I Drilled this MSI RX 6900XT and It Works - Very rare problem
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 08. 2023
- 👉Need a repair? krisfix.de/en/geraet-einsenden
👉KrisFix Shop: www.gpufix.de
👉Question about repair: service@krisfix.de
👉Follow me on Instagram: / krisfixgermany
Tools and parts used in this video:
👉Thermal Pads of all sizes:
www.gpufix.de/en/thermo-pads-...
👉BGA Reballing Gel No Clean IF8300:
www.gpufix.de/en/bga-gel-flux...
👉FluxPlus 6-412-A No-Clean (NC):
www.gpufix.de/de/FluxPlus-6-4...
👉High Precision Tweezers - AAA-14:
www.gpufix.de/en/high-precisi...
👉Mechanic R300 Desoldering Wick:
www.gpufix.de/en/mechanic-r30...
👉MECHANIC UV Solder Mask:
www.gpufix.de/en/mechanic-uv-...
👉Wylie Solder Lugs :
www.gpufix.de/en/wylie-solder...
👉Dental Drill Bur Adapter 2,35mm zu 1,6mm:
www.gpufix.de/de/dental-drill...
👉Polishing Silicon Bit:
www.gpufix.de/de/advanced_sea...
#gpu #repair #krisfixgermany
Pictures: www.techpowerup.com/ - Věda a technologie
The trace length in this repair is of critical importance. The tolerance of error is very small. If the length is not correct then the timing will not be correct and the card will not be able to clock and operate at high frequencies.
3DMark results can be seen here:
instagram.com/p/Cv7GEB-tj3D/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
So are you saying with this repair the card runs, but not as well as it would brand new due to the trace length?
What he is saying is that you must be mindful of the length, not that he didn't provide the correct length.
Wire lengths are super sensitive at this scale, especially at this speed. Though being the fact that he knew exactly where the trace was 3 layers down. I bet he matched the length that was hidden within the PCB. And he tested it afterwards.
@@LessSkilled The results of all tests are perfect. No difference from a new card
I hope in my apprenticeship for becoming a Elektroniker für Geräte und Systeme i'll have the option to work on something as delicate as this.
The miniscule size and complexity is so magical to me.
Thanks for the video :3
I wanted to write a comment about the trace length, but you already mentioned it. That's a really good quality job you did there. First I thought you would run the cable around the card or something like that which would be horrible.
This guy is on another level. Thanks for putting together this video.
@@foenix8094if only kris consulted you before doing this :(
@@foenix8094 No one is perfect
Bruh that's a bloody understatement, been doing repairs for over 10 years but this guy, right here is just something else.
We never saw the card working again, though. :D
@@foenix8094 did you see how small that area actually is? it is maybe 3mm wide, try not damaging anything around that while trying to film it for a video, besides, couple caps that cost next to nothing and a simple wire across to connect the trace he touched is a complete nonissue
The level of skill you display here is genuinely phenomenal. Such tiny and intricate work and you present it in such a way that it's very easy to understand and follow.
Glad you like it
@@KrisFixGermany you better not doing some hard works with your precious pair of hands . I used to be proud of myself soldering tiny things during the 80s but everything was 10x bigger back then 🤣 too bad I also work at the construction site dealing with heavy things, abusing my hands then I got tremors 😏
@@puckchew Strength have no effect on precision.
I do/have done a lot of heavy lifting for 19+ years. Mostly lifting weights as part of strength training - but have also done some work at various places and often make the workers look ridiculous when it comes to lift/move stuff and do other heavy work by hand. I almost never use gloves either (except for very wet and dirty, oily or cold work during winter). This have had no effect when it comes to work with elecronics as a hobby. I was really at my worst at soldering, before I started working out and then have just gotten better over the years with practice. I have never done this level of precision work though - but hand soldered a lot of SMD components - even IC-circuits with many legs, mostly onto adapter cards for use on perf boards. It may be different if you have injuries though.
Btw. I think the biggest problem why many people get bad injuries while working, is that they start doing heavy work without any previous workout. In that case it's very easy to get a small injury, that will then have a hard tome to heal, as there is very little room to ease up the work load temporarely. Most of us working out have at some point gotten small injuries as well (where a muscle or joint just hurts), but when easing up the load (in most cases just lower the weights and do more reps) it will heal and it's usually no big deal. Some (not so smart) people don't do that and just continue their workouts as nothing has happend - which usually end up bad as well. Then they often blame it on age that they can't lift heavy any more.
Injuries that never get a chance to heal will just get worse and worse over time and become persistant.
Now if you have a work where you have to use a big percentage of your strength to just to be able to meet the minimum requirements to be able to do it at all, you have a problem - but if you are strong enough that the minimum requirements is well below your capacity, there is usually room to temporary ease up the load there too (by for example carry less and walk more times instead). Sometimes, you can just ease up the load by standing in a different position or use different grips as well. But now, that's a different discussion.
Totally agree here. From video it looks really easy :D I was once repairing two flex cables 0.05 traces and it spend on it almost 6h. Succeeded only on 4th attempt when I made the tools for it first (had to extend my soldering station tip with copper wire from LAN wire and grind it to pointy tip) :D
So hat off here! ;)
Want to try reballing but does not have bottom heating yet only atten hot-air station.
This is gpu repair level over 9000. Just amazing knowledge.
how many people you think will try and fail then cry that it does not work because of their incompetence?
@@raven4k998 if people have all these tools, including a microscope, I don't think they are that incompetent
@@rusername one can have all the tools in the world but still unable to do this but this guy definitely can because of his competence. he is an absolute repair god. i think that is the point raven is trying to make.
repair cost will be over 9000
@@albertwesker4266 that's why i would just get a new gpu at that point🤣🤣
Unfortunately some repair guys treat GPUs according to their brand, you see them bitching about one brand hopping to get sponsored by the other brand.
Kris treats GPUs as electronics, he treats them with passion. This was an absolute surgery 👍
Thank you
Yeah, a certain CZcamsr springs to mind with his "Don't buy AMD" comment with the convex GPU die sample of one when Nvidia engineers already explained why GPUs are made like that 😉
Yup northwestrepair is guilty of it, I think with his complaints he won't get any business from me.
@@shadowopsairman1583 Indeed, he is the Jayztowcents v 2.0 😂 and he gets nothing from me either.
"Hopping"?
This repair is insane. I have repaired PCB's for a manufacturing company and found many flaws in designs. Its tedious work, often resulting in a solution like this that is deemed too costly to repair solely because of the necessity of the skill level of the employee needed doing the repair. Much respect brother.
Actually that's pretty crazy 😂 I used to work as a PCB designer and knowing how tight the spacing between the via and the internal power layers is, the hand drill method is awesome. There is so much precision required not to mess this up and smear copper from one layer to another is just bonkers. Also what's required for RAM to work properly is that the traces are all within a certain length to match the timing. Of course there is some training ongoing but this only works in a small margin of error, so running the wired connection in the exact path above the broken internal trace is probably the best option. I wonder though where you get the information about where to dig for the internal trace? Do you have access to the layout/Gerber files for this board or are you just stripping down the card layer by layer and take photos of it? Usually companies only share their Layout data only with PCB manufacturer to prevent others from having a easy time to reverse engineer their products?
Thank you for commenting. I saw the CAD files. It is very important to keep the same length.
@@KrisFixGermany Where did you find them? Finding board views for MSI laptops is a pain..
@@tiagoangelo3828 Vinafix perhaps?
This is an insane amount of diagnostic and repair skills. Hats off to you! I can't even imagine where to begin to diagnose traces which are levels deep into the PCB and furthermore figure out the routes they go in the board. Amazing and thanks for sharing!
Maybe he has a diagram of the board? How else would you know this?
@@WetPig I guess you could run a small current through the trace and use an IR camera to see where the PCB heats up?
@@Mike-oz4cv You could, but that means that you have an uninterrupted circuit, I believe? Which wasn't the case here.
@@Mike-oz4cv I don't think that would work, because usually those high-frequency signal lanes are sandwiched inbetween ground layers to help maintain a constant impedance & avoid cross-talk from other lanes. But I'd love to see someone try the method you came up with, maybe some of the heat would transfer through the layers? Maybe you could even measure where the PCB getting thicker due to copper trace expanding inside from the heat.
@@Mike-oz4cv I also just realized that heating the singular trace wouldn't probably tell you if there are any other traces in the place you are grinding the PCB to get to the trace, so it's nearly impossible to diagnose this without the CAD files or maybe a very precise X-ray scanner.
I've seen 0.02mm trace repairs before, I've never seen a 13/16 layer via repair with a hand drill!!! That's insane accuracy to not damage or cause a short on the other pads or layers. Massive respect for this handiwork!
A finger drill*
No more videos?
You know you have the steadiest hands in the world when you consider yourself more precise and accurate than a machine. Incredible work as always Kris.
Wow. Just wow.
Louis Rossmann from Germany. The knowledge and steady hand with that thin wire and drill is some cyborg skill level.
Insane attention to details for the customer and, for the viewers as well.
Liked, commented and subscribed!
Rossmann uses more flux 🙃
@@sp00n You guys are both at the skill and knowledge level where it's as much art as science. And art involves stylistic preferences.
and jessas solder wick =) @@sp00n
@@sp00n When you have skill,you don't need the Xtra !! I'm a retired EE from ago,and his skill is Top Self on that iron. A TS100 might do well too ! What i use now,and it's like Gods Tools compared to the OLD $#!T I use to use !
I have not seen this before . Thank you . I believe your the most advanced tech that is public . Amazing skills brother !
Wow, this is just a crazy level of repair. Probably the best gpu repair tech on youtube!
probably (?)
i mean it can't be better 🧐
It is nice to see someone who has access to the PCB schematics ;) But as impressive as this repair is, again I think this is a case where the GPU core and all the other components are good, so it might be more economical to use such cards as donor boards.
Is it more economical to grab a donor board? Probably so, but man this is the best advertisement of this GPU repair shop I've seen, and I've had a chance to design PCBs like the one you have here.
Amazing work.
Never thought to drill broken vias.
Drilling bad vias works as long as nothing is in the way. Luckily no trace or component (opposing side of PCB) in the line of fire. Being the chipset, there shouldn't be anything in the PCB layers (under chipset) for obvious reasons. Could you imagine reverse engineering the PCB to find that trace path manually? This is why documentation is so critical.
Many people slagging you off in these comments 😮😮
Kris, a GPU Wizard proven again... keep up this great work man.
From one tech to another, this is great stuff buddy! Seeing your workstation equipment makes me feel an upgrade is in order :D I think this kind of work would be much more enjoyable, pcbs are small, voltages are low, no risk of 400Vdc mosfet explosion in your face like with the amplifiers I repair :/ and probably can charge a fair amount too given the value of these. I wonder if a collab of some kind would be fun, swap repairs for a day or something 😂 Keep up the great work!
I would definitely have a hard time in a different environment
Well i see both work from you and him.
And its great to see it.
Wel last time i had to fix A.I.S systeem .
Poor man broke the connector.
So i do wire repair direct to the motherboard.
With yes a solder iron on lighter gas.
With not that great of a tip to do so
Well its works great and he is happy.
This was an amazing fix, as a repair technician myself who's getting into SMD soldering, this is the level i strive for, the confidence you have in your repairs is phenomenal and makes the video even more enjoyable.
Amazing content once again. Your knowledge and skill really is on another level.
In my entire life of 33 years, i don't think i have met or seen someone as professional as you are. You have a very trustworthy and professional vibe, to the point where if you told me you can do open heart surgery, i would let you do it. Love your videos
This is genuinely an insane level of repair.
Incredible Skill and talent as always!
your work is SO much more specialized than anything I will EVER hope to do and yet I'm just transfixed for entire episodes
By sharing the ram nomenclature with us shows that you are a man of strong character. Hats off.
Yeah u still need skill to find error and execute said repair if possible. So yeah there is that...
Isn't impedance and length matching a problem here?
Usually high speed buses like DRAM to controller have very small tolerances for length deviations between the bus lines. I'm surprised that such a solution works without occasional R/W errors. Didn't expect that.
Impressive skills, kudos!
Since he's basically following the old broken trace, the length and angle is close to original one. Bigger issue would be signal integrity from possible interference but oh well, it's a difference between dead card/card with disabled whole memory bank and execution block that's attached to it vs a working card but with not as pristine looking signal window under an oscilloscope view. I would take the later over the former any time of a day.
Probably not a good GPU to overclock anymore no, but it works again.
The goal is to keep the path and the length of the trace
@@KrisFixGermany But the trace impedance will be nowhere near the usual 50R single ended I suppose. But anywhere, just how someone wrote it's the choice between a dead and a working card. And obviously a good job has been done.
It might be a Command/Address line which might be a little less "on the edge" when it comes to signal integrity
I enjoy that you share the process by which you can repair the "unrepairable". You keep expensive hardware out of the landfill, and freely share your technique with others! Good on you.
Excellent work! I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone do a full via drill-out and wire re-route under a dense BGA like this.
Total respect my friend. you have the most steady hands I've seen is this type of work.
6 days later and I’m still absorbing what is truly going on here. Everyone can see the impressive precision, and it is truly a feat to be seen… but there is so many small details at play here, invisible to most, that truly leave me mind blown - and yet you make it appear so easy and effortless. The master of all masters.
Vias are actually hollow, but they appear filled in because the soldermask enters the vias when the board is coated. If you have a fine enough needle, you can poke through the solder mask on each side of a via and then feed a wire directly through the via instead of drilling the entire via. The other option is a single drop of concentrated sulfuric acid to dissolve the solder mask. In this particular board, you tested continuity to the underside of the via you drilled out. Therefore, if you got solder or wire through the center of the via, the connection would have been repaired, and you wouldn't need to scrape the board or run a wire.
A newbie questions - if its hollow, what makes the initial connection what the via is for?
@@BerlinAnonymous The walls of the Via are plated with copper forming a tiny tube of copper through the board.
@@BerlinAnonymous Vias are formed the same way through holes are formed, the only difference is the size of the drill bit used.
You are going above and beyond Kris!!! I could never attempt a repair like this myself. Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing the knowlege!!!
We're not worthy of this man's greatness! Damn, I have never seen a repair like that. Its awesome that these cards are being repaired and not just discarded. Great job as always and really great video!
I feel like holding the drill on top of the gpu chip was a bit misleading, but I still really enjoyed this video, I can't believe the knowledge and the stakes that are involved in these repairs sometimes. It makes me laugh at myself soldering 12mm wires together for a welder
The sorts of specialized tools, methods, and materials he's using for inspection, testing, solder/desolder, reflow, rework, reball didn't really exist a few decades back. At least not outside of places like NASA and MIT. This sort of repair would be impossible, or expensive enough to be impractical (ignoring the fact that manufacturing such a dense multi-layer PCB would be impossible, too).
So maybe in the next few decades we'll see experts who are able to perform surgery inside the package or even on the silicon itself.
This is insane. I never would have expected this level of repair.
I love watching these repairs. Thank you for posting.
Amazing work. Thank you for showing your solutions to diffrent faults. This one was exeptional and very diffrent from any other repair video I seen in years.
Very Good Job Kriss , well done your are really a great professional. Look forward to see more video's.
He's like, this is everyday job, no biggy, just drilling microscopic hole and wiring up with the world's tiny wire, no biggy ship it back to the customer 😂
*15:00** It is unlikely I will ever use this info in my industry...*
*and yet I watch every video start to end.*
Fascinating stuff.
Amazing work man!!
Even though I'm on the other side of the ocean in a third world country where nowadays it's almost impossible to buy a card like this, let alone to have someone to repair it, I'm always facinated to watch your videos.
And, you explaining the banks order will definetly help other repairers to properly locate the banks, a real gentleman.
Absolutely the best micro soldering/repair channel around. Really incredible stuff.
Wow, thanks!
12:32 The way he curled up the wire onto the pad!!! 😭😭😭
Your videos are insane! Lots of respect for your work ✊✊
Total respect for carrying out repairs and your knowledge at this level!
nice job ;) probably it would be worth trying to drill the via with a 0.1 or 0.15 mm first and probably get lucky with a wire needed only between the top and bottom of the via. if not enough then do the more complex job as you did.
Yes, this is a much easier solution. The problem is that one such drill costs 30+ euros. Anything under 0.4mm breaks very easily.
@@KrisFixGermany ... ja richtig .. aber du könntest einen "Drill Stand" benutzen , da gäbe es weniger Probleme mit dem verzug des "Drillbits"... der sollte dann vernünftig zu bohren sein.
@@KrisFixGermany yes they do break easily :) i'm using the proxxon MF70 micro mill when drilling such small diameters.
Amazing! As an electrician its so cool to see a similar work but on such a microscopic scale. You are rearranging atoms my friend
Subbed excellent work !
Love watching your repair videos. I’m someone who has been working in tech for a long time and mostly German brands so there are high standards and can always appreciate real craftsmanship.
In an alternate timeline Kris is a very skillful neurosurgeon.
I prefer this one. Considering the state of many people's brains, they'd be discarded as unfixable 🤣😋
@@Arsenic71 Nah, he'd just drill a couple of holes and reconnect some neural nerves, and it'd all be good again. 🤣
Man, i miss your vids, hope you are doing good in life !.
Subbed! That was freaking INSANE! Thank you for sharing!
Wow Kris, I am glad to meet the second person I have seen to even attempt this. Outstanding work. My dad was the first person I saw on your level. When I was a kid 50 years ago, my dad etched and hand drilled his own PCB's, then assembled some awesome stuff like a complete color TV, digital alarm clock and analog door lock boards, just to name a few. He was a Toll Test Tech for what is now AT&T. I have subscribed because you impressed me even more than NorthridgeFix does.
Ich bin immer wieder erstaunt was Kris alles repariert bekommt.. mein größten Respekt vor deiner Arbeit.. Trotzdem hoffe ich, das ich nie deine Dienste in Anspruch nehmen muss :D
The nozzle a lot of 3D printers use is .4mm hole diameter which is amazingly tiny, so to see how huge that drill bit is compared to those vias is just a mind blower.
Dude, I watched a lot of repair stuff but this is way above, get´s the cake. Good Job, Mate!
this was my first time ever seeing a repair like this, that was crazy! awesome job! never knew something like this was possible
Incredible work!
The knowledge you have about these cards is just astonishing.
Great stuff man, love the video.
Excellent explaining your whole troubleshooting process. Really interesting to hear. Thank you
Hello @KrisFix-Germany, i would have imagined you would need to cut after the spot where you attached the wire to the existing trace, to avoid signal integrity issues. I mean, now you have left in place the "dead end" Signal line which acts as a capacitor on the signal. Hope you understand what i mean :) otherwise, insane Repair skill :)
No hair jokes? You'll literally tear your hair out when trying to solve this "level 932" problem.
That's functional, for efficient thermal dissipation from mega calculations going on in his head.
@@peterlarkin762 You're right. The hair is just the first step towards mounting an array of donor board coolers on his head.
Great job as always.. Thanks again for sharing with all of us..
I really enjoyed watching you work, thank you 😀
15:28 DUN
ahahhahaha
You are an artist. It’s incredibly interesting and entertaining to watch you fix these seemingly impossible issues. Thanks for the great content!
Great job. Its nice to see such experienced people
never seen anything like that. you are awesome and insane at the same time. wish more people treat electronics like you. keep up the great work.
komme selbst aus der "PCB" Szene .. (CAM-Operator PCB) daher "Hut ab" vor solch einer Reperatur !!! alleine das wissen , wo man öffnen muss um auf einem 16 Lagen Board die richtige "Trace" zu finden ... grisser Respekt ... und danke für Dein Video
This is next level stuff bro 😎
I really appreciate work like this and people who fix things instead of throwing them to waste, very nice work. Thanks for awesome content!
Wow! Amazing video!
Keep up the good work!
Subbed✅
Impressive skills. The daddy of all graphics card repairs 😂
Where are you kirs!?
Miss you
Component level repair like this is a rare art. Did a very similar repair on a 30k high speed camera a while back. Same issue with it, bad via to data line. Caused the processor to hang.
Well holy shit, just when I thought I'd seen the craziest repairs you drop one that tops them all o.o
This is perhaps the only channel where the term "professional" isn't an overblown marketing gimmick but instead a verifiable fact.
great work
Thanks!
0.4mm drill is tiny, yet sooo big compared to all the stuff on the PCB
0.4mm seems almost oversized here.
0.15mm or so drill to the center of the via would keep the via and traces intact?
0.4mm works good for me
Pretty crazy man! Very impressive! Well done!
Amazing work! Thanks for video. Wunderbar.
Awesome finding!
And also very sad issue, either MSI screwed up and put too small rings around this via signal or AMD dictates the usage of poor quality PCB manufacturer. This brownish color is usually an indication of FR2 board which are made out of paper resin instead or glass fiber resin (FR4). They are much more prone to stresses, moisture and other environment factors.
Isn't the dielectric constant also an issue with FR2? I find it hard to believe they would actually use an FR2-based laminate in what is effectively their high-end card
This is not FR2, even FR4 would likely have too much signal degradation for high-speed GDDR6 or PCI-E 4 or 5.
If the trace is ok, would it be also possible to create a new via? I mean drilling an even smaller hole and then insert a bit bigger copper sleeve (Kupferhülse) to ensure contact?
Too complicated
I think the problem is that you'd have to connect to the wire in the middle of the board where the trace is, since the via is defective. To expose that trace you need some space around it, which you don't have at the via embedded in the BGA connection area.
@@gblargg I meant to drill out the defective via and insert a new via, then one would not need a new trace since the original trace is still in good condition, only via is defective.
@@klaus.luppert Apparently it's an involved process requiring removal of epoxy and electroplating the via.
This is madness! Thanks for showing us all this and great job!
first repair like this when i see someone grinding into deep layers, amazing work
That's not a joke, but you need definitely the schematica of the board and a previous experience on donor cards. 😊
How hard was it to figure this out? Was it "just" by randomly grinding a donor board?
Boardview
thank you Kris. excellent job
Love what you do, thanks for calmly explaining
but how about drilling 0.15mm hole and dumping the 0.02mm wire in there with a solder. The via outer ring would survive. It would seem it would fix the problem without any additional work? Just wondering.
Yeah, that would be great. I've tried it already. The problem is that a drill like this costs 30+ euros and anything under 0.4mm breaks very quickly.
@@KrisFixGermany Right you are. It would never work using your hands only. It needs small but low runout pcb drillpress. High speed rotation will drill quite well as it takes off only tiny amount of material every rotation. Really crazy that you know that there is this line present in the card and you can dig there without making irreversible damage to other lines. Nice work.
this is by far the most complex and dangerous repair to do: even slightly tilting the drill at a wrong angle and you're causing shorts to different lanes/wiers right beneath the GPU
Great repair, love you videos❤
amazing work buddy really impressed with all ur videos
Is there an option where you can just disable the defect ram and end up with downgraded gpu with lesser ram but still works?
not for me
@@KrisFixGermany is it possible?
good work man keep it up
bro is on an astronomical level, so impressive my guy!! glad i found ur channel
This proccess is on a surgeon level for electronics, every video I watch from you keeps justifying the repair prices, kudos to you! As an electronics engineer I could only dream to do a job this fun
As usual KrisFix is on another level of repair. This is amazing, you say you know where that trace runs from experience but do you mean you have studied the layer-by-layer layout of this specific board or have you dug around before to find it? it just seems like you'd be searching for a needle in a 13 layer haystack!
This is not some lazy wednesday's C64 repair, but something completely out of this world! :o
Impressive work! Great job!!
Is it April 1st again?! :D
Nope 😉