@21:10 you make reference to Dive reflex? Did you mean Gasp reflex? Mammalian Dive Reflex slows down blood flow, to aid the conservation of Oxygen when under water. Gasp or Torso Reflex is due to sudden immersion leading to rapid uncontrolled inhalation.
Can you just hook your rescuer tender line into the breakaway ring on the back of your PFD or do you need to have the webbing harness included as well? Just confused as to whether you need to don the additional harness over the PFD or just utilize the PFD by itself. Thanks and keep up these great training videos.
+ThePhoenix3172 Yes you absolutely can. However, we have found the safety ring connection to be really unreliable for a fixed pull point in ice because the buckle mechanism gets frigid, filled with snow or ice, and can be easily inadvertently released without the rescuer's knowledge. We did some pretty exhaustive field testing on this. Half of the time the rescuer would tap his helmet for pull out, the safety strap would come out and the safety ring and tend line would separate from the rescuer. So... we strongly recommend adding the webbing harness to maintain a reliable attachment point. Thanks for the input. We'd love to hear about any variables you have or any other solutions you come up with. Stay Safe.
Great!!! Thanks a bunch. We had planned on doing an ice rescue training this week, but the temps are going to be up for the next few days so looks like we're gonna have to postpone. Once we're able to drill on this, I'll let you know what positives/negatives we encounter. You guys stay safe as well.
At minute 5:44 you talk about harnesses have you tried using harness like the ones in rope rescue. I was curious if the lower pick point by the hips would be easier to extricate the ice rescuer over the ice mantle.
+Ryan Parrish We have not tried that Ryan. That's a great point about the lower rigging point. We will give it a try this winter and see how it plays out. Thanks for the suggestion
Had another question for ya. When operating in a static water source using a 1:1 pull (no M/A), are aluminum or steel carabiners preferred? Looking to pick some up for my personal gear and I've found some 30kN ones, but not sure if steel or aluminum. Also, if you switch to moving water, which hardware is preferred? Thx.
+ThePhoenix3172 I really like alloys for water applications. You get the light weight of aluminum and the strength of steel. However, they're expensive. If you want to stick with just aluminum or steel, you have two basic considerations - aluminum grabs rope and generates a lot of friction especially when it is wet - example: hanging grab handles on a tensioned line, the carbines don't slide easily. Steel slides easily on the rope for these types of water applications. Also, water is rarely going to generate the loads that we are concerned about engineering for in vertical applications - so steel is kind of an overkill from a load design perspective. Last point to consider is your gates. You see a lot of non locking carbines in water caches. The non locking biners are important for specific applications but should not be applied for anchor points or MCP's or tensioned lines. Hope that helped. Thanks for the inquiry and keep us up to date on your trainings. Still anxious to hear about your ice rigging results. Stay safe and train hard!
+Rescue Methods great, thanks for the info. I'll probably just go with a couple steel, locking biners for when I marry a webbing harness and my PFD together (as you showed in the video). One in front and one in back. Now, about the training. Of course the week we schedule to do ice, mother nature decided to melt it all. So, we just practiced getting guys in suits and sending one out in the pond as a victim and having another go out and bring him in. Better than nothing, I suppose. I did some of the instruction and I showed guys how to utilize a victim cinch line and rescuer retrieval line all in the same rope (also, as shown in your video). Personally, I loved that technique. Leaving the cinch line clipped to the front of your harness, made it very easy to keep both hands free to navigate and contact the victim. Then it was as simple as arm/head/arm and cinch tight. Got A LOT from your two ice rescue videos and used it as the foundation for our week's hands-on training portion, even though we didn't have the ice. There's always next year.
+Ryan Parrish Yes. The key would be to insure you had appropriate thermal protection under the swift water suit. Even if you didn't, in a pinch, a swift water suit would provide a fairly good level of protection for a limited time.
Excellent way to break the shelf in front of an incapacitated victim and send them to the bottom. Quit hooking up in the back. Your back doesn’t flex that way and you are going to hurt your rescuers. Use a buoyant cinching sling for incapacitated victims. Seperate it by 6 feet for weight dispersion.
Very Helpful! I am working on the Ice Skating Merit Badge for Eagle.
@21:10 you make reference to Dive reflex? Did you mean Gasp reflex? Mammalian Dive Reflex slows down blood flow, to aid the conservation of Oxygen when under water. Gasp or Torso Reflex is due to sudden immersion leading to rapid uncontrolled inhalation.
Can you just hook your rescuer tender line into the breakaway ring on the back of your PFD or do you need to have the webbing harness included as well? Just confused as to whether you need to don the additional harness over the PFD or just utilize the PFD by itself. Thanks and keep up these great training videos.
+ThePhoenix3172 Yes you absolutely can. However, we have found the safety ring connection to be really unreliable for a fixed pull point in ice because the buckle mechanism gets frigid, filled with snow or ice, and can be easily inadvertently released without the rescuer's knowledge. We did some pretty exhaustive field testing on this. Half of the time the rescuer would tap his helmet for pull out, the safety strap would come out and the safety ring and tend line would separate from the rescuer. So... we strongly recommend adding the webbing harness to maintain a reliable attachment point. Thanks for the input. We'd love to hear about any variables you have or any other solutions you come up with. Stay Safe.
Great!!! Thanks a bunch. We had planned on doing an ice rescue training this week, but the temps are going to be up for the next few days so looks like we're gonna have to postpone. Once we're able to drill on this, I'll let you know what positives/negatives we encounter. You guys stay safe as well.
At minute 5:44 you talk about harnesses have you tried using harness like the ones in rope rescue. I was curious if the lower pick point by the hips would be easier to extricate the ice rescuer over the ice mantle.
+Ryan Parrish We have not tried that Ryan. That's a great point about the lower rigging point. We will give it a try this winter and see how it plays out. Thanks for the suggestion
Had another question for ya. When operating in a static water source using a 1:1 pull (no M/A), are aluminum or steel carabiners preferred? Looking to pick some up for my personal gear and I've found some 30kN ones, but not sure if steel or aluminum. Also, if you switch to moving water, which hardware is preferred? Thx.
+ThePhoenix3172 I really like alloys for water applications. You get the light weight of aluminum and the strength of steel. However, they're expensive. If you want to stick with just aluminum or steel, you have two basic considerations - aluminum grabs rope and generates a lot of friction especially when it is wet - example: hanging grab handles on a tensioned line, the carbines don't slide easily. Steel slides easily on the rope for these types of water applications. Also, water is rarely going to generate the loads that we are concerned about engineering for in vertical applications - so steel is kind of an overkill from a load design perspective. Last point to consider is your gates. You see a lot of non locking carbines in water caches. The non locking biners are important for specific applications but should not be applied for anchor points or MCP's or tensioned lines. Hope that helped. Thanks for the inquiry and keep us up to date on your trainings. Still anxious to hear about your ice rigging results. Stay safe and train hard!
+Rescue Methods great, thanks for the info. I'll probably just go with a couple steel, locking biners for when I marry a webbing harness and my PFD together (as you showed in the video). One in front and one in back. Now, about the training. Of course the week we schedule to do ice, mother nature decided to melt it all. So, we just practiced getting guys in suits and sending one out in the pond as a victim and having another go out and bring him in. Better than nothing, I suppose. I did some of the instruction and I showed guys how to utilize a victim cinch line and rescuer retrieval line all in the same rope (also, as shown in your video). Personally, I loved that technique. Leaving the cinch line clipped to the front of your harness, made it very easy to keep both hands free to navigate and contact the victim. Then it was as simple as arm/head/arm and cinch tight. Got A LOT from your two ice rescue videos and used it as the foundation for our week's hands-on training portion, even though we didn't have the ice. There's always next year.
Could you use a swift water rescue suit instead of an ice commander?
+Ryan Parrish Yes. The key would be to insure you had appropriate thermal protection under the swift water suit. Even if you didn't, in a pinch, a swift water suit would provide a fairly good level of protection for a limited time.
Aurora Fire Rescue feels like some cow boy shit after watching this video. This feels safer.
Excellent way to break the shelf in front of an incapacitated victim and send them to the bottom.
Quit hooking up in the back.
Your back doesn’t flex that way and you are going to hurt your rescuers.
Use a buoyant cinching sling for incapacitated victims.
Seperate it by 6 feet for weight dispersion.