VS | Mace Windu vs Count Dooku
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2014
- This one was mighty close. Who will win out. A master of Vaapad or a master of Makashi?
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BTW these two weren't just a master of Vaapad and a master of Makashi, They're THE Masters of Makashi and Vaapad.
Correct.
4 years later
Antoine Bandele will we ever get any more vs videos in the future becarse i fell like you havent done any in a long time? Just asking😇
@Loopy We don't really know how good he was relative to Dooku, and we aren't certain that his form *was* exclusively a makashi master. We have no concrete feats.
Loopy non canon.
It weird how windu and dooku end up dead because of skywalker
Darth Vader cull if anakin and windu did actually fight though I think windu would win
who would win battles why do you think that ? I would declare them equal in lightsaber skills and force powers
Star Wars Versus Man Nah man, windus raw force power is greater than yodas. Yoda just has 100s of years more experience.
doomaga1 exactly more experience.Yoda has more experience with his powers that Master Windu
Hi wrong you are my young Jedi... I'll give you a explanation on Vaapad and Ataru.If Yoda and Mace Windu ever fought,Yoda would win because Vaapad (only) feeds off of aggression and dark side energy.Yoda is a Jedi and he does not use the dark side(obviously).Windu's Vaapad therefore would be terrible against a Jedi like Yoda who never used dark side energy.That's why Dooku could defeat Windu as well
People are underestimating Dooku. He was the best swordsman in the galaxy. And he was trained by Yoda and The Emperor.
The Emperor was his master. Who do you think trained him in the ways of the dark side?
Road To the Top, even so, Dooku was still pretty strong
Meat Dragon yeah but Mack windu revolutionised lightsaber dueling using vapad a style never done by any other
Yet dookus master was defeated quite readily by said opponent
@@zenosama8505 Dooku beat a user of vapad before though
I miss christopher lee
Yeah he was my favorite actor :(
Me too
Its such a shame that he died.
I miss Carrie Fisher.
@@SeardanCadmonDarrow I miss David prowse
I say this one is a stalemate. If Dooku realizes he's in a position to lose, he'll create a distraction and retreat. If Windu realizes he's in a position to lose, he'll sacrifice himself to take Dooku with him.
+Matches_Malone I see a stalemate as well.
+Matches_Malone True, Dooku wouldn't stick around for the conclusion of that match. He'd quickly assess that Mace is too powerful for his fencing skills alone to handle and find a way to escape rather than lose. Mace would just dig deeper until he could find a way to win.
Windu would win with ease
GarouH not with ease at all but mace would win if it was sith dooku if it was just jedi dooku and a sparring match it would be 50/50
@@lemonzazz122 it's much closer than you would think. Mace was the perfect Jedi to beat dark side users. This was one reason he was able to disarm Sidious. shatterpoint worked in that effect. Now, Dooky before his turn to dark side would best Mace more often than not. Now if Dooku started using dark side practices, this would amplify Mace, and Mace would turn his own dark side against him. Could go either way. In theory Dooku is the better light sabre dualist.
*Anakin cuts of Mace Windu's hand*
Anakin: "Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?"
jaguarpaw774 ;-)
Say what you will about this decision, you must admit this would be an epic duel if you witnessed it.
Heck yes it would.
I have to say this... RIP Christopher Lee. You will always be count dooku in my books.
Also Boba Fett kicked mace windus ass when he was only 12 years old 😂😂😂😂
@@khanna6324 No one asked
Mace Windu also beat Grievous, Ventress, Sora Bulq, Vos and (circumstantially) Sidious.
@@mylesblake2026 No one asked you not me. Hold the L
@@khanna6324 Ok then, who asked about the fight between Boba and Mace. Kindly F*ck off
The one hole I see in your argument is the point about Dooku's queytek meditation disguising him from Mace's dark-side-conducting Vaapad. Sidious is without question the greatest known master of this technique given that he was able to disguise himself from Jedi Masters for decades even within their own temple. Yet Mace was able to draw on Sidious's dark side strength in their duel.
You could make the argument that Sidiuos was purposefully letting out his pent-up energy in that fight and was overconfident, believing that his raw strength would overwhelm Mace. However, unless there is definitive proof that Dooku's dark side energy could not be sensed by a Jedi Master during a battle, I do not believe Dooku would be able to completely negate Mace's dark side conduit abilities.
TheWWIFlyingAce
Yes, but there's also the fact that Mace Windu's use of Vaapad was circumstantially augmented, during his duel, with Darth Sidious, so that could be a reason for Darth Sidious' Quey-Tek being broken.
So, does this Que-tek not require an amount of concentration or use of force power? Even if it blocked Vaapads super conducting ability wouldn't a lack of complete focus cause Dooku to be a step behind someone on his skill level? I also, dont lnow much about que-tek it sounds similar to Zannahs ability to cloak herself in a fake lightside presence which require quite a bit of focus the entire time she used it. Mace was also a master of every form if he couldnt use vaapad properly why wouldnt he just use djem so at a master level to directly counter Dooku's makashi?
You guys realize in dookus dueling at least in attack of the clones, he had not channeled any dark side energy during the saber to saber combat. He used his dark side powers differently from other sith, drawing from his focus instead of anger, it’s why he was such a good duelist. He wouldn’t use force lightning or anything on mace unless mace was open to the strike, so he wouldn’t need any anger or hate to conjure up any abilities he would use for the duel.
@@longdicklamar8674 shush
Yoda sensed the dark side in dooku but not in palpatine. That was cause dooku was showing his emotions when he put obi wan & anakin in their place at Genosis.
Christopher Lee's fencing was too good.
A fencing style makes the most sense for a weapon like a lightsaber.
@@AntoineBandele yeah that's why it is the greatest dueling form
Antoine Bandele I have to Agree humbly that style for a light saber is Dangerous... all I takes it just a ease precise touch... but I believe Mace has a counter attack and that would be Kenobi’s defensive style.. along with other abilities Mace Windu possesses...
Not even Darth Sidious could use the que'tec meditation in a fight. It requires calm, and absolute, concentrated focus. Not something one can get in a fight with Mace Windu.
+Darth Orennun It was Sidious's pure hatred for the Jedi and his excitement of a fight a life time spent waiting for that Mace was able to feed off of.
+Darth Orennun Dooku's hatred is no where near as strong as Sidious. In fact when on Vjun he was considering going back to the Jedi. Also Dooku's,style is very collected and calm. Precise. Not the very thing Mace would get a good amp with.
peola johnson very true, but dooku's negative feelings are strong. And the superconducting power loop would bring mace even with dooku, and his vapaad style is head-on. Whereas dooku's style is about redirection, and deflecting lightsaber strikes. Not designed to handle a heavy handed fighting style.
+Darth Orennun Dooku does not use his negativity to boost his combat effectiveness.
+Darth Orennun Anakin's Djem So is also heavy handed fighting style possibly more so than Mace's Vaapad and Dooku was able to deflect and redirect his strikes and even defeat him on different occasions. Same with Savage. Savage was much more of a Brit and tried to just launch out at Dooku and Dooku deflected his strikes with ease.
I agree with this judgement. Mace was extremely powerful and offensive, but lacked the finesse and precision of that of Dooku's.
Dooku is a gentleman and a beast of finesse.
@@AntoineBandele c elete tihs video NOW NOW!
It doesn't make sense that Windu would lose. He defeated Palpatine, someone even Yoda struggled against. And Yoda defeated Dooku easily. How is Windu losing against Dooku?
@@kwameadu0075 bro its all about lightsaber forms who counter each other not always about who lost to who who lost to another guy
Yet Dooku was in Legends during his and Maces final battle was able to tank Maces force wave push that knocked back the battle droids and stated that Mace never once beat him in lightsaber combat in the jedi temple and would not defeat him at that time and Dooku was able to ragdoll 215 meter cruisers with ease and as a Nine Year Old Dookus telekinesis and force shield was so tough that in force tournaments and force games Dooku was the only person Yoda did not go easy on and yet and Dooku was able to contend with Yodas force speed better then Mace was and right after shortly beating Anakin And Obi Wan
This is an amazing choice for a duel .
I agree :-D
Antoine Bandele you have a new sub
eternal reding :-D
I don't believe you are giving mace full credit for his blade work. You have to look at him like he was Bruce Lee using wing Chung. Bruce saw mistakes within the style and set out to improve himself, which in return created a new style. The form you talk about in your videos is Juyo only and not vapaad. I believe when mace using vapaad, he apply forms 2, 3, & 4 with it. He would know ever weakness of vapaad and have a plan for it.
+Laron Collins Hey Laron whats good. Just so you know it's spelled Wing Chun not Chung. It wound be more like the 80's song everybody wang chung tonight. ;-) Peace bro. By the way I agree with what you said about Mace.
I do agree Mace Blade Work is just Dangerous...
Bruce Lee would slap mace
Dooku is much older than Mace.I don't think he could defeat Mace in a duel simply because he cannot stop many strong attacks.That's why he would lose the duel vs Vader, too.Sure his dueling style doesn't waste as much energy as Mace's but he has to redirect his attacks which is not very easy and would exhaust him.In the fight versus Anakin when he died he said ''You have anger but you cannot use it.'' I believe Mace has anger, too but he can use it.I understand that Dooku fought with 2 jedi at once and he got tired very fast but what killed him was Anakin's powerful attacks.And last i think that Mace would get as angry as versus Sidous.That made him toe to toe against the emperor and that , in my opinion, would kill Dooku.
+Кинг Предизвикателство It's funny people say that when your old you would lose. When it comes to swordplay and were talking super light swords here. Being older is being better. It's mostly skill, not strength or power. But people who are untrained in real swordplay never see that.
And you also don't know what Dooku can do or his sword style. His sword style is Makashi, It's basically European rapier and saber fencing styles. With that, you deflect strong attacks, instead of meeting them head on. You out maneuver with your feet and sword. This takes years to get down and more years to master.
Dooku wouldn't waste much energy, keep his attack tight and kill Mace.
TMA Dooku is older so we can't say for sure who would get tired faster.I said that Mace would get angry so he will become as strong as vs Sidious.It wasn't mentioned in the video that Sidious can hide his dark powers better than Dooku and Mace still used Vaapad effectively vs him.
It depends on how old are the men who are fighting.In this fight Mace is still pretty old and doesn't have so much to master(40) while Dooku is as old as my grandfather(80)!
Кинг Предизвикателство I can tell you, like I wrote in the previous post. That Dooku wouldn't tire as fast as Mace. Because of the the saber style he uses. It's all about economy of motion and Dooku is a master at that. Mace just swings widely and often to get the cut.
You are right about Sidious cannot hide his hatred and emotions about the Jedi nearly as good as Dooku can nor even Vader.
TMA ''Sidious cannot hide his hatred and emotions about the Jedi nearly as good as Dooku'' that's not true at all!Sidious is better than Dooku in literally every single way.
Кинг Предизвикателство Nope. When Sidious fought Mace. He let his emotions of hatred almost get the better of him and out of control. That is how Mace was able to use Vapaad to hold him off, for a bit. Dooku doesn't let his emotions get the better of him like that and stays calm during every encounter. Vapaad wouldn't work on Dooku. Sidious was stronger in the force than Dooku and still a little better duelist under most circumstances.
+Baxter Osburn Anakin did not batter through Dooku's defenses. He actually beat him on a finesse-move.
Antoine Bandele yes, Anakin did beat Dooku on a finesse move, but only after tiring him out
+Matthias McCormack Exactly. After he wore him down with Djem so.
+TMA that's why my personal opinion is that had Dooku had Anakin's build, he would have triumphed
+TMA that's why my personal opinion is that had Dooku had Anakin's build, he would have triumphed
+Matthias McCormack No he wouldn't have. Read cocoa nut's comment below.
+josiah jenks That'd be what I'd call a perfect triangle Anakin > Dooku > Mace > Anakin > etc . . . Though I don't place Anakin solidly over Dooku.
Antoine Bandele I like the rock-paper-scissors idea in general. Though i do think that in the star wars universe a lot of outcomes do not make sense. I cannot see a clear depiction as to who is stronger than the other. In all honesty i think that the victor is always story based, and after, there is a whole fan based analysis to make the things that happnen make sense, based on assamptions (like the Windu-Palpatine).
In Ep. III form the conversations, Yoda is the most powerfull, but Windu is claimed to be the strongest with a lightsaber, but when Anakin was talking about Obi-wan saying that Obi-Wan was as wise and strong as both of them.
Even during the fights themsevles things barelly made sense. In two of the three movies there were fights were 2 fought against one enemy he holds his own, disarms or kills one of the two, and then he losses when it's one on one... I dont know, i think that in the star wars universe the writters just pull things out of their @%# when it comes to who is stronger-who wins in a fight.
Tixodioktis Deviant You are correct. Star Wars is riddled with tons of plot conveniences, especially with the fight scenes.
***** They have specific advantageous against on another.
Antoine Bandele Mace Windu was not aware of Anakin's attack so that is why he would win
Antoine Bandele Can you please make sure you know that MACE WAS NOT HUMAN! he was Korun where his entire race was force sensitive but still good video :D
+Briadon Eikenberry My rebutal would be that Grievous' strikes were just as chaotic as Windu's. So Dooku would have little difficulty defending against Vaapad's sporadic strikes. What's more, he has displayed a great skill against Vaapad when facing Sora Bulq.
I would say grevious was more aggresive than windu robotic and 4 blades put a factor in it
Would u ever involve the inquisitor from Rebels against dooku
peola johnson It's a tad pre-mature to be adding anyone from Rebels at the current time.
Understandable
Inquisitor needs more inquisitive character development.
+hassan abdalla There is not question that Dooku could combat Windu's Vaapad. He has already outfenced Windu before and he disarmed Sora Bulq (also a Vaapad specialist) very easily.
+Antoine Bandele
but windu and sora bulq are a completely different teir of dualist mace windu is a master of all 7 forms who uses them without aby specialisation+vapaad while dooku has an education of sorts in all 7 forms he is solely a makashi specialist who is bound by it's weaknesses.
+ahmad3652 where is it stated mace mastered every from?
Chris Ivory
almost any source you can look, woopedia role playing books.
that was when they are younger and in training
mace will win and dooku knows this also. he would rather run than face windu like he did when they face off on bozy pity
Awesome video, this would be a VERY close matchup. But in the end, I agree Dooku would be the victor.
Soggy Harmonica As do I.
Man, no love for Mace I see.
Just stop.
Your not yoda
I don't want to be a shriveled up green thing. Why are you bringing up yoda? I said mace.
I'd love to see this get remade. I feel your ideas and opinions these two characters have evolved over time.
I disagree with this video. Mace held his own against Sidious. At that point they were moving in and out of reality. Sorry, I just don't see Dooku pulling that off.
I also think Dooku's arrogance would work against him.
Draven Flores www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
Yes yes I read that. Honestly i'm disappointed that they made Mace out to be so weak. It really takes away from him as a character.
Draven Flores He's not weak though. He's extremely powerful. He had the tools to stand up to the greatest Dark Lord of all time.
Agreed, but the story in the jungle takes away from how powerful he's perceived.
+tony jiang www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
??
Batman ???
Batman Uhhh… Bats?
What are ya doing here?
Huh.. this was an interesting turn out. I honestly thought that Windu would be able to push back Dooku.
And in terms of character, I think they're both fairly interesting, though I KIND OF do question why the hell Dooku decided to side with the man who essentially was responsible for his former Padawan's death. He practically raised Qui-Gon like a son, and NOW I find out he SAW a recording of Maul killing him and he STILL turns?!
How EXACTLY does the Dark Side work if I may ask? Because I may have a few things backwards.
Torterra I really hope we can get a novel for Dooku. I don't understand how his mind works either. I'd love to see a book (or a series of books) that goes through his whole life. Form when he was a Knight under Yoda, to when he was Master and then when he defected to the dark side of the Force. Wouldn't that be great!?
I think this boils down to a question of force wall strength. Honestly I see Mace as a wrecking ball to Dooku's finesse.
Dooku in Legends And Canon had a strong force shield so much that he was able to effortlessly tank and still stand force pushes and waves from Mace and Anakin and even Anakin and Obi Wan on separate occasions so yeah
You said Duku's technique of hiding his presence through the force was meditation when you first mentioned it. How could he implement that during a duel?
Secondly Mace didn't just know Vaapad he was very proficient in all 7 forms. He could switch between forms in an instant. We was very good at form 4 and 5. He knew how proficient Duku was in form 2 which is based in finesse and precision so Mace would fight accordingly.
You stated Duku was the best of any at form 2. And had general knowledge/application of all other forms (with exception to Vaapad.)
Mace was also know for his finesse and precision if you throw shatter point into the equation mace has Duku beat. Mace help off Sideous's force lightning for a good amount of time and Duku wasn't near as power as Sideous meaning Duku's Lightning could be blocked far easier.
Look at how Kenobi blocked Duku's lightning...
Just my opinion. Mace beats Duku in a long intense fight that would be recorded in SW history.
Dooku did it in fights before
Mace is nowhere near as skilled in the other forms as he is with Vaapad that is suicide for him
Mace is not really anywhere near as precise as Dooku who's entire style is based off that and Shatterpoint couldn't save him any fight besides with Sidious
Unlike Palpatine he can use the force with one hand while dueling with the othe
revenge of the sith was filled with fake fights where the defeated opponent was holding back
Obiwan defeated Anakin yet both him and Anakin together were getting their asses kicked by Dooku until Anakin got angrier and Obiwan was nearly dead and Dooku didn't take Anakin seriously for the rest of the fight.
Then Sidious pretends to lose to Windu, he clearly had power to kill Mace Windu judging by how his lightning killed windu.
@@SwagokuLion Obi-Wan vs Anakin was an honest blood fuelled fight. Obi-Wan is just smarter and Anakin was using the dark side of the force so he felt like a god amongst men (like Kenobi did against Maul) this is a very bad combination against Obi-Wan. And Mace defeating Sidious is debatable, personally I think Mace won the lightsaber duel fair and square but Sidious didn't unleash his full power in the force once he realised Anakin's presence. He goes from "I'm too weak." to "UNLIMITED POWER!" in 10 seconds flat, I think there's a chance Sidious could've knocked Windu's saber out of his hand like he did with Yoda (who he lost in a duel to then used the force mind you). With the Dooku fight, now there I agree with you but if he was still outmatched by Anakin in a sense given he didn't bounce back from realising that Anakin was a force to be reckoned with. That's just my two cents.
@@VinVonVoom Anakin was cocky and the force push difference makes no sense. How easily Dooku beat Obiwan in their force fight and then how Anakin simply equalled Obiwan.
Do you really believe Count Dooku (the guy that beat Mace Windu and General Grievous) is no match for Anakin Skywalker?
Even when Dooku was a Jedi he was a match for Yoda in saber combat. And Dooku isn't really weak to power attacks, he has his defeats that is true but in most of his battles he has victories.
Dooku got caught off gaurd.
@@SwagokuLion Dooku getting caught off gaard is what I meant but it still demonstrates Anakin's ability/Dooku's inability considering he got caught off guard in the first place. I absolutely think if Dooku took it completely seriously he would beat both of them.
+Baxter Osburn Look at the fight again. When Anakin defeats Dooku it was not through a power strike, it was through a finesse strike, slicing his hands off.
+Antoine Bandele I think i could argue that since Djem so is based on the act of countering, that Anakin's finesse move was really a powerful counter that looks like a finesse move.
Also, it has been well established that grey-jedi that come from the light are much more effective then those who come from the dark.
A Jedi doesn't decrease in power as he ages. In his later years, his connection to The Force will become far more refined and he will be able to enhance his physical abilities far more than youth ever could.
That's not to say that Mace Windu doesn't win out in physical ability, mind you. His ability to augment his physical capabilities with The Force almost certainly surpassed that of any (or almost any) opponent. My point is just that you shouldn't need to justify an aged Jedi or Sith Lord having exceptional physical capabilities in every video where you have an aged Jedi or Sith Lord showing exceptional physical prowess.
+Cocoa Nut I agree. Everybody thinks when your old, your not good. That couldn't be farther from the truth. That doesn't apply to sword fencers. Nor to force wielders. Their power grows with age.
+Cocoa Nut I have to agree strength, speed, and skill rely greatly on the force and little on age. However endurance has to be taken into account if a fight lasts long enough. That is when age will come into play.
+Cocoa Nut Sometimes it does.
+Cocoa Nut Vader to Obi-Wan: "You are weak, old man!"
+TMA, but fencing to an extent is a young man's sport. Of course, many older, more experienced fencers will be able to outdo you due to experience, but youth plays heavily in one's favor. When younger, you can maneuver better, deal out faster, stronger strikes, and have the stamina to keep going. You see that when Anakin faces Count Dooku. Getting past his prodigious skill with D'jem So, Anakin's blade movements were too fast for Dooku to handle, and coupling that with the fierce blows Anakin is known for, he was overwhelmed. Vapaad is also a ferocious dueling style.
Mace Windu's uses force augmentation so efficiently, I feel Dooku would have the same issue he had with Anakin. Also, Mace would not tire out while Dooku would. Redirecting strikes is not a 100% thing, Dooku would have to block as well. With the strikes coming from someone as strong as Mace, Dooku would eventually tire. They're both very powerful force users and duelists, so this fight would most likely be drawn out, something we all know would go in Mace's favor.
0:47 - Broke his concentration.
I see what you did there.
CaptainArn ;-)
love the videos,very interesting and informative...subbed
jervis jagroop Awesome! Glad to see you join up!
Mace's form allows him to use the Dark side of the Force against his opponents, draining them as the fight went on. It was Sith kryptonite, that is how he was able to beat Sidious. In my opinion, Mace would eventually defeat Dooku.
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html
Sidious pretended to lose to turn anakin to the dark side, he had a chance to kill windu by pointing his saber towards windus chest
Dooku doesn't give into his hatred and anger like other sith, he has too much pride for that. Notice how Dooku has never been portrayed with yellow sith eyes unlikes nearly every other sith we've seen. Dooku just doesn't use anger and hatred, period. He uses focus and finesse rather than drawing on rage and hatred to win.
How I see it: Samuel L. Jackson vs. the late Christopher Lee
I'm clearly late to this series but you have Mace Windu losing to Darth Vader and Count Dooku, and on another link someone listed him as 5th best Jedi behind Yoda, Obi Wan, Luke, and Anakin. Severely underrating Mace. There was a reason why he was second only to Yoda in command. In the movies, we saw him take out Jango Fett and beat down the emperor. In the Clone Wars miniseries (before the ongoing cartoon series) he had an episode to himself, where he singlehandedly (and for a time without his lightsaber) defeat an entire droid army, also he was the one who crippled general Grievous in less than a second. You need to revisit that miniseries. Mace was the only person besides Yoda to fend off force lightning. He was able to withstand and even deflect Sidious' force lightning back onto him. Mace is only less powerful than Yoda, and possibly only in consideration to Force sensitivity. He is probably the most powerful Jedi with a lightsaber. He beats Count Dooku and he beats Vader even easier.
+sentientsake www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/count-dooku-vs-mace-windu/97072/
www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
+Antoine Bandele I went to and read both the links and I don't see how they are reliable sources. The first link compares Dooku and Mace based mostly on how they fared against Sora Bulq. The argument made was that if you don't count Mace's use of force or shatter point or other jedi powers, his pure sparring skill is equal to or less than Dooku. And in the second link the interpretation of the fight with Mace and Sidious was that Mace only won by exploiting a slight moment of fear, and that Mace's power was temporarily amped beyond what it ever was before. I don't mean to be rude but these "excuses" to explain away Mace's victories are foolish. The first link refers to Mace's fight with General Grievous in some offshoot source but does not include the video link from the Star Wars Clone Wars miniseries where Mace cripples Grievous by crushing his chest with force TK. Yet just a few paragraphs down, that link provides proof of Dooku being better than Grievous by showing a clip from the same Star Wars Clone Wars miniseries. What reliable argument ignores contemporary comparisons from the same source material? Ultimately what I am saying is that your sources of argument are biased toward cherry-picking incompatible sources in order to already support the idea of Dooku being better. Also, in a hypothetical lightsaber battle, why should we exclude use of force powers or shatter point or whatever other add-on terms that Jedi would have at their disposal. And we should not rely on how quickly or slowly they vanquished past opponents because Mace is a Jedi and Dooku a Sith. As a Jedi Master, Mace would not usually be seeking to kill his opponent, especially not as quickly as possible-which your second link indicates, even during his battle with Sidious. Despite Sidious moving so fast he was " a blur of shadow", Mace was able to ponder on things, and use force senses to track fear and motive while his body could subconsciously maintain defense. He concludes in that battle that Sidious should die, which by the way, reads in your source just as it appears on screen. That Mace did in fact DEFEAT Sidious. It does not matter how or what excuse you provide for it. Just as Anakin eventually beats Dooku. Does it matter if it was some twist of the wrist? If using the same logic you try to display with these two links, however, Dooku should not have been defeated in a lightsaber duel by anyway except Yoda. Yet in the movies, he survives his fight with Yoda, but loses to Anakin. Does this mean Anakin can beat Yoda? Oh, wait, Obi-wan beat Anakin, so Obi-wan should be able to beat Yoda? But Obi-wan lost to Dooku twice so you see how "who beats who, and how quickly is not a useful argument. What might be more useful, though, is the power, skill, and strategy displayed in previous battles. Obi-wan defeated ALL his opponents through cunning. Anakin tries to overpower or out "skill" his opponents, Sidious relies on speed. Dooku relies on surprise and off-balancing (he instructed Grievous to do so, remember). We have very little to determine Mace's tactics (just his fight against Jango Fett, the Droid battalion, and Sidious) but we know the fighting style he invented (which should account for something) is based on the theory of aligning with his opponent to re-channel attacks back at his opponent. Of all those different approaches to fighting, the only person who might beat Mace is obi-wan, because if he endures long enough, he might discover a way to overcome his attacks being redirected. Notice how Obi-wan defeated most other bad guys except Dooku? That's because surprise and off-balance doesn't provide much time to think about a winning strategy.
+sentientsake first of all i think that the outcome of a fight doesnt say necessarily who is more powerful, as we all know the jazz could win vs the cavs. second i take the movies as number one source, cuz they are exactly the vision of lucas = the ultimate canon. so i try to analize them as precise as possible. to me during the LIGHTSABER battle between mace and sidious u could find no retreat no fear and no defensive attitude in maces expression. he was dominant over there. he even refused the lightning with the sword. when we say x beat y so x is stronger that means windu is the most powerful one. but i say windu yoda dooku sidious anakin obi wan are all on a level on which anyone can beat anyone. my own perception says btw windu had the most impressive performance, so i d pick him over dooku in general. dont get me wrong, i m not a windu fan guy at all but my rational consideration leads me to that conclusion.
i d even say that sidious is "more powerful" than windu. maybe a lot more and that only all the circumstances antoine describes in the control video played into windus favor but i NEVER agree with the thesis that sidious threw the fight. so when u DID beat the master u should have the advantage over the apprentice.
+sentientsake finally i can read ur complete second commentary and i m agreeing with everything stated there! its truely accurate and antoine should also have a look on it.
We all know that Mace would defeat the Count due to the fact he is the only Jedi to possess the n word pass
Ahsoka tano: am i a joke to you?
@@pixiethecanary7666 Ahsoka ain’t black
All hail Lord Tyranus! You know the old saying: the older, the wiser. And he was definitely the wiser, smarter fighter.
Great video as always. But I wouldnt write Mace off so easily in this fight.
Dont get me wrong i'm a huge fan of Dooku's skill set. But I think Mace already knows how Dooku is? So i think Mace would be very cautious. Plus Mace would use his shatter point ability when his darkside channeling wouldnt work. Not to mention Falling back on the other forms he's master'd as well. I think it would be back & forth alot. And his shatter point would pin point his age and just tire him out. With a few close calls..If Mace can go toe to toe with Sidious and almost beat him? Then he could handle Dooku. But like you said it would be close.
Hitman Thornton www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
It'd be close but I favor Dooku's finesse. Just like Mace, Dooku knows Mace and his style as well. Shatterpoint wouldn't do much for Mace in this instance, especially if you think the thing that could be discern was Dooku's age. Shatterpoint would probably show that Mace would need to use a power form. But in that way, I think Dooku would cut around instead of being overwhelmed.
Antoine Bandele Ok,ok point well taken.. Like I said im a HUGE fan of Dooku's style.. I think its one of the few that is a MUST to have in your skill set for lightsaber combat.. But Im gonna always pull for Mace. C'mon he's the ONLY brotha we know thats in the Jedi order lol.
Hitman Thornton Let's not forget Jolee Bindo!
Antoine Bandele OH YEAH!!!!!! Damn how did i forget about him.. Ok 2 brotha's lol..
Hitman Thornton Roth Del-Masona and Quinlan Vos!
YOU CANT GIVE ONE PERSON THE MOSE EDGES AND THEN JUST SAY THAT THE OTHER GUY WON! Man it messes with my brain
Very well done. I enjoyed this analysis.
:-D
awsome video, put the two gratest duelists of their times agaits eachother.
Samini the B Thanks! Indeed.
Palpatine lost against Windu, Palpatine is Douku's master, Palpatine had a close call dual with Yoda(Yoda might of won, if he didn't leave). Yoda would have drafted Douku is he didn't leave his battle in episode 2. So Yoda >= Palpatine, Windu > Palpatine, Palpatine > Douku(probably), in theory Windu > Douku, because of this.
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html
+Arran Daniel Sidious has also mastered all seven forms. It was to get anakin to the dark side.
+cadkls my point is more that you can't say vapaad leaves him at a disadvantage when he could just as effectively switch forms if this became apparent
+Arran Daniel I'm not. I'm saying there's no point bringing maces mastery of the forms into this because Sidious too has mastered them.
+cadkls this is about dooku vs mace.
I think a fight between mace would be determined by how long it went on i think if dooku finished the fight quickly then he would when but if mace managed to prolong the fight i think mace would have the advantage in a long fight.
Thanks for telling me about this dude, now I'm subbed to 4 versus series channels! Ima check out all your vids since this one was really good!
Me too! I'm subscribed to three myself!
Well done. Thanks for making these Antoine. :)
Thanks for you comment :-)
I really enjoy doing these for sure :-D
you have a good ass word choice my dude
but vaapad is not the only form mace has
Shelli Lalime Sullivan Him fighting with any other form wouldn't even hold a candle to Sidious raw might.
But it is his go to when fighting sith
I like how much effort you put into your videos
Thanks
Here I was thinking Mace Windu was screaming about his hand being cut off, now we know he was thinking "oh! my concentration!".
My 2 favorites of the Clone Wars Era!
Woot
I gotta go with windu.
Thanks for this Antoine. Everyone else I've met has always given Windu the win. Nice to see there's someone else who believes Dooku could take a 6/10
I always thought Dooku was so sick, that he was able to deal with both anakin and obi at the same time was damn impressive.
did you know mace windu and count dooku fought in the comics
They did not have a full fight.
I agree that this would ultimately come down to who is the better duelist but I have to disagree with your verdict.
First of all as you stated Makashi lacks strength and if Anakin was able to power throw Dooku there is little doubt in my mind that Windu who is more experienced would be able to do so as well.
While Dooku's style is very refined and precise there are a few things that you failed to mention about Vaapad which would likely tip things in Windu's favor.
Vaapad is both fast strong and precise. The moves flow from one to the other with liquid precision.
Vaapad users are said to be moving so fast that they appear to be wielding multiple lightsabers and moving faster than the eye can perceive. So it may seem like Vaapad is wild but it is by no means lacking in precision. In fact one of it's techniques "the Assured Strike" was an attack where the user traded sheer power for the near-certainty of landing a hit which could mean anything from a precision strike or and very awkward and unorthodox one because Vaapad users attack from every angle.
Vaapad's primary drawback is it does not have a good defense however Windu's battle with Sidius shows that he either overcame that weakness or is at least able to draw on his knowledge of other forms in order to make up for it.
There is also a question of familiarity. While both Makashi and Vaapad are rare forms I think Windu's Vaapad would be much harder to figure out.
Makashi is a much older form but it could be argued that it it could be countered by doing your history and understanding it rather than purely relying on more modern forms like Ataru and Djem So.
As you said, Windu had mastered other forms which is required for one to even study Vaapad so it is likely he is familiar with Doku's style and how to counter it. However Vaapad has only been mastered by Windu, Sora Bolq, and Depa Billaba and since both Bolq and Billaba are both dead or comatose. So the only source from which to learn Vaapad is Windu himself and any notes he may have left behind.
Windu could counter Makashi by studying the form, which, he probably has, however it seems the only way Dooku could truly become familar with Windu's style and counter is by fight him multiple times.
Vaapad is by definition unorthodox and if Dooku was unable to adapt to Anakin's increased power and skill I doubt he will be about to adapt to Windu's unorthodox style.
Others can learn Makashi and be successful but so far only one has been able to master Vaapad without falling to the dark side and that speak volumes.
The reason I gave the slight edge to Dooku and didn't think Vaapad would overtake him is because of Dooku's ability in Qey'tek. Vaapad was based around channeling the dark. If Mace could not successfully channel Dooku's darkness because he was cloaking it, I think his abilities with the form would be dampened. Therefore the precision in that form would turn more wild. Also, Dooku did have familiarity with Vaapad and its weaknesses when he faced Sora Bulq, even successfully turning the form against Bulq.
The reason Dooku was so overpowered by Anakin was because of his hubris. He was not expecting Anakin's powers to have actually doubled since their last duel. With Mace he would go in knowing he was facing someone who could compete on his level so I do not think he would be caught off guard.
Still though, I see their fight truly being determined by whatever circumstance they found themselves in. They were very equally matched. Though I saw it as if they fought each other one-hundred times, Dooku would win 52 to Mace's 48. It would be that close.
One thing to bare in mind is you can't directly compare Mace Windu's Vaapad to Sora Bulq. I think probably the best way to describe their differences is Bulq was mastered by the form and became a slave to it while Mace truly mastered the form. I think he actually said (correct me if I'm wrong) that it was a mistake to expose Bulq to Vaapad.
Fighting Sora Bulq isn't the same as fighting Windu just like fighting Asajj Ventress is not the same as fighting Dooku. So, I highly doubt Dooku would be able to turn the form against Windu.
Also I don't think Windu's inability to draw on Dooku's darkness would hamper him. I think it would more take away an extra boost.
One way to describe is (this may not be the best analogy) is comparing a highly trained soldier armed with a gun that never runs out of ammo versus a gun that does run out of ammo. The soldier with limited ammo is still the same deadly warrior he just can't be as reckless.
Windu's ability to draw on another's darkness gives him an endless supply of energy. Take that away and the only difference is he has to conserve his energy in order to avoid burning out and I think we can all agree that a master of Windu's callibar is more than capable of pacing himself and if necessary he can still augment his abilities through the Force.
That being said he would still be able to attack from the unique and random angles that is part of Vaapad and I think it is more likely that one of those random unrelenting strikes is more likely hit home than one of Dooku's precision strikes.
After all when Dooku went head to head with Yoda he soon realized he couldn't beat him and decided to cut his losses. Going up against Windu would probably look something similar but instead Dooku would be going up against a younger, stronger opponent who's style is far more randomized and unpredictable than Yoda's textbook Ataru.
I agree that it would be very close given Dooku doesn't need to draw on the rage of the darkside but I would still tip the edge in Windu's favor.
Here's a question that might settle this: Who would win if Dooku fought Sidious? The reason why I ask is because in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith it states that Windu and Sidius were completely equal and the only reason Windu beat him is because he either outsmarted Sidius by luring him to the window ledge (not likely) or Sidis threw the fight in order to better corrupt Anakin. If Dooku can in fact beat Sidius then he can beat Windu on his best day.
savagenature1 As a duelist I think Dooku could best Sidious. But Sidious force powers would outclass him, which is ultimately more important than saber skills.
It's really difficult for me to reference the Sidious/Windu fight because I really do think Sidious threw the fight. Even if he didn't it wasn't a fair fight to begin with. He expended a lot of his force rage in the first few minutes killing those three Masters almost all at once. I feel toe-to-toe and one-on-one with no one else Sidious beats Windu.
Antoine Bandele I don't think Sidious lost any of his energy at all. He has all the power of the darkside to draw from. The only reason he appeared to be slowing down was because when he and Windu got on the widow ledge he had to use the force in order to keep from falling off instead of augmenting his speed. A duel between Sidious and Windu one on one on even ground would likely end in a stalemate because as I said earlier Sidious has all of the dark side to draw from and Windu would be feeding off of it.
savagenature1 That's the point. Antoine completely ignored the circumstances of Dooku's defeat as well as his fight against Yoda and the essence of Vaapad. Yoda's fighting style is very one sided. Yoda doesn't have any tricks on his side. And yet Dooku hadn't any chance against Yoda. He was by far too fast and took to much pressure on him. Anakin defeated Dooku because of the fact that Dooku was quite old and couldn't do much against Djem So which was reinforced by Anakin's rage. Vaapad combines incredibly fast attacks with powerful and precise strikes. Windu is by far younger and stronger than Dooku so Dooku even with his fighting style couldn't outlast Windu. Last but not least: Vaapad isn't useless against Dooku. It wouldn't be as destructive as against other Sith but it's still a very powerful tool. Windu's knowlege about all lightsaber forms combined with his Shatterpoint ability would give him the ability to counter Makashi.
As stated in the novel: Palpatine and Windu are nearly equal as duelists and they could fight endless. But Windu has some more abilities than his lightsaber skills. Not only Vapaad made Windu the best duelist in the order. It's the complete package of skill with the lightsaber, physical strength and other abilities where Shatterpoint is only the most prominent. Maybe Dooku is the better pure duelist in 1 vs. 1 battles. I also think that - also as a pure duelist - he's better than Sidious. But that's not all what decides a battle.
So as a verdict: Dooku is indeed a good match for Windu but I think in the end he would lose.
I agree with this verdict. I like Dooku's Jedi approach to Sith mastery. It really makes him stand out and helps him in the long run.
Yoda once said the dark side was quick and easy but not superior, but I think Dooku proved that wrong with how he improved.
Come to think of it, I think Dooku also showed how a true master of the force can only gain by using both the light and dark. Like Kyle Katarn, but on the Sith side.
you are doing a great job on your videos keep it up
Nope cannot do it, tried staying out of it can't stop myself. Look imo Dooku takes this fight 6/10. To prove my point let me answer some of the typical fanboy questions.
A) If Dooku can beat Windu, how come Anakin beat him?
Anakin is a master of Djem So the anti Makashi form as I call it. Anakin's form just perfectly counters Dooku's.
B) What about Vaapad, Dooku's dark side should only make Windu stronger?
Dooku has faced opponets who use Vaapad(Sora Bulq for ex) and faired well. So I feel as though Dooku would act accordingly. So Vaapad is not the wild card everyone tends to think it is.
C) But Windu beat Sidious and Sidious is better than Dooku?
It is debatable as to whether Windu beat Sidious, as Sidious allowed himself to be lured to the Window by Mace. The fight is just so debatable that it becomes invalid. However, even if you absolutely believe Windu beat Sidious. Dooku has fought Yoda on several occasions; and is even with Yoda in terms of force abilities. Furthermore in episode 3 Yoda disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber, so it is reasonable to say Yoda is a better duelist than Sidious.
You should watch this other video I made:
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html
See, here is my problem with the whole debate tho. For the sake of for sake, let's assume that Sidious is in fact stronger than Windu. What do you think would have happened if Anakin walked in a found Windu dead? Imo, Sidious had one goal in mind, convert Anakin!
I don't know if seeing Mace dead would have turned Anakin. That could have saved him from the dark if anything.
+Antoine Bandele Exactly, Palpatine knew this. Which is why I often dismiss the fight; Palpatine clearly did not want to win. Therefore, it does not matter as even if Palpatine is or isn't stronger than Windu; he had no ambition to win to begin with. Palpatine's goal was to turn Anakin to the dark side, he couldn't do that if Anakin walked in on Palpatine killing Windu.
Agreed on this, thank you.
You're welcome.
Thank you for using TCW in this!
Ksgamer103 Fo sho.
your videos are awesome
Thank you.
Hasn't Dooku defeated Mace in combat before?
They fought briefly in one of the comics but Dooku retreated and sicked his MagnaDroids on Mace. And as Jedi they both sparred frequently, Count Dooku besting Mace.
Dooku has so much potential in this versus series!! I wish there was more :/
I agree! I really do need to use him again.
5:03, It’s also important to note that innate Force potential as well as base physicality affected to what degree Force-sensitive could augment their attributes (Sidious being able to overwhelm younger Force-sensitive opponents being a prime example).
If were assuming Windu and Dooku’s Force connection and potential were relatively similar in scale, Windu would still have youth on his side, while if we’re assuming Dooku’s Force connection was stronger and channeling the Dark Side only made it easier to harness that connection, Dooku would have the advantage, which would be nullified by Windu’s ability to negate the Dark Side and his more honed combat skills due to him participating in several battles while Dooku spent much of the war as a political and business figure, manipulating the war from the safety of his palace.
8:51, In keeping with their personalities (Windu being a warrior that favored strength to defend the peace and Dooku being a strategist favoring precision to achieve desired outcomes) Windu is usually seen using telekinesis destructively or for large showings of strength, shattering droids and moving vehicles while Dooku demonstrated more precise displays of telekinesis, such as manipulating others motor functions (though he would occasionally display his telekinesis to be quite strong as well crushing a pillar’s base to drop it onto Obi-Wan and Anakin, collapsing a cave entrance to trap Obi-Wan and Anakin, knocking down several thugs and pinning Obi-Wan underneath a platform). Dooku, however, appears more likely to resort to using telekinesis in conjunction with close combat skills, sending objects at Windu in an effort to distract him or collapsing nearby structures to try and get distance from Windu.
You bring up some awesome points dude and I think the breakdown based on the designated characters point makes awesome sense! I think overall often these debates put one in a tough position position because the information we have to rely on is a mixture of film and literature/canon.
As it is though if Lucas wrote the books I would say the book is more reliable but Lucas's vision in essence was the film s d that's what I choose to go by. I feel it takes precedence regardless if he approved the authors ideas.
The characters in the films were considered the strongest for their era that's why Lucas used them. I've always heard that Mace was the best with a light saber and Yoda clearly with the force. The fights played out that way. It has to be viewed from a point of view where Mace and Yoda lost because the balance of power was destined to shift to the dark side.
The movies showed nothing is as it seems. Balance was brought showing that no side was greater than the other the force is the force. The façade that Palpatine presented in the old trilogy was that he was to strong to be defeated yet the real story was he nature "insidious" nature and cunning are what made him powerful. It didn't matter that Mace was arguably a better duelist it didn't matter that Yoda was equally knowledgeable of the force the end result is the dark side won and that's what they would use to instill fear into the heart of the galaxy. It did not matter that the fights could've gone either way Palpatine had set events in motion that couldn't not be reversed shifting the balance of power. Which would shift again when vader killed him. Doesn't matter that vader couldn't do it any other way. What mattered is the force was balanced again.
That's the beauty of these debates because if you put these characters in different situations you can argue that many of fights you posted would turn out that way. I like the way you think and I like the way a lot other out there think too in regards to these match ups. Keep it up dude! I'll def subscribe.
Trendt Setter Even looking at only the movies, Yoda and superior to Mace in sabers/force. So for Mace to outright disarm Sidious doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Unless Sidious was indeed playing possum.
This blog goes over this point in detail:
www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
But yes, I really enjoyed your comment. Sidious' greatest strength was in his cunning. When I first watched ROTS I never thought Sidious was this powerful warrior, just a conniving, behind-the-scenes fellow. But then the lore expresses otherwise, making him a pretty formidable opponent.
Generally, I do not like taking fights at face value. There is so much going on underneath and I believe there are certain individuals who are better suited to fight other individuals.
(Rolling eyes) next you'll probably say c3-po can beat Windu too. He Sidious but he can't beat dooku? These debates are starting to look illogical
+Khaleel85
Because C>A and A>B does not mean C>B.
Yeah, rotta the huttlet could to defeat mace according to these people.
+John “TurkeyLurkey” Smith It does work. Its math.
Umar Abdullah
The math on a fight is more complex than an inequality.
+John “TurkeyLurkey” Smith true haha
When he broke his concentration 😂😂😂😂
;-)
I think it is important to take into consideration Dooku's various dark side abilities. He was shown to have a series of abilities such as waves of darkness, some variation of force drain which trapped an opponent and force lightning. Also as you said he had the ability to conceal himself in the force.
Makashi is not necessarily weak against power based forms as it's parries are designed to redirect the kinetic energy of an opponent leaving them open. I think Dooku lost because he didn't even BOTHER to learn about a form 5 which he would have found distastefully unelegant, this would lead to a strategic blind spot as he wouldn't know how to properly redirect the blows of form 5 is a way he wanted, Anakin also MODIFIED his form with elements of form 3 to increase his mobility allowing him to keep up with the Count.
mate, why not put kyle katarn to work. he is a bloody powerful jedi.....
I never fancied post-ROTJ material. But I have considered Mara Jade.
understood, but katarn vs obi wan would make a great vid. i understand you arent quite into him, but he is a very important to the death star plans and the trilogy itself. ill sub you...... :D
Windu could mop the floor with Dooku, and the dueling abilities would have been a tie.
+Super Vegeta A purple fucking light saber
+Super Vegeta Extremely strong force powers, strong enough for him to crush Grevious' chest or send dozens of droids flying effortlessly.
God Vegeta lol more 7 year old insults
God Vegeta also if that was true how do you know it unless your me huh? your basically insulting yourself and stop trying to make me mad because it doesn't work lol im just laughing at your stupidity
What the hell is happening...
ild like to see more from both these two
I'm taking a break on Windu but Dooku I should do again.
My only thought about this fight is that Mace Windu, while a master of Vaapad, was not limited to one fighting style. As you pointed out, he was a master of all the Jedi stances. While he was known to use primarily Vaapad, any good fighter knows when to change stances, and against someone as competent as Dooku, Mace would likely rapidly change through the steps of other techniques to force his opponent to adapt on the fly.
The Mello Man Which Dooku has shown to be capable against. Remember that Grievous used all forms as well.
I like all the points that you make. I hpwever think Mace would overpower Dooku and win much for the same reasons that Anakin beat Dooku.
Not really anakin is physically stronger and faster than mace dooku has proven he can hold out against Anakins blows he can handle mace.
@@nationstremblebeforeme1487 In the ROTS novel, Anakin was astounded watching the fight between Mace and Palpatine, stating that they both moved faster than he could perceive. That, and Mace had beaten Anakin in dueling scenarios at the temple before. Anakin was not faster than Mace. Not even close.
@@jedimastermacewindu6930 definitely a better swordsman though by ROTS
I honestly don't know who would win. On one hand, Dooku wouldn't tire before Windu, or feed into Vaapad, and would be able to slip past his defenses. But on the other hand, Windu has mastered all forms of lightsaber combat, not just Makashi, can generate a lot of strength attacks, and can destroy entire armies.
This is the only VS you've done that I respectfully disagree on. But that's my opinion! Keep it up!
Dear Antonie,I have been following your star wars vs videos for a while now. Also I have been watching Evan novas, Grey jedi and Jennsari. All of you make very enjoyable videos, for which I am most grateful. I have analyzed, broke down and dissected each one with extreme scrutiny. After months of review, I have concluded that while most are always fair, yours hold the least amount of favortisim. You seem to be 100% fair about all sources and opinions, while the others, despite there best effort, tend to let there personal opinions slip in over the facts more often then you do. So you now win the official fairest judge of character award, and I declare you head of the Jedi councel! Grats Grand master, keep up the great work! and as always, peace, love and may the for be wiith you....always!
Thank you very much. I really need to re-do this one though.
Why this one in particular? did you feel there were some unfair assesments? Doku is a great warrior, but he is no match for mace. I realize he would not get any vamp off doku cause he is so calm almost serine in battle. That being said he is younger and a more versitle swordsman.
I think mace survived his death in ep 3
Per the novelization and the script, he did not.
aw
well r.i.p my fav Jedi of all time....
But recently Samuel L Jackson and George Lucas have agreed there's a possibility he survived
evan fdfdf For real?
Antoine Bandele why tf do you hate mace so much, i woundnt be suprised if you said c-3po coulf defeat windu
It always drove me nuts that we never got the chance to see these two duke it out onscreen. If I could have only one of my dream matches onscreen, this match would be it. Count Dooku vs Mace Windu is a fight Ive always wanted to see. This verdict I would of agreed with either way. Mace's abilities are a tidbit overrated due to his fight with Sidious as some confuse the nature of Vaapad. Mace is my favorite Jedi but I believe Dooku has a good chance at beating him as Makashi was designed for Lightsaber combat. I cannot stress how much of a joy this video was to watch Antoine, well done.
Lol that Pulp Fiction joke near the beginning.
+Morgan Swift It's something I've considered.
Mace would win. He nearly beat Sidious Dooku's master
www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
He beat sidius only because of eniken he died
Antoine Bandele Suppose things in a movie is stupid
Windu just raised his weapon. Sidious would annihilate him.
Sidious is better swordsman than Mace,and is way more powerful in the force.He killed 3 Jedi Masters in seconds,Mace don't even know what is happening
I always prefered a 'finessed' victory over 'brute and wild force'
But actually (a huge Dooku fan speaking here) I think Windu would actually take the victory. Mace was strong enough to hold of Sidious (even though that was due to Dark Side channeling) but Windu is far more stronger in physical terms and has age in his advantage.
Dooku, could surely match him, sure, but I think (even though he does enhance himself), if Windu manages to show some 'restraint' he might outlast Dooku.
Don't get me wrong, I love Dooku for his dueling style (if I was a Jedi and he was still a Jedi, I'd want to be his student!), but I think (like Skywalker) Windu could power through Dooku
LightingbladeShen If Mace holds restraint he would be done. Skywalker didn't simply power through Dooku of his own accord. He had help from Obi-Wan who tired Dooku out.
Antoine Bandele Exactly, don't you think Windu could hold himself back? He did know Dooku as they were both respected Jedi in the Order before the War. Dooku could try to 'taunt' Windu into cutting loose, but I think Windu honestly is capapble to resist that urge as he would know Dooku could capitalise on even the smallest of openings in Windu's defence.
LightingbladeShen I think Windu could only use his best (Vaapad) to combat against a master duelist like Dooku. If he held himself back or used a different form he was less proficient in, Dooku could cut through.
Antoine Bandele True, but I don't know. I think Windu still has an edge over Dooku...
Anyways, I seriously like these Versus videos! I shall keep an eye out XD
Vader, though Brute Force was also finesse ~ a great combination
Im Starting to get short on words to say... But... This Versus is really one of my favorites. So close, and so intense. It's Epic to just start to Think how this will go... Finnese and Skill of masters encarneted in this Two... One for the record Antoine, One of the most precise analysis for a battle :D
Thanks dude I try to think outside the box ;-)
Your videos are impressive
so by that logic John Stockton is beating Michael Jordan. yeah that's never happening.
Or Yamcha beating a Saibaman never happening
So by your logic, NBA = SW? Yeah that's never happening.
Bro what
Windu wins. I used to think that Sidious was toying with Windu in their duel in episode III. But people told me that the novelizations indicate that Windu overpowered Sidious. And in my view, if you can overpower the sith lord, then you can overpower Dooku. Yes there are many factors to consider, but I feel like Windu defeating Sidious should hold a lot more weight than people think. Especially considering I don't follow material that is not in the canon.
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html
+22dab95 that fight wasnt fair windu had 3 jedi helping him against sidious
+executive 1 Poor excuse considering the help that those 3 jedi provided was non-existent for the most part
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html
+executive 1 The people that think Sidious was toying with Windu are romanticizing the story and deviating from what we see in order to have what they think is a unique perspective. As soon as Sidious fought windu, he thought he would kill him and explain to anakin that Windu tried to kill him. But when things turned against Sidious, he had to change course. He did not stall. He was beaten and he had to turn anakin to his side. This theory holds just as much weight as the theory of Sidious stalling. Anyone that picks the latter theory obviously has a bias in one way, and the people that pick the first theory have a bias in another way. But if you examine the two theories, picking the first one is more reasonable because it leaves out the amount of variables that Sidious would have had to predict correctly and timely, assuming everything else would have fallen perfectly into position.
I don't actually believe Quey'tek would negate Vapaad. I assume Darth Sidious would also have been proficient with the ability, since he was forced to interact with the Council so frequently, and Mace didn't seem in any way hampered during their duel in ROTS; even using Vapaads circuit to redirect Sidious' force lightning.
I'm getting tired of this and I didn't check carefully so I don't know if you posted it but advantage to the victor?
Disagree with this one. Windu's perfecting and mastery of Vaapad/dark side channeling would destroy Dooku. There isn't enough evidence that Dooku would be insusceptible to dark side channeling, especially during a life or death duel. From what I know of the technique you mentioned that would shield him, there is simply no way he would be able to dedicate the necessary amount of concentration to it while avoiding the spiraling vortex of doom that is Mace Windu's Vaapad. And even without all that, Mace freaking Windu making a mistake that leaves him open to get Jango Fett'd? In his very own words to Dooku, "I don't think so."
Here's the thing though Dooku has already beaten a person with Vaapad so why couldn't he do the same thing with Windu
It's been stated by mace that sora was a regression from vaapad back to juyo as he became a berserker
Devontae Lafleur
The fact that Sora Bulq was more immersed in the Dark Side of the Force than Mace Windu would have actually enhanced the primary effect of Vaapad as it greatly depended on the inner-darkness of the practitioner to allow the darkness of opponent to pass through them, fountaining back upon them. Even so, Sora hadn't turned to the Dark Side when he fought Dooku.
john f kennedy vs jar jar binks
DO IT
***** until he was shot with a blaster sniper by deathstroke and deadpool
+Keiji Tan Jar Jar wins. He is the most powerful Sith, after all.
This one is soooooooooo damn close honest to god to me either they would stalemate or one of them would win barely. Great video.
This is definitely a tough one to tackle since there are so many variables. It could go either way, but I feel Mace’s speed and power by this point in the Clone Wars would play to all of Dooku’s weaknesses. He just can’t keep up with that level of performance, unless he was maybe 20 years younger. Even Sidious reached an impasse against Mace, so I think the count would face the same fate as he did against Anakin. Star Wars has only done a limited job on explaining the saber styles, and I find they vary based on description. Sometimes it sounds like Vaapad is the ultimate lightsaber form, while other times it’s more like Juyo in that it has defensive flaws. Mace just seems to be such a complete fighter that he can do it all, so I think he’d mow him down.
bruv what have you been snorting Windu would straight up dead dooku easy he is younger, faster, stronger and yes Dooku is a precise duelist but he would not have the stamina to keep up with windu
Antoine...I love your work...but you are killing me on this one...Dooku was the apprentice of Sidious...Windu took out Sidious fairly quickly. Sidious is so powerful he defeated Darth Maul and his brother while playing with them. Sidious could not be defeated by Yoda...Windu had the rare combination of physical, force, skill and experience in battle. He took Sidious lighting blasts and Sidious is supposed to be the fastest being in the galaxy and Windu defeated him. He would smack Dooku's old butt, faster than Anakin did. It would last about as long as it took Windu to disarm Sidious.
Brian Mahoney www.comicvine.com/profile/silver2467/blog/mace-windu-vs-darth-sidious-what-really-happened/77247/
Antoine Bandele Thanks for the link. I read the article and the writer uses the term "clearly stated" when the point he was making was not "clearly stated". As one other versus creator pointed out...Windu makes bonehead tactical errors. He misunderstood his shatterpoint. Bottom line, he disarmed Sidious and reflected the lightning towards him. Had Anakin not been a horse's rear. Windu would have defeated Sidious. Otherwise his head would have been on the table with the other Jedi's.
Brian Mahoney One could easily argue this ... why couldn't Windu save his Jedi colleagues if he was truly an equal to Sidious. The main point to take away from that blog was that Mace was amped in that specific scenario.
When Darth Maul was killed, they asked the question..."was the master or the apprentice killed". Neither Windu or Yoda had no idea how powerful Palpatine was. That is why Yoda got knocked down at the beginning of his fight with Sidious.Sidious speed caught them both off guard.
Brian Mahoney I agree, there is definatly a pecking order , a clear one at that since we are not comparing accross thousands of years. In and around this time, Anakin could defeat Dooku, Obi Wan could defeat Anakin, Sidious could defeat Obi Wan, and Windu could defeat Sidious. Im just trying to think as logical as possible, that since Windu could defeat Sidious sans Anakins intervention, this puts him higher up than the likes of Dooku. Respect and live either way to the guy who makes this vids, totally love em.
What is the clip from 5:42 from? Is it a game? A animated movie?
I think its from the old republic video game
Fractured Ramblings czcams.com/video/rPdJdEFilaU/video.html
Antoine Bandele Dang, I was really hoping it was a game. Like maybe some new reboot of KOTOR.
no forget the in cannon explanation, the only reason mace windu had a purple lightsaber is because samuel l jackson demanded it
Yep.
dooku is just like Mayweather.. they both run away from their opponents
Exactly
+Rafi Gallardo At least dooku had balls.
There's a difference between outfineccing easy opponents and outfineccing all opponents.
*****
Nah, simply just outfenced him.
Considering Mace wiped the floor with Sidious at lightsaber skills, he would have destroyed Count Dooku.
Wipe the floor? That's completely false.
czcams.com/video/thsFbDtLrVg/video.html&lc=z12ldjv4wqyqdfuhb04cgpajdojffdbyy3s
Well, if you really watch the movie, Mace Windu v. Sidious wasn't really that long of a duel anyway, and if Anakin hadn't stepped in, the Emporer would've died anyway. So, he didn't necessarily MOP the FLOOR with him, but the Emporer, Dooku's trainer, wasn't nearly as strong as Windu's capabilities. The thing is, Dooku's would probably get tired from Windu's continuous force augmentation, even though he could defend gracefully against most of them. If Windu's strength is at his height, then he probably would defeat him, simply because he knew that when he started to get tired, he would get more cautious and start to control his anger a little more, which meant that Dooku's endurance simply wouldn't last, but Dooku would probably run away if that happened, huh?
what music do you use when starting with the force abilities stuff and when you show a video from a game or a cartoon
great vid