Good discussion topic Andy. My take is that if you’re a time crunched/low mileage/non-pro runner (less than ten hours training per week), then you get more bang for your buck doing moderate and slightly quicker paces. It’s fine as long as you don’t get injured. Pro triathletes often do around 30 hours of training per week and obviously most of that has to be at easy/recovery effort (which long bike rides lend themselves to anyway) or they’d get injured in no time. In running, the more mileage/load you add, the slower you have to become with most of it
Yes! Absolutely, you hit the nail on the head! If I could squeeze in any more runs a week they’d be easy at this stage and the distribution of the runs would be different… but they aren’t, so this is how I do it! But yes, if you’re running 100+ miles a week, there would be so much more easy running
When I analysed your training I used about 6:45 for "aerobic threshold" (sort of notional 30-45s slower than MP depending how fast the runner is) so anything faster would be in the "20" of the 80-20 and vice versa. So the "20" would be zones 3/4/5. I see this week you did two medium/long runs almost exactly at this point. I think those runs would leave you "tired" if effectively you started at low level 2 but ended up doing at least the 2nd half in zone 3 or maybe even zone 4 if you "race" the end. So yeah if you run "steady" literally then it ought to be a pace/effort you feel you could do for a long time but equally is not "jogging". So those runs in the 6:30-6:45 average pace could either be "mostly" zone 2 or "mostly" zone 3 depending how you run them. Could well be that when I did the analysis I did flip those "zone 2" runs in the "20" and so maybe it seems you run overall "harder" than most runners do. That all said that 6:30-6:45 ish pace is certainly very much upper zone 2 and 6:30 is also the average training pace of Olympian Phil Sesemann but then he is running well over 100 miles per week so relative to his MP he "has to" run relatively slow on many runs - often say in the 7:30s but those elites can bang out sub 5 pace long intervals or even down to say 4:30s for shorter track ones. Thinking back in recent years you had 2 marathons that were way way better than any others you have done. OK I recall you had a few last minute issues in some of the not so good ones. Might be interesting to see if anything was any different with those "good" build ups and how close they were to what you are intending to do?
Great point Tim... on some of my medium longs I do notice I creep into zone 3 on the uphill back home but most of it, id say 70% is zone 2 and I genuinly find I have almost zero fatigue from them... but is that because ive done it for so long that my body is used to it? Also, yes Phils training was very interesting and massive kudos on that video.... if I was to run 100+ mile weeks the rest of my mileage would be easy for sure so my ratio would drop drastically... I guess I just condense my training down and try to maximise it if I can. With regards to the first decent marathon, I was mountain marathon training and 3 weeks before my race it was cancelled due to covid... so I hopped into Shepperdine... lots of hard miles out on rolling trails, kenyan hill reps... long hilly runs etc so sadly no comparison to normal training! For newport? I probably did more steady mileage then than I am now, or at least have done so far as my fridays were steady and so far, thats not happened in this block yet!
Interesting and thought-provoking. Not the approach I'm taking at present but an observation from an old git. 1. We are all different with differing amounts of time, goals and motivations... a one fit for all is impossible....you are adapting your approach based on your circumstances and experiences...which is what we all need to do...my conclusions are different so far but I'm not you. 2. Wouldn't running be boring if we had cracked it, if there was just one way, and just kept doing the same thing? The journey is what is fun. Changing keeps it fresh and interesting. The debate itself is healthy.
This is quite possibly the best comment from someone who doesn’t run using this same method… diplomatic, but well constructed… thanks for the comment and I totally agree 👍
Most people don’t realize that Dr. Stephen Seiler uses a 3 Zone Model. Garmin uses a 5 Zone Model. Dr. Will O’Connor uses a 7 Zone model. The key is to know what Easy feels like whichever Zone system you want to use. To make things really simple, I do Easy days by feel. I let the body dictate what it wants to do during that particular day and not force anything. Each day is special. But I do allocate one hard session weekly and that I do run by pace requirements. As long as I get one hard session in, I am golden. Also Canova didn’t want his athletes to run too easy because the trade-off is crappy running mechanics. I’d rather have better running mechanics than run too slow and just rest more and sleep more. 😂 That’s the key to better recovery is not to run more but actually not run. Instead of everyday, run every other day and focus on sleep.
Great talking point and it makes total sense. Our non session days are a lot slower than our workouts as we like to run everyday and double on many days. But it does feel like a plod sometimes and overtaxing the muscoskeletal system. Your method works outstandingly well for you.
Interesting thoughts on Zone 2. I got into the 80 / 20, Zone 2 stuff about a year and a half ago. I too have mixed feelings on it. I didn't see any massive results on with it and I am still skeptical about it. I used to run quite a bit like you back in my heyday. I like how Zone 2 makes easy days easy and it forces you to focus on the harder days and make the most of them. I also feel that my zone 2, easy efforts, reduce my form as well. They almost become a shuffle and my cadence definitely drops. It is at this point if I am doing myself a disservice. As an older runner as well (I've got about 20 years on you I think), the reduced heart rate is pretty slow. It definitely makes an interesting discussion and I think at the end of the day, it is up to the runner to determine if they need more easy miles to build up a base in order to get in the tougher workouts or not. Also, I'd argue running in Zone 2 generally means less intensity, but it is still mileage and wear and tear on your body. I think it is just another tool to use while listening to your body and figuring out what works for you. Love the videos and keep it up Andy!
Interesting. I have just swapped out one of my zone 2 run/walks. For a run how I feel run. Leaving the watch and hr monitor at home. The absolute best run/walk I have done in a while. Just going on feel not over doing it was fantastic.
I’m a huge fan of your channel Andy and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your training and you don’t have to justify it to anyone if it works for you. However I think it’s misleading to call your 6:40 per mile runs “Zone 2” in a 5-zone model when you ran your last marathon at 6:40 per mile. Zone 2 should still be relatively easy compared to marathon pace or effort. But perhaps we have a different understanding of Zone 2 and 3. I would think most steady runs are low Zone 3 and the top end of your easy pace is Zone 2. You are definitely correct though that most people are running their Zone 2 or easy runs too hard. That’s why I think that we should reserve the “steady” or “moderate” label for Zone 3 so runners can be honest with themselves about their training.
Fair comment. All I’d say is discard the last marathon, the block was very messy and my HR didn’t get up anywhere near its usual marathon effort. Refer back to my 2:40 in Newport last year where it was 6:07 per mile. Honestly, my efforts in the later stages of that block was nowhere near my normal fitness and the marathon itself was poor. In shooting for sub 2:40 this time so around 2:36/2:38 where marathon pace will be more around 6:00
Like your methods Andy - if it works for you then it’s a good strategy. I do most of my zone 2 at steady keeping HR around 130 unless I have DOMS / feeling fatigue from a long bike ride / strength session. Only taken 15 years to suss it all out 😂
Very, very interesting video. I was very similar to you. Before lockdown, I would just go out and run. No pace, HR zone or training plan. After lockdown I learned about HR zones and zone 2 training. For the next couple of years, I struggled to run slow enough to stay in zone 2. My 5k RP was around 4:15min/km. I'd try a 5min/km run and go into zone 4. Then 6min/km and be in zone 4, then 7min/km and be in zone 4, then 8min/km etc. I tried all sorts of zone calculations but nothing helped. I then got a serious hip injury and was out for 6 months. 6 weeks ago I started running again. I reset my maximum HR and zones to the Garmin defaults and went out and walked. If I fall into zone 1 I jog, if I hit zone 3 I slow down, walking if I need to. For the past 3 weeks, I have walked at least 10k every other day. It has been a huge revelation and has totally transformed my health, fitness and training. I can do a lot more volume without getting injured. I've lost weight. My heart rate is down at the same pace. I'm not tired or fatigued. I sleep better. I really look forward to my sessions. And I know I'm only 3 weeks in. I can't wait to see where I'll be in 12-16 weeks! Our maximum heart rates are the same but my zones are much lower than yours. Your zone 2 = 138-150. Garmin calculates my zone 2 as 113-132. Maybe you could do a video on how you calculated your zones. Garmin suggest my base fitness runs at 141bpm which is in zone 3 for me, or one 2 for you.
Amazing, so glad to hear you overcame that and are now seeing great improvements! Theres definitely a video in there for that topic.... I will have a think how I can work that one in
I agree with everything you say...I train on the same model as you..imo two many variables effect this topic age is one...steady runs as we age will benefit you more than easy runs due to muscle mass etc..and if you can run back to back harder days so be it embrace it your body will tell you when you ready to run easy..plus we run coz we enjoy it so run how we want to run sod strava police half of them are just jealous they can't do it😊...keep up the good work dude👍
Agree you should go by feel with z2. I think it was tom Tinman Schwartz that said depending on fiber mix you should do your easy accordingly. Theory goes :Large amount of slow twitch type 1 can get away with lots of steady just under threshold 1 but people with more type 2 fibers should run far easier than just under threshold 1 because they get fatigued far more easily as they are leaning on the type 2 fibers far more. You seem to have a lot of slow fibers so this has worked well for you. Others may need to run slower to hit their sessions correctly next day. Also same applies to z3. Far more can be done by slow twitchers and people with more type 2 can get away with more vo2 max work..
I struggled with the zone training due to two issues: 1: I used my watches calculated zones 2: My watch had never recorded my max heart rate. I created a running ramp test like an FTP test on a bike to sort that out. If youve never run to the point of failure then your zones are probably going to be wrong on your watch. (My experience of zone 2 fatigue is from time on legs, nothing to do with the zone, When I was doing the garmin half marathon training, the actual race was less fatigueing than the long zone 2 runs, because the long zone 2 runs were an extra hour of running, hence fatigue from time on legs when not used to running long distances, it massively helped with endurance, the equivalent would be running 55k for your long run in marathon training)
Such a common issue, and a great point to highlight! Good to hear how you got round it. Our bodies naturally protect us, so running to the point of failure is really tough for so many of us, including me, so we never get that true reading. I’d seen my HR up to 183/184 before a few times but I’ve found over the years I get the most out of myself on hill workouts and can push the hardest, hence why I managed my reading from there. I can also understand the legs issue, it’s one thing being aerobically conditioned, it’s another getting those muscles conditioned as well!
Very articulate riposte Andy! Everyone is trying to fit in some meaningful training around life and it's limitations, our goals and limitations are unique to us all. For the record, I've put a bit more zone two in over the summer and it definitely helped me get my veteran sub 20 5km goal! Interesting takes on easy miles. I heard Tom Evans say just yesterday, he's been doing more easy running with his wife, Sophie, on his alpine camp and he didn't really mind it was 'slower' than his usual easy pace, as he put it, if 4.30 a Km is easy, then 5.30 a Km is still easy pace 😅. He added though 5.30 is faster than the average UTMB pace so it's all relative. I know the famous Iten Coach Br. Colm, prescribed a session of an hour easy but focusing on perfect relaxed form around a football field. So easy doesn't have to = sloppy.
Awesome, well done on the sub 20! Yeah so many different takes on it… and with Tom Evans, that’s kind of what I mean by getting the same benefits running at the top end and bottom end of the zones… same benefit but less fatigue. I have however tried running super relaxed with good form but it’s so hard, my form is bad enough as it is 😂
Good video Andy and whilst i do agree with tye vast majority of it, its important to differentiate between speed and heart rate. The latter being the only relevent meyric in zone running. Its absolutely normal yo feel fatigued grom back to back days of zone 2 if you're higher up the fitness scale. Well seasoned athletes can still run exceptionally fast in zone 2 so from a muscular perspective you xan still be running pretty hard, its just you're heart rate is efficient. Admittedly this isn the cast for most of us but disconnecting speed from actual heart rate stats is vital for proper HR zone training
Great point 👊 I agree with what you’re saying when you’ve done both your days of zone 2… my point I was making was that after day 1, you shouldn’t really feel fatigued going into your second run if you paced it right… After my Saturday long run during my last block I would indeed feel fatigued, but that was after I completed it and not before… the run the day before had very little impact and again, something I didn’t really touch on, but if you fuel well and eat substantially, that massively limits the fatigue. Under eating can play a huge part in this and probably something for another topic to discuss
Thanks for this video, including the quote of my Strava question! I really appreciate you taking the time to dive into this! I feel similar on this, by the way, but I also experience that 1, just 1, really easy long run every other week or so adds to my fitness. I also think I should get a proper test to determine my LT1 and LT2. Have you ever considered such a thing? It would make a nice video 😉
Stay in Zone 2 is to minimize your risk of injury, however mentally I don’t feel happy with slow run zone 2 and rather prefer to stay around hr 144-150 (my max hr is 190), with easy/steady run for me. And by doing enough cool down, stretching, good nutrition, I think it’s ok for me. Just wanna have the most fun in running.
I use a product called Morpheus which takes a daily HRV reading and recovery and sets the zone 2 Hr bands every day for me ..2 states the lower z2 and hgher z2 for the day ..takes the guesswork out ..might help some people...
When you are results are working and they are I can’t understand somebody to take the time to complain about the way you train but I’ve seen it with me too so a few other people have met it probably 80% or more of your training if it’s slow for the average person or probably the majority, it’s just training you to be slowbut what you’re doing is working you don’t get injured a lot you’ve had a few, but nothing major and you have a great results I say graduation
I've been thinking about this recently, I'm planning to drop my weekly road threshold run as it fatigues me and my legs too much for the next 2 runs and I have to run a shorter slower run than I want to the day before aswell, yet I can run for 4 hours in the mountains and be good to go again the next day, I raced last weekend and I've another in 4 weeks so will experiment with it and see what happens, last weeks race was rubbish anyway so nothing to lose really
Sounds like it’s worth a go 🤝 I think the key in all of this is that a good all round plan is needed to work on all the areas.. but lots of running in these lower two zones really contribute to being able to run in those higher zones more, as your “engine gets bigger” so the speak. Sounds like you’ve got a lot of experience though if you’re out in the mountains for 4 hours, so I should think you already have a pretty good aerobic engine!
Thanks Thomas… I find it really hard to explain sometimes… it took me a few takes to record it but I hope it adds some clarity as to why I do what I do!
My Max is very close to yours and I train 40-45mpw. I used to run LT1/Zone 2 at around 150 and also felt ‘breathing difference’ at 150-153 however recently I got endurance testing done and my LT1 is 130! If yours is near to the same as mine your LT1 will be poor in relation to the rest and could be why your marathon doesn’t match up with your 10K time for example. I’ve gone from 130bpm being a shuffle, to feeling like a normal run mechanically in only a few weeks. It was explained to me that 150 felt easy because I’ve gotten so efficient at that effort so my breathing felt easy, however oxygen getting delivered to my legs and mitochondria development would have been at a guess 40% efficient.
Really interesting to hear, thanks for sharing! I’ve been liasing with Jonathan down at Bath uni to organise a proper test… we agreed after the summer would be best so I will get one done officially 🙏 Also, I think a lot of my marathon issue comes down to fuelling… but I could well be wrong!
@@TheFODRunner Will be very interesting to see how you get on. I went into mine expecting LT1 to be solid & VO2 poor and it was complete opposite! Basically my top end is carrying the bottom (ran 2:42 Mara, 1:14 half).
Huge fan Andy only question I have is how long did it take for you HR to come down? Ive done some Z2 training and find im running between 8:50-10:30 min miles depending on how im feeling and if I keep my breathing in check. But I see athletes like yourself Z2 running and your pace is almost my park run pace 🤣
Thanks! I think the best thing to say is it takes time… I do 3 or 4 training blocks a year and I’ve been running for 10 years now so over time it’s naturally come down to this point. Keep chipping away 👊
Thanks for the great video like always Andy, just curious on Max HR vs LT zoning? I started going by max HR and lowest HR calculator and it really made me fall in love with running again changing most of my weekly mileage (even though it's not much atm), after running too hard most days and getting eventually injured. But then read most people saying you should go for LT zoning as it's more accurate and changes with your fitness but I'm worried that the zones being higher is taking me out of that all important zone two zone and potentially stopping my progress to increase volume over time. What I used to run (which was very difficult for me to do and kinda still is mechanically) is 136-150 based on max hr and resting hr vs LT which is 158 -166 which doesn't feel like too much I'm just worried it may be too much for all my easy runs?
Great question... and for LT zoning, in an ideal world you'd get a lab test and then use a lactate meter to keep on top of your efforts... so HR is far less hassle...but if im being honest I would rather work using my LT zones over HR! But for ease of use, HR is much simpler and I guess at our level, the benefits and cost of switching to LT training properly are marginal.... but that doesnt stop me wanting to do it haha!
@@TheFODRunner I really appreciate the sentiment but I'm nowhere near your level mate 👍 luckily I know someone from a university with a new performance Lab and she is organising a LT test for me sometime soon so that will help tremendously. I'm switching to one of the 80/20 endurance plans next to try and avoid injuries more, also speaking to David Roche, he's such a legend and great guy. Thanks for getting back to me mate, I really appreciate you taking the time. 👍💯
I don’t get the whole zone thing really Because for you a zone 2 is steady but for me that’s easy pace/ recovery pace Zone 3 is steady place for me Zone 4 tempo to freshould And zone 5 is anaerobic I literally can’t run in zone 1 as for me zone 1 is a brisk walking pace I’m no where near as fit as you but I’m about 17:30 5k so far from been unfit
I often run on the treadmill and I can't maintain an average heart rate of above 111 bpm the transition to my zone 2. I wonder if I am wasting my time doing zone 1? Garmin says my V02max is 52 and my resting heart rate weekly average is currently 39 bpm. I am quite a wobbly runner so running faster than 7:56 min/mile is quite difficult on the treadmill.
Interesting! I also can’t run too fast on my treadmill for the same reason…. Maybe some runs off the treadmill might help? I know we are all doing this for fun, but I’m definitely going to get a lab test done to get my zones done properly and it might be worth considering if anywhere local to you offers it!!
@@TheFODRunner I do the treadmill runs as recovery since I don't get any recovery time specified by Garmin. The other days I do outdoor runs to maintain my training load. I think I am a bit one-legged and need to find some exercise to strengthen and or balance out my weaker leg. Single leg exercises I think.
Not sure about the 5x2K. Wouldn't it be better simply to do a 6 mile run in 36 minutes? You are running 2K at only marginally faster than goal marathon pace - and then having a rest! Surely a moderate SUSTAINED run woudl be better? Likewise the evening session - why not another sustained run and save the interval type workouts for stuff that is significantly faster than race pace, 5-10K pace for example. Zone 2 (not that I really understand about these zones) seems to me a bit neither fish nor fowl. I would have thought that after the Olympic 1500 final "double thresholds" would have lost some of their popularity! Not sure if any of the three guys that beat Jacob do this form of training!
Longer sustained efforts are coming... and I agree theres a place for intervals with breaks and a place for longer straight through efforts... I tend to put those in closer to the race. Haha thats a good point, I think in the moment he let the pressure of the media get on top of him and didnt run his own race, as proven by last nights diamond league.
@@TheFODRunner I think that Jacob got it into his head that the only way he cpould win the 1500 was to run as fast as possible. He actually turned the race into a tyupical Diamond League race - with himself as pacemaker. A very fast first 800 then a slight lull before the last 400 - Jacob's 200 from 800 to 1000 was his slowest. He would have been better off running the first 500 a couple of seconds slower, the next 500 faster than the first and then you are entering the last 500 accelerating instead of slowing. I also think Kerr and Hocker managed to convince Jacob that they had better kicks than him. not totally sure of this!
@@markbateman9222 totally agree… you could see from the semi final when he went straight to the front past Kerr and didn’t let him back past that it was in his head… such a shame really but then we all love a good curveball in an Olympic final. Coles kick that day was out of this world and he capitalised on what was a sensational race overall!
I don’t have any to hand, but there are plenty out there where you search for them. Also I remember Stephen scullion sharing a paper in the link of one of his videos…. That was a very interesting read and it mentioned that the optimal load for an athlete training with a big load to be 3 x 60 minute steady runs a week
Some people call zone 1 recovery and zone 2 easy… some people don’t even try to run in zone 1 and just start in zone 2… there are so many ways of interpretting the zones and people have different labels for them. For me, zone 1 is easy and zone 2 is steady/moderate. Zone 3 is then above your aerobic threshold and you’re getting into the territory of marathon pace
@TheFODRunner Yes, I'd agree with that. I'd call Zone 1 'easy/recovery', and only use those sparingly, the day after a hard Zone 4-5 workout (hill reps or short intervals). Then Zone 2 is more like 'steady', and as you get fitter this starts to feel quite fast.. I think that's what Tim G suggested was about 45s slower than marathon pace, which for me is spot on. Now some days even Zone 1 can feel like a decent effort. So I think if someone can only manage a brisk walk at Zone 1, then it probably means a longer base building' phase is needed in order to get properly aerobically fit. For me this came about by following the so-called 'MAF method', and always doing training runs on an empty stomach. Anyway - really enjoyed the video - keep up the good work!! 👏 👏👏
I use my max and plumbed it into various HR zone calculators, including my garmin connect app and taken a rough average of them all… with a max around 187/188 I have found over the years that it’s best I keep my easy runs sub 135bpm and moderates sub 148/149 bpm. Note though, I don’t run to HR, I check my watch here and there during a run to see if I’m roughly in the right area but I’ll just check the data when im home, I like to try and run by feel most of the time
I think to be accurate with HR zones, you need LAB testing. I don’t think random calculators give accurate readings. I think simplifying running works way better than got hang up on zones or complex workouts.
@@ronalddavies5315 yes, I mentioned in other comments I’ve been speaking to a local university about going to get my threshold zones tested and a vo2max test… it’ll happen after the summer holidays
Sorry but I don’t think you can get accurate Max HR via random calculators - you need to get LAB tested. Running should be simple - a good balance between hard/easy. Zone talk is just complicating what has been going on for donkeys years. I refer you to the famous kiwi coach Arthur Lydiard.
Yes I think I replied to your other comment but a proper lab test has already been discussed via email and being sorted after summer and maybe after the marathon block. But definitely this year. He was indeed a very famous coach, and a very clever one… but I’m more of a fan of a modern approach from some newer coaches.
@@TheFODRunnerit's interesting when people talk about lab testing being some gold standard. Running on the treadmill is not the same as running on the road in terms of surface or technique or equipment, neither is running indoors to running outdoors because of conditions. The results from that kind of test irrelevant to outdoor road/trail training and racing.
And your I presume in your 30’s, as time goes by and reach your 50’s recovery and easy runs are needed more as we don’t recover as well… oh to be in my 30’s again LOL. Whatever the naysayers say if it works for you at your current fitness levels without reaching fatigue state then that’s great. I think the confusion comes when you call moderate /steady in zone 2 where many would call that high zone 2 pushing into zone 3/4. When look at some of these calculators they call the zones different terms…. Agree with all you say though budd 🎉 ignore the zone 2 preachers, some are as bad as those in keto diet cults or vegan hardcorians 😂 and most don’t really understand the science behind it anyway and to add those getting fatigued in the claimed zone 2 are probably not fueling correctly with a poor fueling diet… eat to fuel not eat for pleasure 🎉
Thanks buddy 👊 yeah massive confusion in terms of terminology… people label things different and that can often be part of the issue! I agree with the eating to fuel statement 🙌
@@TheFODRunner so so much more to zone 2 though, it’s very interesting learning about how the human body fuels our excersions at various stages, burnings fats to carbs and the stages in between. Infuriates me when people go on about running un fuelled or in a fasted state, i get it CAN train our bodies to be more efficient at burning fats for fuel but that takes a long time. Our bodies are not machines, takes a car, which is a machine, you don’t fuel it and it stops, put fuel in again and goes with no ill effects. Our body is a far far more complex bio organism and is not the case if don’t fuel you will stop, more likely you will actually break and then need a long term fix. As athletes we need to learn just as much about correct nutrition for fuelling as we do about shoes or zones. Coach Karl over and out 👁️👁️. Always love a good FOD video after my Sunday long runs. Sat in garden with my post run fuelling overnight oats mix, a protein smoothies and a jar of crunchy peanut butter. Birds singing oh what bliss ( and I also fuelled pre sun as well 👌 )
Good discussion topic Andy. My take is that if you’re a time crunched/low mileage/non-pro runner (less than ten hours training per week), then you get more bang for your buck doing moderate and slightly quicker paces. It’s fine as long as you don’t get injured. Pro triathletes often do around 30 hours of training per week and obviously most of that has to be at easy/recovery effort (which long bike rides lend themselves to anyway) or they’d get injured in no time. In running, the more mileage/load you add, the slower you have to become with most of it
Yes! Absolutely, you hit the nail on the head! If I could squeeze in any more runs a week they’d be easy at this stage and the distribution of the runs would be different… but they aren’t, so this is how I do it!
But yes, if you’re running 100+ miles a week, there would be so much more easy running
Great analogy
When I analysed your training I used about 6:45 for "aerobic threshold" (sort of notional 30-45s slower than MP depending how fast the runner is) so anything faster would be in the "20" of the 80-20 and vice versa. So the "20" would be zones 3/4/5. I see this week you did two medium/long runs almost exactly at this point. I think those runs would leave you "tired" if effectively you started at low level 2 but ended up doing at least the 2nd half in zone 3 or maybe even zone 4 if you "race" the end. So yeah if you run "steady" literally then it ought to be a pace/effort you feel you could do for a long time but equally is not "jogging". So those runs in the 6:30-6:45 average pace could either be "mostly" zone 2 or "mostly" zone 3 depending how you run them. Could well be that when I did the analysis I did flip those "zone 2" runs in the "20" and so maybe it seems you run overall "harder" than most runners do. That all said that 6:30-6:45 ish pace is certainly very much upper zone 2 and 6:30 is also the average training pace of Olympian Phil Sesemann but then he is running well over 100 miles per week so relative to his MP he "has to" run relatively slow on many runs - often say in the 7:30s but those elites can bang out sub 5 pace long intervals or even down to say 4:30s for shorter track ones. Thinking back in recent years you had 2 marathons that were way way better than any others you have done. OK I recall you had a few last minute issues in some of the not so good ones. Might be interesting to see if anything was any different with those "good" build ups and how close they were to what you are intending to do?
Great point Tim... on some of my medium longs I do notice I creep into zone 3 on the uphill back home but most of it, id say 70% is zone 2 and I genuinly find I have almost zero fatigue from them... but is that because ive done it for so long that my body is used to it? Also, yes Phils training was very interesting and massive kudos on that video.... if I was to run 100+ mile weeks the rest of my mileage would be easy for sure so my ratio would drop drastically... I guess I just condense my training down and try to maximise it if I can. With regards to the first decent marathon, I was mountain marathon training and 3 weeks before my race it was cancelled due to covid... so I hopped into Shepperdine... lots of hard miles out on rolling trails, kenyan hill reps... long hilly runs etc so sadly no comparison to normal training! For newport? I probably did more steady mileage then than I am now, or at least have done so far as my fridays were steady and so far, thats not happened in this block yet!
Interesting and thought-provoking. Not the approach I'm taking at present but an observation from an old git. 1. We are all different with differing amounts of time, goals and motivations... a one fit for all is impossible....you are adapting your approach based on your circumstances and experiences...which is what we all need to do...my conclusions are different so far but I'm not you. 2. Wouldn't running be boring if we had cracked it, if there was just one way, and just kept doing the same thing? The journey is what is fun. Changing keeps it fresh and interesting. The debate itself is healthy.
This is quite possibly the best comment from someone who doesn’t run using this same method… diplomatic, but well constructed… thanks for the comment and I totally agree 👍
Most people don’t realize that Dr. Stephen Seiler uses a 3 Zone Model. Garmin uses a 5 Zone Model. Dr. Will O’Connor uses a 7 Zone model. The key is to know what Easy feels like whichever Zone system you want to use. To make things really simple, I do Easy days by feel. I let the body dictate what it wants to do during that particular day and not force anything. Each day is special. But I do allocate one hard session weekly and that I do run by pace requirements. As long as I get one hard session in, I am golden. Also Canova didn’t want his athletes to run too easy because the trade-off is crappy running mechanics. I’d rather have better running mechanics than run too slow and just rest more and sleep more. 😂 That’s the key to better recovery is not to run more but actually not run. Instead of everyday, run every other day and focus on sleep.
I’d also rather have better running mechanics, we are on the same page there! Thanks for the detailed comment 🙌
Great talking point and it makes total sense. Our non session days are a lot slower than our workouts as we like to run everyday and double on many days. But it does feel like a plod sometimes and overtaxing the muscoskeletal system. Your method works outstandingly well for you.
Thanks guys! See you tomorrow!
I think you are proof that this type of training works, so good for you, it is great to see your progress! Keep up the good work! 👍
Thank you 🙏
Interesting thoughts on Zone 2. I got into the 80 / 20, Zone 2 stuff about a year and a half ago. I too have mixed feelings on it. I didn't see any massive results on with it and I am still skeptical about it. I used to run quite a bit like you back in my heyday. I like how Zone 2 makes easy days easy and it forces you to focus on the harder days and make the most of them. I also feel that my zone 2, easy efforts, reduce my form as well. They almost become a shuffle and my cadence definitely drops. It is at this point if I am doing myself a disservice. As an older runner as well (I've got about 20 years on you I think), the reduced heart rate is pretty slow. It definitely makes an interesting discussion and I think at the end of the day, it is up to the runner to determine if they need more easy miles to build up a base in order to get in the tougher workouts or not. Also, I'd argue running in Zone 2 generally means less intensity, but it is still mileage and wear and tear on your body. I think it is just another tool to use while listening to your body and figuring out what works for you. Love the videos and keep it up Andy!
Absolutely, great talking point there buddy!
I have created very similar HR ranges myself:
Easy-
Interesting. I have just swapped out one of my zone 2 run/walks. For a run how I feel run. Leaving the watch and hr monitor at home. The absolute best run/walk I have done in a while. Just going on feel not over doing it was fantastic.
Great news!
I’m a huge fan of your channel Andy and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your training and you don’t have to justify it to anyone if it works for you. However I think it’s misleading to call your 6:40 per mile runs “Zone 2” in a 5-zone model when you ran your last marathon at 6:40 per mile. Zone 2 should still be relatively easy compared to marathon pace or effort. But perhaps we have a different understanding of Zone 2 and 3. I would think most steady runs are low Zone 3 and the top end of your easy pace is Zone 2. You are definitely correct though that most people are running their Zone 2 or easy runs too hard. That’s why I think that we should reserve the “steady” or “moderate” label for Zone 3 so runners can be honest with themselves about their training.
Fair comment. All I’d say is discard the last marathon, the block was very messy and my HR didn’t get up anywhere near its usual marathon effort. Refer back to my 2:40 in Newport last year where it was 6:07 per mile.
Honestly, my efforts in the later stages of that block was nowhere near my normal fitness and the marathon itself was poor.
In shooting for sub 2:40 this time so around 2:36/2:38 where marathon pace will be more around 6:00
Like your methods Andy - if it works for you then it’s a good strategy. I do most of my zone 2 at steady keeping HR around 130 unless I have DOMS / feeling fatigue from a long bike ride / strength session. Only taken 15 years to suss it all out 😂
Awesome! Yeah nothing beats a long stint of trial and error eh! haha
Very, very interesting video.
I was very similar to you. Before lockdown, I would just go out and run. No pace, HR zone or training plan.
After lockdown I learned about HR zones and zone 2 training. For the next couple of years, I struggled to run slow enough to stay in zone 2. My 5k RP was around 4:15min/km. I'd try a 5min/km run and go into zone 4. Then 6min/km and be in zone 4, then 7min/km and be in zone 4, then 8min/km etc. I tried all sorts of zone calculations but nothing helped. I then got a serious hip injury and was out for 6 months.
6 weeks ago I started running again. I reset my maximum HR and zones to the Garmin defaults and went out and walked. If I fall into zone 1 I jog, if I hit zone 3 I slow down, walking if I need to. For the past 3 weeks, I have walked at least 10k every other day. It has been a huge revelation and has totally transformed my health, fitness and training. I can do a lot more volume without getting injured. I've lost weight. My heart rate is down at the same pace. I'm not tired or fatigued. I sleep better. I really look forward to my sessions. And I know I'm only 3 weeks in. I can't wait to see where I'll be in 12-16 weeks!
Our maximum heart rates are the same but my zones are much lower than yours. Your zone 2 = 138-150. Garmin calculates my zone 2 as 113-132. Maybe you could do a video on how you calculated your zones. Garmin suggest my base fitness runs at 141bpm which is in zone 3 for me, or one 2 for you.
Amazing, so glad to hear you overcame that and are now seeing great improvements! Theres definitely a video in there for that topic.... I will have a think how I can work that one in
Good morning. Solid week, Andy. !!! I prefer the 3 Zone model. A nice weekend for everyone.
Have a great weekend!
I agree with everything you say...I train on the same model as you..imo two many variables effect this topic age is one...steady runs as we age will benefit you more than easy runs due to muscle mass etc..and if you can run back to back harder days so be it embrace it your body will tell you when you ready to run easy..plus we run coz we enjoy it so run how we want to run sod strava police half of them are just jealous they can't do it😊...keep up the good work dude👍
Nice! Thanks buddy, I enjoy seeing your runs on strava too 👊
I just do whatever paces feel right based on your training plan. It works for me. I AM THE EVIDENCE. All the best x
“I am the evidence” - Rob Barnett 2024 ❤️
@@TheFODRunner Disclaimer - Andrew Raynor has not paid me for this comment and the thoughts and opinion are my own.
@@robbarnett524 😂
Great video Andy , well explained. Best of luck with the rest of your training . 👍🏻
Cheers buddy 👏
Agree you should go by feel with z2. I think it was tom Tinman Schwartz that said depending on fiber mix you should do your easy accordingly.
Theory goes :Large amount of slow twitch type 1 can get away with lots of steady just under threshold 1 but people with more type 2 fibers should run far easier than just under threshold 1 because they get fatigued far more easily as they are leaning on the type 2 fibers far more. You seem to have a lot of slow fibers so this has worked well for you. Others may need to run slower to hit their sessions correctly next day. Also same applies to z3. Far more can be done by slow twitchers and people with more type 2 can get away with more vo2 max work..
I follow a lot of what Tom does but I had never read this, that’s very interesting!
I struggled with the zone training due to two issues:
1: I used my watches calculated zones
2: My watch had never recorded my max heart rate.
I created a running ramp test like an FTP test on a bike to sort that out. If youve never run to the point of failure then your zones are probably going to be wrong on your watch.
(My experience of zone 2 fatigue is from time on legs, nothing to do with the zone,
When I was doing the garmin half marathon training, the actual race was less fatigueing than the long zone 2 runs, because the long zone 2 runs were an extra hour of running, hence fatigue from time on legs when not used to running long distances, it massively helped with endurance, the equivalent would be running 55k for your long run in marathon training)
Such a common issue, and a great point to highlight! Good to hear how you got round it. Our bodies naturally protect us, so running to the point of failure is really tough for so many of us, including me, so we never get that true reading.
I’d seen my HR up to 183/184 before a few times but I’ve found over the years I get the most out of myself on hill workouts and can push the hardest, hence why I managed my reading from there.
I can also understand the legs issue, it’s one thing being aerobically conditioned, it’s another getting those muscles conditioned as well!
Very articulate riposte Andy! Everyone is trying to fit in some meaningful training around life and it's limitations, our goals and limitations are unique to us all. For the record, I've put a bit more zone two in over the summer and it definitely helped me get my veteran sub 20 5km goal!
Interesting takes on easy miles. I heard Tom Evans say just yesterday, he's been doing more easy running with his wife, Sophie, on his alpine camp and he didn't really mind it was 'slower' than his usual easy pace, as he put it, if 4.30 a Km is easy, then 5.30 a Km is still easy pace 😅. He added though 5.30 is faster than the average UTMB pace so it's all relative. I know the famous Iten Coach Br. Colm, prescribed a session of an hour easy but focusing on perfect relaxed form around a football field. So easy doesn't have to = sloppy.
Awesome, well done on the sub 20! Yeah so many different takes on it… and with Tom Evans, that’s kind of what I mean by getting the same benefits running at the top end and bottom end of the zones… same benefit but less fatigue. I have however tried running super relaxed with good form but it’s so hard, my form is bad enough as it is 😂
@@TheFODRunner yes, Kenyan advice should always come with the caveat, the Kenyans are fairly handy in the first place 😂.
@@aidanoc19 absolutely 😂😂
Good video Andy and whilst i do agree with tye vast majority of it, its important to differentiate between speed and heart rate. The latter being the only relevent meyric in zone running. Its absolutely normal yo feel fatigued grom back to back days of zone 2 if you're higher up the fitness scale. Well seasoned athletes can still run exceptionally fast in zone 2 so from a muscular perspective you xan still be running pretty hard, its just you're heart rate is efficient. Admittedly this isn the cast for most of us but disconnecting speed from actual heart rate stats is vital for proper HR zone training
Great point 👊 I agree with what you’re saying when you’ve done both your days of zone 2… my point I was making was that after day 1, you shouldn’t really feel fatigued going into your second run if you paced it right…
After my Saturday long run during my last block I would indeed feel fatigued, but that was after I completed it and not before… the run the day before had very little impact and again, something I didn’t really touch on, but if you fuel well and eat substantially, that massively limits the fatigue. Under eating can play a huge part in this and probably something for another topic to discuss
Thanks for this video, including the quote of my Strava question! I really appreciate you taking the time to dive into this! I feel similar on this, by the way, but I also experience that 1, just 1, really easy long run every other week or so adds to my fitness. I also think I should get a proper test to determine my LT1 and LT2. Have you ever considered such a thing? It would make a nice video 😉
Yes! I’ve been talking to a university close to me about getting my lactate zones tested and a vo2 test… it’ll be done after summer!
Stay in Zone 2 is to minimize your risk of injury, however mentally I don’t feel happy with slow run zone 2 and rather prefer to stay around hr 144-150 (my max hr is 190), with easy/steady run for me.
And by doing enough cool down, stretching, good nutrition, I think it’s ok for me.
Just wanna have the most fun in running.
That’s about where my zone 2 runs are and I reckon my max is around 186…. So we are very similar!
I use a product called Morpheus which takes a daily HRV reading and recovery and sets the zone 2 Hr bands every day for me ..2 states the lower z2 and hgher z2 for the day ..takes the guesswork out ..might help some people...
Nice!
When you are results are working and they are I can’t understand somebody to take the time to complain about the way you train but I’ve seen it with me too so a few other people have met it probably 80% or more of your training if it’s slow for the average person or probably the majority, it’s just training you to be slowbut what you’re doing is working you don’t get injured a lot you’ve had a few, but nothing major and you have a great results I say graduation
Thanks mate 👊
I've been thinking about this recently, I'm planning to drop my weekly road threshold run as it fatigues me and my legs too much for the next 2 runs and I have to run a shorter slower run than I want to the day before aswell, yet I can run for 4 hours in the mountains and be good to go again the next day, I raced last weekend and I've another in 4 weeks so will experiment with it and see what happens, last weeks race was rubbish anyway so nothing to lose really
Sounds like it’s worth a go 🤝 I think the key in all of this is that a good all round plan is needed to work on all the areas.. but lots of running in these lower two zones really contribute to being able to run in those higher zones more, as your “engine gets bigger” so the speak. Sounds like you’ve got a lot of experience though if you’re out in the mountains for 4 hours, so I should think you already have a pretty good aerobic engine!
that was a great explanation about the how and why you run like you run
Thanks Thomas… I find it really hard to explain sometimes… it took me a few takes to record it but I hope it adds some clarity as to why I do what I do!
@@TheFODRunner it really explains it in well spoken words
That was really informative. Thanks!
Thank you 🙏
You are so fecking right!!
👊
My Max is very close to yours and I train 40-45mpw.
I used to run LT1/Zone 2 at around 150 and also felt ‘breathing difference’ at 150-153 however recently I got endurance testing done and my LT1 is 130!
If yours is near to the same as mine your LT1 will be poor in relation to the rest and could be why your marathon doesn’t match up with your 10K time for example. I’ve gone from 130bpm being a shuffle, to feeling like a normal run mechanically in only a few weeks.
It was explained to me that 150 felt easy because I’ve gotten so efficient at that effort so my breathing felt easy, however oxygen getting delivered to my legs and mitochondria development would have been at a guess 40% efficient.
Really interesting to hear, thanks for sharing!
I’ve been liasing with Jonathan down at Bath uni to organise a proper test… we agreed after the summer would be best so I will get one done officially 🙏
Also, I think a lot of my marathon issue comes down to fuelling… but I could well be wrong!
@@TheFODRunner Will be very interesting to see how you get on.
I went into mine expecting LT1 to be solid & VO2 poor and it was complete opposite! Basically my top end is carrying the bottom (ran 2:42 Mara, 1:14 half).
I'll do the 300th like 😊👍
👊
Huge fan Andy only question I have is how long did it take for you HR to come down? Ive done some Z2 training and find im running between 8:50-10:30 min miles depending on how im feeling and if I keep my breathing in check. But I see athletes like yourself Z2 running and your pace is almost my park run pace 🤣
Thanks! I think the best thing to say is it takes time… I do 3 or 4 training blocks a year and I’ve been running for 10 years now so over time it’s naturally come down to this point. Keep chipping away 👊
Thanks for the great video like always Andy, just curious on Max HR vs LT zoning? I started going by max HR and lowest HR calculator and it really made me fall in love with running again changing most of my weekly mileage (even though it's not much atm), after running too hard most days and getting eventually injured.
But then read most people saying you should go for LT zoning as it's more accurate and changes with your fitness but I'm worried that the zones being higher is taking me out of that all important zone two zone and potentially stopping my progress to increase volume over time. What I used to run (which was very difficult for me to do and kinda still is mechanically) is 136-150 based on max hr and resting hr vs LT which is 158 -166 which doesn't feel like too much I'm just worried it may be too much for all my easy runs?
Great question... and for LT zoning, in an ideal world you'd get a lab test and then use a lactate meter to keep on top of your efforts... so HR is far less hassle...but if im being honest I would rather work using my LT zones over HR! But for ease of use, HR is much simpler and I guess at our level, the benefits and cost of switching to LT training properly are marginal.... but that doesnt stop me wanting to do it haha!
@@TheFODRunner I really appreciate the sentiment but I'm nowhere near your level mate 👍 luckily I know someone from a university with a new performance Lab and she is organising a LT test for me sometime soon so that will help tremendously. I'm switching to one of the 80/20 endurance plans next to try and avoid injuries more, also speaking to David Roche, he's such a legend and great guy. Thanks for getting back to me mate, I really appreciate you taking the time. 👍💯
@@bentaylor3730 David seems like a great guy, I’ve enjoyed his input into Allies training and seeing him on video!
Easy run is to keep up the milage and not get injured.
I don’t get the whole zone thing really
Because for you a zone 2 is steady but for me that’s easy pace/ recovery pace
Zone 3 is steady place for me
Zone 4 tempo to freshould
And zone 5 is anaerobic
I literally can’t run in zone 1 as for me zone 1 is a brisk walking pace
I’m no where near as fit as you but I’m about 17:30 5k so far from been unfit
Yeah the zonal models can be confusing... I tried to simplify it by doing the 5 zone model but often people will classify things differently!
KM splits too please! Miles means nothing to slot of people
Apologies! The rep times were in metric ie 2k rep time and 800m rep time so I didn’t think to convert them!
Missing a link to SaySky in description?
Thanks for highlighting this! Put that in now 👊
In the 2k was sunshine and late was raining?
Yes!
I often run on the treadmill and I can't maintain an average heart rate of above 111 bpm the transition to my zone 2. I wonder if I am wasting my time doing zone 1? Garmin says my V02max is 52 and my resting heart rate weekly average is currently 39 bpm. I am quite a wobbly runner so running faster than 7:56 min/mile is quite difficult on the treadmill.
Interesting! I also can’t run too fast on my treadmill for the same reason…. Maybe some runs off the treadmill might help?
I know we are all doing this for fun, but I’m definitely going to get a lab test done to get my zones done properly and it might be worth considering if anywhere local to you offers it!!
@@TheFODRunner I do the treadmill runs as recovery since I don't get any recovery time specified by Garmin. The other days I do outdoor runs to maintain my training load. I think I am a bit one-legged and need to find some exercise to strengthen and or balance out my weaker leg. Single leg exercises I think.
Not sure about the 5x2K. Wouldn't it be better simply to do a 6 mile run in 36 minutes? You are running 2K at only marginally faster than goal marathon pace - and then having a rest! Surely a moderate SUSTAINED run woudl be better? Likewise the evening session - why not another sustained run and save the interval type workouts for stuff that is significantly faster than race pace, 5-10K pace for example.
Zone 2 (not that I really understand about these zones) seems to me a bit neither fish nor fowl. I would have thought that after the Olympic 1500 final "double thresholds" would have lost some of their popularity! Not sure if any of the three guys that beat Jacob do this form of training!
Longer sustained efforts are coming... and I agree theres a place for intervals with breaks and a place for longer straight through efforts... I tend to put those in closer to the race. Haha thats a good point, I think in the moment he let the pressure of the media get on top of him and didnt run his own race, as proven by last nights diamond league.
@@TheFODRunner I think that Jacob got it into his head that the only way he cpould win the 1500 was to run as fast as possible. He actually turned the race into a tyupical Diamond League race - with himself as pacemaker. A very fast first 800 then a slight lull before the last 400 - Jacob's 200 from 800 to 1000 was his slowest. He would have been better off running the first 500 a couple of seconds slower, the next 500 faster than the first and then you are entering the last 500 accelerating instead of slowing. I also think Kerr and Hocker managed to convince Jacob that they had better kicks than him. not totally sure of this!
@@markbateman9222 totally agree… you could see from the semi final when he went straight to the front past Kerr and didn’t let him back past that it was in his head… such a shame really but then we all love a good curveball in an Olympic final. Coles kick that day was out of this world and he capitalised on what was a sensational race overall!
Do you know of studies comparing zone 2 to zone1?
I don’t have any to hand, but there are plenty out there where you search for them. Also I remember Stephen scullion sharing a paper in the link of one of his videos…. That was a very interesting read and it mentioned that the optimal load for an athlete training with a big load to be 3 x 60 minute steady runs a week
@@TheFODRunner thanks for the tip. That may be hard to find because he makes a lot of videos. 😄
I'm confused, i thought zone 2 was easy, so what's 'steady' is that upper zone 2, also is 'moderate' zone 3 ?
Some people call zone 1 recovery and zone 2 easy… some people don’t even try to run in zone 1 and just start in zone 2… there are so many ways of interpretting the zones and people have different labels for them.
For me, zone 1 is easy and zone 2 is steady/moderate. Zone 3 is then above your aerobic threshold and you’re getting into the territory of marathon pace
@TheFODRunner Yes, I'd agree with that. I'd call Zone 1 'easy/recovery', and only use those sparingly, the day after a hard Zone 4-5 workout (hill reps or short intervals). Then Zone 2 is more like 'steady', and as you get fitter this starts to feel quite fast.. I think that's what Tim G suggested was about 45s slower than marathon pace, which for me is spot on. Now some days even Zone 1 can feel like a decent effort. So I think if someone can only manage a brisk walk at Zone 1, then it probably means a longer base building' phase is needed in order to get properly aerobically fit. For me this came about by following the so-called 'MAF method', and always doing training runs on an empty stomach. Anyway - really enjoyed the video - keep up the good work!! 👏 👏👏
How do you calculate your zones? HRR? % of max? Other?
I use my max and plumbed it into various HR zone calculators, including my garmin connect app and taken a rough average of them all… with a max around 187/188 I have found over the years that it’s best I keep my easy runs sub 135bpm and moderates sub 148/149 bpm.
Note though, I don’t run to HR, I check my watch here and there during a run to see if I’m roughly in the right area but I’ll just check the data when im home, I like to try and run by feel most of the time
@@TheFODRunner Thanks Andy
I think to be accurate with HR zones, you need LAB testing. I don’t think random calculators give accurate readings. I think simplifying running works way better than got hang up on zones or complex workouts.
@@ronalddavies5315 yes, I mentioned in other comments I’ve been speaking to a local university about going to get my threshold zones tested and a vo2max test… it’ll happen after the summer holidays
Sorry but I don’t think you can get accurate Max HR via random calculators - you need to get LAB tested. Running should be simple - a good balance between hard/easy. Zone talk is just complicating what has been going on for donkeys years. I refer you to the famous kiwi coach Arthur Lydiard.
Yes I think I replied to your other comment but a proper lab test has already been discussed via email and being sorted after summer and maybe after the marathon block. But definitely this year.
He was indeed a very famous coach, and a very clever one… but I’m more of a fan of a modern approach from some newer coaches.
@@TheFODRunnerit's interesting when people talk about lab testing being some gold standard. Running on the treadmill is not the same as running on the road in terms of surface or technique or equipment, neither is running indoors to running outdoors because of conditions. The results from that kind of test irrelevant to outdoor road/trail training and racing.
@@si4928you cannot get accurate MAX HR by guessing or using random calculators, that’s my point
@@si4928 HR has so many variables - you cannot just use random numbers and call that accurate. It's pretty useless metrics to be honest.
And your I presume in your 30’s, as time goes by and reach your 50’s recovery and easy runs are needed more as we don’t recover as well… oh to be in my 30’s again LOL. Whatever the naysayers say if it works for you at your current fitness levels without reaching fatigue state then that’s great. I think the confusion comes when you call moderate /steady in zone 2 where many would call that high zone 2 pushing into zone 3/4. When look at some of these calculators they call the zones different terms…. Agree with all you say though budd 🎉 ignore the zone 2 preachers, some are as bad as those in keto diet cults or vegan hardcorians 😂 and most don’t really understand the science behind it anyway and to add those getting fatigued in the claimed zone 2 are probably not fueling correctly with a poor fueling diet… eat to fuel not eat for pleasure 🎉
Thanks buddy 👊 yeah massive confusion in terms of terminology… people label things different and that can often be part of the issue! I agree with the eating to fuel statement 🙌
@@TheFODRunner so so much more to zone 2 though, it’s very interesting learning about how the human body fuels our excersions at various stages, burnings fats to carbs and the stages in between. Infuriates me when people go on about running un fuelled or in a fasted state, i get it CAN train our bodies to be more efficient at burning fats for fuel but that takes a long time. Our bodies are not machines, takes a car, which is a machine, you don’t fuel it and it stops, put fuel in again and goes with no ill effects. Our body is a far far more complex bio organism and is not the case if don’t fuel you will stop, more likely you will actually break and then need a long term fix. As athletes we need to learn just as much about correct nutrition for fuelling as we do about shoes or zones. Coach Karl over and out 👁️👁️. Always love a good FOD video after my Sunday long runs. Sat in garden with my post run fuelling overnight oats mix, a protein smoothies and a jar of crunchy peanut butter. Birds singing oh what bliss ( and I also fuelled pre sun as well 👌 )
@@karlbratby4349 💯 cheers buddy appreciate it!