How to do Vibrato on the Violin Without a Shoulder Rest (or with one!)
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2020
- For those interested in Skype (or your favored video chat platform) lessons, email admin@murphymusicacademy.org.
My detailed, step-by-step tutorial on how to learn vibrato from the ground up!
If you have requests on any other techniques you'd like me to cover, please comment below!
For all other questions, inquiries, and insights comment below, or:
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Anyone here gets scared of their right earphone and thought it was broken?
Thanks! I actually thought there was no sound in this video and I got so confused until I put in the left earbud after reading your comment.
Yeah one of my speakers is broken so I can’t watch this on my computer which is annoying.
OBS really needs to change the default lol
@@phantasmal914dude just switch your audio to mono -_-
This is phenomenally useful. I think the special sauce in your recipe is the feeling of STRETCH and RELEASE, starting from "home position," pulling away, then springing back and touching the violin body to stop yourself. To me, finding this sense of ELASTICITY feels like a key to unlocking vibrato. Thanks so much!
I have been playing without a shoulder support for years. I live near a large university that teaches violin with a shoulder support and when I ask someone to play without it they cringe at the idea. I see a lot of their students that play very robotic and look like they are in pain. The freedom is well worth the effort. Great video’s. Heifetz
Would not let you in the room with a support.
my left year enjoyed this video
Far and away the best video on Vibrato!!!! So clear, concise and well, Brilliant.
Such an underrated channel
Working on getting those numbers up. It’s been slow but steady
Murphy Music Academy I’ll just post your “don’t need a shoulder rest” video to the sub reddit and if you get famous off it make sure to give me a shout out lol
I've never played with shoulder rest, and honestly I've never felt the need.
To do the Vibrato without it, I hold the full weight of the end of the violin with my Right-Thumb (it isn't that uncomfortable once you get it and allows you greater freedom of finger movement). 👍✨
Thank you, your videos are really usefull
Thank you for this
Thank you. Very useful.
Thank you for going through all the steps. It is a long process so probably immensely satisfying to finally achieve those separate goals along the way.
I used an arm vibrato for years. I gave up several times. I don’t recall any of my teachers being that clear about vibrato. Thank you.
You're amazing thanks so much! That was so clear and well said.
Love how you include the videos of the old masters. Fascinating!
I'd be interested in a video regarding sliding into a note and away from a note if you think that's possible.
Absolutely wonderful Murphy. I love all the advice. Everything makes so much sense. Best wishes to you and your channel.
Nayr Dinuir thanks a million!
hey there buddy!! started playing 6 months ago after 21 year break after musical school.... i do some progress and worst fu...g thing is that every single tutorial on YT is shoulderresters without any helpfull advice for me... my teacher was total oldschool zero shoulderrests etc... i am so glad i found you
Jó lenne egyszer így tudni hegedülni különösen a vàlltámla nélkül. Nagyszerű volt, még így tovább sok sok ehhez hasonló tanulságos videót kérünk. És sok sikert. És boldog július 4-ét kívánok.
Thanks again for great video. I think Perlman is in the same category of musicians, you can always recognise on his vibrato-sound. And in his case also his bow attack reveals him 😉
Omg it's been two months, our wifi got disconnected so I haven't been online for a while but thank you so much for listening to my request!! ( ´ ▽ ` ) I am so honored to be your first request video requester
Thanks very much for the request! It's been a fairly successful video!
@@MurphyMusicAcademy I am so glad to hear that! I mean I could see it too lol, keep up the good work!!
Dear Mr Murphy....I enjoy your videos very much. There is one item I would like to mention about your comments on David Oistrakh's video, playing the cadenza to Shostakovich's first violin concerto. Ever since Oistrakh had his heart attack back in 1964, he had used a shoulder pad,,,,specifically a Poehland pad (black velvet), one can see it in all his post 1964 videos. ! He is using that pad in this performance! This pad enabled Oistrakh to raise his head off of the chinrest in such a relaxed manner. I played a performance with Oistrakh's son, Igor, and asked him about this very subject and he verified this. As I am sure you know....Kogan, Heifetz, Milstein, Rabin (too many to name here) used nothing. But, all that I mention had short, stocky bodies! No need for shoulder supports! Keep up the good work....ciao.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment! I’m quite aware of this, and in fact, I also use a shoulder pad myself! I do consider there to be a difference between a pad and shoulder rest, however, as the rest anchors the violin in a particular place and angle, and a pad just helps fill up space. Carl Flesch was recommending pads for most students nearly a hundred years ago, in fact. In any case, as I said in the video, even if someone decides to use a shoulder rest, I believe the approach I lay out in the video can still be followed. Thanks again, and I’m glad you are enjoying the videos!
Hello! I noticed a much fuller, more pleasent sound from my violin without the shoulder rest, so I threw it away. (Or took it off, at least). Then, I found your videos where you confirmed my discovery, so so far I was off to a good start. Also, it was very informative on how to hold it without the shoulder rest. But, here is my problem. How do I prevent the violin from falling off my thumb when I do vibrato? If I keep the neck between my thumb and the rest of the hand I can't vibrate, and if I make space between my hand and the neck, the neck falls off my thumb. I am still at a beginner level, and vibrato is probably still a year away, but I would like to understand how to do it though. Thank you in advance for your reply! I look forward to your future videos. Cheers, Zoltán. :)
I get this question a lot, actually. When going for a wide vibrato, I pivot the thumb so the pad of the thumb is under the neck of the violin and supports it from there. From here I have the freedom to vibrate. Pivoting takes some getting used to, but after you play for a few years it becomes very natural. If you’ve only played for a year, then your hand likely still has a lot of developing to do, but as you progress, if you don’t develop bad habits, you’ll develop a lot of this stuff naturally.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy, thank you! I'll focus on hand frame for now, until my hand starts to understand whats going on. :)
Thank you for the wonderful video. Could you make another video on how to do vibrato on G string (especially high position) without a shoulder rest. I have been trying to play without a shoulder rest for several months, but vibrato on G string is quite difficult for me...
That is quite specific. I wonder if I could make it into a larger form video on the G string in general. HMMMMMM. That is usually the kind of thing I would just address in a private lesson (I do Skype lessons, if you are ever interested).
What I will say is that you will likely have to bring your elbow further forward, almost straight in front of you, and really make sure you are leveraging with your thumb. Also, if you are climbing up the G string, get used to pushing the violin into your neck a bit. I've been thinking also about a video about the dreaded 4th finger. Some of this stuff, like the thumb leveraging, would be covered in that. Thanks for the comment!
i would also like to learn this if you could make a video about it : )))))
I have also ditched the shoulder rest!
Thanks a lot for all of the videos you make. I've been using every one of your videos to learn to play without a shoulder rest, in my opinion you are the only one that explains with detail this art.
I hope your channel grows more, maybe you can try using hashtags or key words so the videos will appear to more people.
And I have a question :)
I've tried shifting to high positions (8th and above) but my problem is the thumb. I have small hands and I have tried moving my thumb to the shoulder of the instrument, but it doesn't feel stable enough.
Is there a way to do this shifts more secure?
And, how can I shift quick enough from a low position to a high one?
Again, thanks for your amazing videos. ^-^ have a great day
I do try to be as detailed as possible! I'm so glad it is helpful. I'll look into key words and hashtags. Despite my age I'm pretty boomer-tech. I kind of isolated myself for the past 10 years and focused on breaking apart (and putting back together) all things violin.
For shifting up that high, I think you are doing the right thing. For smaller hands I've found it best to leave the neck of the violin and secure the thumb onto the violin's shoulder, as you are doing. This is the only time I would recommend raising your shoulder a little to help support the violin. You don't even have to raise it that much, and you certainly don't have to clamp down. Also, make sure the violin is not falling toward your chest. If the chin has to be there to keep the instrument from falling then you need to scoot the violin back a bit. You should be able to play a 3 octave B-flat major scale (going upwards only) without touching the chin to the violin.
A for the art of shifting, I'll make a video on it.
Thanks for commenting! Have a great day too!
@@MurphyMusicAcademy Thank you! I'll practice that scale today. I will tey raising the shoulder a bit ^-^
Learning at 73.
Learning at 72!
Still alive?
Firstly, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. It is much appreciated. Right, on to the stupid question. I'm an old blacksmith with short arms and wide hands with pudgy f'ed up fingers. I've ditched the shoulder rest and find my thumb naturally wants to stick out parallel to the fingerboard. The neck rests below the thumb pad and I can produce a reasonable vibrato in this position. However, if I try a low thumb position the neck just slides off and into the afore mentioned position. I've tried all sorts of things ( including re-varnishing the neck and double sided tape on my thumb pad in the hope of developing a 'feel' for it) but the violin just slides off my thumb pad. Am I going mental here ?
Wobble is the exact sound of this kind of vibrato, it just oscillates between two notes. Oscillating between four notes will give a much smoother and non-wobbly vibrato. To be able to oscillate between four notes, the finger movement needs to arc around the main note rather than wobble between two notes.
Could you do a video more specifically on wrist vibrato? Do you learn it with the hand restricted on the bout (not just near the shoulder like you demonstrated in this video)? Do you use siding exercises?
I have done an arm vibrato for two decades and have struggled for two years to get a wrist vibrato working. I feel like the direction of the movement is quite different than the shifting type motion of the arm vibrato and I am just struggling mightily. Does the finger straighten the same way as with arm vibrato? Is there any trick to sorting out the motion and truly accelerating it?
I cap out at around 50 with four oscillations per beat and it just never gets to the feeling of self perpetuating vibrato oscillations that my arm easily migrated to around that speed.
Very inspiring! Thanks a lot! I'trying to reset without shoulder rest, I like it, but must say that the only way I manage study vibrato is with the thumb under.. Tumb high and Tumb regular end up in serious clutching which hinders vibrato motion... Any advise how to improve motility?
Thank a lot for this very involving channel!
Hi. Should I graduate to playing without a shoulder rest slowly or just dive in and wreck?🎻
Thank you for this lesson! It's so hard to find anything this detailed on playing without a shoulder rest. I have a question. In your other video where you talk about thumb positions, you describe how the primary way to support the violin with the left hand is to hold the neck between the middle of the thumb and the base of the 1st finger. For me, this position quickly falls apart when I try to learn vibrato, as the neck of the violin drops all the way down to the base of the thumb, so I'm wondering if during the entire vibrato motion, the contact point at the base of the 1st finger should stay fixed on the neck (just as it does on the side of the thumb) or slide back and forth instead, which I think might be my problem.
same I don’t know
All of this is much harder on the viola; especial if you have a short 4th finger and or small to average hand.
I have Played Violin 🎻
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Symphony #5 Student
Edition By Ludwig Van
Beethoven Is Coming
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Night Before Sun Down
Live Violin Solo Rehearsal Competition
Live Violin 🎻🎻🎻
I wish I found following your instructions as easy as watching you demonstrate vibrato. Just playing is tough at 77 years young.
Great video, thanks! Why is it do you think that contemporary violinists ( even the most accomplished) don’t have such a idiosyncratic vibrato, or sound, as the old guard?
My theory is violin teaching became more streamlined and codified in the past 50 years. The immense availability of recordings also helped instill a sense of uniformity in how things “should” sound. 100 years ago, the idea of a “school” of violin playing (Russian, German, Franco-Belgian, etc.) was much more of a necessity as that was almost your only reference for how violin playing should sound, so playing across the board could be more unique. This is my theory, at least
Thank you for your videos. I've recently eliminated my shoulder rest and chin rest and it's been one incredible rediscovery on how to play. I feel more aware with my left hand placement without the shoulder and chin rest.
Relearning vibrato has been indeed challenging. I feel comfortable using a "wrist vibrato" in any position other than first position. In first position, I feel unstable unless I support the back of my violin with the top part of my deltoid. Any other position I feel like my left hand has good contact with the instrument.
It made me wonder: do I need a chin rest to really do vibrato properly, especially in first position?
Can you do a video on chin rests?
The chin rest as well as the shoulder rest?! Wow, that is going full old school. The thing is though, when violinists started to implement vibrato as a fundamental technique, the chin rest had already been invented. While you don’t need to squeeze the heck out of the violin with your chin for a full vibrato swing, the friction of the chin helps stabilize the violin, especially since the vibrato swing begins by flattening the note, which could feel like you are pulling the violin away from the body. If you want to play in anything but baroque style, then I’d suggest experimenting with chinrests. Most violin shops that have several models in stock with happily let you try different models out in the store till you find which you prefer.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy PLEASE HELP, Are there any simple pieces I can use to learn and practice vibrato instead of horrible tedious exercises? And what song are you playing at the beginning it's nice.
@@leif1075 Massenet Meditation from Thais
Hi Murphy, thanks for the great video. I’ve been playing without a shoulder rest for a few years and have only recently developed a great wrist vibrato - but I’m not sure how to balance the need to hold the violin up with the base of the first finger, and the need for a gap between that base knuckle and the violin neck for a loose vibrato. How do you hold the violin up and vibrate while maintaining this space? I’m not sure that the thumb can take over this task alone.. most of the great violinists didn’t balance their violin on their thumb. I’ve heard Menuhin in his series on violin technique mention that it’s essential to have space between the base finger knuckles and the neck, and not support the violin with the thumb under the neck. Please lmk your thoughts, I’d love your advice. Thanks again 😊
This is a great question, and one I get a lot about this subject. The thumb position where you hold the violin between the upper part of the thumb thumb (about across the where the nail is) and the base of the 1st finger is what I call the "default" position, but a violinist can and will take advantage of other thumb positions as they progress. For your example, when I wish to focus on my vibrato, then I will indeed release the base knuckle of the 1st finger from the side of the neck of the violin, and support the neck violin on the pad of my thumb. It will almost look as if I'm pinching the neck between my fingers and thumb. You have to do this if you want a wide vibrato. However, If I'm playing fast passages and need to focus on accuracy and ease of movement, my hand will stay in the "default" position with the base of the first finger helping support the violin on the other side of the neck.
As one progresses, your hand starts to do this pivoting of the thumb positions automatically. You still are holding the violin up with the thumb, primarily, no matter what position you use.
yehudi menuhin is absolutely right. you have to balance the violin between the thumb and the knockle of the first finger. the most important aspect is that the thumb is able to move in very different positions.
I wanted this way way back like years ago cause my violin didnt came with a shoulder rest and my dad plays without a shoulder rest and i couldnt do it. When i saw people do it they all have shoulder rests. I bought a shoulder rest but i wasnt comfy with it and still couldnt do it.
It’s all about finding your limp wrist, something that’s nearly impossible for adult males…. If you didn’t learn as a child you’re gonna really struggle with getting enough tension out to not crush the little fella lol… my instinct is to grab harder… I think I might have to stick with vibrato on guitar, which is apparently the exact opposite, requiring lots of tension and strength especially with massive vibrato holding a 3 step bend… I’m beginning to think that having both skills simultaneously is probably impossible… Love to hear from someone that’s does both…
Hi all I'm two months at the violin and I don't use shoulder rest, I was wondering how the violin is supported during vibrato, not that I'm ready to learn it yet. I'm coming to violin from classical guitar
Have you ever tried to playing with an octave vibrato?
ah, i see you are Hunter as Well!
Takes 40hrs practice a day to become one
I gained weight over the years and found i cannot use a shoulder rest anymore. it is so bizzare. I can kind of play without it naturally now but it hurts so i need some kind of pad or something to start practicing again.
I just can NOT get the final push. I don't understand how it goes from the wailing fast to the beautiful super fast vibrato.
and what was the piece in the biegining?
"Little Bird, Little Chaveleh" from Fiddler on the Roof
Tobiah Murphy has practice 40hrs/day
I cannot for the life of me figure out where I’m supposed to put my thumb or how I’m supposed to support the violin while learning vibrato. Any insight would be appreciated.
--Dear Mr. Murphy, love your channel and videos. I watch them multiple times!
Considering the subject of vibrato, I have an extremely SPECIFIC question that I have not been able to find an answer to in other videos. The question is, "what are the slowest and fastest speeds of vibrato that are musically useful?" (obviously, too slow would sound like a sad moan and too fast would sound like an angry hornet.)
--When I practice vibrato with the metronome, I use each click as a Dotted Half Note and measure the "back" and "forth" of the finger in SIX 8th notes (yes, I know most count in 16ths but this a problem for me).
--So if you (or I) are playing SIX "back and forths" per click in a piece, what would be the metronome range to work towards?
This is a question for Kevin Lee luthier
@@deadmanswife3625 ...I've seen his videos. I think my question is too "unpoetic" for him to answer. I've sent my question to six violinists and 4 refused to answer, or misunderstood how to format the answer.
@@bchill69 😩
OK. What are you holding the violin up with though the flat of your thumb? Its maddening.
It looks like your thumb is on the side. I just don't get it. Can't find any answers anywhere.
Here's a video on the thumb placement he did, hope this helps! czcams.com/video/UaW4m2vSGHQ/video.html
Hi, could you please tell me what kind of chinrest are you using? Thanks in advance =)
That is a Berber chinrest 👍
To anyone who's watching - No, you're earphone is not damaged.
my problem is not the vibrato, it is the bow wont go smooth especially up bow
I'd like content about fiddling... Like maybe if there are any teqnique differences in master fiddlers from master classical violinists. My working theory is that there is not... Contact is good for everybody, and a fiddling works with cheat techniques, It would work better with right teqnique. No idea if I'm right.
I don't think it's so much that the technique would be different, but that the specifics of classical violin technique are far more necessary for proper execution of the repertoire than would be in fiddling. I've not studied fiddling in any proper way, but I have hung out with a lot of Irish fiddlers and tried to pick some of it up. What they are most concerned about is style. When I'd do an embellishment or turn in the fiddle music, the old Irish guy leading would take me aside and try to show me how to do it properly. "It sounds like you're trying to play Mozart, not fiddle!" he would say. At the same time, he wished that more fiddlers would learn classical tone production for things like airs and slower songs. So, while having classical training will help a fiddler, extreme accuracy is not their number one priority
@@MurphyMusicAcademy That makes so much sense to me. Thanks!
Vibrato was the easiest thing for me. I picked up the violin in fourth grade I could already do my vibrato on day one ....just wiggle your finger like dylana Jensen says.lol Now that I have a teacher I will admit that we do practice it slow like sirens a little just to strengthen the fingers. There are other things on the violin that I found so much more challenging like strengthening my pinky finger has been the mother of all challenges
Vibrato comes easy for some, and is very difficult for others. The only trend I’ve noticed is it is much easier for younger learners than adult learners, even more so than other violin techniques.
There isn’t one way to teach vibrato. The only proof is in the sound, ease of motion, and the control of speed and width. Dylan’s Jensen has a peculiar method, but I’ve been able to witness it’s efficacy first hand. I’ve taught vibrato successfully to students of all ages, but I had one older student (50+) that struggled immensely. Thankfully, she is friends with Dylana and started using her methods, and after several months of that we are seeing great improvements. Whatever works is what you should do, especially at first, and then the most important thing is learning full control of the vibrato in width, speed, and (most importantly) consistency
My latest video is actually on developing the pinky. Check it out and see if it helps you!
@@MurphyMusicAcademy I didn't find it on your page have you posted it yet?
@@DivaDeb1234 yes, if you click on videos it should be the most recently uploaded
@@DivaDeb1234 here’s a link if you couldn’t find it via the navigation: czcams.com/video/48hRELeV41w/video.html
@@MurphyMusicAcademy got it thank you !
Actually it does make a difference for new learners. I feel my violin shakes too much without the shoulder rest.
On the contrary, I feel more comfortable holding the violin with my thumb and the index finger knuckle my neck feels a lot more relaxed and comfortable
11:40 :)