Payback - One Story, Two Movies | Cinethesis
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2020
- A special thanks to director Paul Abascal and Mel Gibson's publicist Alan Nierob for their participation in the making of this video.
Instagram: / kylecorwith
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I remember watching payback as a teenager. I recently bought the film on blue ray with both versions. I watched the directors cut first, thinking it would just be added scenes and such.
I watched the third act thinking “this isn’t what I remember.” And all along the way I noticed slight differences that I shrugged off as poor memory.
Obviously I realized there were two different films.
But this sheds a lot of light on why, and I appreciate the directors cut that much more for it.
Yup! Same!
I just watched the directors cut today. It’s been at least a decade since I watched the theatrical version which I had on DVD. The theatrical cut is CLEARLY a better film!!
I was an extra on that film shot in Chicago. I was on the train at the end when all hell broke loose and was what I thought to be "really involved" and then when the film released in the theater I was so disappointed to see that they completely remade the ending. I finally got to see the original version and low and behold I saw myself, on screen no less than 15 feet from Mel Gibson! I was so excited, and am so grateful that Hollywood decided to release this version that I was a part of!
So cool! I would love to know the timecode so I could see where in that sequence you’re at…
wow, after watching this video i didn't know there were 2 versions of this movie! good job putting this together and i hope your channel grows
Thank you for saying so, and share gleefully!
I"m really curious what the original director thinks of the Theatrical Cut.
I had the VHS back in the early 2000s. I can't count how many times I've watched it. Last week I found a DVD copy at a local used book store I frequent on their buy 2 get one free rack. 3 movies for 4$. So I grabbed it. It's been years since I've seen it, and it was still as awesome as ever. The world it takes place in is so gritty and unique, I really would've loved to see it expanded on. I have only ever seen the theatrical cut but it seems the general consensus is it's superior to the alternate version.
You’d be surprised! There’s a mixed bag in these comments with love for the theatrical, and on the flip side, an equivalence of love for the director’s cut.
I prefer the directors cut because it's a throwback to classic 70s neo noir films like Get Carter or Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia. The theatrical version might have had a much more explosive ending and was more upbeat but I prefer the gritty and downbeat endings. I also like porter in the directors cut because he is more Anti-hero.
Your final line highlights another difference, in that in the theatrical you could argue he's not even an anti-hero, making the tagline "get ready to root for the bad guy" hollow. I am not automatically a "darker and edgier = better" guy but I'll take that over "this is too sad, make it happy!" studio meddling that we all claim to hate. It is ironic that it is in fact grittier even though it has warmer tones and the theatrical has the cringey, god-awful blue filter of the late 90s and early 00s. I can't tell which I hate more, the filter or Kristofferson as the villain.
I love both Versions but I do like the Theatrical version a little more but again both are Great
Love the video. Amazing how much you informed me on one of my favorite movies.
I'm actually shocked to hear that there is a director's cut of this film. I clicked on it thinking they were comparing the original *Point Blank* with Lee Marvin to *Payback* with Mel Gibson, both based on a Donald E.Westlake book called *The Hunter*. I loved the gritty noir original and thought the new version found itself torn between gritty and humorous and perhaps that's what happened with two directors. Now, I'm curious to see the Director's Cut to see if it holds up well.
I’ve read or listened to the entire Parker series. Amazing. Even the Alan grofiled spin-off is great. But I can’t find either Payback version in digital format. I’ll keep looking, and strongly recommend people who liked this movie to read/listen to the other Stark/Westlake creations
The directors cut is a masterpiece it's an Homage to neo noir movies like Michael Mann's Thief and Scorsese's taxi driver, the main point of thoes movies is not the plot but a character study it goes back to spaghetti westerns when the silent 'professional' comes to the crooked town to take what's 'hes' but great movies like that are mostly overlooked. the theatrical cut was more plot driven and politically correct (Basically leather weapon/any 90s action movie) its telling the audience that its OK to laugh at the violence and their are no consequences to the protagonist actions which is fine and admittedly entertaining but not true to the character of porter.
P.s thank you! for this work its one of my favorite movies of all time and don't have the recognition its deserves.
Theatrical cut is a better movie.
@@josephback-upaccount6116
In what ways?
Had this on vhs. Gritty... yes... controversial scenes... absolutely. That's what made this movie so good. A cynical comedy.....
Dark and I can't find this movie anywhere online!
One year late, but it’s free with Amazon prime at the moment! The theatrical is probably my favorite movie of all time.
Well done Kyle!!
I found Straight Up: The Directors Cut in Sam's Club while on vacation. My brother said, "Directors cuts are always a ripoff."
This is the exception. An incredible movie deserving of my Top 5 Favorites. The edginess and dialog feel far more realistic and not formulaic.
If you like this version I highly recommend the book, "The Hunter," which it was based on. There is an entire series.
The directors cut of Reindeer Games is also an exception.
I wonder if you've seen Get the Gringo w/Mel Gibson as well? I've always considered it a continuation of the Porter character, maybe a few years down the road. Check it out
Great video. I love watching them back to back
Do you prefer one over the other?!
@@KyleCorwith I think I enjoy the theatrical a little more but that's mostly due to nostalgia and the music. I'm a big fan of the Parker novels and The Director's cut feels much closer as an authentic adaptation.
@@josephswann5192 It almost seems you’re conflicted still. That’s what I love about having two quality versions of the same movie!
@@KyleCorwith Definitely am haha
i like the directors cut better Way Better Personally
Yes I thought so too and that's why I want to know if there's part 2.... Mel Gibson needs to bring us the 2...
I prefer The Theatrical Cut myself
More specifically, how so, more than the latter choice?
Same. Just watched the directors cut, and I wasn't that impressed.
I was on the set of the ending of the directors cut. Which is the original. When I first saw the release in theaters I was like damn. What happened to the ending? Glad they made both movies available. I like them both. Because I'm a Kris Kristofferson fan.
Neat! You were crew or extra? How’d that day go for you?
@@KyleCorwith yep extra. It was fun. Fun fact Mel Gibson had the flu during that part of the filming.
But Porter kidnapping his son made no sense. I always felt that way, even before the Director's Cut became known to me, and I would skip the end of the film because I hated it so much. Then, seeing the real, better, version of the film, I felt vindicated! The train station bit wasn't altogether surprising, as the trailer featured the woman shooting Porter (a part that was obviously not in the cinematic release).
P.S. I felt the same way about Biff in Back To the Future Part 2. Biff was a colossal dick, of course, but I didn't think he was capable of cold blooded murder based on how he was portrayed in the first film. Then I found out they did that with Biff because Crispin Glover refused to be in the sequels, and they apparently had to scramble to come up with a new plot.
@@wet-read Thanks for the BTTF info. I can't believe it took me until years after I saw it to realize that wasn't Glover in Pt 2. "He looks a little different... oh well." However I can see him taking that route. He did try to rape Lorraine, he wasn't completely harmless. And it does fit with the premise of an alternate reality where everything goes to hell. Do you know what George's original fate was instead of being murdered by Biff?
I didn’t even KNOW there was a directors
Cut version out there?!?
Check it out, come back and tell us what you thought! 😃
I much prefer the director's cut to the theatrical release.
The latter was a fun watch, sure, but once I saw the DC I realized how much I didn't like the narration in the TR.
After having watched the Payback numerous times, the gritty, raw nature of "Payback: Straight Up" was thoroughly refreshing.
Lols, "the payback", sorry the Dress Pirate Roberts, I know you're no one to be trifled with and have kicked the Andre The Giant's ass, but that made me chuckle, like when an old person says "I got the diabetes" or something. But ignore my inconceivable silliness, you go on saying things as you wish, ba boom chich (The Princess Bride was my fav along with Willow).
Dread, not dress, stupid spell word changer!
I remember seeing things in the trailer for the theatrical version that I wouldn’t see intercut until the director’s cut.
I was 5 when I saw this for the first time and I have no idea what version I saw. But I remember loving this movie and also Total Recall for the awesome violent scenes
Nice work!!
Best scene two dirty cops one black dude in predator was talking about his ice maker in the boat. "I think stiggys been holding out "
I think they should make a sequel to this called" back pay." Porter owes 43 000 in debt from a previous job and they want it back with interest
I much prefer Kris Kristofferson playing Bronson over the female villain in the Directors Cut. I feel like it was one of his better performances. I also liked Porter outsmarting them all to get what's his at the end over the alternate ending
have to agree,two main reasons why theatrical cut is way better for me...Adds way more coolness to the movie.
Always loved this movie but never knew there was 2 version of it....just wen ahead and bought the Blu-ray with both cuts so I can see them back to back myself
Precisely! And that’s the only way to do it. 😎👍
This was a very well put together video! Well done! 👍
Thank you, dear viewer! Which version do you like most, and why?
@@KyleCorwith The 2006 Straight Up - Director's Cut. I enjoyed it more because I liked the original vision that Helgeland was aiming for. He broke away from the traditional narrative that hollywood is known for, and went for a gritty non-traditional story about a hit/con man who wants his cut of the money back that was stolen from by a traitor, with a morbid ending that left a lot to be desired. I love the color in the DC version. Almost every scene is beautiful to look at. The new score composed specifically for the DC was very welcoming. I love the jazzy theme throughout the film. The theatrical cut is still good. It has the traditional happy ending that hollywood films at the time were known for. I can see why viewers were turned away from their favorite actor, Mel Gibson being the bad guy who did not mind throwing his wife down on the floor due to a misunderstanding. The ending in the DC leaves things left to be desired as to what the fate of Porter was. One of the reasons that I like the theatrical cut of Payback is that it unintentionally got an unoffical sequel called Get the Gringo in where Gibson narrates the film much like he does in Payback. Viewers like myself can pretend that Gibson is Porter in that film but with a different alias. 😉
All in all, I love both versions almost equally, but the DC edges it out a bit more for me. :)
@@Victory-in-YAHUSHA Love those thoughts. Especially about Get The Gringo. I remember the VO, but never thought of it as a possible secret sequel. That is cool!
@@KyleCorwith It sure is! Last thing to leave off with. About five or six years ago on this platform, I watched a scene from the workprint cut that was strangely missing in the Director's Cut that director Brian Helgeland had mentioned during the film's audio commentary. It was the scene where Porter had set a garbage truck on fire so that he could infiltrate the mob hotel. Before finding Resnick, the scene also showed Porter encountering a hood in an elevator with the next scene showing that Porter had ripped the hood's eye out. It was a poorly aged and hard to see scene that sadly no longer appears to on here as the uploader may have removed it.
@@Victory-in-YAHUSHA Found it. But you're right. Visuals are almost indiscernible. czcams.com/video/a67hqRkRw9o/video.html
Both versions of Payback are overall pretty good, but this raises a more interesting question than which one is better. If you were to make a movie, release two versions with slight differences, and arbitrarily assigned one at random as the director's cut that represents your original vision before studio suits got a hold of it would "real movie fans" like us just accept it as superior regardless of quality?
I can imagine that a few people might automatically feel that way because of one being the original director’s vision.
I didnt know there was another version! Hell yeah i have to find it.
Such a bleak badass film
one of my favorite movies.
Ive always been a cinephile, when Payback was shown during the PPV years back then on the old cable box me and my friends would watch it all the time. It was such a great film. Then years later when the straight up directors cut was announced and by that time every household had internet access and hundreds of film and dvd sites were still around I was fascinated about unknown original cuts, workprints and films abandoned by its directors/writers. This film is a great example of a directors vision and studio interference. Other films that are close to this in my opinion are Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut and Zack Snyder's Justice League (Snyder Cut) on how a director's vision is their own identity.
Dang! Why didn't this channel grow, get many more subscribers, and work out?! The content is great; properly researched, engaging, and well made with decent production, commentary, and editing.
What gives? Unless the channel stopped putting out content, I don't get it.
I'm not a movie buff by any means, but I love cinema. Secondary to the film itself, I enjoy reading trivia and watching interviews of how the movie was made etc... How in the hell did I not know about another cut of PAYBACK?! What is going on? My mind is blown. I stopped this video short to not ruin the third act and I'm going to watch it immediately!
I got the Bluray and watched the Director's Cut. I prefer the Theatrical Version. Awesome ending. Best line: "That's just mean, man!"
you can imagine..... growing up watching the original and then wanting to see it again. the streaming services had the directors cut AND BOY was i confused.
The video has become part-ways a PSA to combat that confusion. 😁
Is the theatrical version not available on streaming??? Because I like it more...
Exelentisima actuación, quisiera volver a verla
As of today, i cant find any version of this movie in any of the streaming services, what gives?
I bought the DVD like 10-15 years ago, put it in, and it was all different.
I was very confused, looked online and figured it out; then learned that the theatrical cut was out of print. It was very hard to find, but a year or so later, I found it at a used movie/video game store. It was like finding buried treasure!
I still prefer the theatrical cut(although I like both) and wish they would release a Blu-ray with both versions, or at least make the theatrical available on Blu-Ray for anyone that can't get a hold of it. I think even streaming on P+ you can only view the Director's cut.
One nice thing about the directors cut, is that despite losing the bleached out, almost black & white look, it looks great! In the featurette, they explain that all the files for the film were lost, so they had to dust off the old optical printers and cutting tables and assemble it the old fashioned way using pristine negatives.
Look for the UK blu-ray release. It has both cuts on it!
@@KyleCorwith Thanks!
Same I ordered my from the UK got them both on one disc Blu Ray
I like to be able to download both of them is there anyway to find them
The only way I can see you getting a hold of them is through physical media-which I highly recommend because companies are doing modern "book-burning" by taking away or altering digital copies at anytime.
www.amazon.com/Payback-Theatrical-Directors-Blu-ray-Region/dp/B00E3UJJGE/ref=sr_1_1?crid=26Y2MNARN47R5&keywords=payback+theatrical&qid=1693338602&sprefix=payback+theatri%2Caps%2C262&sr=8-1
i thought i was the only one that knew there as two different versions to this flick
Don’t understand why this movie isn’t streaming.
It is a compact neo-noir film. I like it. I watch it once a year or once every two years, but nonetheless, I enjoy it.
I hate what they did!!!!😡😡😡 I was watching on Amazon and I was going crazy how it ended!! I knew I wasn’t crazy
Watched DC version yesterday. And it has to be the only movie I know, that I prefer the original 1999. The DC version, just felt left open, most was not explained. Was the woman at the train station the same as the one on the phone?
And many of the Outfit members, were just forgoteen about. Even though they pursued Porter.
hm, theres something missing here... once they made the test screening , there have been various workprints around... the theatrical version was trash, it was ok but lacking alot of sense....there is a workprint with the "theatrical" filter and more scenes too .. there must be at least 4-5 different workprints around, and i have seen 2 that are not mentioned here but are known. Only thing i never heard of or have seen back then was a "directors cut" without the blue filter... theres one workprint with the blue filter and porter dying but winning. I think Helgeland himself should explain in detail what happened and what was the real idea without studio politics. I think the real version is the first workprint.
I got a hankering to watch this movie again but couldn't remember the name of it. So I Google Mel Gibson movies.
It's not even listed. So I tried Roku. Nope.
So I turned to CZcams. I had no idea there were two versions. I was worried the studio lost the rights to it and so it was banished from ever being seen again like Cacoon.
I wonder if the 2 versions is why it's not listed? Thankfully I still have my old DVD copy. Guess I'll have to check out the director's cut here.
Cool video
Love it!
I like the Director's Cut. I like that it's not a comedy, I like the washed out and gritty look, I prefer Porter's character to be as scummy and as bad as his adversaries, and I like that it's not trying to be clever. I think the story is way better without answering questions and bringing us along from Porter's perspective, rather than telling us a grand story of an organization of criminals that the Theatrical tries to tell. It's a gritty noir, and the Director Cut is exactly that, but the theatrical has way more charm.
The Director's Cut is a scummier story of blind revenge, and that's way more entertaining to watch, in my opinion.
The strange thing is that Payback is based on a serious of novels abd they took a book from a middle of the series. Jason Statham was in a movie with playing a sane character btw.
I think there's only two theatrical cuts I like much more, than Director's - this one, and Donnie Darko. 😁
New voice-over on Phone whimpy comical.
I saw the directers cut and was like WTF? Thats not payback.
Just watched theatrical
It’s FLAWLESS
Why do you think that?
Where can I watch the Straight Cut version for free?
CZcams
In uk we always get theatrical
This movie reminds me alot of Max Payne
Mel Gibson resembles Max Payne from the 2nd game.
Or rather, Max resembles him! 😉
It's also a remake
I prefer the theatrical cut, although I could do without the voiceover
Theatrical cut
I love this movie, but absolutely hate the directors cut. I’ve watched the theatrical version many times. As for the directors cut only watched once and had a hard time watching it even that time.
What works for you the most and what doesn’t?
Why? It is better.
When Men, were Men.
Pretty much.
Instead of having two versions of the story,
Why not mix them both up in one movie?
I watched them back to back and i loved the directors cut but the theatrical just feels off, the first half is a dark movie pretending to be light hearted and it doesn't work, the ending works a little better since its original but it doesn't make up for the awkwardness of the first half
I understand what you mean. The DC is a consistent vision, while the TC has variance and zags, and the changes become more noticeable when you’re aware of the BTS backstory.
@@KyleCorwithalso i think there was a mistake in your video
You said the real budget was 20 million but that was said by the reshoot director and i heard that the film got 20 to 30 million for reshoots so maybe the 20 million was just for reshoots and not the whole production
Did we even hear from Paul Abascal?
@@KyleCorwith Most definitely. I'd like to hear from him personally on some of the things you mentioned. Not taking the credit for instance. I would also like to hear about what it was like to pick up someone's work midstream, how his vision differed from Hegeland's. Anyway, interesting video, just seemed like a missed opportunity. Did you not record your interview with him?
@@mobiz711 We spoke over the phone intending on setting the record straight on who actually did the reshoots. But maybe a full interview as a separate video could happen.
Unfortunately, he recently declined being in a video about Payback. However, he has his own projects in the oven, so there may be a chance to talk about those when they come out!
Is the Directors cut the one where the top boss was a woman? Or was that yet another version.
Yes directors cut has the woman
The Original was much better
The studio reshoot cut is pathetic in comparison
Swapping out a never-seen woman's voice who sounds like Joan Rivers for the excellent Kris Khristopherson role was a terrible move.
Sally Kellerman of MASH fame, and they had to bring her in when they put this version back together because the original audio was lost when they dropped the original version. Angie Dickinson was the original voice.
@@roderickstockdale1678 *"Angie Dickinson was the original voice."*
... I was a big Angie fan back when she was "Police Woman." She was an integral part of my movement through adolescence. Still, this entire scene pales in comparison to the Khris Khristopherson scene.
I can understand the woman angle but Kristofferson is not remotely threatening as an antagonist. I like the idea of a disembodied voice we never see. The same way "I don't even get out of bed for 130k" it makes sense that the movie doesn't show the big bad for 130k, or 70, as it were.
@@speabody *"Kristofferson is not remotely threatening as an antagonist."
... Neither was Fairfax with his suits or Carter with his lip balm, ... but their personas still worked for the movie. Even so, the "Joan Rivers" sounding mob boss was a terrible alternative.
I never watched theatrical cut (it could be better indeed), because all I care about any movie is the director's original vision, and studio meddling doesn't interest me.
I recommend that it’s worth it because of the different watching experience.
With this particular movie I agree on that, because of Gibson's remark that both versions are good and have worth, but generally 90% of director's cuts are far better. @@KyleCorwith
The theatrical version is way better
I don't like how they went from overly blue to overly yellow, that's cheesy! art is more subtle than that!
I think both are vivid on opposite side of the visual spectrum. How do you mean by what you say about art?
@@KyleCorwith that you can do subtle color grading, like Joker where every post process color choice is pure bliss. Whereas this lazy and extreme "let's make everything yellow or blue" is just plain lazy and boring
And then you have Point Blank, the original movie
And then you have the actual original… the book, The Hunter. Dude, both movies are based separately on that novel.
Very disappointed with this and I am here for answers!
Wtf there are two versions?
Nothing can be done to the original that would make it better so ill just stick with that one, perfect dark thriller.
Didn't enjoy the director's cut. Think the theatrical version was far superior.
the theatrical is classic. the director's cut is awful also the theatrical release of Blade Runner is better than the directors' cut as well. Scott had to get rid of the narration and dot every eye. unnecessary.
The directors cut is NOTHING compared to the theatrical version. It was a BIG disappointment IMO. The music, lighter color scheme and removal of the intro and narrative really bummed me out. Theatrical version is the BETTER one IMO.
I like both versions, but prefer theatrical. It's like a Chicago pulp fiction
I respectfully disagree. I like the dark and gritty director's cut. I didn't like the light-hearted tone of the theatrical release.
Mels narration throughout is one of my favorite things about this movie.
I agree in my opinion there's only one PAYBACK and it's The Theatrical Cut That's not to say that PAYBACK STRAIGHTUP isn't a terrific film on it's own merits. I kind of like the idea of a mysterious female Bronson that's just an equally seductive yet terrifying voice on the
telephone. But overall I prefer The Theatrical Cut. I ❤️ The Blue Metallic Filter I love the narration that Porter gives. I love when he blows up the mobsters inside their 🚗 while they're trying to blow him up with a ☎️ 💣 and than he uses said ☎️ 💣 to blowup Bronson at the end. I also think the opening scene with The Crime Dr is AWESOME. If PAYBACK STRAIGHTUP were the only version than it would be PRETTY DAMN GOOD But in my opinion The Theatrical is BETTER.
@@DreddPirateRoberts Lighthearter Porter loses two toes FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!
Directors cut sucked, i expected it to be better but was dissapointed.
It was closer to the book so I appreciated it
way too much bass
It's a "bassy" song!😆
That is just a remake of Boorman's Point Blank with a happy ending or a less ambiguous ending, isn't it? What happened to original stories of at least admitting to a remake?
I guess when kids have never heard of Pink Floyd you can get away with this kind of con. When Oppenheimer gets an Oscar then IMAX or not Cinema is dead.
Nolan is just beating on a dead horse with a con of 1570 format that was hardly even there.. Give it up and let it rest in peace for God's sake.
Preferred the director’s cut. Much more alike tonally to Lee Marvin’s original version.
The director's cut absolutely failed! Totally sucked!
The 'Director's cut' sucks
The director‘s cut was better.
Just watched it and disagree.
One of the few sane ones lol
The original version is too stylized for my taste. The deep blue is definitely a 90s thing. That was going on in films at the tail end of the 90s. The new version is a much more complex noir.
You describe why I think The Matrix is overrated af. Talk about too stylized, you got sunglasses, long trenchcoats, slow motion, expressionless dialogue, all with a blue filter on top. Trenchcoats, leather, sunglasses, and blue filters, it all screams "we're, like, so KOOL." This is not old age revisionism either, I was in my early 20s when I saw it and came to this conclusion.
Similarly Porter in the theatrical is portrayed as cool, very intentionally so.