@endimion17 It should be noted that the spheres in our video aren't part of the magnet. They are just steel ball bearings used to decrease the gap between the poles and to concentrate the field in their region.
@CrazyInWeston Ya' know, the Closed Captioning is a huge pain to make, especially since I don't type all that well or all that quickly. But, I believe it's well worth doing. Glad to know it's being used!
@witadio2 We used liquid nitrogen to condense the liquid oxygen out of the air. We also condensed oxygen from one of those small cylinders you can get from the hardware store for home acetylene welders. We show the set-up in the 'Behind the Scenes' video.
@darkheat246 Sorry, but how am I partly right? How is "Solids don't actually burn. They first have to be converted to a gas." different than what you are saying?
First, let me say thank you for responding so quickly. You all have quite a number of videos (and hence comments to respond to), as well as other jobs at the Jefferson Lab, and I appreciate the time you put into responding to the many questions I see posted. So for a "fire" do the products have to be chemically stable? Would there be some other more correct term to use for this process?
@TTURocketDoc I really can't tell you much about the magnet. It was salvaged from some piece of equipment many years ago. Note that the 'poles' of the magnet are 3/4" steel ball bearings that are there to help intensify the field as well as shorten the gap.
@AdudenamedKemp I have no idea. Wouldn't surprise me, though. They are always trying to 'improve' things. Especially the things that don't really need improving.
That's a benefit, but the asphyxiation problem is easy enough to avoid if one uses a room appropriately sized to the amount of liquid nitrogen present. Having an oxygen accelerated fire is a much greater concern. When we filmed this, we had to have an O2 meter nearby. It was set to alarm at 23% O2. Normal air contains 21% O2.
I'll have to get back with you on the field strength of the magnet. We borrowed it for filming and it'll take me a day or two to track down it's owner. The silver balls are 3/4" diameter ball bearings. They are there because we had the same problem you are having. The poles were too far apart and we couldn't adjust the spacing enough to make it work. So, we put the ball bearings in. As you can see, it worked great. Good luck!
@TheGingerGerman It's mainly the forces between the particles of a liquid that determines the liquid's boiling point at a given pressure. The weaker the forces between particles, the lower the boiling point will be.
More that it remains a liquid at lower temperatures, so what's being cooled can be cooled to a lower temperature. You want the coolant to be a liquid, in part, so that you can pump it through pipes and get it to where it needs to be. Once the coolant freezes solid, it can't be pumped any longer.
@TiagoTiagoT It's a property of the molecule itself, so it doesn't depend on the phase it's in. You don't get oxygen enrichment around the poles of the magnet due particles of a gas are moving much too fast.
@PRHSChemistry We didn't order the magnet. We borrowed it some someone who works here and they salvaged it out of some old piece of equipment that was getting junked. There's a label on it that says it's from GE, but that's about it. The little neodymium you can get are strong enough to do this. Granted, small magnets aren't as impressive, but they're also only a few dollars.
@kimdachi For our intended audience, yes. And, it isn't something that can be explained properly in a sentence or two. For those who are truly interested, it isn't hard to do further research now that they know the terms diamagnetic and paramagnetic.
Very detailed and nice demonstration. Perhaps you could teach us a bit more on the concepts of paramagnetism and diamagnetism? like, diamagnetism repulsion is a response caused by the electron orbital's magnetic field to repel away an induced magnetic field, and in paramagnetism, the above said effect does apply but it is overpowered by the presence of spin of the unpaired electrons.
@sesstreets Strong. Very strong. It's a fairly old magnet that was taken out of a piece of equipment, so I doubt that it's a rare earth magnet. Alnico, maybe? I really don't know.
@ApertureScience27 Because air is more than just nitrogen and oxygen. Only oxygen is paramagnetic, so it could conceivably be used to separate oxygen from everything else, but then you'd still need to use fractional distillation for anything else you want to get. Plus, you can run much higher volumes with fractional distillation than you can with a magnet. Ultimately, fractional distillation is less expensive.
You can use magnets to concentrate oxygen in the area around the poles, but separating the oxygen is a bit much to ask. The particles of a gas are moving too quickly for that to be effective.
Sorry, I had interpreted 'expansion due to body heat' as describing the liquid -> gas expansion and not the expansion of the liquid itself. In regards to that, gases expand much more due to temperature increases than liquids do. Our lungs don't have a problem with the thermal expansion of air, so it shouldn't be a problem for a liquid. If we assume standard pressure, O2 poisoning will eventually be a problem. Looks like they'd have between 15 minutes and 4 hours before symptoms appear.
@iamnull0 See "Liquid Nitrogen vs. Liquid Oxygen: Fire" for something similar to what you're suggesting. As for the magnet, I don't know its field strength. I think it's around 1 T.
I don't remember right off. We borrowed it from someone at the Lab. I'll try to go to their office this week and take a look at it. There's a label on it that might give me a clue as to what it was used for.
@66yoyomama Assuming that you have the training and equipment to safely handle, store and transport the nitrogen, try contacting a local welding supply shop.
@lc2dae It is possible to create and destroy matter. That's the meaning behind E = mc^2. Matter is just a form of stored energy and we are free to convert energy from one form to another. Combine an electron (possessing mass) with a positron (possessing mass) and you end up with two 511 KeV photons (no mass). Also, oxygen doesn't burn because oxygen is an oxidizer, not a fuel.
@iownudie108 Boiling liquid oxygen is warmer than boiling liquid nitrogen. That's why we were able to produce the liquid oxygen in the first place. The actual numbers are 90.2 K for oxygen and 77.4 K for nitrogen at standard pressure.
@sidewaysfcs0718 Right, oxygen does not burn. It only supports burning. Look at the video we made about combustion (Liquid Nitrogen vs. Liquid Oxygen: Fire). You'll see that when we throw a lit match into liquid oxygen, the fire burns until it runs out of match. There is still liquid oxygen in the test tube, but the fire goes out because of a lack of fuel. Same sort of thing with pure hydrogen. Spark all you like. It won't do anything. Now, mix the two and spark...
Yes. The paramagnetism is a result of how oxygen molecules are put together. This doesn't change depending on whether the oxygen is a solid, liquid or gas.
The particles which make-up air are moving so quickly at room temperature that I would be surprised if there were a measurable difference near the poles of the magnet.
What this means is that above its critical temperature, a substance cannot exist as a liquid, no matter how much pressure it's placed under. So, in order to have oxygen in the form of a liquid, it must be below its critical temperature. At temperatures lower than the critical temperature, less pressure is required for oxygen to exist as a liquid. If you want oxygen to be a liquid at atmospheric pressure, you just have to get it cold enough.
@aboriani It does happen. The molecular structure of gaseous oxygen is the same as liquid oxygen. You don't get oxygen gas building up at the poles of strong magnets because the speed of gas molecules is so high (rms for room temperature O2 is about 480 m/s).
@Jon58004 Not much. Both are close to the same temperature, with liquid oxygen being a bit warmer. If you mix the two, you would boil off a bit of the nitrogen and eventually end up with a mix of nitrogen and oxygen at 77 Kelvin.
@PyroJuggalo2021 Ignoring the freezing to death issue, it still wouldn't work. Your stomach doesn't do the same job as your lungs. The 'air' would be ending up in the wrong place if you drank it.
@aboriani Of course, the magnetic fields you are typically exposed to aren't anywhere nearly as strong as the field between the poles of our magnet. We're talking several orders of magnitude here. The magnetic fields from other stars or planets have absolutely no measurable effect on you.
Hi guys, i like your movie clips! Im planning an experiment myself; for this i will need to fabricate a "cup" on a steel surface. Any ideas on a cheap solution? For instance cutting the bottom from a regular plastic cup and using PU glue to stick it on the steel....will it hold?? Cheers, Bram
It doesn't matter how strong the magnets are. Water is diamagnetic, not paramagnetic. It is repelled by external magnetic fields, not attracted by them.
@Zalatie It's possible, but the cost of cryogenic tanks doesn't make it worth it. There's also no need to give divers days worth of air. This is a useful method of storing oxygen for things like the space station, though.
@soulwarriorwithn Among other things. Take a look around the room. Things that are solid have frozen, things that are liquid have melted and things that are gas have boiled. Want a gas to become a liquid or a solid? You have to get it cold. Want a solid to become a liquid or a gas? You have to get it hot.
What is the minimum magnetic field intensity required to obtain this phenomenon....and why is it that oxygen exhibits this property only in liquid state (other than kinetic energy of the molecules in gases is high and so is velocity )..??
nice and thank you. nv studied magnetism growing up so i was kinda taken aback by the concepts of dia- and paramagnetism. The video helped me understand their effects, but would a scientific explanation of the phenomena that dives into the interaction betw the B-field and electrons be too hard to understand?
@JeffersonLab Yes, I've presumed those were steel spheres which work just as good. The field can be really concentrated that way. Though the best would be to use neodymium magnet spheres... but it's not like that would change this experiment appreciately.
As far as I know, nitrogen is not superconductive at any temperature. But, even if it were, it would exhibit diamagnetism, not paramagnetism. It would exclude the magnetic field from its interior. Think of the classic superconductor/levitating magnet demo (which we also have a video of).
"Hello. I’m Dr. Sheldon Cooper, and welcome to the premiere episode of Sheldon Cooper Presents Fun with Flags. "
I'm not normally magnetic, but when I am, I'm in a liquid state.
K3NatCSS saaaame
Cool! Never knew that, and thanks for the Closed Captioning =)
Congratulations! Glad we could help!
Depending on the relative amounts of each, you basically make liquid air. There isn't some sort of interesting reaction, if that's what you're after.
@endimion17 It should be noted that the spheres in our video aren't part of the magnet. They are just steel ball bearings used to decrease the gap between the poles and to concentrate the field in their region.
@CrazyInWeston Ya' know, the Closed Captioning is a huge pain to make, especially since I don't type all that well or all that quickly. But, I believe it's well worth doing. Glad to know it's being used!
Even 15 years after your video post, fascinating experimental visualization of how electron spin may affect materials.
This is a most useful demonstration!
@witadio2 We used liquid nitrogen to condense the liquid oxygen out of the air. We also condensed oxygen from one of those small cylinders you can get from the hardware store for home acetylene welders. We show the set-up in the 'Behind the Scenes' video.
I love your videos JeffersonLab, MAKE MORE. Especially the ones in the classrooms. A funny science nerd is a life saver on my part. :D
@darkheat246 Sorry, but how am I partly right? How is "Solids don't actually burn. They first have to be converted to a gas." different than what you are saying?
Even after 11 years you are replying. Video is very good.
Thank you so much!!
You're welcome!
Thanki very much awesome demonstration
The nitrogen falls through and the oxygen sticks to the magnet.
First, let me say thank you for responding so quickly. You all have quite a number of videos (and hence comments to respond to), as well as other jobs at the Jefferson Lab, and I appreciate the time you put into responding to the many questions I see posted.
So for a "fire" do the products have to be chemically stable? Would there be some other more correct term to use for this process?
@JeffersonLab that makes sense. Thanks for responding, I had been wondering about that for a while.
COOL, i mean cool literally
1:58 looks like end of a kiss
The pun game is strong .w.
Great explanation
What cans?
@DatMexicano57 By making it cold enough. In our case, we used liquid nitrogen to cool oxygen gas to the point where it turned into a liquid.
@TTURocketDoc I really can't tell you much about the magnet. It was salvaged from some piece of equipment many years ago. Note that the 'poles' of the magnet are 3/4" steel ball bearings that are there to help intensify the field as well as shorten the gap.
Absolutely Amazing
thanks jeff u just Gave me an idea for a new fuel
@AdudenamedKemp I have no idea. Wouldn't surprise me, though. They are always trying to 'improve' things. Especially the things that don't really need improving.
That's a benefit, but the asphyxiation problem is easy enough to avoid if one uses a room appropriately sized to the amount of liquid nitrogen present. Having an oxygen accelerated fire is a much greater concern. When we filmed this, we had to have an O2 meter nearby. It was set to alarm at 23% O2. Normal air contains 21% O2.
I'll have to get back with you on the field strength of the magnet. We borrowed it for filming and it'll take me a day or two to track down it's owner.
The silver balls are 3/4" diameter ball bearings. They are there because we had the same problem you are having. The poles were too far apart and we couldn't adjust the spacing enough to make it work. So, we put the ball bearings in. As you can see, it worked great.
Good luck!
@JeffersonLab Good, I like short answers, and thats all I needed.
Great work on explaining things to people in this forum. Thank you!
@TheMaplerPlayer Yes. It's only a few degrees warmer than liquid nitrogen. It is a whole lot more reactive, though, and that can cause big problems.
Watching your videos medicated blows my mind i love your videos guys!
Really like these videos
@TheGingerGerman It's mainly the forces between the particles of a liquid that determines the liquid's boiling point at a given pressure. The weaker the forces between particles, the lower the boiling point will be.
More that it remains a liquid at lower temperatures, so what's being cooled can be cooled to a lower temperature. You want the coolant to be a liquid, in part, so that you can pump it through pipes and get it to where it needs to be. Once the coolant freezes solid, it can't be pumped any longer.
@TiagoTiagoT It's a property of the molecule itself, so it doesn't depend on the phase it's in. You don't get oxygen enrichment around the poles of the magnet due particles of a gas are moving much too fast.
@PRHSChemistry We didn't order the magnet. We borrowed it some someone who works here and they salvaged it out of some old piece of equipment that was getting junked. There's a label on it that says it's from GE, but that's about it. The little neodymium you can get are strong enough to do this. Granted, small magnets aren't as impressive, but they're also only a few dollars.
@madamerouge123 No. It's molecular nitrogen (N2) mixed with molecular oxygen (O2), just like it is in the air.
@kimdachi For our intended audience, yes. And, it isn't something that can be explained properly in a sentence or two. For those who are truly interested, it isn't hard to do further research now that they know the terms diamagnetic and paramagnetic.
During the intro voiceover?
Very detailed and nice demonstration. Perhaps you could teach us a bit more on the concepts of paramagnetism and diamagnetism? like, diamagnetism repulsion is a response caused by the electron orbital's magnetic field to repel away an induced magnetic field, and in paramagnetism, the above said effect does apply but it is overpowered by the presence of spin of the unpaired electrons.
@bomba1170 Under normal atmospheric pressure, boiling liquid nitrogen is a little colder than boiling liquid oxygen.
It is very good .It explains the behaviour of the two liquids
@Sodorii I think the boiling makes it look that way.
@sesstreets Strong. Very strong.
It's a fairly old magnet that was taken out of a piece of equipment, so I doubt that it's a rare earth magnet. Alnico, maybe? I really don't know.
@ApertureScience27 Because air is more than just nitrogen and oxygen. Only oxygen is paramagnetic, so it could conceivably be used to separate oxygen from everything else, but then you'd still need to use fractional distillation for anything else you want to get. Plus, you can run much higher volumes with fractional distillation than you can with a magnet. Ultimately, fractional distillation is less expensive.
Welcome!
It's a function of electron pairing, how the electrons fill the 'levels' around the atom.
You can use magnets to concentrate oxygen in the area around the poles, but separating the oxygen is a bit much to ask. The particles of a gas are moving too quickly for that to be effective.
Sorry, I had interpreted 'expansion due to body heat' as describing the liquid -> gas expansion and not the expansion of the liquid itself. In regards to that, gases expand much more due to temperature increases than liquids do. Our lungs don't have a problem with the thermal expansion of air, so it shouldn't be a problem for a liquid.
If we assume standard pressure, O2 poisoning will eventually be a problem. Looks like they'd have between 15 minutes and 4 hours before symptoms appear.
@iamnull0 See "Liquid Nitrogen vs. Liquid Oxygen: Fire" for something similar to what you're suggesting. As for the magnet, I don't know its field strength. I think it's around 1 T.
I don't remember right off. We borrowed it from someone at the Lab. I'll try to go to their office this week and take a look at it. There's a label on it that might give me a clue as to what it was used for.
@66yoyomama Assuming that you have the training and equipment to safely handle, store and transport the nitrogen, try contacting a local welding supply shop.
@ironicstatement Because of the lack of vapor. Solids don't actually burn. They first have to be converted to a gas.
that is so cool, I love this type of stuff.
This is cool good job
@SuperLadiesman619 Yeah, that is fun to watch.
The exercise presupposes that you can survive the cold. Hence, the "ignoring the fact that you'd freeze to death first" blurb.
@Tenatiouz I think you're just seeing cold air 'spilling' on the magnet.
@lc2dae It is possible to create and destroy matter. That's the meaning behind E = mc^2. Matter is just a form of stored energy and we are free to convert energy from one form to another. Combine an electron (possessing mass) with a positron (possessing mass) and you end up with two 511 KeV photons (no mass).
Also, oxygen doesn't burn because oxygen is an oxidizer, not a fuel.
@JeffersonLab Thank you.
I have to say, I found this video by random. Good News it was AWESOME!!!! I subed.
learn something new everyday... that's awesome
@bl1nd88 The 'fumes' that you see is condensed water vapor, just like you get when you see your breath on a cold day. Not harmful at all.
Thanks for replaying
@magicmagicninjawhat1 We did in another video. See 'Liquid Nitrogen vs. Liquid Oxygen: Fire.'
@derkade It depends on how much you are buying. For us, it costs about $1 a gallon.
"More" is my favorite word to use in the lab.
@iownudie108 Boiling liquid oxygen is warmer than boiling liquid nitrogen. That's why we were able to produce the liquid oxygen in the first place. The actual numbers are 90.2 K for oxygen and 77.4 K for nitrogen at standard pressure.
@sidewaysfcs0718 Right, oxygen does not burn. It only supports burning. Look at the video we made about combustion (Liquid Nitrogen vs. Liquid Oxygen: Fire). You'll see that when we throw a lit match into liquid oxygen, the fire burns until it runs out of match. There is still liquid oxygen in the test tube, but the fire goes out because of a lack of fuel. Same sort of thing with pure hydrogen. Spark all you like. It won't do anything. Now, mix the two and spark...
thanks. any idea what the old piece of equipment was?
Don't know, exactly. It was removed from an old piece of equipment by someone else at the Lab.
Yes. The paramagnetism is a result of how oxygen molecules are put together. This doesn't change depending on whether the oxygen is a solid, liquid or gas.
@ThatPinkBeardedGuy Closer to each other? No, the distance between the poles of the magnet didn't change.
The particles which make-up air are moving so quickly at room temperature that I would be surprised if there were a measurable difference near the poles of the magnet.
How is it being wasted?
The atmosphere is about 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. They are quite stable in each other's company.
What this means is that above its critical temperature, a substance cannot exist as a liquid, no matter how much pressure it's placed under. So, in order to have oxygen in the form of a liquid, it must be below its critical temperature. At temperatures lower than the critical temperature, less pressure is required for oxygen to exist as a liquid. If you want oxygen to be a liquid at atmospheric pressure, you just have to get it cold enough.
@TheGingerGerman Yep.
It's one way. Fractional distillation is more effective, though.
@aboriani It does happen. The molecular structure of gaseous oxygen is the same as liquid oxygen. You don't get oxygen gas building up at the poles of strong magnets because the speed of gas molecules is so high (rms for room temperature O2 is about 480 m/s).
@Jon58004 Not much. Both are close to the same temperature, with liquid oxygen being a bit warmer. If you mix the two, you would boil off a bit of the nitrogen and eventually end up with a mix of nitrogen and oxygen at 77 Kelvin.
Yes.
@ThePuglover7 At standard pressure, oxygen melts at about 54 K and boils at about 90 K.
@PyroJuggalo2021 Ignoring the freezing to death issue, it still wouldn't work. Your stomach doesn't do the same job as your lungs. The 'air' would be ending up in the wrong place if you drank it.
@Ykid1000 Yes. There's liquid helium, liquid hydrogen, liquid argon, liquid neon...
@aboriani Of course, the magnetic fields you are typically exposed to aren't anywhere nearly as strong as the field between the poles of our magnet. We're talking several orders of magnitude here. The magnetic fields from other stars or planets have absolutely no measurable effect on you.
Hi guys, i like your movie clips! Im planning an experiment myself; for this i will need to fabricate a "cup" on a steel surface. Any ideas on a cheap solution? For instance cutting the bottom from a regular plastic cup and using PU glue to stick it on the steel....will it hold?? Cheers, Bram
Guys that was the coolest thing I've ever seen
No. We borrowed the magnet from someone else at the Lab. If I run into them, I'll try to remember to ask if they remember.
@SkittleluvinAngel The electronic device gets very cold. Maybe it breaks. Maybe it doesn't. Depends on what materials it's made from.
thanks Jefferson Lab i got a A on this you guys rock :)
It doesn't matter how strong the magnets are. Water is diamagnetic, not paramagnetic. It is repelled by external magnetic fields, not attracted by them.
@nazaxprime Short answer: electron configuration
Beautiful
@Zalatie It's possible, but the cost of cryogenic tanks doesn't make it worth it. There's also no need to give divers days worth of air. This is a useful method of storing oxygen for things like the space station, though.
Very cool.
Thumbs up for science
@soulwarriorwithn Among other things. Take a look around the room. Things that are solid have frozen, things that are liquid have melted and things that are gas have boiled. Want a gas to become a liquid or a solid? You have to get it cold. Want a solid to become a liquid or a gas? You have to get it hot.
What is the minimum magnetic field intensity required to obtain this phenomenon....and why is it that oxygen exhibits this property only in liquid state (other than kinetic energy of the molecules in gases is high and so is velocity )..??
nice and thank you. nv studied magnetism growing up so i was kinda taken aback by the concepts of dia- and paramagnetism. The video helped me understand their effects, but would a scientific explanation of the phenomena that dives into the interaction betw the B-field and electrons be too hard to understand?
@JeffersonLab Yes, I've presumed those were steel spheres which work just as good. The field can be really concentrated that way.
Though the best would be to use neodymium magnet spheres... but it's not like that would change this experiment appreciately.
As far as I know, nitrogen is not superconductive at any temperature. But, even if it were, it would exhibit diamagnetism, not paramagnetism. It would exclude the magnetic field from its interior. Think of the classic superconductor/levitating magnet demo (which we also have a video of).