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Is This Better Than Epoxy?! (at filling knots and voids in wood)
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2024
- When it comes to filling knots and voids, epoxy is stinky and gross. And who has 8+. hours to wait for it to harden?!
Polyamide fillers offer a much quicker way to fill voids, with no epoxy stank.
The kit I bought hammerroo.com....
For consumables, take a look at Tecbond 7718 - thats what the knottec brand uses, and it is often cheaper than 'wood repair' brand.
I love epoxy ... as long as I can't see it after I'm done.
🤣
I didn't know about it, and am very happy to have heard your comments. I don't do much filling and don't have serious time constraints, so will probably stick with epoxy. But it is nice to know what's out there!
Excellent information in a digestible presentation. Thank you. I think this is exactly the solution I needed.
Ive been seeing so many ads for this stuff, so thanks for testing it! Love your work
Ha the hammeroo ads on Instagram? I bought mine a year ago so I can't fully remember but that's probably how I got convinced to buy it 😂
@@TheWoodKnightI think they have these at ASH. I'll check next time I'm over there. Thanks for making this video. I always wondered how well it would work.
I was looking at this but wanted a more neutral review (not one paid by them) and knew where to buy it in Oz. Thanks for this! I also hate epoxy due to its “leaking around the knot. Now I want to try it.
good stuff, might buy after all my epoxy is used up.
I too own this system. One tip I'd give is: Keep all those multi coloured lengths of filler you get when changing colours - they are perfect for any filling jobs that will get painted :)
Been ware of this type of thing, but this is first video I've seen that actually went through what it really was and how it works. Thank you.
Very interesting. I worked in a furniture mill to put myself through university. At the mill, we used hot melt glue to seal pitch pockets and fill around loose knots. It was quick, simple, and cheap. However, we kept the glue below the surface of the wood and used wood putty to fill the last 1/16". All of the joints in the furniture would be puttied before finish sanding, so using putty didn't take any additional time for drying. (Back then, we didn't call attention to such repairs by using a contrasting filler as is popular today. We tried to make the repairs blend in.)
This stuff seems to be even quicker than the process I'm familiar with. It looks like it should work well. However, if I wanted the repair to blend in rather than stand out, I'd be tempted to use the method I described above. It still works.
There are sticks that match the colour of many woods for this system, but given the timbers I work with its hard to get it all blemish free - most eucalypts seem to have sap veins and wild colour swings, so its kinda 'going with the flow' rather than deliberately going for something contrast. If anything, contrasts less by going black!
What sort of putty did you use? Something like Timbermate?
@@TheWoodKnight The wood putty was oil based. So, similar to, but not the same as, Timbermate. Most of our furniture was stained with a water-based stain. We dunked smaller items, such as doors and drawer fronts, in a tank of the stain. Larger items were sprayed -- very heavily -- with the stain. I'm sure how a water-based product, like Timbermate, would have held up to such abuse.
I hope you didn't take my initial comment as a criticism. It wasn't. It was more a comment about how tastes change. In my own work, which are mainly decorative things turned on a lathe, I generally don't try to blend in any repairs. I might not even fill a void. It was also to show another way of skinning this particular cat.
@@DKWalser Didn't take it that way at all! If I had my way, I'd *prefer* clear grain - but I'd be wasting >50% of boards wider than 50mm to get that with the vic ash I use! In an ideal world, quartersawn tight grain eveything, with just a touch of fiddleback figure 🤤
you're right though, timbermate would be a bit iffy particularly with the dunking. Probably OK with the spraying - even a heavy coat, everything atomised tends to not be wet enough to reactivate the timbermate.
To reuse the scrapped-off excess you could use a plastic weld repair tool such as that used for broken car bumpers. It's basically a soldering iron with a triangular head.
Similarly, you can get a plastic welder for the same thing and you can choose the plastic. Also comes in handy for, well, welding plastic. Another method I've used is: melting small scrap bits of ABS plastic with acetone in a small glass jar. Once melted to a consistency of about peanut butter, I put acetone on the wood where I want to patch to help the melted plastic soak in, then goop it on. I've done this to fix torn out threads of a threaded insert, then reinserted the insert while the plastic was still melted. This is a decent torque application and it's worked like thickened epoxy, but much easier to smooth out (and almost free). I don't know how long it takes to dry in comparison since I just leave stuff overnight. Acetone evaporates quickly, but how long until it's sufficiently solid to clean up, I couldn't say. I think ABS can be had in different colors, but I wouldn't buy it just to use for this purpose and black is the most readily found, so keep that in mind for visual or finishing concerns.
Polyamide is a type of hot melt that is used for moulding the plugs on the ends of your smartphone cables, for example. It gives a slightly tactile feel and is very durable. In my opinion, and I sell this stuff, $44 for 8 x 150mm of specially moulded and packaged sticks is not too bad. If you were an industrial user and bought several tonnes per year of pellets you would be doing well to pay much less than $70/kg. Plus you would need some moderately costly low pressure hot melt moulding equipment to do it efficiently
I've been using this for a while especially to fill cabinet holes when painting kitchen cabinets. Saves a ton of time. It doesn't get flat flat but a bit of condo and little extra primer takes care of that. In your situation i don't thing it needs to be flat flat, you can get away with that on stained or clear coated stuff. Hey thing is to make sure to sand before and scrape after.
Wood glue with saw dust used to fill gaps and holes is cheap and work wells. A piece of plastic with a weight can leave the surface fairly flat. It normally dries within a couple hours.
Clever move by hammer roo to bring this to the Aussie market. I doubt however it will be long before Bangood sells one for $5. Pretty simple system to copy.
What about a soldering station, the ones with digital temperature setter? If it worked it would be like the old plumber's soldering bars only using what you need.
This reminds of how I use to melt polyethylene six-pack rings to repair gouges in snow skis. I never had one to pop out.
Would be good but seems expensive for what it is. I use Timbermate for small defects and epoxy for larger ones where I want to stabilise a crack. Epoxy is slower for sure but you can use faster hardners if needed. Cheers
Very interesting technique.
I use a router & bit to make a shape that covers the damaged area and glue that in with normal glue
Can you melt it using a kitchen blow torch like shellac sticks?
I use epoxy only for historical or rot restoration
Is this similar to p-tex (low molecular weight polyethylene) used for ski/snowboard bases?
Big fan of the surebonder pro series glue guns. They take 7/16 sticks though so just shy of 12mm. Wonder if they would still fit.
What ever happened to just using sawdust mixed with wood glue to fill gaps/dents and then sanding/plane-ing the surface after it dried? 🤔 It's one of the few tricks I remember my woodshop instructor teaching us nearly 35 years ago to hide the countersunk holes in our project.
Hint on tinted epoxy: dab a coat of clear epoxy on first, and once it goes off, follow with the tinted fill. No bleeding.
Given what the knot glue is made of, it is just plain ridiculous what they charge per stick. I would love to use it, but not at those prices and the investment to get a range of colours.
It is obvious that the pricing is not realistic when they charge gold rates for alloy blocks.
I'm sure every wood worker would buy this system if it was reasonably priced. I'm expecting the sellers will realise their mistake when Chinese versions flood the market and the premium brands just won't be able to catch up.
Hey Paul, I’ve seen some woodworkers use those sticks and just melt them with a flame, drip the filler into the void and use the heat sink. Seems to work fine and no gun required. Have you tried it that way?
Are they using the polyamide sticks or the more traditional wax/shellac repair sticks? I've seen plenty of the latter but must admit I didn't think to try it for these ones. So long as it's under 300c, it *shouldn't* burn...I think 😅
My concern there would be fumes - this looks more like a plastic (don't want to breath that in) than a wax.
I have to put a coat of shellac before I pour in tinted epoxy.
I will still use CA glue with sawdust but seems this may have a use for other fixes.
mostly work with rough lumber and slabs. This will save me soooo much time from just waiting and doing nothing.
Good info, thanks!
Great tips thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing , I want one but I’m not 100% convinced at those prices. I just use good old black timbermate if I want something quick. I thought these types of guns ran a little hotter than a standard glue gun, but I might be wrong though.
Not really. Most of new gun can easly go to this temp 🤣 Its just advert that you can olny use this gun 🤣 ive chcecked many tools and all working great
Do you have a favourite gun to use with these? I'd love to be able to recommend a cheaper kit to achieve the same thing!
Hi Paul, how would the filler go if you were wood turning a piece of say camphor laurel with deep cracks in it. Thanks Cheers Russell
*Theoretically* it should bond well enough to get a good grip, but I can't say with certainty. I think if you overfilled it a little bit and really pushed it into the crack with pressure, let it cool completely, and used gouges rather than scrapers it would give it the best chance
Thanks for the video. Did you consider using Tradies Bog from Bunnings mixed with coloured pigment?
I've heard of people using it for painted projects (either solid wood, or especially mdf/plywood) but not for clear coats. I've never touch any auto body work so i haven't experienced it before - do you know if it stains the wood around it? I assume it'd be flexible enough for wood expansion
@@TheWoodKnight It seems to be flexible enough. It was recommended to me by the Perth Wood School and they seem to use it fairly often as I understand it. As far as staining is concerned, I've only used it with dark Jarrah and I did a reasonable job of matching the colour so I'm not sure how much it stains. I need to do some more tests on lighter coloured timber to be certain but that won't happen until Perth escapes the heat we're having at the moment
I have use stonemasons 2part polyester filler with some success. It's available in a clear that has the consistency of tradies bog. There is a tinting kit too. The brand is Tenax
If you had a 'saver' form that was 11mm instead of 12, you could run them back through your bosch next time? I wonder if they could smashed through a dowel plate to get them into a cheaper 11mm glue gun? DUWW's idea of melting them straight in with a lighter already sounds easier. Starting with $50 worth of sticks looks more attractive than a $320 starter kit.
Pour la mise en ouvre cest bien. Quelle resistance par rapport a lepoxi. Et est ce que ca penetre comme lepoxy?
If it was penetrating into the grain, it would stain around, so likely it doesn't penetrate.
Are the filler sticks simply black stamping wax?
No. It's a polyamide (probably nylon) stick
Great video. Do you think you could get away with heating the knot filler with a regular heat gun or flame, rather than using the proprietary "glue gun"? That way you'd just need to buy the sticks.
Theoretically yes, there is (as far as I know!) anything special about the gun other than the temperature and size. If you can get something that handles 12mm sticks at around 170c (higher will work too, too high might cause discolouration of the lighter sticks?), you should be fine.
Hey, good job
The best known polyamide is "Nylon". That's DuPont's product name. Are these sticks nylon with colours and fillers? The melt temperature is similar to hot melt glue.
I haven't looked into the exact chemical formulation to see if it's an aliphatic, aromatic or semi aromatic polyamide. I suspect it is nylon but you'd have to ask the manufacturer directly
Where did you get that large cyclone I see in the background?
www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood-3hp-cyclone-dust-extractor
I was able to get it on sale a couple of years back so it was a fair bit cheaper, separation is great, but could do with more suckage
Have you tried melting black wire ties as a filler?
While thats *probably* a pretty similar material (nylon 6/6?), that would be a little tedious to heat up and get to flow into a knot.
To be honest 5-minute 2 component epoxy with a little bit of a sawdust works the best from all of the techniques.
Loos a bit like "Stubai Woodrepair" which works nicely for little defects and cracks.
I'd say it's exactly the same! Probably a white label OEM somewhere that keeps getting rebadged
Thanks for your great videos. 🇦🇺👴🏻
Do you know how it compares as to scratching, etc, against anything else? Come to think of it I have never seen a scratch test with any filler.
I haven't done specific testing buuuut....
* not as hard (so easier to scratch) than CA - but its more flexible so doesn't chip/craze
* not as hard as... some epoxies. Epoxy have such a huge range in hardnesses from the formula to how well the hardener is mixed in. Then there are polyurethane resins that are considerably harder on the shore scale!
* harder/less crumbly than timbermate/water based fillers
@TheWoodKnight thanks. I appreciate your "tests" so far. Looks like it has some advantages in certain situations. Sort of like finishes, there's no best one but some suit one's uses more often than others.
I think thats it exactly - even though it hurts me to say it sometimes epoxy *is* the right choice. Othertimes Timbermate is the right choice (grain filling especially). Its just another tool in the toolbelt :)
@TheWoodKnight I agree. A while ago I made a coat rack prototype and got 3 different reactions from people: one hated it, one loved it and another said they would like it but in a different colour. The experience was highly enlightening. Everyone has an opinion and I can't make everyone happy. I make what I want to. All that being said, some people absolutely adore epoxy tables and I can't make them happy. All I can do is use a small amount of epoxy as a glue and / or filler (when appropriate and which they might or might not notice) and make other people happy.
Like burn in sticks, but it gums up when sanded, not the same as epoxy that can be sanded, worked etc. Appears to have limited use is most woodworking,.
Regular hot glue gums up when sanding, but this (polyamide) stuff doesn't. Sands, scrapes, slices just fine.
Have you ever tried UV cure epoxy or sla 3d printer resin?
I agree with you on the epoxy, but I don't see this as any better other than the time factor.
Time, no need for gloves and no epoxy stank are pretty compelling for me!
@TheWoodKnight yes, I get that. In the end all fillers have their plusses and minuses. What works for you is what works for you. I appreciate the video.
That price though. Omg.
I hate epoxy as well. Nasty stuff. I usually just don't do anything to the voids. I find that I like the woodsjust the way it is with cracks, voids and all.
melt cable strips,, easier
Polyamide: translation - nylon.
"plastic monstrosities" LOL seriously.
CA Glue...
...isn't very good filling larger voids :)
As much as I like the idea, it's a bit expensive. I'll grit my teeth and wait for the time of other methods to cure
Thank you for fighting against the vile substance of epoxy, you're swell.
Gosh, youtube forced over 3 minutes of ads to watch this 10 minute video.
Firefox+ uBlock Origin
If you have a VPN, you can set it to another country and potentially get much less advertising. I live in Japan and they have very short advertisements, if there are any at all (in Japanese, however). If I have my VPN set to the US, I am appalled at the amount of advertising.
That's how they got me to pay for premium 😤
My biggest issue in this video is you keep calling it gross and no good explanation. It is messy, and can have some odor and other issues. A better solution I am open to, just not a fan of your description.
Some people call it woodworking when they dump 10L of brightly coloured, highly toxic plastic onto a slab. I call it gross. I'll call it icky or tacky next time!
@@TheWoodKnight yep 100% agree with the epoxy & love the way you put it, not everything needs total explanation, especially on your channel & in your workshop, & in Australia, as I thought we all say anything in the easiest form, like Steve, ambo, coppa dog, and everything one can think off 😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Thanks for all the info, it is greatly appreciated and love new and honest info
Have a fantastic week
Cheers 🍻
Great video not 😂seen this knot filler before.
Get to the point.
I hate how Tiktok has ruined the attention span of this generation 🤣
Does not speak clearly,mumbles too much