcourse it is the most difficult scale TO PLAY FAST. However for a beginner C majir is the most PLAYABLE scale also from the point of Tone/ Semitone introduction.
Right, but "tone semitone introduction" has nothing to do with music, and nothing to do with piano technique. C major is also flawed because it shapes the hand poorly and gives students bad habits in technique from the get go.
@@fink7968 Depends WHEN and HOW you introduce it- and it has to do a lot with music ( say if you play a piece with chromatic passages or you wonder why each major scale sounds the same etc)..As far as poor hand position- it is not C major scale that creates it- it is the teachers who insists on scales too soon.Scales take TIME - pupils first need to be very comfortable in 5 finger position ( measuring freely melodic 4ths and 5ths in particular).My average pupils ( who don't like practising but like playing!)take years before first scale- putting thumb under is a complicated business 😂
You see how revolutionary Chopin was in discovering piano technique? It’s 200 years later and some people STILL don’t get it…
I think this would work for someone who already knows or can read music.
But I think it'd be kind of hard introducing what sharps and flats are for a beginner.
The trick is you don't: You won't need to talk about flats or sharps. They can figure out from the fingering (long/ short fingers) and the sound (sounds like a major scale).
in her highly acclaimed, best selling method for kids,, Irina Gorin starts out with black keys and makes fabulous music. Students progress, play, express themselves, have so much fun, and they really understand how to get around the piano and perform confidently, witout ever knowing what flats,sharps, tripple cesquiflat quartertones are.. that alone speaks volumesthe world and us are not even close of coming to and end if we got no idea about note alterations (plus its easy.. sharps raise, flats lower notes, how about that for a trivial 5 word explanation)
Eyes wide open. Thank You
Visual approach is great for technic. C major is a theory foundation.
The issue is the other things that enable to playing. These are hard to conceptualize. It is a whole other art. Accomplished pianists teach students already selected for these "other things".
C major is certainly the most difficult to play in for any advanced pieces. The black keys fit the hand much better.
What I am wondering is how does this help one learn to play or read a piece of music? Whether one uses this Chopin method or starts the other way by learning the C major first?
I would say most people watching this have piano experience, so they know what Juliana is talking about, and they understand it. But for a true day one beginner, this makes no sense and/or is too complicated.
What she says is true, but beginners need something they can intuit quickly, so they can keep their momentum of learning and not get frustrated early on. For this, C major makes perfect sense. Yeah, Db major might fit the hand marginally better, but a beginner doesn't even understand the concept of a key center. You don't want to be spending the first lesson explaining what a half step and whole step is, and telling them, "Okay, now what's a whole step from Db? And then from Eb? Oh, plot twist, now go up a half step! And did I mention, you need to start on your second finger?" No. You want to be able to say, "Here's C, and there's the next C. Okay, now play all the white keys in between the two in order. Finger it 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5."
And I'm not sure of Chopin really taught C major last because of its difficulty, but I would say that a key like F major or G major is arguably way more awkward as far as the way it fits the hand.
Kind of disagree? B major is like a glove on piano… What I mean is, when you are playing the scale with both hands, your thumbs cross at the same time. Compared to a C major scale with both hands, where the right hand plays the C and F while the left hand plays the C and G notes. Find me a beginner who thinks C is easier after learning this.
Anyone knows where to find Chopin's teachings?
A wonderful book called ‘Chopin pianist and teacher’ by Jean-Jacques Eigeldinger. A very interesting read, to say the least.
@@mattdavies1126 Thanks!
@Mazzel Tov Wait, edition of what? He's a player.
i always warm up with C7alt scale. its very organic. its basically B major without the B but a C instead (but please dont teach that to the kids like this lol) (a mode of Db melodic minor)
Try mirror scales of B and E...Rudolph Ganz,,a great musician ,,,,,,,
Hmm, that fourth finger thingy also works for the B minor scale for the left hand, n'est-ce pas?
Just should clarify what is meant by long fingers (2,3,4) and short fingers (1,5).
I play guitar so it all ends up the same level of ease/difficulty. I feel a bit spoiled. ;)
If that were true there wouldn't be so many songs in E minor ;)
@@iroveashe Or A minor. Damn I love that key on the guitar
Can anyone explain why she only named the enharmonic key for F# major (Gb major) but not for Db major (C# major)? Why the inconsistency? 🤔
Both F# and Gb have the same amount of accidentals, 6 sharps and 6 flats respectively. You will almost never see C# major due to how scales are written, C# major would have the notes C# D# E# F# G# A# B# and then back to C#... so it's much easier to say Db since theres only 5 flats.
Also, the Nocturne op. 9 n. 2 was written in 3 flats. Poor Chopin had to move twice before he could finish it…
@@nandoflorestan Yes we all miss Borge.
You didn't mention what is possibly the most contentious issue in scale playing: do we pass the thumb under the hand in an ascending scale? Some makntain that this is essential, others state that in a fast tempo this simply cannot happen, especially if one has a short thumb, because in a fast scale the hand should not move laterally, as this leads to unevenness.
@Mazzel Tov Yes, I can see the logic of "thumb over" in ascending scales and arpeggios in a fast tempo. I know most of Horowitz's work, both on sound recordings and video, but had not seen video of 10/8. Having now found it, I was greatly saddened at the diminution of his performance compared to the sparkling brilliance in his "return" concert in 1965: by his own admission, he did very little work in later years - saying "I practiced all my life, why should I practice now?" One of my teachers was a first rate professional, who insisted on "passing under the thumb". Following this did me great harm!
@Mazzel Tov Sure, Michelangeli was extraordinary, and uncannily accurate, but I was rarely moved or excited by his playing. Also, he didn't produce many "colours" tonally. The most astonishing recording was one he made for the BBC, of Ravel's Gaspard. I have never heard Ondine done with such precision, yet with a glorious shimmering tone. Horowitz could do things which nobody else could - in his peak time. Listen to his performance for Franklin Delano Roosevelt (in 1942 I think). The Performance of his Carmen variations is astonishing - faster than his televised recording, and with a lot of extra notes! I love Michelangeli's recording of Rachmaninoff's fourth concerto.
@@johnschlesinger2009 Horowitz could do the things you mentioned because of a carefully prepared piano. Franz Mohr, his tuner told me personally about H.requesting to put more "lacquer" on the treble hammers etc. Many people playing H/'s piano after his death, could evoke the same sonorities. Michelangeli did not need this. Michelangeli didn't produce "colours" tonally? Really?
Don’t think about moving your hand or your thumb (not just yet anyway)...think about where your elbow is. Your elbow is the “crane operator” that gets your claw where it needs to go. Doing it this way...from your hand’s perspective the keyboard is just moving below it, so your hand can relax since it doesn’t have to do the work of jumping up and down the keyboard.
@Mazzel Tov Was there something more specific you would like to point out?
Wow just wow l. I didn't know Chopin taught C major last
yes cmajor isnt the easiest to play, but as you said at start, there's a reason why it's generally the first taught scale: because early students (especially kids) are not advanced enough to deal with sharps/flats and understand the theory behind those scales, whereas c major is easy in theory because it's all white keys, so they can practice easy scaling and fingering/crossings on that scale. and their future early beginner pieces will mostly all be in c major as well
ergonomically, Bmajor and a few others are indeed the easiest scales
Learning C major last means your student already has the fingerings pretty solid before learning a scale with no physical differences between the notes. Those black keys really help you stay oriented.
Not an issue. I always teach all my new students with this method without the staves. Just notes to indicate rhythm and fingerings.
When I learned the scales as a kid I didn't think about sharps and flats. I just learned the scales by heart, which is not that hard, considering each scale is made of just 8 notes. Visually it's even easier for, starting with B, you just think of it as explained in the video: short finger (white), long finger, long finger (black) or 1w+2b and then 1w+3b. Additionally the moment you learn the third scale or so (I can't recall when this happenend for me), you will be able to figure out the scale from the sound. When I learned about scales in theory class later and to this day I think of them more of the motion instead of the mathematical tedious work of figuring out: whole step ,whole step .. blablabla.
this is also exactly why poor performers, even adult ones, exist. Their mind and (very rarely) ears are WAY faster than their technical ability. Also, I notice theory is really cramped in especially free, poser, wannabe piano instruction.. yes training intellect is important but performance practice recquires a VERY strong INTUITION (no tíme to think on a sus7 flat nine blahblah thing on stage) and practicin for a performance is quite different than how most musicians trainin the practice room which is way too unbalanced Far easier to get the "hard" stuff (black keys) out of the way first.
Thank you for this, I almost agree with what's being said. When it comes to the left hand fingering in B Major, in my opinion the 5th finger is better here than the 4th because then there is less tension between 3rd and 4th finger, the hand is more relaxed and you'd have a start which feels comfortable with the 5th of the left and the 1st finger of the right hand.
I thought the same thing
Its interesting knowledge, but the reason we teach C major first is because its the simplest thematically not practically.
None of the scales are that hard. The order you learn them in should be about the key of the music your playing and It's easiest for young
beginners to learn the 7 degrees of the major scale as all white notes first. Very easy to remember and focus on the fingering
The question is if you need to learn the theory behind it. I learned it as is described in the video and after some scales you will be able to figure them out yourself, without doing mathematical work. More importantly you will be able to catch the correct fingering (long/ short fingers), which you won't learn from just theoretical studies.
@@Ryuuuuuk i teach it first because its all of the white keys :D
I fully agree. C major absolutely is the hardest major scale to learn, because there are no black keys to reference. You have to be extremely cognizant of the fingerings as you practice it.
Horowitz said much the same but there's nothing wrong with beginning with a slightly harder scale.
As an amateur piano player, it never ceases me to amaze me how people think some keys are "more difficult" than others. Why is this taught? As far as I am concerned, they are only different on the keyboard--- NOT "more difficult". The steps are exactly the same for every key. I use fingerings recommended by piano teachers. I practice all 12 scales major and minor, both hands, two octaves up and down. I usually start on C but it doesn't matter. I do NOT care if this is the "Correct Classical" or "Chopin Method" or not. All I know is that none are "more difficult", only different and I have to change the fingering as necessary. It works for me and I'm going to keep doing it.
I’d have to disagree, some scales fit the hand much more naturally than others. The difficulty isn’t determined by the steps as they are all the same, but rather the comfortability of the hand. Such as how Fantasia impromptu is relatively easy as the scale fits the hand nicely whilst other pieces are a little more daunting
Is throwing a grape any easier than throwing a baseball? Is throwing a curve ball with a grape any easier than throwing a curve ball with a baseball? Isn't it all the same motion? No. Clearly not. Your hand shape is different just like playing a scale on the piano. It's not about being more "difficult", although it is.
This is the classic blocking out of shapes...in other words, she hits 1-2-3 as a chord...and then sez "This is infinitely fast...now just slow it down." Ha! Applies to any passage or arpeggio.
Don't understand a thing she said, but watched the whole thing
Usually students learn the scale with with only white keys (c maj) then the scale with one black key (g maj) then 2 (d maj), 3 (a maj) etc.
This is because white keys are wider and it's easy to remember a scale that's only white keys. The point of Chopin's scales is that it's very easy to play the white keys with incorrect hand positions and develop bad habits. You don't develop the same bad habits playing on the higher and narrower black keys.
@@gavinclancy2890 your missing his point…
I love you
Wonderful teaching....... beautiful woman!
Neat stuff! Thanks. Will you be my teacher please?
There are several reasons the game Nostalgia is annoying to play using piano technique, and one of them is that it doesn't have any black keys.
Obsession with C major, yes. I blame that John Thompson guy!
Hum... I read somewhere that Chopin would start with E major. It's easy to do inverted movement in scales (because it's mirrored) wich helps with hand independence. Even so i don't belive Chopin had that many begginers to work with or pianists with no reading skills. If your student doesn't know what is a key signature, you will struggle to teach effectively this concepts.
Taking piano lessons most likely you learned C major first then G, then D Then A, on to E and so on - the sharp keys. Then you progressed to the flat keys making them out to be the ‘odd’ keys going the other way on the scale of fifths.
By the time you became intermediate running scales and arpeggios actually became more agile with the keys that had more sharps or flats in them. By the time you realized this it didn’t matter anymore because you were intermediate going onto advanced but you wondered why was you forced to start with the most difficult key?
When watching these videos I remembered my piano lessons as a kid and indeed learned it in the way described in the video, which makes me value my first teacher even more
i can't play a piano
i don't even have one in my house
i need to attend to my class this morning
why am i watching this at 1.30 am
I thought I was trash thinking C major scale is harder than most scales
I always thought C Major was the hardest scale
When I started playing around with my grandmother's piano, my instinct was to clump black keys like this. A piano teacher told me that was wrong, and told me to do all right-hand scales as t i m t i m a p and left-hand scales as a m i p a m i p. It was so hard to coordinate. Watching this I feel so vindicated!
I have a question. What’s the difference between scales and the scales you find on a fish? Are they somehow related to piano or is it just coincidence they both are the same? Also what’s a chopin?
There is no difference, none whatsoever. Chopin is simply a method some use to prepare fish for supper.
@@derinderruheliegt Especially with something so delicate as seafood, it is rather advisable to do some chopin around before settling for a particular fishmongher!
Just teach all the scales to your student in the cycle of 5ths so that your adding 1 accidental for each new scale that they learn.
Then when they play pieces they understand dominant and sub dominant modulations.
Pseudo-knowledge:by this time, the passing of the thumb was not in current use, hence start in any other key than C major!
3:22 isso está absolutamente errado, tem que ser o quinto dedo, não o quarto, por que perde a lógica de chopin nessa escala dos dedos mais compridos nas teclas pretas. compridos
B is probably the easiest.
B ,c sharp , anything with more black keys is easier and fun fact when self learning I learnt those accidentally first then c scale... I am no expert but this was nice
Sure ...Simple reason C major is easier is because there are no sharps and flat to memorise...I'll play anything in C major..but ask me to play in G sharp then its chaotic.. lol
“One expert Chopin, he agrees with me”
C’mon! what are you talking about?!?! You should rather say you agree with him.
That's why op. 10 no. 1 is horribly difficult..
What a fox
Most great works are not n C major
She is cute, wow!
No....you agree with HIM
C major is the most difficult.
C major is harder because there are no landmarks. D major is the easiest.
Deceptive title.
Chopin had a sense of sarcasm to weed out the wanna-be’s
You don't need her for this. If she can't teach...
Nothing in this video is original. Any good teacher knows that. Any good teacher would apply this information when it works for a particular student.
Clumps are for chumps.
It would be virtually impossible to teach average BEGINNING students the 3 scales listed.
They should not start with C either.
Either F G or possibly Bflat represent the correct starting point.
No reasons given : the above is true !!!
D flat Csharp minor are the best keys in the whole world.
E minor seems to be pretty good as well !
Nah, F and G major are almost as hard as C,
@@kallehed6330 I would say quite a bit harder. I hate F especially, the fourth finger on the Bb and then crossing from that is just horrendous
@@totallyfake2852 i think the b flat actually provides some comfort for the fingers, making f major slighly less terrible than c major. Imagine playing f major with b natural, that would be absolutely horrendeus, you lose all sense of place and destination. With the b flat you actually get some place to coordinate around, somewhere you can rest and assess your scale situation, without it everything would be worse, even for such a bad scale as f major
Not sure why F or Bb would be better as they both require irregular fingerings.
@@emeralddreams888 Take it from the presenter (and me) the best keys to play are Aflat Dflat E (amongst others) and as mentioned in the vid B.
The fingers work better when traversing from white keys to black to white.
For beginners such keys are difficult to learn.
So Bflat (G or F)for example are a good start and introduce the irregularites of Key signature.
To play the piano well the hand must accommodate the 'awkwardness' of the keyboard.
Imagine NOT playing the Minute waltz in Dflat.
A Chopin Ballade has runs down the keyboard on all white notes (with thirds in the run). Very difficult to play.
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