When Furniture Row Racing folded basically a year after Truex dominated the season and won the championship is when I began to realize there was a problem.
The days of building a race car and going racing has been over for 20 years racing is such an expensive sport to get into that its preventing the sport from growing thats why we're stuck with these young awkward kids with no personality as the drivers their parents check book got them there the days of the good Ole boys has been over for along time
I feel like all the top pro racing organizations are pricing themselves out of business. It started with multi car teams in nascar and drag racing. Eventually what you end up with is a handful of owners who control the whole field. Outsiders have been priced out of the game. It's a tough situation.
Everyone wants to compare the charter system to NFL franchises. The major difference is each owner can only own one team. Everyone has equal stake in the NFL business. And the owners vote to decide who can buy a team that is for sale. If teams like Hendrick, Gibbs and Penske want the charters to be permanent, and them own the charters, then they need to scale down to at least only two teams, so that there are charters available. If not, there will be only a few owners that control all the charters of NASCAR.
Comparing NASCAR to the NFL/team ball sports is what started it's downfall and has been the or at least a cause of it continuing to go down for 21 years without interruption
I do think Charters have ruined NASCAR. The whole purpose of the charters is to guarantee a spot in the race. You go to any short track, and you are not guaranteed a spot in the main event if you don't qualify for it. The sponsors also pushed for this because they didn't like their car they sponsored to miss the race. Well, too bad that is life. I believe this all started when one of the major teams missed Daytona or one of the big races. Get rid of the Charters.
"Too bad that is life"? Easy to say when you're sitting at home in your chair and aren't the one relying on sponsor money. Those sponsors get the last laugh when they leave the sport and refuse to sponsor another car. And then what?
I would suggest that NASCAR will "elite" itself into being replaced by a more fun, easier to access series! They continue bring rich kids to big teams and people lose interest. Look how packed N. Wilkesboro was when Dale Jr., BK, Harvick and Chastain raced the cars tour. Add some bigger tracks to the schedule, get some big name drivers and I'd watch it over the cup race any day!
What bigger track is the CARS Tour supposed to add? The series doesn't even travel to Florida or to Nashville for logistical reasons. Plus - Dale, Harvick, Burton and Marks wouldn't put late model stocks on a track like Charlotte. It's just way too risky. And besides all of that, there are only 4 active tracks that are at least a mile long that aren't owned by NASCAR or SMI, and those two companies operate a lot more cooperatively today than 25 years ago. Those tracks are Indianapolis, Pocono, Milwaukee and Gateway. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but that "more fun, easier to access" series isn't coming. NASCAR has positioned itself perfectly, which is unfortunate for many of us. Us diehards aren't strong enough in numbers to tip the scales. Tastes have to change amongst the general public away from superspeedways and road courses, and towards short tracks. If the casual crowd was actively seeking out short tracks, then NASCAR might get threatened, but until then we're stuck. I agree though, NASCAR has gotten too big for its britches
Having 36 corporate provisionals for every race, with non-charter teams totally screwed on the purse payout, has indeed ruined NASCAR. And it will only get worse in the future as everything ends up in the hands of a few super teams (because you know 4 per teams isn’t enough, eventually, as the power dynamic shifts, the owners will argue they need five or six charters, each) or else they’ll skit the limit, as they’re already starting to do now, with “affiliate” teams that are separately-owned in name only. So, if you think “team orders” makes for dull NASCAR now, just you wait until there’s basically four teams left standing.
Ha! That discussion about charter values is similar to me and my wife’s recent discussion. She asked why I have so many firearms? I thought to myself, I better think of something to tell her so she doesn’t give me a bunch of cráp about having a lot of guns. So I say, they’re an investment. Their value just keeps increasing. She says to me, Are you gonna sell them? I said, No! She said then they aren’t worth anything! 👀
Some of reason for having charters is being able to get some type of return on having a race team. Most of the time in the past when race teams shut down, they were just selling off equipment and property, sometimes for pennies of a dollar.
If they want to keep the charter system going and I want to attract a fourth manufacturer they need to raise the starting positions back to 43 or even 44 and have 40 charters. That would allow the fourth manufacturer to have enough teams guaranteed and allow teams to enter part time cars.
Yes , but that not to say someone will always pay 40 million dollars for a business and that's not counting cars , haulers , equipment etc that is loosing money
I think a lot of the value is in the kinds of sponsor relations that an owner or team is able to create. Some of the most successful race car drivers and teams have been the ones who can create a loyal following. The fans buy the products or at least buy into the marketing, and become part of something that they want to be part of. The owners, teams, and drivers that do the best job of blending on track performance, with off track personality, are the ones who succeed no matter how many championships they have. It is critical for NASCAR to continue to offer opportunities and benefits to sponsors of multiple levels of purchasing power to get involved in the sport. This is what fueled the growth in the 1990’s-2010’s. Brian France trying to turn NASCAR into a mirror image of the NFL is what almost killed NASCAR. Learn a lesson, and do what you do already, just a little bit better everyday.
NASCAR exists first and foremost for the benefit of the France family. Secondly the France family will probably never concede to negotiating directly with any entity representing the teams that even smells like it could be remotely related to a union type of organization. Everything else is a tertiary consideration. The best thing for the sport would be for the France family to cash in and then get out.
NASCAR has to figure out a way to get 50 to 60 cars back at Daytona. Make the 125's mean something. I know they added points but still. And a min of 40 cars.
This is RACING, right? Get rid of the charters, if you are confident enough to show up at a race track do it. NASCAR, buy all the charters back and get back to qualify to get in. I get it. It takes a lot of money to get these guys there. If you are fast enough on Saturday, you start Sunday. If not, back to the drawing board. That is RACING!
As an outsider and having participated in different forms of motorsport in different countries, I see the cost of a charter as one of two things. Its a cost to participate and has to be recovered from prize money and sponsorships just like the cost of the car, technicians and drivers. Or its seen as a privileged position that can be traded and thats bad. This is where a governing body should come in and in every other form of road based motorsport, the governing body is the FIM or FIA and they are the rules makers and they have no commercial connection to the money side of the teams. So they can make decisions based on the good of the sport, the safety, the drivers and the fans. Not so with Nascar. It always was about Nascar making money from races and teams. I see that as a basic conflict of interest. There always has to be an opportunity to race on an equal footing against big teams. You can't have a closed club of three or four multi team owners and they and Nascar taking all the goodies at the expense of everyone else, otherwise new entrants will be discouraged and the sport will die. Only an independent, non commercial governing body can make sure the opportunities continue to be available without shelling out $40m just to race. Some of the greatest innovators and skilled engineers in Nascar came from being engine builders, mechanics and drivers who were also fabricators. The likes of Yates etc would never have been discovered if it was like it is now but back when they were starting out. Its the Childress, Roush, Hendrick cabal that have hijacted the sport to serve themselves and their co-conspirators at Nascar.
It needs to go back to the days of build a car and go. It was way more enjoyable for the fans back then and there were more asses in the grand stands at that time.
I don’t think that you can talk about MLB or NFL as a comparison because in all other leagues the league is the owners, or at the very least the leagues work for the owners.
The big money in the 90s ruined it. The days of someone building a legal car to try making the show are gone. It takes millions of dollars in equipment to build a car to pass inspection. The stars were mostly an everyman into the early 00s, then we started getting drivers who got their ride because daddy could sponsor the car. Hendrick was one of the leaders in the early spending of cubic dollars, I can't say I feel bad that they lose money racing.
It’s would be nice to talk to Shaq on what he did to get where he’s at now. The things he invested in and maybe that would work in nascar. A different outlook on things.
What goes up must come down and these charters are no deferent. Who would have thought 20 years ago that in 2014 a New York City taxi license would cost a million dollars. Now one can be had for less than half that amount. Same with NBA franchises who's values are in a decline.
Can’t you make your company public and let the fans buy shares of your race company. Then borrow against your company to get a charter supported by your fans
I'm on my last leg with Nascar the fact that I have to pay to watch on all the different platforms I'm over it last year I only got to watch a few races so same thing this year I'm going to be done with it and it upsets me
My hot take is charters should be a thing but team sizs should be limited. I don't make a baseball team then demand to play the Yankees. Imagine Elliot not qualifying for a race, and instead Henry McGuire makes it instead, everyone loses. This almost happened to Dale Jr. and was the start of charter discussions. Teams shouldn't have 4 drivers the Maximum should be 2 maybe 3.
The owners did it to themselves. They wined about the start and parks coming in and beating them out in qualifying, and now they are handcuffed by this crappy charter system.
@@buckman840Prior to the charter system the top 35 in owners points were guaranteed starting spots in a race while the remaining spots went to the highest qualifiers, then a past champion provisional. It was that way for many years prior to the charter system and now we have 36 chartered teams guaranteed spots and we only start 40 now instead of the traditional 43.
Everything NA$CAR does, can be done by hiring a "commissioner" that works for the teams. If a new guy wants to race, he can buy an expansion team from the current team owners. NASCAR has proven to me that all they really care about is their bottom line. The league should be owned by the teams and teams should be the real stakeholders. If you started over in 2024, you wouldn't let an outside entity have the most power, especially not power that makes a $40M investment disappear on the whim of some guys named France. On the other hand, just building a car and going big time racing, isn't a viable way for a big time sport to operate.
You asked the wrong question. Why do the teams need NASCAR? That is the question. In the 50's NASCAR was needed to ensure the drivers got paid by the tracks after the race. NASCAR became the promoter instead of the track. They collected the gate and concession sales and had all of the money. Just like football teams don't need a promotor to ensure a stadium pays the players, race teams no longer need a middleman like NASCAR because the real money isn't in the gate or concessions, it is in the TV deal. Everything NASCAR does could be done by a commissioner that is hired and answers to the teams.@@johnhaas2523
In the NHRA you can get a rulebook and build a car and you have to qualify to make the show unless the field isn't full for your class...I have never seen a Nascar rulebook.....I quit following Nascar when Toyota came in....
43 car fields and if you don't qualify you go home. You shouldn't be guaranteed your spot. This is what's killing the sport from growing, as well as nascar not sharing the TV money.
Talking about two guys tip toe thru a subject was almost painful to watch Dale Jr claim to have no dog in the fight and Ray business partner Rob Kaufman who help start the charter system, the fans who say they hate the charter can go after those folks NASCAR would been happy to never touch the charter it the team owners who demand it and that why charters not going away.
NASCAR has done everything in their power to be as much like the four major leagues as they can, except one. MLB, NFL, NHL and NBA have one thing in common that NASCAR doesn't. The league is owned by the teams. The commissioner represents the owners. NASCAR represents NASCAR and only NASCAR. Permanent charters is barely a small step in the right direction.
@@frankfarms83 Does that change ANYTHING I said? No matter what you feel about the direction of the sport, none of what I said is untrue. IF NASCAR is going to have a charter system, they should be permanent. IF NASCAR wants to go back to 1980, charters will go away, and ALL the teams will go away with them.
What nascars argument for getting rid of them? The teams have a good reasons. Now they have something of value when they close up shop, in the past it was just the building and the contents.
You can lose a charter if you don't meet the performance requirement in the charter agreement as in like NASCAR doesn't want somebody let's say like BJ McCloud to have a charter and not even try hard
You had Gordom on that had a Dr t-Rex car saying hey we were pretty popular back then then looking around going I don't know what happened. You had a driver ride a wall to gain position and went viral then immediately banned it. You can't look at indy car and compare to NASCAR it's like comparing fans of soccer snd football. NASCAR has strangled themselves with regulations leaving races to be decided on extremely small variables that a viewer can't see nor will bring in new viewers. Why is football popular because anything can happen blown coverages that can be explained over tv. Let the teams race, let ingenuity prevail and explain to the viewer.Nascar is vanilla and behinds too much on tv contracts for money and left racing awhile ago.
@lawrencefranck9417 not really. All other sports leagues the owners employs, hires, or fire their commissioner. France family makes all the rules. The charter is supposed to be like a franchise but nascar Corp wants to cancel them all from the sounds of it.
Day to NA 2024 If I had entry I could have Won before stage 3. Why? Percentages I pull the trump. The fast guys would recognize and it would be a war of attrition and attention Paid in weeks prior. 5years running.
The charter system is both a blessing and a curse. Charter are the reason why we have all these new owners, as before if you were the set up a race team and it din't work out at the end you had nothing to sell other a few bits of used machinery and some used cars with the charter there is always something of value that can be sold if a race team closes down so that limited people getting involved to simply those with a knowledge of racing. But on the flip side that guaranteed money is enticing owners who are millionaires that would once want to buy major league sports teams but simply can't afford them as the value of them has increased to such a point that even millionaires can't afford them and NASCAR is potentially new rich guy playground and this is in turn creating a self fulfilling prophesy driving the charter price up and pushing out those people who are "pure racers". Personally I think the charter system is good as it encourages investment but there needs to be changes to system (especially prize money) so it is viable to be an open team again so those that just want to build a car and race can do without having to foot the bill out of their own pocket. Plus if they get a 4th manufacturer it will need major changes and likely have to go back 43-45 cars with 38-40 charters.
No one wants to hear this but there's only one way to get things back like 'the old days' and before I say it, NO. It will NEVER happen. Let's face it. The thing everyone hates the most is that NASCAR isn't the "Every-man's Sport' it used to be. You'd have to kill off the Cup Series as we know it, make the Xfinity car the top car and streamline the sport down to one Car series, and one Truck series. Like any good business, you'd eliminate a redundancy... Call it Xfinity Cup for all I care. Put a $10 mil. budget cap on all teams to keep costs low, Current Xfinity teams could participate because that's the current spending of top teams in the series. You'd have 60-70 cars theoretically (probably more like 55 in reality). The problem is convincing TV Networks, sponsor partners etc. that it would work and convincing Cup owners that down-scaling their entire operation is good for them in the long run. The whole sport would have to be willing to not be greedy and be willing to downsize in a BIG WAY, and as we all know once you open Pandora's box, there's NO turning back. Or you can do what I do. Pay very vague attention to NASCAR because that's all it's worth to me as a fan who wants that old school feel to the racing, and WATCH CARS TOUR ON FLO RACING... Because that's NASCAR about 25-30 years ago!
Atlanta racing is good because car is running within power with drafting. At Daytona its opposites in racing quality. No draft the lead car cant pull a lead leads to stagnation sxs racing with a draft
The Little Guy can’t compete anymore like they could even 20 years ago! Nascar gas priced its way out of mainstream sports! Fans are not showing up on a regular basis!
Charters are stupid, the dumbass final 4 race is stupid, anyone who is bad at Phoenix can never win a title. The new car has a aero push so bad it makes passing too hard at most tracks and now they're talking about running v6 turbo charged hybrids so Honda can get in the sport. I guess their new fan targets are foreigners, must think they're gonna go international like F1. Oh yeah, let's add more damn road courses.
What Dale said was correct. You had your chance to buy in for a couple million and didn’t, now its $40 Million. Worst financial decision of your Career. Unfortunately you can’t turn back time. In 30 years a charter could be worth $500 million or billions.
I thought it was more interesting when anyone could show up to the track and try and qualify. As long as the driver was approved of course.
Allot better then.
That started going away in the early 2000s
It's still that way for the Indy 500, though we'll see how long that lasts.
Wasnt long ago where 50 cars would show up to qualify for 43 positions...
I 100% agree, nothing should be a given. This is one thing that pisses me off about NASCAR.
When Furniture Row Racing folded basically a year after Truex dominated the season and won the championship is when I began to realize there was a problem.
The days of building a race car and going racing has been over for 20 years racing is such an expensive sport to get into that its preventing the sport from growing thats why we're stuck with these young awkward kids with no personality as the drivers their parents check book got them there the days of the good Ole boys has been over for along time
A lot longer than that.
We rightfully crap on F1 for denying Andretti, but the NASCAR charter is system is almost just as bad.
Say it louder for the people in the back, lol
chase for the cup....lmfao
Nascar and Indycar were both better when the rules allowed for innovation and the grid was open to anyone with a car to qualify.
I feel like all the top pro racing organizations are pricing themselves out of business. It started with multi car teams in nascar and drag racing. Eventually what you end up with is a handful of owners who control the whole field. Outsiders have been priced out of the game. It's a tough situation.
I miss the days of the single car teams. I love routing for the little guy (underdog)!
Ricky Stenhouse Jr. winning the 500 was dope.
Team uses Hendrick engine and chassis, not so dope.
Everyone wants to compare the charter system to NFL franchises. The major difference is each owner can only own one team. Everyone has equal stake in the NFL business. And the owners vote to decide who can buy a team that is for sale. If teams like Hendrick, Gibbs and Penske want the charters to be permanent, and them own the charters, then they need to scale down to at least only two teams, so that there are charters available. If not, there will be only a few owners that control all the charters of NASCAR.
Comparing NASCAR to the NFL/team ball sports is what started it's downfall and has been the or at least a cause of it continuing to go down for 21 years without interruption
I do think Charters have ruined NASCAR. The whole purpose of the charters is to guarantee a spot in the race. You go to any short track, and you are not guaranteed a spot in the main event if you don't qualify for it. The sponsors also pushed for this because they didn't like their car they sponsored to miss the race. Well, too bad that is life. I believe this all started when one of the major teams missed Daytona or one of the big races. Get rid of the Charters.
Top 35 rule was the precursor to charters, but back then you had more than 43 cars show up and cars still failed to qualify.
"Too bad that is life"? Easy to say when you're sitting at home in your chair and aren't the one relying on sponsor money. Those sponsors get the last laugh when they leave the sport and refuse to sponsor another car. And then what?
Just Motorsports in general. It is really tough for us Average Joes to do much anymore
When they took the backyard garage and the local racer out of it they took the fun away also.
💯👍👍
I would suggest that NASCAR will "elite" itself into being replaced by a more fun, easier to access series! They continue bring rich kids to big teams and people lose interest. Look how packed N. Wilkesboro was when Dale Jr., BK, Harvick and Chastain raced the cars tour. Add some bigger tracks to the schedule, get some big name drivers and I'd watch it over the cup race any day!
What bigger track is the CARS Tour supposed to add? The series doesn't even travel to Florida or to Nashville for logistical reasons. Plus - Dale, Harvick, Burton and Marks wouldn't put late model stocks on a track like Charlotte. It's just way too risky. And besides all of that, there are only 4 active tracks that are at least a mile long that aren't owned by NASCAR or SMI, and those two companies operate a lot more cooperatively today than 25 years ago. Those tracks are Indianapolis, Pocono, Milwaukee and Gateway. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but that "more fun, easier to access" series isn't coming. NASCAR has positioned itself perfectly, which is unfortunate for many of us. Us diehards aren't strong enough in numbers to tip the scales. Tastes have to change amongst the general public away from superspeedways and road courses, and towards short tracks. If the casual crowd was actively seeking out short tracks, then NASCAR might get threatened, but until then we're stuck. I agree though, NASCAR has gotten too big for its britches
Having 36 corporate provisionals for every race, with non-charter teams totally screwed on the purse payout, has indeed ruined NASCAR. And it will only get worse in the future as everything ends up in the hands of a few super teams (because you know 4 per teams isn’t enough, eventually, as the power dynamic shifts, the owners will argue they need five or six charters, each) or else they’ll skit the limit, as they’re already starting to do now, with “affiliate” teams that are separately-owned in name only.
So, if you think “team orders” makes for dull NASCAR now, just you wait until there’s basically four teams left standing.
Ha! That discussion about charter values is similar to me and my wife’s recent discussion. She asked why I have so many firearms? I thought to myself, I better think of something to tell her so she doesn’t give me a bunch of cráp about having a lot of guns. So I say, they’re an investment. Their value just keeps increasing. She says to me, Are you gonna sell them? I said, No! She said then they aren’t worth anything! 👀
Your wife made a good point. But. If you go before her. She’ll make $$ on them. 🤷♂️
Don't worry, the fans will lose.
We always do.
"Its a BIG club and you Ain't in it." George Carlin
Some of reason for having charters is being able to get some type of return on having a race team. Most of the time in the past when race teams shut down, they were just selling off equipment and property, sometimes for pennies of a dollar.
Big business gets involved in anything it ruins it .
Dale made an important point about newer owners being more sophisticated than in the past.
If they want to keep the charter system going and I want to attract a fourth manufacturer they need to raise the starting positions back to 43 or even 44 and have 40 charters. That would allow the fourth manufacturer to have enough teams guaranteed and allow teams to enter part time cars.
They've already pretty much got a fourth manufacturer interested AKA Honda
Interested and signing on the dotted line are two completely different things.
"RIP OFF ROB" sold them the fantasy dream !!
If you let greed run the direction of NASCAR in the future, then yes it's the fans that will lose out. And ultimately NASCAR.
The charters are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it
And someone is willing to pay several million for.
Yes , but that not to say someone will always pay 40 million dollars for a business and that's not counting cars , haulers , equipment etc that is loosing money
I think a lot of the value is in the kinds of sponsor relations that an owner or team is able to create. Some of the most successful race car drivers and teams have been the ones who can create a loyal following. The fans buy the products or at least buy into the marketing, and become part of something that they want to be part of. The owners, teams, and drivers that do the best job of blending on track performance, with off track personality, are the ones who succeed no matter how many championships they have. It is critical for NASCAR to continue to offer opportunities and benefits to sponsors of multiple levels of purchasing power to get involved in the sport. This is what fueled the growth in the 1990’s-2010’s. Brian France trying to turn NASCAR into a mirror image of the NFL is what almost killed NASCAR. Learn a lesson, and do what you do already, just a little bit better everyday.
JUST AINT WHAT IT USED TO BE 😢
Liked and watching
The fans will not lose. As the whole nascar system cuts its own throat the fans will go to grassroots races and ignore nascar.
Many already have !
No prep drag racing and drag and drive. Found something more interesting to watch.
Already have.
I like Elvis in Ray's background!
NASCAR exists first and foremost for the benefit of the France family. Secondly the France family will probably never concede to negotiating directly with any entity representing the teams that even smells like it could be remotely related to a union type of organization. Everything else is a tertiary consideration. The best thing for the sport would be for the France family to cash in and then get out.
NASCAR has to figure out a way to get 50 to 60 cars back at Daytona. Make the 125's mean something. I know they added points but still. And a min of 40 cars.
Want to be a pro driver/ owner
Step1: be born rich
Step:2 be willing to die poor.
This is RACING, right? Get rid of the charters, if you are confident enough to show up at a race track do it. NASCAR, buy all the charters back and get back to qualify to get in. I get it. It takes a lot of money to get these guys there. If you are fast enough on Saturday, you start Sunday. If not, back to the drawing board. That is RACING!
Charters is all about the money
As an outsider and having participated in different forms of motorsport in different countries, I see the cost of a charter as one of two things. Its a cost to participate and has to be recovered from prize money and sponsorships just like the cost of the car, technicians and drivers. Or its seen as a privileged position that can be traded and thats bad.
This is where a governing body should come in and in every other form of road based motorsport, the governing body is the FIM or FIA and they are the rules makers and they have no commercial connection to the money side of the teams. So they can make decisions based on the good of the sport, the safety, the drivers and the fans.
Not so with Nascar. It always was about Nascar making money from races and teams. I see that as a basic conflict of interest. There always has to be an opportunity to race on an equal footing against big teams. You can't have a closed club of three or four multi team owners and they and Nascar taking all the goodies at the expense of everyone else, otherwise new entrants will be discouraged and the sport will die. Only an independent, non commercial governing body can make sure the opportunities continue to be available without shelling out $40m just to race. Some of the greatest innovators and skilled engineers in Nascar came from being engine builders, mechanics and drivers who were also fabricators. The likes of Yates etc would never have been discovered if it was like it is now but back when they were starting out. Its the Childress, Roush, Hendrick cabal that have hijacted the sport to serve themselves and their co-conspirators at Nascar.
When they started charters and stopped going to some short tracks they killed the little guy.
It needs to go back to the days of build a car and go. It was way more enjoyable for the fans back then and there were more asses in the grand stands at that time.
Pretty soon the sponsors will just own the teams
Charters are worth $40M....but teams don't make any money?
Something ain't adding up.
the money left with winston cup
Greed hasn’t helped.
I don’t think that you can talk about MLB or NFL as a comparison because in all other leagues the league is the owners, or at the very least the leagues work for the owners.
I'm sick and damn tired of people trying to make racing "like other sports". That can't be done without ruining it!
As in anything now a days it's all about greed
The big money in the 90s ruined it.
The days of someone building a legal car to try making the show are gone. It takes millions of dollars in equipment to build a car to pass inspection.
The stars were mostly an everyman into the early 00s, then we started getting drivers who got their ride because daddy could sponsor the car.
Hendrick was one of the leaders in the early spending of cubic dollars, I can't say I feel bad that they lose money racing.
It’s would be nice to talk to Shaq on what he did to get where he’s at now. The things he invested in and maybe that would work in nascar. A different outlook on things.
They should have stopped messing with it years ago.guys had just enough money for tires and it was better
What goes up must come down and these charters are no deferent. Who would have thought 20 years ago that in 2014 a New York City taxi license would cost a million dollars. Now one can be had for less than half that amount. Same with NBA franchises who's values are in a decline.
Can’t you make your company public and let the fans buy shares of your race company. Then borrow against your company to get a charter supported by your fans
The facts are that without the teams,there is no NASCAR and the heads of NASCAR are greedy
NASCAR will own the cars. Rich kid wants to race, brings sponsor and pays NAPCAR for slot to race and issues them a car. That’s the future.
I'm on my last leg with Nascar the fact that I have to pay to watch on all the different platforms I'm over it last year I only got to watch a few races so same thing this year I'm going to be done with it and it upsets me
The teams want more money but want to give up nothing in return. Where's the creativity in that.
JR, you need to be the new director of competition of NASCAR.
I don't think he want such a f****** job
Guilt recognition in Powhatan class navy ships tugboat
Your dad knows pulls. Your living spirit never dies.
They are only going to go up and value it’ll be just like an NBA or a football team one day
I need a 409 block
They fucked up when they tried making it about the car instead of the driver and the car combo
My hot take is charters should be a thing but team sizs should be limited. I don't make a baseball team then demand to play the Yankees.
Imagine Elliot not qualifying for a race, and instead Henry McGuire makes it instead, everyone loses. This almost happened to Dale Jr. and was the start of charter discussions.
Teams shouldn't have 4 drivers the Maximum should be 2 maybe 3.
Before the charters there became the top 35 and owners points locked in
Don't let Nascar (Frances) ruin racing more than they did in the past. TIME FOR A CHANGE.
The owners did it to themselves. They wined about the start and parks coming in and beating them out in qualifying, and now they are handcuffed by this crappy charter system.
Start and parks do take some bit of skill. It was a good gig while it lasted.
Wasn't the top of the standings locked in? Only the low end of the car teams had to challenge to qualify for a race
@@buckman840Prior to the charter system the top 35 in owners points were guaranteed starting spots in a race while the remaining spots went to the highest qualifiers, then a past champion provisional. It was that way for many years prior to the charter system and now we have 36 chartered teams guaranteed spots and we only start 40 now instead of the traditional 43.
@@buckman840back in 2001 was no such thing as teams being locked in even on owners points
@@johnhaas2523 understand that but also had many more cars showing up even prior to start and parks. Ton of money in the sport at that time.
I've got an Impala I need a windshield other than that the motor is good everything else is good let's do one
It seems anytime big corporations or private equity and V C companies get involved in absolutely anything, the loser is always the fans or consumers.
Looks like Ray is tiptoeing around what he feels.
Everything NA$CAR does, can be done by hiring a "commissioner" that works for the teams. If a new guy wants to race, he can buy an expansion team from the current team owners. NASCAR has proven to me that all they really care about is their bottom line. The league should be owned by the teams and teams should be the real stakeholders. If you started over in 2024, you wouldn't let an outside entity have the most power, especially not power that makes a $40M investment disappear on the whim of some guys named France. On the other hand, just building a car and going big time racing, isn't a viable way for a big time sport to operate.
Why would NASCAR hire a commissioner when it's a privately owned family business
You asked the wrong question. Why do the teams need NASCAR? That is the question. In the 50's NASCAR was needed to ensure the drivers got paid by the tracks after the race. NASCAR became the promoter instead of the track. They collected the gate and concession sales and had all of the money. Just like football teams don't need a promotor to ensure a stadium pays the players, race teams no longer need a middleman like NASCAR because the real money isn't in the gate or concessions, it is in the TV deal. Everything NASCAR does could be done by a commissioner that is hired and answers to the teams.@@johnhaas2523
Sounds like Championship Auto Racing Teams...
Never run full sprint. 970s
SRX / re UNION iroc series of NASCAR for the percentages seen at Daytona.
Why ratings fall?
Racing is a race only at FULL SEND RUN it Again
Theirs gonna be a split like their was in Indy Car within the next 10 years.
I think it could be sooner than 10 years, the writing has been on the wall since fall 2022.
How about 22 teams max 2 cars?
Dale JR needs backer somebody help with money so that we can focus on racing I still think with fast car Dale JR can win xfinity series
In the NHRA you can get a rulebook and build a car and you have to qualify to make the show unless the field isn't full for your class...I have never seen a Nascar rulebook.....I quit following Nascar when Toyota came in....
43 car fields and if you don't qualify you go home. You shouldn't be guaranteed your spot. This is what's killing the sport from growing, as well as nascar not sharing the TV money.
Nascar right below watching paint dry
Anougher Sunday afternoon nap season has begun yawn 🥱
Where is Mike?
He left at the end of last season...
He's working behind the scenes anymore on the business side only
@@johnhaas2523 Thank God
Unfortunately it’s racing, the more money the teams make, the more money they put back into the team to remain competitive.
Talking about two guys tip toe thru a subject was almost painful to watch Dale Jr claim to have no dog in the fight and Ray business partner Rob Kaufman who help start the charter system, the fans who say they hate the charter can go after those folks NASCAR would been happy to never touch the charter it the team owners who demand it and that why charters not going away.
Yep prices going up while whole time your sport is dying, sounds like a disease to me, a disease called greed
Permanent or not, WHAT THE HELL makes them suddenly worth $40 million?
The demand and value
NASCAR has done everything in their power to be as much like the four major leagues as they can, except one.
MLB, NFL, NHL and NBA have one thing in common that NASCAR doesn't. The league is owned by the teams. The commissioner represents the owners.
NASCAR represents NASCAR and only NASCAR. Permanent charters is barely a small step in the right direction.
But they don’t need to be like other sports…… for gods sake everything that was great was taken away to try and be like other sports…..
@@frankfarms83 Does that change ANYTHING I said?
No matter what you feel about the direction of the sport, none of what I said is untrue.
IF NASCAR is going to have a charter system, they should be permanent.
IF NASCAR wants to go back to 1980, charters will go away, and ALL the teams will go away with them.
Funny thing is you cant even build a car and go anymore lmao
What nascars argument for getting rid of them? The teams have a good reasons. Now they have something of value when they close up shop, in the past it was just the building and the contents.
You can lose a charter if you don't meet the performance requirement in the charter agreement as in like NASCAR doesn't want somebody let's say like BJ McCloud to have a charter and not even try hard
You can still run without a charter can’t you?
You had Gordom on that had a Dr t-Rex car saying hey we were pretty popular back then then looking around going I don't know what happened. You had a driver ride a wall to gain position and went viral then immediately banned it. You can't look at indy car and compare to NASCAR it's like comparing fans of soccer snd football. NASCAR has strangled themselves with regulations leaving races to be decided on extremely small variables that a viewer can't see nor will bring in new viewers. Why is football popular because anything can happen blown coverages that can be explained over tv. Let the teams race, let ingenuity prevail and explain to the viewer.Nascar is vanilla and behinds too much on tv contracts for money and left racing awhile ago.
We don’t want to have issues like F1 and nascar is sounding more and more anti new lower income teams
Arent the charters a piece of paper? If nascar ends them, whomever bought them at $40M will have nothing to show for it?
Basically
Same for nfl, nba or mlb
@lawrencefranck9417 not really. All other sports leagues the owners employs, hires, or fire their commissioner. France family makes all the rules. The charter is supposed to be like a franchise but nascar Corp wants to cancel them all from the sounds of it.
Snooze ya lose
Day to NA 2024
If I had entry I could have Won before stage 3. Why? Percentages I pull the trump. The fast guys would recognize and it would be a war of attrition and attention Paid in weeks prior. 5years running.
Maybe it’s time to spilt ? Well NASCAR anymore is pricing out themselves.
Hopefully.
Split what?
@roymcdre9180 the race teams split away from NASCAR and run their own series.
This is what fiat currency does to a nation.
The charter system is both a blessing and a curse. Charter are the reason why we have all these new owners, as before if you were the set up a race team and it din't work out at the end you had nothing to sell other a few bits of used machinery and some used cars with the charter there is always something of value that can be sold if a race team closes down so that limited people getting involved to simply those with a knowledge of racing. But on the flip side that guaranteed money is enticing owners who are millionaires that would once want to buy major league sports teams but simply can't afford them as the value of them has increased to such a point that even millionaires can't afford them and NASCAR is potentially new rich guy playground and this is in turn creating a self fulfilling prophesy driving the charter price up and pushing out those people who are "pure racers".
Personally I think the charter system is good as it encourages investment but there needs to be changes to system (especially prize money) so it is viable to be an open team again so those that just want to build a car and race can do without having to foot the bill out of their own pocket. Plus if they get a 4th manufacturer it will need major changes and likely have to go back 43-45 cars with 38-40 charters.
With races like Daytona, why watch at all?
Nascar has left its roots , its only gonna get worse folks
Just Saying why your dad never run 7?
sucs
No one wants to hear this but there's only one way to get things back like 'the old days' and before I say it, NO. It will NEVER happen. Let's face it. The thing everyone hates the most is that NASCAR isn't the "Every-man's Sport' it used to be. You'd have to kill off the Cup Series as we know it, make the Xfinity car the top car and streamline the sport down to one Car series, and one Truck series. Like any good business, you'd eliminate a redundancy... Call it Xfinity Cup for all I care. Put a $10 mil. budget cap on all teams to keep costs low, Current Xfinity teams could participate because that's the current spending of top teams in the series. You'd have 60-70 cars theoretically (probably more like 55 in reality).
The problem is convincing TV Networks, sponsor partners etc. that it would work and convincing Cup owners that down-scaling their entire operation is good for them in the long run. The whole sport would have to be willing to not be greedy and be willing to downsize in a BIG WAY, and as we all know once you open Pandora's box, there's NO turning back. Or you can do what I do. Pay very vague attention to NASCAR because that's all it's worth to me as a fan who wants that old school feel to the racing, and WATCH CARS TOUR ON FLO RACING... Because that's NASCAR about 25-30 years ago!
Clown
nascar became mainly a commodity sport years ago..TOO big for it's britches. I don't support nascar anymore. I quit that along time ago.
34 trillion debt America affords what?
Decommisions I commission P.S.
Powhatan American States
Naacar is same as everything just greedy people
Atlanta racing is good because car is running within power with drafting.
At Daytona its opposites in racing quality. No draft the lead car cant pull a lead leads to stagnation sxs racing with a draft
The Little Guy can’t compete anymore like they could even 20 years ago! Nascar gas priced its way out of mainstream sports! Fans are not showing up on a regular basis!
Charters are stupid, the dumbass final 4 race is stupid, anyone who is bad at Phoenix can never win a title. The new car has a aero push so bad it makes passing too hard at most tracks and now they're talking about running v6 turbo charged hybrids so Honda can get in the sport. I guess their new fan targets are foreigners, must think they're gonna go international like F1. Oh yeah, let's add more damn road courses.
Buy part of a charter. Minority owner
What Dale said was correct. You had your chance to buy in for a couple million and didn’t, now its $40 Million. Worst financial decision of your Career. Unfortunately you can’t turn back time. In 30 years a charter could be worth $500 million or billions.