How to Hide Property Transfers from Public Record (Use of Deeds)
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 10. 07. 2024
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In this video I want to talk about the use of deeds, and put a little different spin on it that you may not be aware of on how you can go about deeding your property without anybody knowing.
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Clint Coons, Esq. is one of the founding partners of Anderson Law Group, Clint has grown his legal and tax firm to over 400 employees by assisting real estate investors with creating and implementing solid entity structuring plans. His success in these regards is in large part due to his personal investing experience. A successful attorney, real estate investor, and speaker, Clint has used his innovative and dynamic strategies coupled with knowledge borne from experience to help thousands of people save millions of dollars and build real wealth.
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#TransferProperty
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As a privacy-minded investor that owns many rental properties and crypto you are rapidly becoming my favorite CZcamsr. Thank you for putting so much info out for free
Thanks
Can I have one of your properties? I can wave my assassin fees if there is someone, or some people you don't like... Just kidding lol... or am I?
The information you give is so well appreciated! Thanks for being so open and honest on how to do things. Where the rest of us can protect our assets too!
I appreciate that!
Thanks for sharing. This makes it easier for someone to know what to expect and saves time too!
Yes, we gave you a thumbs up too! We like videos like this so we don't have to ask so many question.
We can just what it again.
Glad it was helpful!
I can't stop watching all your videos It's so helpful for me. Thank you
Thanks for watching.
These videos are fantastic -- keep 'em coming!! Thanks!
Thanks, will do!
Clint, just saw this presentation. It was a piece broken off of the first one that I commented on. Going to look into a few more. Thanks again for the info.
Clint, this is good stuff you tell us. Thank you. Please keep in posting. BIG fan of yours.
Thanks, will do!
We appreciate Clint Coons for sharing valuable, useful and practical expertise! Many thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Clint, thank you so much for the incredible amount of great information!
Glad it was helpful!
You are a beassssssttttttt at providing simplicity and clarity been a subscriber for years Cooons!!!!
Promisethetruth Channel
Thanks for watching and being a subscriber.
Clint, you're an excellent attorney. Great advice !!!!!
Glad you think so!
YOU GIVE THE BEST ADVICE! Thank you
Happy to help!
It's good to know that I have one of the best lawyers in the world. I should get "You'll be hearing from my lawyer" tattooed on my back.
Another great video Clint.
Thanks Julian. đ
Very good information. Some of these things I've never heard before. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
So much good info just from watching a video!
Glad it was helpful!
Great information! Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow this was great!!! Thanks for video đïž
No problem đ
you the man Clint thanks for sharing
You bet
Great info Clint!!!
Glad it was helpful!
love you brotherâđœ
Great info! Thanks!
You bet!
Wow... great to know sir. Thank you
Most welcome
Excellent as usual
RS Enterprises
Thanks for watching.
Mannnn, Fuzzy Dice LMAO! Great Video appreciate this.
Mister MG
Thanks for watching.
Another Awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
awesome.thanks
Great information thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you!!!! Gold.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching Mr. Blue. :)
Hi Clint, I have found your videos invaluable and have employed some of your RE strategies. I have come across one unexpected issue (more than once) as I strive to maintain anonymity and asset protection. When setting up a WY LLC (holding company to provide the anonymity discussed and charging order protection) which then in turn owns LLCâs formed in the state where the property is purchased the issue is when a lender records a mortgage. We lose the anonymity we have strived so hard to maintain. The mortgage docs require the owner of the LLC to sign the loan with their full legal name not the LLC name therefore revealing the name of the owner. While this might be difficult info to find for some it does become public record and if someone knows where to look it can easily disclose true ownership. When buying properties for cash without financing the above was not an issue. Once financing for a purchase or cash out refi comes into play the mortgage being recorded becomes an issue from an anonymity standpoint. Is there any way around this? Thx
You simply put it in a Landtrust first and then assign beneficial interest to the LLC.
Putting aside the additional cost of preparing and maintaining the trust the real issue is that many lenders will not lend to a land trust.
@@arthuraaron1427 But if it's anonymity you want with a property incummbered by debt as a Mortgage, then the best strategy is to put into a Landtrust and then assign it in the state specific LLC and have it owned by a Wyoming Holding LLC. I'm sure you can still refi showing proof of full ownership with operators agreement.
I would like to see what Clint's response would be. I wondered the same thing.
@@rcruz401 Dont quote me on this but adding to above comment. It is also recommended to file 1065 tax form page 2 instead of the schedule E, in correlation to cash out-refi
great explanation of deed use
Glad you liked it
Had no idea this was the case! Wow! Learning a crazy amount from an asset protection standpoint. Wish I found Clint about 5 years ago and before I setup my most recent entity formation
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Great info đ
Glad it was helpful!
Interesting. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Brilliant ideas
thanks
Great video
Thanks!
I've had you guys assist me with putting a property into a landtrust before assigning beneficial interest into my LLC. The question I have is, if that process gets recorded or is it what you call a pocket deed ? I also had you guys do the deed prep as well.
The assignment is not recorded. You set it up the right way.
Thank you.
You advice has always been very nice. Again, thank you.
Gold!!
In Illinois - I heard it from ALL attorneys I ever talked to - the date of transfer is the date of recording, for the purpose of "fraudulent transaction" determination. For example, my friend no longer owns a property (plus new owner didn't record the deed), and the new owner just recently called her saying "legally you still own this property, because I cannot remove the liens even if I show a notarized proof of transfer/deed from 5 years ago"
Incorrect. I hat to say it but you should find better counsel. This is law 101. You can look at (765 ILCS 5/) Illinois Conveyances Act - here is a link: www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2137&ChapterID=62
Here is the important text:
"Every deed in substance in the form described in this Section, when otherwise duly executed, shall be deemed and held a good and sufficient conveyance, release and quit claim to the grantee, his heirs and assigns, in fee of all the then existing legal or equitable rights of the grantor, in the premises therein described, but shall not extend to after acquired title unless words are added expressing such intention"
You will note the act does not include any language regarding recording to make a transfer.
I heard from Illinois attorneys if quit claim deed is not recorded the deed is not valid during appointment of estate guardianship
Thatâs a great video Clint, once you deed your property to LLC how do you get the loan out of your name is that even possible?
Not possible.
How about simply using quick claim deeds?
Hi Clint,
Can you use a pocket deed when you still have a mortgage on the property?
yes
I had a LLC set up by the bank but I still pay for the property tax n association fee and what Iâve learn if you had a house under LLC you cannot reside in this place. It should be rental
My understanding is when changing to an LLC, for the purpose of asset protection, you must be sure to also change the homeownerâs insurance to the LLC name. A notice will be sent from the Insurance company to the Mortgage company Notifying them of the change. This may trigger the due on sale clause. Is this correct, and is this a concern? Thanks for your great content!
Have you watched my video on insurance - czcams.com/video/jNsRw0j6zms/video.html
You could always name the LLC as an additional insured. Also did you catch my recent video on the "due on sale clause" - czcams.com/video/p8yzjkSQoAo/video.html
so the date on the pocket deed affirmed by the notary is enough to show that there is has been a new owner from that date
Clint, big fan!!!... have an existing rental that I want to put into a new LLC to get out my personal name and out public records...I can easily do that in the court house records, but my address will still be the same on public records unless I buy a new post office box or something...any ideas on that?... thanks in advance...
Yes that is correct. When we set up these structures for out clients we provide an address and mail forwarding to protect their anonymity.
Where are you located at please
Are you in state of NJ by any chance?
Couldn't you have the property in an LLC name & then just transfer the LLC itself to someone you're looking to sell to?
Wouldn't this avoid County sales taxes & keep the owner name secret etc too?
Hi Clint,
I was watching one of your videos where you talked about the 'Due on Sale' clause. Would this trigger it? I am thinking no since it is not reorded.
This is for a loan not with Fannie or Freddie.
No it will not
Clint - Amazing videos + content;
Question - I am buying a property that is in an LLC - can I simply buy the LLC (change ownership of the LLC that currently owns the LLC), rather than setting up my own LLC and doing a deed transfer?
Risky because you do not know if the LLC has any outstanding IRS claims or other legal issues. If you do it make sure you have a rock solid indemnification from the seller and you are working with an attorney.
@@ClintCoons What is the alternative? Have the seller's LLC assign beneficial interest to buyer's new LLC? Thanks
@@terrycrawford6740 Buy the property outright from the LLC so it is a clean title transfer on public record.
6:10 Prior to all this, (step 1) the husband and wife initially transfer title to the Land Trust. Then, (step 2) an Assignment of Beneficial Interest form gets filled out by the Trust beneficiary to transfer to the LLC. Is there a form needed accepting the transfer for either step 1 or step 2?
Yes typically one is completed
Clint, after my LLC records the deed, do I have to immediately look for a tenant to live in the house or at least move-out. The creditor's argument could be that this property is for your personal residency and not business-related.
If the property is not a rental then the LLC lacks a business purpose and the creditor can move the court to ignore the entity form. I would not place my personal residence in an LLC because it could weaken my other LLCs that hold my rentals with the argument being I set up LLCs for asset protection and they lack any business purpose.
Are transfers of llc interest in the public record in Washington DC? Or how to find out if ownership interests of a LLC is in the public record?
It is not.
This info is worth thousands alone and you gave it out for free.
Thanks
@@ClintCoons look forward to you and Pace Morby. I literally binge watch both of you.
@@Nickcooperrei thanks
Saying that I deed my property to a LLC for the intent and purpose you described, and nothing happened to me. When it comes to sell the property, is there a way to avoid the recording and not to pay the transfer taxes since we didn't do it at the first place?
You prepare another deed from the LLC - deeding it back to yourself.
@@ClintCoons do you need to record this one and pay transfer taxes?
This wonât trigger the due on sale clause on the mortgage? When it gets recorded ?
It would depend on your mortgage but most are underwritten by Freddie/Fannie guidelines and transfers to LLC or trusts are permitted.
@@ClintCoons whatâs the best way or where can I find a pocket dead contract so I can draft one up ?
@@ClintCoonsso to write one up, is it the same as a quitclaim deed?
@@brainiacvp I prefer to use a warranty deed
Great content as always. few questions
1). Is pocket deed valid in all states?
2). supposing I purchase properties in my name (for loan purposes) and for asset protection, I want to move them into my LLC via Land Trust. can I use this strategy to deed (quit-claim) properties into my land trusts but do not record them? because down the line I may need to refinance, sell or make use of my title insurance that I originally purchased, etc.
3). when pocket deeds are recorded upon grantor's death, does it create a cloud on title, because of the gap in the deed signed date and the record date?
1. Yes
2. You could but why use a land trust if you are not recording the deed?
3. Not that I am aware of.
@@ClintCoons thanks for the response.
#2 I know I won't get anonymity if it is not recorded. One land trust per property with WY LLC as lifetime beneficiary for asset protection. don't want to create 1 LLC per property because of CA franchise tax
@@gokullu Why dont you use a WST rather than a land trust.
@@ClintCoons Will read about WST
does this work if someone has properties in LLC and created a living trust and do not record it because he or she wants asset protection under LLC?
What did you not record?
All those transfers and selling to entities sound good as long as you don't have a mortgage, the lender could find out and call the loan because of due on sale clause, is that correct?
Freddie and Fannie permit transfers to LLCs after the loan closes. Their guidelines changed in 2018.
Is there capital gains or transfer tax when deeding a property you own to your single member llc?
No there is not.
đ„đ„
Could this be used to avoid the due on sale clause if you buy a home with subject to financing?
The bank would not know about the transfer.
@@ClintCoons to clarify, in using this method they would not know? Or do you mean when using subject to financing the bank would not know and this is not necessary to avoid the due on sale clause?
@@AberrantArt The bank would not know but since it is a transfer it could violate the due on sale. It really depends on who holds your loan. Have you watched my due on sale clause video?
@@ClintCoons I have but I will re watch it again. Thank you for the amazing content. I'm new to your channel and have a lot to catch up on.
Clint can people who have itin numbers own a home. If somone gifts it to them with a quit claim deed would there be any consequences legally and finacially on the person's taxes.
No. Anyone can own a home. The recipient of a gift is not responsible for taxes on the gift.
@@ClintCoons Now letâs say that the recipient of the gift does want to pay those taxes instead of the person giving it. Would they need a different type of deed then?
can this strategy be used for a living trust?
No because of the nature of a living trust.
Seems like getting a notary to record the pocket transfer might be good to avoid the fraud claim later when you make the legal county record/transfer after the lawsuit.
Remember the recording is not the transfer it is the signing of the deed. Yes a fraud claim might be made but if the deed was signed before the lawsuit and the LLC accepted the property you have a strong defense.
Lol fuzzy dice aka lower Rider Inc
Could this be used to protect against foreclosure ?
How so? If it is against the property the answer is no.
If someone has a Pocket Deed, can he (as the Grantee of the deed) reassign his/her interest to another party before the deed gets recorded? Will the first Grantee's name show up in the Chain Of Title?
Sure but you seriously risk clouding title if the deeds are not recorded in the property order.
Why is the recording fee 10k? Of course this amount varies widely per state but 10k seems a little extreme?
I was referring to Pennsylvania and it is a transfer tax that is paid when property is recorded into an LLC.
What happens when a surveyor fails to do a deed search before the sale of a property and includes a portion of land that you hold the deed to in the buyers title. Now buyer is suing for ownership of the land that you still have the deed to because the surveyor put the discription on the buyers title. The buyer never recorded a deed for the portion of land that i have the deed to and the owner i got the deed from says the disputed land was never supposed be placed on the buyers title. Because the surveyor assumed that the deed holder included the disputed land in the sale without ever doing a deed search does that stand as legal? Does the deed holder have precedence over the title holder
I would assume the deed holder only receives what is on the deed. If there was a mistake then the title company is responsible to the buyer to make up the difference.
Is a pocket deed the same as a quitclaim deed?
It could be. A pocket deed is an unrecorded deed.
What do you do if you want to sell it, if you havenât recorded the property?
Deed it back to yourself and sell it in your own name. The deed back to yourself will not be recorded because you would be listed as the current owner but you must prepare the second deed to prove intent.
What's your main channel? I thought this was it.
Real Estate Asset Protection
Ok? So who pays the taxes? It must have been recorded at some point... is there a contract in place to pay the taxes through the recorded owner? Looking for the anonymity??? Thanks again
You wont have anonymity with this strategy and I would pay the taxes from the LLC. You should also update the tax records to reflect the LLC as the party who receives the tax statements.
@@ClintCoons
Isn't the person on record the one to be able to make the request of the tax bill go to someone other? Yes I'm thinking about the anonymity... I just went through having my asset protection trust take title and the bill sent to an LLC. Thx again
@@donwbacik1009 You stay on title to the property. This is not an anonymity strategy. This is a strategy to move a property into an LLC without anyone knowing.
@@ClintCoons it was quit Claim deeded over to the trust from me is what happened but in the example you're saying the LLC would make the rightful request to send the bill to the LLC or whomever is still on record, correct? My anonymity is in effect now?
@@donwbacik1009 That works and it is how you should do it. This is a common mistake made by investors - they forget about the property tax statement.
Can you do that if your in foreclosure ?
No it will not work in that situation.
Don't you still have to give corporate notice? (i.e. tell the current and potential tenants).
You would want your tenants paying the LLC.
Do you offer SpendThrift irrevocable trust?
We do not.
563 Thumbs up from people that don't want to get sued. 1 Thumbs down from the person who already got sued for not setting these up properly to begin with.
take action an do what
Are you running the risk of the property being incumbered by
a judgement by the person on title if is not transferred
Yes you do but in some states like PA you either pay $$$ or run the risk. Great point.
Why not open a revocable living trust in the beneficiary name? Deed goes to the Trust/beneficiary/trustee, thus avoiding probate and additional fees?
You would need the living trust to avoid probate. Yes I agree the living trust is an excellent tool
My mom unknowingly inherited some land and the mineral rights.but never changed the deed into her name so we now can't locate the deed what can we do
You may need to reopen the probate to transfer the title.
I have a few questions for you to answer from your experience and expertise for the following:
1. If you own a paid off property, but you didnât pay your taxes for 1-2years, and transferred the property deed title to someone you knew or close to you. He/she took care of the property taxes and whatever the interest and fees the city and county fines when the new owner sell the property, can you still get some money back?
2. As soon as the property deed title was transferred, does the grantee has his/her rights to put this property for a refinance right away?
3. Because this property was paid off and there was no balance owed at the bank or anywhere with anyone except the city and county taxes with the interest and fees. If you donât get anything back from it, can you sue the grantee in court with the money from selling the property?
I would appreciate if you could give me some advice or knowledge. Thank you!
You can set something up like you describe by recording a lien against the property for your interest.
I own a rental property in palm beach gardens and it is under name. I created a LLC. Can I do Quit claim Deed ?
Thank you
Do not use a QCD use a warranty deed.
I contacted the title company , and they told me I have to get a lawyer.
I donât have any mortgage on this property and bought it with cash . Do I actually need a lawyer
Thank you
What about if the LLC is yours ? and does it protect the property your personal from bankruptcy by pocket deeding to your own llc?
It does not protect you from BK. What do you mean by if the LLC is yours?
@@ClintCoons if you do a quit claim deed and file with the records office on a property that you personally own that is paid in full to an LLC that you own/a Member of. Would the property/asset then be protected if filing personal bankruptcy?
And thank you so much for even responding đŻ
@@ClintCoons more context....I'm trying not to lose my properties that I have paid in full if I have to personally file bankruptcy. And I have a business/LLC. 2 of the properties are in my personal name and 1 in my LLC currently. And I will more than likely have to file personal bankruptcy due to the overwhelming cost associated with my divorce that I can't repay. Trying to find the best way to transfer/ protect the properties. Been looking at ALL your videos. Please help
@@sadeb3409 Yes this a situation that is way outside of my lane. The BK trustee will take possession of all your LLC interests so it is not a viable option. The best way to avoid it would be to try and work out a repayment or Chapter 13.
How do I make sure the property has been recorded? How do I check it?
County recorder.
Does California charge a transfer tax?
Not if it falls within an exemption.
And a transfer into a (Land) Trust is one that does, correct?
QUESTION. Iâm in Chicago. I have my own personal residence but Can I put my 3 unit rental in a land trust make my sister the trustee? (She lives there )And make an LLC to make my LLC The beneficiary? the building isnât making any income because itâs family living there and they break even on the total bill on that property. đ€ maybe if i increase the rent $10 more a month?? Maybe? đ€đ€
Yes you can. This would be an Illinois land trust with an IL or WY LLC beneficiary.
@@ClintCoons would I still qualify for tax benefits like depreciation and other tax write offs? Even though their is no profit on the rent income?
@@ahsinsmith3963 Yes if the property is an investment property. The depreciation will result in a loss on your Schedule E.
Great information but he left out the option of recording in a different county or different state.
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Also, when you record the property deed, you are now allowing the County to tax your property & if you ever fail to pay said property taxes then the County can then take your property away from you. This is why you must acquire your allodial deed. Be aware States will claim such deeds do not exist, but they do. I've known of a number of people who have acquired their allodial deeds. Be aware municipalities will try to give you "Fee Simple" Deeds an/or deeds excluding your rights to minerals ("mineral rights"). Do not accept those types of deeds. Educate yourselves & consider a real estate attorney who knows.
so, say there are 3 brothers to ailing parents. Brother 1 convinces the parent to do a pocket deed giving brother 1 their home in order to keep brothers 2 & 3 from inheriting anything even though the parents have a will splitting their estate equally among the brothers. Brother 1 did this by convincing parents that this pocket deed is for the parents benefit to keep "people from taking advantage if them" in the event one of them dies. Parents trust Brother 1 and assume he is doing the right thing. Once they realize he has fooled them, they ask for the original and he refuses. Is there a way to nullify this?
You would need an attorney to bring an action to assert undue influence and lack of capacity when the deed was signed. These type of cases suck.
@@ClintCoons Thanks! They consulted a lawyer this week. Yes, it sucks!
Is it possible to record the fact that there is a deed to the property, but not who owns the deed
Not that I am aware of.
Can you explain the tax ramifications. Clearly the LLC would have to pay taxes on rental income. Wouldn't the IRS know who the owner of the LLC is?
Yes when the income hits your tax return. The LLC does not pay tax but if flows thru to the members.
Can evil doers then identify the actual owners through the tax return? @@ClintCoons
Getting a strategy meeting at 10:15 tomorrow
Perfect
How are you going to sell asset protection services anymore, now that people know this is legitimate?
Moral of the story, pay the 10k now instead of wishy washing hoping that you donât miss a judgment against you. Pay now or pay later and pay dearly. Iâm the Zen and you welcome.
So when that deed is not recorded, then how does the inheritor Prove mid ownership ? If the deed was never recorded and the house was been sold does that mean that the middleman is never recorded ever Iâm finding a slew of foreclosures that appear to be bought at an auction, but then the original owners name is the person who supposedly purchased it. We all know thatâs not true how do I find truly purchased it so I can find out who they sold it to an owners name reflect on a house before it was truly back from that sake of the house is purchasing December 2018 then why would it reflect being purchased in 2015 by the individual ??
The first person to record the deed is typically the owner. If you have an unrecorded deed, then I would suggest you record it to establish ownership.
can u pls give me a example how how a revocable living trust deed should look like example trustor name A and trustee B? with legal descriptions xyz
You would be the grantor and the trust is the grantee e.g., John Doe Trustee of the Doe Living Trust Dated March 1, 2010. Your living trust will state how you take title under your trust.