🎹 Kawai CN201 vs Roland RP701 | Digital Piano Comparison & Review 🎹
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
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#KawaiCN201 #RolandRP701 #DigitalPianos
0:00 - Video Introduction on the Kawai CN201 vs Roland RP701
0:11 - Product Shots of the Kawai CN201 and Roland RP701
1:08 - Opening Playing Demo/Sample on the Kawai CN201
1:30 - Opening Playing Demo/Sample on the Roland RP701
1:50 - Video Overview on the Kawai CN201 and Roland RP701
3:23 - Piano Sound Discussion on the Kawai CN201
4:01 - Kawai CN201 Upgrades
5:30 - Polyphony on the Kawai CN201
6:33 - Piano Demo on the Kawai CN201 core Piano Samples
6:45 - Kawai Cn201 SK-EX Piano Tone Demo
8:05 - Kawai CN201 EX Piano Tone Demo
8:46 - Kawai CN201 Upright Piano Tone Demo
9:32 - Discussion on the Kawai SK-EX and EX tones
10:29 - More samples on the Kawai CN201
11:52 Additional Tones on the Kawai CN201
13:10 - Organ Sound Demos
13:45 - Conclusions on additional tones on the Kawai CN201
14:33 - Review: Piano Sound Discussion on the Roland RP701
15:05 - Piano Sound Demos on the Roland RP701
17:25 - Upright Sounds on the Roland RP701
18:21 - E-Piano Tones on the Roland RP701
19:07 - Additional Piano Tones on the Roland RP701
20:08 - More playing demos on the Kawai CN201
20:43 - More playing demos on the Roland RP701
20:55 - Conclusions on the Piano and other tones on the Kawai CN201 v.s. Roland RP701
22:50 - Piano Sound Spec Slide
23:02 - Piano Action Review begins
23:44 - Piano Action Texture on the Kawai CN201
24:32 - Roland RP701 Action Review
24:54 - Piano Action Texture on the Roland RP701
26:32 - Piano Action Spec Slide
26:43 - Piano Features Review
30:08 - Additional Features on the Kawai CN201 and Roland RP701
33:01 - Piano Features/Connectivity Spec Slides
33:22 - Video Outro
Hi all and welcome to the Merriam Pianos CZcams channel. Today we’ve got a piano comparison video that should be very relevant to many of you as we enter the holiday season as we see how the brand-new Kawai CN-201 matches up against the Roland RP701.
These pianos compete directly against one another in the market so this should be a very interesting comparison.
Background
The CN201 and RP701 are very well matched for a number of reasons, not least of which is the fact that they’re very close in price.
That said, they’re actually quite distinct in what they have to offer musically, so as is always the case with our videos, we hope this comparison can help make the research process a little bit more enjoyable for you if you happen to be considering these two options.
The CN201 is laser-focused on the acoustic piano experience, while the RP701 offers a wider breadth of overall experience and a more advanced companion app with the Roland Piano App.
Piano Sound
The CN201 is the follow-up to the hugely popular CN29, which was very dominant in its category. The CN201 carries on this tradition, and they've actually managed to improve the sonic experience with some new signal processing, though the same Progressive Harmonic Imaging sound engine returns.
The RP701 is using Roland’s SuperNATURAL Piano sound with 256 notes of polyphony, and the first thing you’ll notice is the massive collection of 324 onboard tones, with 14 acoustic piano patches alone. The core acoustic piano patches are very good, as are the e-pianos especially. We would give the nod to the CN201 in terms of the grand piano sound, but the quality of non-piano sounds is higher on the RP701.
The other key difference is the speakers. The CN201 is using a powerful 40-watt speaker system, compared to 24 watts on the RP701.
While there isn’t a huge difference in power in the mid and upper registers, the CN201 has significantly more punch in the lower register.
Piano Action
Kawai brings back the RHIII action in the CN201, however, this is an improved version of the action with better key cushioning. This reduces mechanical noise, and should also improve the RHIII’s long-term durability.
Over on the RP701, we have another action that happens to be a favorite of ours here at Merriam Pianos with the PHA4 Standard Keyboard action. The PHA4 also has a triple sensor, escapement and textured keytops.
Conclusion
Thanks for watching! We’ve got two great options here, though as we said at the outset, the CN201 is geared towards the more authentic piano experience for the money, while the RP701 is a more versatile digital instrument.
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excellent ! thank you so much for doing this !!
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Can’t even afford these but love watches stu’s reviews ☺️
We appreciate you tuning in! Thanks so much for supporting our channel! :)
Thanks Stu and Merriam Music. Wish I was there to visit in person. 👍🏼
You're very welcome! If you're ever in the Greater Toronto Area in Ontario, Canada, please stop by! :)
@@MerriamPianos - you got it :)
Haven't watched the video yet, however I still choose the Kawai. It sounded so good in your past videos🎹🎶
The Kawai digital pianos' SKEX samples are very difficult to beat. That is for sure! :)
excellent, thank you.
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Nice review. By the way, as someone who has had to start wearing headphones for practice all the time now, I have a better appreciation for your hairstyle.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and for the kind words! It is very difficult to maintain flawless hair when playing with headphones. ;)
Stu, I don't know what I enjoy more, your beautiful talent and improvisation skills or your wealth of technical piano knowledge. Thank you for your reviews.
I read a review online that the RP701 has more of brassy, metallic twangy sound in the middle octaves when playing louder, that the speaker wattage is too low compared to the CN models. Also the factory stretched tuning is not user adjustable and might appear sharp on the higher octaves and flat on the lower. Have you or anybody else found this to be so?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in! I will happily pass along your very kind words to Stu! :)
In my personal experiences, I have not found the RP701's middle octaves to sound twangy. Its sounds are not as warm as the CN201 or CN301 models, but I personally wouldn't describe the tone as twangy. I find it to be quite well balanced throughout the instrument's entire register. As for the tuning appearing sharp on higher octaves and flat on lower octaves, once again, I have not personally noticed this issue. I suppose every player will have varying degrees of sensitivity when it comes to these details, but I quite enjoy the RP701's playing and sonic experience.
Niezdrowe reklamy wykańczają serce i mózg!!!
I definitely agree with the notion. Thanks for tuning in! :)
Finally I decided for Kawai CN201 out of following 1000-1500 EUR models (sorted by price in 2022): AP470, RP501, CN29, YDP-164, AP-650, YDP-165, RP701, CLP-725, CN201, HP702.
Reasons which for me were mandatory, maybe it will help for someone:
Casio AP470 (~1000EUR): no escape/let-off, 2x12W speakers (CN201 has 2x20W), no bluetooth, no display
Roland RP501 (~1100EUR): 2x12W speakers (CN201 has 2x20W), Polyphony 128 (192 at CN201)
Kawai CN29 (~1100EUR): predecessor from CN201, no BT audio, "old" RH3-action (CN201 has improved one (it is more quite))
Yamaha YDP-164 (~1150EUR): no escape/let-off, no bluetooth, no display
Casio AP-650 (~1150EUR): no escape/let-off, no bluetooth, doesnt look classic (too many buttons on the front)
Yamaha YDP-165 (~1200EUR): no bluetooth, just 10 voices (vs 19 at CN201), no display
Roland RP-701 (~1200EUR): 2x12W speakers (CN201 has 2x20W), not so natural piano sound (generated but not sampled)
Congrats on your new Kawai CN201! It is an exceptional digital piano and one that I know you will be absolutely thrilled with! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, insights, and research. I'm sure many of our community members in the market at this price point will appreciate it. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank You for Your reviews! I love how Stu explains the technical differences, I learned a lot here. And for sure the side-by-side specs comparison boards you are builing in the video is a briliant idea, since just talkig might be not clear sometimes and one has to search the right moment in the video.. but with your talking+boards it is easy to understand and see wrap up so to say a the end. Thank You for Your job guys!
A Kawai piano just has a way of melting me with the way they sound
I couldn't agree more! The lush, warm tone is quite captivating! Thanks for tuning in! :)
Hello Stu. Regarding your comment on 5:39 of whether the CN201 has the samples of the K-60 or K-600... well, since I raised the question in a previous video, I will then answer it. I contacted Kawai Australia, Kawai US, and Kawai Global. Yes, the samples in the CN201 are from the K-60. Kawai Global assured me that's the case. It is not the K-600, and it is not an artificially modified grand piano sound. I also wanted to say that it is a pleasure dealing with Kawai: they are very courteous and take plenty of time to address your questions. Not related to this comment, but I also want to say that their website is probably the most flexible and versatile of any digital piano manufacturer.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for doing the detective work on that and clarifying. I certainly agree with your assessment of Kawai. They are a truly wonderful company to deal with on all levels! :)
Got the Roland about a week ago, and having played a Yamaha p-45 I would honestly say the rp701 out of box somewhat lacks in tone. I thought the way the sound sustains is a bit weird i.e. the pedal holds the note but the richness disappears quickly. Its a more expensive keyboard than yamaha p-45 but I seem to enjoy hearing yamaha better.
I am sorry to hear that you are not completely satisfied with your RP701. With that said, tonal tastes are very subjective and personal. There is also a matter of getting familiar and used to a new sound/instrument. The great thing about the Roland tone engines is that they are quite flexible and you can achieve a lot of different sounds by tweaking specific parameters. :)
Great compare. This review has the Roland sounding pretty good compared to your older reviews. Are you using the headphone equalizer or did you tinker with the settings? What is the device you used to put the two lines into a single headphone out? I can't read the label. Does it process the signals?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks so much for tuning in! We appreciate it immensely. We are not using any post-processing on the piano sounds to ensure complete transparency of the sounds provided. We simply take the line out (or when not available, headphone outs) from the piano to a recording interface. No effects, equalization or processing is done on the sounds though. Thanks and hope this helps! :)
What is that recording interface? I'm still new to that and want to make videos playing the piano
Hi Stu, thank you so much for these videos. I am a complete beginner. I tried out the kdp-120 and the RP701 and I’m conflicted. The KDP action seemed quite simple while the Roland action seemed more like an acoustic piano. Moreover, when I pressed notes harshly on the KDP I felt like it largely amplified the sound while the Roland produced a change in tone. I personally found the tones on the two pianos different but equally pleasing. Is my assessment accurate? Is there more expressivity built into the Roland? I presume the Kawai could sound louder and fuller but I’m not in a position as a beginner to fully appreciate this. Ultimately I want to play Claire de Lune with as much expressivity as possible. Which one should I get? Thanks!
Hi Stu, I ended my dilemma. After your reviews of kdp120 and cn201, it just was clear to me that the cn201 had just way more harmonic information than kdp120, and the Roland, while producing beautiful sounds, did not compare with the beautiful acoustic sound of the Kawai. I decided to shell out more money and go with cn201 and hope it will last me for a much longer time!
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks so much for tuning in! It sounds like you have stumbled upon a "best of both worlds" solution in the CN201. In addition to the wonderfully warm SKEX samples of the KDP120, the CN201 also offers a more sophisticated action with "escapement". Enjoy your new CN201! :)
@@MerriamPianos Thanks, this video on the CN201 vs RP701 was most telling for me. The CN201 simply sounded more pleasant while the Roland had a `bell' tone sound for me. In any case, probably these differences are minor in comparison to the player's ability. Seeing so many of your videos I realized that this hunt of the better musical instrument is sort of an endless abyss---there is always something that sounds better. I just checked out the video on the Estonia L190 and I'm mesmerized.
KAWAI sound came from a real piano, Roland is computer generated sound...yeah
Out shopping for a new digital piano and your videos are among the best - thanks! Could you do a comparison between CN301, CLP735 and what model Roland got up there? This is the level I'm trying to find a piano in, right now I think I'm leaning towards CN301.
We will definitely be releasing some comparison videos featuring the new Kawai CN301 as we just received our first shipment of the model a few weeks ago. Thanks for the suggestions and be sure to stay tuned! ;)
Hi Stu.. Can you do a video comparison Kawai CN301 vs Roland HP704?
Hi! Brent here! Thanks so much for the suggestion! I will pass it along to Stu and our production team and we will do our best to tackle it for you. :)
Hello Stu,can you give any advice what to do while being on holidays without piano? There are a kind of rollup portable ones which are easy for the suitcase. Any suggestions?
Always a pleasure to see hour videos❤
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! We have many customers that purchase a highly-portable digital piano to travel with such as the Casio PXS1100 or Roland FP10. Thanks and hope this helps! :)
@Cor I sympathise, but I cannot recommend a roll-up keyboard. The worst thing you can get is an 88-note keyboard without a weighted action. That is the worst of both worlds. I have just returned from a long motorhome tour on which I couldn't take my favourite piano. I had a slimline 73-note "semi-weighted" keyboard. Boy did I suffer! Slimline is good when you travel, but sometimes 88 is simply too many keys while travelling and practising in confined spaces. Very few manufacturers are addressing this problem adequately if at all.
There are several 61-note instruments with unweighted keys. Sometimes these keys look much like piano keys. The best are probably the Casio CT-S1 and the Roland Go Keys. And there are 2 (inexpensive) models that I know of with 73 semi-weighted keys. They are the Thomann (Europe) SP-120 and the Yamaha Piaggero NP something. Semi-weighted is not really weighted at all, but with a tighter key spring. They are hard to play pianistically, but marginally better than totally "unweighted". Then there is the Yamaha P-121 with 73 weighted keys. I recommend buying this as a travel piano if at all possible. Anything else with a fully weighted action and fewer than 88 notes/keys costs over 1000 euros. It's a shame that Casio hasn't produced a 73-note version of the (lightweight) PX-S1100. Even if it were only a CDP 73-note model, that would be useful.
@@Zoco101 So many thanks for the detailed answer, very appreciated 🥰 👌 what about the Roland GO-61 K? Of course, only 61 keys but for exercising?
@@cor3944 from an exercising perspective, the Roland Go Keys is better than nothing.
It's a nice piano-like keyboard, and maybe it has many uses, but logically, you train your fingers/hands/body better with a weighted action.
The Donner Dep-20 (with 88 weighted keys) is only slightly more expensive than this and than the Casio CT-S1 , but if you can't fit 88 or even 73 keys in you car/boat/plane/cabin, well you can't, and manufacturers should take note. Some (concert?) pianists actually paid to have Yamaha P-80s cut down to a smaller size. They needed a weighted action piano in their hotel rooms, but a full 88 didn't fit in the airplane cabin lockers.
you can find piano schools in most places and no harm just asking if you can rent their piano to play. the advantage is you don't have to lug a heavy instrument along and it's a chance to play different instruments
Ehh happy with my kawai cn120, but i love these videos and these days that keyboard sound palette would make me possibly go for Roland now
To get that on kawai i need to hook it up with ipad( garage band software)
It is a very tough decision between Kawai and Roland these days! Both companies are making stellar digital pianos. :)
Hey Stu, I was wondering if it would be possible to achieve a "Felt Piano" sound on the Kawai using the app to alter the sound?
Hi! Brent here! If you experiment with the various adjustable virtual technician parameters, it is possible to get something fairly similar to that tonal profile. It will take a little bit of experimentation, but the range of possibilities is quite impressive. :)
Thanks so much Brent! Another question: I've come across a good deal on a Roland FP-90x in my local area (Denmark), and am now considering it over the two pianos in the video. How would you compare the FP-90x to the RP701? Haven't found anyone online drawing that exact comparison.
Also thank you so much for the immense help with my piano research!
Would love a video comparing the roland 701 and 107!
We just received our first shipment of RP107 models recently, so you can definitely bank on some comparison and review videos coming out very soon. We appreciate the suggestion for the RP701 and RP107 comparison and will do our best to tackle it. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank you for responding. Cant wait!
The store rep managed to convince me to go with the Roland RP701 because according to him they invented the Digital Pianos and are a step above Kawai and Yamaha...
So much for that. I had a CN34 and was looking for something similar, couldn't find any successors to it and the store had no CN models and I can't seem to find them in Australia, so I ended up getting the Roland. There are CA models, and some Yamaha in the same price I saw. Did I make a mistake?
Hi there! I don't think the Roland RP701 is a mistake by any stretch. It is a wonderful digital piano with one of the most revered actions in its price category (PHA4). The CN201 is also a fantastic instrument. The decision ultimately comes down to the preferences of the player. Some players will gravitate towards Roland's tone and touch, while others will gravitate towards Kawai's.
It's a great piano so I don't think it's a negative at all.
yesterday I tested p30x and rp701/ even though they have the PHA 4 keybed/ for me it seemed much more robust and more solid action on the rp701...what do you think? is it an improved action?
@@johnnylong2023 I am nowhere near expert enough to give you the objectively right answer, but I will tell you that in my opinion, you should absolutely go with whatever feels nicer for you. At the end of the day, you won’t be staring at the inner mechanism of the piano, but you will be constantly feeling the mechanism when you press the key. So you should get whatever feels better to your fingers, even if it is “objectively worse”.
Que tal amigo podrías comparar el yamaha mx88 vs el rolan juno DS 88
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you for the suggestion! While we tend to focus more on digital pianos opposed to digital synths, I will certainly add the suggestion to our list of potential review/comparison videos for the future. Thanks again and all the best! :)
Solid work, as always. The Kawai clearly sounds better to me in this case, though I'm very impressed with the higher end Rolands.
In the review of the Kiyola, Stu said that model was basically in the league of some much larger pianos like the LX705, so how about a comparison video of those?
Thank you kindly! We do our best to tackle as many video comparisons as possible and will definitely add the KF10 versus the LX705 to the list. Thanks for the suggestion! :)
The Roland Kiyola has a large sound bar underneath the piano. The only other piano that comes to mind with a similar design is the Yamaha Clavinova CLP-775 in the sense of the sound bar, although the CLP-775 has larger speakers and more powerful amplifiers. I know there are several digital pianos with speaker boxes on the bottom, such as the Roland LX705, Yamaha CLP-785, Yamaha AvantGrand N1X, Korg G1 Air, Roland DP 603, etc. But a sound bar shaped in the style of the Kiyola... only the Yamaha CLP-775, that I can think of.
Hey, I'm having a trouble picking between these 2 models, I think the kawai has a more acoustic tone and feel than the roland based on many people's review? I want to get the best experience in playing classical music. What is the best between these 2 models for clasiccal music and what feels the closest to a real acoustic piano based on tone and touch? thank you
Hi! Brent here! I would say that both pianos have excellent and comparable actions with a decent pivot length and excellent escapement/let-off simulation. For me, the CN201 is more aligned tonally with classical playing. However, the Roland RP701 is quite versatile too! My recommendation would be to test out both at a showroom to determine which one you connect with more musically. :)
@@MerriamPianos to further @dre1382 Q on classical, what about sensitivity, capability of dynamic range between simultanious (chord) notes (AKA voicing)??? My entry level P225 is incapable of this.
Is it possible to download and install more instrumental sound samples for the Kawai? I know I can adjust the sounds in the app, but is it possible to load more samples with the app or by connecting to a PC? For its price, 19 samples are just not enough...
Thanks for the question! You can't physically upload more samples onto the onboard sound engine. However, because the CN201 has MIDI output, you can use it to control virtual instruments VSTs) and sample libraries on your computer. :)
@@MerriamPianos Wow, thanks for the super quick answer! I'm considering VSTs, but that's a bit of work + I think I'd need a dedicated sound card in my PC. I already tried playing with a VST on Roland FP-10, I think I used Sforzando and I had annoignly big latency. Someone said that installing a buffed sound card would fix that, is that right?
Hi, I am a beginner pianist looking for a digital piano to study on and I was wondering what is the main difference between those piano and somerhing like the Roland fp30x/60x. What would you suggest between the two?
(I’m sorry in advance for any mistakes but english is not my first language)
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! The CN201 and RP701 have a lot of similarities in terms of touch (they're both heavier fully-weighted actions with escapement), features, and aesthetic. With that said, the CN201 has a more powerful speaker system (40W versus the RP701's 24W). Both of these pianos have a very different tone as well. The CN201 is warmer and the RP701 is a little brighter. However, these tones can be altered using a variety of adjustable parameters. The FP30X and FP60X are quite similar (same core PHA4 action and SuperNATURAL tone engine). However, the FP60X has a more powerful, top-facing speaker system, more built-in sounds, and more features. It really comes down to a matter of personal preference. For me, the CN201 would be my top choice between all of these instruments. I find it to provide the most authentic musical experience from this lot, but that is also reflected in the higher price point. Pianos like the HP702 or HP704 from Roland would be more in line with the CN201 in terms of quality tier. :)
@@MerriamPianos yesterday I tested p30x and rp701/ even though they have the PHA 4 keybed/ for me it seemed much more robust and more solid action on the rp701...what do you think? is it an improved action?
What about Korg G1b Air in comparison to these two? Seems it also has great key action and feel
Thanks for the suggestion! We are not Korg dealers at this time, so it may be difficult to tackle a review/comparison of that model. But, given that we do receive digital pianos on trade sometimes, we will do our best to tackle that for you if the opportunity presents. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thank you very much
The Kawai sounds just like a high quality acoustic piano to my ears.
The rich, warm tone of the Kawai CN201 is fantastic and one of the most authentic sounding piano tones you will find in a digital piano at this price point. :)
Roland older basic models sounds great ,however, the more sophisticated they grow...i switch to Yamaha and kawaii...... CNs will not disappoint you, don't go beyond cn 701
The Kawai CN series instruments are awesome! However, so it the Roland RP701. They offer a slightly different flavour musically, so every player will have their own personal preference.
I always thought piano sounds on lower-mid-range digital pianos were fair to not so good. They all sound tinny and thin. Closer to harpsichords that real pianos. I did not realize how bad they were until I started listening to Stu's VST reviews and started using higher end VST pianos like Pianoteq and Addictive Keys grand. I can never go back to these pianos for their native piano sounds. The electric sounds/strings/etc. are all pretty good. But honestly forget piano.
Higher end VST starts around VSL Vienna, Yamaha CFX, or Steinway, this is the best VST :)
The work being done on the VST piano plugin front these days is impressive to say the least! I mean, on a certain level, it does make sense. When a company is fully-dedicated to producing the very best samples exclusively, it is understandable that they will have a slight edge over the company's building every aspect of a digital piano (from the tone engine to action to the enclosure itself). Thanks so much for tuning in and taking the time to write in! :)
Hello, I'm going to buy my first digital piano. It is better the Yamaha CLP-725 or this Kawai CN201? (I can't try them on physical shop unfortunately)
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! That is a very subjective question to be hones. I personally prefer the warmer tone on the Kawai CN201's SKEX samples. Hopefully, our review videos will help you in your decision making process. :)
@@MerriamPianos Yes thank you. I am not conviced on the Kawai because a lot of people complain about the keyboard being too bouncy while Yamaha has better keyboard although it lacks connection like MIDI and native bluethooth
All I can say is that after being Roland digital piano user for almost two years (three different digital pianos and a MIDI controller), I will not get a Roland digital piano again. The last one was FP90X that was returned for credit almost two month ago. I would love to have a Kawai digital piano but I do not like their plastic actions. Stu was wrong about static weight needed to move middle C on PHA-4 - it is 62g.
Everyone will have their preference of course. If you are interested in a wooden action Kawai, there is always the VPC1 controller and the MP11SE. They are both excellent instruments! :)
@@MerriamPianos I am definitely looking at them as an option. Thank you
You just bought Kawai ES 920, Whats your opinion?
@@evadahlgren6389 Yes and no 😄 In reality I do not have Kawai ES920. I think, it may have indirectly answered your question. 😊 I can definitely say that the price of this digital piano is very competitive taking into account its features. I only use one or two acoustic piano sound so it would have been an overkill for me.
@@mfurman but you ordered it 10 days ago, i read your comment under another video..., i hoped i get some feedback about es 920 from you 🙂
Very informative but the Kawai is about 2x the price of the Roland. $3,000 vs $1600. I thought these would be approx the same price...perhaps the HP 702 is closer in price, but still a few hundred less than the Kawai CN201
It ultimately depends on which market you are in. In Canada, the CN201 sells for $3000 and the RP701 sells for $2549. So, from that perspective, they really are in the same ballpark price category as far as Canada goes.
@@MerriamPianos oh ok. Thank you!
@@MerriamPianos 1000 dollars,❤ can buy rp701 in China
In my country (Indonesia) the roland is around 1000 usd and the kawai is around 1100, idk why its cheaper than other countries maybe the models for my country is manufactured here knowing many big brands such as roland, kawai, and yamaha opened factories in Indonesia or close to Indonesia.
Great and I love upright new sample in kawai.👍But i don't like Kawai grand warm sound.I love Stainway sound.Roland Tin sound😭
Every player is a little different and will have their own personal preferences when it comes to tone. With that said, I definitely agree with you on the Kawai uprights samples. They're excellent and offer a truly authentic sounding upright tone when it is the preference over a grand sound.
I am just commenting to get a comment back from Brent :P
See you on the 21st Brent :)
Haha I appreciate that! Very much looking forward to it! I will see you on the 21st! :)
There is one spec that is always mentioned in digital piano reviews: amplifier rated output. It is implied that more watts = more bass or more volume. It seems pretty reasonable. But the issue is more complex, and these are some of the reasons:
1) How do you know that the amplifier rated output is actually ever used? The assumption is probably that, as you turn the volume knob up, the amplifiers give more and more power until they reach their maximum rater output. It seems reasonable... but is this the case?
2) More watts = more bass? It depends on more than just amplifier power alone. It also depends on speaker design and signal fed to the amplifier.
3) Twice the power = 3 decibels more volume with identical speakers. Three decibels is really very little difference. More power might translate in very little improvement.
So, how meaningful is really more amplifier rated output? Can we conclude, on a solid basis, that more watts is a clear indicator of more bass or more volume?
There is, on the other hand, a spec that is never mentioned: power consumption. What is it? Neither Kawai nor Roland are very specific.
Kawai says the CN201 consumes 12 watts, and Roland says the RP701 consumes 20 watts. But under which conditions? It is not stated.
Roland goes even further to state that the RP701 consumes just 3 watts when turned on and nothing is played, and 4 watts when playing at medium volume. This means 1 watt from the amplifier for a reasonably loud volume.
So, here are some questions:
1) Does Kawai 20 watts per channel is really meaningful in real life? Can we conclude that it translates to more bass? Can we attribute the more bass-presence to something else, other than the amplifiers? For example, a sample that delivers more bass content, or a pre-equalization that enhances the bass content?
2) Should we also mention the power consumption as meaningful, or only the power rated amplifier output should be mentioned? How do we make sense of these specs? How do we know that we have interpreted the specs correctly?
3) How much power do these instruments consume in real life when playing at reasonable volume levels?
4) Can we make inferences on the sound based on amplifier rated output? Or are there other specs, parameters, and design principles that should be looked at?
I am planning to do some tests and share what I find in future Merriam videos.
There is another issue I forgot to mention: amplifiers can be rated at 4 ohms or 8 ohms. Half the impedance draws twice the power. How do you know if Kawai stated the power at 4 ohms or 8 ohms? How do we know if Roland stated their power at 4 ohms or 8 ohms? If Kawai decided to state their output at 4 ohms and Roland at 8 ohms, then the RP701 would be rated close to 24 watts per channel at 4 ohms.... in other words, we really don't know much about the meaning of these specs and how they translate into meaningful statements in real life. We don't even know whether they are using 4 ohm or 8 ohm speakers either.
Thanks for writing in with the very detailed message and analysis. To your point, I think we will only really know the details and specifications that the manufacturer's disclose with us. There will always be some questions or mysteries behind the finer details of their decision decisions or how they are calculating/measuring certain specification quantities.
In terms of your question regarding Kawai's 40W speaker systems, they do have wonderful bass response. From my perspective, I believe it is a combination between the speaker voicing and the fact that Kawai's SKEX samples are incredible warm with very prominent bass.
Hopefully, some more investigation will lead to more answers regarding some of your questions as the manufacturers are definitely the keepers of a lot of this information.
Thanks again for writing in! :)
@@MerriamPianos Yes, I think the bass response in the piano sample is mainly due to the SK-EX sample as well as the speaker voicing :)
Thank you very much for your feedback! :)
I think you have to use your ears, not the specs, which are just a guide. How does the instrument actually sound and how musical is the instrument.
@@JoeLinux2000 Completely agree. That's why it is so important to go to the stores to see and hear by ourselves. Specs can be misleading. In addition, there is another danger: using the specs incorrectly to explain an observation. That one is pretty common.
Meze Classics a mid-range headphone 😂... those are some standards to live by for sure!
They are incredible headphones for their price point, but, given that there are some audiophile headphones in the $5000+ category, they are mid-range in the grand scheme of things.
13:28 thank you Stu for J.S. Bach music. I believe it's an Invention no.8 BWV779
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I believe you are correct. Thanks for tuning in! :)
cn201 much better in terms of touching and amplifier.
Both of these pianos offer a wonderful touch. It will definitely be a tough decision for players. It will really come down to the personal preferences of the player in terms of touch and tone. :)
Regarding the amplifier: I know 20 watts per channel is more than 12 watts per channel. So, it seems reasonable to consider it to be "better"... at least in theory. But in practice, it is a different story. Things are more complicated in audio than what they are for, let's say, an incandescent light bulb, where "more watts means more light". There is a number that it is typically not mentioned in reviews, but some manufacturers do include it, and that is: power consumption.
The CN201 power consumption is 12 watts whereas the RP701 is 20 watts. What is the meaning of this? While there may not be a strict definition, it is probably safe to assume that manufacturers mean: the power used by the instrument in peak/extreme conditions.
By the way, the Roland RP701 consumes only 1 watt from the amplifiers, according to Roland. When you turn it on, it consumes 3 watts if you play nothing. But playing at medium volume it consumes 4 watts.
I am sure you will find this number to be very small, but:
1) This is what Roland officially says
2) If you measure a digital piano REAL power consumption, you will find it is very small
If you look at the officially given by the manufacturers, you will see the Roland consumes almost twice the power. The CN201 is not pumping 40 watts of power in real life. Most likely a couple of watts from the amplifiers.
Turning the volume up is not likely to make either instrument to consume more than maybe around 7 watts total.
So, what does it mean for an amplifier to be 20 watts vs 12 watts? It basically means that, under certain conditions, you could extract that much power from them.
But those "certain conditions" are not met in practice when playing piano.
In addition to all that, there is another issue: doubling the power only increases the volume 3 decibels, which is insignificant.
Still, there is another issue: speaker sensitivity. If Roland speakers are, let's say, 3 decibels more sensitive than the Kawai speakers, then the result is that the extra power (if ever used at all) is not going to make it louder.
There is also the issue of the pre-amplifiers, the signal gain, etc.
This is not as simple as "more is better".
Heyy, I wanted to ask a question (regarding an fp 30x)
I recently got one but it had clicking issues and the replacement has lighter and more responsive keys, it sounds like a good thing but fp30s and fp10 ig are said to have heavier keys and I'm not sure if something is wrong?
It is difficult to assess and troubleshoot without actually being able to play the piano. In any case, I would recommend getting a digital piano technician to assess the piano to see if there is something problematic about the action.
@@MerriamPianos I don't think/know if I can get a musical technician. Nothing feels wrong with it, it just feels lighter somehow.
The CN201 is better than the RP701 in terms of amplifiers: 20 watts per channel is better than 12 watts per channel, so it has more bass, more oomph, and more volume. Right? Well... can we take a look at the hard evidence first? Let the numbers talk, and see if this reasonable assumption resists the tests of reality:
I conducted a number of tests with my digital piano, a pair of professional studio monitors, and a 25 cm (10") powered subwoofer that produces 100 watts. I used a power meter that shows the watts used by any electronic appliance, including amplifiers. I made sure the meter was calibrated and accurate.
1) Let's test the claim that we need a lot of watts to make bass:
- Subwoofer power consumption on Standby: 5.9 watts
- Subwoofer power consumption ON (nothing being played): 9.1 watts
- Subwoofer at half volume playing bass frequencies coming from digital piano at half volume: 10.5 watts
- Subwoofer at maximum volume playing bass frequencies coming from digital piano at half volume: 21-25 watts (excessive bass overpowering music, unrealistic)
The subwoofer was already consuming 9.1 watts with nothing being played. At half volume, it was making enough bass already and using only 10.5 watts. This means 1.4 watts to move the 25 cm (10" ) subwoofer speaker.
CONCLUSION 1: 1.4 watts were enough to make a 10" speaker move and make enough bass to supplement the digital piano playing at half volume. I also played beats and the power consumption remained the same. That includes: electric bass and drums.
The digital piano by itself (no subwoofer) consumes 5.4 watts without playing anything, and about 6.2 watts playing at maximum volume. It gets very loud.
2) Studio Monitors: 16 cm speakers + tweeters, 80 watts per channel, flat response down to 47 Hz, 160 watts total output
- 9.8 watts on Standby both speakers
- 12.5 watts both speakers at maximum volume, nothing being played
- 13.4 watts - 14.4 watts Piano at maximum volume and Studio monitors at maximum volume
I played piano hitting the lowest octaves, electric bass, beats... the power consumption remained at a maximum of 14.4 watts.
CONCLUSION 2: At its loudest, the studio monitors consumed 14.4 watts. Since they were already consuming 9.8 watts with no signal, this means the speakers needed 14.4 - 9.8 = 4.6 watts both speakers (2.3 watts per speaker) to play full range content with lots of bass.
Now, these are WAY more powerful studio monitors and subwoofer than those digital pianos with weak amplifiers and small speakers... does it still seem reasonable to believe that the CN201 consume 20 watts per channel in real tests? I hope these results, at the very least, make people think twice before making claims about amplifiers.
I have done similar tests in the past with Onkyo and Yamaha amplifiers. I will keep posting this type of content in the future.
I encourage people to watch the video titled "How loud is 1 watt?" Spoiler alert: VERY LOUD.
As always thanks for the detective work and detailed analysis. I am sure our more technically-inclined community members appreciate it!
@@MerriamPianos Thank you for the feedback! :)
All readers and Stu:
Kawai pianos are from real instruments, ROLAND is computer generated artificial sound! Yamaha and kawai are un the same league Casio too.
Everyone will have their own personal preference of course! Tone and touch preferences are very subjective. The most important thing is to find a piano experience that you connect with. :)
there is a new CN 201 and 301 coming to market from Kawai before the end of this year. so, this comparison is already obsolete....
This is the new CN201. We received our first shipment about two weeks ago. The CN301 has not yet arrived, but we are expecting them before the end of the year.
@@MerriamPianos I see well i look it up on the KAWAI website and it still said, "Coming Soon" and when i talked to one of their reps he said release date is December so,...... then can i ask you how the new VCN201 differ from the previous CN201 model?
@@Pissarrio This is the link to the video comparison you are looking for: czcams.com/video/qCKJdOogIf8/video.html
As usual, Mr. Harrison, great playing, great presentation, and a very personable host.
SALVATION:
“ Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” -- Isaiah 1:18
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; {24} Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"” -- Romans 3:23”
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
- Romans 3:10-11
“ For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” -- Romans 6:23
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. -- Acts 4:10-12
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - I John 1:5-10
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 ¶ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 ¶ He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. - John 3:1-21
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
-- John 14:6-7
GOSPEL:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; -Romans 3:23-25
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: - I Corinthians 15:1-4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto
the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
- I Thessalonians 4:13-18
CONDITION OF PEOPLE TODAY:
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. - Romans 3:12-31
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
- 2 Corinthians 6:1-2
Thank you so much for tuning in and taking the time to share such kind words! They are much appreciated. :)
These Roland acoustic piano patches always seem so artificial to me. Modelling still has a way to go.
This specific engine is SuperNatural but not modeling, it is the standard sampled-based SuperNatural (256 notes polyphony). In one video, one of Roland's former engineers, Luigi Bruti, said that Roland only sampled the acoustic pianos for 1-2 seconds. He also said Kawai sampled their pianos for 5 seconds. If that is true, then the Kawai should sound more realistic because it gets the benefit of longer samples. Roland is typically more into shaping sounds than being completely authentic. The SuperNatural engine blends the samples and adds effects, so you get all this ability to shape the sound... but they are not the best choice for realistic piano sounds. But neither one is sampling their pianos long enough: a real piano will easily sound for over a minute. That's one issue with digital pianos when compared directly with acoustic pianos: note decay time.
It is certainly a matter of preference. Every set of ears is a little different. Roland and Kawai both make excellent, well-built digital pianos but offer very different things from a tonal/musical perspective. Thankfully, we have an abundance of excellent options on the digital piano market these days to choose from. :)
@@Instrumental-Covers Going back the the D-50, Roland's approach to synthesis has been to blend a sampled attack to a synthesized decay. I posted sometime previously that if you look at a single piano note on an oscilloscope, the initial attack is jumbled mess that dances all over the place and this cacophony of waves gradually settles down to a much more pure even wave form. The thing about a piano is all the various notes interact with one another. Piano tuners refer to it as the basic inharmonicity of the instrument. I prefer digital pianos to acoustic because good digital pianos have a sound that is just as rich as an acoustic but cleaner in terms of tuning. It's understandable to me that Roland has figured out a way to make efficient use of combining a sampled attack with a synthesized decay. I'm skeptical of people who criticize the sound of Roland's top end modeled pianos like the LX-708. Of course as a Pianoteq player, I'm used to the modeled sound. Presently I'm using three voices in tandem and the sound quality is the best I've ever had. (Yamaha CFX or Warm Grand, Pianoteq Hamburg D, and Petrof Mistral) adding the Mistral gives me a better sounding upper section. All three are piped through the Yamaha DGX audio processor and also to the additional self powered secondary speaker system I have. In regards to sound quality and authenticity there are few if any instruments that could be better. Anyway I would like to learn how to sustain the Yamaha Strings with the pedal.
Here's a very good sounding Kawai:
czcams.com/video/0KHFZ3U1Eis/video.html
A lot depends on the player, and what he or she is able to get out of the instrument. You can put an amateur on a Stradivarius and it's not going to sound that great.
@@JoeLinux2000 That I know, Yamaha and Kawai have the same approach than Roland when it comes to sample-based engines: sampled attack, then synthesized decay. I tried the LX-708 and it sounded very artificial to me. It seems there is no easy way to find some truth in people's assessment, since everybody has different opinions and different experiences. I just sent you a message on how to program the sustain pedal to sustain the strings and pads indefinitely.
Za dużo gadania za mało prezentacji!.
We also have review videos that focus on individual models, which tend to feature more thorough performance demos of each model. Thanks for tuning in! :)